DATE: 12/16/02 SUBJECT: December 13, 2002 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2002 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri, Norio Matsui Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Patrick dos Santos, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, [Abdulrahmun Rafiq], Zhiping Yang, Mike LaBonte, Todd Westerhoff Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat) Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong) IBM Greg Edlund*, Pravin Patel Innoveda (Merged with Mentor John Angulo*, Guy de Burgh*, Steve Gascoigne Graphics) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Pete Block, Ben Silva, Tony Lewis, Michael Mirmak* LSI Logic [Larry Barnes], Frank Gasparik Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Ian Dodd, Mike Donnelly, Matt Hogan, Sherif Hammad, [Tom Dagostino], Eric Rongere, Karine Loudet, Kevin Cohan Micron Technology Randy Wolff Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Rick Kingen National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz, Tim Coyle* NEC Corporation (Akimoto Tetsuya) North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens (& Automotive) AG Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller, Eckhard Lenski Signal Integrity Software Barry Katz, Walter Katz, Robert Moles, Daniel Nilsson, Kevin Fisher, Steve Coe, Wiley Gillmor, Douglas Burns, Eric Brock, Bob Haller* Sigrity Raj Raghuram SiQual [Scott McMorrow], Dave Macemon, Rob Hinz Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin Teraspeed (Scott McMorrow), Tom Dagostino Time Domain Analysis Systems Steve Corey, Dima Smolyansky Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Caroline Legendre, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2002: 3Com (& CommWorks) [Roy Leventhal], James Goshorn Actel Prabhu Mohan Agilent Herbert Lage Airbus Claude Huet Alstom Transport Luca Giacotto Apt Software Atul Agarwal Astrium Olivier Prieur Bee Technologies Corporation Tsuyoshi Horigome Brocade Communications Robert Badal Compaq (merged with HP) Shafiq Ur Rahman Conexant Arzu Simsek EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin EFM Ekkehard Miersch EIA [Cecilia Fleming], Chris Denham EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jeanne Hereth, Elena Gutman, Simba Julian Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone Force Computers Roger Sukiennik Harman/Becker Automotive Hartmut Exler Systems Hitachi Nonoyama Sadahiro, Shoji Kazuyoshi Japan Electronics and Kiyomi Daishido Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) Leventhal Design and Roy Leventhal Communication National Institute of Applied Sebastian Calvet (& Motorola) Science (INSA) Etienne Sicard, Stephane Baffreau Northrup (Litton) Robert Bremer Qlogic Larry Barnes* Sagam SA Quang Ngo, Matthieu Fontaines Shindengen Elecric Mfg. Co. [Tsuyoshi Horigome] Sintecs Hans Klos STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres Synopsys (Avanti) (Hailong Wang) TDK Yoshikazu Fujishiro Thales Saverio Lerose Tyco Electronics (Tim Minnick) UTMC Greg Haynes Xilinx Susan Wu, J.L. de Long In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode January 10, 2003 (916) 356-2663 2 6877145 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Larry Barnes, who now represents Qlogic, joined. Larry is interested in enhancing IBIS to support current mode driver capability. Tim Coyle from National Semiconductor, who is responsible for IBIS model creation, called in for the first time. CALL FOR PATENTS Stephen Peters called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS Version 4.0 Standard. No companies declared a patent. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Stephen Peters reported that membership remains steady at 31 paid members. Stephen also mentioned that the EIA has mailed out dues invoices for 2003. 32 companies have been invoiced, and Stephen will follow-up to add a few more names. Stephen noted that starting with the first minutes in January (January 10, 2003 meeting) the participants list will be reset to just the existing Member company names and only a few other "Other participants ...". As in the past, the last archived minutes of the year capture the participation (individuals and companies) for that year. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S Bob Ross noted that the uploaded minutes for the November 22, 2002 meeting were modified to correct the spelling of Hitachi. The November 22, 2002 minutes were approved with this change. The ARs were discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Guy de Burgh reported that he will be stepping down from his position as Secretary on January 31 (after the DesignCon IBIS Summit Meeting in which he's coordinating the IBIS Booth). Stephen Peters indicated that a Randy Wolff of Micron has agreed to fill out the remainder of Guy's term starting on February 1, 2003. The position of IBIS Secretary is an elected position, and it is open to any other participants who wish to serve. The official election of the Secretary is scheduled for the IBIS teleconference on January 10, 2003. Anyone who is interested is welcome to contact Stephen or Guy to be put on the ballot. The nominations can be made at the meeting itself. However, only voting members are eligible for casting votes, and voting members unable to attend are welcome to submit their vote to Stephen by e-mail beforehand. While the duties are open-ended, the major duty is to refine and distribute the IBIS meeting minutes in a timely manner after each meeting. Other correspondence and documentation tasks may be requested by the Chair. Stephen Peters thanked Guy for his service over the years, both as IBIS secretary and as the person responsible for organizing the IBIS booth at DesignCon. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Stephen Peters reported that Syed Huq is continuing with Web Page updates. The Upcoming Events for the DATE 2003 European IBIS Summit Meeting has been updated. Stephen also noted that Syed is in the process of updating the default.htm link to point to the ibis.htm file that has been used since 1995 on the IBIS Home page. This is to avoid maintaining two pages. The Quality Committee link has been moved up one level to include all the documents. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE None reported. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross asked to add DATE 2003 IBIS Summit Meeting Planning to the agenda, along with a final resolution and action for BUG76. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters needs to review the some comments on the Cookbook and Report document. Bob Ross reported that the following URL links to the November meeting minutes and presentation notes. http://www.insa-tlse.fr/~emccompo/ DESIGNCON 2003 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING Stephen Peters reported that planning continues for the DesignCon2003 IBIS Summit sponsored by DesignCon2003 and National Semiconductor. The summit is scheduled for Monday, January 27, 2003 in Santa Clara, California at the Westin Hotel adjacent to the Santa Clara Convention Center. National Semiconductor is supplying the lunch and Stephen reminded those planning to attend to visit the IBIS web page under the upcoming events link and sign up with Milt Schwartz. Lynne Green has sent out a second summit announcement. Guy de Burgh will again set up the IBIS booth, and Stephen again asked for member companies to update their plaques. Only official IBIS members as of 2003 will be listed (e.g., no Innoveda or Hyperlynx) and only a few other contractor/supporters. Stephen and Lynne Green will work together to modify the current IBIS handout to list the IBIS links and extra summit presentations will be available. Stephen noted that the IBIS booth will be a neutral meeting place for all DesignCon participants since not all participants will have a booth this year. Stephen asked if someone else besides Bob Ross or Guy de Burgh would be willing to man the booth. Lynne Green indicated that she would also be willing to (wo)man the booth. Lynne reported that she and Arpad Muranyi have worked out the details of a potential webcast. Two phone lines are required (one for the internet access, the other for a phone bridge) along with a phone call into a conference bridge for a total cost of approximately $700. So far we do not have a funding commitment, and unless a company is willing to step forward and cover the cost we will not proceed with the webcast. Stephen noted that this would be an opportunity for a company to co-sponsor the summit. Finally, Stephen noted that the following individuals have signed up to present at the summit (presentation titles are tentative) - Stephen Peters, Intel, IBIS Report - Dima Smolysansky, TDA Systems, TBD - Barry Katz, Signal Integrity Software, Quality Committee Report - Atsuji Ito, Matsushita (Panasonic), JEITA/IBIS Activity Report - Bob Ross, Mentor, TBD - Arpad Muranyi, Intel, Certain effects in differential modeling Bob noted that we have about 20 participants already signed up. Again, other presentations are encouraged. DATE 2003 IBIS SUMMIT PLANNING Bob Ross reported that he has begun preliminary planning for the European IBIS Summit. This summit is held in conjunction with the DATE 2003 conference in Munich Germany, and a tentative date of Friday, March 8, 2003 has been selected. Summit Co-sponsors include Mentor Corporation, Siemens AG and Zuken with one more company likely. Bob noted that we are looking for additional sponsors to share the cost. IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING ISSUES Lynne Green reported that she sent a letter to the current membership asking who is willing to fund the IBIS 4.0 parser development. Currently, we have four respondents who can fund parser development if budgets are approved and another three that are probable. The goal is to have 10 committed purchases orders at a minimum of $2,084 a piece before starting the project. Lynne also asked to discuss the issue of selling interim 3.2 licenses to those companies that want or need to purchase a license for immediate work before the IBIS 4.0 parser is completed. Just within the past month we have had two new companies request licenses for IBIS 3.2 parser source code. Stephen Peters proposed that we allow these companies to purchase a version 3.2 parser source code license at the current price, then upgrade them as the 4.0 parser source code becomes available. After discussion, we agreed to allow companies to purchase the 3.2 version parser for the current price, then allow them to upgrade to the 4.0 version of the parser, paying only the incremental cost (if any). IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE Bob Haller reported that IBIS quality committee met on December 3, 2002. The next meeting is scheduled for December 17, 2002. The meeting time is shifted to 9 AM EST (6 AM PST) to accommodate both the participation from Europe and Japan. Bob stated that the committee is making steady progress finishing the documentation in support of the checklist. Bob also remarked that there has been good representation from Europe and Japan. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE Lynne Green reported no new models to review. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES None. IBIS FUTURES AND CONNECTOR WORKING GROUP REPORT Lynne Green reported that she has not yet drawn up a statement of work for Kelly Green (the ICM parser developer). However, Kelly Green has reviewed the ICM specification and will write up his comments. Michael Mirmak has also formalized his earlier comments. In order to review these comments Lynne announced that the futures committee will resume meeting. A preliminary date of January 9, 2003 was suggested, and Lynne will solidify this date after the first of the year. Lynne will be sure and invite Gus Panella. BIRD75.7 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support BIRD77.2 - Differential Subparameter Additions Bob Ross reported that he has been having extensive off-line discussion with Arpad Muranyi and Michael Mirmak on both the format and technical details of BIRD75.7. Michael has undertaken a rewrite that restructures the flow and outline of the BIRD. The new draft should be ready for Bob's review by Friday, December 13, 2002. Assuming the BIRD is posted to the reflector in time, an review and vote will be scheduled for the January 10, 2003 IBIS meeting. BIRD78.1 - Comment Line Length Limit Based on discussion at the last meeting Lynne Green has posted BIRD78.1. The line length limit has been changed to call out a 120 character limit, and the limit now applies to any line, not just comment lines. Stephen Peters asked if there was any more discussion on this BIRD, none was forthcoming. It was agreed that we will schedule a vote on BIRD78.1 at the January 10, 2003 teleconference meeting. BIRD80 - Add External Reference Column to Pin Mapping Keyword Michael Mirmak introduced BIRD80, which extends the [Pin Mapping] keyword columns to account the [External Reference] keyword added in version 4.0. Michael noted that adding this extra column breaks the current line length limit of 80 characters, thus BIRD 78.1 will have to be accepted before this BIRD can be voted on. Michael has received one editorial comment so far. In addition, Bob Ross suggested changing the added column heading to "ext_ref" to prevent line wrap in the IBIS document itself. Michael agrees with this suggestion. Bob also brought up an issue regarding which [Pin Mapping] columns are optional and which are required. After a short discussion Bob and Michael agreed to resolve the issue offline. Michael will issue a revised BIRD80.1, and assuming it is issued in time we will vote on it at the January 10, 2003 meeting. BIRD79 - Non-linear buffer impedance (extension to C_comp) Larry Barnes indicated that he felt this BIRD will be useful for modeling buffers that run at a clock rate greater than 1GhZ. In response to a question, Arpad Muranyi clarified that this BIRD attempts to model C_comp variations due to both frequency and voltage. Bob Haller then asked if this BIRD gave the model maker the ability to model different C_comp values for receiving and driving. Arpad replied that this functionality was not covered by the current list of subparameters, but this case could be handled by implementing the functionality of this BIRD using the proposed multi-lingual modeling extensions. In continuation of last meetings discussion, Arpad asked how the committee felt about proceeding with this BIRD. Both Stephen Peters and Bob Ross agreed that while the modeling technique is valuable, in light of the multi-lingual modeling proposal it was redundant. Bob added that the committee should have a full discussion on the utility of implementing this BIRD, but if forced to vote today he would vote no. After discussion the consensus is to defer discussion and vote on this BIRD until we have voted on BIRD75.7 and the other proposed IBIS 4.1 extensions. (Luca Giacotto supplied some clarification text to suppliment the above discussion as a correction to these minutes approved at the January 10, 2003 IBIS Meeting. Arpad Muranyi sent this to the IBIS reflector.) Concerning the question from Bob Haller reported in the minutes (see copy below), I would correct the reply. I think the answer is "yes": the parameters in the BIRD give to the model maker the maximum of freedom. He can model the "voltage-dependent" and "frequency-dependent" behaviour of "C_comp" in EACH ONE of the three possible states. The 24 parameters in the actual BIRD include *) 8 parameters to describe "C_comp" in the OUTPUT-LOW state; *) 8 parameters to describe "C_comp" in the OUTPUT-HIGH state; *) 8 parameters to describe "C_comp" in the INPUT state; Also, I would like to point out that with the proposed description of the die-capacitance the currents flowing in the four references ([Pullup Reference], [Pulldown Reference], [POWER Clamp Reference] and [GND Clamp Reference]) are "correct". Which should be useful to investigate ground-bounce and radiation problems. (End of Correction) BIRD74.2 - EMI Parameters Bob Ross suggested that we defer discussion and vote on BIRD74.2 until we have a chance to dispose of some of the other birds. This was agreed to. IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS Stephen Peters noted that we still have four bugs related to quality committee upgrades that must be dispositioned. - BUG71 - Monotonic Checking for Combined I-V Tables Bob Haller has updated the BUG report to clarify which I-V table combination are legal and illegal, but he has yet to send it out. Bob will send the updated BUG report to Bob Ross for review, with any sticky issues to be reviewed by the full committee. - BUG74 - Missing Timing Test Load Warning Messages This BUG report is awaiting clarification from Greg Edlund on several issues having to do with assumed default values for Cref, Vref, etc. Bob Ross pointed Greg to the updated bug report for specific details on what need to be clarified. Greg will follow-up. - BUG77 - Test for Series* Models in [Pin] Error Bob Ross introduced this bug, as reported by Lance Wang of Cadence. Lance noted that the parser does not report an error when a series model appears in the [Pin] keyword. After discussion this bug was assigned Moderate, Medium, Open with the disposition code "to be fixed". - BUG78 - Clamp Current Double Counting Test Bob Ross introduced this bug, which was reported by Roy Leventhal. While this bug has a test case, it is still incomplete as to the bug specifics and how to detect the reported error. We will defer classification until we receive and update from Roy. - BUG76 - External Package Under Win32 Requires Writeable Root Bob Ross noted that the final disposition this BUG report must still be decided. After discussion we decided to classify this bug as low, Open and "fixed at next release". NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, January 10, 2003 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific time. Votes on BIRD78.1, BIRD80.1, BIRD75.7 and BIRD77.2 are scheduled. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831 stephen.peters@intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF4-215 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 788-4289 lgreen@cadence.com Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems 20 120th Ave NE, Suite 103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 guy_deburgh@mentor.com Senior Manager, Mentor Graphics 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398 roy.leventhal@ieee.org Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications 1924 North Burke Drive Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008 John_angulo@mentor.com Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================