Todd, Regarding the humor, as I told you in my private mail, you didn't offend me, I just felt more uncomfortable than I would have liked to because of what I wrote in my last posting. That's all, case closed, we are still friends... Regarding the rest of the subject here, I hate to sound like a broken record, but if you agree that "standardizing" the EFGH elements in IBIS may be problematic, what do you think about the idea of implementing them in *-AMS, invoke them with the [External Circuit], and then use [External Circuit] for macromodeling around the IBIS 2.1 base model which may be in another [External Circuit] (this is already posted as part of my presentations on the IBIS website)? The users of these wouldn't have to know what is inside the EFGH *-AMS code, they would only need to invoke them, just like in SPICE. I kind of like this, because it is not interfering with the general direction (if we have any) towards the long term solution of *-AMS, yet allows the same and perhaps even more than what we know of as EFGH elements because we can put any feature into the *-AMS EFGH elements, or we can add features to them as the need comes, since the AMS code is available to anyone at any time. Also, this could be done IMMEDIATELY as far as the IBIS spec is concerned, because we wouldn't have to change anything in it. Arpad ========================================================= -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff (twesterh) Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 7:05 AM To: 'ibis' Subject: RE: [IBIS] AMS tastes great and leaves your teeth shiny white, too! Arpad, 1) Geez, I'm really, really sorry. I completely understand your position and feelings, and you'll never hear me bring up the IBIS prayer again. My first point wasn't meant to be an allusion of any kind. I was pointing out that you've done as much work with AMS for SI as anyone, and if you're convinced it has the capabilities to go forward, I'm inclined to agree. I was simply saying you're in the lead with modeling experience at this point - nothing more. 2/3/4) It's a conundrum, isn't it? We fix the present, we delay the future. We focus on the future, we have trouble getting by in the present. I don't have the answer here; it's a balancing act we have to sound out as we go forward. I was intrigued by last night's discussion of EFGH sources. I agree we can't end up endorsing a specific SPICE version ... so the question is, is there any set of sources we can reliably take as common? Macromodeling could still have value without controlled sources, but I'm inclined to agree that it probably isn't worth the effort without them. I think we need to figure out whether there are a viable set of controlled sources we can rely on or not, and go from there. Going forward, I think we need to continue to look at the "big" picture in modeling - the combination of language, model development tools, documentation and EDA tool support. As you point out, it does us little good to define a standard if EDA vendors do what they want anyway. Similarly, a great language and simulator does us little good if few people can develop models for it. It's taken quite a while to get IBIS in its present state - if we're going to move toward AMS, we will repeatedly have to ask ourselves the question "what does this mean to the average user?" My apologies again for my inappropriate humor. It was never meant to offend - it was only meant to highlight your leadership in a lighthearted way. Your contributions to SI are welcomed and sincerely appreciated, and I was just trying to point that out. Todd. Todd Westerhoff High Speed Design Group Manager Cisco Systems 1414 Massachusetts Ave - Boxboro, MA - 01719 email:twesterh@cisco.com ph: 978-936-2149 ============================================ "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." - Mark Twain ----------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or email a request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993Received on Tue Apr 5 09:05:59 2005
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