DATE: 11/06/02 SUBJECT: November 1, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang, Mike LaBonte, Todd Westerhoff Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong) IBM Greg Edlund, Pravin Patel Innoveda (Merged with Mentor John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh, Steve Gascoigne Graphics) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis, Michael Mirmak LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd, Mike Donnelly, Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, [Tom Dagostino], Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet, Kevin Cohan Micron Technology Randy Wolff* Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Rick Kingen National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya) North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Eckhard Lenski Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz, Walter Katz, Robert Moles, Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher, Steve Coe, Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock, Bob Haller* Sigrity Raj Raghuram SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin Teraspeed (Scott McMorrow), Tom Dagostino Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002: 3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn Actel Prabhu Mohan Agilent Herbert Lage Airbus Claude Huet Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto Apt Software Atul Agarwal Astrium Olivier Prieur Bee Technologies Corporation Tsuyoshi Horigome Brocade Communications Robert Badal Compaq Shafier-ur-Rahman Conexant Arzu Simsek* EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin EFM Ekkehard Miersch EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jeanne Hereth, Elena Gutman, Julian Simbu Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Force Computers Roger Sukiennik Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler Systems Hitachi Nonoyama Sadahiro, Shoji Kazuyoshi Japan Electronics and Kiyomi Daishido Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal Communication National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola) Science (INSA) Etienne Sicard, Stephane Baffreau Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. [Tsuyoshi Horigome] Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres Synopsys (Avanti) (Hailong Wang) TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro Thales Saverio Lerose Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick) UTMC Greg Haynes Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long Independent Larry Barnes In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode November 22, 2002 (916) 356-2663 5 8435570 December 13, 2002 (916) 356-2663 3 5013842 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Arzu Simsek from Conexant Systems phoned in to learn more about the forum and IBIS modeling. CALL FOR PATENTS Stephen Peters called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS Version 4.0 Standard. No companies declared a patent. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Stephen Peters reported that the EIA has received a membership payment from Apple Computer, bringing our current membership to 31 paid members. We are still waiting on payment from one more company. Stephen also reported that we are waiting on EIA to send us a proposed budget for 2003. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The September 20, 2002 minutes were approved without change. The October 15, 2002 IBIS Summit Meeting Minutes were approved without change. The ARs were discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Lynne Green mentioned that she is doing a free IBIS Seminar on the internet (webinar) on Wednesday, November 6, 2002 at 10:00 AM Pacific time on "IBIS Modeling and Validation". For information and registration details see: http://www.cadencepcb.com/webinar/modeling/frmmodeling.asp Stephen Peters reiterated the EIA rules regarding discussion of commercial product comparison, vendor specific plans or pricing on the IBIS reflector. Such discussions should be conducted off line. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Stephen Peters reported that Syed Huq has updated both the Upcoming Events page and the roster page. The main web page will, in the near future, also be updated with a link that lists the contact information for the IBIS officers. Bob Ross noted that former IBIS Officer Jon Powell has published an article How to Develop and IBIS Model in the October 2002 issue of Printed Circuit Design magazine, pp. 24 - 27: http://www.pcdmag.com/pdf/0210/0210feat4.pdf Bob mentioned that an article "Simulation for the Suppression of PCB Emissions in Digital Telematics Devices" by Scott Mee, Roy Leventhal, Mike Ventham and Al Wexler is published in the November 2002 issue of Item Update 2002, and mentions IBIS. Contact Roy for a copy. Bob also noted that Mike Ventham pointed to an Electronics Weekly article critical of IBIS where a number of active participants were quoted (link split into two lines to avoid mailer truncation): http://www.electronicsweekly.co.uk/issue/dailyview.asp?vpath=/articles /2002/09/25/daily06.htm NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE None. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross asked to discuss a pending ibischk3 bug report (BUG77). INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters needs to review the some comments on the Cookbook and Report document. Bob Ross reported that he plans to attend EMC COMPO 2002 (3rd International Workshop on Electromagnetic Compatibility of Integrated Circuits) in Toulouse, France and present an introductory overview of "IBIS and ICEM". PCB CONFERENCE EAST IBIS SUMMIT MEETING FEEDBACK Stephen Peters asked for comments on the recently held IBIS East Summit meeting. Bob Haller remarked that he thought the meeting went very well and was very informative. He noted that the on-site portion of the meeting was well attended and that they could have used a bigger room. Stephen asked if there were any specific comments on the webcast. Bob Ross noted that he received feedback from a participant overseas that the webcast made it possible for him to attend. It was noted that having one host that controlled the webcast works well. In response to a question from Arpad Muranyi, it was noted that the room at NESA needs a better sound reinforcement system. DESIGNCON 2003 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING Stephen Peters reported that planning is underway for the DesignCon2003 IBIS Summit sponsored by DesignCon2003 and National Semiconductor. The summit is scheduled for Monday, January 27, 2003 in Santa Clara, California at the Westin Hotel adjacent to the Santa Clara Convention Center. This will be an all day meeting. National Semiconductor is supplying the lunch, and attendees should visit the upcoming events link on the IBIS web site and sign up with Milt Schwartz. As in past years IBIS has reserved a booth on the convention floor. Guy de Burgh of Mentor Graphics has been asked to handle the booth logistics. Finally, Stephen noted that first meeting announcement and call for papers will be sent to the reflector later this month. Arpad Muranyi asked if there was interest in setting up another webcast. The webcast would accommodate folks from Europe or Japan that cannot attend the summit in person. Stephen took the action item to look into securing a network connection for the meeting room. Bob Ross remarked that paying for this connection would be an opportunity for a member company to achieve co-sponsorship of the summit. Stephen took a quick poll of those present, asking who was planning on attending. All the officers present stated that they were planning on attending. Even with the tight economy, the consensus is that we should expect between 50 and 60 attendees at the summit. IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING ISSUES Stephen Peters opened the discussion by announcing that Atual Agarwal has been selected to develop ibischk4, the golden parser for IBIS version 4.0. The winning bid was for $25,000 dollars. However, there is a problem with funding the development effort. Stephen related that the funds the IBIS Open Forum accumulated over the past couple of years through extra parser sales and sales of the specification are not available to us. While it appears that we will have a balance of approximately $1,000 at the end of the year and the EIA will kick in an additional $4,000, the member companies will have to contribute much more than was originally planned. Stephen asked for ideas on how companies would like to fund the parser development. Lynne Green stated that Cadence Design Systems has budgeted $2,000 for ibischk4 parser development. Stephen asked if folks preferred to do a general dues increase to cover parser development, but the consensus is that we should ask for direct funding of the parser. After further discussion, Arpad Muranyi suggested that Stephen write a letter to the existing license holders (plus others) asking if they are willing to license ibischk4 source code for a suggested $2,000 fee. If this is too much, the letter should ask what amount is doable, and if a company can pay more than $2,000. We will evaluate our options further when we know how many companies can contribute. IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE Bob Haller reported that IBIS quality committee meetings were held on September 24, October 8, October 15 (before the summit), and again on October 22, 2002. Bob noted that Hitachi is now participating in quality meetings (they also attended the IBIS East summit) and another company was also considering going the group. Currently, the quality committee is wrapping up documentation on the quality checklist and closing a few remaining issues on the quality levels. They hope to have the final documentation released in time for the summit in January. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE Lynne Green reported that a revised terminator model from Philips has been distributed. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES None. IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT Stephen Peters stated that the draft revision 1.0 Interconnect Specification (ICM specification) has been released to the full committee for review. Michael Mirmak of Intel has provided a detail review and extensive comments on the draft. Because of the already lengthy agenda, Stephen asked to defer discussion on these comments until next meeting. BIRD75.6 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support BIRD77.1 - Differential Subparameter Additions Bob Ross reported that a meeting was held with Arpad Muranyi and Michael Mirmak to resolve some of the recent differences opinion expressed on the IBIS reflector. The major concern was that the BIRDs as structured were not positioned well for future expansion. They carried too much legacy material. The result of the meeting is that Bob will co-author with Arpad, Michael and Chris Reid of Mentor Graphics and a new BIRD75.7 and BIRD77.2 to capture the agreements. The major change is the [External Model] will remain positioned as is, but be used for legacy IBIS models only. [External Circuit] will expand to include new model circuitry along with interconnect circuitry. A number of other points have been resolved regarding port and node definitions, support only for Berkeley SPICE, etc. Some other issues will be covered by other BIRDs, but may not be that urgent. Bob stated that we will try to get the new proposals out within the week, if possible. Stephen Peters asked if the current keywords dealing with model specifications ([Model Spec], [Receiver Threshold]) are legal under the new [External Circuit] keyword. Arpad replied that model specifications will be handled by a separate bird that addresses user defined parameters. Arpad envisions specification parameters that are used much like how the 'measure' statements are used in HSPICE. Bob noted that support for true differential buffers under [External Model] is still an open issue. Bob also noted that adding the ICM language as a choice under [External Circuit] is being discussed, but no commitment has been made to include this feature in BIRD75.7. Because of the extensive changes there was no vote taken at this meeting. Assuming the revised bird is distributed before the 2 week deadline, Bob would like to vote on BIRDS75.7 and BIRD77.2 at the November 22, 2002 meeting. BIRD74.2 - EMI Parameters Due to the absence of the BIRD's author discussion was postponed until next meeting. BIRD78 - Comment Line Length Limit Lynne Green introduced BIRD78, noting that it resulted from a quality committee discussion. The quality committee Would like to drop the rule that limits line length to 80 characters in the case where the line contains a comment (i.e. the comment can extend beyond the 80 character limit). Stephen Peters asked for the rational, and Lynne replied that the rule change is needed to allow for documentation of file names and URL paths. Lynne suggested that a 256 character limit would be adequate. Bob Ross noted that a 256 character limit is not now mentioned in the BIRD and would have to be added. Bob also expressed a general concern regarding adding exceptions to the exiting rule. There was some discussion on the merits of not specifying a limit at all. Bob asked if it would be better to follow the rules set forth in the interconnect modeling (ICM) specification. The question was raised that if we were removing the line length restrictions on comment lines, why not do it for all lines -- i.e. remove the length restrictions totally, including limits on column widths currently specified by some keywords. The consensus was that while we may want to remove the current 80 character limit and column limits, there was merit in having some overall limit that would serve us better into the future. Stephen remarked that this would require a separate BIRD from the one now under consideration. Lynne agreed to follow up with a revised BIRD (BIRD78.1) that would include the 256 character limit. Lynne also agreed to look into authoring a BIRD that would remove the current 80 character limit and column limits. Bob cautioned that to cover all cases would involve extensive study and quite a lengthy BIRD. IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS Stephen Peters reported that one new BUG report need to be discussed and classified, and two others require follow-up. - BUG71 - Monotonic Checking for Combined I-V Tables Per input from the forum and Bob Ross in particular the I-V table combinations checked per model type have been defined. Lynne Green raised an issue with I/O model type -- the power and gnd clamp tables must be summed together and then summed with the pullup or puldown tables as appropriate. Arpad Muranyi noted that the Input model cases needs to be added to table. [Driver Schedule] and [Submodel] also need to documented. The discussion emphasized that the combined table warnings would replace existing warnings on separate tables. Bug is classified as Enhancement, Low and Open. Bob Haller agreed to update the bug report as specified above. - BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages Not covered due to lack of time. - BUG76 - External Package Under Win32 Requires Writable Root Stephen Peters introduced BUG76, which was reported by Alex Loehr of Zuken In brief, in Win32 versions of the parser if an IBIS file contains an external package a temporary file is created in the root directory of the current drive. If the root directory is not writable the package isn't found. Alex has supplied a proposed software patch to fix the problem. Stephen proposed that this bug be classified as moderate, low, and open. Agreed, but Lynne Green would like to discuss this bug further at the next meeting. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, November 22, 2002 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific time. A vote on BIRD75.7 and BIRD77.2 is scheduled. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 788-4289 lgreen@cadence.com Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems 20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 guy_deburgh@mentor.com Senior Manager, Mentor Graphics 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398 roy.leventhal@ieee.org Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications 1924 North Burke Drive Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008 John_angulo@mentor.com Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================