DATE: December 5, 1995
SUBJECT: 12/1/95 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS:
AT&T Global Info Solutions Dave Moxley*
Cadence Design Sandeep Khanna, C. Kumar*
Contec CAE, Ltd. Dileep Divekar*
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli
IBM Jay Diepenbrock
INCASES Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier*
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi,
Derrick Duehren
Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross*
Meta-Software Les Spruiell, Mei Wong, You-Pang Wei,
John Sliney
Motorola Ron Werner
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Atul Agarwal, Cheng-Yang Kao
NEC Hiroshi Matsumoto, Eldar Yazbashevz
Quad Design Jon Powell*, Chris Myles, Chris Rokusek*
Quantic Labs Mike Ventham*
Tanner Research, Inc. Scott Wedge, Ed Miller, Peter Parrish
Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen
Thomson-CSF/SCTF Jean LeBrun
UniCAD Canada Ltd. Stephen Lum
VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh*
Zuken-Redac John Berrie
OTHER PARTICIPANTS:
AMP Hank Herrmann*
ARPA Randy Harr
Anacad Steffen Rochel
Ansoft Henri Maramis
Atmel Corporation Dan Terry
Cadlab Ralf Bruning
CFI Ron Christopher, Don Cottrell*
Digital Equipment Corp. Barry Katz
EIA Patti Rusher*
High Design Technology Michael Smith, Dr. Ing. Cosso
Hewlett Packard Tom Langdorf, Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
Integrated Silicon Systems Eric Bracken
Intergraph Ian Dodd, David Wiens, Walter Katz
IntuSoft Charles Hymowitz
LSI Logic Corp. Satish Pratadneni
Mentor Graphics Ravender Goyal, Greg Doyle
Micron Technology Brian Johnson
MicroSim Arthur Wong
North Carolina State U. Steve Lipa, Michael Steer
OptEM Engineering, Inc. Benny Leveille, Ken Ehn
Pacific Numerix Paul K. U. Wang
Symmetry Martin Walker
Synopsys, Logic Modeling G. Bill Lattin
Univ. of Illinois, Urbana Raj Mittra
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Hiro Moriyasu
(Independent) Bob Ward
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
12/15/95 (916) 356-9200 2-41859 7747258
1/12/96 (916) 356-9200 2-41860 1918954
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS
Hank Herrmann of AMP, Inc. indicated his interest in IBIS as a result of
of meeting Stephen Peters at a JEDEC JC-15 meeting.
Don Cottrell of CFI joined us to discuss the DCL and Roadmap relationship
with IBIS.
EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
No change in the treasury was reported. TI did purchase the ibischk2 source
code.
MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
The October 27, 1995 Minutes have been changed to include Kellee Crisafulli
as an attendee.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS UPDATES
Patti Rusher reported that the press release announcing the ratification
of IBIS as EIA-656 was sent out last week. Will Hobbs indicated that
he has already had discussion from a United Kingdom publication editor.
Will Hobbs also reported the EE Times article of November 27, 1995
"Group eyes 'free' VHDL sim models", by Richard Goering, mentioned IBIS
and quotes by Will in the article. The article discussed the Free
Model Forum activity which is seeking to acquire, develop and distribute
IBIS models as well. C. Kumar indicated that representatives were visiting
Cadence to seek funding from Vendors for modeling efforts.
NEW MODELS
The PentiumPro (P6 Models) were made publically available November 1.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Free Model Foundation
Depletion Capacitance Discussion
EIA-656 ANSI RATIFICATION
Patti Rusher has been pushing EIA-656 ratification as an ANSI standard.
She still expects a 1995 date on the ANSI Standard. No further action
is needed by the IBIS committee.
EIA/IBIS 1996 MEMBERSHIP
Patti Rusher will send out EIA/IBIS 1996 membership renewal forms in
December. Annual membership is $500 per company. Bob Ross indicated that
for the purposes of meeting quorums existing memberships will be carried
through the end of January to give time for the membership fees to be paid.
No additional golden parser fee is needed for those who have already purchased
the source code of Version 2.1, and the same 50% discounts apply for those
who have not purchased the source code. Will Hobbs indicated that there
are 22 parser licencees.
WEB UPDATE (AND EIA)
Patti Rusher reported that the Web page issue is still under discussion
and is of concern to many groups. Uniformity of content and security are
issues, and EIA has hired a consultant to help out. She is pushing hard for
a resolution at the Monday, December 4 internal meeting. Syed Huq needs to
know what can be published. Everything is in place to be copied.
Jon Powell indicated he received copies of logo permission letters from
10 companies. This needs to be checked since Quad Design was not included.
Jon will work with Syed Huq to provide the Logos in a common format (probably
GIF) so that a collage of logos can be created by pointers. We also
discussed the possibility of linking the logos to their respective
companies' home pages.
Unless the EIA web issues are resolved, further discussion on web plans
including the possibility of setting up one separately on vhdl.org will
occur at the next meeting.
USERS' GROUP
Bob Ross reported that the IBIS USERS' GROUP reflector ibis-users@vhdl.org
is active. No real activity has occurred to date, but discussion issues
are expected. Over 240 members are in this and the ibis@vhdl.org groups.
No membership breakdown is available. Many countries are represented.
Also there is a new "wip" directory for work in progress under /pub/ibis
on vhdl.org to be used for temporarily storing working documents. Currently
a draft of Version 3.0 exists which includes approved BIRD28.3 and BIRD30.2.
FACE TO FACE MEETING
Syed Huq has made arrangements for National to host the meeting on Monday,
January 29 before SuperCon96. He has scheduled a room, equipment and food.
He is planning for about 35-40. This meeting will be focused on technical
discussions. A group dinner is planned to celebrate the standardization
of IBIS.
AR - Syed Huq post details on meeting and request an RSVP for planning
purposes. [Done]
Will Hobbs discussed devoting a portion of time to the modeling validation
concerns that exist in semiconductor companies, particularly in relations
to on-going production testing. The problem is how to verify in the
testers that the components meet the predictions of the models - what to
measure, how many points on a V/I curve are sufficient, etc. Can and/or
should IC vendors guarantee by test that the models accurately bracket
the silicon characteristics? Intel and National will participate in this,
but other vendors are encouraged to give their experiences and concerns as
well.
Another important segment is to seek actual users of IBIS models and ask
them to present their experiences and problems. IBIS participants who
are users or who have worked with users are encouraged to seek their
participation. Several members indicated that they will follow through
on this.
Syed Huq did a direct polling of roster members and found that 7 supported
IBIS Version 2.1 and 7 supported Version 1.1. His concern was that some
Version 2.1 level models will not work properly at lower levels and
encouraged EDA Vendor Discussion of their IBIS Verison 2.1 plans. Such
a discussion can also be tied in with the general modeling issue discussion.
People who have topics to present should summit them to Bob Ross, Syed Huq
or Will Hobbs. Bob, Syed and Will will coordinate the agenda.
AR - Everyone solicit participation by IBIS Users.
AR - Anyone who wants to present notify Bob, Syed or Will.
MODEL USAGE TRACKING
Will Hobbs mentioned Intel has IBIS models on their bulletin board, but
is not aware of any usage tracking activities. Syed Huq stated that
National IBIS models are available from the external National Web site:
//www.nationalsemi.com
They are trying to find a way to track models usage.
GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE
Jon Powell created the executables for ibischk2, and Bob Ross put them
on vhdl.org. Will Hobbs has sent out the final version of source code.
Several problems have been discovered by Bob Ross and Chris Rokusek which
will require a revised bug-fix release. Our intent is to capture all
of the bugs and do an update in January. These problems will be sent to
Paul Munsey for review and a quote on fixing the problems.
AR - Anyone finding Parser bugs submit them to Bob Ross. Include a test
case, if possible.
So far the bugs are (1) not accepting multiple [Disclaimer] keywords,
(2) giving an incorrect Warning message when metric unit multipliers
are used for [Define Package Model] matrix entries, and (3) not detecting
a syntax error for incorrect [Model] sub-parameters "Model_type=",
"Polarity=", and "Enable=".
SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1
Bob Ross reported that he has submitted some bugs and enhancement requests
on s2ibis-v2.091 (a Beta version). Since this is a Beta version an update
is expected.
BIRD31 - Connector Models
Bob Ross introduced BIRD31. The primary aspects are that it relies on
existing syntax and introduces no new keywords or sub-parameters. It
is a new section which will follow the Package Modeling Section in the
Specification. The controversial aspect of this proposal is that
connectors would be split into two parts for each board. They would
be joined by Simulator specification which "mates" the models by
series concatenation.
Hank Herrman of AMP expressed concern that "mated models" representing
connectors are not easily split, nor are they necessarily meaningful
in a split mode, which represents unconnected connector. So an alternative
proposal will be a "mated connector model" by itself. Dave Moxely suggested
that Components which are for connector pins could be designated by a
"mated model" keyword.
The BIRD did not address cables, but one possiblility is that cables could
be represented by mated models as longer connectors.
Hank also would like to see a parameter that specifies the bandwidth
or minimum time response for which a connector is valid because models
of increased complexity are needed for higher speed applications.
Bob Ross will write up some of the discussion and carry this on the
reflector and at the Face-to-Face Meeting.
BIRD28.3+ PACKAGE MODEL ENHANCEMENT
Stephen Peters has reviewed C. Kumar's extension and now sees the merits
of adding a pin ordering file and Matrix name parameter for extending
the package model. Kumar reported that one benefit will be to call
smaller matrices that are used often, for a more compact description.
This would allow a more general set of coupling relationships.
C. Kumar plans to submit to Will Hobbs a new BIRD on this.
Another discussion included generalizing the loss model to include the
G matrix, since it may become more factor in MCMs, package models,
cables with dielectric losses. This would take another BIRD.
EGG8 - PHYSICAL PACKAGE DISCUSSION
Bob Ross introduced the subject of EGG8 which would be a significant
departure for just the IBIS I/O models scope. Will Hobbs expressed the
concern that one of the biggest modeling issues is how to describe MCMs
and SIMM packages. So this proposal is of great interest to the IBIS
community and needs to be pursued. A discussion at the next meeting
can be reserved for this issue.
DCL RELATIONSHIP WITH IBIS
Don Cottrell of CFI reported that Ron Christopher has identified areas where
the Delay Calculation Language (DCL) and IBIS may be related. DCL needs
loading conditions for correct delays, and IBIS can be of help. DCL focuses
on delays within an MCM or Chip.
He requested that someone on the IBIS committee be identified to work
with him and the DCL community on any joint common ground issues and help
generate possible proposals. Stephen Peters voluteered to get involved
and report back on progress.
EGG6 - TTL and CMOS
Chris Rokusek indicated that the efforts to distinguish technologies by
the data itself suggested by Arpad Muranyi and others does not always work.
His major concern is that to simulate the rising edge of a TTL model,
it is voltage source driven, versus a current source driven for CMOS and
pulldown characteristics. ECL type structures are already differentiated
by Model_type. He will present his findings on the reflector to stimulate
discussion an consideration of alternatives.
DEPLETION CAPACITANCE
Bob Ross indicated that the depletion capacitance issue which has been
discussed in the past is ripe for an Egg to generate more discussion. He
plans to submit one.
NEXT MEETING:
It is set on Friday, December 15, 1995, and the following meeting is on
Friday, January 12, 1996 after the Christmas and New Years Holidays.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210
will_hobbs@ccm.jf.intel.com
Server Chipset System Validation Manager, Intel Corp.
2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA
VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
SECRETARY: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469
bob@icx.com
10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
The following email addresses are used:
ibis-request@vhdl.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@vhdl.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@vhdl.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements.
ibis-users@vhdl.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns.
Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from
telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an email request to the automatic
archive server, archive@vhdl.org.
"IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for
use at trade shows.
==============================================================================
Received on Tue Dec 5 16:06:15 1995
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