IBIS Open Forum Minutes Meeting Date: August 20, 2010 Meeting Location: Teleconference VOTING MEMBERS AND 2010 PARTICIPANTS Agilent Radek Biernacki*, Ming Yan, Fangyi Rao, Gilbert Berger, Amolak Badeasa, Jose Pino, Junaid Khan AMD Nam Nguyen Ansys (Ansoft Corporation) Danil Kirsanov Apple Computer (Matt Herndon) Applied Simulation Technology (Fred Balistreri) ARM (Nirav Patel) Cadence Design Systems Terry Jernberg*, Wenliang Dai, Ambrish Varma Cisco Systems Syed Huq*, Mike LaBonte*, Tony Penaloza, Huyen Pham, Bill Chen, Ravindra Gali, Zhiping Yang Ericsson Anders Ekholm, Pete Tomaszewski Freescale Jon Burnett, Om Mandhana Green Streak Programs Lynne Green Hitachi ULSI Systems Yutaka Uematsu Huawei Technologies (Jinjun Li) IBM Adge Hawes, Greg Edlund* Infineon Technologies AG Christian Sporrer Intel Corporation Michael Mirmak*, Myoung (Joon) Choi, Vishram Pandit, Richard Mellitz IO Methodology Lance Wang LSI Brian Burdick* Mentor Graphics Arpad Muranyi*, Neil Fernandes, Zhen Mu Micron Technology Randy Wolff* Nokia Siemens Networks GmbH Eckhard Lenski* Samtec (Corey Kimble) Signal Integrity Software Walter Katz, Mike Steinberger, Todd Westerhoff*, Barry Katz Sigrity Brad Brim, Kumar Keshavan, Srdjan Djordjevic, Ben Franklin Synopsys Ted Mido, Paul Lo, Geoffrey Ying, Frank Lee Teraspeed Consulting Group Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino Texas Instruments Bonnie Baker Toshiba Yoshihiro Hamaji Xilinx Mike Jenkins ZTE (Huang Min) Zuken Michael Schaeder, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2010 Actel (Prabhu Mohan) AET, Inc. Mikio Kiyono Altera John Oh, Hui Fu Avago Razi Kaw Bosch Car Multimedia Rene Steinberg, Patric Kessler Broadcom Mohammad Ali Curtiss-Wright John Phillips ECL, Inc. Tom Iddings eSilicon Hanza Rahmai Exar Corp. Helen Nguyen ICT-Lanto Steven Wong* JEITA Atsushi Ishikawa Leading Edge Pietro Vergine Magna Design Automation Anand Ramalingram Mindspeed Bobby Altaf National Semiconductor Hsinho Wu NetLogic Microsystems Eric Hsu, Edward Wu, Antonio Orphanou, Halil Civit NXP Semiconductors Gerald Krasemann Politecnico di Torino Igor Stievano, Stefano Grivet-Talocia, Piero Triverio, Flavio Canavero Renesas Technology Takuji Komeda Siemens, AG. Manfred Maurer, Michael Flint Simberian Yuriy Shlepnev Span Systems Corporation Vidya (Viddy) Amirapu Summit Computer Systems Bob Davis Tabula David Banas TechAmerica (Chris Denham) Vitesse Semiconductor Bob McDonough Independent AbdulRahman (Abbey) Rafiq, Robert Badal In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. UPCOMING MEETINGS The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Meeting Number Meeting Password September 10, 2010 200-424-632 IBIS For teleconference dial-in information, use the password at the following website: https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/j.php?J=200424632 All teleconference meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM US Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting. When calling into the meeting, follow the prompts to enter the meeting ID. For new, local international dial-in numbers, please reference the bridge numbers provided by Cisco Systems at the following link: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/conferencing/index.html NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. CALL FOR PATENTS Michael Mirmak called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS 3.2, IBIS 4.2, IBIS 5.0, Touchstone 2.0 or ICM 1.1 specifications. No patents were declared. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND ARS Randy Wolff called for comments regarding the minutes of the July 30, 2010 IBIS Open Forum teleconference. The minutes were approved without changes. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Michael Mirmak reported that we still have 31 members. He mentioned that any new logo updates are appreciated. Bob Ross reported that he is reconciling a new financial report from TechAmerica. Income from three members is missing. We sold another parser, so the report should show five for 2010, although it only shows income for two. We should be in a very positive cash situation this year. WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq reported that FAQ, roster and poster pages were updated to reflect the latest membership. The events page was updated to reflect new summit information. MAILING LIST ADMINISTRATION Mike LaBonte reported that he has had concerns with emails bouncing. Many rejections are not just for ibis and ibis-users lists but also on ibis-info and ibis-requests lists. He is keeping track of which lists are causing problems. He sent another query on interest in a paid smtp server. There have been no responses yet. There was a request for a new email list: ibis- summit@eda.org. He put in a request, but the administrator hasn’t added it yet. Bob Ross asked if we have considered using freelists for IBIS purposes. Mike’s only concern is that we wouldn’t have eda.org addresses. Michael Mirmak added that attachments aren’t saved in the archives on freelists. Mike will look into freelists and report at the next teleconference. MODEL LIBRARY UPDATE No report. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL ACTIVITIES - DASC Michael Mirmak noted that a new set of meetings is scheduled with the next one August 26. The DASC file and e-mail archive may be found at: http://www.dasc.org/ - P1735 Encryption No update. The IEEE Study Group on Encryption web reflector archives are found at: http://www.eda-stds.org/ip-encrypt/hm/ -VHDL-AMS meeting Arpad Muranyi reported that he did not attend the last meeting. This subcommittee is working on table-driven models. -Conferences Michael Mirmak noted that the IEEE Conference on Electrical Performance of Electronic Packaging and Systems (EPEPS) is October 24-27, 2010 in Austin, Texas. There are usually topics of interest to IBIS. More information can be found at the following link: http://epeps.ece.illinois.edu/ -Press Update Bob Ross noted a recent article that mentions IBIS and IBIS-AMI. It is "Keeping a Lid on Interference" in the July 15, 2010 issue of EDN, pages 26- 32. The article is at: http://tinyurl.com/2ftjztq Michael noted that he has seen announcements of webinars from several companies on multi-gigabit serial differential signaling. Many mention IBISI-AMI. TECHAMERICA STATUS Michael Mirmak reported that TechAmerica’s manuals of procedures and operations have been updated. These are now available free. There is a link on the IBIS Open Forum info page for the new manual. There has also been an offer of training on TechAmerica’s new online standards system. We are trying to find more details. IEC APPROVAL ACTIVITIES Randy Wolff reported that he contacted Stan Krolikoski, the new DASC chair. Stan responded that he is not directly involved in the IEC process, but he would forward Randy’s email to several people including Victor Berman. SUMMIT STATUS -China Summit Planning The meeting is at the Four Points by Sheraton hotel in Shenzhen on Tuesday, November 9. Bob noted that the first announcement went out. Lance Wang and Bob will handle the signups. There will be vendor tables. The deadline to submit presentations is October 12 to allow time to print the booklets. Another announcement may be sent out next week. -Taiwan Summit Planning The meeting will be held Friday, November 12 at the Sherwood Hotel in Taipei near Intel. Sigrity will assist with the registration. Bob reported that the first announcement will be sent out soon. There is some discussion with the board on how to handle presentation copies. We may decide to have a booklet, but that will require an earlier presentation deadline. The room can handle more than 100 people. Vendor tables will be arranged. Someone locally will need to handle making copies of the presentations. -Japan Summit Planning Bob reported this will be Monday, November 15 at the JEITA headquarters near Tokyo Station. Sponsors should be arranged within the next few weeks. No lunch is planned. Steven Wong asked if there was a maximum limit to attendees at any of the summit meetings. Michael Mirmak responded that we do not close the rooms or set any arbitrary limits. Bob noted that we do require signups, although these are not rigorously enforced. We usually plan for all the signed-up attendees as well as a few extras. We are comfortable in the 100- 150 range in Shenzhen and at least 100 in Taipei. Sponsorship opportunities for all upcoming IBIS summits are available, with sponsors receiving free mentions in the minutes, agenda, and other announcements. Contact the IBIS Board for further details. IBIS QUALITY TASK GROUP Mike LaBonte reported that they are continuing to study the IEEE Feature Selective Validation specification. They are trying to understand the process and what the reports mean. They are working with Professor Orlandi who developed the FSV1D software. The group is starting with the IBIS Accuracy handbook as a skeleton for the IBIS Correlation document. They need to find someone to write the bulk of the document. The group is meeting every two weeks, and the next meeting is August 31. The Quality Task Group checklist and other documentation can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/quality_wip/ IBIS MODEL REVIEW TASK GROUP No update. ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY MODELING TASK GROUP Arpad Muranyi reported that IBIS-ISS discussions have moved to the Interconnect task group meeting. The ATM group is continuing with AMI related discussions. They are approaching the end of flow diagram related discussions. They are reviewing a BIRD from Arpad on terminology cleanup such as defining float and integer. Task group material can be found at: http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/macromodel_wip/ INTERCONNECT TASK GROUP Michael Mirmak reported that the group is reviewing the IBIS-ISS document every other week. They are also talking about Model Connection Protocol (MCP) on alternate weeks. Steven Wong asked about the IBIS-AMI versus Stateye labeling. Michael noted that IBIS-AMI is a labeling for a portion of the IBIS 5.0 specification. There is an IBIS parser. Stateye is freely developed software not associated with IBIS. Task group material can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/adhoc/interconnect/ NEW ISSUES None. TSIRD2.1 – BINARY FORMAT SUPPORT Michael Mirmak received a comment to add a pair of blank lines so some of the text in the example is easier to read. Bob Ross suggested that this is just a minor editing task that doesn’t require official changes to the TSIRD. A vote was called for inclusion of TSIRD2.1 in the next release of the Touchstone specification, Touchstone 2.1. The vote was approved with the following vote tally: Agilent – yes Cadence – yes Cisco – yes IBM – yes Intel – yes LSI – yes Mentor – yes Micron – yes Nokia Siemens Networks – yes SiSoft – yes Teraspeed - yes Bob noted that it needs to be discussed how to integrate the TSIRD into the new specification. He will also plan to discuss with the tschk2 parser developer plans to update the parser code. TSCHK2 BUG STATUS No BUGs to report. Michael Mirmak noted that the source code is available for purchase. IBISCHK5 BUG STATUS Michael Mirmak noted there are no new BUGs to report. All current BUGs have been classified. IBISCHK5 UPDATE DEVELOPMENT Bob Ross reported that nine BUGs are being fixed and two others are being looked into for possible fixes. He had suggestions for fixing BUG104. It will require a BIRD, so it is suggested to simply remove the error from the parser at this time. BUG112 will be changed to “Not a BUG” status based on further analysis. The developer found that three of the error messages were wrong in the error code/message mapping table, and he is fixing this. A BUG report will be filed to address this error. PULLUP/PULLDOWN RESISTOR DETECTION PROPOSAL Greg Edlund filed BIRD113. Greg noted that Tom Dagostino had commented that it was unclear if the information was being used by a simulator to change any electrical characteristics of the [Model] during simulation. Greg plans to update the language in the BIRD to clarify that this is informational only for the purpose of checking. Michael Mirmak suggested adding that this information is independent of buffer type too, as this could be found in a Terminator model. He added that all the parameters under [Model Spec] do not change the buffer behavior but are only informational for simulators to decide how to process simulation results. This new information does not even affect simulation results. Greg noted that he was asked if any of this information could be found in the model I- V curves already. Greg said that this was not easy to find. Michael Mirmak commented that chip designs have strapping that changes the state of the chip during certain events or when certain pin conditions exist. Is there any information needed to define a state condition for the weak pullup/pulldown? For instance, if the weak pullup/pulldown is present at all times, you should see the information in the I-V tables. If it turns off at some point, it might not be seen in the I-V tables. Mike LaBonte felt you should have a [Model Selector] if this is the case. Mike noted that when he does see weak pullup/pulldown data present in the I-V tables, he usually questions the data and consults datasheets. The BIRD113 information does help confirm that the I-V table data is correct. Greg added that he plans to request that his vendors add this new information into their models. He noted that he wants to know whether a weak pulldown/pullup exists even if it is programmable or static. When programmable, this will require more work to classify it. Michael added that it might be useful debug information to know if the weak pullup/pulldown noted in [Model Spec] should be seen in the I-V tables. Greg doesn’t think it is that important to flag the weak pullup/pulldown as static or dynamic. Bob Ross agreed with this statement. Michael noted that there are line wrap issues in the file. Also, any changes to the IBIS specification as noted in the BIRD should be noted with the “|*” syntax. Greg will update this in a BIRD113.1 revision. Arpad Muranyi asked if the parser would be expected to flag mismatches between the resistor value and the I-V data. Bob suggested the parser should not check this. Bob also noted that “K” in 10K in the BIRD should be lower case. Arpad also preferred that the parameter names have “r” and “v” in upper-case. Bob also suggested that language be added to specify what parameters are required such as if a Weak_pull_up_r resistor is specified, a corresponding Weak_pull_up_V voltage be specified. Randy Wolff added that he preferred the parameter names be Weak_pullup* and Weak_pulldown* (no “_”) to be consistent with the rest of IBIS. Bob suggested that language be added to note that the actual I-V data associated with this information would normally apply to the [POWER Clamp] and [GND Clamp] tables. Mike LaBonte noted that the example in the BIRD shows both a weak pullup and a weak pulldown, but he doesn’t think this would ever happen. Michael noted that there wouldn’t be a reason to have two resistor and voltage options when only one voltage and one resistor would ever be present. Bob wondered if you could document any termination with these parameters such as a strong Vtt termination in DDR. Greg thought this should only document weak terminations. Bob noted that you would need to define a cutoff of what would be considered weak. Greg clarified that this information is meant to screen those nets that don’t use high-speed type, strong terminations. Greg will update the BIRD for the next teleconference. IBIS-ISS – STATUS Michael Mirmak reported that the document is at Revision 0.5. Comments are welcome. The work in progress document can be found in the following directory: http://www.eda.org/ibis/ibis-iss_wip/ NEW ISSUES Bob noted that there is an issue with the BIRD directory on the website where there are no line feed/carriage return characters. Michael Mirmak will fix this page. NEXT MEETING The next IBIS Open Forum teleconference will be held September 10, 2010 from 8:00 to 10:00 AM US Pacific Standard Time. ======================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax (916) 377-3788 michael.mirmak@intel.com Technical Marketing Engineer, Intel Corporation 1900 Prairie City Rd., FM5-239 Folsom, CA 95630 VICE CHAIR: Lance Wang (978) 633-3388 lwang@iometh.com President / CEO, IO Methodology, Inc. PO Box 2099 Acton, MA 01720 SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475 rrwolff@micron.com SI Modeling Manager, Micron Technology, Inc. 8000 S. Federal Way Mail Stop: 01-711 Boise, ID 83707-0006 LIBRARIAN: Anders Ekholm (46) 10 714 27 58, Fax: (46) 8 757 23 40 ibis-librarian@eda.org Digital Modules Design, PDU Base Stations, Ericsson AB BU Network Färögatan 6 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 huqs@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: Mike LaBonte (978) 936-2147 milabont@cisco.com Signal Integrity Engineer, Cisco Systems Mail Stop BXB01/1/ 1414 Massachusetts Ave Boxborough, MA 01719 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the GEIA Legal Guides and GEIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either or both: IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org) IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-bug@eda.org To report ibischk parser BUGs as well as tschk2 parser BUGs. The BUG Report Form for ibischk resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/ibischk/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt The BUG Report Form for tschk2 resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/tschk_bugs/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/tschk_bugs/bugform.txt icm-bug@eda.org To report icmchk1 parser BUGs. The BUG Report Form resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/icm_bugs/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/icm_bugs/icm_bugform.txt To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the IBIS file directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results: http://www.eda.org/ibis/directory.html Other trademarks, brands and names are the property of their respective owners. IBIS CURRENT MEMBER VOTING STATUS I/O Buffer Information Specification Committee (IBIS) |Organization |Interest |Standard|June 15,|July 9,|July |August | | |Category |s Ballot|2010 |2010 |30, |20, | | | |Voting | | |2010 |2010 | | | |Status | | | | | |Advanced Micro |Producer |Active |- |X |X |- | |Devices | | | | | | | |Agilent |User |Active |X |X |X |X | |Technologies | | | | | | | |Ansys |User |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Apple Computer |User |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Applied |User |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Simulation | | | | | | | |Technology | | | | | | | |ARM |Producer |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Cadence Design |User |Active |X |- |X |X | |Systems | | | | | | | |Cisco Systems |User |Active |X |X |X |X | |Ericsson |Producer |Inactive|X |X |- |- | |Freescale |Producer |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Green Streak |General |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Programs |Interest | | | | | | |Huawei |Producer |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Technologies | | | | | | | |Hitachi ULSI |Producer |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Systems | | | | | | | |IBM |Producer |Active |X |X |X |X | |Infineon |Producer |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Technologies AG | | | | | | | |Intel Corp. |Producer |Active |X |X |X |X | |IO Methodology |User |Active |X |X |X |- | |LSI |Producer |Active |- |X |X |X | |Mentor Graphics |User |Active |X |X |X |X | |Micron |Producer |Active |- |X |- |X | |Technology | | | | | | | |Nokia Siemens |Producer |Active |- |X |X |X | |Networks | | | | | | | |Samtec |Producer |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Signal Integrity|User |Active |X |X |X |X | |Software | | | | | | | |Sigrity |User |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Synopsys |User |Inactive|X |- |- |- | |Teraspeed |General |Active |X |X |X |X | |Consulting |Interest | | | | | | |Texas |Producer |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Instruments | | | | | | | |Toshiba |Producer |Inactive|X |- |- |- | |Xilinx |Producer |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |ZTE |User |Inactive|- |- |- |- | |Zuken |User |Inactive|- |- |- |- | Criteria for Member in good standing: • Must attend two consecutive meetings to establish voting membership • Membership dues current • Must not miss two consecutive Meetings Interest categories associated with TechAmerica ballot voting are: • Users - Members that utilize electronic equipment to provide services to an end user. • Producers - Members that supply electronic equipment. • General Interest - Members are neither producers nor users. This category includes, but is not limited to, Government, regulatory agencies (state and federal), researchers, other organizations and associations, and/or consumers.