DATE: September 30, 1996
SUBJECT: 9/27/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP Hank Herrmann*, Tim Minnick, Russ Moser,
Ray Ziesse*
Applied Simulation Technology Dileep Divekar*, Norio Matsui, Antonis Orphanou
(formerly Contec)
Cadence Design C. Kumar
Cypress Bruce Wenniger
Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli
INCASES Olaf Rethmeier, Ralf Bruening
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*,
John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet,
[Donald Telian], Jim Kruchowski
Interconnectix, Inc. Bob Ross*, Chris Reid
Meta-Software (Sanjay Gangal)
Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
Motorola Ahmed Omer*
National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Donald Snyder, Chune-Sin Yeh,
Bill Aronson
NCR (formerly ATT-GIS) Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz
NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto),
Quad Design Jon Powell*, Chris Rokusek*
Quantic Laboratories (Mike Ventham)
Texas Instruments Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala,
Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps
Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun)
UniCAD Canada Ltd. Celso Faia*
Veribest Ian Dodd, David Wiens
VLSI Technology Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh, Swami Gangadharan,
Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery, D.C. Sessions,
Hrish Patel
Zuken-Redac (John Berrie)
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996:
3M Fran Hart*
Alcatel John Fitzpatrick
Altera Vadim von Brzeski
Apteq Design System Dan FitzPatrick
Compaq Mark Leonard
Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu*
EIA Patti Rusher*
IC Works Eric Chen
Mentor Graphics Kim Owen
Micron Technology Brian Johnson
MicroSim Ralph Perez
Molex Gus Panella
North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer)
Oki Semiconductor Tom Chao
Philips Semiconductor Mike Magdaluyo
Rockwell Collins Thomas Thurman
S3, Inc. Sarathy Sribhashyam, Phap Duong
Seimans Nixdorf Arnaud Lacariere
Symmetry Andy Hughes
Tektronix, Inc. Brock Hannibal
TRW & Free Model Foundation Robert Harrison
VTC, Inc. Bob Ward
Zeelan Technology George Opsahl
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principle
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who have joined another organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
10/18/96 (916) 356-9200 3-54605 8249548
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out
7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS
Fran Hart from 3M joined. She is in the Electrical Products Group in Texas
working with connectors, cables, and flex circuits. She provides the
Spice models of connectors and cables, chip carriers and interconnects. Her
current interest is in ground plane analysis. She is investigating IBIS
is concerned about too much variation between the Spices.
Dileep Divekar announced that Contec now has become Applied Simulation
Technology, but remains the same. The roster and attendees list has been
updated.
EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Jeff Chu reported that the DEC membership payment is progressing internally.
Bob Ross reported receiving Patti Rusher's August 1996 IBIS ledger report.
It shows $9,285, not change from last month. Patti indicated that some
shared EIA expenses will be deducted before the end of the year.
MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
No corrections. All AR's were completed.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS and WEB PAGE UPDATES
Jon Powell reported the EDN, September 26, 1996, pp. 97-104, has and article
"Solving signal-integrity problems in high-speed digital systems" which
gives several references to IBIS. This article (minus a few paragraphs)
was taken from Jon's presentation at Design SuperCon96 (co-sponsored by EDN).
(Also, Greg Edlund wrote in EDN, July 18, 1996, pp. 111-124, " Noise budgets
help maintain signal integrity in low-voltage systems" and advocated IBIS
and Spice models. This article was also adapted from Greg's presentation
at Design SuperCon96.)
Bob Ross has put a Word Version of the final draft (before editorial revision)
of the EE Times article (September 2, 1996) "IBIS standards provides I/O
buffer models" on vhdl.org as
/pub/ibis/documents/eet96.doc
for downloading. Permission has been granted to do this.
Syed Huq plans to convert the EE Times article into HTML and provide access
through the EIA/IBIS home page.
Fran Hart wanted access to the BIRD documents. Syed Huq plans to provide
a link to the bird directory from the EIA/IBIS home page. There already
is access directly from the http://vhdl.org/pub/ibis/birds.
Arpad Muranyi and Bob worked on downloading some older document files
(overview.*) and found some of them corrupted with ^M data. This included
the *.ps, *.rtf and .wfw files. John Powell indicated that file uploading
is very dependent on what OS was being used. He will investigate the
document files and work with Bob if any change is needed (revise or remove).
Bob also reports that the contacts.txt document is updated whenever new
information or changes are received. Similarly the roster.txt is updated
immediately. Now is a good time to review your entry and submit updates
(or new roster information) to Bob. The address is at the top of the roster.
NEW MODELS
Arpad Muranyi will work with Jon Powell concerning an Intel update on the
readme file for three new models under NDA. Stephen Peters also submits
Intel readme information, but only for his area (PentiumPro, etc.).
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Patti Rusher regarding DAC97 planning.
DAC97 PLANNING (AND OTHER MEETINGS)
Patti Rusher will be sending out letters to the heads of the various groups
within EIA regarding participation plans for the Design Automation conference
in June, 1997 in Anaheim, California. This discussion will be put of the
agenda for the next meeting.
National has offered to host the Design SuperCon97 IBIS meeting in Santa Clara
California in late January 1997 on the Monday prior the conference. Other
companies are welcome to offer hosting (or co-hosting) the event. It was very
successful with about 45 very top-level participants.
Will Hobbs indicated that it would be fair to hold some East Coast meetings
since nearly all of the IBIS meetings have been on the West Coast. Fran Hart
from Austin Texas thought that central USA might be a nice compromise!
EIA/JAPAN - IBIS WORKING GROUP
Bob Ross reported making contact with Hideki Fukuda of Hitachi who is in the
Semiconductor Standardization Committee in EIAJ. The task group is surveying
I/O interface models from the IC supplier's point of view. Bob has provided
IBIS information, Hideki plans to keep Bob informed of the activities.
Jon Powell and Arpad Muranyi reported other possible individuals. Patti
Rusher works with higher level EIAJ individuals who would be aware of any
serious new I/O buffer standardization efforts. EIAJ works with EIA, and EIA
has international membership. IBIS is proceeding in the International arena,
and Patti sees no serious parallel effort.
IEC EXPRESS FUNDING PROGRESS
Patti Rusher reports that IBIS has been submitted as a work item in IEC
(International Electrotechnical Commission) in TC-93. She will receive
confirmation that it has been accepted next week. The next step is for
ANSI/EIA-656 (IBIS Version 2.1) to be forwarded to the standards bodies in
of each member nation for formal voting.
So funding for an Express format of IBIS is not needed at this time. Patti
is working on a larger proposal to submit to DARPA related to a component
information management system where users can select information from a
component database. Standardized models could be part of the database. So
any future funding proposals may reside within this larger proposal.
Consequently, she is not pursuing the smaller standards cleanup proposal.
BIRD34.1 - STORED CHARGE EFFECT (Vote)
Bob Ross summarized that BIRD34.1 introduces two new optional keywords [TTgnd]
and [TTpower] under [Model]. These allow a first order approximation of the
stored charge glitch seen in practice. It is also seen in Spice simulations
of unterminated, clamped transmission lines when the optional TT parameter is
in in the Spice clamping diode modle. The new keywords are associated
with [Gnd Clamp] and [Power Clamp] tables, respectively.
Stephen Peters provided a minor editorial change. Bob received a correction
regarding Zo and TD values. Arpad Muranyi wanted "nS" changed to "ns" to
be consistent with the rest of IBIS. Arpad also reported that some of the
"txt" figures were misaligned. Dileep Divekar questioned whether the
test circuit in BIRD34.1 actually forward biased the diode to produce the
effect. Bob confirmed that it did based on the impedance mismatches and
corresponding reflections, and also based on actual Spice simulation.
BIRD34.1 was approved by unanimous vote with the above changes.
AR - Bob Ross issue approved BIRD34.2 containing the above corrections and
upgrade the "work in progress" version of IBIS in the /pub/ibis/wip directory
to include BIRD34.2.
SPECIFICATION COMMITTEE REPORT
Jon Powell reported on the first meeting. The mission is to deal with any
parameter that does not effect actual performance of signal integrity or
timing simulations. Thus the thresholds Vinh, Vinl and the timing references
fall within the Specification domain. This group is discussing pulse width
noise immunity, input threshold extensions including hysteresis, overshoot
extensions including research on overshoot vs. time specification and other
areas. This group consisting of Jon Powell, Jon Fitzpatrick, Ahmed Omer,
and Bob Ross already has BIRD38 and other proposals. It expects to come
to agreement and issue one or more specification BIRDs for IBIS Committee
consideration.
Arpad Muranyi and Jon raised the question regarding how IBIS pending
specifications on overshoot relate to those in RAIL. Ahmed Omer and felt
that RAIL related to the net specification, whereas IBIS is related to the
part itself. Bob felt that the RAIL specification might override and
IBIS specification in processing, but the actual handling would be
simulator dependent - e.g., report an error or have one override the other.
However, the designer might purposely specify tighter rules in RAIL
corresponding to the weakest device rather than rely on device limits in
IBIS. Thus the consensus was that there is no conflict. IBIS should
proceed to consider including all relevant device related specification
parameters.
EGG10 - PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING
Bob Ross started the discussion by going over Chris Rukusek's suggestions
that he mailed.
Suggestion 5 related to setting Ramp, package, and C_comp value limits
which would trigger flags. Arpad Muranyi and others felt that some of
the limits were too tight based on some non-typical, but practical
applications of IBIS. One suggestion is to increase the trigger values
by three or six orders of magnitudes related to someone forgetting to put
in units or for putting in extreme values.
Will Hobbs and others suggested considering a configuration table or some
other method so that the user could adjust the limits depending on the
application.
Bob stated that the proposal could be for ibis_chk (Version 1.1),
ibischk2 (Version 2.1 which also includes the complete copy of ibis_chk
for Version 1.1 checking). or a future ibischk3.x for future IBIS. One
could also consider a separate utility for reality checking rather than
work the logistics of retrofitting these older versions.
The revised values for approximately three orders of magnitude are:
C_comp 1 nF
Pin C 1 nF
Pin L 1 uH
Pin R 1 k
Ramp Times 1 ms
Suggestion 3 related to defining when a diode has suspiciously large
to warrant a warning message. The 10A, 1.5V limit seemed reasonable.
Chis reported that he had seen this limit exceeded in only several IBIS
files on vhdl.org, and these curves were suspicious. This setting would
also fall within the configuration discussion.
Suggestion 2 related to testing the waveform data endpoints with the
I/V table data to assure consistency. There was general agreement to
do this.
Suggestion 1 related to a robust testing of I/V table polarities. Chris
felt that the intent of the test was already being handled sufficiently
by ibischk2 since it will issue a report based on endpoint polarity
difference errors.
Suggestion 4 related to some number of points and curvature detection
test so that unstable numerical artifacts are flagged. There was much
resistance to this because of the trickiness to determine the proper values.
Plus, different simulators using different algorithms may have their unique
sensitivities. So this suggestion is dropped.
Bob and others thru discussion indicated that the next step is for Chris
to work through the PARSER BUG REPORT process to take the results of this
discussion and put forth a proposal for changing the parser. The BIRD
process is used for actual specification changes. The items in EGG10 relate
to ibischk parser enhancements and relate to issuing warning messages.
AR - Chris Rokusek submit a proposal capturing the above directions in one
or more IBIS GOLDEN PARSER BUG REPORT FORMs - as enhancement requests. For
now, it should relate only to the golden parser. In the proposal, it is
Chris' option whether to consider configuration tables or some other
universal method, or just propose hard coded values since the Forum did not
indicate any preference during the discussion.
BIRD37.2 - ENHANCEMENT OT THE PACKAGE MODEL SPECIFICATION
Stephen Peters recently issued BIRD37.2. It basically changes the approved
BIRD28.3 by adding Fork and End Fork statements. It also removes the
controversial Matrix extensions - thereby amending and superseding BIRD28.3.
This is based on last meetings guidance that a controversial extension was
worse than no extension. This does not prohibit considering cascaded
sections in the future based on further understanding and agreement.
Bob Ross had some minor editorial changes that do not effect the content
of BIRD37.2. A vote on BIRD37.2 is planned at the next meeting.
BIRD36 - ELECTRICAL BOARD DESCRIPTION
Steve Peters felt that BIRD36 is stalled for a number of reasons. It also
contains the cascaded Matrix extensions that were dropped in BIRD37.2.
Plus there may be discomfort with the extensive syntax. Stephen proposed
reconvening the Package Committee task group to reconsider BIRD36. The
same members are expected to join. Also Fran Hart and Ahmed Omer indicated
interest in joining. Everyone is welcome to join.
AR - Stephen Peters get the telephone bridge numbers and send out a message
on vhdl.org announcing the details of the Package Committee meetings.
BIRD35.1 - MULTI-STAGED OUTPUTS
Bob Ross still plans to produce BIRD35.2 taking into account Jon Powell's
sample syntax and IBIS syntax.
AR - Bob Ross produce BIRD35.2 before next meeting.
NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting is on Friday, October 18, 1996, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
BIRD37.2 is scheduled for vote.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
bob@icx.com
Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix, Inc.
10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
huq@rockie.nsc.com
Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
jonp@qdt.com
Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design
1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
SECRETARY: Vacant
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
ibis-request@vhdl.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@vhdl.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@vhdl.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements.
ibis-users@vhdl.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns.
ibischk-bug@vhdl.org
To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from
telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic
archive server, archive@vhdl.org.
"IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for
use at trade shows.
==============================================================================
Received on Mon Sep 30 17:03:50 1996
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