DATE: 09/23/02 SUBJECT: September 20, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui Cadence Design Lynne Green, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong) IBM Greg Edlund*, Pravin Patel Innoveda (Merged with Mentor John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh, Steve Gascoigne Graphics) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis, Michael Mirmak* LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik* Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd*, Mike Donnelly, Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, [Tom Dagostino], Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet Micron Technology Randy Wolff* Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Rick Kingen National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya) North East Systems Associates (Edward Sayre) Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Eckhard Lenski Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz, Walter Katz, Robert Moles, Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher, Steve Coe, Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock, Bob Haller Sigrity Raj Raghuram SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin Teraspeed (Scott McMorrow) Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002: 3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn Actel Prabhu Mohan Agilent Herbert Lage Airbus Claude Huet Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto Apt Software Atul Agarwal Astrium Olivier Prieur Bee Technologies Corporation Tsuyoshi Horigome Brocade Communications Robert Badal Compaq Shafier-ur-Rahman EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin EFM Ekkehard Miersch EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham EMC Corporation (Brian Arsenault) Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Force Computers Roger Sukiennik Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler Systems Japan Electronics and Kiyomi Daishido Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal* Communication National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola) Science (INSA) Etienne Sicard, Stephane Baffreau Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. [Tsuyoshi Horigome] Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres Synopsys (Avanti) (Hailong Wang) TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro Thales Saverio Lerose Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick) UTMC Greg Haynes Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long Independent Larry Barnes In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode October 15, 2002 IBIS East Summit TBD All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new attendees. Stephen Peters noted that Vice-chair Lynne Green was on vacation. CALL FOR PATENTS Stephen Peters called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS Version 4.0 Standard. No companies declared a patent. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Stephen Peters reported that we are steady at 31 paid members. Three memberships or reconciliation of paid memberships are still pending with EIA records. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The August 30, 2002 minutes were approved without change. The ARs were discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross reported on Lynne Green's trip to Vancouver B.C. to attend the JEDEC JC-16 committee meeting. Bob reported that there was good interaction with D.C Sessions and JEDEC committee. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Stephen Peters reported that Syed Huq has updated the roster page, purging no longer active companies and adding several new ones. The Upcoming Events link has also been updated with the latest information on the IBIS East Summit, and the FAQ link has been updated as well. Bob Ross reported the article in the September 16, 2002 issue of Electronic Engineering Times: "HDLs put IBIS on Steroids" by Glenn Perry, page 44 covers some pending IBIS activities related to multi-lingual simulation. The article is available at the following URL: http://www.eedesign.com/story/OEG20020912S0062 NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Roy Leventhal reported that he has a link update that he will accomplish in the next two weeks. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters needs to review the some comments on the Cookbook and Report document. PCB CONFERENCE EAST IBIS SUMMIT MEETING Stephen Peters reported that the PCB Conference East IBIS Summit Meeting is scheduled on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 to avoid conflicting with the Exhibitors show (held at Boxborough, Massachusetts). It will held at North East Systems Associates (NESA) in Westford, Massachusetts to be closer to potential attendees. Kathy Breda is handling the local arrangements, and we plan to provide refreshments and lunch to participants. Cadence, NESA, and Intel are co-sponsors. Intel will provide a phone bridge to the meeting - probably from 1 PM 5 PM Eastern Time (10 AM to 2 PM Pacific Time). This is in response to the fact that travel is being restricted in most companies that normally would send participants to the conference and/or to the meeting. Ed Sayre will most likely Chair the meeting. A second call for papers has been posted to the IBIS reflector. Bob Ross reported that the program is under development. So far there are four presentations (titles are tentative): IBIS Checklist - Barry Katz, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft) IBIS versus SPICE - Bob Haller, SiSoft ICM Specification - Stephen Peters, Intel - (teleconference) Measurement Based IBIS Models - Tom Dagostino, Teraspeed Open discussions are possible. Most likely, lunch will be provided before the meeting, and then the meeting will be conducted from 1 PM to 5 PM (Eastern time) based on the contents of the program and presentations submitted. All presentations need to be sent by Thursday, October 10, 2002 so they can be uploaded for remote viewing, and copies can be made for local attendees. Presentations will be available under the IBIS Summits Link or directly under: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/oct02/ IBIS VERSION 4.0 ACTIVITIES Stephen Peters reported that eight bids on the ibischk4 parser project were received by the September 16, 2002 deadline. The IBIS officers and other interested persons meet on September 19, 2002 to review each bid. After careful consideration against the established criteria the number of contending bids was narrowed to the three strongest candidates. Stephen will conduct follow-up interviews with each of the final candidates, and a final decision is expected in the next two weeks. On the question of funding parser development, Stephen noted that we have approximately $21,000 in reserve for parser funding. As the contending bids are all in the $25,000 dollar price range, the IBIS committee will have to raise funds for the remainder. This is in addition to any other funds needed for follow on parser work (pending birds BIRD75 and BIRD77 were not included in the RFQ) and payments owed for bug fixes to the current parser. Stephen suggested a couple of different funding models. One would be to charge a flat $2,084 for the ibischk4 source license. Recognizing the current economic times, we might also consider granting current ibischk3 source code license holders a free upgrade to ibischk4, but then charging new license holders full price. Arpad Muranyi asked how many companies currently own the parser. Bob Ross replied that 17 companies purchased source code licenses, but through various acquisitions and mergers licenses holders have been reduced to 13 independent companies. Also, Bob noted that some companies purchase the parser in order to support IBIS activities, but don't actually use it to produce product. Bob suggested charging current parser license owner a nominal charge for the upgrade to ibischk4, but then charging full price for new licenses. No decision was reached, and further discussion will be required. In the meantime Stephen and Bob will pool current and potential license holders to determine their ability to fund new development and at what level. IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE There was no formal report. Bob Ross notes that the committee met on Sept. 11, 2002. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE Stephen Peters reported that no new models have been received. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES No new issues reported. IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT Stephen Peters reported on a futures group meeting held on September 12, 2002. A final editorial update to the IBIS Interconnect (ICM) Specification was agreed upon, thus paving the way for a draft version 1.0 ICM specification to be posted. Gus Panella (specification author) has completed the final draft of version 1.0, and it has been posted to the IBIS web page under the connector info link: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/connector/ Stephen thanked all those who have been involved in creating the ICM specification. BIRD74.2 - EMI Parameters Guy de Burgh was unable to attend the teleconference, so in his absence Stephen Peters reported that Guy has posted BIRD74.2, an update to the EMI parameters bird. The main change was to put all the EMI parameters into one section. This is referred to as Section 10 in the Bird. The section has entries for [Component] and [Model] keywords. Within each of these keywords there are defined [Begin] and [End] keywords to bound the EMI parameters. This makes both the specification and the model readable. Thanks go to Bob Ross for reviewing and correcting the syntax. Guy asks for comments on the content. BIRD75.4 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support BIRD77.1 - Differential Subparameter Additions In response to comments from last meeting Bob Ross posted BIRD75.4. In addition, Arpad Muranyi has pointed out several more editorial corrections. Bob will work with Aprad to issue a revised BIRD75.5. The major change from BIRD75.3 to BIRD75.4 was the addition of parameter passing (the "parameter" subparameter) to the [External Model] keyword. In a reflector discussion, it was suggested that in addition to the parameter name, this subparameter should include such information as the parameter value, type (integer, floating point number, text string, etc.) and units. However, Bob noted that this would create difficulty when the parameter value is in units that are not supported by IBIS. Indeed, the reflector example included a value in degrees Fahrenheit, which is not supported. Stephen Peters pointed out that while including parameter value and type might be good for documentation purposes, there is the danger of allowing the same parameter to be defined differently in two different places. In a related issue, Arpad Muranyi asked how an encrypted [External Model] would communicate with a user interface, i.e. can model encryption prevent the knowledge or use of these parameters. Bob Ross was also curious about this point, and will research this to see what various tools do. Bob did point out that parameters must be visible to the executing program in some manner, else the parameters in the encrypted section would be useless. In summary, Bob is strongly leaning towards keeping the "parameter" subparameter as originally defined, and not adding the extra information. After discussion, the consensus was to keep the name "parameters", rather than shortening it to "param". Finally, in a follow up to last teleconferences discussion on the relative scope of [External Model], Atul Agarwal replied to Bob Ross that for parser development it would be easier to keep [External Model] scoped under the [Model] keyword. Based on the current discussion, Stephen will mostly likely call for a vote on BIRD75.5 and BIRD77 at the meeting following the IBIS East summit meeting. BIRD78 - Comment Line Length Limit Bob Ross introduced BIRD78, which was authored by Lynne Green. This BIRD was suggested by the IBIS quality committee, and deals with relaxing the line length limit rule following a comment character. Further discussion was postponed pending Lynne returns. IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS Bob Ross reported that several new BUG reports need to be discussed and classified. - BUG71 - Monotonic Checking for Combined I-V Tables There was no update on this BUG report. Before this bug can be dispositioned the BUG authors must clarify what the IV table combination rules are as well as if the checks replace the old ones or are intended to be in addition to the existing checks. - BUG73 - Extreme Non-Monotonic I-V Table Fails End-Point Test This bug was submitted by Arpad Muranyi. Arpad has discovered a case where extreme non-monotonic values at the beginning of a table cause the IV/VT end point test to fail. This bug is classified as Annoying and Low. We will investigate it to see if a fix is possible. - BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages Bob Ross introduced BUG74, authored by Greg Edlund. It proposes more Warning messages for missing Vmeas and various combinations of timing test loads. Bob was concerned that some combinations were actually complete if some implied default values were assumed. In particular, Rref is infinity, if missing, Vref and Cref are 0 if missing. So the Warning might be informational to state what is assumed or that the intended values had not been entered. (Bob noted that the IBIS Specification does not state default values.) Also, BUG74 needs to document under what Model_types that the report applies. It also needs to document that some of the values might be available as part of the [Model Spec] keyword. Finally, it might be useful for some Open_* model types to provide a Warning if Rref is not issued. However, in all cases, the Warning might be issued for a valid model. For example, internal terminators provided by the clamp tables might also serve as the timing test load (such as for an Open_* device), and no external Rref or Cref is needed. The Warning might be useful to support a better style of explicitly stating the loads, even they are the default values. Greg stated that he will investigate this further and provide more detail for an updated BUG report. BUG74 was classified as Annoying, Medium and Open. We will need more information before deciding on how to resolve BUG74. - BUG75 - Successive EBD Checking Crashes Automated Checker Bob Ross introduced this bug, which submitted by Lynne Green. When ibischk3 source is complied into another program, and the other program creates successive ibischk3 calls to EBD files, a crash can occurs if there is an error in the second EBD file at the IBIS version level. After a short discussion this bug was classified as Annoying, Low and to be fixed. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be the IBIS East summit meeting on October 15, 2002 from 10:00 AM to 3:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871 lgreen@cadence.com Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems 20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 guy_deburgh@mentor.com Senior Manager, Mentor Graphics 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398 roy.leventhal@ieee.org Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications 1924 North Burke Drive Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008 John_angulo@mentor.com Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================