IBIS Open Forum Minutes Meeting Date: October 11, 2013 Meeting Location: Teleconference VOTING MEMBERS AND 2013 PARTICIPANTS Agilent Radek Biernacki*, Pegah Alavi, Heidi Barnes, Fangyi Rao*, Colin Warwick, Tarun Kalwani, Ming Yan Altera David Banas*, Hsinho Wu ANSYS [Luis Armenta], Ben Franklin, Dan Dvorscak, Steve Pytel Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui Cadence Design Systems [Terry Jernberg], Joy Li, Yingxin Sun, Ambrish Varma, Kevin Yao, Brad Brim* Ericsson Anders Ekholm, Martina Fiammengo Foxconn Technology Group (Sogo Hsu) IBM Greg Edlund, Adge Hawes, Dale Becker Infineon Technologies AG (Christian Sporrer) Intel Corporation Michael Mirmak*, Mohammad Bapi, Stewart Gilbert, Ravindra Rudraraju IO Methodology Lance Wang* LSI Brian Burdick*, Sarika Jain, Xingdong Dai Maxim Integrated Products Hassan Rafat, Mahbubul Bari, Ron Olisar Mentor Graphics Arpad Muranyi*, Ed Bartlett, Vladimir Dmitriev- Zdorov Micron Technology Randy Wolff* Signal Integrity Software Walter Katz*, Mike LaBonte*, Mike Steinberger, Todd Westerhoff Synopsys John Ellis, Ted Mido, Scott Wedge, Rinsha Reghunath Teraspeed Consulting Group Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino Toshiba (Yasumasa Kondo) Xilinx (Raymond Anderson) Zuken Masaud Raeisi, Reinhard Remmert, Michael Schaeder, Alfonso Gambuzza OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2013 Bayside Design Elliot Nahas Computer Simulation Technology Heiko Grubrich ECL Advantage Thomas Iddings Freescale Jon Burnett Granite River Labs Vamshi Kandalla, Miki Takahashi Hewlett-Packard Yongjin Choi, Ting Zhu KEI Systems Shinichi Maeda Molex Davi Correia National Instruments Lee Mohrmann Nvidia Eric Hsu Qualcomm Scott Powers QLogic James Zhou SAE (Chris Denham) TechAmerica [Chris Denham] Teradyne Raymond Yakura Université de Brest Mihai Telescu University of Illinois Tom Comberiate, José Schutt-Ainé, Xu Chen Vitesse Semiconductor Sirius Tsang In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. UPCOMING MEETINGS The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Meeting Number Meeting Password November 1, 2013 205 475 958 IBIS November 15, 2013 Asian IBIS Summit (Shanghai) – no teleconference November 19, 2013 Asian IBIS Summit (Taipei) – no teleconference November 22, 2013 Asian IBIS Summit (Yokohama) – no teleconference For teleconference dial-in information, use the password at the following website: https://ciscosales.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?J=205475958 All teleconference meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM US Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting. When calling into the meeting, follow the prompts to enter the meeting ID. For new, local international dial-in numbers, please reference the bridge numbers provided by Cisco Systems at the following link: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/conferencing/index.html NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Randy Wolff declared that a quorum was reached and the meeting could begin. CALL FOR PATENTS Michael Mirmak called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS 3.2, IBIS 4.2, IBIS 5.1, IBIS 6.0, Touchstone 2.0 or ICM 1.1 specifications. No patents were declared. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND ARS Randy Wolff called for comments regarding the minutes of the September 20, 2013 IBIS Open Forum teleconference. The minutes were approved without changes. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. CALL FOR NEW ISSUES None. MEMBERSHIP STATUS AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross reported no change in membership, with 21 members currently. We are awaiting payment of one company. All outstanding invoices relate to Asian Summit funding. WEB PAGE AND MAILING LIST ADMINISTRATION Mike LaBonte reported more activity on the mailing list with drops and adds. Adjustments to the web pages have been made for IBIS 6.0 approval. Relating to a project to switch to a more modern PHP platform, Mike has been looking at Mantis and wiki pages and is putting together a plan to switch us to use these tools. Changes will be incremental. MODEL LIBRARY UPDATE No update. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL ACTIVITIES - Conferences The 22nd IEEE Workshop on Electrical Performance of Electronic Packaging and Systems (EPEPS 2013) will be held October 27-30, 2013 in San Jose, California. There will be a paper presented on X-parameters, a topic covered in recent IBIS Summits. More information is available at: http://epeps.ece.illinois.edu/ The IEEE Standards Association Symposium on EDA Interoperability will be held Thursday, October 24, 2013 at TechMart in Santa Clara, CA. Some topics may relate to IBIS. More information is available at: http://standards.ieee.org/email/2013_09_ieeesa_eda_symposium_web.html - Press Update None. Michael Mirmak reported that IEEE DASC has a few things ongoing. Their next meeting is Thursday, October 17, 2013. Items to be discussed including packaging and board standards that come from JEITA, and a P2401 committee was recently approved to work on this. This group’s work may have a direct relationship to work ongoing in the Interconnect task group. In DASC, there is also a standardization effort to pull SystemC-AMS into a formal working group. SUMMIT PLANNING AND STATUS - Asia Events Bob Ross reported that sponsors for the events are closing out payments. Presentations are being reviewed, but more presentations are desired. The Yokohama Summit will have a full program. We also need to encourage attendance. Michael Mirmak noted dates of the Summits are November 15 in Shanghai, November 19 in Taipei and November 22 in Yokohama. Sponsors of the Shanghai event include Huawei as the major sponsor and cosponsors including Agilent, ANSYS, Cadence, Intel, IO Methodology and Synopsys. For the Taipei event, ANSYS is the major sponsor and cosponsors include Cadence, Intel, IO Methodology and Synopsys. For the Yokohama event, JEITA and the IBIS Open Forum are major sponsors and cosponsors include ANSYS, Cadence, Mentor Graphics and Zuken. Lance Wang encouraged IBIS member companies to submit presentations for the Summits. - DesignCon 2014 Michael reported he has been in contact with UBM and contracts are being negotiated. The Summit is currently scheduled on Thursday, January 30, 2014. Brad Brim pointed out that the Summit is scheduled over the top of the second expo day, as the DesignCon schedule has shifted by one day this year. Bob proposed shifting the Summit to Friday, January 31, 2014. There were no objections to this. Sponsorship opportunities for all upcoming IBIS summits are available, with sponsors receiving free mentions in the minutes, agenda, and other announcements. Contact the IBIS Board for further details. QUALITY TASK GROUP Mike LaBonte reported that group is continuing to meet and discuss ibischk and the parser source code that goes with it. They talked about considering different parser funding models and new checks that might be appropriate now that IBIS 6.0 is approved. For Tuesdays’ agenda, they plan to talk about requirements for use of uppercase and lowercase file names. The group has decided to go back to holding meetings weekly on Tuesdays at 8:00 a.m. PT. The Quality Task Group checklist and other documentation can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/quality_wip/ ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY MODELING TASK GROUP Arpad Muranyi reported that the group is meeting regularly on Tuesdays at 12:00 p.m. PT. They are trying to make a decision between BIRD125/145 proposals and EMD-like syntax proposals for package modeling. He is hoping to reach a conclusion soon so the group can begin to focus on developing further the best proposal. Arpad encouraged involvement from IC vendors. Michael Mirmak asked what version of the specification the new package modeling is targeted for. Arpad responded that this has not been discussed. Task group material can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/macromodel_wip/ INTERCONNECT TASK GROUP Arpad Muranyi reported that the task group meetings have been suspended temporarily until further notice. He asked Michael Mirmak to take back leadership of the task group. Michael asked if we want to keep the interconnect topic in the ATM meeting or shift it back to the Interconnect task group. Arpad noted that we were not getting as good attendance in the Interconnect meeting as we are in the ATM meeting. Radek Biernacki noted that it is probably best to keep the discussions in the ATM meeting due to the better attendance. Michael added there are other topics that could be discussed in the Interconnect task group, so he noted to watch for announcements about upcoming meetings. One topic is the LSI PCB standard being discussed in DASC. The task group documents can be found at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/interconnect_wip/ EDITORIAL TASK GROUP Arpad Muranyi reported that the task group has not met recently, and he suggested this item be removed from the agenda. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES None. BIRD150: IBIS-AMI NEW RESERVED PARAMETERS FOR DEPENDENCY TABLES Walter Katz reported that, in general, for BIRD150 and BIRD155, in both cases AMI parameters are functions of other AMI parameters. This is one class of dependencies. In the other case the knobs that the user can control determine characteristics of the driver. Both BIRDs allow for defining independent and dependent parameters. BIRD150 defines tables of values. BIRD155 identifies two limitations of BIRD150. One is the mapping of parameters is limited. In BIRD155 it becomes an input to the DLL. Secondly, by putting control in the DLL the dependencies can have some IP protection. Implementation of BIRD155 has one deficiency – it uses AMI parameter Usage and adds a new Usage Dep. The problem he sees is there are models written using the BIRD150 mechanism. BIRD155 will take away some existing functionality from what is available in BIRD150. If dependency is done in a resolved DLL, he would like to see a new leaf outside of Usage instead of adding Dep to the Usage leaf. Arpad Muranyi noted he was surprised that the issue came up since he thought it was resolved. Radek Biernacki added that he thought Walter just wanted his position on record, but he was not objecting to the current language in BIRD155. Walter responded that he had recorded his objection in the ATM meeting and he just wanted his objection on record in the Open Forum meeting. He added that he has not heard much input from IC vendors, so he wanted to give another opportunity to IC vendors to respond. Radek noted that he felt the time for further feedback has passed. Bob Ross added he thought the BIRD155 proposal was clean and non- complicated. Adding a new leaf would make the syntax more complicated. Radek noted he did not have any material prepared to show at this time. He had looked into Walter’s suggestion before, but he saw Usage combinations that became quite complicated to define and manage. Walter added that if one used a new leaf independent of Usage then dependent parameters could be inputs to the AMI_Init function. If the DLL wanted to know the values of the dependent parameters, it could re-run the resolve code to determine the values. It does make writing of AMI_Init a little more complicated. Also, for example with a tap coefficient, a table could determine initial values and maybe the user would specify it and the AMI_GetWave function could output this parameter evaluated from the dependency table and make it visible to the user. David Banas asked if the headache is for dealing with dynamic parameters. Walter responded that yes, adaptive parameters may be difficult to deal with, and a model writer may have to duplicate some resolve dependency code in the AMI_Init function. There are workarounds to the problems, but IC vendors may find difficulties with BIRD155. David Banas moved to vote on BIRD150. Radek Biernacki seconded the motion. Bob motioned to use the language “accept”, “reject”, or “abstain” for the vote. The BIRD was rejected with the following vote tally: Agilent – reject Altera – reject Cadence – reject Intel – reject IO Methodology – reject LSI – accept Mentor – reject Micron – reject SiSoft – accept Teraspeed – reject BIRD155.2: NEW AMI API TO RESOLVE DEPENDENT MODEL PARAMETER David Banas moved to vote on acceptance of BIRD155.2 for inclusion in the next version of the IBIS specification. Bob Ross seconded the motion. The vote passed with the following vote tally: Agilent – yes Altera – yes Cadence – yes Intel – yes IO Methodology – yes LSI – abstain Mentor – yes Micron – yes SiSoft – yes Teraspeed – yes BIRD125.1: MAKE IBIS-ISS AVAILABLE FOR IBIS PACKAGE MODELING Discussion was tabled. BIRD128: ALLOW AMI_PARAMETERS_OUT TO PASS AMI_PARAMETERS_IN DATA ON CALLS TO AMI_GETWAVE Discussion was tabled. BIRD145.3: CASCADING IBIS I/O BUFFERS WITH [EXTERNAL CIRCUIT]S USING THE [MODEL CALL] KEYWORD Discussion was tabled. BIRD147: BACK-CHANNEL SUPPORT Discussion was tabled. BIRD157: PARAMETERIZE [DRIVER SCHEDULE] Discussion was tabled. BIRD158.3: AMI TOUCHSTONE ANALOG BUFFER MODELS Discussion was tabled. BIRD161.1: SUPPORTING INCOMPLETE AND BUFFER-ONLY [COMPONENT] DESCRIPTIONS Discussion was tabled. IBISCHK5 PARSER AND BUG STATUS Bob Ross reported a new BUG147 was discovered. Mike LaBonte described the bug. A specific number of lines of comments in the AMI file cause the parser to crash. The test case is very unique, so probability of failure is low. There was some confusion on the meaning of fatal, so Mike LaBonte took the AR to discuss and define the meanings of the classifications in the Quality task group. The bug was classified as Severe severity, Medium priority and Open status. Michael Mirmak noted that BUG137 was filed on ibischk 5.1.0, but one warning from BUG137 has shown back up in the 5.1.4 source code compilation. Bob suggested filing a new bug to document the issue. Fangyi Rao noted that when using the new 5.1 parser on 5.0 models, it will fail the 5.0 AMI model if Value and Default both exist. Michael noted that an existing policy decision says that major specification releases determine the parsing rules, so sub-versions of a major release are not uniquely checked. For example, 4.0 models are checked against 4.2 rules. This was not a problem until deprecation of functionality was added in 5.1 for AMI 5.0 models. Walter Katz felt that the problem is that 5.1 should have been a major release (6.0) since it changed so much about 5.0 AMI model rules. Bob noted that 5.0 was an ambiguous specification that was tightened up with limiting rules that made sense. The parser is written against the documented changes in the 5.1 specification. We have the option of retaining older features if we document them. David Banas asked about having the parser check against unique IBIS subversions. Mike LaBonte noted that this would require multiple executables to be released with a single parser release. Walter brought up another issue. The specification is not clear about rules of use of uppercase and lowercase letters on file names. The parser makes use of uppercase letters in AMI and DLL file names an error, and he did not agree with this behavior. Michael suggested Walter file a bug to force further discussion. IBISCHK6 PARSER PLANNING Michael Mirmak noted that discussion should be deferred pending further information from SAE. NEW TECHNICAL ISSUES Michael Mirmak reported that he received an email from UBM stating that the January 31, 2014 date for the DesignCon IBIS Summit was ok. He also noted that a PAR has been passed for SystemC-AMS to be called P1666.1, and work will commence in a DASC working group. NEXT MEETING The next IBIS Open Forum teleconference will be held November 1, 2013 from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. US Pacific Time. The Asian IBIS Summit in Shanghai will be held November 15, 2013. The Asian IBIS Summit in Taipei will be held November 19, 2013. The Asian IBIS Summit in Yokohama will be held November 22, 2013. No teleconferences will be available for the Summit meetings. The following IBIS Open Forum meeting is tentatively scheduled for December 6, 2013. David Banas moved to adjourn. Radek Biernacki seconded the motion. There were no objections. ======================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax (916) 377-3788 michael.mirmak@intel.com Data Center Platform Applications Engineering Intel Corporation FM5-239 1900 Prairie City Rd., Folsom, CA 95630 VICE CHAIR: Lance Wang (978) 633-3388 lwang@iometh.com President/CEO, IO Methodology, Inc. PO Box 2099 Acton, MA 01720 SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475 rrwolff@micron.com SI Modeling Manager, Micron Technology, Inc. 8000 S. Federal Way Mail Stop: 01-711 Boise, ID 83707-0006 LIBRARIAN: Anders Ekholm (46) 10 714 27 58, Fax: (46) 8 757 23 40 ibis-librarian@eda.org Digital Modules Design, PDU Base Stations, Ericsson AB BU Network Färögatan 6 164 80 Stockholm, Sweden WEBMASTER: Mike LaBonte mikelabonte@eda.org IBIS-AMI Modeling Specialist, Signal Integrity Software 6 Clock Tower Place Maynard, MA 01754 POSTMASTER: Mike LaBonte mikelabonte@eda.org IBIS-AMI Modeling Specialist, Signal Integrity Software 6 Clock Tower Place Maynard, MA 01754 This meeting was conducted in accordance with ANSI guidance. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either or both: IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org) IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-bug@eda.org To report ibischk parser BUGs as well as tschk2 parser BUGs. The BUG Report Form for ibischk resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/ibischk/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt The BUG Report Form for tschk2 resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/tschk_bugs/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/tschk_bugs/bugform.txt icm-bug@eda.org To report icmchk1 parser BUGs. The BUG Report Form resides along with reported BUGs at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/icm_bugs/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/icm_bugs/icm_bugform.txt To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside at: http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt http://www.eda.org/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page: http://www.eda.org/ibis Check the IBIS file directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results: http://www.eda.org/ibis/directory.html Other trademarks, brands and names are the property of their respective owners. IBIS – SAE STANDARDS BALLOT VOTING STATUS I/O Buffer Information Specification Committee (IBIS) |Organization |Interest |Standar|August |August |Septemb|October| | |Category |ds |9, 2013|30, |er 20, |11, | | | |Ballot | |2013 |2013 |2013 | | | |Voting | | | | | | | |Status | | | | | |Agilent |User |Active |X |X |X |X | |Technologies | | | | | | | |Altera |Producer |Inactiv|X |- |- |X | | | |e | | | | | |ANSYS |User |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Applied Simulation|User |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Technology | |e | | | | | |Cadence Design |User |Active |- |X |X |X | |Systems | | | | | | | |Ericsson |Producer |Inactiv|- |X |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Foxconn Technology|Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Group | |e | | | | | |IBM |Producer |Inactiv|X |X |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Infineon |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Technologies AG | |e | | | | | |Intel Corp. |Producer |Active |X |X |X |X | |IO Methodology |User |Active |- |- |X |X | |LSI |Producer |Active |X |X |X |X | |Maxim Integrated |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | |Products | |e | | | | | |Mentor Graphics |User |Active |X |X |X |X | |Micron Technology |Producer |Active |X |- |X |X | |Signal Integrity |User |Active |X |X |X |X | |Software | | | | | | | |Synopsys |User |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Teraspeed |General |Active |X |X |X |X | |Consulting |Interest | | | | | | |Toshiba |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Xilinx |Producer |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | |Zuken |User |Inactiv|- |- |- |- | | | |e | | | | | Criteria for Member in good standing: • Must attend two consecutive meetings to establish voting membership • Membership dues current • Must not miss two consecutive Meetings Interest categories associated with SAE ballot voting are: • Users - Members that utilize electronic equipment to provide services to an end user. • Producers - Members that supply electronic equipment. • General Interest - Members are neither producers nor users. This category includes, but is not limited to, Government, regulatory agencies (state and federal), researchers, other organizations and associations, and/or consumers.