Hello Arpad, Thank You for additional clarification. But I would argue that there is one more case, chip-level RLC values. The max values should go into the "min" column, right? Best regards, Lars Muranyi, Arpad wrote: > The IBIS specification does not associate the numbers with > any meaning, i.e. a small number doesn't necessarily mean > slow/fast or best/worst. > > This is because from a signal integrity or timing point if > view you can some times argue it both ways. For example, > a small C_comp could result in a faster edge rate, but at > the same time it can also cause more overshoot and ringing. > If the timing is such that the ringing has to settle before > you have a valid signal, you got worse timing from a smaller > C_comp. So in this case, is the smaller C_comp a best case > or a worst case scenario? > > For this reason, the IBIS specification says that you put the > small numbers in the min place, and the big numbers in the > max case. There is only one exception, as Radovan mentioned > it, which is the temperature. Depending on whether you have > a bi-polar or CMOS device, you will either put the high temperature > (the weak condition) in the max or min place, respectively. > This was done so that a tool can apply different algorithms > to the model if they so desire, knowing what type the device > is. > > Arpad > ============================================================= > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org > [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Vuletic Radovan > (QAG PX D PDE) > Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:15 AM > To: Lars Snith; ibis-users@server.eda.org > Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Correct use of [Temperature Range] > > Hi Lars, > > usually in IBIS modeling I refer to the typ, min and max PVT cases as to > the nominal, slow and fast PVT cases. > > In max (fast) PVT cases usually one should have the best transistor > device parameters ("fastest" transistors), highest voltage and - now > comes the trick (if there is one at all) - lowest temperature for CMOS > circuits (since CMOS transistors usually have negative temperature > coefficient - meaning lower temperature yields in higher current --> > faster switching) or highest temperature for bipolar transistors > (devices) since usually they have positive temperature coefficient and > therefore at higher temperatures they deliver higher current (in some > cases some smoke as well :-)) > > Similar (but opposite) in slow PVT case: put there slowest device > models, lowest voltage and highest temperature for CMOS or lowest > temperature for bipolar devices. > > Of course, I can imagine that in some very special cases some > deviations from above rules could happened. > > So, if you are having IBIS models of some vendor that uses both CMOS and > bipolar technologies having different temperatures for the same PVT case > I would say that it makes sense - if that is not the case, I would than > directly clarify with the model provider if there is a bug in the model > or not. > > I hope this helps. > > > Best regards / Mit freundlichen Gru?en / S postovanjem > Radovan Vuletic > Staff Engineer Product Development > > Qimonda AG > QAG PX D PDE > MUC/10.2.236 AP 3 > Am Campeon 1-12 > D-85579 Neuebiberg > Germany > > Phone: +49 (0)89 60088 1233 > Fax (PC): +49 (0)89 60088 45 5305 > Mobile: +49 (0)160 7476262 > > E-mail: radovan.vuletic@qimonda.com > Web: http://www.qimonda.com/ > > > ======================================================================== > ====== > Qimonda AG > Chairman of the Supervisory Board/ Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Peter J. > Fischl > Management Board/ Vorstand: Kin Wah Loh (Chairman/ Vorsitzender), Thomas > J. Seifert > Register Court/ Registergericht: Munchen HRB 152545, Seat/ Sitz: Munchen > ======================================================================== > ====== > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org > [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Lars Snith > Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 1:27 PM > To: ibis-users@server.eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] Correct use of [Temperature Range] > > Hello Friends, > > Let me once and for all try to nail down an issue that seem to be a > constant source of confusion. > > The IBIS model syntax defines the triplet order [typ] [min] [max]. > But this relates to the overall case, not the individual parameter, > right? So to make things match the real operational case the [min] of > [Temperature Range] would really need to be the maximum temperature, > right? > > Looking at what others do is not much help here, I see examples of both > variants, frequently from the same vendor(!). So an authorative answer > would be appreciated. -- Those who can, Do Those who can't, Simulate -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993Received on Mon Mar 23 08:06:48 2009
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