Subject: [IBIS] Nov 22, 2002 IBIS minutes
From: deBurgh, Guy (guy_deburgh@mentorg.com)
Date: Mon Nov 25 2002 - 16:55:44 PST
DATE: 11/25/02
SUBJECT: November 22, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer Kim Helliwell
Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui
Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems Syed Huq*, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang,
Mike LaBonte, Todd Westerhoff
Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat)
Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong)
IBM Greg Edlund, Pravin Patel*
Innoveda (Merged with Mentor John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh*, Steve Gascoigne
Graphics)
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs,
Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis,
Michael Mirmak*
LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik*
Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd, Mike Donnelly,
Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, [Tom Dagostino],
Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet, Kevin Cohan
Micron Technology Randy Wolff*
Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella
Motorola Rick Kingen
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz*
NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya)
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda
Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions)
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Eckhard Lenski
Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz, Walter Katz, Robert Moles,
Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher, Steve Coe,
Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock,
Bob Haller
Sigrity Raj Raghuram
SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin
Teraspeed (Scott McMorrow), Tom Dagostino
Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre, Ralf Bruening
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002:
3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn
Actel Prabhu Mohan
Agilent Herbert Lage
Airbus Claude Huet
Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto
Apt Software Atul Agarwal
Astrium Olivier Prieur
Bee Technologies Corporation Tsuyoshi Horigome
Brocade Communications Robert Badal
Compaq (Merged with HP) Shafiq Ur Rahman
Conexant Arzu Simsek
EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin
EFM Ekkehard Miersch
EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham
EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jeanne Hereth,
Elena Gutman, Simba Julian
Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone
Force Computers Roger Sukiennik
Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler
Systems
Hatachi Nonoyama Sadahiro, Shoji Kazuyoshi
Japan Electronics and Kiyomi Daishido
Information Technology
Industries Association
(JEITA)
Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal
Communication
National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola)
Science (INSA) Etienne Sicard, Stephane Baffreau
Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer
Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines
Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. [Tsuyoshi Horigome]
Sintecs Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres
Synopsys (Avanti) (Hailong Wang)
TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro
Thales Saverio Lerose
Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick)
UTMC Greg Haynes
Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long
Independent Larry Barnes
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences
are as follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
December 13, 2002 (916) 356-2663 3 5013842
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new introductions
CALL FOR PATENTS
Stephen Peters called for any patents or pending patents related to the
IBIS Version 4.0 Standard. No companies declared a patent.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that membership remains steady at 31 paid members,
however we did receive an inquire for membership from one more company.
Stephen also received the 2003 budget proposal from EIA. The budget
current projects a $4,100 overrun (expenses exceed income), but this is
based on a projected 25 members for next year.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The November 1, 2002 minutes were approved without change.
The ARs were discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Stephen Peters reported that Syed Huq has updated the web page with a
'contacts' link that lists the contact information for the IBIS officers.
The quality committee link was updated and a pointer to the DesignCon2003
program brochure was added under the upcoming events link. John Angulo
reported that Syed also fixed a broken link to the IBIS visual editor.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
None.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross added BUG78, Clamp Current Double Counting Test, to the agenda.
Michael Mirmak asked to discuss the draft ICM specification.
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
(formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters needs
to review the some comments on the Cookbook and Report document. Bob
Ross reported that he attended EMC COMPO 2002 (3rd International Workshop
on Electromagnetic Compatibility of Integrated Circuits) in Toulouse,
France and presented an introductory overview of "IBIS and ICEM". The
Workshop had about 80 attendees and had many interesting papers covering
measurement, parameter extraction and modeling.
DESIGNCON 2003 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING
Stephen Peters reported that planning continues for the DesignCon2003 IBIS
Summit sponsored by DesignCon2003 and National Semiconductor. The summit is
scheduled for Monday, January 27, 2003 in Santa Clara, California at the
Westin Hotel adjacent to the Santa Clara Convention Center. National
Semiconductor is supplying the lunch and Stephen reminded those planning
to attend to visit the IBIS web page under the upcoming events link and
sign up with Milt Schwartz.
Stephen Peters reported that Guy de Burgh will again be responsible for
setting up the IBIS booth at DesignCon. Stephen asked for the member
companies to review last years placards for logo updates. Stephen also
mentioned that he would again supply an IBIS flyer to hand out at the booth.
Bob Ross noted that last year we handed out extra copies of the summit
presentations to the booth visitors and this was well received. Stephen
suggested that we print up a few extra copies and do it again this year.
Lynne Green asked if we could have a flyer at the booth that lists the
IBIS links. Stephen will work with Lynne to incorporate this information
into the existing flyer.
Lynne Green reported that she and Arpad Muranyi have been working on the
logistics of a webcast. Lynne stated that a standard (modem speed)
connection costs $290, while the 'high speed' (t1) connection costs $870.
The standard connection will require that the presentation be loaded
from the webcast server to the local machine prior to the presentations.
Arpad Muranyi pointed out that the WebX webcast service does not allow for
voice and he has found another webcast company called Interwise which does.
There is a charge involved and Arpad is following up on this. Arpad
also requested the hotel contact information from Lynne so that he could
find out the details of the modem connection.
Finally, Stephen noted that the following individuals have signed up to
present at the summit (presentation titles are tentative)
- Stephen Peters, IBIS Report
- Dima Smolysansky, TDA Systems, TBD
- Barry Katz, Signal Integrity Software, Quality Committee Report
Other presentations are encouraged.
IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING ISSUES
Stephen Peters reported that he has sent a letter to the current parser
license holders asking if they will be able to support funding of the
new parser development by purchasing a license for IBIS 4.0 at an
expected price of about $2,000. One company responded positively to the
letter, and another two have contacted Stephen privately to state that
they will provide financial support. In addition, Stephen received
an inquiry for a parser license from another company, for a total of
five companies. Stephen stated that his target was ten companies
offering financial support. Stephen noted that Lynne Green will be
following up with a letter to the entire membership, and Stephen
will also be making phone calls.
IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE
Lynne Green reported that IBIS quality committee met on November 5 and 19,
2002. The next meeting is scheduled for December 3, 2002. The quality
committee is presently working on documentation to back up the checklist.
Barry Katz is planning to present a status report at the January summit.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE
Lynne Green reported that she is in the process of updating the model
review committee roster with new e-mail addresses. One person has dropped
off the list, and Lynne asked for new participants,
NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES
None.
IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that Lynne Green has located a programmer that
might be willing to volunteer to write a parser for the interconnect
modeling (ICM) specification. It would be an open-source parser that could
be incorporated into other tools without restriction. The IBIS Open Forum
would maintain control of the version posted on the web, and people could
still modify source code (same use model as today). After a short
discussion we decided to pursue this offer. Michael Mirmak pointed out
that the IBIS Open Forum still needs to review the specification and
address the already received comments. Both Stephen and Bob Ross agreed,
noting that we want the specification to dictate the parser details, not the
other way around. Stephen asked Lynne Green to draw up a statement of work
that will formalize the arrangement and send it to the IBIS officers for
review.
BIRD75.7 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support
BIRD77.2 - Differential Subparameter Additions
Bob Ross stated that he, Chris Reid, Arpad Muranyi and Michael Mirmak are
now collaborating on these BIRDs based on some private meeting resolutions
to get agreement. Bob issued a first draft, and Arpad and Michael are now
working on further improvements to the text.
We expect to release the documents next week. Assuming the documents are
issued a vote is scheduled for the next teleconference meeting.
BIRD78 - Comment Line Length Limit
Lynne Green reported that she has drafted an updated version of BIRD78,
but before posting she wanted clarification on the proposed 256 line length
limit. Lynne asked if the limit should apply to all lines or just the
comment
lines. Bob Ross replied that the limit should apply to all lines.
Furthermore, Bob he believes that a 256 line length limit is too long in
that it makes the file unreadable. After additional discussion the consensus
was reached that there was no compelling reason to extend the line length
limit, at least not for the stated reason of accommodating long URLs.
However, Lynne mentioned that extending the line length to 120 would match
the ICM specification. Michael Mirmak then noted a potential problem in IBIS
4.0 with line lengths. If the voltage called out by the new keyword [Ext
Ref] is added to the [Pin Map] keyword columns a line will exceed 80
characters. After further discussion Bob Ross suggested that it would be
appropriate to update BIRD78, only this time proposing a 120 line length
limit. Lynne will update the BIRD and reissue it for discussion at the next
teleconference.
BIRD79 - Non-linear buffer impedance (extension to C_comp)
Arpad Muranyi introduced BIRD79, which was co-authored by Luca Giacotto
of Alstom Transport and Arpad. BIRD79 is the result of work presented
at the last IBIS face to face meeting out output impedance modeling.
In brief, BIRD79 proposes adding an optional keyword [PZ Impedance].
This keyword allows modeling of buffer output impedances using a standard
pole-zero representation, thus greatly supplementing the already existing
C_comp parameter(s). Arpad noted that the BIRD allows four separate
pole-zero tables, one for each of the allowed C_comp parameters in
IBIS 4.0.
Stephen Peters began the discussion by asking if, in light of multi-lingual
modeling, this BIRD is still needed. Arpad pointed out that the information
contained in this BIRD should be documented somewhere in IBIS. Stephen
strongly agrees that we do not want to let Luca's work go undocumented, but
Stephen suggested that it may be best to document this in the form of a
white paper. Arpad remarked that the Data Derivation section may be
appropriate. Bob Ross pointed out that tool makers may not want to implement
the keyword if it can be done using multi-lingual techniques and further
discussion centered on if this BIRD was appropriate for IBIS 4.1 or
should it wait until tool makers have had a chance to the proposed
BIRDs on multi-lingual modeling. No consensus was reached, and further
discussion on this issue was tabled until the next meeting.
BIRD74.2 - EMI Parameters
Guy de Burgh stated that he will further refine the document per some
suggestions by Bob Ross.
Interconnect Modeling (ICM) Specification Comments
Michael Mirmak opened this discussion by noting some limitations the
specification places on the model developer. Currently, the rules for the
[Model_type] keyword prevent a modeler from describing a particular
connector in more than one model format. For example, a connector cannot be
described using both an RLGC matrix and an S-parameter matrix. Bob Ross
pointed
out that the [ICM Model List] keyword can be used to enumerate different
kinds of models for the same physical connector, but Stephen Peters pointed
out
that [ICM Model List] would then need to include a function analogous to
the current IBIS [Model Selector] keyword. After further discussion
Michael agreed to write up some proposed text that will address this issue.
Another concern of Michael's dealt with limitation on the SGR (signal-ground
ratio) subparameter. As currently documented, the numerator of this ratio
is fixed at "1", but that makes it very awkward to document a ratio that
does not reduce to an even fraction (e.g. 7:2, 5:3, etc.). After
discussion it was decided that allowing the SGR subparameter to be a ratio
of any two whole numbers was acceptable. Michael agreed to write up a
proposed change to the draft specification.
Michael touched on two other issues. The specification is not clear on
whether it allows both single ended and "mixed mode" S-parameters, or
single ended only. Lynne noted that Touchstone supports both types and
tools will usually do an automatic conversion. Finally, Michael noted that
the current RLGC matrix format does not indicate at what frequency the data
was taken, and this would be desirable. Stephen remarked that the futures
group did not address the issue of frequency dependent matrices because it
was felt that frequency dependence would be handled by the S-parameters.
More
discussion on this issue is planned.
IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
Stephen Peters reported that we have received the invoice from Atul Agarwal
for the bug fix work performed in 2002. Invoice amount was $1048. Stephen
asked for a motion to approve payment and on a roll call vote the motion
passed unanimously.
- BUG71 - Monotonic Checking for Combined I-V Tables
- BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages
- BUG77 - Test for Series* Models in [Pin] Error
- BUG78 - Clamp Current Double Counting Test
Due to a lack of time discussion on the above bug reports was deferred
to the next meeting.
- BUG76 - External Package Under Win32 Requires Writeable Root
Last meeting Lynne Green asked to discuss this BIRD, but the issue was
resolved before hand so this bug can be removed from the agenda.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, December 13, 2002 from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific time. A vote on BIRD75.7 and BIRD77.2 is
scheduled.
============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF4-215
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 788-4289
lgreen@cadence.com
Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems
20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
guy_deburgh@mentor.com
Senior Manager, Mentor Graphics
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398
roy.leventhal@ieee.org
Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications
1924 North Burke Drive
Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008
John_angulo@mentor.com
Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
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