DATE: 08/12/02 SUBJECT: August 9, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong) IBM Greg Edlund, Pravin Patel Innoveda (Merged with Mentor John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh*, Steve Gascoigne Graphics) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis, Michael Mirmak LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd*, Mike Donnelly, Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, Tom Dagostino, Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet Micron Technology Randy Wolff Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Rick Kingen National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya) North East Systems Associates (Edward Sayre) Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Eckhard Lenski Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz*, Walter Katz, Robert Moles, Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher, Steve Coe, Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock, Bob Haller* Sigrity Raj Raghuram SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin Teraspeed (Scott McMorrow) Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002: 3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn Actel Prabhu Mohan Agilent Herbert Lage Airbus Claude Huet Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto Apt Software Atul Agarwal Astrium Olivier Prieur Bee Technologies Corporation Tsuyoshi Horigome Brocade Communications Robert Badal Compaq Shafier-ur-Rahman EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin EFM Ekkehard Miersch EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham* EMC Corporation (Brian Arsenault) Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Force Computers Roger Sukiennik Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler Systems Japan Electronics and Kiyomi Daishido Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal* Communication National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola), Etienne Sicard, Science (INSA) Stephane Baffreau Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. [Tsuyoshi Horigome] Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres Synopsys (Avanti) (Hailong Wang) TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro Thales Saverio Lerose Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick) UTMC Greg Haynes Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long Independent Larry Barnes In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode August 30, 2002 1-888-316-5901 N/A 5136500 (International Dial-In: 1-617-801-9781) All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Stephen Peters was on vacation. Bob Ross conducted the meeting on Lynne Green's request due to a sore throat. Bob noted that we had a quorum based on five participants. (Bob Haller called in for the first time from Signal Integrity Software - SiSoft.) MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Lynne Green reported that we are steady at 31 paid members. Several memberships or reconciliations of paid memberships are still pending with EIA records. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The minutes of the July 19, 2002 meeting were approved without change. The ARs were discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Per EIA legal guidelines Bob Ross made a call for any companies to disclose any patents or pending patents that may bear upon the IBIS version 4.0 standard. This is to avoid future (legal) issues concerning patented features within a standard. Chris Denham commented that the patent must be declared and made publicly available before the standard is issued. Bob commented that we had received such notification once before in the past. This call for patent disclosure will become a standard part of every meeting. No companies declared a patent. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq updated the Specs and Roster pages. He also updated the Support link and replaced the Version 4.0 WIP front page link with the Quality Checklist WIP link. As Roy Leventhal noted, we need to clean up the Roster. Syed will issue a message for updates to the reflector. Non-member participants who do not respond may have their listing removed. Some listings have already been updated or removed. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Roy Leventhal reported no changes or updates. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Lynne Green noted that the IBIS futures and connector working group report will be discussed during the technical portion of the meeting. (This was left off the Agenda by mistake.) (Also, during the administrative portion of the meeting, Bob Ross discussed early planning for the next IBIS Summit Meeting on October 17, 2002.) INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters needs to review the some comments on the Cookbook and Report document. IBIS VERSION 4.0 ACTIVITIES Lynne Green reported that she is working on the Request for Quote for the IBIS Version 4.0 parser. Any commercial entity can provide a bid. Bids will be evaluated on price, delivery, company performance, and other relevant criteria. As Bob Ross previously reported, Version 4.0 documents have been uploaded, but the 00readme.txt still needs to describe the changes. IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE Barry Katz reported that the IBIS Quality committee met on July 30, 2002. A list of keywords and a definition of "Level 0" quality has been developed. Level 0 contains things that can be checked by a parser, and checks for compliance with the IBIS standard but not correctness of the data. The goal is to present this at the PCB East IBIS Summit meeting. The next meeting is scheduled August 13, and every two weeks thereafter. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Bob Ross reported that he has distributed a model from Texas Instruments to the IBIS Review Committee. Lynne Green will take over the pre-screening and distribution of models. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES John Angulo reported normal Majordomo activity. PCB CONFERENCE EAST IBIS SUMMIT MEETING (New agenda item) Bob Ross reported that Stephen Peters, Lynne Green and he need to do some preliminary planning for the PCB East IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled on Thursday, October 17, 2002, hosted by North East Systems Associates (NESA). The date may need to be shifted since the PCB East Conference has shifted the exhibit dates to Wednesday and Thursday. AR: Lynne, Bob and Stephen contact the PCB East Committee concerning trade show dates to set the IBIS Summit Meeting date and issue an announcement. BIRD74.1 - EMI Parameters Guy de Burgh reported no update. Bob Ross indicated that he and Guy may work on BIRD74.1 next week in preparation for the next meeting. BIRD75.2 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support BIRD77.1 - Differential Subparameter Additions Bob Ross reported that BIRD77.1 was issued with some improvements suggested at the July 19, 2002 meeting for a diagram and examples. Bob also commented that he has become aware of several private comments. Arpad just completed a thorough review and provided a nineteen point list for Bob's preview. Most of the remaining discussion here addressed these comments with the idea to clarify (and possibly resolve some) before issuing them to the IBIS reflector. As as result of the technical nature of the comments, Bob and others expected the vote to be deferred. In one comment, Arpad questioned if the .LIB statement was supported. Ian Dodd thought it did not exist in Berkeley 3F4 SPICE. The .INCLUDE statement is the normal way to add process variations in models. Bob state that the Corner mechanism would be suitable for the .INCLUDE method. Some commercial SPICE versions have .LIB, so the issue is still open on this concern. Arpad suggested [External Model] be moved up to the same level as [Model]. Bob stated that this make sense on one hand, but might be hard to document within the IBIS document since [Model] for backwards compatibility and that it might require repeating some common writeups. Roy Leventhal asked about using HTML and hot links for common writeups. Ian Dodd and others noted that it makes the document hard to read off line. Roy will ask EIA whether hot links are used and are acceptable. Bob commented that Lynne Green had asked at the previous meeting whether more corners than Typ, Min, Max could be supported. Bob's response at that time was to build extra models to fill in different Min and Max conditions. Lynne gave a further example - minimum strength PMOS for pullup, maximum strength NMOS for pulldown. Arpad also added that different voltage and temperature effects could be modeled. An N-sigma set of models could be issued. Arpad suggested scaling parameters as a possible solution. Arpad also asked about passing in parameters to the model - such as temperature. Lynne added that support for arbitrary parameters would be useful. After some discussion, Roy noted that no one model can do everything. Bob suggested that he assumed parameter passing would be handled within the constraints of the external language. Parameter passing rules may differ between languages (AMS versus some SPICE), making a common rule hard to specify. Bob cautioned that the issue of parameter passing might be bigger than can be addressed in BIRD75.2. This may be solved within each EDA tool. Arpad questioned in his e-mail whether C_comp was still required. He noted some extended cases where [External Model] may model more advanced C_comp behavioral extensions or differential C_comp. Bob stated that the existing IBIS rules would require C_comp for consistency and simplicity, even if it is overridden. C_comp could be just set to 0. In another comment Arpad stated that a strong note is needed to caution against using SPICE .GLOBAL variables needs to be documented because of unintended interactions with other SPICE models. Bob noted that Al Davis asked for an example we discussed providing an AMS example of an adaptive terminator. Bob wondered if a set of examples was really what was intended. A pseudo-example is used within the BIRD to show some calling syntax. Arpad encouraged everyone to actively participate to provide more input and viewpoints for an active review. AR: Roy Leventhal to contact Chris Denham to see if there is an EIA policy on hot links within a specification document. Bob noted that it might be necessary to have some way to do an "in-line" print. Links to SPICE 3F5 documentation: http://www.eece.ksu.edu/~khc/spice/spice3.html http://bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/Classes/IcBook/SPICE/ http://newton.ex.ac.uk/teaching/CDHW/Electronics2/userguide AR: Bob Ross to make an AMS example available. Arpad will issue the list to the IBIS reflector for further review and discussion. The discussion will continue at the next meeting on BIRD75.2 and BIRD77.1, and a vote will be scheduled. IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT Lynne Green reported that the IBIS futures and connector working group meet on August 1, 2002 for further refinement. The next meeting needs to be scheduled when people are again available. IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS Bob Ross reported that several draft BUG reports have come in for an initial review. Bob Haller stated that he is planning to issue a BUG report concerning non-monotonic Warning messages. He discussed briefly the need to do non-monotonic checking based on the sum of the tables, not just individual tables. He mentioned that about three other pending BUG reports have been divided among Quality Committee members. Lynne Green stated that she also has a pending draft BUG report. Arpad Muranyi added that he also has a test case that may be related to the closed BUG57 causing a false waveform mismatch error. The data conditions are extreme, and Bob Ross is still considering whether this re-opens BUG57 or should be documented as a new BUG. So a total of up to six BUG reports are pending. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on August 30, 2002 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time. Votes on updates to BIRD75.2 and BIRD77.1 are scheduled. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871 lgreen@cadence.com Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems 20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Mentor Graphics 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398 roy.leventhal@ieee.org Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications 1924 North Burke Drive Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. 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