[IBIS-Users] RE: BIRD95: Power Integrity Analysis Using IBIS

Mike (and Syed),

Nice comments! Your main concern raises a question in my mind
regarding on-die power delivery (passive) networks. This subject
has popped up here and there in discussions, but so far no one
has raised it as an issue so clearly and as importantly as you
and Norio Matsui.

Up until now we have considered a buffer having a single point
Power and GND connection (unless it was using different supply
voltages for clamps). Except for some groupings done by the good
old [Pin Mapping] keyword, these supplies were all shorted together
with all power and GND pads.

It seems that if these concerns you and Norio are raising are
driven by a common need, we would also need to consider how
power is distributed between the buffers and their sub-blocks.

However, if one of the primary purpose of doing BIRD95 is
to make better SSN simulations possible (including the power
delivery networks), we would also need to consider the
so-called "gate modulation effect" for which I have heard
a lot a IBIS criticism since the mid 90's. (This effect
is the one that reduces the drive strength of the output
stage due to the supply voltage reduction which arises with
power delivery noise). If we don't account for that, no
matter how well we know how the currents are distributed
between power GND and the output, they are still going to
be wrong...

Now, adding more than 4 supply nodes to a buffer is not possible
with [Model] or [External Model], only with [External Circuit].
This implies that describing predriver currents independently
could only be done with models using the new language extensions.
To me it seems that Syed's proposal is an attempt to provide an
interim solution using the legacy buffer modeling techniques.
The level of detail you and Norio brought up could only be
addressed by the new generation of models which will be written
with those languages. I hope that by then we will also figure
out how to use ICM with IBIS to describe the on-die passive
interconnects to make it all work together.

However, the gate modulation effect could still be described
relatively well within the legacy IBIS framework with a few simple
parameters. For an example we could look at how HSPICE's B-element
does it with the "spu_scal" and "spd_scal" parameters. These were
implemented on our request to do just that, but there are no IBIS
keywords or subparameters to transfer these coefficients in an
IBIS file. I wonder whether we should include these features
in BIRD95?

Regarding #4, current should be positive into the power node,
into the I/O node, but OUT OF the GND node.

Regarding #6, very good point, but it all depends on whether the
diff pair is just two independent single ended buffers driven in the
opposite directions, or a true (current source + current steering
transistors) construction. Legacy IBIS can't do the second one,
period. So how would someone translate a measurement done on a
true diff buffer to a model that can only do two single ended
buffers driven in opposite directions? I am not saying that this
is impossible, but I don't see an immediate solution, and I didn't
spend time on thinking about it yet.

There is another issue that I ran into recently in connection with
differential buffers when they are designed with bipolar transistors.
It is a pain taking IV curves of these, because due to the nature of
the bipolar output transistors the two outputs are much less
independent as in the case with MOSFET outputs. (The nature of
bipolar transistors is such that the output voltage will have
a great effect of the bias levels of the predrivers, and thereby
other half of the output). I don't know what we can or should do
with these animals in an IBIS I-V curve sense. This is not
necessarily a BIRD95 problem, but since you brought up your
question, I had to mention it.

Regarding #7, I feel these tables should be under subparameters
inside the [xxx Waveform] keywords. That way there would be
no confusions. (I hope).

Arpad
==================================================================

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Mike LaBonte
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:34 AM
To: ibis@eda.org; 'ibis-users'
Subject: RE: [IBIS] Re: [IBIS-Users] BIRD95: Power Integrity Analysis Using IBIS

BIRD95 reminds us of the difficulties associated with the current profile
issue, but hopefully this time we can work it through to a conclusion. My
comments:

1) Norio Matsui may have raised the most important issue, the fact that
there may not be exactly one bypass capacitor and one pre-driver section
associated with one buffer, all sharing current from one supply. In fact
this case seems quite unlikely. Scaling the total bypass capacitance,
pre-driver current and output current for an arbitrary slice of a component
down to one of it's buffers should a model that is likely not very accurate
for any single buffer, or for any collection of buffers unless the
collection happens to be equal to those in the slice. And a single current
profile still doesn't solve the correct apportionment of current to paths
from distinct power supply voltages.

2) Accepting for the moment that we are attempting to represent multiple
current paths with a single table here, why not specify ground current
instead of power current? Isn't it more likely that all of these currents
flow through a single ground plane than through a single power plane?

3) Although the IBIS specification limits itself with regard to explaining
how a simulator might use the data, I feel that some effort might be
warranted here to advance the cause of consistency among simulators. For
starters, should we have some words of wisdom explaining that the current
out of the pad can be determined, and represents the difference between the
current into the power supply (if there is only one) and out through ground
(if there is only one). Digging deeper, how will the simulator decide how
much of the current passing through ground is "crowbarred" through the
pullup and pulldown, versus passing through the other current path formed by
the bypass capacitors and pre-drivers? This has a bearing on the turn-on/off
rates chosen for the pullup/pulldown. Mainly I would like to see some
discussion of this from simulator people, to validate that the simulation
outcome is deterministic. Even if there has been discussion already within
the IBIS committee, it would be good to make a record in the IBIS
specification for future implementers.

4) I think the text should clarify that positive values represent current
flowing into the buffer.

5) Although it may seem obvious, maybe the specification should clarify that
in the case of open_XXX models, where current is supplied by the test
fixture, that current is not to be accounted for in the [Series Composite
Current].

6) What would the [Series Composite Current] profile look like for a
differential output buffer? Presumably these must be taken as a pair, and
the total current for the pair ideally remains nearly static. Should we
require the measurements to be taken this way, or should we allow model
makers to provide separate P and N models with different current profiles?

7) The proposed [Series Composite Current] keyword associates itself with a
preceding [XXX Waveform] keyword, and is thus position dependent. Some
existing IBIS keywords are position dependent. For example, [Ramp] is part
of a second level of hierarchy under [Model]. But I think [Series Composite
Current] would be a third level of hierarchy, being under [XXX Waveform],
which is under [Model]. Is this OK, or would it be better to simply add 3
more columns to the [XXX Waveform] tables?

8) Can the [Series Composite Current] keyword follow only some [XXX
Waveform] tables and not others?

9) The text describes [Series Composite Current] as current flowing through
R_VDD, but the circuit diagram calls it R_VDDQ.

10) More nit picking: I had to modify the ASCII circuit diagram to make it
line up right.

It's great to be discussing this important issue again. Overall I am left
wondering if the various current paths can reasonably be merged into a
single table.

Mike LaBonte

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Received on Tue Jan 4 14:04:46 2005