DATE: 6/04/02 SUBJECT: May 31, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell* Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) IBM Greg Edlund, Pravin Patel Innoveda John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh*, Steve Gascoigne Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis, Michael Mirmak* LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik* Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd*, Mike Donnelly, Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, Tom Dagostino, Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet Micron Technology Randy Wolff Mitsubishi (Tom Cao) Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Rick Kingen National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya) North East Systems Associates (Edward Sayre) Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz*, Walter Katz, Robert Moles, Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher, Steve Coe, Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock, Sigrity Raj Raghuram SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002: 3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn Actel Prabhu Mohan Agilent Herbert Lage Airbus Claude Huet Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto Apt Software Atul Agarwal Astrium Olivier Prieur Avanti (Hailong Wang) Brocade Communications Robert Badal Compaq Shafier-ur-Rahman EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin EFM Ekkehard Miersch EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham* EMC Corporation (Brian Arsenault) Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Force Computers Roger Sukiennik Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler Systems Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong) Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal* Communication Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola), Etienne Sicard, Science (INSA) Stephane Baffreau Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. Tsuyoshi Horigome Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro Thales Saverio Lerose Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick) Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long Independent Larry Barnes In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode June 13, 2002 IBIS Summit Meeting in New Orleans, Louisiana No teleconference connection All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Roy Leventhal has his own consulting business -- Leventhal Design and Communications. His new contact information is listed at the end. Chris Denham, who is serving as the EIAs representative to the IBIS committee, phoned in for the first time. Chris indicated that he will also be attending the June summit. Kim Helliwell from Apple Computer introduced himself. Kim is serving on the IBIS quality committee and is interested in helping the industry produce quality IBIS models. Michael Mirmak from Intel Corp. phoned in to participate in the BUG68 discussion. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Stephen Peters reported that we have 28 paid members, up from 26 last month. Stephen and Bob Ross are following up on several other companies who we expect will join. In the mean time, these companies have been moved to the "other Participants" list. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The minutes from the May 10, 2002 teleconference were approved without change. The ARs were discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq has updated the Upcoming Events page with the additional EIA Alliance Meeting and also updated the Roster Page. Barry Katz of SiSoft generated a press release announcing the formation of the IBIS Quality Committee. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Roy Leventhal reported that a few web links need to be updated; he will be doing this over the next couple of weeks. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross reported that he sent some comments on the Cookbook and Report document. Stephen Peters still needs to do a review. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report. - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No Report. DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE 2002 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING Bob Ross reported that the IBIS Summit Meeting at the Design Automation Conference (DAC2002) will be held on Thursday, June 13, 2002 at the Hilton Hotel in New Orleans, next to the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center where DAC2002 is held. The IBIS meeting is planned all day. This is the annual meeting which includes elections of IBIS officers for the 2002-2003 term. Guy de Burgh is handling the registration and has sent out a two more calls for signup and presentations notices to the reflectors. The EIA IBIS Open Forum funds this meeting from dues payments and is providing a hot lunch for attendees. Bob noted that we typically get 25 to 30 people attending this summit meeting. Bob estimates that approximately 17 so far based on people who have indicated that they are planning to attend. Bob reported some updated titles: "IBIS Annual Report", Stephen Peters, Intel Corporation "IBIS Quality Checklist", Barry Katz, SiSoft "IBIS Models Today, Their Parameters and Their Accuracy, Eckhard Lenski, Siemens "Multi-Lingual Modeling Applications", Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics "Connector Modeling Experience", Atsuji Ito, Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. (Panasonic) "IBIS Connector Specification", Stephen Peters, Intel Corp. "Buffer Impedance and Quality Issues", Luca Giacotto, Alstom Transport Several other presentations are pending. The Agenda will be sent next week by June 6, 2002. Stephen Peters reported that all officers, except Bob Ross, listed at the end are candidates for their existing positions. Lynne Green is a candidate for the Vice-Chair position. Another member is also considering a nomination to the vice-chair position. Other nominations and candidates are welcome. Notify Stephen Peters or Guy de Burgh of your interest or nomination. Nominations will also be accepted at the meeting. Notify Guy de Burgh to record a vote if you cannot attend the meeting. FUTURE IBIS SUMMIT MEETINGS Stephen Peters reported that we are planning two meetings. We may have to decide what to do in each. The meeting details are as follows: As previously reported, the PCB East Conference has moved from mid September to October 14-18 in Boxborough, Massachusetts in the Boxborough Holiday Inn where the first IBIS User's Group and one IBIS Summit Meeting were held. North East Systems Associates (NESA) have offered to host the IBIS Summit meeting on their site on Thursday, October 17, 2002. This should be more convenient, both for attending the PCB Conference East and for attendance by the local community. Also, we still are planning an IBIS Summit meeting in Vancouver, British Columbia on Thursday, September 12, 2002 along with other EIA groups such as the Compact Modeling Council, JEDEC, etc. as a joint EIA meeting. People can attend meetings in other organizations of interest. We no longer need to consider the joint IBIS meeting held simultaneously at two locations. Bob Ross mentioned that funding details for the Vancouver British Columbia meeting still need to be worked out. Both John Angulo and Lynne Green indicated that they are planning on attending the Vancouver meeting. Bob mentioned that we may want to present an IBIS tutorial to interested groups. IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE Barry Katz reported that meetings were held on May 14 and 28, 2002. The committee is going through the various parts of the IBIS data set (I-V and V-T tables), compiling a checklist as well as a written document. Barry hope to have the checklist and document completed in time for the PCB East IBIS summit. The next quality committee meeting will be held June 18, 2002. IBIS OPEN SOURCE PARSER PROPOSAL DISCUSSION Kim Helliwell summarized the advantages and disadvantages of using an open source model for IBIS golden parser development and maintenance. In brief, with open source there are more pairs of eyes to look at code. Open source makes it possible to fix bugs in a more timely manner, and having many developers also potentially enables new OS ports. A drawback to using an open source model is the risk of someone creating a rival parser, but this risk is minimized by having the IBIS committee in control of the official IBIS spec. Kim noted that while the gatekeeper position involves more time than he had first estimated, the effort can be spread among several different individuals. On the GNU Public License (GPL) issue, Kim noted that the IBIS committee can still sell unrestricted licenses that will allow EDA companies to incorporate the parser source code into their commercial products. In a response to a question from Bob Ross, Barry Katz indicated that the latest proposal document will be uploaded to IBIS quality committee web site: http://www.sisoft.com/ibis-quality/docs/ Bob Ross again mentioned his concern that by making the IBIS parser source code open interested companies may not be willing to directly fund parser development, thus undercutting the current funding mechanism. Stephen Peters concurred, and he also reiterated his belief that the gatekeeper(s) must be committed to a stable and long term relationship with the IBIS Open Forum. Finally, Bob noted that the IBIS committee does not have the resources to verify that all companies are in compliance with a Gnu Public License (GPL). Lynne Green asked if adopting an open source model means that we would move from bug fixes only updates (dot releases) to releasing new versions of the parser every time a bird was passed. No consensus was reached, and further discussion on this and the licensing question will continue at the June summit. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Bob Ross reported no new models. MAJORDOMO UPDATE John Angulo reported no new activity. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES None. IBIS VERSION 4.0/BIRD75 DISCUSSION Stephen Peters opened the discussion by recapping some of what was discussed at the previous meeting. In order to address the issue of what impact BIRD75 may have on EDA vendors willingness to implement the currently passed BIRDS, Arpad Muranyi proposed preparing a list of potential BIRDS that may be superseded by BIRD75. (Note: this list has been posted to the IBIS reflector for discussion). Bob Ross remarked that we cannot re-ballot or remove any of the previously accepted BIRDS until BIRD75 is finalized. Stephen Peters noted also that voting for an IBIS 4.0 version then removing functionality in a subsequent IBIS 4.1 could very well leave "orphan models", as well as EDA tool vendors with useless development code. However, Lynne Green pointed out that implementing both 4.0 and then BIRD 75 could delay tool implementation. This evolved into a long discussion on what the impact of various scenarios may have the on EDA tool vendors. Stephen is leaning towards passing IBIS 4.0 as is, then addressing BIRD75 as a high priority. We agreed to continue this discussion at the June summit. IBIS CONNECTOR & FUTURES GROUP REPORT Stephen Peters reported that combined Futures and Connector group meetings were held on May 16 and again on May 23, 2002. The next meeting is scheduled for June 6, 2002. Stephen stated that the ICM0994 specification in now available on the IBIS web site under the "Connector Info" link and under: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/connector/ Stephen also noted that the IBIS codification of the Touchstone(r) data format has received final approval from Agilent. Version 1.1 of the Touchstone data format specification is also available on the IBIS web site under the "Connector Info" link mentioned above. The committee is working on a final technical and editorial edit of the document before making a draft version available to the IBIS Open Forum. Editing sessions continue, and Stephen expects the draft document to be available for discussion at the upcoming June 2002 IBIS Summit meeting. BIRD74 - EMI Parameters Guy de Burgh was unable to send out an updated BIRD 74.1 due to e-mail problems. Discussion of BIRD74 was postponed. BIRD75.1 - Multi-Lingual Modeling IBIS Modeling Support Bob Ross reported that Arpad Muranyi provided a list of valuable comments on BIRD75.1. He already received a response on the IBIS reflector from Chris Reid. Bob plans to respond and continue the discussion on the IBIS reflectors rather than take up too much time for detailed technical discussions. However, Bob did comment that [External Model] and [External Circuit] had more differences than noted by Arpad that justified using separate keywords. The new differences include: [External Model] is always positioned under [Model], whereas [External Circuit] is a general circuit. [External Model] inherits the Model_name pf [Model] whereas [External Circuit] has a name for an argument. [External Model] is used with predefined signals to retain compatible functionality with [Model] in IBIS, whereas [External Circuit] does not need any predefined signal names. The A_D and D_A extensions are just a and extension of this for [External Model]. Bob noted that more technical discussion will be conducted on the IBIS reflector. IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS Bob Ross reported that Atul Agarwal has addressed BUG57-67. Atul had some question on BUG57 and BUG63, and the rest have been fixed. We are awaiting the final ibischk3.2.9 software. - BUG68 False Messages with Repeated Voltages Bob Ross reported that BUG68 regarding false Error and Warning messages cause by very close voltage values had been classified. However, we did decide how to resolve BUG68. Arpad Muranyi stated that the internal tool that caused the bad test case had been fixed. Bob suggested not fixing BUG68 since it might require a lot a work for a rare problem. Besides, some incorrect Error and Warning messages still signify a problem. Arpad suggested that Michael Mirmak, author of BUG68, check to see the numerical sensitivity of false messages before deciding to close out BUG68. Bob noted that Michael Mirmak did further checking and has determined that voltage differences less than 1e-5 are detected as equal voltages. This was discussed further. We believe that this might be hard coded in the ibischk3 parser. If so, we probably want to set a tighter limit (e.g. 1e-6 or less). We might also want to check the algorithm to try to fix some ungraceful and irrelevant warnings and errors if the limit is set. We need to investigate further the difficulty and scope of the work before committing to when this will be fixed. So BUG68 is resolved to be fixed at the next release with details of the fix to be determined after investigation. We will decide a new hardcoded limit if such a hard coded limit exists. We will investigate the algorithm to determine if some irrelevant warnings and errors can be removed. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting will be a face to face IBIS summit on June 13 in New Orleans. No teleconference is planned. The next teleconference meeting will be June 28, 2002 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398 roy.leventhal@ieee.org Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications 1924 North Burke Drive Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Innoveda 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================