IBIS Open Forum Minutes Meeting Date: June 28, 2013 Meeting Location: Teleconference VOTING MEMBERS AND 2013 PARTICIPANTS Agilent Radek Biernacki*, Pegah Alavi, Heidi Barnes, Fangyi Rao, Colin Warwick, Tarun Kalwani Altera David Banas*, Hsinho Wu ANSYS Luis Armenta, Ben Franklin, Dan Dvorscak, Steve Pytel Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui Cadence Design Systems Terry Jernberg, Joy Li, Yingxin Sun, Ambrish Varma, Kevin Yao, Brad Brim Ericsson Anders Ekholm, Martina Fiammengo Foxconn Technology Group (Sogo Hsu) IBM Greg Edlund, Adge Hawes*, Dale Becker Infineon Technologies AG (Christian Sporrer) Intel Corporation Michael Mirmak*, Mohammad Bapi, Stewart Gilbert, Ravindra Rudraraju IO Methodology Lance Wang* LSI Brian Burdick, Sarika Jain, Xingdong Dai Maxim Integrated Products Hassan Rafat, Mahbubul Bari, Ron Olisar Mentor Graphics Arpad Muranyi*, Ed Bartlett, Vladimir Dmitriev- Zdorov Micron Technology Randy Wolff* Signal Integrity Software Walter Katz*, Mike LaBonte*, Mike Steinberger, Todd Westerhoff Synopsys John Ellis, Ted Mido, Scott Wedge, Rinsha Reghunath Teraspeed Consulting Group Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino Toshiba (Yasumasa Kondo) Xilinx (Raymond Anderson) Zuken Masaud Raeisi, Reinhard Remmert, Michael Schaeder, Alfonso Gambuzza OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2013 ARM (Vipul Patel) Bayside Design Elliot Nahas Computer Simulation Technology Heiko Grubrich ECL Advantage Thomas Iddings Freescale Jon Burnett Granite River Labs Vamshi Kandalla, Miki Takahashi Hewlett-Packard Yongjin Choi, Ting Zhu Huawei Technologies (Jinjun Li) KEI Systems Shinichi Maeda Molex Davi Correia National Instruments Lee Mohrmann Nokia Siemens Networks GmbH (Eckhard Lenski) Nvidia Eric Hsu Qualcomm Scott Powers QLogic James Zhou TechAmerica (Chris Denham) Teradyne Raymond Yakura Texas Instruments (Pavani Jella) Université de Brest Mihai Telescu University of Illinois Tom Comberiate, José Schutt-Ainé, Xu Chen Vitesse Semiconductor Sirius Tsang ZTE (Huang Min) In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. UPCOMING MEETINGS The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Meeting Number Meeting Password July 19, 2013 205 475 958 IBIS For teleconference dial-in information, use the password at the following website: https://ciscosales.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?J=205475958 All teleconference meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM US Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting. When calling into the meeting, follow the prompts to enter the meeting ID. For new, local international dial-in numbers, please reference the bridge numbers provided by Cisco Systems at the following link: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/conferencing/index.html NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Michael Mirmak declared that a quorum was reached and the meeting could begin. CALL FOR PATENTS Michael Mirmak called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS 3.2, IBIS 4.2, IBIS 5.1, Touchstone 2.0 or ICM 1.1 specifications. No patents were declared. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND ARS Randy Wolff called for comments regarding the minutes of the June 7, 2013 IBIS Open Forum teleconference. The minutes were approved without changes. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. CALL FOR NEW ISSUES None. MEMBERSHIP STATUS AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported that we gained one member, so we have 21 members so far for the year. WEB PAGE AND MAILING LIST ADMINISTRATION Mike LaBonte reported that he updated the poster and membership roster pages. He also added a header link on the main page to the IBIS 6.0 documents. The board reviewed the Terms of Use document that Mike mentioned last meeting. This won’t be used like on other websites that force acceptance of terms of use before entering the website. It will just be linked somewhere on the site. Mike wasn’t sure how to handle its use related to the email lists. Michael Mirmak suggested checking with TechAmerica to see what they do on their website. Bob Ross added the he wants to change one provision to note that the IBIS Open Forum owns the IBIS logo. Michael stated that we should be in a good state if our Terms of Use are similar to TechAmerica’s. He asked Mike to send it to Chris Denham for review. Mike wasn’t sure that we could change the logo language given that we don’t have any legal standing on our own, so TechAmerica probably does own the copyright. He also mentioned the export restrictions language, stating that he doesn’t think we have anything on the site subject to restrictions, but we should keep the language in the Terms of Use document. Michael said the onus should be on the person accessing the website to comply with export restrictions. Mike mentioned the spreadsheet he started related to features of various bug tracking tools. He isn’t done filling out all the boxes, but he is working on it. Mike will send the spreadsheet to the list for feedback. Michael suggested asking for feedback on what features are useful to people. MODEL LIBRARY UPDATE No update. IBIS AFFILIATIONS Michael Mirmak noted that he is deferring this topic until the next meeting. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL ACTIVITIES - Conferences The 22nd IEEE Workshop on Electrical Performance of Electronic Packaging and Systems (EPEPS 2013) will be held October 27-30, 2013 in San Jose, California. There may be content related to IBIS modeling. More information is available at: http://epeps.ece.illinois.edu/ - Press Update No update. SUMMIT PLANNING AND STATUS - Asia Events Michael Mirmak reported that we are planning on a series of Summits in Asia in November. Lance Wang reported that November 15 for Shanghai in the Parkyard hotel is available at the same rate as last year. Michael is working on finding a hotel for the Taipei Summit. In Japan, we plan to have a half day summit in Yokohama on November 22nd. The Summit in Taipei will be held November 18th or 19th. Sponsorship opportunities for all upcoming IBIS summits are available, with sponsors receiving free mentions in the minutes, agenda, and other announcements. Contact the IBIS Board for further details. QUALITY TASK GROUP Mike LaBonte reported that the group had one meeting since the last Open Forum meeting. He and Bob finalized their approach for completing the spreadsheet of messages related to the ibischk parser. Assuming no major feedback, they will start working on a trimmed down table that can go into the IBIS documentation. The task group typically meets Tuesdays at 8:00 a.m. PT. The Quality Task Group checklist and other documentation can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/quality_wip/ ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY MODELING TASK GROUP Arpad Muranyi reported that the group is meeting regularly on Tuesdays at 12:00 p.m. PT. The group is currently discussing the backchannel and dependency table topics. Task group material can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/macromodel_wip/ INTERCONNECT TASK GROUP Michael Mirmak reported that the group is meeting regularly on Wednesdays at 8:00 a.m. PT, but did not hold a meeting this week. They had a discussion on how much restructuring of EMD is needed and also how packages, die and PCBs interact. The Si2 specification related to 3D structural modeling of interconnects was released this last week, so it must be discussed. The Si2 document is available through a registered login at: http://www.si2.org/openeda.si2.org/project/showfiles.php?group_id=86#p1 52 Walter Katz noted that this specification is an example of another model connection protocol that is putting comments into Spice files. He didn’t think it would change what is being developed in the EMD proposal. Walter noted he presented recently on what functionality we want in the on-die interconnect, and there are some fundamental questions to be answered such as use of EMD versus BIRD145 for on-die interconnect modeling. The task group documents can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/interconnect_wip/ EDITORIAL TASK GROUP Michael Mirmak reported that the group is starting to meet again to work on the IBIS 6.0 draft document. The first meeting is immediately after this Open Forum teleconference. Michael encouraged participation. The draft IBIS 6.0 document is available for review at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/ver6.0_wip/ NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES Bob Ross noted that all task groups are meeting next week, despite the 4th of July holiday. Michael Mirmak reported that on June 4, the Compact Modeling Council, which was a part of TechAmerica, formally joined the Si2 organization. They changed their name to the Compact Model Coalition. BIRD158.3: AMI TOUCHSTONE ANALOG BUFFER MODELS Michael Mirmak asked if the BIRD was being discussed further in the ATM task group meetings. Arpad Muranyi responded that it will probably be discussed further in the ATM meetings after some other topics have been discussed. Walter Katz moved to table discussion of the BIRD. Arpad Muranyi seconded the motion. There were no objections. BIRD125.1: MAKE IBIS-ISS AVAILABLE FOR IBIS PACKAGE MODELING Discussion was tabled. BIRD128: ALLOW AMI_PARAMETERS_OUT TO PASS AMI_PARAMETERS_IN DATA ON CALLS TO AMI_GETWAVE Discussion was tabled. BIRD145.3: CASCADING IBIS I/O BUFFERS WITH [EXTERNAL CIRCUIT]S USING THE [MODEL CALL] KEYWORD Discussion was tabled. BIRD147: BACK-CHANNEL SUPPORT Discussion was tabled. BIRD150: IBIS-AMI NEW RESERVED PARAMETERS FOR DEPENDENCY TABLES Discussion was tabled. BIRD155: NEW AMI API TO RESOLVE DEPENDENT MODEL PARAMETER Discussion was tabled. BIRD157: PARAMETERIZE [DRIVER SCHEDULE] Discussion was tabled. BIRD161.1: SUPPORTING INCOMPLETE AND BUFFER-ONLY [COMPONENT] DESCRIPTIONS Discussion was tabled. IBIS SPECIFICATION CHANGE STATUS Michael Mirmak shared the updated document. He received some comments that the status of BIRDs on the IBIS website is difficult to determine. He will look into linking this document at the top of the BIRDs webpage. The first page of the document listed the BIRDs being added to IBIS 6.0. All BIRDs except BIRD152 will require parser changes. The second page of the document showed the list of pending BIRDs. Most, if passed, will require parser changes. The document is available at the following link: http://www.eda.org/ibis/docs/ibis-version-change-strategy-v3p0.pdf NAMING CONVENTION FOR POST-6.0: IBIS VERSIONS Michael Mirmak noted that we have a version 6.0 being developed. There is a question about whether future versions of IBIS should continue the same numbering scheme or move to a date code similar to many other software releases. Radek Biernacki noted that the naming convention can’t be discussed without first discussing the parser fees and how they will be handled. Michael clarified that, currently, once you pay for a parser license, minor releases are free. Moving to a 6-month release schedule requires a new policy. Radek felt we should start looking at the current financial status of the parser development to see how much money may be required each year to pay for parser updates. He felt a yearly payment might be feasible. Michael asked for Bob Ross to put together this information for review, looking at income versus development costs for the parser on a year by year basis. Bob noted that money trickles in over the years, and some years we pre-paid for development. Other years, money was lost due to financial rules of our previous parent organizations. Michael will add an agenda topic to discuss the parser financial information in the next Open Forum teleconference. IBISCHK5 PARSER AND BUG STATUS Two potential BUGs were discussed in the last three weeks. One was a compilation issue and one had an easy workaround. Bob held off discussing a release of the parser until these BUGs were fully looked at. BUG145 and 146 are open, so Bob will ask the parser developer to issue a new release. With this release, all open bugs will be fixed. V-T TABLES AND OVERCLOCKING IN IBIS-AMI MODELS David Banas discussed how the parser flags errors if there are large mismatches between the I-V and V-t table data related to DC switching levels. To avoid overclocking issues, the V-t tables must be kept shorter than a bit time. David showed a shelf in the V-t curve of his SerDes Tx that occurs near the center of the switching edge. Walter Katz thought this might be a problem only if the driver is reaching full saturation. David looked to see if the shelf occurred when the driver does not reach full saturation. With the shelf, you get a strange impulse response that can’t be represented using a [Ramp]-only model. When driving at 12.5Gbps, the shelf still exists, but it is less pronounced. The “double humped” impulse response is still present but much less pronounced. Walter noted that the frequency content in the small ripple in the impulse response would have high frequency content at about 100GHz. David clarified for Bob Ross that the load is just a standard load on the Tx for V-t curve characterization, not including a package or channel. David performed simulations using his original V-t curves that were about 2 bit times long. With these long V-t curves, the model passed the parser. Results for two simulators passed his test, meaning that they didn’t exhibit gross problems due to overclocking. He noted that the follow-up question for EDA vendors is that for the simulation performed post V-t curve trimming, how good of a job did they do to make sure the best part of the edge is used. Radek Biernacki noted that it depends on the waveform and the level of overclocking required. Radek didn’t feel that initial delay should necessarily be removed. Arpad noted that he uses a simulator that allows the user to specify how trimming of the initial delay and end of the V-t waveform are handled. Walter noted that EDA tools have to take their best shot at how to handle waveforms that haven’t settled to their final values. Arpad questioned if there was some data that could be extracted from the Spice model and put into IBIS to help with overclocking. David asked if the weird impulse response could be captured in Walter’s on- die S-parameter modeling approach. Walter felt that once you include channel losses, the characteristic won’t make a difference to the final simulation. Walter asked David to do further simulations using a channel with15-20dB loss at the Nyquist frequency. Radek also asked David to look at removing the initial delay in the V-t curves to see if it made a difference. David’s presentation is available at the following link: http://www.eda.org/ibis/docs/meetings/051713/banas.pdf NEW TECHNICAL ISSUES None. NEXT MEETING The next IBIS Open Forum teleconference will be held July 19, 2013 from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. US Pacific Time. David Banas moved to adjourn. Radek Biernacki seconded the motion. There were no objections. ======================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax (916) 377-3788 michael.mirmak@intel.com Data Center Platform Applications Engineering Intel Corporation FM5-239 1900 Prairie City Rd., Folsom, CA 95630 VICE CHAIR: Lance Wang (978) 633-3388 lwang@iometh.com President/CEO, IO Methodology, Inc. PO Box 2099 Acton, MA 01720 SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475 rrwolff@micron.com SI Modeling Manager, Micron Technology, Inc. 8000 S. Federal Way Mail Stop: 01-711 Boise, ID 83707-0006 LIBRARIAN: Anders Ekholm (46) 10 714 27 58, Fax: (46) 8 757 23 40 ibis-librarian@eda.org Digital Modules Design, PDU Base Stations, Ericsson AB BU Network Färögatan 6 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden WEBMASTER: Mike LaBonte mikelabonte@eda.org IBIS-AMI Modeling Specialist, Signal Integrity Software 6 Clock Tower Place Maynard, MA 01754 POSTMASTER: Mike LaBonte mikelabonte@eda.org IBIS-AMI Modeling Specialist, Signal Integrity Software 6 Clock Tower Place Maynard, MA 01754 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the TechAmerica Legal Guides and TechAmerica Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either or both: IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org) IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-bug@eda.org To report ibischk parser BUGs as well as tschk2 parser BUGs. The BUG Report Form for ibischk resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/ibischk/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt The BUG Report Form for tschk2 resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/tschk_bugs/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/tschk_bugs/bugform.txt icm-bug@eda.org To report icmchk1 parser BUGs. The BUG Report Form resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/icm_bugs/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/icm_bugs/icm_bugform.txt To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page: http://www.eda.org/ibis Check the IBIS file directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results: http://www.eda.org/ibis/directory.html To create an account on the TechAmerica KAVI workspace, check out: http://workspace.techamerica.org/kwspub/join/ Other trademarks, brands and names are the property of their respective owners. IBIS – TECHAMERICA STANDARDS BALLOT VOTING STATUS I/O Buffer Information Specification Committee (IBIS) |Organization |Interest |Standar|May 15,|May 17,|June 7,|June | | |Category |ds |2013 |2013 |2013 |28, | | | |Ballot | | | |2013 | | | |Voting | | | | | | | |Status | | | | | |Agilent |User |Active |- |X |X |X | |Technologies | | | | | | | |Altera |Producer |Active |- |- |X |X | |ANSYS |User |Active |X |X |X |- | |Applied Simulation|User |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Technology | |e | | | | | |Cadence Design |User |Active |- |X |X |- | |Systems | | | | | | | |Ericsson |Producer |Inactiv|X |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Foxconn Technology|Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Group | |e | | | | | |IBM |Producer |Active |X |X |X |X | |Infineon |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Technologies AG | |e | | | | | |Intel Corp. |Producer |Active |- |X |X |X | |IO Methodology |User |Active |X |- |X |X | |LSI |Producer |Active |- |X |X |- | |Maxim Integrated |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |X |- | |Products | |e | | | | | |Mentor Graphics |User |Active |- |X |X |X | |Micron Technology |Producer |Active |X |- |X |X | |Signal Integrity |User |Active |- |X |X |X | |Software | | | | | | | |Synopsys |User |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Teraspeed |General |Active |- |X |X |X | |Consulting |Interest | | | | | | |Toshiba |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Xilinx |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Zuken |User |Inactiv|X |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | Criteria for Member in good standing: • Must attend two consecutive meetings to establish voting membership • Membership dues current • Must not miss two consecutive Meetings Interest categories associated with TechAmerica ballot voting are: • Users - Members that utilize electronic equipment to provide services to an end user. • Producers - Members that supply electronic equipment. • General Interest - Members are neither producers nor users. This category includes, but is not limited to, Government, regulatory agencies (state and federal), researchers, other organizations and associations, and/or consumers.