Hi Cynthia, It will probably be best if you contact Mentor about their keyword support for Rref_diff. Mentor has a couple of different tools and parsers (ICX Pro, ICX IS, HyperLynx) and they all work a little different depending on the version you have. And while the IBIS Specification allows you to specify keywords like Rref_diff there is no guarantee that a specific tool vendor is supporting that keyword. In general the Rref_diff keyword is used as part of a reference load for the manufacturer's AC timing. Depending on the differential technology the manufacturer is using it may or may not be applicable. Best, Timothy Coyle President Signal Consulting Group LLC 405 Western Ave #430 South Portland, ME 04106 Tel: 617.297.2566 Email: <mailto:%20tim.coyle@siconsultant.com> tim.coyle@siconsultant.com Web: <http://www.siconsultant.com/> http://www.siconsultant.com <http://www.sharksim.com/> SharkSim - IBIS Modeling Made Easy From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Low Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:55 AM To: Bob Ross Cc: ibis-users@server.eda.org; bob@teraspeed.com Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Rref_diff keyword Hi Bob Thank you so much for your reply. It was indeed helpful. However, there is something that I was not certain off and hope you can help to clarify. In your reply, you mentioned that Rref_diff can be used but to prevent the parser warning message by adding in the Cref,Vref and Rref subparameters. Which parser checker are you refering to? IBISchecker v4.x..x? Can you please specify?I basically use the latest IBIS checker v4.2.2 to check and there is no warning on the usage. Also, I will be using this Rref_diff keyword for a dedicated differential output buffer and Cref, Vref and Rref will not exist, (which you suggest to state Cref = 0F ,Vref=1.163 (to follow Vmeas?) and Rref=1E9), this can be applied? It is a dedicated output buffer which do not share any single ended timing test-load information, it could still be use in that way? You can refer back to the previous attachement for the timing test load that I wish to specified (resistor). Lastly and most importantly, I noticed that this Rref_diff keyword, which is used in v4.1 IBIS specification is not integreted into many simulation tool yet, and also the ICX checker may not allow this keyword to pass, if so, can this subparameters still be use? How will the simulator tools interprete the Rref_diff keyword. Also, if the simulator is using a v3.2 ibis checker, this keyword will be redundant as it will not pass, am I rite? Could you please kindly comment on this? Rref_diff and Cref_diff can also be used for [Model]s when they are connected by the [Diff Pin] keyword without the [External Model] extension. However, to prevent parser warning messages, it is strongly encouraged to still add the Cref and/or Vref and Rref subparameters. Cref can be 0 F and/or Rref can be very large. The parser check was added to be sure that the model maker intentially meant to have a negligible single-ended timing test load. Thanks and best regards Cynthia _____ From: Bob Ross <bob@teraspeed.com> To: Cynthia Low <ibis_user@yahoo.com> Cc: ibis-users@server.eda.org; bob@teraspeed.com Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 1:45:08 PM Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Rref_diff keyword Hi Cynthia: My answers are in your text. Best Regards, Bob Cynthia Low wrote: > Dear IBIS experts > I am currently looking at the Rref_diff subparameters under the [model] keyword and the usage of this subparameters. This subparameters is only available in IBIS specification of v4.1 but not in older version. May I know how this subparameters keyword is being used? the detail of the question is as below. > IBIS Spec: > Rref_diff is used for true differential buffer timing test loads. where the buffer hv to be specified only when the [Diff Pin] > keyword connects two models, and each buffer references the same model. The Rref_diff and Cref_diff subparameters can be used with the Rref, Cref, and Vref subparameters for a combined differential and signal-ended timing test load. > 1. My questions will be, can this Rref_diff sub-parameters be used ONLY when we engaged using the true differential [External Model] with either spice or vhdl-ams? As shown in the IBIS spec. Yes, Rref_diff can be the only timing test load parameter for true differential buffers, as illustrated in Section 6b. > 2. Can this Rref_diff keyword be used in the context of a normal true differential buffer under the [Model] keyword, and at the same time the model is define under [Diff Pin] section to describe the timing test loads just like how the rest of the Cref, Vref keyword are used to facilitate for board-level timing simulation, with the setup as attached. Can the Rref_diff keyword used under the example below? Rref_diff and Cref_diff can also be used for [Model]s when they are connected by the [Diff Pin] keyword without the [External Model] extension. However, to prevent parser warning messages, it is strongly encouraged to still add the Cref and/or Vref and Rref subparameters. Cref can be 0 F and/or Rref can be very large. The parser check was added to be sure that the model maker intentially meant to have a negligible single-ended timing test load. So the example below may produce parser Warning messages. If that is the case, I would add Cref = 0F and/or possibly Vref=1.163 Rref=1E9 as needed to remove any Warning messages. > [Model] 25_lvds > Model_type Output > Polarity Non-Inverting > Enable Active-Low > Rref_diff = 100 > Vmeas = 1.163 > C_comp 1.8pF 1.8pF 1.8pF Please kindly comment. Thanks. > Regards > Cynthia > > > -- -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <http://www.mailscanner.info/> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993Received on Tue Jul 7 07:57:56 2009
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