Subject: [IBIS] Aug 9, 2002 IBIS Minutes
From: Guy deBurgh (gdeburgh@innoveda.com)
Date: Mon Aug 12 2002 - 13:33:24 PDT
DATE: 08/12/02
SUBJECT: August 9, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer Kim Helliwell
Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui
Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Abdulrahmun Rafiq, Zhiping Yang
Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat)
Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong)
IBM Greg Edlund, Pravin Patel
Innoveda (Merged with Mentor John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh*, Steve Gascoigne
Graphics)
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs,
Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis,
Michael Mirmak
LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik
Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd*, Mike Donnelly,
Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, Tom Dagostino,
Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet
Micron Technology Randy Wolff
Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella
Motorola Rick Kingen
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz
NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya)
North East Systems Associates (Edward Sayre)
Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions)
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Eckhard Lenski
Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz*, Walter Katz, Robert Moles,
Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher, Steve Coe,
Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock,
Sigrity Raj Raghuram, Bob Haller*
SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin
Teraspeed (Scott McMorrow)
Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre, Ralf Bruening
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002:
3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn
Actel Prabhu Mohan
Agilent Herbert Lage
Airbus Claude Huet
Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto
Apt Software Atul Agarwal
Astrium Olivier Prieur
Bee Technologies Corporation Tsuyoshi Horigome
Brocade Communications Robert Badal
Compaq Shafier-ur-Rahman
EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin
EFM Ekkehard Miersch
EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham*
EMC Corporation (Brian Arsenault)
Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone
Force Computers Roger Sukiennik
Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler
Systems
Japan Electronics and Kiyomi Daishido
Information Technology
Industries Association
(JEITA)
Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal*
Communication
National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola), Etienne
Sicard,
Science (INSA) Stephane Baffreau
Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer
Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines
Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. [Tsuyoshi Horigome]
Sintecs Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres
Synopsys (Avanti) (Hailong Wang)
TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro
Thales Saverio Lerose
Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick)
UTMC Greg Haynes
Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long
Independent Larry Barnes
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences
are as follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
August 30, 2002 1-888-316-5901 N/A 5136500
(International Dial-In: 1-617-801-9781)
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Stephen Peters was on vacation. Bob Ross conducted the meeting on Lynne
Green's request due to a sore throat. Bob noted that we had a quorum
based on five participants.
(Bob Haller called in for the first time from Signal Integrity Software -
SiSoft.)
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Lynne Green reported that we are steady at 31 paid members. Several
memberships or reconciliations of paid memberships are still pending with
EIA records.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The minutes of the July 19, 2002 meeting were approved without change.
The ARs were discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Per EIA legal guidelines Bob Ross made a call for any companies to disclose
any patents or pending patents that may bear upon the IBIS version 4.0
standard. This is to avoid future (legal) issues concerning patented
features within a standard. Chris Denham commented that the patent must be
declared and made publicly available before the standard is issued. Bob
commented that we had received such notification once before in the past.
This call for patent disclosure will become a standard part of every
meeting.
No companies declared a patent.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq updated the Specs and Roster pages. He also
updated the Support link and replaced the Version 4.0 WIP front page link
with the Quality Checklist WIP link. As Roy Leventhal noted, we need to
clean up the Roster. Syed will issue a message for updates to the
reflector.
Non-member participants who do not respond may have their listing removed.
Some listings have already been updated or removed.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Roy Leventhal reported no changes or updates.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Lynne Green noted that the IBIS futures and connector working group report
will be discussed during the technical portion of the meeting. (This was
left off the Agenda by mistake.)
(Also, during the administrative portion of the meeting, Bob Ross discussed
early planning for the next IBIS Summit Meeting on October 17, 2002.)
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
(formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters needs
to review the some comments on the Cookbook and Report document.
IBIS VERSION 4.0 ACTIVITIES
Lynne Green reported that she is working on the Request for Quote for the
IBIS Version 4.0 parser. Any commercial entity can provide a bid. Bids
will be evaluated on price, delivery, company performance, and other
relevant criteria.
As Bob Ross previously reported, Version 4.0 documents have been uploaded,
but the 00readme.txt still needs to describe the changes.
IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE
Barry Katz reported that the IBIS Quality committee met on July 30, 2002.
A list of keywords and a definition of "Level 0" quality has been developed.
Level 0 contains things that can be checked by a parser, and checks for
compliance with the IBIS standard but not correctness of the data. The goal
is to present this at the PCB East IBIS Summit meeting. The next meeting is
scheduled August 13, and every two weeks thereafter.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Bob Ross reported that he has distributed a model from Texas Instruments to
the IBIS Review Committee. Lynne Green will take over the pre-screening
and distribution of models.
NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES
John Angulo reported normal Majordomo activity.
PCB CONFERENCE EAST IBIS SUMMIT MEETING (New agenda item)
Bob Ross reported that Stephen Peters, Lynne Green and he need to do some
preliminary planning for the PCB East IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled on
Thursday, October 17, 2002, hosted by North East Systems Associates (NESA).
The date may need to be shifted since the PCB East Conference has shifted
the exhibit dates to Wednesday and Thursday.
AR: Lynne, Bob and Stephen contact the PCB East Committee concerning trade
show dates to set the IBIS Summit Meeting date and issue an announcement.
BIRD74.1 - EMI Parameters
Guy de Burgh reported no update. Bob Ross indicated that he and Guy may
work on BIRD74.1 next week in preparation for the next meeting.
BIRD75.2 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support
BIRD77.1 - Differential Subparameter Additions
Bob Ross reported that BIRD77.1 was issued with some improvements suggested
at the July 19, 2002 meeting for a diagram and examples. Bob also commented
that he has become aware of several private comments. Arpad just completed
a thorough review and provided a nineteen point list for Bob's preview.
Most
of the remaining discussion here addressed these comments with the idea to
clarify (and possibly resolve some) before issuing them to the IBIS
reflector. As as result of the technical nature of the comments, Bob and
others expected the vote to be deferred.
In one comment, Arpad questioned if the .LIB statement was supported. Ian
Dodd thought it did not exist in Berkeley 3F4 SPICE. The .INCLUDE statement
is the normal way to add process variations in models. Bob state that
the Corner mechanism would be suitable for the .INCLUDE method. Some
commercial SPICE versions have .LIB, so the issue is still open on this
concern.
Arpad suggested [External Model] be moved up to the same level as [Model].
Bob stated that this make sense on one hand, but might be hard to document
within the IBIS document since [Model] for backwards compatibility and
that it might require repeating some common writeups. Roy Leventhal asked
about using HTML and hot links for common writeups. Ian Dodd and others
noted that it makes the document hard to read off line. Roy will ask EIA
whether hot links are used and are acceptable.
Bob commented that Lynne Green had asked at the previous meeting whether
more corners than Typ, Min, Max could be supported. Bob's response at that
time was to build extra models to fill in different Min and Max conditions.
Lynne gave a further example - minimum strength PMOS for pullup, maximum
strength NMOS for pulldown. Arpad also added that different voltage and
temperature effects could be modeled. An N-sigma set of models could be
issued.
Arpad suggested scaling parameters as a possible solution. Arpad also asked
about passing in parameters to the model - such as temperature. Lynne added
that support for arbitrary parameters would be useful. After some
discussion, Roy noted that no one model can do everything. Bob suggested
that he assumed parameter passing would be handled within the constraints
of the external language. Parameter passing rules may differ between
languages (AMS versus some SPICE), making a common rule hard to specify.
Bob cautioned that the issue of parameter passing might be bigger than can
be addressed in BIRD75.2. This may be solved within each EDA tool.
Arpad questioned in his e-mail whether C_comp was still required. He noted
some extended cases where [External Model] may model more advanced C_comp
behavioral extensions or differential C_comp. Bob stated that the existing
IBIS rules would require C_comp for consistency and simplicity, even if it
is overridden. C_comp could be just set to 0.
In another comment Arpad stated that a strong note is needed to caution
against using SPICE .GLOBAL variables needs to be documented because of
unintended interactions with other SPICE models.
Bob noted that Al Davis asked for an example we discussed providing an AMS
example of an adaptive terminator. Bob wondered if a set of examples was
really what was intended. A pseudo-example is used within the BIRD to
show some calling syntax.
Arpad encouraged everyone to actively participate to provide more input
and viewpoints for an active review.
AR: Roy Leventhal to contact Chris Denham to see if there is an EIA policy
on hot links within a specification document. Bob noted that it might be
necessary to have some way to do an "in-line" print.
Links to SPICE 3F5 documentation:
http://www.eece.ksu.edu/~khc/spice/spice3.html
http://bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/Classes/IcBook/SPICE/
http://newton.ex.ac.uk/teaching/CDHW/Electronics2/userguide
AR: Bob Ross to make an AMS example available.
Arpad will issue the list to the IBIS reflector for further review and
discussion. The discussion will continue at the next meeting on
BIRD75.2 and BIRD77.1, and a vote will be scheduled.
IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT
Lynne Green reported that the IBIS futures and connector working group meet
on August 1, 2002 for further refinement. The next meeting needs to be
scheduled when people are again available.
IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
Bob Ross reported that several draft BUG reports have come in for an
initial review.
Bob Haller stated that he is planning to issue a BUG report concerning
non-monotonic Warning messages. He discussed briefly the need to do
non-monotonic checking based on the sum of the tables, not just individual
tables. He mentioned that about three other pending BUG reports have
been divided among Quality Committee members.
Lynne Green stated that she also has a pending draft BUG report. Arpad
Muranyi added that he also has a test case that may be related to the
closed BUG57 causing a false waveform mismatch error. The data conditions
are extreme, and Bob Ross is still considering whether this re-opens
BUG57 or should be documented as a new BUG. So a total of up to six BUG
reports are pending.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on August 30, 2002 from 8:00 AM
to 10:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time. Votes on updates to BIRD75.2 and
BIRD77.1 are scheduled.
============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF4-215
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871
lgreen@cadence.com
Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems
20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
gdeburgh@innoveda.com
Senior Manager, Mentor Graphics
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398
roy.leventhal@ieee.org
Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications
1924 North Burke Drive
Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008
jangulo@innoveda.com
Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and
EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
majordomo@eda.org
In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector:
subscribe ibis <your e-mail address>
In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector:
subscribe ibis-users <your e-mail address>
Help and other commands:
help
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported
bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
============================================================================
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org
|with the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
| help
| subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different>
| subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a request to ibis-request@eda.org.
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b28 : Wed Aug 14 2002 - 14:53:55 PDT