DATE: June 12, 1996
SUBJECT: 6/7/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP Hank Herrmann*, Tim Minnick (phone)*,
Russ Moser*
Cadence Design C. Kumar*
Contec CAE, Ltd. Dileep Divekar, Norio Matsui,
Antonis Orphanou*
Cypress Bruce Wenniger
Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan*, Henry Wu
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli
INCASES Olaf Rethmeier, Ralf Bruening*
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*,
John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet,
Donald Telian, Jim Kruchowski
Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross*
Meta-Software (Sanjay Gangal)
Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen*
Motorola Ahmed Omer*
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Donald Snyder, Chune-Sin Yeh,
Bill Aronson*
NCR (formerly ATT-GIS) Dave Moxley (phone)*, Richard Mellitz
NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto),
Quad Design Jon Powell*, Chris Rokusek*
Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala,
Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps
Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun)
UniCAD Canada Ltd. Celso Faia*
VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer*, Sung Oh, Swami Gangadharan,
Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery, D.C. Sessions*
Zuken-Redac (John Berrie)
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996:
Alcatel John Fitzpatrick
Altera Vadim von Brzeski
Apteq Design System Dan FitzPatrick
Compaq Mark Leonard
Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu
EIA Patti Rusher*
IC Works Eric Chen
Micron Technology Brian Johnson
MicroSim Ralph Perez
Molex Gus Panella
North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer)
Oki Semiconductor Tom Chao
Philips Semiconductor Mike Magdaluyo
Rockwell Collins Thomas Thurman
S3, Inc. Sarathy Sribhashyam*, Phap Duong
Seimans Nixdorf Arnaud Lacariere
Symmetry Andy Hughes*
Tektronix, Inc. Brock Hannibal
TRW & Free Model Foundation Robert Harrison
Veribest Ian Dodd*, David Wiens
VTC, Inc. Bob Ward*
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principle
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
6/28/96 (916) 356-9200 2-78902 4366478
7/19/96 (916) 356-9200 2-78903 6186335
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS
Will Hobbs called the meeting to order and complemented Jon Powell for the
Buttons and Placards. The attendees introduced themselves. New attendees
for 1996 included D.C. Sessions of VLSI, Bob Ward of VTC, Inc., Russ Moser
of AMP, Bill Aronson of National Semiconductor, Antonis Orphanou of Contec,
Andy Hughes of Symmetry, Hoang Nguyen of Mitsubishi, and Ralf Brueing of
INCASES. Twenty five people attended from eighteen different organizations.
EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Patti Rusher did not have updated figures, but estimates the treasury at
about $6000 after DAC expenses. She has requested a formal monthly report.
Both Veribest and Digital Equipment Corporation are expected to join as soon
as payment is received on their invoices. Payment has not been received from
Quantic and Tanner, so they have been dropped from membership status.
MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
No Corrections.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
The 1996 Proceedings of the 46th Electronic Components & Technology Conference,
May 28-31, 1996 contains a paper by Peivand Tehraini, Yuzhe Chen, and Jiayuan
Fang on "Extraction of Transient Behavioral Model of Digital I/O Buffers from
IBIS".
VLSI is considering Web access for their models, but they are currently
available through direct contact. Also, ICS, Inc. has IBIS models.
NEW MODELS
None reported.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Will Hobbs for International Efforts
Patti Rusher for DAC97
INTERNATIONAL STANDARDIZATION
Will Hobbs summarized the recent international efforts to date. An Express
representation is required to move forward. The experts at the University
of Manchester estimate an upper limit of 2 months effort to upgrade IBIS
Version 2.0 to Version 2.1 with documentation suitable for review. The
rate for such effort is $6000 per month. Patti Rusher said that there were
efforts to obtain this money.
Patti summarized the steps toward international standardization. Since
IBIS is a formal ANSI standard it is ready to be forwarded as a new work
item proposal to IEC once an Express representation is available. Then it
will be assigned to a working group and would probably take about 2-1/2
years to reach adoption because of the time necessary to poll the member
countries. A faster model for standardization is being adopted since
technology life cycles can be much shorter.
Ian Dodd mentioned that David Wiens submitted concerns about IBIS inclusion
of EDIF 4 0 0. Patti reported that the comments had been received.
DAC97 (DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE)
Patti Rusher reported much interest in IBIS at the Standards booth and will
forward the names of people requesting information. The IBIS sign attracted
attention and the unified appearance promoted unity among standards. The
booth was professionally designed as opposed to the ad-hoc appearance of last
year. Thank you Patti for a job well done. Jon Powell would like to see EIA
IBIS members listed next year, and Patti thought that would fit in well.
We generally agreed to participate in the Standards Booth in 1997. Jon
mentioned other ideas including a separate static display for IBIS and hot
Web page links. Karl Kachigan stated that that was effective at DAC.
EIA AWARDS
The following organizations received award placards for outstanding service
in promoting IBIS Models and Utilities.
National Semiconductor for providing IBIS models, presented to Syed Huq
Intel Corporation for providing IBIS models, presented to Arpad Muranyi
HyperLynx for providing the "winibis" plotting utility (Kellee Chrisafulli)
North Carolina State University for providing "s2ibis" and "s2iplt" utilities
(Steve Lipa, Alan Glaser, Michael Steer, Paul Franzon)
Also, Will Hobbs received a placard for outstanding service as chair of the
EIA/IBIS Committee.
ELECTIONS OF OFFICERS FOR 1996/1997
Will Hobbs indicated that he will be on sabbatical for several months and
and declined to serve as chair for next year. He summarized the duties
of all positions and asked for nominations.
The following new officers were nominated and elected:
Chair: Bob Ross, Interconnectix, Inc.
Vice-Chair: Syed Huq, National Semiconductor
Secretary: None
Librarian: Jon Powell, Quad Design
Bob indicated that we are searching for a Secretary, but some of the duties
can be divided among the officers. Syed will continue his fine work managing
and upgrading the EIA IBIS Web site, and Jon indicated that he plans to expand
the Librarian role to provide links to other IBIS model locations.
BIRD36 - BOARD LEVEL COMPONENT DESCRIPTION (To Be Submitted)
Will Hobbs started the discussion by stating the Stephen Peters held an
on site Package Committee meeting on 6/6/96 with Jon Powell, Hank Herrmann,
C. Kumar, Ian Dodd, and Bob Ross. Stephen had to return home, but the
meeting continued. The subsequent discussion changed the direction of
BIRD36 back to a prior position.
Bob Ross started the technical discussion by presenting an overview:
1. Currently IBIS deals with electrical component descriptions to be used
with physical board descriptions (PBD). Typically a number of vendor specific
formats are used for PBDs, but EDIF 4 0 0 also provides a standardized format.
Most EDA tools provide electrical processing of PBDs and IBIS models. The
.ibs file contains package information which can exist within the .ibs file
or can exist in a separate .pkg file for Version 2.1 matrices and BIRD28.3
extensions. Even with extensions, the package description is for a single
pin only.
2. There are two overlapping proposals regarding extensions. The first is
BIRD36 covering the other extreme - an electrical board description (EBD).
It deals with PATHS which can connect multiple pins and internal nodes. These
internal nodes can reference IBIS model pins. The EBD is intended to provide
electrical characteristics of SIMMs, MCMs, and also electrical stubs where the
physical board has not been designed. At the lowest level, the EBD can be
used for connector, cable and socket models because they are usually direct
two-pin paths.
The second is BIRD31.3, the Mated Models proposal which extends BIRD28.3 to
cover direct, two-pin paths only. It would not require the addition of
PATH syntax, but would be limited in its scope. Because of some advanced
connector designs, Hank Herrmann favors the BIRD36 approach to avoid having
two methods to provide the same information.
So the Package Committee proposal is to focus on BIRD36 and have it include
mated models.
3. Both the .pkg file and the EBD (.ebd) handle discrete LRC components,
distributed LRC components, MATRIX functionality (including coupling), and
sections. The EBD also adds PATHS, PINS, NODES, FORKS, Tedge_rate and Cpad.
Stephen Peters has indicated that he would like FORKS added to the .pkg
file. The EBD would reside in a separate file. However, it could contain
IBIS components within, or it could reference IBIS components in .ibs files
in the same directory. (Simulator companies could extend this to include
search paths to other directories.) So it is possible that a .ebd file
references a component in a .ibs file which references a package description
in a .pkg file. The details and BIRD36 syntax need to be worked out. Even
internal paths between components are permitted within EBDs.
4. EBDs can connect to other EBDs and to PBDs. It is permitted to have
PBDs connected by connector EBDs. Or connector EBDs can connect other EBDs
EBDs and PBDs. Or EBDs can contain within it the connector or socket EBD.
Currently, the PentiumPro IBIS model has a package description that includes
its always present socket. However, this device could also be attached
through an EBD socket. The boundaries of all physical connections extend
to the physical surfaces of the devices.
5. There is still a need to investigate all of the possible connection
scenarios to be sure that all the cases are covered. There are limits to
how well the EBD will characterize MCMs and complicated boards since its
individual coupled matrix capability is limited. In such cases, the PCB
approach should be used. The EBD is not intended for large boards.
In the discussion that followed, Hank Herrmann mentioned the need to support
unloaded sockets, such as an unpopulated SIMM socket. Hank also stressed
that Tedge_rate be defined in BIRD36 similar to BIRD31.3 to set the accuracy
range. Distributed models need to be used, if specified, so that the
structurally smallest Tedge_rate limit can be applied without numerical
degradation. The 20-80% definition should be used. C. Kumar added that
Tedge_rate can be used for optimal model selection.
AR - Stephen Peters (and Bob Ross) submit BIRD36.1 with changes reflecting
the Package Committee agreement and ensuring that the BIRD31.3 functionality
is fully included.
AR - Stephen Peters submit an upgrade to approved BIRD28.3 to include forks
and endforks.
The other Package Birds were discussed briefly.
BIRD31.3 - Mated Models is expected to be dropped pending the outcome of
BIRD36.1.
BIRD32 - Additional Enhancement to the Package Model contains some technical
complexities which are currently being shelved.
BIRD33 - Physical representation was voted NO. The IBIS committee had already
agreed upon a position recommended by the Package Committee that EDIF 4 0 0
should be supported as the physical description format.
PRIORITIES AND WISHES FOR VERSION 3.0
Will Hobbs used some available time for discussion of this topic with respect
to the proposed Version 3.0 release by the end of the year. Arpad Muranyi
asked what was needed for Version 3.0. The discussion included model selection
(BIRD 30.2 - approved), package extensions (BIRD28.3+), electrical board
descriptions (BIRD36), multi-staged switching (pending BIRD35), stored charge
effects (pending BIRD 34.1), and possibly feedback, scaling, and thresholds.
Feedback can be voltage or time based. It could be time or voltage related.
However, the mechanisms tend to be proprietary, making formulating a proposal
difficult. There was some discussion on whether some scaling mechanism coupled
with voltage or resistor sensing could provide static or controlled feedback.
Threshold extensions including overshoot limits could be added via the BIRD
process.
Bus-hold effects were also mentioned. At the January IBIS summit we learned
that these effects produced almost insignificant corrections in the 100 uA
range. If they are time based, they might be included in BIRD35 Multi-staged
extensions.
VALIDATION DISCUSSION
Russ Moser presented a position that by corporate policy AMP and other
companies must give the best models possible. This forces internal validation
policies. It is difficulty to validate "IBIS" connector models without
internal IBIS processing tools. He speculated that other companies might be
reluctant to release models that have not been validated.
BIRD35 - MULTI-STAGED OUTPUTS
Bob Ross briefly discussed this proposal for providing within a single
model the ability to have multiple V/I and V/T tables. All the V/T tables
would have the same reference time. This proposal reflects actual device
architecture, although creating actual tables might be difficult because
of interactions. Arpad Muranyi questioned whether the existing V/T method
was adequate. Jon Powell will provide specific examples where multi-
staged models are necessary to give the correct answer. One example has the
switching outputs drawn from one voltage reference, and the stable DC level
from another voltage reference. C. Kumar argued that it is possible to link
existing models together to create effective multi-staged switching through
scripts. However, D.C. Sessions and Dick Ulmer preferred that all of the
switching mechanisms be contained within a single model.
AR - Jon Powell submit examples of simulation behaviors that require
multi-staged models [Done].
BIRD34.1 - STORED CHARGE EFFECTS
Bob Ross summarized the Spice program differences sent out. Both programs
cover identical cases, but one program uses a transmission line model similar
to actual situations where glitches are produced, while the other represents
a 50 ohm source and load test circuit which would be easier to extract the
data. The first circuit shows nearly exact agreement, while the second
circuit has more error when clamp tables are used due to some numerical
artifacts related to derivative sensitivity.
Effective TT parameters are proposed for [Gnd Clamp] and [Power Clamp]
tables, and BIRD34.1 shows mathematical relationships to the non-linear
capacitance.
Jon Powell had shown earlier that a TT and a voltage variable capacitance
produced the same effects. D.C. Sessions and others argued that perhaps a
Capacitance vs. Voltage table would be preferred to supplement or replace
C_comp.
EGG10 - PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING
Chris Rokusek stated that he still plans to provide some numerical values for
the proposed warning limits for ibischk2.
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting is on Friday, June 28, 1996 8:00 A.M. to 10:00 A.M. Syed
Huq will Chair the meeting since Bob Ross will be out.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
bob@icx.com
Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix, Inc.
10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
huq@rockie.nsc.com
Product Marketing Manager, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
SECRETARY: Vacant
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
ibis-request@vhdl.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@vhdl.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@vhdl.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements.
ibis-users@vhdl.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns.
ibischk-bug@vhdl.org
To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from
telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic
archive server, archive@vhdl.org.
"IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for
use at trade shows.
==============================================================================
Received on Wed Jun 12 11:06:56 1996
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