OK I stand corrected (didn’t even think of searching the birds). And Yes I completely agree that the large non-monotonic edges often seen on pins of FPGA’s can corrupt timing results too. *From:* Scott McMorrow [mailto:scott@teraspeed.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2013 1:39 PM *To:* Robert Haller *Cc:* Aubrey Sparkman; Muranyi, Arpad; IBIS; IBIS-users *Subject:* Re: [IBIS] SI_location / Timing_Location Actually, Si_location and Timing_location go back to 1997 and were introduced by Bob Ross of Interconnectix (pre-Mentor) http://www.eda.org/ibis/birds/bird43.txt Timing_location may also need to be changed to die for large FPGA type devices, because of large non-monotonic signals at the pins. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Robert Haller <rhaller@enterasys.com> wrote: I think the SiSoft guys probably pushed for this a while ago. Their software can do chip to chip timing either at pin or pad (on either end of transmission line). Usually one performs static timing from pin to pin because then there is no double counting when using data sheet timing specs. But if you are designing the silicon and the package, there are good reasons to perform timing pad to pad when you are trying to shave picoseconds. Regards Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Aubrey Sparkman Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 2:19 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad Cc: IBIS; IBIS-users Subject: Re: [IBIS] SI_location / Timing_Location I have used these switches, though I'm not sure I gave them different values. Possible scenario... Interface specs timing at pin, but I want to make sure edges are monotonic at the silicon. Just a though. Aubrey Sparkman Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2013, at 11:44 AM, "Muranyi, Arpad" <Arpad_Muranyi@mentor.com> wrote: > Hello IBIS experts, > > Someone asked me the question whether Si_location and Timing_Location > can have two different values because they have an IBIS file which > does that. > > In attempt to answer their question, I searched the IBIS specification > for Si_location and only found this sentence on pg. 16 (in v5.1): > > "Si_location and Timing_location are optional and specify where the Signal Integrity and Timing measurements are made for the component. Allowed values for either subparameter are "Die" or "Pin". The default location is at the "Pin"." > > I found no other occurrences of "Si_location" or "Timing_location" > in the entire specification, i.e. their meaning, usage and purpose are > not defined. Or am I missing something? > > Going back to the original question, does it make sense to have two > different values for these two parameters? > > Thanks, > > Arpad > ===================================================================== > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail mikelabonte@eda-stds.org > |or ibis-request@eda-stds.org > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail mikelabonte@eda-stds.org |or ibis-request@eda-stds.org | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail mikelabonte@eda-stds.org |or ibis-request@eda-stds.org | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 -- Scott McMorrow Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 16 Stormy Brook Rd Falmouth, ME 04105 (401) 284-1827 Business http://www.teraspeed.com Teraspeed® is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail mikelabonte@eda-stds.org |or ibis-request@eda-stds.org | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993Received on Tue Aug 27 10:54:45 2013
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