Text item: Text_1
My apologies I thought I had sent out the minutes, but looking back at my
mail log, it appears that I didn't. Here they are.
- Derrick
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Date: April 20, 1994
From: Will Hobbs (503) 696-4369, fax (503) 696-4210
Will_Hobbs@ccm2.jf.intel.com
XTG Modeling Manager, Intel Corp., Chairperson, IBIS Open Forum
Intel Corporation
5200 NE Elam Young Pkwy, Hillsboro, Oregon 97124 USA
and
Derrick Duehren (503) 696-4299, fax (503) 696-4904
Derrick_Duehren@ccm.jf.intel.com
Intel Program Manager
Subject: Minutes from IBIS Open Forum 4/15/94
To:
Anacad Steffen Rochel
Ansoft Henri Maramis
Atmel Corporation Dan Terry
Cadence Design Sandeep Khanna, Chris Reed,
Kumar*
Contec Maah Sango, Clark Cochran
Digital Equipment Corp. Barry Katz*
High Design Technology Michael Smith
HyperLynx Steve Kaufer, Kellee Crisafulli
IBM Jay Diepenbrock
IBM-Motorola alliance Lynn Warriner, Hoa Quoc, John Burnett
Integrity Engineering Greg Doyle, Wayne Olhoft
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Don Telian, Will Hobbs*
Arpad Muranyi*, D. Duehren*, Lisa Huang
Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross*
Intergraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens
IntuSoft Charles Hymowitz
Logic Modeling Corp. Randy Harr
Mentor Graphics Greg Seltzer, Ravender Goyal
Meta-Software Mei Wong, Mei-Ling Wei
MicroSim Arthur Wong, Jerry Brown, Graham Bell
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*
North Carolina State U. Paul Franzon, Michael Steer, Steve Lipa
Performance Signal Integrity Vivek Raghawan, Eric Bracken*
Quad Design Jon Powell*
Quantic Labs Mike Ventham, Zhen Mu
Racal-Redac John Berrie
Siemens Nixdorf Werner Rissiek*, Olaf Rethmeier
Texas Instruments Bob Ward*
Thomson-CSF/SCTF Jean Lebrun
Zeelan Technology Hiro Moriyasu, George Opsahl*
CC:
Intel Corporation Randy Wilhelm, Jerry Budelman,
Intel IBIS team
In the list above, attendees at the 4/15/94 meeting are indicated by *
Upcoming Meetings: The room and bridge numbers for future IBIS
teleconferences are listed below:
Date Bridge Number Reservation #
4/29/94 (415) 904-8944, 721618
5/13/94 (415) 904-8944, 721619
5/20/94 Face-to-face, editing committee
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM PST (15:00 to 17:00 UTC). We try
to have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes
out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the
IBIS Open Forum and give the bridge operator the reservation number.
If you know of someone new who wants to join the e-mail reflector
(ibis@vhdl.org) send e-mail to ibis-request@vhdl.org.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
************************************************************************
****** General Announcement *******
****** We will attempt to come to closure on all BIRDs *******
****** through BIRD 11 at the 4/29/94 meeting. *******
************************************************************************
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4/15/94 Meeting Agenda
----------------------
Check-in
Intros of new IBIS participants Hobbs
Review of previous meeting's minutes Hobbs
Miscellany/Announcements Hobbs
Opens for new issues All
New models available All
IBIS 2.0 Ratification/DAC Hobbs, Ward
- Rev 2.0 Ratification Summit (6/9)
- Birds of a Feather session (6/8)
IBIS Cookbook Hobbs
BIRD 8, Spec. of V/I data monotonicity Crisafulli
BIRD 9, Other model types Ross
BIRD 10, Coupling effects in package models Bracken
BIRD 11, Sign of current checking Hobbs, All
Egg 2, Variable ramp Peters
BIRD 2, VIH, VIL Thresholds for Inputs Powell
Simulation temperatures (new BIRD?) Warriner
Ramp measurement Reid, Ross,
et. al.
Wrap-up, Next Meeting Plans Hobbs
From this point on, we propose tabling until after 2.0:
Formal BNF notation (BIRD?) Reed, Harr
High freq. and EMI Goyal,
et. al.
Phased turn-on/off of multiple devices Powell
1. Intros of new IBIS participants
New participants: None.
2. Review of Pervious Meeting's Minutes
There were no corrections made to last month's minutes.
3. Miscellany/Announcements
We have been experiencing problems on the reflector/internet (messages
bouncing, 3 attempts to get agenda out with delayed acknowledge to
sender but everyone got it 3 times, etc.
AR Derrick: See if anything can be done to improve the
internet/reflector performance.
Derrick suggested eliminating non-active people from this document's to:
list as participants are also listed in the roster document. Consensus
was to leave the list as it is.
4. Opens for new issues
Add to the agenda, Non-monotonic data (Muranyi/Powell)
Derrick is converting the IBIS Overview document into an EDN article.
An abstract has been sent to EDN, which has acknowledged, but no
activity.
5. New models available
6. IBIS 2.0 Ratification/DAC
- May 20 Editing Committee
AR Derrick: Get room, time, hotel info out to May 20 participants
within next week.
AR Will: Engage Paul Munsey after 5/20 for parsability study of
the proposed version 2.0 to minimize a need for a version 2.1
soon after 2.0.
- Rev 2.0 Ratification Summit (6/9/94)
AR Kumar: Arrange a room for 2.0 ratification session, all day,
preferably at the conference, though possibly at the Cadence
office in San Diego.
- Birds of a Feather session (6/8/94)
11 RSVPs so far, meeting 10 minimum, DAC will assign room at the
Marriot, overhead, etc. Will will give quick (5-7 minutes)
icebreaker intro to the group at 5:30 p.m., then open the
discussion to everyone. Bob Ward is also getting posters made by
a graphic artist using IBIS logos from an Intel artist.
Any additional people planning to attend should sign up when they
register for DAC.
9. IBIS Cookbook
The cookbook is in the second round of internal review. It may be ready
for limited review by participants as early as the next (4/29) meeting.
Those who would like to participate in the review should send email
requests to Derrick.
11. BIRD 8, Spec. of V/I data monotonicity
Kellee was not present -- no discussion.
12. BIRD 9, Other model types
Bob Ross recapped the additional components added to the BIRD (series,
ac terminators). Stephen is concerned about the fact we have no way to
tell how series resistors connect in a package. Arpad: Does this
address terminators in buffers or separately? Bob R: this is a problem;
it is intended to represent terminations, but it is stated as if it is
part of a buffer. Bob W: is this a simple, pure resistor, or a
saturable resistor? Bob R: simple resistor.
Other discussion addressed series diodes, saturable r-packs (do such
things exist?), etc. Arpad: "IBIS was intended to be a buffer
description, and BIRD 9 looks like we are trying to extend it to include
more general components. This may be valid, but that wasn't the
original intent." Jon sees it as just a way to get data from vendors to
simulators. Kumar and others feel we should not make IBIS too general
yet. Bob is willing to withdraw the BIRD as it is at this time, since
it appears we can't reach consensus and defer it to post-2.0
discussions. Bob W. will consider generating BIRD 9.2 for 2.0
consideration, focusing solely on termination packages, without series
resistors being addressed.
13. BIRD 10, Coupling effects in package models
Eric will update the BIRD to include alphanumeric pin names for PGA-type
packages.
Eric posed the question of whether we want to include package data in
same file rather than in a separate file, which generated a lengthy
discussion discussing the pros and cons of each approach.
Single-file approach:
+ Keeps everything together
- Libraries of devices that share package types will require much more
storage space if package info is duplicated in each file.
Multiple-file approach:
+ Enables mix and match buffer descriptions with various packages
(multiple models, 1 package description; multiple packages, 1 model)
+ Enables easy updates to packages that affect a library of parts.
- Potential for filename overlaps, esp. with 8/3 character DOS filename
limitation. (File name inside file could be required to include
creation date, etc. to ensure it is unique. Company codes?)
= Package and model-description files should be kept in the same
directory.
We need a model moderator for vhdl.org to pass files through the Golden
Parser and to avoid same-name different models. We will talk about this
at DAC.
Consensus was reached that we will allow separate package models. We
need to make clear that we are not excluding nor mandating sparse versus
banded versus full matrix representation.
AR Eric: Create BIRD 10.1 with alphanumeric pin names, and make it
explicit that the package model can be either in the file or in a
separate .pkg file. We will vote on which takes priority if both exist
at the next meeting.
14. BIRD 11, Sign of current checking
Kellee was not present. Bob R. questions whether a table of zeros would
pass or not? He thinks a slight clarification might be a good idea.
The editing committee could clean it up, if needed. Discussion tabled
until the next meeting. The Golden Parser is the standard; all rules
must be checked by the GP.
AR Bob R: Address your concerns with Kellee.
15. Egg 2, Variable ramp
Stephen pointed out that this Egg could be used to put out "Golden
Waveforms" and "Golden Load Topologies". Jon also suggests that we
could avoid the ramp specification altogether if we specified the output
waveform into a pull-up load and a pull-down load and let the simulator
vendors decide what the ramp times were. We'd still need pull-up and
pull-down V/I tables, the rise-time data can still be there, but the
golden waveform could supplant the ramp table if the simulator vendor
believes it can do better with the waveform.
The data should be in raw form, not percent voltage/percent time. We
still have to decide or specify whether the package is included in the
waveform. We would also need the complete environment for creating the
waveform, but this would enable the models to contain sanity-
check/verification within the models. Consensus was that this is a step
in the right direction. We will attempt to get this into Version 2.0.
AR Stephen (With Jon, Bob R, and Arpad): Collaborate on turning this
into a BIRD. Stephen to set up a bridge number for discussion.
AR Jon: Share some experimental data with Stephen et. al. to discuss
prior to the conference call.
16. BIRD 2, VIH, VIL Thresholds for Inputs
Jon needs a compendium of past BIRDs.
AR Bob R: Send Jon your rollup of V1.1x so he can check existing passed
syntax and repost the BIRD for discussion next meeting.
17. Simulation temperatures (new BIRD?)
We need a new BIRD to change the spec. to be explicit that simulation
temperatures are only guidelines. Jon suggests a temperature keyword to
specify min/max.
AR Bob W: Submit an Egg 3.0 to the reflector regarding this issue.
18. Ramp measurement
Covered in Egg 2.
19. New Issue: Non-monotonic data
Jon and Arpad agreed that the data was a measurement artifact, but given
that, it is OK. Simulator vendors can back out the anomaly. It is an
artifact that comes from one measurement being derived from on versus
tri-stated transistors. When you subtract the curves, there is a small
error that results. After discussion, Jon and Arpad were not in
agreement.
AR Jon: Publish a discussion of this issue. DONE.
20. Wrap-up, Next Meeting Plans
Next meeting is 4/29/94. We will concentrate on approving/rejecting all
pending BIRDs through BIRD 11.
Received on Thu Apr 28 13:08:53 1994
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