Subject: [IBIS] Open forum minutes (04/18/03)
From: rrwolff (rrwolff@micron.com)
Date: Mon Apr 21 2003 - 08:09:04 PDT
DATE: 04/21/03
SUBJECT: April 18, 2003 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2003 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer Kim Helliwell
Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri
Cadence Design Lynne Green*
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Val Mandruson, Hung Pham
Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat)
Fairchild Semiconductor (Graham Connolly)
Hitachi ULSI Systems Kazuyoshi Shoji
Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong)
IBM (Pravin Patel)
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Michael Mirmak*,
Arpad Muranyi*
LSI Logic Frank Gasparik
Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito
Mentor Graphics [Bob Ross], Ian Dodd, Guy de Burgh*,
John Angulo*, Mike Donnelly, Weston Beal
Micron Technology Randy Wolff*
Mitsubishi (Pat Hefferan)
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella
Motorola (Rick Kingen)
National Semiconductor [Milt Schwartz], Tim Coyle
NEC Electric Corporation (Itsuki Yamada)
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions), Stephanie Goedecke
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Eckhard Lenski, Michael Kindij,
Burkhard Muller, Katja Koller,
Andre Goerisch, Manfred Maurer,
Bernard Unger, Amir Motamedi,
Hartmut Ibowski, Gerald Bannert
Signal Integrity Software Bob Haller*, Barry Katz, Doug Burns
Sigrity Raj Raghuram
SiQual (Rob Hinz)
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher
Teraspeed Scott McMorrow, Tom Dagostino,
Kevin Simpson, Bob Ross*
Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) Michael Schaeder, Ralf Bruning,
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2003:
Agilent Technologies Herbert Lage
Brocade Frank Yuan, Yongrue Yu
Conexant Gary Felker
EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin
EFM Ekkehard Miersch
EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault
Fraunhofer IZM Ege Engin
Fujitsu Tadashi Arai
GEIA (Chris Denham)
Independent Kelly Green, Luca Giacotto
Infineon Tech AG Christian Sporrer
Marvell Semiconductor Itzik Peleg
NetLogic Microsystems Eric Hsu
Plexus Joseph Socha
Politechnico de Torino Igor Stievano
Sintecs BV Hans Klos, Bob te Nijenhuis
Xilinx Susan Wu
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are
as follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
May 9, 2003 (916) 356-2663 1 8390090
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new members
CALL FOR PATENTS
Stephen Peters called for any patents or pending patents related to the
IBIS Version 4.0 Standard. No companies declared a patent.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that he has received a financial and ledger
statement for February 2003, but nothing more current. So far as Stephen is
aware, the total paid membership remains at 16 members. Stephen continues to
work with GEIA to obtain a current financial and dues payment report.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
Stephen Peters noted two minor corrections to the March 28, 2003 minutes.
The JEDEX class taught by Lynne Green was held in San Jose, not San Diego.
Also, under the discussion of BUG73 (IBISCHK3 status agenda item) John
Angulo requested that the following sentence be revised from:
"In brief, non-monotonic points in the clamp table cause the parser to
extrapolate the table endpoints incorrectly, thus the end point test fails."
to:
"In brief, the parser extrapolates non-monotonic end-points in the clamp
table correctly, but the V-T end point test fails because of the
non-monotonicity."
The March 28, 2003 minutes were approved with the above changes and Michael
Mirmack will upload the corrected minutes.
ARs will be discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross indicated that he will attend the Signal Propagation on
Interconnects (SPI2003) workshop as a keynote speaker on "IBIS Present
and Future" on Wednesday, May 14, 2003.
Stephen Peters reported that Syed Huq is making ongoing updates to the IBIS
roster and upcoming events link.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
None.
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None.
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
(formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - No report.
- JEDEC Activity Report. Nothing to report.
DAC2003 MEETING PLANNING
Stephen Peters reported that planning continues for the June 5, 2003 IBIS
summit meeting, which will be held in conjunction with DAC2003 in Anaheim,
California at the Anaheim Marriot hotel. Lynne Green has posted the first
announcement to the reflector. Stephen also noted that attendees should
sign up with Guy de Burgh and start making their travel arrangements.
Cost for the meeting is estimated to be between $2,300 and $2,500 depending
on the number of attendees and the lunch selected. A vegetarian option would
be about $30 a plate, a meat entree would be about $35 a plate. To reduce
cost Stephen suggested eliminating the afternoon refreshments, which will
save approximately $15 a person. After discussion the group agreed to forgo
the afternoon refreshments and go with the vegetarian option for lunch.
John Angulo will follow up with the hotel. Stephen again mentioned that we
are looking for co-sponsors to fund part of or all of the lunch.
Guy de Burgh indicated that he will supply an LCD projector. In response to
a question from John Angulo, we agreed to drop the overhead projector and
go with a flip chart package instead. Stephen asked Arpad Muranyi to inquire
if a local Intel office can be used as the dial-in point for a
teleconference bridge.
Stephen noted that the following presentations are planned (titles are
tentative).
IBIS Status Update, Stephen Peters (Intel Corp)
VHDL AMS Modeling, Arpad Muranyi (Intel Corp)
Quality Committee Update, Barry Katz (SiSoft)
Lynne Green indicated that either herself or Michael Mirmak will be
presenting an ICM specification update.
In addition to presentations and discussion we will also be conducting
the annual election of officers. The current slate of nominees and their
positions are:
Chair Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp.
Vice-Chair Lynne Green, Cadence
Secretary Randy Wolff, Micron
Librarian Roy Leventhal, Leventhal Design and Communications
Webmaster Syed Huq, Cisco
Postmaster John Angulo, Mentor
Additional nominations are being accepted for all positions. E-mail nominee
names to Stephen Peters. Nominations will also be accepted at the summit
meeting.
DESIGNCON2003 EAST MEETING PLANNING
Stephen Peters reported that planning for an IBIS summit meeting at
Designcon2003 East in continues. The summit is scheduled for June 23, 2003
in the Royal Plaza Hotel in Marlborough, Massachusetts. The meeting room
has yet to be determined. Stephen noted that we are also a co-sponsor of
DesignCon2003 East. Barry Katz from SiSoft is serving as the contact for
registration and sign-up, so if you are planning on attending please let
Barry know. Stephen mentioned that we have traded refreshments for a
telephone line so that the meeting can be web telecast.
It was noted that we will need to obtain an LCD projector for the room at
DAC. Stephen will inquire with potential attendees. Finally, Stephen noted
that the first meeting announcement has been posted to the reflector, and
that a second announcement should follow in the coming week.
IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING AND STATUS
Stephen Peters reported that he received an e-mail from Huawei confirming
that they have sent in payment for the parser. Stephen is still awaiting
confirmation from GEIA that they have received the payment. This brings
the total companies that have paid to six, with three more pending.
Stephen has not heard back from Atul Agarwal on parser progress. It was
noted that when we do receive the prototype code John Angulo and Matthew
Flora will be in charge of testing.
IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE
Bob Haller reported on the IBIS Quality Committee meeting held on April 8,
2003. The quality committee is about half way through its document review
and is currently working on the model section. The next meeting is
scheduled for April 22, 2003.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE
Lynne Green reported that they have received and distributed a model from
Phillips.
NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES
None.
IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that the IBIS connector working group met on April
4, 2003 and again on April 10, 2003. The editorial comments on the
Touchstone specification have been addressed, although the document itself
has yet to be updated. On the ICM specification itself a 'Draft E' has been
issued, however there remain two open issues. One issue involves the exact
definition of "text block". The other issue involves the proper way to
designate AC return paths in the matrices. After discussion the connector
working group members agreed to hold a meeting on April 24, 2003 to resolve
these final issues, with the expectation that they would then release the
final draft 1.0 ICM specification to the IBIS Open Forum.
BIRD74.2 - EMI Parameters
Stephen Peters opened the discussion by noting that Guy de Burgh posted to
the IBIS reflector a recap of BIRD74.2 for discussion. Guy stated that it
has been almost a year since we have had technical discussions on this BIRD.
After a short overview of the BIRD's history a technical discussion ensued.
Stephen asked what was the intent of the "Family" keyword. Guy replied that
this keyword was intended to cover cases in which critical information about
a part was not available, but could be estimated if one knew the logic
family type. After discussion Guy agreed that if information is critical it
should be present, and he is in favor of removing this keyword. Guy also
clarified that the frequency parameter was meant to specify the operating
frequency of the I/O pins as a ratio of the highest internal frequency.
There were several questions on the 'heatsink capacitance' parameter.
Stephen asked how to derive this parameter. Guy stated that the intent
is to estimate heatsink capacitance assuming a traditional parallel plate
configuration between the heatsink and PCB power/gnd plane. Bob Ross and
others asked how this parameter would be used in cases where a heatsink
is optional. The consensus was that two IBIS models would be required,
depending on if the heatsink is present or not. However, there may be
other issues that need to be explored.
Finally, Stephen suggested renaming the proposed voltage range parameter to
"signal swing". Several folks pointed out that signal swing could be derived
from the existing I-V tables, and that may be even more applicable.
(However, it was later noted that in IBIS 4.1, I-V tables might not always
be available). Stephen asked what would be entered for voltage swing for a
serial bus that employs equalization techniques such as de-emphasis. Guy
replied that the intent was to capture the average signal swing. No
conclusion was reached on what was meant by average.
Guy will issue BIRD74.3 with changes for more discussion at the next
teleconference.
IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
John Angulo reported that he has looked into a proposed fix for BUG73,
"Extreme Non-monotonic I-V Tables Cause End Point Test to Fail". In brief,
John proposed that the parser should ignore any intersection points that
lie beyond the ground or power rail values. John noted that BUG73 was
actually introduced by the fix for BUG57, and the proposed fix for BUG73
was actually a better fix for BUG57. John will prototype this bug fix and,
if it works, forward it to Atul Agarwal for incorporation into the IBIS
4.0 parser.
- BUG71 - Monotonic Checking for Combined I-V Tables
Bob Haller posted to the reflector an updated table for BUG 71 that added
entries for ECL models and terminators. Stephen noted that by combining
curves, interpolation of voltage points may be required, and he wondered
if this might introduce unintended non-monotonic errors. No one was sure
if the current parser has a limit that prevents very small voltage
differences from causing non-monotonic errors. It was also noted by
several individuals that the first row of the posted table ('Input'
model type) has a TAB error that causes the 'XXX' values to show up in
the wrong column. Michael Mirmak will fix this error before uploading
the table to the BUG report. After discussion we decided we needed more
time to verify the table. We will assign a final resolution at the
next meeting.
- BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages
Stephen Peters posted the clarification text to the IBIS reflector. After
discussion we agreed to accept the revised table and classify the
BUG as 'to be fixed'. Michael Mirmak will upload the updated bug report.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting is scheduled for May 9, 2003 from 8:00
AM to 10:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time.
============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF4-215
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax: (425) 788-4289
lgreen@cadence.com
Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems
20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016
SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475
rrwolff@micron.com
Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc.
8000 S. Federal Way
Mail Stop: 711
Boise, ID 83707-0006
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398
roy.leventhal@ieee.org
Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications
1924 North Burke Drive
Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008
John_angulo@mentor.com
Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
majordomo@eda.org
In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector:
subscribe ibis <your e-mail address>
In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector:
subscribe ibis-users <your e-mail address>
Help and other commands:
help
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported
bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS
models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic
Information Group under:
http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
============================================================================
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org
|with the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
| help
| subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different>
| subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a request to ibis-request@eda.org.
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b28 : Mon Apr 21 2003 - 08:21:31 PDT