Text item: Text_1
Date: May 4, 1994
From: Will Hobbs (503) 696-4369, fax (503) 696-4210
Will_Hobbs@ccm2.jf.intel.com
XTG Modeling Manager, Intel Corp., Chairperson, IBIS Open Forum
Intel Corporation
5200 NE Elam Young Pkwy, Hillsboro, Oregon 97124 USA
and
Derrick Duehren (503) 696-4299, fax (503) 696-4904
Derrick_Duehren@ccm.jf.intel.com
Intel Program Manager
Subject: Minutes from IBIS Open Forum 4/29/94
To:
Anacad Steffen Rochel
Ansoft Henri Maramis
Atmel Corporation Dan Terry
Cadence Design Sandeep Khanna, Chris Reed,
Kumar*
Contec Maah Sango, Clark Cochran
Digital Equipment Corp. Barry Katz*
High Design Technology Michael Smith
HyperLynx Steve Kaufer, Kellee Crisafulli*
IBM Jay Diepenbrock
IBM-Motorola alliance Lynn Warriner, Hoa Quoc*, John Burnett
Integrity Engineering Greg Doyle, Wayne Olhoft
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Don Telian, Will Hobbs*
Arpad Muranyi*, D. Duehren*, R. Rosenbaum*
Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross*
Intergraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens
IntuSoft Charles Hymowitz
Logic Modeling Corp. Randy Harr
Mentor Graphics Greg Seltzer, Ravender Goyal
Meta-Software Mei Wong, Mei-Ling Wei
MicroSim Arthur Wong, Jerry Brown, Graham Bell
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*
North Carolina State U. Paul Franzon, Michael Steer, Steve Lipa
Performance Signal Integrity Vivek Raghawan, Eric Bracken*
Quad Design Jon Powell*
Quantic Labs Mike Ventham, Zhen Mu
Racal-Redac John Berrie
Siemens Nixdorf Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier
Texas Instruments Bob Ward*
Thomson-CSF/SCTF Jean Lebrun
Zeelan Technology Hiro Moriyasu, George Opsahl*
CC:
Intel Corporation Randy Wilhelm, Jerry Budelman,
Intel IBIS team
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *
Upcoming Meetings: The room and bridge numbers for future IBIS
teleconferences are listed below:
Date Bridge Number Reservation #
5/13/94 (415) 904-8944 721619
5/20/94 Face-to-face, editing committee
5/27/94 (415) 904-8800 744468
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM PST (15:00 to 17:00 UTC). We try
to have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes
out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the
IBIS Open Forum and give the bridge operator the reservation number.
If you know of someone new who wants to join the e-mail reflector
(ibis@vhdl.org) send e-mail to ibis-request@vhdl.org.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4/15/94 Meeting Agenda
----------------------
Check-in
Intros of new IBIS participants Hobbs
Review of previous meeting's minutes Hobbs
Miscellany/Announcements Hobbs
Opens for new issues All
Opens for new issues All
New models available All
IBIS 2.0 Ratification/DAC/Other 2.0 Issues Hobbs
- Birds of a Feather session (6/8)
- Rev 2.0 Ratification Summit (6/9)
- Levels of support (see 12/3/93 discussion)
IBIS Cookbook Hobbs, Rosenbaum
BIRD 8, Spec. of V/I data monotonicity Crisafulli
BIRD 9.2, Terminator Specification Ross
BIRD 10, Coupling effects in package models Bracken
BIRD 11, Sign of current checking Hobbs, All
BIRD 12, Non-Linear Ramps Peters
BIRD 2, VIH, VIL Thresholds for Inputs Powell
Egg 3, Simulation temperatures Ward
The rest of the nest (Eggs 4, 5...) All
Wrap-up, Next Meeting Plans Hobbs
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Intros of new IBIS participants
New participants: None.
2. Review of Pervious Meeting's Minutes
The following correction was made to last month's minutes: In item 12,
"Bob W." should be "Bob R."
3. Miscellany/Announcements
Barry believes ad-hoc nature of ibis forum causes problems for DEC. He
prefers $500 dues, rather than a source license (easier for corporations
to justify). Will gave a short history of the Golden Parser licensing.
We will discuss this issue at the ratification meeting.
IBIS is mentioned briefly in Steve Ohr's column in Computer Design,
April 1994, pg. 112.
The vhdl.org \birds directory is up-to-date as of 5/3/94.
4. Opens for new issues
BIRDs 13 and 14 added to the agenda.
5. New models available
The IntelDX4(TM) processor and Pentium(TM) processor-to-PCI bridge
component IBIS files have been posted to vhdl.org.
6. IBIS 2.0 Ratification/DAC
- May 20 Editing Committee
AR Derrick: Get room, time, hotel info out to May 20 participants
within next week. DONE
The agenda for the ratification meeting will be published after
the May 20 meeting.
Old AR Will: Engage Paul Munsey after 5/20 for parsability study
of the proposed version 2.0 to minimize a need for a version 2.1
soon after 2.0.
- Rev 2.0 Ratification Summit (6/9/94)
Kumar has arranged a room near the conference center for 30 to
40 people.
- Birds of a Feather session (6/8/94)
No discussion. Arrangements are made for a Marriott room.
- Levels of support (see 12/3/93 discussion)
Will be discussed at the ratification meeting.
9. IBIS Cookbook
Robin Rosenbuam (an Intel Technical Writer) led a short discussion of
the cookbook. Kellee and Jon received and reviewed copies, and will be
giving Robin their comments. Will asked for volunteers to create new
examples for the book; no one volunteered. Hoa Quoc requested a review
copy. Robin later tried to send it to an email address Hoa provided,
but the address failed.
AR Hoa: Call Robin at (503) 696-4554 to make arrangements. Also please
provide name, address, phone number, etc. to Derrick for the Roster
document.
11. BIRD 8, Spec. of V/I data monotonicity
We need resolution to Jon and Arpad's disagreement. Originally, the
forum requested that IBIS require monotonicity of data, which Kellee
codified in BIRD 8 and later revised to only require one monotonic axis.
Most of the discussion revolved around what is and is not monotonic.
Non-zero? Non-slope changing? No change in sign of slope? Slope going
to zero? We concluded that zero slope is OK, we can allow "flat spots",
and could issue a warning for non compliance.
Jon feels nonmonotonic behavior can only take place in the presence of
feedback, which implies delay, which IBIS doesn't describe. Some
simulator vendors currently filter out non-monotonic data.
Will proposed: Require monotonic data on at least one axis. Simulators
can issue a warning message to customers if data on the other axis is
monotonic. Customers can put whatever they want in the model. It would
be very difficult to have the GP do the filtering. We can put a
guideline/note in the spec.: "If you have non-monotonic data, some
simulators will convert it to monotonic data." Simulator vendors are
responsible for warning user how it will be handled (e.g., filtered
out).
Barry wants an example of a nonmonotonic transistor. Arpad said the
irf50 CMOS transistor is an example.
AR Kellee: Update BIRD 8 per this discussion.
12. BIRD 9, Other model types
Vote taken: Approved unanimously with the Model_type name changes from
"Discrete" to "Terminator".
AR Bob R.: Update the approved BIRD and post to the reflector.
13. BIRD 10, Coupling effects in package models
Digital and TI have this data and will likely make it available under
this BIRD.
Vote taken: Approved unanimously.
14. BIRD 11, Sign of current checking
Vote taken: Approved unanimously.
15. BIRD 12, Non-linear Ramps
Stephen Peters clarified some misunderstandings, proposed a few
additions to the BIRD. We need to be able to optionally override the
package parameters.
Kellee suggested allowing R_pkg, etc., to be overridden. He suggested
naming the sub-parameters the same as for the package with _dut <device
under test> suffix. Also add a drawing.
The end point of the waveform must line up with the steady DC state
current, according to the discussion. However, measurement errors will
inevitably prevent the steady, DC states to not line up. This is the
model creator's problem. Bob Ward recommends that we add a steady-state
agreement as part of the measurement guideline.
Kellee suggested limiting the table length to 100 entries, others
agreed.
We discussed supporting more complex loads, and concluded no one would
trust the reference waveforms in the model into anything but fairly
simple loads, due to low quality transmission line models in older
simulators. The consensus is to keep only simple r, l, c loads, not
topologies such as the PCI speedway.
Jon: We need to figure out a way to sync up the curves -- VT curves in
different tables, the starting point or some point has to be able to
correlate the waveforms in time. Jon proposed that we create 2 pictures
for forum review, one to sync curves, one to ???
AR Stephen: Reissue the BIRD per this discussion. Revise names, add
c_dut, l_dut, r_dut, Set max of 100 data points in the table, set
character limits, and add a schematic showing where these elements go.
DONE
16. BIRD 2, VIH, VIL Thresholds for Inputs
Vote taken: Approved unanimously.
17. BIRD 13, Simulation temperatures
Bob W. put this BIRD out to get discussion going. This BIRD could
migrate into a simple wording-fix BIRD for the IBIS specification. It
clarifies that temperatures are die temperatures, not ambient. Also,
bjt min and max are backwards.
AR Will: Send note to Bob W. with suggested wording change to Version
1.1 spec.
Discussion to continue via the reflector.
18. The rest of the nest (Eggs 4, 5..., BIRD 14)
No discussion.
19. Wrap-up, Next Meeting Plans
Next meeting is 5/13/94.
Received on Wed May 4 21:23:41 1994
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