Subject: [IBIS] Minutes of IBIS meeting 11/01/02
From: deBurgh, Guy (guy_deburgh@mentorg.com)
Date: Wed Nov 06 2002 - 12:01:12 PST
DATE: 11/06/02
SUBJECT: November 1, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer Kim Helliwell
Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui
Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang,
Mike LaBonte, Todd Westerhoff
Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat)
Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong)
IBM Greg Edlund, Pravin Patel
Innoveda (Merged with Mentor John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh, Steve Gascoigne
Graphics)
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs,
Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis,
Michael Mirmak
LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik
Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd, Mike Donnelly,
Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, [Tom Dagostino],
Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet, Kevin Cohan
Micron Technology Randy Wolff*
Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella
Motorola Rick Kingen
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz*
NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya)
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda
Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions)
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Eckhard Lenski
Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz, Walter Katz, Robert Moles,
Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher, Steve Coe,
Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock,
Bob Haller*
Sigrity Raj Raghuram
SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin
Teraspeed (Scott McMorrow), Tom Dagostino
Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre, Ralf Bruening
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002:
3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn
Actel Prabhu Mohan
Agilent Herbert Lage
Airbus Claude Huet
Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto
Apt Software Atul Agarwal
Astrium Olivier Prieur
Bee Technologies Corporation Tsuyoshi Horigome
Brocade Communications Robert Badal
Compaq Shafier-ur-Rahman
Conexant Arzu Simsek*
EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin
EFM Ekkehard Miersch
EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham
EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jeanne Hereth,
Elena Gutman, Julian Simbu
Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone
Force Computers Roger Sukiennik
Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler
Systems
Hatachi Nonoyama Sadahiro, Shoji Kazuyoshi
Japan Electronics and Kiyomi Daishido
Information Technology
Industries Association
(JEITA)
Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal
Communication
National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola)
Science (INSA) Etienne Sicard, Stephane Baffreau
Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer
Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines
Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. [Tsuyoshi Horigome]
Sintecs Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres
Synopsys (Avanti) (Hailong Wang)
TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro
Thales Saverio Lerose
Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick)
UTMC Greg Haynes
Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long
Independent Larry Barnes
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences
are as follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
November 22, 2002 (916) 356-2663 5 8435570
December 13, 2002 (916) 356-2663 3 5013842
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Arzu Simsek from Conexant Systems phoned in to learn more about the forum
and IBIS modeling.
CALL FOR PATENTS
Stephen Peters called for any patents or pending patents related to the
IBIS Version 4.0 Standard.
No companies declared a patent.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that the EIA has received a membership payment
from Apple Computer, bringing our current membership to 31 paid members.
We are still waiting on payment from one more company. Stephen also
reported that we are waiting on EIA to send us a proposed budget for 2003.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The September 20, 2002 minutes were approved without change.
The October 15, 2002 IBIS Summit Meeting Minutes were approved without
change.
The ARs were discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Lynne Green mentioned that she is doing a free IBIS Seminar on the internet
(webinar) on Wednesday, November 6, 2002 at 10:00 AM Pacific time on "IBIS
Modeling and Validation". For information and registration details see:
http://www.cadencepcb.com/webinar/modeling/frmmodeling.asp
Stephen Peters reiterated the EIA rules regarding discussion of commercial
product comparison, vendor specific plans or pricing on the IBIS reflector.
Such discussions should be conducted off line.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Stephen Peters reported that Syed Huq has updated both the Upcoming Events
page and the roster page. The main web page will, in the near future, also
be updated with a link that lists the contact information for the IBIS
officers.
Bob Ross noted that former IBIS Officer Jon Powell has published an article
How to Develop and IBIS Model in the October 2002 issue of Printed Circuit
Design magazine, pp. 24 - 27:
http://www.pcdmag.com/pdf/0210/0210feat4.pdf
Bob mentioned that an article "Simulation for the Suppression of PCB
Emissions in Digital Telematics Devices" by Scott Mee, Roy Leventhal,
Mike Ventham and Al Wexler is published in the November 2002 issue of Item
Update 2002, and mentions IBIS. Contact Roy for a copy.
Bob also noted that Mike Ventham pointed to an Electronics Weekly article
critical of IBIS where a number of active participants were quoted (link
split into two lines to avoid mailer truncation):
http://www.electronicsweekly.co.uk/issue/dailyview.asp?vpath=/articles
/2002/09/25/daily06.htm
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
None.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross asked to discuss a pending ibischk3 bug report (BUG77).
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
(formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters needs
to review the some comments on the Cookbook and Report document. Bob
Ross reported that he plans to attend EMC COMPO 2002 (3rd International
Workshop on Electromagnetic Compatibility of Integrated Circuits) in
Toulouse, France and present an introductory overview of "IBIS and ICEM".
PCB CONFERENCE EAST IBIS SUMMIT MEETING FEEDBACK
Stephen Peters asked for comments on the recently held IBIS East Summit
meeting. Bob Haller remarked that he thought the meeting went very well and
was very informative. He noted that the on-site portion of the meeting was
well attended and that they could have used a bigger room. Stephen asked
if there were any specific comments on the webcast. Bob Ross noted that
he received feedback from a participant overseas that the webcast made it
possible for him to attend. It was noted that having one host that
controlled the webcast works well. In response to a question from Arpad
Muranyi, it was noted that the room at NESA needs a better sound
reinforcement system.
DESIGNCON 2003 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING
Stephen Peters reported that planning is underway for the DesignCon2003 IBIS
Summit sponsored by DesignCon2003 and National Semiconductor. The summit is
scheduled for Monday, January 27, 2003 in Santa Clara, California at the
Westin Hotel adjacent to the Santa Clara Convention Center. This will be an
all day meeting. National Semiconductor is supplying the lunch, and
attendees should visit the upcoming events link on the IBIS web site and
sign up with Milt Schwartz.
As in past years IBIS has reserved a booth on the convention floor. Guy de
Burgh of Mentor Graphics has been asked to handle the booth logistics.
Finally, Stephen noted that first meeting announcement and call for
papers will be sent to the reflector later this month.
Arpad Muranyi asked if there was interest in setting up another webcast. The
webcast would accommodate folks from Europe or Japan that cannot attend the
summit in person. Stephen took the action item to look into securing a
network connection for the meeting room. Bob Ross remarked that paying for
this connection would be an opportunity for a member company to achieve
co-sponsorship of the summit.
Stephen took a quick poll of those present, asking who was planning on
attending. All the officers present stated that they were planning on
attending. Even with the tight economy, the consensus is that we should
expect between 50 and 60 attendees at the summit.
IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING ISSUES
Stephen Peters opened the discussion by announcing that Atual Agarwal has
been selected to develop ibischk4, the golden parser for IBIS version 4.0.
The winning bid was for $25,000 dollars. However, there is a problem with
funding the development effort. Stephen related that the funds the IBIS
Open Forum accumulated over the past couple of years through extra parser
sales and sales of the specification are not available to us. While it
appears that we will have a balance of approximately $1,000 at the end of
the year and the EIA will kick in an additional $4,000, the member companies
will have to contribute much more than was originally planned.
Stephen asked for ideas on how companies would like to fund the parser
development. Lynne Green stated that Cadence Design Systems has budgeted
$2,000 for ibischk4 parser development. Stephen asked if folks preferred
to do a general dues increase to cover parser development, but the consensus
is that we should ask for direct funding of the parser.
After further discussion, Arpad Muranyi suggested that Stephen write a
letter to the existing license holders (plus others) asking if they
are willing to license ibischk4 source code for a suggested $2,000 fee.
If this is too much, the letter should ask what amount is doable, and if
a company can pay more than $2,000. We will evaluate our options further
when we know how many companies can contribute.
IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE
Bob Haller reported that IBIS quality committee meetings were held on
September 24, October 8, October 15 (before the summit), and again on
October 22, 2002. Bob noted that Hitachi is now participating in quality
meetings (they also attended the IBIS East summit) and another company
was also considering going the group. Currently, the quality committee
is wrapping up documentation on the quality checklist and closing a few
remaining issues on the quality levels. They hope to have the final
documentation released in time for the summit in January.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE
Lynne Green reported that a revised terminator model from Philips has been
distributed.
NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES
None.
IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT
Stephen Peters stated that the draft revision 1.0 Interconnect Specification
(ICM specification) has been released to the full committee for review.
Michael Mirmak of Intel has provided a detail review and extensive comments
on the draft. Because of the already lengthy agenda, Stephen asked to defer
discussion on these comments until next meeting.
BIRD75.6 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support
BIRD77.1 - Differential Subparameter Additions
Bob Ross reported that a meeting was held with Arpad Muranyi and Michael
Mirmak to resolve some of the recent differences opinion expressed on the
IBIS reflector. The major concern was that the BIRDs as structured were not
positioned well for future expansion. They carried too much legacy
material. The result of the meeting is that Bob will co-author with Arpad,
Michael and Chris Reid of Mentor Graphics and a new BIRD75.7 and BIRD77.2
to capture the agreements.
The major change is the [External Model] will remain positioned as is, but
be used for legacy IBIS models only. [External Circuit] will expand to
include new model circuitry along with interconnect circuitry. A number of
other points have been resolved regarding port and node definitions, support
only for Berkeley SPICE, etc. Some other issues will be covered by other
BIRDs, but may not be that urgent. Bob stated that we will try to get the
new proposals out within the week, if possible.
Stephen Peters asked if the current keywords dealing with model
specifications ([Model Spec], [Receiver Threshold]) are legal under the
new [External Circuit] keyword. Arpad replied that model specifications
will be handled by a separate bird that addresses user defined parameters.
Arpad envisions specification parameters that are used much like how the
'measure' statements are used in HSPICE.
Bob noted that support for true differential buffers under [External Model]
is still an open issue. Bob also noted that adding the ICM language as a
choice under [External Circuit] is being discussed, but no commitment
has been made to include this feature in BIRD75.7.
Because of the extensive changes there was no vote taken at this meeting.
Assuming the revised bird is distributed before the 2 week deadline, Bob
would like to vote on BIRDS75.7 and BIRD77.2 at the November 22, 2002
meeting.
BIRD74.2 - EMI Parameters
Due to the absence of the BIRD's author discussion was postponed until
next meeting.
BIRD78 - Comment Line Length Limit
Lynne Green introduced BIRD78, noting that it resulted from a quality
committee discussion. The quality committee Would like to drop the rule
that limits line length to 80 characters in the case where the line
contains a comment (i.e. the comment can extend beyond the 80 character
limit). Stephen Peters asked for the rational, and Lynne replied that
the rule change is needed to allow for documentation of file names and URL
paths. Lynne suggested that a 256 character limit would be adequate.
Bob Ross noted that a 256 character limit is not now mentioned in the BIRD
and would have to be added. Bob also expressed a general concern regarding
adding exceptions to the exiting rule. There was some discussion on
the merits of not specifying a limit at all. Bob asked if it would be
better to follow the rules set forth in the interconnect modeling (ICM)
specification.
The question was raised that if we were removing the line length
restrictions on comment lines, why not do it for all lines -- i.e. remove
the length restrictions totally, including limits on column widths currently
specified by some keywords. The consensus was that while we may
want to remove the current 80 character limit and column limits, there was
merit in having some overall limit that would serve us better into the
future. Stephen remarked that this would require a separate BIRD from the
one now under consideration.
Lynne agreed to follow up with a revised BIRD (BIRD78.1) that would include
the 256 character limit. Lynne also agreed to look into authoring a BIRD
that would remove the current 80 character limit and column limits. Bob
cautioned that to cover all cases would involve extensive study and quite
a lengthy BIRD.
IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
Stephen Peters reported that one new BUG report need to be discussed and
classified, and two others require follow-up.
- BUG71 - Monotonic Checking for Combined I-V Tables
Per input from the forum and Bob Ross in particular the I-V table
combinations checked per model type have been defined. Lynne Green
raised an issue with I/O model type -- the power and gnd clamp tables
must be summed together and then summed with the pullup or puldown tables
as appropriate. Arpad Muranyi noted that the Input model cases needs
to be added to table. [Driver Schedule] and [Submodel] also need to
documented. The discussion emphasized that the combined table warnings
would replace existing warnings on separate tables. Bug is classified
as Enhancement, Low and Open. Bob Haller agreed to update the bug
report as specified above.
- BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages
Not covered due to lack of time.
- BUG76 - External Package Under Win32 Requires Writable Root
Stephen Peters introduced BUG76, which was reported by Alex Loehr of Zuken
In brief, in Win32 versions of the parser if an IBIS file contains an
external package a temporary file is created in the root directory of
the current drive. If the root directory is not writable the package
isn't found. Alex has supplied a proposed software patch to fix the
problem. Stephen proposed that this bug be classified as moderate, low,
and open. Agreed, but Lynne Green would like to discuss this bug further
at the next meeting.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, November 22, 2002 from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific time. A vote on BIRD75.7 and BIRD77.2 is
scheduled.
============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF4-215
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 788-4289
lgreen@cadence.com
Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems
20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
guy_deburgh@mentor.com
Senior Manager, Mentor Graphics
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398
roy.leventhal@ieee.org
Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications
1924 North Burke Drive
Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008
John_angulo@mentor.com
Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
majordomo@eda.org
In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector:
subscribe ibis <your e-mail address>
In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector:
subscribe ibis-users <your e-mail address>
Help and other commands:
help
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported
bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
============================================================================
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org
|with the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
| help
| subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different>
| subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a request to ibis-request@eda.org.
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b28 : Wed Nov 06 2002 - 12:19:22 PST