IBIS Open Forum Minutes Meeting Date: February 22, 2013 Meeting Location: Teleconference VOTING MEMBERS AND 2013 PARTICIPANTS Agilent Radek Biernacki*, Pegah Alavi, Heidi Barnes, Fangyi Rao, Colin Warwick Altera David Banas*, Hsinho Wu ANSYS Luis Armenta Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui ARM (Vipul Patel) Cadence Design Systems Terry Jernberg, Joy Li, Yingxin Sun, Ambrish Varma, Kevin Yao Ericsson Anders Ekholm, Martina Fiammengo Foxconn Technology Group (Sogo Hsu) Freescale Jon Burnett Huawei Technologies (Jinjun Li) IBM Greg Edlund*, Adge Hawes* Infineon Technologies AG (Christian Sporrer) Intel Corporation Michael Mirmak, Mohammad Bapi, Stewart Gilbert, Ravindra Rudraraju IO Methodology Lance Wang LSI (Brian Burdick) Maxim Integrated Products Hassan Rafat, Mahbubul Bari, Ron Olisar Mentor Graphics Arpad Muranyi*, Ed Bartlett, Vladimir Dmitriev- Zdorov Micron Technology Randy Wolff* Nokia Siemens Networks GmbH (Eckhard Lenski) QLogic James Zhou Signal Integrity Software Walter Katz*, Mike LaBonte*, Mike Steinberger, Todd Westerhoff Synopsys John Ellis, Ted Mido, Scott Wedge Teraspeed Consulting Group Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino Texas Instruments (Pavani Jella) Toshiba (Yasumasa Kondo) Xilinx (Raymond Anderson) ZTE (Huang Min) Zuken Masaud Raeisi, Reinhard Remmert OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2013 Bayside Design Elliot Nahas ECL Advantage Thomas Iddings Granite River Labs Vamshi Kandalla, Miki Takahashi Hewlett-Packard Yongjin Choi, Ting Zhu KEI Systems Shinichi Maeda National Instruments Lee Mohrmann Nvidia Eric Hsu Qualcomm Scott Powers TechAmerica (Chris Denham) University of Illinois Tom Comberiate, José Schutt-Ainé Vitesse Semiconductor Sirius Tsang In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. UPCOMING MEETINGS The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Meeting Number Meeting Password March 15, 2013 205 475 958 IBIS For teleconference dial-in information, use the password at the following website: https://ciscosales.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?J=205475958 All teleconference meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM US Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting. When calling into the meeting, follow the prompts to enter the meeting ID. For new, local international dial-in numbers, please reference the bridge numbers provided by Cisco Systems at the following link: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/conferencing/index.html NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. Bob Ross led, as Michael Mirmak was not able to call in. CALL FOR PATENTS Bob Ross called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS 3.2, IBIS 4.2, IBIS 5.1, Touchstone 2.0 or ICM 1.1 specifications. No patents were declared. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND ARS Randy Wolff called for comments regarding the minutes of the January 11, 2013 IBIS Open Forum teleconference and the January 31, 2013 IBIS Summit at DesignCon. Both sets of minutes were approved without changes. MEMBERSHIP STATUS AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported that 2013 invoices have been sent. He has not received a report from TechAmerica on 2012 finances. WEB PAGE UPDATES Mike LaBonte reported that when he posted files from the DesignCon IBIS Summit, the directory is mostly the same as in previous minutes postings, but during the course of the Summit meeting, he had created a web page version of the agenda for people to click on links of papers. This page is still available. MAILING LIST ADMINISTRATION Mike LaBonte reported that everything is going fine. He has an AR to send an administrative email to the lists to remind everyone of policy, but he is still trying to figure out the policy for attachments. Bob Ross commented that attachments may be legal but are discouraged. Mike noted that this is the case for freelists.org lists used for the task groups. Attachments are permitted on eda.org, but it is using an old program called Hypermail that is unsupported that helps create email archives. Attachments can mess up this program’s operation. MODEL LIBRARY UPDATE No update. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. CALL FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross noted that BIRD158 is a new addition to the agenda, to be discussed after BIRD157. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL ACTIVITIES - Conferences The 17th IEEE Workshop on Signal and Power Integrity (SPI 2013) will be held May 12-15, 2013 in Paris, France. There will probably be a European IBIS Summit in conjunction with this conference. More information is available at: http://spi2013.org - Press Update Bob Ross mentioned an article in the February 2013 issue of Printed Circuit Design & Fab by Ken Willis and Brad Brim. The article mentions IBIS 5.0+ “power aware” models. It can be found at: http://pcdandf.com/cms/component/content/article/171-current- issue/9722-signal-integrity IEC APPROVAL ACTIVITIES Randy Wolff reported that Mike LaBonte and Michael Mirmak attended the IEC National Committee TC91 WG13 teleconference meeting February 8. Mike LaBonte added that we would like to find out what we have to do to standardize IBIS 4.2 through their process. He found that the group has used the dual logo process with IEEE so often that they have forgotten their own process. The working group members are supposed to look into their process further and get back to us. Mike had dinner with Dennis Brophy and Victor Berman the night before, so he did get some face to face meeting time. SUMMIT STATUS -DesignCon 2013 Summit Review The Summit meeting was held Thursday, January 31 in the Mission City M1 room from 8:30am - 4:45pm. 56 people representing 28 organizations attended. Bob Ross thanked Agilent for sponsoring the event. Sponsorship opportunities for all upcoming IBIS summits are available, with sponsors receiving free mentions in the minutes, agenda, and other announcements. Contact the IBIS Board for further details. QUALITY TASK GROUP Mike LaBonte reported that there has not been much regular meeting activity, since attendance has been small and it has been difficult to reach a quorum. The next meeting is March 5 at 8:00am PT. The topic of discussion will be a document creating a specification for the golden parser. The Quality Task Group checklist and other documentation can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/quality_wip/ ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY MODELING TASK GROUP Arpad Muranyi reported that group is meeting every Tuesday. During the last meeting, Walter Katz introduced a new BIRD, BIRD158 that was also posted yesterday. The group has been discussing analog modeling, and Arpad wants to spend more time on the AMI BIRDs that are close to completion. Task group material can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/macromodel_wip/ INTERCONNECT TASK GROUP Bob Ross reported that the group discussed the analog modeling approach, but again moved the discussion to the ATM task group. Walter Katz brought up the EMD document and proposed that the group vote next time on taking it up as a separate specification from IBIS and start on its development. The group is also waiting for closure on the Si2 specification to see how it may affect its work. The group also discussed some issues with BIRD158. The task group documents can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/interconnect_wip/ NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES None. BIRD156.1: IBIS-AMI EXTENSION FOR MID-CHANNEL REDRIVER Bob Ross noted the changes to the BIRD. A text drawing was replaced with a real figure and some new text was added for clarification. Bob thought that there should be a flag indicating that the model is of a redriver, to tell the software that the model is different. Radek Biernacki moved to table the discussion and send the BIRD to the ATM task group for further analysis. Mike LaBonte seconded. There were no objections. BIRD157: PARAMETERIZE [DRIVER SCHEDULE] Arpad Muranyi summarized the BIRD. He noted that a one bit delay for a boost driver is difficult to implement, since the number is hard coded. Parameterizing the delay numbers allows the [Model] to be used for multiple bit delays. Mike LaBonte asked if there was ever discussion to allow the definition of UI to scale the delay values. Arpad liked this idea, but he said this would require a change to define UI. Walter Katz commented that we should be discussing whether we should be changing legacy IBIS for a driver that could be defined with AMI. Radek Biernacki felt that we should let users choose between multiple options so that we don’t force them into one modeling approach. Radek also liked Mike’s comment about defining UI for legacy IBIS. Mike commented that he would like to see a definition of what the EDA software should do with a BIRD like this, so defining a UI would make it clearer. Walter noted that we need to think about what happens to a B-element implementation. Arpad felt this was a GUI issue, as the GUI would allow selection of UI and then setup all the B-elements appropriately. Bob Ross asked what the parameter tree definition would look like, such as having lists or ranges. Arpad noted that the B-element already allows for [Model Selector] selection, so a UI could be added. If a GUI is present, then it is easier to choose. Walter commented that the tool only knows when there are transitions from one to zero, so more capabilities would need to be added to the B-element. Walter asked for clarification that the only purpose of the BIRD is to allow a single model to run at multiple frequencies. Arpad replied that this is correct. Walter moved that the discussion be tabled and moved to the ATM committee. There was no second. Arpad pointed out that the BIRD is dependent on acceptance of BIRD153, so discussion of it simply needs to be tabled. He didn’t think the ATM group had time to discuss this BIRD currently. Radek moved to table discussion of the BIRD. Arpad seconded. There were no objections. BIRD158: AMI TOUCHSTONE ANALOG BUFFER MODELS Walter Katz stated that in IBIS 6.0, this BIRD may become part of the methodology of BIRD116, or it may remain separate. This BIRD is to show everyone how this type of analog model is currently being supported in some software tools. Bob Ross noted that this BIRD has already been discussed in the ATM and Interconnect task group meetings. Arpad Muranyi added that discussions in the ATM group this week summarized this BIRD as a shortcut to BIRD116. He will look to see if this concept can be included in BIRD116. Walter moved to table discussion of the BIRD. Arpad seconded the motion. There were no objections. BIRD116.1: ADD IBIS-ISS TO [EXTERNAL MODEL] AND [EXTERNAL CIRCUIT] AS A SUPPORTED LANGUAGE Discussion was tabled. BIRD117.4: PARAMETERIZE A_TO_D AND D_TO_A CONVERTERS Discussion was tabled. BIRD118.3: ANALOG PARAMETER ASSIGNMENTS Discussion was tabled. BIRD122: IBIS-AMI NEW RESERVED PARAMETERS FOR ANALOG MODELING Discussion was tabled. BIRD125.1: MAKE IBIS-ISS AVAILABLE FOR IBIS PACKAGE MODELING Discussion was tabled. BIRD128: ALLOW AMI_PARAMETERS_OUT TO PASS AMI_PARAMETERS_IN DATA ON CALLS TO AMI_GETWAVE Discussion was tabled. BIRD129: ADD “POLARITY” ARGUMENT TO D_TO_A CONVERTERS Discussion was tabled. BIRD 131: IBIS-AMI REPEATERS Discussion was tabled. BIRD144.3: ADD TOUCHSTONE TO [EXTERNAL MODEL] AND [EXTERNAL CIRCUIT] AS A SUPPORTED LANGUAGE Discussion was tabled. BIRD145.2: CASCADING IBIS I/O BUFFERS WITH [EXTERNAL CIRCUIT]S USING THE [MODEL CALL] KEYWORD Discussion was tabled. BIRD147: BACK-CHANNEL SUPPORT Discussion was tabled. BIRD150: IBIS-AMI NEW RESERVED PARAMETERS FOR DEPENDENCY TABLES Discussion was tabled. BIRD153: PARAMETER TREE KEYWORD Discussion was tabled. BIRD154: USING IBIS-AMI LEAF LABELS IN LIST PARAMETERS Discussion was tabled. BIRD155: NEW AMI API TO RESOLVE DEPENDENT MODEL PARAMETER Discussion was tabled. IBIS SPECIFICATION CHANGE STATUS Bob Ross noted that the document link is broken. Randy Wolff added that the document was updated after our last teleconference during which we voted on two BIRDs. The document is available at the following link: http://www.eda.org/ibis/docs/ibis-version-change-strategy-v2p5.pdf IBISCHK5 BUG STATUS - BUG141: Wrong AMI_INTEGER_MIN Value in ami.h Bob Ross reported that the bug describes a mistake in the code in defining a minimum value. A better solution is to explicitly define the value so that the math library is not needed. Mike LaBonte asked if this only affected people with the source code or also compiled code. Bob thought this only affected the source code, specifically when compiled on old 32- bit Linux platforms. Bob proposed classifying the bug as moderate severity, low priority and open status. Mike moved to classify the bug as stated. Radek Biernacki seconded the motion. There were no objections. - BUG142: Mistake in TYPEDEF ENUM SMSPEC SUB in smspec.h Bob stated that this bug describes a typedef redefinition, and a variable name needs to be changed. This is a compilation issue similar to BUG141. Bob proposed classifying the bug as moderate severity, low priority and open status. Mike moved to classify the bug as stated. Randy Wolff seconded the motion. There were no objections. - BUG143: Missing and Misspelled Argument Names in ccomp.c Bob reported that this bug defines a compilation error caused by a misspelled variable name and a missing parameter when using a print function. Bob proposed classifying the bug as moderate severity, low priority and open status. Mike moved to classify the bug as stated. Radek seconded the motion. There were no objections. - BUG144: Wrong Keyword Position BUG B0122 Message Should be ERROR E0122 Message Bob stated that there is an error message that is not clear, printed as “PROGRAM BUG” instead of an error message. Mike noted that he thinks there is a syntax error where a keyword under [Model] occurs before Vinh, Vinl and C_comp subparameters are defined. Bob thought we should work with the parser developer to see if the message can be changed into an error message. Radek asked if the specification spells out ordering rules for the subparameters. Mike looked, but he couldn’t find any specific reference to this. Bob proposed classifying the bug as annoying severity, low priority and open status. Radek moved to classify the bug as stated. Randy seconded the motion. There were no objections. Bob brought up the list of open bugs. He plans to approach the parser developer about fixing the open bugs based on the current development agreement. NEW TECHNICAL ISSUES Walter Katz commented about the Interconnect task group. So far the group has worked on defining the interconnect modeling needs of the industry. He noted that at the next meeting, the task group will begin looking into detail at the EMD proposal. One thing to look at is how this document could be used to describe a package containing a single die. The document also should allow for modeling on-die interconnect and multi-die packages. David Banas asked about downgrading from Error to Warning the I-V and V-t mismatch check in ibischk. Arpad Muranyi described the reason for requiring the match between the two curves based on the test load as needed by software. David wondered what to do for AMI models. Walter commented that you could remove the V-t curves and rely on [Ramp] only. What is the purpose of using invalid V-t curves? David noted that the curves contain details that aren’t in [Ramp], and he doesn’t want to have V-t curves that require overclocking. Arpad noted that overclocking is still a problem, since every tool may have its own solution to overclocking, and this could lead to varying results between the simulators. Arpad also commented that IBIS 5.0 models with [Composite Current] tables cause more problems with overclocking due to the need for longer V-t curves that are time correlated to the I-t curves. Bob noted that any change to the parser will require a bug write-up proposing, for instance, new percentages of I-V and V-t mismatch for error and warning levels. NEXT MEETING The next IBIS Open Forum teleconference will be held March 15, 2013 from 8:00am to 10:00am US Pacific Time. Mike LaBonte moved to adjourn. Radek Biernacki seconded. There were no objections. ======================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax (916) 377-3788 michael.mirmak@intel.com Data Center Platform Applications Engineering Intel Corporation FM5-239 1900 Prairie City Rd., Folsom, CA 95630 VICE CHAIR: Lance Wang (978) 633-3388 lwang@iometh.com President/CEO, IO Methodology, Inc. PO Box 2099 Acton, MA 01720 SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475 rrwolff@micron.com SI Modeling Manager, Micron Technology, Inc. 8000 S. Federal Way Mail Stop: 01-711 Boise, ID 83707-0006 LIBRARIAN: Anders Ekholm (46) 10 714 27 58, Fax: (46) 8 757 23 40 ibis-librarian@eda.org Digital Modules Design, PDU Base Stations, Ericsson AB BU Network Färögatan 6 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden WEBMASTER: Mike LaBonte mikelabonte@eda.org IBIS-AMI Modeling Specialist, Signal Integrity Software 6 Clock Tower Place Maynard, MA 01754 POSTMASTER: Mike LaBonte mikelabonte@eda.org IBIS-AMI Modeling Specialist, Signal Integrity Software 6 Clock Tower Place Maynard, MA 01754 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the TechAmerica Legal Guides and TechAmerica Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either or both: IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org) IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-bug@eda.org To report ibischk parser BUGs as well as tschk2 parser BUGs. The BUG Report Form for ibischk resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/ibischk/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt The BUG Report Form for tschk2 resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/tschk_bugs/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/tschk_bugs/bugform.txt icm-bug@eda.org To report icmchk1 parser BUGs. The BUG Report Form resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/icm_bugs/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/icm_bugs/icm_bugform.txt To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page: http://www.eda.org/ibis Check the IBIS file directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results: http://www.eda.org/ibis/directory.html To create an account on the TechAmerica KAVI workspace, check out: http://workspace.techamerica.org/kwspub/join/ Other trademarks, brands and names are the property of their respective owners. IBIS – TECHAMERICA STANDARDS BALLOT VOTING STATUS I/O Buffer Information Specification Committee (IBIS) |Organization |Interest |Standar|Decembe|January|January|Februar| | |Category |ds |r 21, |11, |31, |y 22, | | | |Ballot |2012 |2013 |2013 |2013 | | | |Voting | | | | | | | |Status | | | | | |Agilent |User |Active |X |- |X |X | |Technologies | | | | | | | |Altera |Producer |Active |X |- |X |X | |ANSYS |User |Active |- |X |X |- | |Applied Simulation|User |Inactiv|- |- |X |- | |Technology | |e | | | | | |ARM |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Cadence Design |User |Active |- |X |X |- | |Systems | | | | | | | |Ericsson |Producer |Active |- |X |X |- | |Foxconn Technology|Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Group | |e | | | | | |Freescale |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |X |- | | | |e | | | | | |Huawei |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Technologies | |e | | | | | |IBM |Producer |Active |X |X |X |X | |Infineon |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Technologies AG | |e | | | | | |Intel Corp. |Producer |Active |X |X |X |- | |IO Methodology |User |Active |X |X |X |- | |LSI |Producer |Inactiv|X |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Maxim Integrated |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |X |- | |Products | |e | | | | | |Mentor Graphics |User |Active |X |X |X |X | |Micron Technology |Producer |Active |X |X |X |X | |Nokia Siemens |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Networks | |e | | | | | |QLogic |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |X |- | | | |e | | | | | |Signal Integrity |User |Active |X |X |X |X | |Software | | | | | | | |Synopsys |User |Inactiv|- |- |X |- | | | |e | | | | | |Teraspeed |General |Active |X |X |X |X | |Consulting |Interest | | | | | | |Texas Instruments |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Toshiba |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Xilinx |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |ZTE |User |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Zuken |User |Inactiv|- |- |X |- | | | |e | | | | | Criteria for Member in good standing: • Must attend two consecutive meetings to establish voting membership • Membership dues current • Must not miss two consecutive Meetings Interest categories associated with TechAmerica ballot voting are: • Users - Members that utilize electronic equipment to provide services to an end user. • Producers - Members that supply electronic equipment. • General Interest - Members are neither producers nor users. 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