DATE: 08/11/04 SUBJECT: August 6, 2004 EIA IBIS Open Forum Summit Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2004 PARTICIPANTS Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui Cadence Design Systems C. Kumar, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Sergio Camerlo, Syed Huq*, Mike LaBonte, Stan Penner, Todd Westerhoff Hitachi ULSI Systems Kazuyoshi Shoji IBM (Pravin Patel) Intel Corporation David Keates, Peter T. Larsen Wilson Leung, Michael Mirmak*, Arpad Muranyi*, Steve Peterson LSI Logic Frank Gasparik* Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh, Weston Beal, Ian Dodd, Gary Pratt, Eric Rongere, Stephane Rousseau Micron Technology Paul Gregory, Randy Wolff* NEC Electric Corporation Takeshi Watanabe Samtec Otto Bennig Siemens AG Eckhard Lenski*, Manfred Maurer Siemens Medical (Acuson) David Lieby Signal Integrity Software Robert Haller*, Barry Katz Sigrity Raymond Chen, Jiayuan Fang Synopsys Warren Wong. Edmund Cheng Texas Instruments Jean Claude Perrin, Hector Torres Teraspeed Consulting Group Tom Dagostino, Scott McMorrow, Bob Ross* Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey Zuken (& Incases) Ralf Bruening, Caroline Legendre, Laetitia Simonian OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2004: Actel Prabhu Mohan Alcatel Jean-Pierre Bouthemy Ansoft Corporation Hank Campbell Apache Design Yu Liu Bayside Design Daniel Lambalot, Kevin Roselle Bee Technologies Tsuyoshi Horigome Conexant Garry Felker Cortina Systems Robert Badal EADS Olivier Maurice Edality Rob te Nijenhuis EFM Ekkehard Miersch Extreme Networks Lin Shen Fraunhofer IZM Ege Engin GEIA (Chris Denham) Green Streak Programs Lynne Green* Independent Kelly Green, Kim Helliwell, Jon Powell INSA Etienne Sicard Interface Technologies Dan Waterloo The MathWorks Colin Warwick*, Robert Zeng* Netlogic Microsystems Eric Hsu North Carolina State Univ. Paul Franzon, Ambrish Varma North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre Northrup Grumman Dan Crain, Adrianna Zammit Politecnico di Torino Igor Stievano Samsung Il Seong Silverback Systems Gil Gafni Sintecs BV Hans Klos In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. UPCOMING MEETINGS The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Telephone Number Bridge # Passcode August 27, 2004 1-916-356-2663 2 388-9579 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM US Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting. When calling into the meeting, provide the bridge number and passcode at the automated prompts. If asked by an operator, please request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak. For international dial-in numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. --------------------------------MINUTES----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Colin Warwick and Robert Zeng of The MathWorks introduced themselves. They are affiliated with The MathWorks' radiofrequency analysis products and are interested in potential extensions to Touchstone(R). CALL FOR PATENTS Michael Mirmak called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS Version 4.0, 4.1, or ICM 1.0 specifications. No patents were declared. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Michael Mirmak updated the team on the current state of Open Forum finances. Membership stands at nineteen organizations. Five parser licenses have been sold, with commitment for a sixth purchase later this year. In order to achieve budget targets, at least two more parser licenses and four more membership sales are required. [Note: since the meeting, the membership roster has been updated to correctly list twenty paid member organizations]. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND ARS Michael Mirmak reviewed the minutes of the July 16, 2004 IBIS Open Forum teleconference. Michael noted that no requests for changes have been received and asked for objections to approving the minutes as written. Bob Ross observed that the minutes incorrectly noted the date of the previous IBIS Open Forum teleconference as "July 25" rather than "June 25." The minutes were approved with the requested changes noted. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq reported that several updates have been made to the main EIGROUP web page, to include information on ICM, the IBIS parser and Open Forum membership. Additional style changes, plus an overhaul of the FAQ page, are underway. Bob Ross noted that the default web URL of the EIGROUP page is different from that historically distributed by the Open Forum. Syed accepted the AR to work with the GEIA on establishing an automatic redirect to the correct website. John Angulo proposed that mailing list join instructions be updated or linked to the welcome page. Michael Mirmak announced that, once again, EDN Magazine Japan has published a substantial article on JEITA involvement with IBIS 4.1. Atsuji Ito reports that interest continues to be high in the new IBIS features. The article (in Japanese) from the July edition can be found at the URL below: http://www.ednjapan.com/content/l_news/2004/07/06eda_JEITA.html NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE No update. Bob Ross and Michael Mirmak accepted an AR to check the existing links on the library page and confer with Lance on any issues. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS No announcements were made. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES No Opens were raised MAILING LIST ADMINISTRATION Bob Ross reported that the reflectors are operating normally and that no major outages have been noted. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS Bob Ross reminded the attendees that the 13th Topical Meeting on Electrical Performance of Electronic Packaging (EPEP 2004) is scheduled for October 25-27, 2004 in Portland, Oregon. Several participants in EPEP have been involved with IBIS. Also, the Future Directions in IC and Package Design Workshop (FDIP'04) is scheduled the day before on Sunday, October 24, 2004. See the site below for details on both meetings: http://www.epep.org/ SUMMITS Michael Mirmak reviewed the upcoming IBIS Summit schedule. - PCB Conference East IBIS Summit, October 4, 2004, Westford MA PCB East is scheduled for October, with a Summit tentatively planned for Monday, October 4. Syed accepted the AR to prepare the draft call for papers for distribution in mid-August. Michael is still working with NESA regarding arrangement details. Bob Haller announced that SiSoft will be able to attend the summit, but expressed concern that the summit would take place in a different state than the actual PCB East conference. - DesignCon IBIS Summit, January 31, 2005, Santa Clara, CA DesignCon 2005 will take place starting in late January, with a Summit scheduled for Monday, January 31. Bob Ross noted that the DesignCon 2005 summit was scheduled for January 31, conflicting with the TechForum portion of the conference. This is a large draw for the conference, but there are advantages to holding the summit early in the week, including ease of room reservations. Michael Mirmak has not yet been able to determine how flexible the summit date can be. Guy de Burgh's participation is still undetermined. If he cannot attend, the IBIS booth will need transportation to the site. Bob Ross noted that this may not be required, as the booth is added value but is not critical to IBIS participation. John Angulo accepted the AR to check on alternate booth transportation anyway. Syed accepted the duty of accepting registrations and acting as DesignCon summit contact. - DATE European IBIS Summit, March 11,2005, Munich, Germany DATE 2005 will take place in Munich, with a Summit planned for Friday, March 11. Michael Mirmak accepted the AR to confirm Zuken's arrangement for a room and refreshments. - Potential JEITA Asian IBIS Summit, Feb-March 2005, Tokyo, Japan Michael reiterated that Atsuji Ito of JEITA has kindly suggested hosting an Asian IBIS summit in Japan in early 2005. At present, early February through March seem best for holding such a summit. Michael also noted that at least one US representative of the Open Forum has tentative approval to attend. Work continues with JEITA to investigate how large the attendance might be and what kinds of presentations might be given at such a summit. Sponsorship opportunities for all these Summits are still available, with sponsors receiving free mentions in the minutes, agenda, and other announcements. IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE Bob Haller reported that meetings continue to be held monthly. The last July meeting was cancelled due to a teleconference bridge failure. The next meeting is scheduled for September 7. Bob noted that increased industry acceptance is the goal of the Committee and that already several companies are observing Quality Committee guidelines. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE Lynne Green stated that one new model had been received, along with IBIS questions, but the data was later sent to the SI-LIST for discussion. S2IBIS3 No updates to S2IBIS3 were reported. S2IBIS3 beta executables can be downloaded from: http://www.ece.ncsu.edu/erl/ibis/s2ibis3/s2ibis3.htm Feedback on the current version is appreciated and encouraged. IBIS VERSION 4.1 PARSER Michael Mirmak summarized the state of the IBIS 4.1 parser. After lengthy consideration, parser development has been awarded to Jon Powell. Michael noted that the decision was not particularly easy, as all three bidders were competitive and provided detailed, comprehensive bids. John Angulo and Bob Ross agreed, adding comments about the challenges of deciding on a final bid winner. Text of a parser development contract has been approved by the GEIA and by Jon. The contract calls for alpha, beta and final code deliveries, with alpha code to include support for only one new keyword. Beta code will include support for all new keywords, but without a comprehensive test suite. Total cost for the contract is US $15,000, paid in three installments of US $5,000 each. The first payment is due at the start of the contract, with the second and third payments only payable upon delivery of beta and final code. Michael called for a vote on the allocation of funds for parser development as described. The vote passed unanimously. Michael noted that the contracts would now be signed and the first payment paid when the appropriate invoices were received. IBIS ANSI BALLOT STATUS Randy Wolff reported that he had begun the appropriate ballot process with the GEIA for ANSI approval of IBIS. Once a decision is taken by the Open Forum as to the version to use, a 30 day review and comment process begins. IEC approval would not be automatic in this case. Participants agreed that IBIS 4.1 is not sufficiently stable for ANSI balloting. IBIS 3.2 is an acceptable balloting option, as is IBIS 4.0 or even the pending IBIS 4.2. As several issues have been already identified in 4.0, Bob Ross expressed concern about submitting it for ANSI approval, as a parallel version of the IBIS specification would result from any changes made to 4.0 to address ANSI comments. Michael Mirmak stated that IBIS 4.2 may not be finalized in a manner timely enough to meet GEIA goals for ANSI balloting. A vote will be taken at the next meeting on which version of the IBIS specification should be submitted for ANSI approval. Michael Mirmak raised the issue of ICM balloting through ANSI. The participants agreed that this would be a positive step and that the comment period would assist in identifying needed clarifications. Randy took the AR to begin the balloting process for ICM 1.1. ICM SPECIFICATION AND PARSER STATUS Michael Mirmak raised the issue of closing ICM to changes for the next revision, ICM 1.1. He noted that several small changes had been proposed during the Futures Committee meeting, but that, aside from IIRD2, no other large changes have been suggested. Kelly Green has reported separately that a beta parser can be ready within two weeks of closure of ICM 1.1, assuming no other major changes are proposed. Time did not permit a lengthy discussion, so the issue will be raised again at the next meeting. FUTURES AND COOKBOOK COMMITTEES Michael Mirmak reported that both the Futures and Cookbook Committees are continuing to meet during a shared time every two weeks. The Cookbook Committee is about to review a first draft of the revised IBIS cookbook, while the Futures Committee recently held a detailed discussion on power integrity solutions to SSO and core power modeling issues. Participation has been high and active. Recent committee material is stored at: http://www.ibis-information.org/futures/ NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES No new administrative issues were raised. IIRD2.1: FREQUENCY-DEPENDENT RLGC MATRICES Michael Mirmak summarized the changes to IIRD2 since the last meeting. To address concerns from John Angulo and Ian Dodd, the restriction on the number of frequency points within any matrix was removed. The new IIRD2.1 text explicitly refrains from setting an upper limit on the number of frequency points. Additionally, the IIRD text changes the requirements for data between matrices at the same frequency points. The new IIRD allows different frequency points in independent matrices for the same ICM Section, so long as the same row and column information is present for all the frequency points. Bob Ross expressed some concern about the matrix changes, in that interpolation between matrices and between frequency points would render the data useless, especially with small data sets. John Angulo also expressed concern that the original IIRD text might have been more appropriate. He accepted the AR to check with available experts and report back on the most desirable solution. IIRD3: RLGC MATRIX CLARIFICATIONS Michael Mirmak introduced IIRD3 - RLGC Matrix Clarifications. The text of ICM which outlines RLGC matrix data is largely duplicative of the matrix package descriptions in IBIS. Several key rules in the IBIS package format were omitted from the ICM RLGC format description, resulting in ambiguous or needlessly restrictive [Row] and Sparse_matrix requirements. Additionally, the optional nature of Diagonal_matrix and the minimum data needed for [Row] under other matrix types were not accurately described. IIRD3 addresses all these issues. Parser changes are unlikely, but will be investigated. Bob Ross made two stylistic comments but expressed no issue with the technical content. No other comments were offered. BUG REPORTS John Angulo noted that he will propose a formal resolution to BUG80 at the next Open Forum meeting. While he previously believed that the parser's error messages need clarification, he now suggests that doing nothing is the appropriate course of action. John will provide a justification for group discussion. NEW TECHNICAL ISSUES Colin Warwick introduced the AMP specification, a proprietary set of extensions to the Agilent Touchstone(R) format to address non-linear power output and phase input in the frequency domain. The MathWorks and its customer base recognizes that Touchstone(R) S2P files are industry standards and used the IBIS definition of Touchstone(R) in creating AMP and interpretations of Touchstone(R) in its own tools. Colin inquired whether AMP could be incorporated into Touchstone(R) so that power output and phase input data could be entered and processed by users automatically. Colin added that he could not comment specifically on ICM, and noted that the CITI format was not addressed by AMP. Bob Ross reviewed the history of ICM S-parameter support, noting that AMP has the opposite problem from ICM. As ICM required an S-parameter data format, the Open Forum elected to use an existing, common format rather than create a new one. Agilent accepted our use of Touchstone(R) and permitted the Open Forum to write a standard description of the format for public consumption. Bob added that incorporating non-linear data would be a positive, useful step forward for ICM. However, he did not know whether the specific experts able to ask appropriate questions were present. He suggested that peer-review be undertaken of AMP and of the question of whether it should be incorporated into ICM. Michael Mirmak noted that, as Touchstone(R) was owned and controlled by Agilent, no additions to Touchstone(R) could be considered without their consent and involvement. Colin stated that the AMP documentation is already available on the web and that a variety of tool and measurement companies should be invited to any discussion of AMP. This discussion will continue in more depth during an upcoming Futures Committee meeting. NEXT MEETING The next Open Forum teleconference has been scheduled for August 27, 2004 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM US Pacific Time. A vote on IIRD3 is scheduled, as is a vote on which IBIS version to use for ANSI balloting purposes. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax: (916) 377-1046 michael.mirmak@intel.com Senior Analog Engineer, Intel Corporation FM6-45 1900 Prairie City Rd. Folsom, CA 95630 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475 rrwolff@micron.com Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc. 8000 S. Federal Way Mail Stop: 1-711 Boise, ID 83707-0006 LIBRARIAN: Lance Wang (978) 262-6685, Fax: (978) 262-6363 lwang@cadence.com Senior Member, Technical Staff, Cadence Design Systems, Inc. 270 Billerica Road Chelmsford, CA 01824 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: Bob Ross (503) 246-8048, Fax : (503) 239-4400 bob@teraspeed.com Staff Scientist, Teraspeed Consulting Group 10238 SW Lancaster Road Portland, OR 97219 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the GEIA Legal Guides and GEIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-bug@eda.org To report ibischk parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibis_bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. icm-bug@eda.org To report icmchk1 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/icm_bugs/icm_bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. 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