DATE: 10/12/04 SUBJECT: October 4, 2004 EIA IBIS Open Forum Summit Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2004 PARTICIPANTS Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui Cadence Design Systems C. Kumar, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang* Cisco Systems Sergio Camerlo, Syed Huq*, Mike LaBonte*, Stan Penner, Todd Westerhoff Freescale (Jon Burnett) Hitachi ULSI Systems Kazuyoshi Shoji*, Ryuichi Ikematsu* Huawei (Jiang Xiang Zhong) IBM (Pravin Patel) Intel Corporation David Keates, Peter T. Larsen Wilson Leung, Michael Mirmak*, Arpad Muranyi*, Steve Peterson LSI Logic Frank Gasparik Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh, Weston Beal, Ian Dodd, Gary Pratt, Eric Rongere, Stephane Rousseau Micron Technology Paul Gregory, Randy Wolff NEC Electric Corporation Takeshi Watanabe Samtec Otto Bennig Siemens AG Eckhard Lenski, Manfred Maurer Siemens Medical (Acuson) David Lieby Signal Integrity Software Robert Haller*, Barry Katz Sigrity Raymond Chen, Jiayuan Fang Synopsys Warren Wong. Edmund Cheng Texas Instruments Jean Claude Perrin, Hector Torres Teraspeed Consulting Group Tom Dagostino, Scott McMorrow, Bob Ross* Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey Zuken (& Incases) Ralf Bruening, Caroline Legendre, Laetitia Simonian OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2004: Actel Prabhu Mohan Alcatel Jean-Pierre Bouthemy Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken), [Hank Campbell] Apache Design Yu Liu Bayside Design Daniel Lambalot, Kevin Roselle Bee Technologies Tsuyoshi Horigome Conexant Garry Felker Cortina Systems Robert Badal Cypress Semiconductor Tessa Trethewey EADS Olivier Maurice Edality Rob te Nijenhuis EFM Ekkehard Miersch Extreme Networks Lin Shen Fraunhofer IZM Ege Engin GEIA (Chris Denham) Green Streak Programs Lynne Green Independent Kelly Green, Kim Helliwell, Jon Powell INSA Etienne Sicard Interface Technologies Dan Waterloo KAW/USA Shinichi Maeda* The MathWorks Colin Warwick, Robert Zeng Netlogic Microsystems Eric Hsu North Carolina State Univ. Paul Franzon, Ambrish Varma North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda*, Michael Baxter* Northrup Grumman Dan Crain, Adrianna Zammit Politecnico di Torino Igor Stievano Samsung Il Seong Silverback Systems Gil Gafni Sintecs BV Hans Klos In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. UPCOMING MEETINGS The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Telephone Number Bridge # Passcode October 8, 2004 1-916-356-2663 4 446-0477 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM US Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting. When calling into the meeting, provide the bridge number and passcode at the automated prompts. If asked by an operator, please request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak. For international dial-in numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. --------------------------------MINUTES----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM The IBIS Open Forum Summit was held in Westborough, Massachusetts at the offices of North East Systems Associates during the PCB East Conference. Eleven participants from eight organizations attended. The notes below capture some of the content and discussions. The meeting presentations and other documents are uploaded at: http://www.ibis-information.org/summits/oct04/ Michael Mirmak opened the meeting. Michael thanked Kathy Breda for her support in physically hosting the summit at NESA and making luncheon and refreshment arrangements. He also singled out Syed Huq for his assistance with calls for papers, setting the agenda, and also establishing an experimental web-based conference link. Additionally, thanks were given to Mike LaBonte of Cisco Systems for providing a video projector. Finally, Michael thanked the presenters and participants for attending. Michael asked everyone in the room to introduce themselves. The group was well-attended by a cross-section of the IBIS community, including semiconductor vendors, service providers, EDA tool vendors, and IBIS users. Michael asked if there were any new issues or discussion items to add to the agenda. No issues were raised. PRESENTATIONS AND DISCUSSION TOPICS The rest of the meeting consisted of presentations and discussions. These notes capture some of the content and discussion. More details are available in the documents uploaded to the location noted above. IBIS CHAIR'S REPORT AND ROADMAP UPDATE Michael Mirmak, Intel Corporation Michael Mirmak delivered an overview of the current state of the IBIS Open Forum and its activities. An IBIS 4.1 parser is under development, with a beta version having just been delivered to licensees. IBIS 4.2 changes are under consideration, while ANSI reballoting has begun for IBIS 3.2. ICM 1.0 has been incorporated into at least one major EDA tool. A JEITA-sponsored IBIS Summit in Tokyo in 2005 continues to be planned. The IBIS web site has been revised with an updated model library and a new structure to the front page. Michael then summarized some of the difficulties facing the organization. Membership renewals continue to trend behind expectations, with at least four (4) additional memberships needed to ensure financial solvency by the end of the year. Further, parser licenses only cover two of three contracted payments. The IBIS 4.1 parser would therefore be put on-hold if sufficient payments are not received this year. Michael also presented an updated timeline for IBIS development. Based on current trends, an ICM 1.1 proposal will be available in January 2005. An IBIS 4.2 proposal will be ready for Open Forum consideration within two months afterward. Both are under active consideration for ANSI balloting. Finally, Michael thanked the current officers, members, and parser licensees for their continued support toward IBIS over the past year. USING THE IBIS QUALITY CHECKLIST Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems Mike LaBonte presented a brief overview of the IBIS Quality Checklist which accompanies the IBIS Quality Document and which can be used to increase confidence in IBIS model data. The stated purpose of both the Committee and the Checklist is to "help people make better IBIS files." The Checklist itself only contains one-line statements about individual aspects of the model. The Quality Document and the IBIS specification are required to provide full details. Mike advised users to increase the model version to the highest allowed by their parsing software before conducting Quality checks. All IBIS files should pass level 0 checks, as these correspond to the syntax analyzed by the IBIS parser. Higher checking levels can only be established through correlation to silicon data or circuit design elements. John Angulo suggested that Model Review customers be told that the Quality documents are used to evaluate incoming models. Michael Mirmak accepted the AR to add a link to the Model Review Committee portion of the IBIS website with mentions of the Quality Committee documents. Arpad Muranyi inquired about plans for AMS quality checks. Mike responded that correlation to SPICE could certainly be checked. MULTI-ELEMENT C_COMP MODELING Michael Mirmak, Intel Corporation Michael Mirmak delivered a continuation of his April talk on C_comp extraction from V-T curves of differential buffers featuring pre-emphasis. Using a baseline model from Luca Giacotto and Arpad Muranyi, Michael matched the single-ended frequency-domain capacitive behavior of the example differential buffer by using a third-order RC filter. He presented both a general analytic solution to the "capacitor-less" V-T curve problem and a set of V-T curves calculated using a SPICE simulator. Finally, Michael demonstrated how two of these single-ended circuits can be linked with a small resistance to create a model which matches the frequency- domain differential behavior of the original model. Robert Haller suggested that several treatises exist on-line regarding creation of generalized models of frequency-domain behaviors using minimal numbers of elements. CAN IBIS ACCURATELY MODEL SSO? Robert Haller, Signal Integrity Software, Inc. (SiSoft) Robert Haller summarized the current approach to modeling SSO using both SPICE tools and IBIS methods and compared the results of simulators using both model types. SSO estimates are established by EDA simulation tools for IBIS primarily through "guesses" as to the amount of crossover or crowbar current in the driver. Tools embed these approximations as there is no way from only at-pin or at-pad data to calculate the current distribution in the driver. As driver speeds increase, crowbar currents and therefore SSO will increase. Decoupling is therefore critical and should be added to any SSO simulation using IBIS. The key issue for the future of IBIS is how to represent this crossover data accurately as part of IBIS models. Mike LaBonte suggested that IMIC might be a significant help in modeling the power delivery network associated with drivers. Arpad Muranyi mentioned that issues with C_comp distribution in the current SPICE-based IBIS algorithms might give inaccurate results even with IMIC. Robert added that SSO is not yet part of the IBIS Quality documentation, but a "level 3" could be added to cover EMI and SSO issues. Bob Ross suggested that any data for SSO estimation should be taken under loaded conditions. Syed Huq stated that Cisco will present a draft BIRD to address power/ground issues on buffers and the core before the next Futures Committee meeting. AD HOC PRESENTATIONS AND DISCUSSIONS A brief discussion was held on the state of AMS adoption in the industry. At present, most major tool vendors were expressing interest in AMS modeling, but they were most likely to use or generate AMS table data from SPICE models. Most model users still were more likely to obtain SPICE models than even IBIS models from customers. Interest has even been expressed in encrypted AMS, though this would present the same issues as encrypted SPICE does today. Mike LaBonte commented that IBIS still provides more information, in addition to faster simulation times, on system and component conditions than SPICE models do. NEXT MEETING The next IBIS Open Forum meetings will be held October 8, 2004 and October 29, 2004 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM US Pacific Time. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax: (916) 377-1046 michael.mirmak@intel.com Senior Analog Engineer, Intel Corporation FM6-45 1900 Prairie City Rd. Folsom, CA 95630 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475 rrwolff@micron.com Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc. 8000 S. Federal Way Mail Stop: 1-711 Boise, ID 83707-0006 LIBRARIAN: Lance Wang (978) 262-6685, Fax: (978) 262-6363 lwang@cadence.com Senior Member, Technical Staff, Cadence Design Systems, Inc. 270 Billerica Road Chelmsford, CA 01824 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: Bob Ross (503) 246-8048, Fax : (503) 239-4400 bob@teraspeed.com Staff Scientist, Teraspeed Consulting Group 10238 SW Lancaster Road Portland, OR 97219 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the GEIA Legal Guides and GEIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-bug@eda.org To report ibischk parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibis_bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. icm-bug@eda.org To report icmchk1 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/icm_bugs/icm_bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the IBIS file directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/directory.html All eda.org documents can be accessed using a mirror: http://www.ibis-information.org Note that the "pub/ibis" text should be removed from directory names when this URL mirror is used. * Other trademarks, brands and names are the property of their respective owners.