[IBIS] Call for contributions for experimental site www.ibis-user.org [Was: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?]

Hi,

As an experiment, I created a forum/wiki to act as an information exchange for IBIS model users, and seeded it with a couple of sample discussions.

http://www.ibis-user.org/

Please read the faq first:

http://www.ibis-user.org/faq

I'll run it for a month or two then circle back here to debate if it's useful to the community or not.

Thanks!

-- Colin Warwick
Signal Integrity Product Marketing Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA
Blog: http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com

-----Original Message-----
From: WARWICK,COLIN (A-Americas,ex1)
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:26 PM
To: 'Howard Johnson'; si-list@freelists.org; 'lgreen22@mindspring.com'; 'bob@teraspeed.com'; 'weirsi@ipblox.com'; 'ibis@eda.org'; 'ibis-users@eda.org'
Subject: Re: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?

Hi,

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and encouragement :-)

There are several options each with pros and cons
* Web page with an appointed honorary librarian
* Wikis e.g. hosted and self-hosted http://www.wikimatrix.org/
* Discussion forums (bulletin boards) e.g. hosted and self-hosted http://www.forummatrix.org/
* Email reflectors like the si-list http://freelists.org
* Shared document/table like a Google Docs spreadsheet. http://docs.google.com/
* Hybrids of the above like Google Wave http://wave.google.com which they say is a "next generation" email/collaboration/documentation tool

Here are some issues with each:
* Ease-of-use versus functionality: email is easy to use, but email reflectors and forums have limited searchablity and it's hard to aggregate threads of (possibility duplicative) conversations.
* WYSIWYG versus markup languages: some wikis and forums require you learn a mark up language.
* "One truth" (conclusion) versus "Let a hundred flowers blossom" (conversation) (yes, I do understand the irony of Mao Zedong's imperative):
   ** Wikis attempt to arrive at some sort of consensus between the editors on the readers' behalf (although there's usually a discussion page for editors behind the "real" page for readers)
whereas
   ** Discussion Forums let everyone voice their own opinion and each reader has to plow through the threads to draw their own conclusion from the (possibly heated) conversation.
* Reputation: How do you hold a contributor accountable for their contribution? How exclude spam in?
* Privacy: How much info to do I have to submit to sign up? As a reader? As a writer? How to prevent harvesting of personal info by nefarious agents?
* History/reversion: How do we track and undo "bad" edits? How to delete "bad" postings?
* Who pays? There are plenty of "free" hosting sites, usually ad-funded. Do we want an ad free site by paying to self-hosting fee? If so, how do we split the check?
* Structured versus unstructured: Do you want a rigorous database schema (specific column headings/fields for each row/record in (possibly interlinked) tables)? Or more free form? If structured, how to come to a consensus schema?
* Who runs the thing? What are the costs and benefits for the admin?

I added a second straw poll to the bottom of:

http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com/2010/crowdsource-ibis-models-directory/

...so you can vote for your favorite...

Best regards,

-- Colin Warwick
Signal Integrity Product Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:si-list-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Howard Johnson
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 1:00 AM
To: si-list@freelists.org
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?

Hey Colin,

I think you are on to a good idea. Individual users spend way too much time
farting around trying to put together good IBIS models. Much of that effort
seems wasted.

I'd like to see the list include some sort of "user voting" feature so the
readers of the list could see if other people found the model "useful".
Some "wiki" type tools allow that kind of feedback and I believe it would be
crucial, because I believe you will never get an official committee to vet
the models -- it has to be done through independent user evaluations.

Good luck, and keep plugging on this idea, it's a good one.

Yes, I went to your link and voted.

Best regards,
Dr. Howard Johnson, Signal Consulting Inc.,
tel +1 509-997-0505, howie03@sigcon.com
www.sigcon.com -- High-Speed Digital Design seminars, publications and films
 

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:si-list-bounce@freelists.org] On
Behalf Of steve weir
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:09 PM
To: colin_warwick@agilent.com
Cc: si-list@freelists.org
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS
model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?

My view on the usefulness of such a directory all depends on how well the
directory would be maintained / policed and whether the directory would
include information that would indicate the model's likely usefulness.
There are a lot of IBIS ( HSPICE models as well for that matter ), that
aren't particularly useful. Many have not been verified in any way. Some
of them do not even parse.

Anyway, if this is going to be undertaken, I would really like to see
something similar to the way that the FPGA vendors list IP cores.

Target Model Manufacturer
Target Model Part Number
Free or pay model
Model basis: Raw original model, SPICE derived model, Measurement based
model IBIS version Passed parser or not w/ parser version Model verified or
not Link to model, or model supplier

Steve

colin_warwick@agilent.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Bottom line on top: Any interest in using and/or contributing to an IBIS
model directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia? Please vote in this
informal straw poll:
>
>
http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com/2010/crowdsource-ibis-models-director
y/
>
> ...and/or leave a comment there, and/or comment to this thread.
>
> Backstory: I posted the message below to the IBIS lists, but was
> disappointed that the response was fairly mute. So, I'm posting it
> here in the hope it will resonate with si-listers. (If you are also on
> the IBIS lists, this is a duplicate. Sorry!)
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> -- Colin Warwick
> Signal Integrity Product Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WARWICK,COLIN
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:59 AM
> To: IBIS-Interconnect; 'ibis-macro@freelists.org'
> Subject: Straw poll and call for comments: Crowdsource IBIS model
directory by use of a wiki such as wikipedia?
>
> Hi,
>
> I get several emails a month from customers asking "Is there an IBIS model
for XYZ part from ABC IC vendor". I usually point them at:
> http://www.teraspeed.com/ibis_resources.html
> http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis%20table/models.htm
>
> If the info is out-of-date (as is often the case), I ask them to do an
> advanced Google search like:
> http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=IBIS+site:someicvendordomain.c
> om
>
> (replace someicvendordomain.com with the IC vendor's domain,
> obviously)
>
> But I'm wondering if there's a better way than "spray and pray" Googling
or burdening a single librarian with hundreds of update requests.
>
> Sooo...How about crowdsourcing?
>
> "Crowd-what-ing," you say? Here's a definition from wikipedia:
>
> 'Crowdsourcing is a neologistic compound of Crowd and Outsourcing for the
act of taking tasks traditionally performed by an employee or contractor,
and outsourcing them to a group of people or community, through an "open
call" to a large group of people (a crowd) asking for contributions.'
> (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing )
>
> Specifically, I'm wondering if we should create a table off of the main
IBIS page on wikipedia:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_Output_Buffer_Information_Specifica
> tion
>
> ...(or some other wiki) for IC vendors to update their info themselves. It
would look something like this prototype I cobbled together:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Woz2/Input_Output_Buffer_Information
> _Specification/Table_of_IBIS_models
>
> Thoughts? Please vote in this informal straw poll:
>
> http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com/2010/crowdsource-ibis-models-di
> rectory/
>
> and/or leave a comment there, and/or comment to this thread.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -- Colin Warwick
> Signal Integrity Product Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA

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