DATE: 09/3/02 SUBJECT: August 30, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong) IBM Greg Edlund, Pravin Patel Innoveda (Merged with Mentor John Angulo, Guy de Burgh*, Steve Gascoigne Graphics) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis, Michael Mirmak LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik* Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd*, Mike Donnelly, Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, Tom Dagostino, Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet Micron Technology Randy Wolff* Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Rick Kingen National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya) North East Systems Associates (Edward Sayre) Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Eckhard Lenski Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz, Walter Katz, Robert Moles, Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher*, Steve Coe, Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock, Bob Haller Sigrity Raj Raghuram SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin Teraspeed (Scott McMorrow) Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002: 3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn Actel Prabhu Mohan Agilent Herbert Lage Airbus Claude Huet Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto Apt Software Atul Agarwal Astrium Olivier Prieur Bee Technologies Corporation Tsuyoshi Horigome Brocade Communications Robert Badal Compaq Shafier-ur-Rahman EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin EFM Ekkehard Miersch EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham EMC Corporation (Brian Arsenault) Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Force Computers Roger Sukiennik Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler Systems Japan Electronics and Kiyomi Daishido Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal Communication National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola) Science (INSA) Etienne Sicard, Stephane Baffreau Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. [Tsuyoshi Horigome] Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres Synopsys (Avanti) (Hailong Wang) TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro Thales Saverio Lerose Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick) UTMC Greg Haynes Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long Independent Larry Barnes In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode September 20, 2002 1-916-356-2663 2 0597966 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Quorum of 5 companies. No new attendees. CALL FOR PATENTS Stephen Peters called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS Version 4.0 Standard. No companies declared a patent. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Stephen Peters reported that we are steady at 31 paid members. Three memberships or reconciliation of paid memberships are still pending with EIA records. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S In the August 9, 2002 minutes, Stephen Peters noted that Bob Haller's name should have been with Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft), not Sigrity. The minutes were approved with this correction. The ARs were discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Stephen Peters noted that National Semiconductor plans to co-sponsor the DesignCon 2003 IBIS Summit Meeting in January 27, 2002 by providing the lunch for participants. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Stephen Peters reported that Syed Huq sent out a request for Roster updates. This is the way we delete obsolete entries. All member companies will have a roster listing whether or not they respond. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Roy Leventhal updated the models link on August 26, 2002. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross asked that the following three bug reports be added to the agenda. BUG73 - Extreme Non-Monotonic I-V Table Fails End-Point Test BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages BUG75 - Successive EBD Checking Crashes Automated Checker INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters needs to review the some comments on the Cookbook and Report document. PCB CONFERENCE EAST IBIS SUMMIT MEETING Stephen Peters reported that the PCB Conference East IBIS Summit Meeting has been rescheduled from Thursday, October 17, 2002 to Tuesday, October 15, 2002 to avoid conflicting with the Exhibitors show. It will held at North East Systems Associates (NESA) in Westford, Massachusetts to be closer to potential attendees. Kathy Breda is handling the local arrangements, and we plan to provide refreshments and lunch to participants. So far Cadence and NESA are co-sponsors. The first Announcement for participation, sponsorship and presentations has been sent out to the reflectors. Of those on-line, no one said they were going to PCB East. Bob Ross is not sure yet. Given the tight travel budget, it was decided that at the meeting will be held via teleconference. Several possible presentation topics were mentioned, including one by Stephen Peters on the ICM specification. Stephen will follow-up with Kathy Breda on presentations and other attendee names. IBIS VERSION 4.0 ACTIVITIES Bob Ross reported that the README file gives the advances in IBIS Version 4.0 over IBIS Version 3.2 http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/ver4.0/ Stephen Peters sent out a request for proposal to the IBIS and SI reflectors and has received nine responses to date. Lynne Green has drafted a requirements document against which the potential developers can bid, and this document has been sent to the bidders. Three bidders have requested ibischk3 source code. Deadline for receiving bids is Monday, September 16, 2002. IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE Lynne Green reported on meetings held August 13, and 27, 2002. Lynne noted that the checklist and meeting minutes have been posted to the IBIS web page under the Quality Committee Work In Progress link: http://www.sisoft.com/ibis-quality/checklist/ Barry Katz will report at PCB East. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Lynne Green reported no new models have been received. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES No new issues reported. BIRD75.3 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support BIRD77.1 - Differential Subparameter Additions Bob Ross opened the discussion by summarizing some of the technical discussion that has occurred on the web, especially in regards to the issue of where [External Model] was placed relative to the standard [Model] keyword, the need for parameter passing, and the distinction between [External Model] and [External Circuit]. [External Model] and [External Circuit] can each contain active or passive circuits, but there is a set of implicit signal interfaces to [External Model]. Finally, Bob noted that he has been communicating with Stephen Peters and Al Davis privately on various issues. Bob mentioned that in response to last meeting's AR he has uploaded an AMS example file to http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/samples/ver4.1/. Regarding Lynne Green's question on providing more than the typ/min/max model corners, Bob replied that he expects model makers to use multiple models, as is done now. Bob also decided not to support calling SPICE .LIB files directly from [External Model]. Discussion then moved to the issue of keeping [External Model] as a keyword under the existing [Model] keyword or moving it to the same level as [Model]. Bob noted that BIRD 75.2 proposes allowing a [Model] to contain both data tables and an [External Model] keyword. Stephen Peters mentioned that this allows compatibility in legacy simulators. Arpad countered that by making [External Model] separate from the current [Model] keyword a much cleaner set of subparameter rules can be defined and used -- we don't have to carry around historical baggage. Further discussion underscored a philosophical difference between those that wish to keep and use the current subparameters rules with [External Model] (it provides consistency) versus those that wish to start with a clean slate. The sense of the group is to leave BIRD75 as is ([External Model] as a keyword under [Model]), but Bob has not made a final decision yet pending any definitive technical arguments one way or the other. On the need for parameter passing, Arpad described an application where an AMS model accepts one parameter that scales equations for typ/min/max or anywhere between. Discussion pointed out that tools could display parameters for user. Ian Dodd posed another example, that of setting buffer strengths. Bob suggested that to further the discussion someone needs to make a concrete proposal for parameter passing. Ian Dodd agreed to write up such a proposal and post it on the reflector. Ian further suggested using the "Generic" statement format from VHDL-AMS in the existing BIRD, including support for enumerated lists and integers. Bob Ross noted this would need to be a specific section of the model in order for the EDA tool to find it, and might need to specify a min/max range. The consensus is that there needs to be a mechanism in [External Model] for parameter passing. However, there was no consensus if this mechanism should be included in the current BIRD75 or deferred to a later BIRD. Further discussion was tabled to the next meeting. Bob Ross will issue BIRD 75.4, and will also talk to Atul Agarwal (the current ibischk3 parser developer) to ascertain if there are any parser implications regarding [External Model] keyword placement. BIRD74.1 - EMI Parameters Bob Ross reported that Guy de Burgh revised BIRD 74.2 into two sections, similar to BIRD 75. However Bob suggests that this should be further revised into one section even though the two sections made sense. This reorganization makes this BIRD easier to read by combining all the EMI parameters in one place rather than having them spread out all over the spec. Guy will revise the BIRD and he and Bob will review it, clean up the syntax, and clarify some of the parameters. Guy reported that there was a paper given at the recent IEEE EMC Symposium in Minneapolis, MN that discusses how the Cpd (power dissipation parameter) is used to estimate DC power bus EMI. The paper is: "Estimating DC Power Bus Noise", by J. Mao, B. Archambeault, J. Drewniak, T.P. Van Doren. IEEE EMC Symposium, 19-23 Aug 2002, Minneapolis MN, pp 1032-1036. IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT Stephen Peters reported that no meetings were held because of vacations. Stephen Peters has contacted Gus Panella to try and arrange a time for the next connector working group meeting. IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS Bob Ross reported that several new BUG reports need to be discussed and classified. - BUG71 - Monotonic Checking for Combined I-V Tables This bug was submitted by Bob Haller. Currently, ibischk3 checks all I-V tables independently. This proposal calls for ibischk to check the I-V tables after have been combined as they would be in normal usage. The quality committee feels that this will allow for a "zero warning, zero error" pass criteria for good models. Bob would like the author to explicitly state what the I-V table combination rules are. It is also not clear if the new checks replace the old ones or if they are simply in addition to the existing I-V table checks. Kevin Fisher agreed to work with Bob Haller to update the BUG report. In the meantime, BUG71 is classified as Enhancement, Low and Open. - BUG72 - Tab Warning Message Promotion This bug was submitted by Lynne Green. Bob Ross noted that sometime between ibischk2 and ibischk3 the Tab warning message was promoted above the line indicating where the checking was occurring, making it difficult to determine which file in a set of files was generating an error. This bug is classified as Annoying, Low and Open, and we will plan to fix it. - BUG73 - Extreme Non-Monotonic I-V Table Fails End-Point Test (New Agenda) - BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages (New Agenda Item) - BUG75 - Successive EBD Checking Crashes Automated Checker Due to a lack of time the above BUG report discussions were deferred to next meeting. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on September 20, 2002 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871 lgreen@cadence.com Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems 20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Mentor Graphics 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398 roy.leventhal@ieee.org Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications 1924 North Burke Drive Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008 jangulo@innoveda.com Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================