Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl
From: Angulo, John (john_angulo@mentorg.com)
Date: Thu May 15 2003 - 12:08:08 PDT
The following is posted on behalf of Alex Hilbers at ASML. Please send any private replies to alex.hilbers@asml.com only.
-----Original Message-----
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 10:37:22 +0200 (MEST)
From: Alex Hilbers <alex.hilbers@asml.com>
Reply-To: Alex Hilbers <alex.hilbers@asml.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org, erik.van.der.ven@philips.com
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Erik,
I donot know which type of Spice simulator you use, but within PStar you should
be able to find Most Model 9. When characterisation has been done correctly,
this model includes non-ideal clamp diodes.
If you are using HSpice: Philips Most Model 9 is found in HSpice as level 50, if
memory serves me well.
Regards,
Alex
> From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com
> To: ibis-users@eda.org
> Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:49:50 +0200
> X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ehv001soh/H/SERVER/PHILIPS(Release 5.0.9a
|January 7, 2002) at 13/05/2003 10:50:12, Serialize complete at 13/05/2003
10:50:12
>
> As Tom and Fred suggest I have to add "some" resistance to the clamp
> diodes to prevent high currents. Must these device models be characterised
> or should I just add an arbitrary value. If so what will be the value of
> this information. I still don't have the insight what an IBIS simulator
> does do with the clamping info?
>
> With kind regards,
>
>
> Ir. Erik van der Ven
> Room DB1032
> Business Line Networking Infrastructure
> Philips Semiconductors BV
> Gerstweg 2
> 6534 AE Nijmegen
> The Netherlands
> Phone: +31-24-3534334
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Tom Dagostino" <tom@teraspeed.com>
> 05/12/03 06:41 PM
> Please respond to tom
>
>
> To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
> <ibis-users@server.eda.org>
> cc:
> Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl
> Classification:
>
>
>
> Erik
>
> Fred is right that for an ECL model that the voltage range that has to be
> characterized is over the 0 to Vcc - 2V range in the table. I like to see
> at least the active region between 0 and Vcc modeled. There are some ECL
> parts that will not be adequately characterized by only going from 0 to
> Vcc - 2V. If I remember correctly ON Semi makes some ECL line drivers
> that have about twice the swing of normal ECL.
>
> Fred, the garbage Erik referred to was multiple lines in the tables that
> have the same voltage values and zero current. I've seen models with
> this before but I don't remember the cause of it.
>
> Yes, IBIS likely goes too far into the clamp regions for characterization.
> If your clamp currents are extreme it is likely that the clamp diodes
> have not been properly characterized in their SPICE models. If you are
> seeing more than a few amperes in the clamps you can assume the intrinsic
> resistance of the diodes, the metal, etc. have not been fully
> characterized. To eliminate this try adding a few hundred milli Ohms in
> series with the clamps to bring the currents down to a more realistic
> level.
>
> Tom Dagostino
> Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
> 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division
> Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane
> Beaverton, OR 97008
> http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065
> tom@teraspeed.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of
erik.van.der.ven@philips.com
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 1:44 AM
> To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
> Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl
>
>
> Dear Fred,
>
> Thank you for your reply. About the garbage; I explained it in an email I
> just sent (directed to Tom).
>
> The s2ibis program does not generate IV- tables from 0-2.2V, but the
> program that has been modified by my collegue does do this (apart from the
> "garbage" that both programs produce).
> Is this range enough? According to Tom it should be -3.3-6.6V. Where is
> this range for ECL/PECL defined? I cannot find it in the specification.
>
> When the voltage is out of the normal operating range the currents can be
> very high, even so high that the transistor models are not valid anymore.
> What is the use of specifying these currents? Can they be left out? If
> not, what is done with this information.
> I have the same question for the clamp currents. The output can be
> disabled, so this is a kind of tri-state (not really high impedant). Also
> here the currents are unrealistically high. What is done with this
> information? Why must it be specified? The PECL voltage swing is such that
> even a fully reflected signal will not cause the output to be outside the
> supply range.
>
> With kind regards,
>
>
>
> Ir. Erik van der Ven
> Room DB1032
> Business Line Networking Infrastructure
> Philips Semiconductors BV
> Gerstweg 2
> 6534 AE Nijmegen
> The Netherlands
> Phone: +31-24-3534334
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fred Balistreri <fred@apsimtech.com>
> Sent by:
> fred@interjet.apsimtech.com
> 05/09/03 07:10 PM
>
> To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
> cc:
> Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl
> Classification:
>
>
>
> Erik, you need to define what convention you are
> using when you say voltage range. Remember that
> for ECL and PECL both the pullup and pulldown
> reference is the same. If the voltage range
> you refer to is the IBIS Vtable then your
> range is not correct. Under the IBIS conventions
> for ECL or PECL type Vtable= Vcc - Vout.
> This is true for both pullup/pulldown for PECL/ECL.
> IBIS further explains that for ECL, PECL the
> range should be VCC - 2.2 volts. Under the
> IBIS rules then the range should always be
> 0 - 2.2 volts for both pullup and pulldown.
> Note that 0 really means 3.3 at the output
> for your case and 2.2 really means 1.1 at the
> output.
>
> I don't quite understand your problem. You state
> garbage. It's probably not quite descriptive
> enough to understand your issue. Although the
> meaning is clear.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> erik.van.der.ven@philips.com wrote:
> >
> > Part 1.1Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
>
> --
> Fred Balistreri
> fred@apsimtech.com
>
> http://www.apsimtech.com
>
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alex Hilbers Email: alex.hilbers@asml.com
ASML Tel: +31(0)402685587
P.O. Box 324 Fax: +31(0)402685530
5500 AH Veldhoven Building 7K-0002
The Netherlands Department: EDEV
Signal Integrity and Thermal Analysis
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