================================================== DATE: 11/19/01 SUBJECT: November 16, 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal* Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer John Figueroa Applied Simulation Technology [Raj Raghuram], Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti (Chen Hongyu) Cadence Design [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek, Lynne Green*, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund, Wes Martin, Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel* Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel, Matthew Flora, Steve Kaufer Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs, Wei-hsing Huang LSI Logic Larry Barnes Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid, Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar, Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad, Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim, Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet, Daisaku Shiga, Kenji Kushima, Ian Dodd* Micron Technology Randy Wolff, Yong Phan, Tim Wells, Bob Cox* Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley Motorola (Rick Kingen) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya) North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski, Gerald Bannert, Burkhard Muller, Christian Marot, Manfred Maurer, Amir Motamedi, Hans Pichlmaier Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz Sigrity Raj Raghuram, Winson Yu SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss, Chris Brewster Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) John Berrie, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001: Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Acuson Kim Helliwell AMCC Jeff Smith ASIS Ltd David Wright Brocade Communications Robert Badal BMW Friedrich Hasinger Cereva Networks Bob Haller Compaq [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam, Bill Ham EADS Airbus Industry Claude Huet (Aerospatiale) EFM Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines EIA Cecilia Fleming* Ericsson Radio Systems Anders Ekholm FCI Sercu Stefaan Foundary Networks Bertram Chan Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion Fraunhofer Institute Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek Reliability and Integration Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang Idaho State University Al Davis Infineon Technologies Christian Sporrer Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin KAW/USA Shinichi Maeda National Institute of Applied Etienne Sicard Science (INSA) Nokia Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren, Janne Uusitalo North Carolina State U. Paul Franzon Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell Oak Technology Darmin Jin Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres Sun Adrian Udenze Toshiba Corp. Hirokaza Kato, Yuichi Koga, Toshio Sudo Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode December 7, 2001 1-877-299-1938 None 6467862 1-617-801-9666 (International Dial-In) January 11, 2002 1-916-356-2663 2 8295945 (International Dial-in the same) All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new members. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Stephen Peters reported that our membership is unchanged from the 34 members reported last month. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The October 26, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved with this change: Micron Technologies was corrected to Micron Technology in the Introduction. The ARs were discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Stephen Peters reported that Compaq's roster page listing will be updated with new contact information. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Roy Leventhal reported that the IBIS Models page has been updated as of November 11, 2001. Roy asked if commercial IBIS model creation companies could be added to the roster. Bob Ross replied that we do not list commercial model making services, however EDA companies can mention their model creation services in the tag line of their companies listings. Bob Ross reported these new, changed or reorganized links: Actel Semiconductor: http://www.actel.com/custsup/models/ibis.html Aeroflex UTMC (search IBIS for download links): http://www.utmc.com/ Fairchild Semiconductor: Analog and Mixed Signal IBIS Models: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/IBIS/Analog_and_Mixed_Signal/index.html Interface and Logic IBIS Models: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/IBIS/Interface_and_Logic/index.html Interface Models: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/products/interface/models.html Hitachi, I-Cube and International Microelectronics (sold to Cypress) model links are gone. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - JEITA ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Stephen Peters reported that representatives from JEITA are planning on attending the IBIS summit in January. They wish to learn more about IBIS future activity, especially IBIS-X activity. JEITA representatives are also planning on making presentation at the summit on EDA activities in Japan. - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters reported that the latest documents have been released and exist under these links for IEC processing (the links split into several lines to prevent mailer truncation): http://www.ute-fr.com/domino2/SiteWeb.nsf/ 8a5473dcadaa1e984125690500321bfc/ fa7c022ff4ce65b4c1256ad1004bf436?OpenDocument http://www.ute-fr.com/domino2/SiteWeb.nsf/ 8a5473dcadaa1e984125690500321bfc/ cdfd39bc801a98dbc1256ad1005599b3?OpenDocument The information was passed on to the IBIS reflector for any comments. Stephen and Bob Ross expect to provide feedback on these documents. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report. - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report. S2IBIS3 MEETING REPORT Stephen Peters reported on a meeting with Drs. Paul Franzon and Michael Steer from North Carolina State University (NCSU) on November 2, 2001 at Intel. Bob Ross, Tom Dagostino, Stephen Peters and Lynne Green attended. This meeting was in response to a request for a follow up to the presentation given by Paul at the September IBIS Users Group Meeting. Paul presented more detail on their S2IBIS3 development and how it fits into their NEOCAD simulation environment development. FUTURE SUMMIT MEETINGS PLANS - DesignCon2002 Stephen Peters reported on the plans for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled on Monday, January 28, 2002 associated with DesignCon 2002 in Santa Clara, California. Plans are set and initial notices about the meeting will be issued in early December 2001. Stephen reminded those that are planning on attending to make your travel reservations as soon as possible. Stephen also did a quick count of the officers who will attending. Guy de Burgh stated that Innoveda is still planning to provide the IBIS booth. Bob Ross stated that Milt Schwartz is handling the arrangements and National Semiconductor is sponsoring the lunch. - Date2002 Bob Ross reported that plans are underway for a European IBIS Summit Meeting on Friday, March 8, 2002 associated with DATE2002 in Paris France. Guy de Burgh reported that Innoveda has agreed to join Mentor Graphics and Zuken in co-sponsoring the event. More co-sponsors are requested. As before, there will probably be a strong emphasis on EMC/EMI issues. - JEDEC 2002 Stephen Peters asked the group if there was any more ideas regarding attending the September 2002 JEDEC meeting in Vancouver BC. The JEDEC meeting days overlap with the IBIS Users Group meeting and IBIS Summit in September 2002. Bob Ross noted that, based on past history, arranging and hosting a summit costs a minimum of $1,300, so this needs to be taken into consideration if both meetings are to be turned into official IBIS Summits. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Bob Ross reported that a Series MOSFET component from Texas Instruments has been distributed for review. MAJORDOMO UPDATE John Angulo reported that text messages are now being archived in the email.digest archive. Stephen thanked John and Steve Grout who provides computer support for EIA for their work. Bob Ross went on to state that the e-mail archive directory structure allows the email archive to be separated into half yearly archives. Bob then asked for guidance on adding a tag on the subject line of IBIS reflector traffic, much like is done for the si-list reflector. Stephen Peters also suggested automatically appending unsubscribe information at the bottom. After discussion John and Bob agreed to work on these projects. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REPORT Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held on October 30, November 6, and 13, 2001. The next one is scheduled on November 20, 2001. The connector committee has finished a technical review of the specification. A few more technical changes have been made in order to simplify and clarify the specification, including dropping an automatic pin map generation function. An editorial review still remains to be done. Stephen also mentioned that Gus Panella of the connector committee is arranging meetings with connector users in order to obtain feedback. We are still on track to have the specification ready for Open Forum review in the first quarter of 2002. IBIS FUTURES REPORT Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held on November 1 and 15, 2001. The next meeting is scheduled for November 29. More work has been done on the macro language specification, and we have resolved many issues with the primitive elements. Stephen will work offline with Lynne Green to get chapter 6 drafted and into the IBIS-ML specification. Stephen indicated that the committee will focus next on describing IBIS 3.2 and the proposed IBIS 4.0 birds in the macro language. BIRD73.3 - FALL BACK SUBMODEL Bob Ross issued BIRD73.3 with some revisions as suggested at the October 26, 2001 IBIS Meeting. These consisted of clarifying what "low" and "high" means in the Bus Hold and Fall Back sections and to editorially revise the Bus Hold paragraph concerning the ambiguous situation when the tests for initial bus hold submodel settings are either not met or both met. In further reviewing BIRD73.3, Bob discovered another minor editorial error and the fact that the Fall Back DRIVER FALLING CYCLE table had a functional error caused indirectly by editorial cutting and pasting. The error needs to be corrected. Bob plans to issue BIRD73.4 with the corrections. He also suggested that BIRD73.4 be put on the agenda to be voted on at the next meeting. This forces the issue of closing it out. However, Bob stated that BIRD73.4 is complicated, and it would be a reasonable resolution to defer the vote if there still existed any technical concerns or questions. Stephen Peters agreed that this was a reasonable way to proceed. AR - Bob Ross issue BIRD73.4 with the discussed corrections two weeks prior to the next meeting for a formal vote. IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS Bob Ross reported that ibischk3.2.8 is ready for distribution to the organizations holding the source code license. The distribution would have already been done before the meeting, but we had some e-mail problems. Bob has not seen the final version, so he cannot yet comment on whether the code included fixes for BUG55 and BUG59, as previously discussed. Guy de Burgh plans to generate Unix executables on several platforms, and Lynne Green will generate Linux executables. Bob also asked that if any finds problems with ibischk3.2.8, let him know. If there are any serious issues, we can "recall" the source code distribution and not upload any executables. - BUG62 - Not All Non-Monotonic Points Reported Bob Ross re-introduced BUG62, reported by Tracy Sopchak and issued through Lynne Green. This bus was discussed at the last teleconference, but we ran out of time before deciding on the desired disposition. In brief, there is a debate regarding the desirability of reporting multiple non-monotonic points in a non-monotonic waveform. Bob is in favor of only reporting the first non-monotonic point, thus forcing the user to examine the waveform. Lynne Green suggested that instead of multiple warning messages the parser could issue one warning message then list the number of non-monotonic points. Bob argued that BUG62 was really minor and probably not worth fixing. The issue is that each BUG fix does costs time and money, and may risk breaking something. This is a case that the user has been warned and should look at the whole table further. After further discussion, the group agreed to accept the resolution of "WILL NOT FIX" to close out BUG62. BUG62 classification is changed to ANNOYING, LOW and WILL NOT FIX. - BUG63 - Some BUG47 Reported Waveform Percentages Wrong Bob Ross introduced BUG63. The BUG47 improvement, which gives a more descriptive report for various cases of V-T table waveform mismatch, does have a few cases where the reported percentages are wrong and could be very misleading. The actual "Error" vs "Warning" distinction remains correct, but incorrectly calculated percentages such as 176.8% for a real 2.3% mismatch can cause some wasteful searching to try to resolve this. So while this is an annoyance, it is a problem that needs to be fixed. BUG63 was classified as ANNOYING, MEDIUM, and OPEN and with the action item that it will be fixed in the next release of ibischk3. XML FOR IBIS Bob Ross reported that he has not yet received some sanitized IBIS to XML formatted models from Atul Agarwal, therefore he has not yet uploaded any related material. NEW TECHNICAL ISSUES Stephen Peters noted that in a recent ibis-users reflector discussion (Subject: "Input model with Pullup-/Pulldown-Reference"), an issue was raised with input models. In brief, the IBIS specification states that if the [voltage Range] keyword is not used, then all four of the other voltage reference keywords (Pullup, Pulldown, Power Clamp and GND Clamp) must be present. However, input models do not contain pullup or pulldown structures, so the [Pullup Reference] and [Pulldown Reference] keywords are not applicable. Arpad Muranyi mentioned a particular ECL input modeling case where the [Power Clamp] and [GND Clamp] keywords may have to be used. However, Stephen pointed out that the specification allows [Voltage Range] to be used with [GND Clamp], so the specification is not forcing the user into including the pullup and pulldown reference keywords when they are not needed. Bob Ross then pointed out that an input model with a bus-hold submodel may need to use [Pullup Reference] or [Pulldown Reference] so that disallowing these keywords in an input model cannot be prohibited. After further discussion the group agreed that the specification did not need to be changed or clarified. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, December 7, 2001 from 8:00 A.M. to 10:00 AM Pacific time. Bird 73.4 is scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799 roy_leventhal@3com.com Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary) 1800 W. Central Rd. Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Innoveda 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.