DATE: 5/13/02 SUBJECT: May 10, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui Avanti (Hailong Wang) Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Lance Wang* Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation (Brian Arsenault) Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Huawei Technologies (Rachild Chen) IBM Greg Edlund*, Pravin Patel Innoveda John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh* Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd, Mike Donnelly, Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad Micron Technology Randy Wolff* Mitsubishi (Tom Cao) Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Rick Kingen National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya) North East Systems Associates (Edward Sayre) Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz, Walter Katz, Robert Moles, Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher, Steve Coe, Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock, Sigrity Raj Raghuram SiQual Scott McMorrow, Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, (Jean-Claude Perrin) Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) (Michael Schraeder) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002: Actel Prabhu Mohan Apt Software Atul Agarwal Brocade Communications Robert Badal Compaq Shafier-ur-Rahman EIA [Cecilia Fleming], (Chris Denham) Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola) Science (INSA) Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. Tsuyoshi Horigome TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long Independent Larry Barnes, Roy Leventhal In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode May 31, 2002 1-888-316-5901 N/A 3778497 (International Dial-In 1-617-801-9781) June 13, 2002 IBIS Summit Meeting in New Orleans, Louisiana No teleconference connection All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Bob Ross stated that he is conducting the meeting since Stephen Peters is on vacation through Wednesday, May 15, 2002. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported that we still have 26 paid members, and Stephen Peters is following up on several other companies who we expect will join. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The minutes from the April 19, 2002 teleconference were approved without change. The ARs were discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross reported that Cecilia Fleming has left EIA, and Chris Denham (the GEIA group Vice President) is now handling our committee. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq will update the Upcoming Events page. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported IBIS models on these locations: Intel Xeon Model http://www.intel.com/design/Xeon/devtools/ Ramtron IBIS Memory Model http://www.ramtron.com/products/datasheets.htm Winbond Electronics Corporation http://www.winbond.com.tw/e-winbondhtm/partner/b_2_g_1_a.htm OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross - Future IBIS Meetings (Also, Bob Ross - IBIS Summit Index under Administrative Issues) INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross reported that he sent some comments on the Cookbook and Report document. Stephen Peters still needs to do a review. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report. - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report. DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE 2002 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING Bob Ross reported that the IBIS Summit Meeting at the Design Automation Conference (DAC2002) will be held on Thursday, June 13, 2002 at the Hilton Hotel in New Orleans, next to the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center where DAC2002 is held. The IBIS meeting is planned all day. This is the annual meeting which includes elections of IBIS officers for the 2002-2003 term. Bob stated that because of some logistics problems, we may have to schedule the meeting at another nearby hotel. Guy de Burgh is handling the registration and has sent out a second call for signup and presentations notice to the reflectors. The EIA IBIS Open Forum funds this meeting from dues payments and is providing a hot lunch for attendees. Bob noted that we typically get 25 to 30 people attending this summit meeting. Bob estimates that approximately 13 so far based on people who have indicated that they are planning to attend. So we appear to be on track for the expected signup. The program will include: - Administrative Business - Election of Officers 2002-2003 - Any other necessary business - IBIS 4.0 Discussions Nominations are welcome for any position, and those choices will be announced at the next meeting. Elections will be conducted starting from the Chair, Vice-Chair, Secretary, and other positions one at a time. So an individual not elected may have a chance at another position. Arpad Muranyi asked for a positions description. Bob noted that the official descriptions noted in the charter consist of only a few items: These are listed below, thanks to Guy: Position Responsibilities ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chairperson Oversee all forum activities, preside at all general meetings. Finance authority. This person must be an employee of a Membership Company. Vice Chair Cover for chair and secretary in their absence, coordinate all public relations (press releases, media contacts). This person must be an employee of a Membership Company. Secretary Coordinate logistics of all meetings, take and publish meeting minutes within 10 days of meeting. This person does not need to be an employee of a Membership Company. Librarian Maintain the library of public IBIS models, including verifying authenticity and compliance before posting. This person does not need to be an employee of Membership Company. Webmaster Maintains the contents of the official EIA IBIS Open Forum Web site and Roster files under www.eia.org either directly or through contact with EIA staff. This person does not need to be an employee of a Membership Company. Postmaster Maintains the e-mail distribution lists and performs file server sysop activities for the reflector and on-line files on the IBIS site: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/. This person does not need to be an employee of a Membership Company. In addition, Bob explained that the Chairperson usually works out the division of specific tasks with the officers including those technically covered by another position according the interest and availability of the person. Also, the officers have to deal with unplanned issues and problems such as private communications related to collecting membership payments. John Angulo described the Postmaster task as having evolved to Majordomo membership list management and forwarding legitimate mail by non-member addresses to the IBIS reflectors. The program so far is tentative (titles can change), but includes: "IBIS Annual Report", Stephen Peters, Intel "IBIS Quality Checklist", Barry Katz, SiSoft "IBIS Models Today, Their Parameters and Their Accuracy, Eckhard Lenski, Siemens "Use of IBIS in Digital Consumer Electronics", Atsuji Ito, Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. (Panasonic) "Semiconductor Modeling", Roy Leventhal, Independent "Multi-Lingual Modeling Applications", Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics "IBIS Connector Specification", Stephen Peters, Intel Arpad mentioned that he might have presentations related to differential driver modeling and/or C_comp issues. We are open for a few more topics. Guy de Burgh will send out another notice next week. FUTURE SUMMIT MEETINGS (New Agenda Item) Bob Ross reported that the PCB East Conference has moved from mid September to October 14-18 in Boxborough, Massachusetts in the Boxborough Holiday Inn where the first IBIS User's Group and one IBIS Summit Meeting was held. North East Systems Associates (NESA) have offered to host the IBIS Summit meeting on their site on Thursday, October 17, 2002. This should be more convenient, both for attending the PCB Conference East and for attendance by the local community. Also, we still are planning an IBIS Summit meeting in Vancouver, British Columbia on Thursday, September 12, 2002 along with other EIA organization such as the Compact Modeling Council, JEDEC, etc. as a joint EIA meeting. People can attend meetings in other organizations of interest. We no longer need to consider the joint IBIS meeting held simultaneously at two locations. We need to discuss what we want to do. Should we be offering tutorial and educational material at this meeting? This will be a topic for future meetings. IBIS QUALIFICATION COMMITTEE Greg Edlund reported that IBIS qualification group meetings were held April 23, 2002. The next meetings is scheduled for May 14 and 28, 2002. The major activity is working on a detailed spreadsheet quality check list. Bob Ross noted from the last meeting discussion, that the committee might want to give a proposal for making the IBIS Golden Parser code open source. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Bob Ross reported no new models. MAJORDOMO UPDATE John Angulo reported that Majordomo is rejecting some unsolicited spam messages, and he is forwarding appropriate messages to the IBIS reflectors from non-members. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES In response to the request made by Arpad Muranyi at the last meeting regarding locating IBIS Summit archives, Bob Ross reported that the IBIS Summit Meetings now have a descriptive index: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/ This index includes meetings since 1993, URLs of major conferences and organizations we work with and a link to the Upcoming events listing. IBIS VERSION 4.0/BIRD75 DISCUSSION Bob Ross reported that Greg Edlund issued some clarifying text for BIRD70.5 in the [Test Data] keyword for Golden Waveform data. Greg stated that the text clarifies that the reference waveform is from source SPICE waveforms. Bob wanted SPICE replaced with something more generic, and Greg suggested transistor level simulation, since the reference simulation may come from an internal non-SPICE simulator. AR - Greg Edlund will re-issue the writeup with this change [Done]. Bob Ross opened the discussion, concerning IBIS 4.0 and its keywords versus some of the flexibility of pending BIRD75.1 Currently IBIS Version 4.0 has about 14 new keywords and 56 new subparameter and a number of new argument. Plus some of new keywords and subparameters have complicated interactions with others. Bob listed this table: BIRD Number New Keywords New Subparameters ------------------------------------------------------------ 62.6 (Receiver Thresholds) 2 15 64.4 (Alternate Package Models) 2 65.2 (C_comp additions) 4 66 (Model Spec Vref addition) 1 67.1 (V-T tables to 1000 points) 68.1 (Clarify Waveform alignment) 70.5 (Golden Waveforms) 10 25 71 (Model Spec PCI additions) 10 72.3 (PMOS/NMOS Series MOSFET) 73.4 (Fallback subparameter) 1 Several BIRDs and parts of others may be redundant with BIRD75.1. Bob mentioned BIRD73.4, and Arpad Muranyi mentioned BIRD65.2. Lynne Green stated that one approach is better than two. However, it may depend which comes first, IBIS Version 4.0 or BIRD75.1. Bob mentioned that BIRD75.1 is slated for an IBIS Version 4.1 release. We discussed a few details on some of the BIRDs. Bob stated that to undue a BIRD requires revoting on it. We should hold off until BIRD75.1 is officially approved, but we can still consider doing so. We postponed additional detailed review of Version 4.0 until Stephen Peters is available. Bob noted that Stephen or others may need to supply some of the minor editorial clarifications discussed at the previous meetings. Bob can handle adding the other comments, but has not done so. IBIS CONNECTOR & FUTURES GROUP REPORT Bob Ross reported that combined Futures and Connector group meetings were held on April 25 and again on May 2, 2002. The next meeting is scheduled for May 16, 2002. The ICM0993 specification in now available on the IBIS web site under the "Connector Info" link and under: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/connector/ At this point the committee is working on a final technical and editorial edit of the document before making a draft version available to the IBIS Open Forum. An online editing session is scheduled for May 16, 2002. Bob reported that Stephen Peters expects the draft document to be available for discussion at the upcoming June 2002 IBIS Summit meeting. BIRD74 - EMI Parameters Guy de Burgh stated what he intended as upgrades to BIRD74 based on comments from previous meetings and private correspondence: (1) Power dissipation capacitance (Cpd) is usually given for clock buffers, but not always for I/O buffers for memory controllers. Guy is investigating proposals from Pravin Patel (IBM) and the recent presentation in March 2002 from Katja Koller (Siemens). (2) Clock drivers may have different clock outputs. Each output group, or domain, may consume a different percentage of the total power. Therefore a parameter representing the percentage of power each domain uses has been suggested. (3) Guy is considering removing the heatsink parameter since it is a physical rather than an electrical parameter. (4) The [Pin EMI] keyword may be more appropriately positioned in the connector document. Guy would have preferred all the EMI data to be in one file, rather than be spread around. (5) The return path can be more clearly identified in the case of the connector parameters by introducing a "power" parameter. This means that the return path for this pin is through the "power" rather than "grounded" (or "connected to chassis") path. More clearly identifing the return path will allow more accurate radiation estimation. (6) Bond wire inductance should also be included. This will enable the effect of radiation from bond wires to be calculated. It may need to be on a pin by pin basis as the bond wires lengths are not the same. Either length and average diameter, or inductance are possible choices for parameters. This parameter could be part of the Die Height parameter. (7) The Family specification needs more clarification. Guy plans to issue BIRD74.1 with improvements in these areas. BIRD75.1 - Multi-Lingual Modeling IBIS Modeling Support Bob Ross issued BIRD75.1 with some editorial updates and corrections. Some changes were in response to IBIS Futures Committee discussions. Bob mentioned that "Spice" was changed to "SPICE" and the registrations method recommended by the IBIS Futures Committee was documented (with the alternative in the Analysis section). Arpad Muranyi had a few technical questions for future discussion including whether both [External Model] and [External Circuit] were needed, and if [Node Declarations] is needed. John Angulo suggested that Cell_port be changed to Die_Nodes. John also understood that the scope of BIRD75.1 was for the die itself and did not include package models. Thus the "pin" name really referred to die side of the package model. After this discussion, Bob suggested that more technical discussion and questions occur on the IBIS reflectors and at possibly at the Connector and Futures Committee meetings. Such technical and syntactical concerns will also be discussed at the next meeting. IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS Bob Ross repeated the previous report that Atul Agarwal plans to work on nine BUGs and provide ibischk3.2.9 by mid May 2002. - BUG68 False Messages with Repeated Voltages Bob Ross reported that BUG68 regarding false Error and Warning messages cause by very close voltage values had been classified. However, we did decide how to resolve BUG68. Arpad Muranyi stated that the internal tool that caused the bad test case had been fixed. Bob suggested not fixing BUG68 since it might require a lot a work for a rare problem. Besides, some incorrect Error and Warning messages still signify a problem. Arpad suggested that Michael Mirmak, author of BUG68, check to see the numerical sensitivity of false messages before deciding to close out BUG68. - BUG69 Error in EBD Path with Power Pin Bob Ross reported on BUG69, submitted by Mathew Flora, that ibischk3 issues an Error message when signal nets and power nets involving signal and ground pin interfaces are connected in the same net. This not specificly prohibited in IBIS Version 3.2. BUG69 was classified as MODERATE, LOW, and OPEN since this involved a specification violation. Bob suggested that the Error message be changed to a Warning message in case some EDA tools have problems with handling such nets. - BUG70 [Model Selector] Fails for [Series Pin Mapping] Models Bob Ross stated that Moshiul Haque of Texas Instruments reported that ibischk3 fails when [Model Selector] is used for [Series Pin Mapping] models. This usage is clearly allowed in the specification. BUG70 was classified as MODERATE, MEDIUM, and OPEN since ibischk3 reported an error for an allowed syntax, and this will be fixed. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting will be a teleconference meeting, planned for May 31, 2002 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal crleventhal@attbi.com Independent, formerly Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary) 1800 W. Central Rd. Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Innoveda 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================