Text item: Text_1
Date: Dec. 12, 1994
From: Will Hobbs (503) 696-4369, fax (503) 696-4210
Will_Hobbs@ccm2.jf.intel.com
XTG Modeling Manager, Intel Corp., Chairperson, IBIS Open Forum
Intel Corporation
5200 NE Elam Young Pkwy, Hillsboro, Oregon 97124 USA
and
Derrick Duehren (503) 696-4299, fax (503) 696-4904
Derrick_Duehren@ccm.jf.intel.com
Intel Program Manager
Subject: Minutes from IBIS Open Forum Meeting 12/9/94
To:
AT&T Global Info Systems Dave Moxley
Anacad Steffen Rochel
Ansoft Henri Maramis
Atmel Corporation Dan Terry
Cadence Design Sandeep Khanna, C. Kumar*
Cadlab Ralf Bruning
Contec Dileep Divkar
Digital Equipment Corp. Barry Katz*
EIA Patty Rusher
High Design Technology Michael Smith, Dr. Ing. Cosso
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli
IBM Jay Diepenbrock, Joseph Flanigan
IBM-Motorola alliance Lynn Warriner, Hoa Quoc, John Burnett
INCASES Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier
Integrated Silicon Systems Eric Bracken
Integrity Engineering Greg Doyle
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Don Telian, Will Hobbs*
Arpad Muranyi*, Derrick Duehren*
Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross*, Scott Bloom
Intergraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens
IntuSoft Charles Hymowitz
Mentor Graphics Ravender Goyal
Meta-Software Mei Wong, You-Pang Wei, John Sliney
NEC Hiroshi Matsumoto
MicroSim Arthur Wong
National Semiconductor Syed Huq
North Carolina State U. Steve Lipa, Michael Steer
OptEM Engineering, Inc. Benny Leveille, Ken Ehn
PC Ware Paul Munsey, Ron Neville
Quad Design Jon Powell*
Quantic Labs Mike Ventham*
Racal-Redac John Berrie
Stanford University Randy Harr
Stree Co. Mon Seng(sp?)
Symmetry Martin Walker
Synopsys, Logic Modeling G. Bill Lattin
Texas Instruments Bob Ward*
Thomson-CSF/SCTF Jean Lebrun
UniCAD Canada Ltd. Stephen Lum*
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Hiro Moriyasu
CC:
Intel Corporation Randy Wilhelm, Jerry Budelman,
Intel IBIS team
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.
Upcoming Meetings: The room and bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences
are listed below:
Date Bridge Number Reservation #
TBD (916) 356-9999 TBD
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM PDT (16:00 to 18:00 UTC). We try to have
agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by
Will Hobbs and give the reservation number.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
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Check-in, Intros, Announcements
There were no new participants.
There were no corrections made to last month's minutes.
To date eight companies have paid for the Version 2.0. We discussed possible
reasons why only 8 companies have purchased the 2.0 parser. Is there little
interest in 2.0? Is there little interest in IBIS altogether? Are others just
waiting for the final version? For Ver 1.1, 10 companies bought the GP early,
10 bought after ratification. Jon Powell suggested raising the fee to $1,000
in another month to encourage purchases now. After discussion, we decided to
keep the price at $500 to help encourage participation.
Update: Another company has subscribed. Will is awaiting confirmation.
New Agenda Items:
BIRD 24, C_comp, ramp rates and waveform tables
Press Updates:
Derrick started a draft press release. It needs work. Bob Ross suggests
keeping it short. We asked for any quotes that anyone cares to volunteer. We
decided to approve the press release via the reflector. We will try to get it
out within a week.
AR All - Send updates of the roster to Derrick.
AR Derrick - Add a disclaimer to the public roster document indicating that
appearance on the list does not imply active participation and support. [DONE]
AR Derrick - Submit a draft press release to the reflector today. [DONE]
Note: Derrick will disappear on vacation 12/14 through Jan 1.
Progress toward enlisting new IC vendors
Xilinx Spice-to-IBIS effort has generated models that Bob Ross has reviewed,
commented on, and are being revised. When ready, Xilinx will make them
publicly available.
Will reported that a 2.0 IBIS model of a yet unannounced Intel processor will
be distributed to Intel customers soon (simulator vendors take note).
Intel is also working internally to validate Intel's "Simplified Electrical
Model" SEM-within-IBIS effort. This leverages the software-parsable nature of
IBIS to widely disseminate models that have been evaluated by, and have the
stamp of approval of, Intel's division responsible for the Pentium(TM)
processor family.
Intel also posted two updated chipset models (82434NX, and 82433NX) to
vhdl.org.
Golden Parser, 2.0
Paul reported that he and Ron have nearly completed their parser development
and they expect to finish up next week (Ron has a few final questions). We
discussed the naming conventions associated with preliminary releases of the
2.1 parser. We decided to not label the parser "2.1" until it is fully
compliant with the ratified 2.1 spec. Versions before that are 2.0a, 2.0b,
etc.
The next Beta release will be next week.
AR Will - Verify that you are using Barry Katz' latest address from the
roster.
Paul commented that he doesn't expect to roll in the final changes until after
the holidays. He will evaluate all the parser changes that are needed to
reflect the latest spec changes and submit an estimate to the forum.
AR Paul - estimate the cost of bringing the parser up to full 2.1 level.
Paul was able to create a component of 3,000 pins with no memory problems, then
one with 100 rising waveforms with 100 points, 100 falling, etc. He found he
could do 2,000 pins with 5 models, then his editor ran out of steam. It
appears that by not saving data that isn't necessary, memory problems no longer
exist under DOS 6.02.
BIRD 21.1 Ratification
Reapproved by consent as printed in draft B of the 2.1 draft spec document.
BIRD 23 Ratification
Minimum number of waveform points clarification. Numeric entries must be in
V/I tables for first and last entries in any column that has numerical data.
Approved unanimously.
BIRD 24, C_comp, ramp rates and waveform tables, ratification
This BIRD was modified (inverted!) and then approved unanimously for Ver 2.1 as
follows:
STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: The specification is changed in
three places. The first is in the 'NOTES ON DATA DERIVATION METHOD' section
under Ramp Rates. The second paragraph is modified to read as follows:
"The ramp rate does not include packaging but does include the
effects of the C_comp parameter; it is the intrinsic output stage rise and
fall time only."
In the section of the spec describing the [Ramp] keyword the following
statement is added after the first sentence of the description:
"The ramp rate does not include packaging but does include the
effects of the C_comp parameter."
Likewise, the section describing the [Rising Waveform], [Falling Waveform] is
modified to add the following at the end of the first paragraph:
"The data in the waveform table is taken with the effects of the C_comp
parameter included."
Discussion details:
When ramp rate is generated, it is done by dividing dV/dT, with C_Comp = 0,
assumed Stephen. We have disagreement in forum on this point, and BIRD 24
proposes we explicitly state our assumption. Arpad says that his original
model required C_Comp = 0, but the V1.1 says to measure with package
removed, but doesn't mention C_Comp, making C_Comp implicitly included.
Measurement is impossible to do without C_Comp. Even Spice has it in. The
50 models published by TI have data that would be nearly impossible to back
out C_Comp by playing with the Spice parameters.
Jon Powell discussed the difficulty of generating IBIS models to IBIS spec
through measurement, especially with regard to package parameters, waveform
tables, and probing recommendations. We agreed to discuss, at some future
time, enhancements to IBIS that could help those developing models through
measurement. It is preferred but not required to extract the waveform
with the package parameters removed, but it is not required. If r_dut,
c_dut, and l_dut are not included We won't make this change to BIRD 24,
since it is already clear in the spec.
We made specific changes to the wording of BIRD 24 and we passed it.
AR Stephen - Make agreed changes, publish as BIRD 24.1 and put on reflector.
[Done]
V_load Discussion
Bob Ross proposed that the V_Load keyword doesn't need to be added, since 2.0
already allows it using the waveform method. A linear waveform can be used
instead of [ramp], stating the conditions explicitly.
We decided that it was too complicated to implement... a non issue.
IBIS Spec Rev 2.1 Ratification
Minor grammatical and typo changes were made, and "Seconds" was added as a
scaling factor.
VOTE TAKEN, IBIS SPEC REV 2.1 WAS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY.
AR Derrick - Input the changes, publish Ver 2.1 to the reflector, and post it
to vhdl.org. [DONE]
IBIS General Session/Summit (face-to-face)
AR All - Please continue to post topics to the reflector whether or not you
think it's hot. For example, your experiences implementing IBIS can be
valuable to others.
AR - Derrick arrange date/time/place for January meeting Jan 30th - Feb 10th.
and city preferences.
AR Will - Mail EIA documents to Bob Ross.
Rev 2.1 Fallout
The following items need to be updated to support/reflect the updated spec.
Bob Ross volunteered to help in some way. Will suggested that the Overview
document should be first so we're not giving out old information.
o Cookbook
o Overview
o S2IBIS
What to do with Existing Models that Don't have the C_Comp Subparameters
AR All - Everyone who has created IBIS models should review their models to
determine if C_comp is properly represented per the new definition of C_comp.
Wrap-up, Next Meeting Plans
Our next meeting is 1/6/95. We will determine then what future schedule of
meetings we want.
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NOTES
If you know of someone new who wants to join the e-mail reflector
(ibis@vhdl.org), send e-mail to ibis-request@vhdl.org.
Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from
telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an email request to the automatic
archive server, archive@vhdl.org.
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Received on Mon Dec 12 18:04:35 1994
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