[IBIS-Users] Re: [IBIS] RE: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments: CrowdsourceIBIS model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?

Scott,

Doesn't that defeat one of the objective of IBIS?

Regards,

AR

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 6, 2010, at 1:23 PM, scott@teraspeed.com wrote:

> for many models users cannot legally share information such as
> ibischk scores. The owner of the website would be legally
> responsible for policing each and every usage agreement. This is
> why independent companies provide this service.
>
> We keep an updated ibis model links page on our website that bob
> Ross manages
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <colin_warwick@agilent.com>
> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 14:04:54
> To: <jon.n.powell@intel.com>; <weirsi@ipblox.com>; <si-list@freelists.org
> >
> Cc: <bob@teraspeed.com>; <ibis@eda.org>; <ibis-users@eda.org>
> Subject: [IBIS] RE: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments:
> Crowdsource
> IBIS model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> Yes, IP and updates are an issue, so the plan is to let IC vendors
> build a directory of links and/or "how-to-get-the-model"
> instructions, not the models themselves. Users will add reviews and
> ratings and IBISCHK scores.
>
> -- Colin Warwick
> Signal Integrity Product Marketing Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA
> blog http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:si-list-
> bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Powell, Jon N
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 11:48 AM
> To: steve weir; si-list@freelists.org
> Cc: bob@teraspeed.com; ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource
> IBIS model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>
> Isn't there also a legal issue here?
> Who owns the IP or the copyright and who is going to be responsible
> for violation of said when a copy is kept in a database?
>
>
>
> Jon Powell
>
> EPSD Product SI
>
> 將
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:si-list-
> bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of steve weir
> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:58 PM
> To: si-list@freelists.org
> Cc: bob@teraspeed.com; ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource
> IBIS model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>
> Colin,
>
> Hosting is so cheap as to be a non-issue. Setting up the database
> mechanics is not particularly difficult either.
> The real cost is in the administration. In my opinion this needs
> people
> willing to serve as librarians who will act as the gate keepers so
> that
> the site is not overrun with junk.
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Steve.
>
> colin_warwick@agilent.com wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for the feedback and encouragement :-)
>>
>> There are several options each with pros and cons
>> * Web page with an appointed honorary librarian
>> * Wikis e.g. hosted and self-hosted http://www.wikimatrix.org/
>> * Discussion forums (bulletin boards) e.g. hosted and self-hosted http://www.forummatrix.org/
>> * Email reflectors like the si-list http://freelists.org
>> * Shared document/table like a Google Docs spreadsheet. http://docs.google.com/
>> * Hybrids of the above like Google Wave http://wave.google.com
>> which they say is a "next generation" email/collaboration/
>> documentation tool
>>
>> Here are some issues with each:
>> * Ease-of-use versus functionality: email is easy to use, but email
>> reflectors and forums have limited searchablity and it's hard to
>> aggregate threads of (possibility duplicative) conversations.
>> * WYSIWYG versus markup languages: some wikis and forums require
>> you learn a mark up language.
>> * "One truth" (conclusion) versus "Let a hundred flowers
>> blossom" (conversation) (yes, I do understand the irony of Mao
>> Zedong's imperative):
>> ** Wikis attempt to arrive at some sort of consensus between the
>> editors on the readers' behalf (although there's usually a
>> discussion page for editors behind the "real" page for readers)
>> whereas
>> ** Discussion Forums let everyone voice their own opinion and
>> each reader has to plow through the threads to draw their own
>> conclusion from the (possibly heated) conversation.
>> * Reputation: How do you hold a contributor accountable for their
>> contribution? How exclude spam in?
>> * Privacy: How much info to do I have to submit to sign up? As a
>> reader? As a writer? How to prevent harvesting of personal info by
>> nefarious agents?
>> * History/reversion: How do we track and undo "bad" edits? How to
>> delete "bad" postings?
>> * Who pays? There are plenty of "free" hosting sites, usually ad-
>> funded. Do we want an ad free site by paying to self-hosting fee?
>> If so, how do we split the check?
>> * Structured versus unstructured: Do you want a rigorous database
>> schema (specific column headings/fields for each row/record in
>> (possibly interlinked) tables)? Or more free form? If structured,
>> how to come to a consensus schema?
>> * Who runs the thing? What are the costs and benefits for the admin?
>>
>> I added a second straw poll to the bottom of:
>>
>> http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com/2010/crowdsource-ibis-models-directory/
>>
>> ...so you can vote for your favorite...
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> -- Colin Warwick
>> Signal Integrity Product Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:si-list-
>> bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Howard Johnson
>> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 1:00 AM
>> To: si-list@freelists.org
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments:
>> Crowdsource IBIS model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>>
>> Hey Colin,
>>
>> I think you are on to a good idea. Individual users spend way too
>> much time
>> farting around trying to put together good IBIS models. Much of
>> that effort
>> seems wasted.
>>
>> I'd like to see the list include some sort of "user voting" feature
>> so the
>> readers of the list could see if other people found the model
>> "useful".
>> Some "wiki" type tools allow that kind of feedback and I believe it
>> would be
>> crucial, because I believe you will never get an official committee
>> to vet
>> the models -- it has to be done through independent user evaluations.
>>
>> Good luck, and keep plugging on this idea, it's a good one.
>>
>> Yes, I went to your link and voted.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Dr. Howard Johnson, Signal Consulting Inc.,
>> tel +1 509-997-0505, howie03@sigcon.com
>> www.sigcon.com -- High-Speed Digital Design seminars, publications
>> and films
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:si-list-
>> bounce@freelists.org] On
>> Behalf Of steve weir
>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:09 PM
>> To: colin_warwick@agilent.com
>> Cc: si-list@freelists.org
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments:
>> Crowdsource IBIS
>> model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>>
>> My view on the usefulness of such a directory all depends on how
>> well the
>> directory would be maintained / policed and whether the directory
>> would
>> include information that would indicate the model's likely
>> usefulness.
>> There are a lot of IBIS ( HSPICE models as well for that matter ),
>> that
>> aren't particularly useful. Many have not been verified in any
>> way. Some
>> of them do not even parse.
>>
>> Anyway, if this is going to be undertaken, I would really like to see
>> something similar to the way that the FPGA vendors list IP cores.
>>
>> Target Model Manufacturer
>> Target Model Part Number
>> Free or pay model
>> Model basis: Raw original model, SPICE derived model, Measurement
>> based
>> model IBIS version Passed parser or not w/ parser version Model
>> verified or
>> not Link to model, or model supplier
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> colin_warwick@agilent.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Bottom line on top: Any interest in using and/or contributing to
>>> an IBIS
>>>
>> model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia? Please vote in
>> this
>> informal straw poll:
>>
>>>
>> http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com/2010/crowdsource-ibis-models-director
>> y/
>>
>>> ...and/or leave a comment there, and/or comment to this thread.
>>>
>>> Backstory: I posted the message below to the IBIS lists, but was
>>> disappointed that the response was fairly mute. So, I'm posting it
>>> here in the hope it will resonate with si-listers. (If you are
>>> also on
>>> the IBIS lists, this is a duplicate. Sorry!)
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> -- Colin Warwick
>>> Signal Integrity Product Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: WARWICK,COLIN
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:59 AM
>>> To: IBIS-Interconnect; 'ibis-macro@freelists.org'
>>> Subject: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS model
>>>
>> directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I get several emails a month from customers asking "Is there an
>>> IBIS model
>>>
>> for XYZ part from ABC IC vendor". I usually point them at:
>>
>>> http://www.teraspeed.com/ibis_resources.html
>>> http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis%20table/models.htm
>>>
>>> If the info is out-of-date (as is often the case), I ask them to
>>> do an
>>> advanced Google search like:
>>> http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=IBIS+site:someicvendordomain.c
>>> om
>>>
>>> (replace someicvendordomain.com with the IC vendor's domain,
>>> obviously)
>>>
>>> But I'm wondering if there's a better way than "spray and pray"
>>> Googling
>>>
>> or burdening a single librarian with hundreds of update requests.
>>
>>> Sooo...How about crowdsourcing?
>>>
>>> "Crowd-what-ing," you say? Here's a definition from wikipedia:
>>>
>>> 'Crowdsourcing is a neologistic compound of Crowd and Outsourcing
>>> for the
>>>
>> act of taking tasks traditionally performed by an employee or
>> contractor,
>> and outsourcing them to a group of people or community, through an
>> "open
>> call" to a large group of people (a crowd) asking for contributions.'
>>
>>> (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing )
>>>
>>> Specifically, I'm wondering if we should create a table off of the
>>> main
>>>
>> IBIS page on wikipedia:
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_Output_Buffer_Information_Specifica
>>> tion
>>>
>>> ...(or some other wiki) for IC vendors to update their info
>>> themselves. It
>>>
>> would look something like this prototype I cobbled together:
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Woz2/Input_Output_Buffer_Information
>>> _Specification/Table_of_IBIS_models
>>>
>>> Thoughts? Please vote in this informal straw poll:
>>>
>>> http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com/2010/crowdsource-ibis-models-di
>>> rectory/
>>>
>>> and/or leave a comment there, and/or comment to this thread.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> -- Colin Warwick
>>> Signal Integrity Product Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Steve Weir
> IPBLOX, LLC
> 150 N. Center St. #211
> Reno, NV 89501
> www.ipblox.com
>
> (775) 299-4236 Business
> (866) 675-4630 Toll-free
> (707) 780-1951 Fax
>
>
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