From owner-ibis Fri Dec 1 09:47:03 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB1Hl0j18262 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from svr-orw-exc-02.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id JAA10923; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:43:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com (bob.wv.mentorg.com [147.34.83.63]) by svr-orw-exc-02.wv.mentorg.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id W8J13DZ3; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:43:33 -0800 Sender: bobr@relay1.mentorg.com Message-ID: <3A27E343.98C092A2@mentor.com> Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 09:43:31 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS Meeting Agenda 12/8/00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 12/8/00 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode (916) 356-9200 8-177128 7335175 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Ross - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Ross - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Ross/Fleming - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Ross - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update LaBonte, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) Ross/Fleming - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) Ross - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) Perrin/Ross - JEDEC JC-16 Modeling and Testing Sessions Future Summit Planning Ross IBIS Model Review Committee Angulo New Administrative Issues All 8:45 Technical Discussion (some topics may be deferred) Connector Proposal Review Panella IBIS Futures Group Report (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Peters BIRD64.4 - Alternate Package Models Selector (Vote) Muranyi/Cohen BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref Addition (Vote) Ross BIRD67.1 - Increase V-T Table 100 Point Limit (Vote) Ross/Dodd BIRD65 - C_comp Refinements Muranyi BIRD68 - Clarify that Rising and Falling Waveform Lorang Tables Should be Correlated ibischk3 Bug Tracking Ross - BUG49 Warning Message for Unreferenced Models, Ross/Mirmak Submodels New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Ross 9:55 Sign Off From owner-ibis Tue Dec 5 14:37:15 2000 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB5MbDj10748 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:37:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) id OAA18035 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:33:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmh1.nsc.com(139.187.179.130) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (4.1) id xmag17277; Tue, 5 Dec 00 14:32:34 -0800 Received: from galaxy.nsc.com by scmh1.nsc.com with ESMTP for ibis@eda.org; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:32:33 -0800 Received: from xi.nsc.com (xi.nsc.com [139.187.209.24]) by galaxy.nsc.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10651 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:32:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from schwartz@localhost) by xi.nsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id OAA01884 for ibis@eda.org; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:32:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 14:32:31 -0800 (PST) From: Milt Schwartz x3261 Message-Id: <200012052232.OAA01884@xi.nsc.com> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: 1st Agenda, DesignCon 2k1 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------- DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT CALL FOR PARTICIPATION, PRESENTATIONS ---------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: 8:00 PM - 5:00 PM, Monday, January 29, 2001 Location: Santa Clara Convention Center Santa Clara, CA Content: IBIS Future Requirements is the main topic of this meeting These include an exchange of ideas on IBIS accuracy, connectors, and new requirements under discussion. Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: DesignCon 2001 & National Semiconductor Corporation IBIS Summit Signup: Milt Schwartz schwartz@galaxy.nsc.com D E S I G N C O N 2 0 0 0 M E E T I N G S Time/Date: Monday - Thursday, January 29 - February 1, 2001 Exhibition: Tuesday - Wednesday, 12:30 PM - 6:30 PM, January 30-31, 2001 IBIS Booth: #861, Exhibition Hall - IBIS Information URL DesignCon2001: http://www.designcon.com/ CALL FOR IBIS SUMMIT PRESENTATIONS We already have several presentations and discussion topics planned. However, we are also seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Format of Presentation: Overhead Projections Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. If you cannot provide an electronic format, then plan to bring 50 copies for distribution at the meeting. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Milt Schwartz schwartz@galaxy.nsc.com Deadline: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 for receiving presentations for copying. AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, refreshments, and a free buffet luncheon for participants. In addition, we will have an opportunity for Ad Hoc presentations and extended discussions. Currently we have: "Spice 2 IBIS Accuracy Report", Scott McMorrow, Siqual Milt Schwartz Interface Applications National Semiconductor 2900 Semiconductor Dr. Mail Stop A2595 Santa Clara, CA 95052 email: schwartz@galaxy.nsc.com Phone: 408 721 3261 Fax : 408 721 4785 From owner-ibis Wed Dec 6 15:50:51 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB6Nolj16740 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:50:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from svr-orw-exc-02.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id PAA28678; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:47:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com (bob.wv.mentorg.com [147.34.83.63]) by svr-orw-exc-02.wv.mentorg.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id Y2ZHCHQ9; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:47:19 -0800 Sender: bobr@relay1.mentorg.com Message-ID: <3A2ED006.BF071ECE@mentor.com> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 15:47:18 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS Topics for Friday 12/8/00 Meeting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To All: We plan to vote on BIRDs 64.4, 66 and 67.1. You can review them at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/birds/index.html Also, if time permits, we plan to discuss the resolution of BUG49 and also classify recently entered BUGs 51 and 52. They can be reviewed at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/ Bob Ross Mentor Graphics From owner-ibis Wed Dec 6 17:33:17 2000 Received: from mario.zyan.com (mario.zyan.com [209.250.96.140]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB71XGj17158 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:33:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from web (node-64-145-180-250.dslspeed.zyan.com [64.145.180.250]) by mario.zyan.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA06258 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:29:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Plam@optimalcorp.com) Message-ID: <002a01c05fee$31f81150$6519f9d1@web> From: "Patrick Lam" To: Subject: email list Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:37:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Please add my name to your email list . Thanks Patrick Lam Optimal Corporation 6980 Santa Teresa Blvd. #100 San Jose, Ca 95119 Tel: 408-363-6300 x 101 Fax: 408-363-6305 Http://www.optimalcorp.com From owner-ibis Mon Dec 11 17:57:59 2000 Received: from intermailhost.viewlogic.com (intermailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.6.17]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBC1vvj08381 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:57:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.viewlogic.com (mailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.3.35]) by intermailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24808 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:54:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com (taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com [139.181.194.20]) by mailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11912 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from f22.innoveda.com (f22.camarillo.innoveda.com [139.181.194.48]) by taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11088 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by f22.innoveda.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA19289; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:54:22 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:54:22 -0800 From: guy@camarillo.innoveda.com (Guy de Burgh) Message-Id: <200012120154.RAA19289@f22.innoveda.com> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes (12/08/00) Date: 12/11/00 SUBJECT: 12/8/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com Roy Leventhal* Agilent (EEsof, etc.) Mark Chang Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Brocade Communications Robert Badal Cadence Design [Mike LaBonte], [Todd Westerhoff], Ian Dodd*, Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher Compaq [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Fabrizio Zanella, Brian Arsenault, Terry Jernberg, Alexander Nosovitski, Elena Gutman, Shan Haq Fairchild Semiconductor Craig Klem HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, [Kellee Crisafulli], (Now merged with Innoveda) Gene Garat, John Angulo, [Al Davis], Lynne Green IBM Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund*, Jerry Hayes Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems) Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, [Jun Tian], Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar, Sigeti Gabi, Tudor Secasiu, Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak* LSI Logic Larry Barnes* Mentor Graphics (& Veribest) Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash, Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad, Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Son Huynh, Yong Phan* Mitsubishi Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy, Scott Estrich Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* Nortel Networks Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker, Kathy Breda, Jinhua Chen Philips Semiconductor D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen (& VLSI Technology) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Robinson-Nugent, Inc. (Alexander Barr) Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert SiQual Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson Texas Instruments Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey, Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin, Jean-Yves Oberle Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey Tyco Electronics (AMP) (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Werner Rissiek, John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000: Actel Corp. Silvia Montoya Advansis Mikio Kiyono Aerospatiale Matra CCR Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie Alcatel (Lannion, Bell) Daniel Peron, Steven Criel Cereva Networks Bob Haller ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA Cecilia Fleming* Fraunhofer Institute Michael Kurten Jet Propulsion Lab John Treichlew KAW Shinichi Maeda Hewlett Packard Paul Gregory RCI Chris Rode Rockwell Collins Ron Hau Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins ST Microelectronics Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Thomson-CSF Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak, Sylvie Lasserre Transfer Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis Xilinx, Inc. Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Hideki Fukuda, Al Davis In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode January 5, 2001 (916) 356-9200 3-454694 8973669 January 29, 2001 - IBIS Summit Meeting, No Teleconference All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Bob Ross noted that Ian Dodd is now the primary representative for Cadence since Mike LaBonte has changed jobs. Larry Barnes joined for the first time this year from LSI Logic. He had previously been involved in IBIS from Symbios prior to being acquired by LSI Logic. Larry's interest in IBIS is related to some ANSI SCSI-3 committee work and some emerging related issues. This will be discussed later in the meeting. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Cecilia Fleming reported that 33 invoices for 2001 have been sent out to the member companies. We are still trying to find a new representative for one company. In 2001 HyperLynx will not invoiced since they are now merged with Innoveda. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The November 17, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved without change. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None (some announcement items will be new agenda items discussed elsewhere). PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Cecilia Fleming reported that she received and installed web updates from Syed Huq for Poster, Upcoming Events, and Free Utilities changes. One company logo was removed form the Poster page because of a company merger making the old logo invalid. Bob Ross mentioned that the HyperLynx logo might also be removed per the instructions to Syed from Guy de Burgh of Innoveda. Bob also reported that the article "Optimize Power Distribution Analysis in High-Speed Systems Designs" by Todd Westerhoff in the November 20, 2000 issue of Electronic Design mentions IBIS modeling. The article can also be found under the magazine link: http://www.elecdesign.com/ NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported that the Fujitsu flash memory IBIS model link has changed: http://edevice.fujitsu.com/fj/CATALOG/AD05/IBIS/index_e.html Also, Intel has released the Pentium(R) 4 Processor models under: http://developer.intel.com/design/pentium4/devtools/ OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Michael Mirmak - BUG51 - Error Message Needed for Missing [Submodel] Michael Mirmak - BUG52 - IBISCHK3 Hangs for [Add Submodel] Instead of [Submodel] Greg Edlund - New Accuracy figure of merit C code (New Administrative Issues) Bob Ross - Upcoming vacations and next meeting (New Administrative Issues) Bob Ross - IBIS Librarian (New Administrative Issues) Roy Leventhal - Modeling Semiconductor Components from 30,000 Feet (Part of Future Summit Planning) Larry Barnes - SCSI-3 Compensation Modeling (Part of Future Summit Planning) INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming had no further report, but she will follow up on the status by e-mail. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - No report. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross commented that Jean-Claude Perrin had gave us status at the November 17, 2000 meeting. Bob had no further report. - JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - Bob Ross noted that the JEDEC JC-16 and JC-42 are meeting December 6-7, 2000 in Kona, Hawaii. We should find out more at the next meeting. Cecilia Fleming offered to send the JEDEC minutes to Bob to keep him informed. FUTURE SUMMIT PLANNING (Including some new agenda items) Bob Ross stated again the basic information that the next IBIS Summit Meeting is planned on January 29, 2001 in Santa Clara, California along with DesignCon 2001 (January 29 - February 1, 2000). National Semiconductor is a co-sponsor of this meeting and will provide the lunch. Milt Schwartz is planning for 50 lunches. DesignCon is the other co-sponsor as a result of IBIS Associate Sponsorship of DesignCon 2001. Bob noted that the first announcement has been sent out. Milt reported that he has received six signups already. Bob estimated over 10 signups so far and will get more input from Milt offline. We have been assigned Booth #861. Guy de Burgh reported receiving the show manual from Bob, and he and Jon Powell will be responsible for setting up the booth. Bob asked Guy to work with Jon to request the company logo information again for the Booth backdrop. Bob discussed the meeting agenda to date. Some topics were added. The titles listed may change. "Spice 2 IBIS Accuracy Report", Scott McMorrow, Siqual "Connector Specification Discussion", Gus Panella, Molex "IBIS Futures", Stephen Peters, Intel Several New Agenda Items were discussed, and these relate to additional presentations: "Modeling Semiconductor Components from 30,000 Feet", Roy Leventhal, 3Com. Roy Leventhal stated that he has written a "paper" related to general modeling issues spanning Spice, matrix, and behavioral techniques. He has sent it out for some early private review. Eventually he would like it uploaded on a public site. Bob stated that it is more like a book with about 250 pages, nine sections and an appendix. Bob read the section titles to illustrate the broad coverage. Roy would introduce this paper at the IBIS Summit Meeting. "SCSI-3 Compensation Modeling" Larry Barnes, LSI Logic. Larry Barnes is involved with an ANSI T10 committee on Low Level Parallel Interfaces. He is serving as technical editor for subgroup and is using IBIS as part of the specification. The committee is concerned with SCSI buffers driving 12 foot cables. It defining a bit encoding technique for run length encoded based changes in signal amplitude. Larry wants to discuss issues on how to apply IBIS. The document is planned to be completed around March 2001. Bob stated that this could be of interest for existing IBIS and also for the future version of IBIS. Bob noted that we will have a full meeting. We probably will get a few more presentations related to Future IBIS issues. Bob also stated the early plans for the European IBIS Summit meeting to be held March 16, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing in Europe (DATE 2001) conference and exhibit. Bob indicated that four companies are now planning to co-sponsor the meeting: Cadence, Innoveda, Mentor Graphics and Zuken (Incases). IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora reported for John Angulo who is on vacation that no models have been recently submitted or sent out. NEW ACCURACY FIGURE OF MERIT C CODE (New Agenda Item) Greg Edlund reported that the IBIS Home Page Accuracy Link now has a new C utility for calculating two existing figures of merit and also two new ones from waveform files. This utility is freeware and can be used and modified by anyone. Greg plans to send out a reflector note. Bob Ross indicated that there was also good documentation with it. VACATIONS AND NEXT MEETING (New Agenda Item) Bob Ross mentioned that several people will be out during the Christmas and New Years holidays. Bob Ross: December 11 - December 26 Jon Angulo: Returning December 13 Matthew Flora: December 18 - December 29 Guy de Burgh: December 24 - January 1 Stephen Peters: Possibly December 22 Based on this we agreed to move the December 22 meeting to January 5, 2001. We also had considered January 12, 2001, but will cancel that reservation. The IBIS Summit Meeting at DesignCon 2001 on January 29, 2001 will follow in just over three weeks. IBIS LIBRARIAN (New Agenda Item) Bob Ross indicated that Mike LaBonte has resigned the Librarian position as a result of accepting a new job. Bob has several potential candidates to replace Mike. They include Michael Cohen and Roy Leventhal. Anyone else who wants to be considered for this position should contact Bob. Bob plans that the IBIS Committee select or formally vote for someone at the next meeting on January 5, 2001. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW Bob Ross reported that the Working Group has been meeting weekly on November 21, November 28, and December 5, 2000. The next meeting is scheduled on December 12, 2000. Ian Dodd reported that there has been progress in clarifying the matrix expansion discussion, and also there is a new, formal language for naming pins. Bob felt that we have agreed on most technical issues and are nearing completion and hopes to have a complete technical draft prior to the DesignCon IBIS Summit. The draft will probably not be as editorially clean as would like. However we want to make the technical content available as early as possible for review and plan to clean up the document while it is being reviewed. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Bob Ross noted that the Working Group met on November 21, November 28, and December 5, 2000. The next meeting is scheduled on December 19, 2000. Stephen Peters (who is taking over for Mike LaBonte) reported that the Working Group is producing a top level specification. There still needs to be work on a component section to deal with die interconnect and pin to buffer modeling. The macro language has been developed, but it needs to be more formally documented. Bob noted that we would like a very readable document that communicates the new features and shows how they relate to the existing IBIS Version 3.2 (for upward compatibility). Stephen would like the new Header section to be compatible with the Connector Specification Header. Since several members are in both Working Groups, the Header documents should be similar. BIRD64.4 - ALTERNATE PACKAGE MODELS Bob Ross introduced BIRD64.4 by indicating that it had been discussed at the November 17, 2000 meeting. We had agreed upon some "editorial" changes. It is permissible to make minor changes as long as they do not impact the basic functionality. We ran out of time before voting on BIRD64.3 with changes. So Mike LaBonte issued BIRD64.4 after the meeting with the editorial changes and complied with the AR at that meeting. Bob summarized the changes: Use "shall" instead of "may", remove part of one slightly ambiguous portion of a sentence that constrained where [Alternative Package Models] would be placed under the [Component] keyword, and add a sentence that any model listed by [Package Model] could be repeated in the [Alternative Package Models] list. Arpad Muranyi, a co-author, supported the changes. Bob stated that most of the recent concerns were related to editorial preferences and not technical issues. After no further discussion, Bob called for a vote. BIRD64.4 was approved by a vote of 10 YES and 0 NO. BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION Bob Ross introduced BIRD66 by noting that it had been originally introduced by Scott McMorrow in November 1999. Bob stated that the Vref subparameter would be added to the [Model Spec] lists to capture cases where Vref is different for min and max voltages. An example would be for PECL technology. Bob stated that there were cases where the timing test load would change with supply variations. However, there were other considerations that delayed immediate resolution. We thought that we might use BIRD66 to also consider possible Rref and Cref changes. We also might have added an series resistor to the timing test load such as used by some SSTL configurations. However, based upon D.C. Sessions recommendation, we were discouraged from adding this. Instead, JEDEC will try not to use the series resistor. Finally, there are some cases where the rising edge uses a different test load than the falling edge. Bob basically supported the notion that we should just consider Vref only as in BIRD66. We can issue other BIRDs if additional subparameters are requested. Bob also stated that there might be questions in how Rref would be used. Originally the timing test load was considered only for use with typical column information to get a common delay reference value. However, in practice, some models have been issued with timing test loads connected for minimum and maximum voltages corners. Bob supported adding the Vref subparameter and letting the EDA vendors use (or ignore) the information as appropriate. With no further discussion, Bob called for a vote. BIRD66 was approved by a vote of 10 YES and 0 NO. BIRD67.1 - INCREASE V-T TABLE 100 POINT LIMIT Bob Ross mentioned that issues regarding increasing the number of allowable data points in V-T had been discussed in previous meetings. We resolved to set the limit at 1000 (versus 1001). We also limited BIRD67.1 to V-T tables. A separate BIRD would need to be issued for V-I table limits. Finally, to resolve an ambiguity raised by Michael Cohen, we changed "points" to "rows" in BIRD67.1. This means that the 1000 point limit is on number of rows rather than the number of numerical entries. So NA entries in any column are included in the row count. Co-author Ian Dodd had no further comments. With no further discussion, Bob called for a vote. BIRD67.1 was approved by a vote of 10 YES and 0 NO. With the resolution of the above three BIRDs and also of a previous BIRD62.6, Bob plans to upload a new pending IBIS Version 4.0 work in progress document that includes the resolved BIRDs. BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Bob Ross stated that Arpad Muranyi originally issued BIRD65 in October 1999. Bob wants to move this toward resolution. BIRD65 describes splitting up C_comp into components attached to four different power rails. We had discussed aspects of BIRD65 previously and decided to use actual capacitance values rather than to use percentages. Bob suggested changing the subparameter names to better associate with the actual supply rails. BIRD65 uses: C_comp_pu, C_comp_pd, C_comp_pcl, and C_comp_gcl. Bob proposed: C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power, C_comp_gnd. We have chosen names in other cases such as the [Rpower] and [Rgnd] keywords to emphasize the association with the corresponding rail. Arpad stated that he had similar concerns and supported the changing the subparameter names. We discussed briefly that BIRD65 does state rules for when all of the new subparameters are needed. We need to review these rules. Also Bob commented that we need to look in the Notes on Data Derivation section to see if some changes need to be done there to reference the new subparameters. Bob asked Arpad to issue BIRD65.1 with the notation change and also with any added text needed for the Notes on Data Derivation section. AR - Arpad Muranyi issue BIRD65.1 with notation changes and possible Notes on Data Derivation section changes per the above discussion. Bob plans to schedule BIRD65.1 for a vote at the January 5, 2001 IBIS meeting. BIRD68 - CLARIFY THAT RISING AND FALLING WAVEFORM TABLES SHOULD BE CORRELATED Bob Ross noted that BIRD68, authored by Dave Lorang, was scheduled for discussion at the last meeting, but we ran out of time. Stephen Peters briefly stated that BIRD68 dealt with correlating to a common reference time the rising and falling edge waveforms. This is needed for capturing internal delays correctly for each edge and for meanful eye diagrams and intersymbol interference analysis. Milt Schwartz added later that this is necessary for differential drivers. Bob Ross added later that submodels and driver schedule models may require time correlation in certain cases. Stephen raised one concern. Do we add a positive indication such as a subparameter that the waveforms are correlated? This would provide a method to document correlation and be compatible with IBIS Version 3.2 models where such compatibility may not exist. Bob is leaning against this, but understands that there are concerns regarding providing such models in some special case measurement or simulation situations. Bob also was concerned with the specific language "input stimulus is assumed to have initiated at the logic transition". This could be interpreted as the time of actually triggering the transition - an undefined or hard to determine value. A better statement might refer to a common reference point for the input stimulus, such as the beginning of the input stimulus waveform for each edge. While there might be some slight error in this approach based on input signal amplitude or ramp rate, this approach would still be more consistent with actual waveform extraction based on simulation or measurement. More discussion is planned for the next meeting. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING (Including New Agenda Items) Bob Ross reported on the status of the ibischk3 parser. Atul Agarwal plans to provide a release around mid December 2000 that includes BUG34 and BUG47. At the November 17, 2000 meeting we planned to do these last two bug fixes if they could be done quickly. We are cutting the bug fixes off at BUG47 for this release in order to get some important corrections distributed. Matthew Flora commented that he is still receiving IBIS models with problems that would be exposed by the newer version of ibischk3. These include negative ramp rates (and Michael Cohen stated zero ramp rates). Based on vacation schedules, we expect the ibischk3 parser to be reviewed and released in January 2001. The review and release process involves checking the fixes, generating executables (Matthew Flora for Windows, Syed Huq for Linux and Guy de Burgh for the other operating systems). - BUG51 - Error Message Needed for Missing [Submodel] (New Item) Michael Mirmak introduced BUG51. The ibischk3 parser correctly issues an Error when a referenced Submodel is not defined for most cases. However, BUG51 documents a failure where no Submodels are defined and no error is issued. BUG51 was classified as MODERATE, MEDIUM, OPEN, and planned to be fixed in a future release. - BUG52 - IBISCHK3 Hangs for [Add Submodel] Instead of [Submodel] (New Item) Michael Mirmak introduced BUG52. It is related to BUG51, but documents a situation where the keyword [Submodel] is incorrectly replaced by [Add Submodel]. In the reported test case, ibischk3 either hangs or crashes and does not complete the check. BUG52 was classified as SERIOUS, MEDIUM, OPEN, and planned to be fixed in a future release. - BUG49 - Warning Message for Unreferenced Models, Submodels Bob Ross commented that BUG49 was discussed at the November 17, 2000 meeting. Several points had been brought up. These related to whether warnings should be given for FPGAs where extra models might be added to the file, but not referenced. Another discussion related to differences between unreferenced submodels and models. Also models referenced by [Series Pin Mapping] needed to be included. Michael Mirmak had issued a revised BUG49 that addressed these comments. He also added that the revise BUG49 discussed issuing only one Warning message rather than multiple Warning messages for dangling Models, and Warnings for each dangling Submodel. This would limit the number of Warnings for FPGA files. As time was running out, Bob planned more discussion and final resolution at the January 5, 2001 meeting. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, January 5, 2001 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. BIRD65.1 is scheduled for a vote. Also a vote on a new IBIS Librarian will be conducted. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Open Position WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 angulo@hyperlynx.com Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================== From owner-ibis Tue Dec 12 16:37:31 2000 Received: from melete.ch.intel.com (melete.ch.intel.com [143.182.246.25]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBD0bUj15592 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:37:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from SMTP (fmsmsxvs02-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.202]) by melete.ch.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.33 2000/11/21 19:27:27 smothers Exp $) with SMTP id AAA29947 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 00:37:44 GMT Received: from fmsmsx29.FM.INTEL.COM ([132.233.48.29]) by 132.233.48.202 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 00:34:03 0000 (GMT) Received: by fmsmsx29.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:34:01 -0800 Message-ID: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE9987051550F8@FMSMSX34> From: "Muranyi, Arpad" To: "'ibis@vhdl.org'" Subject: BIRD 65.1 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:33:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C0649C.60911310" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C0649C.60911310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" **************************************************************************** ** **************************************************************************** ** BIRD ID#: 65.1 ISSUE TITLE: C_comp Refinements REQUESTER: Arpad Muranyi, Intel DATE SUBMITTED: 10-25-99, 12-12-2000 DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: Pending **************************************************************************** ** **************************************************************************** ** STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: Currently, the IBIS specification (v3.2) uses a single constant value for describing the total die capacitance as seen at the pad. This value is given by the subparameter C_comp under the [Model] keyword. The specification does not mention how this capacitance is distributed between the power and ground references, or how it should be connected to the circuit. **************************************************************************** ** STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: Four new subparameters shall be introduced in the IBIS specification under the [Model] keyword to provide means for a more detailed description for the die capacitance. These new subparameters, C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power, and C_comp_ground are associated to the corresponding voltage reference keywords, [Pullup Reference], [Pulldown Reference], [Power Clamp Reference], and [GND Clamp Reference], respectively. This mechanism allows the association of a specific capacitance between the I/O node and the four possible supply nodes without disturbing the submodel syntax. The syntax of these four new subparameters are identical to the existing C_comp subparameter. |=========================================================================== == | Keyword: [Model] | Required: Yes. | Description: Used to define a model, and its attributes. | Sub-Params: Model_type, Polarity, Enable, Vinl, Vinh, C_comp, |** C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power, and |** C_comp_ground Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref | Usage Rules: Each model type must begin with the keyword [Model]. The | model name must match the one that is listed under a [Pin], | [Model Selector] or [Series Pin Mapping] keyword and must not | contain more than 20 characters. A .ibs file must contain | enough [Model] keywords to cover all of the model names | specified under the [Pin], [Model Selector] and [Series Pin | Mapping] keywords, except for those model names that use | reserved words (POWER, GND and NC). | | Model_type must be one of the following: | | Input, Output, I/O, 3-state, Open_drain, I/O_open_drain, | Open_sink, I/O_open_sink, Open_source, I/O_open_source, | Input_ECL, Output_ECL, I/O_ECL, 3-state_ECL, Terminator, | Series, and Series_switch. | | Special usage rules apply to the following. Some definitions | are included for clarification: | | Input These model types must have Vinl and Vinh | I/O defined. If they are not defined, the | I/O_open_drain parser issues a warning and the default | I/O_open_sink values of Vinl = 0.8 V and Vinh = 2.0 V are | I/O_open_source assumed. | | Input_ECL These model types must have Vinl and Vinh | I/O_ECL defined. If they are not defined, the | parser issues a warning and the default | values of Vinl = -1.475 V and Vinh = | -1.165 V are assumed. | | Terminator This model type is an input-only model | that can have analog loading effects on the | circuit being simulated but has no digital | logic thresholds. Examples of Terminators | are: capacitors, termination diodes, and | pullup resistors. | | Output This model type indicates that an output | always sources and/or sinks current and | cannot be disabled. | | 3-state This model type indicates that an output | can be disabled, i.e. put into a high | impedance state. | | Open_sink These model types indicate that the output | Open_drain has an OPEN side (do not use the [Pullup] | keyword, or if it must be used, set I = | 0 mA for all voltages specified) and the | output SINKS current. Open_drain model | type is retained for backward | compatibility. | | Open_source This model type indicates that the output | has an OPEN side (do not use the [Pulldown] | keyword, or if it must be used, set I = | 0 mA for all voltages specified) and the | output SOURCES current. | | Input_ECL These model types specify that the model | Output_ECL represents an ECL type logic that follows | I/O_ECL different conventions for the [Pulldown] | 3-state_ECL keyword. | | Series This model type is for series models that | can be described by [R Series], [L Series], | [Rl Series], [C Series], [Lc Series], | [Rc Series], [Series Current] and [Series | MOSFET] keywords | | Series_switch This model type is for series switch | models that can be described by [On], | [Off], [R Series], [L Series], [Rl Series], | [C Series], [Lc Series], [Rc Series], | [Series Current] and [Series MOSFET] | keywords | |** The Model_type subparameter is required. The C_comp |** subparameter is only required if C_comp_pullup, |** C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power, and C_comp_ground are not |** present, or the C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, |** C_comp_power, and C_comp_ground subparameters are required |** if the C_comp subparameter is not present. | | The Polarity, Enable, Vinl, Vinh, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, and Vref |* subparameters are optional. C_comp* define the silicon die |* capacitance. Thse values should not include the capacitance |* of the package. C_comp* are allowed to use "NA" for the min | and max values only. The Polarity subparameter can be | defined as either Non-Inverting or Inverting, and the Enable | subparameter can be defined as either Active-High or | Active-Low. | | The Cref and Rref subparameters correspond to the test load | that the semiconductor vendor uses when specifying the | propagation delay and/or output switching time of the model. | The Vmeas subparameter is the reference voltage level that the | semiconductor vendor uses for the model. Include Cref, Rref, | Vref, and Vmeas information to facilitate board-level timing | simulation. The assumed connections for Cref, Rref, and Vref | are shown in the following diagram: | | _________ | | | | | |\ | Rref | |Driver| \|------o----/\/\/\----o Vref | | | /| | | | |/ | === Cref | |_________| | | | | GND | | Other Notes: A complete [Model] description normally contains the following | keywords: [Voltage Range], [Pullup], [Pulldown], [GND Clamp], | [POWER Clamp], and [Ramp]. A Terminator model uses one or | more of the [Rgnd], [Rpower], [Rac], and [Cac]. However, some | models may have only a subset of these keywords. For example, | an input structure normally only needs the [Voltage Range], | [GND Clamp], and possibly the [POWER Clamp] keywords. If one | or more of [Rgnd], [Rpower], [Rac], and [Cac] keywords are | used, then the Model_type must be Terminator. |--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- | Signals CLK1, CLK2,... | Optional signal list, if desired [Model] Clockbuffer Model_type I/O Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-High Vinl = 0.8V | input logic "low" DC voltage, if any Vinh = 2.0V | input logic "high" DC voltage, if any Vmeas = 1.5V | Reference voltage for timing measurements Cref = 50pF | Timing specification test load capacitance value Rref = 500 | Timing specification test load resistance value Vref = 0 | Timing specification test load voltage | variable typ min max C_comp 12.0pF 10.0pF 15.0pF | |=========================================================================== == | [Model] Clockbuffer Model_type I/O Vinl = 0.8V | input logic "low" DC voltage, if any Vinh = 2.0V | input logic "high" DC voltage, if any | | variable typ min max C_comp_pullup 3.0pF 2.5pF 3.5pF C_comp_pulldown 2.0pF 1.5pF 2.5pF C_comp_power 1.0pF 0.5pF 1.5pF C_comp_ground 1.0pF 0.5pF 1.5pF | **************************************************************************** ** ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: Problem statement The single (constant) C_comp value of the current IBIS specification (v3.2) does not provide enough information for the simulator to accurately simulate high speed signals and/or ground and supply noise. In order to simulate the signal current return path and/or supply rail noise (GND bounce and/or Vcc droop) accurately, a model needs to provide more detail on the distribution of the total die capacitance between the I/O pad, power and ground references. This BIRD attempts to provide the means for incorporating such information in a model. The existing C_comp subparameter does not specify how it should be connected between the I/O pad and the supply rails. Most naturally it will end up getting connected to the I/O node and ground. However, since it not only represents the capacitance of the pulldown device, but also the capacitance of the pullup device, one should split it between the I/O pin and ground, and the I/O pin and power rails. One can easily see that this configuration forms a series combination of two capacitances between power and ground. Simulations show a significant difference in the waveforms for the distributed or lumped capacitance when power and ground nodes of the die are connected through the package parasitics to the ideal power source(s). Possible solutions 1) Specify splitting factor coefficients 2) Use a new subparameter under each voltage reference keyword 3) Use a new subparameter under each I-V curve 4) Use four new subparameters under the [Model] keyword (as presented in this BIRD). **************************************************************************** ** ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: Changed the names for the four C_comp* parameters as requested in the 12-08-2000 IBIS Open Forum Teleconference meeting. Added the next paragraph. Transistors (consequently buffers) show different parasitic capacitance when turned on or off. Additional mechanisms need to be added to the IBIS specification to account for these variations. The voltage dependency of the die capacitance should also be addressed at some point. (Use typ., min., max, capacitance vs. voltage tables instead of single values)? **************************************************************************** ** ------_=_NextPart_000_01C0649C.60911310 Content-Type: text/plain; name="BIRD65_1.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="BIRD65_1.txt" ************************************************************************= ****** ************************************************************************= ****** BIRD ID#: 65.1 ISSUE TITLE: C_comp Refinements REQUESTER: Arpad Muranyi, Intel DATE SUBMITTED: 10-25-99, 12-12-2000 DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: Pending ************************************************************************= ****** ************************************************************************= ****** STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: Currently, the IBIS specification (v3.2) uses a single constant value = for describing the total die capacitance as seen at the pad. This value is = given by the subparameter C_comp under the [Model] keyword. The = specification does not mention how this capacitance is distributed between the power and = ground references, or how it should be connected to the circuit. ************************************************************************= ****** STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: Four new subparameters shall be introduced in the IBIS specification = under the [Model] keyword to provide means for a more detailed description = for the die capacitance. These new subparameters, C_comp_pullup, = C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power, and C_comp_ground are associated to the corresponding = voltage reference keywords, [Pullup Reference], [Pulldown Reference], [Power = Clamp Reference], and [GND Clamp Reference], respectively. This mechanism = allows the association of a specific capacitance between the I/O node and the = four possible supply nodes without disturbing the submodel syntax. The syntax of these four new subparameters are identical to the = existing C_comp subparameter. |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D | Keyword: [Model]=20 | Required: Yes. | Description: Used to define a model, and its attributes. | Sub-Params: Model_type, Polarity, Enable, Vinl, Vinh, C_comp, |** C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power, and |** C_comp_ground Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref | Usage Rules: Each model type must begin with the keyword [Model]. = The | model name must match the one that is listed under a = [Pin], | [Model Selector] or [Series Pin Mapping] keyword and = must not | contain more than 20 characters. A .ibs file must = contain | enough [Model] keywords to cover all of the model names | specified under the [Pin], [Model Selector] and [Series = Pin | Mapping] keywords, except for those model names that = use | reserved words (POWER, GND and NC). | | Model_type must be one of the following: | | Input, Output, I/O, 3-state, Open_drain, = I/O_open_drain, | Open_sink, I/O_open_sink, Open_source, I/O_open_source, | Input_ECL, Output_ECL, I/O_ECL, 3-state_ECL, = Terminator, | Series, and Series_switch. | | Special usage rules apply to the following. Some = definitions | are included for clarification: | | Input These model types must have Vinl and = Vinh | I/O defined. If they are not defined, = the | I/O_open_drain parser issues a warning and the = default | I/O_open_sink values of Vinl =3D 0.8 V and Vinh = =3D 2.0 V are | I/O_open_source assumed. | | Input_ECL These model types must have Vinl and = Vinh | I/O_ECL defined. If they are not defined, = the | parser issues a warning and the = default | values of Vinl =3D -1.475 V and Vinh = =3D | -1.165 V are assumed. | | Terminator This model type is an input-only = model | that can have analog loading effects = on the | circuit being simulated but has no = digital | logic thresholds. Examples of = Terminators | are: capacitors, termination diodes, = and | pullup resistors. | | Output This model type indicates that an = output | always sources and/or sinks current = and | cannot be disabled. | | 3-state This model type indicates that an = output | can be disabled, i.e. put into a = high | impedance state. | | Open_sink These model types indicate that the = output | Open_drain has an OPEN side (do not use the = [Pullup] | keyword, or if it must be used, set = I =3D | 0 mA for all voltages specified) and = the | output SINKS current. Open_drain = model | type is retained for backward | compatibility. | | Open_source This model type indicates that the = output | has an OPEN side (do not use the = [Pulldown] | keyword, or if it must be used, set = I =3D | 0 mA for all voltages specified) and = the | output SOURCES current. | | Input_ECL These model types specify that the = model | Output_ECL represents an ECL type logic that = follows | I/O_ECL different conventions for the = [Pulldown] | 3-state_ECL keyword. | | Series This model type is for series models = that | can be described by [R Series], [L = Series], | [Rl Series], [C Series], [Lc = Series], | [Rc Series], [Series Current] and = [Series | MOSFET] keywords | =20 | Series_switch This model type is for series switch | models that can be described by = [On], | [Off], [R Series], [L Series], [Rl = Series], =20 | [C Series], [Lc Series], [Rc = Series], | [Series Current] and [Series MOSFET] | keywords | |** The Model_type subparameter is required. The C_comp |** subparameter is only required if C_comp_pullup, |** C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power, and C_comp_ground are = not |** present, or the C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, |** C_comp_power, and C_comp_ground subparameters are = required |** if the C_comp subparameter is not present. | | The Polarity, Enable, Vinl, Vinh, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, = and Vref |* subparameters are optional. C_comp* define the silicon = die |* capacitance. Thse values should not include the = capacitance |* of the package. C_comp* are allowed to use "NA" for = the min | and max values only. The Polarity subparameter can be | defined as either Non-Inverting or Inverting, and the = Enable | subparameter can be defined as either Active-High or | Active-Low. | | The Cref and Rref subparameters correspond to the test = load | that the semiconductor vendor uses when specifying the | propagation delay and/or output switching time of the = model. | The Vmeas subparameter is the reference voltage level = that the | semiconductor vendor uses for the model. Include Cref, = Rref, | Vref, and Vmeas information to facilitate board-level = timing | simulation. The assumed connections for Cref, Rref, = and Vref | are shown in the following diagram: | | _________ | | | | | |\ | Rref | |Driver| \|------o----/\/\/\----o Vref | | | /| | | | |/ | =3D=3D=3D Cref | |_________| | | | | GND | | Other Notes: A complete [Model] description normally contains the = following | keywords: [Voltage Range], [Pullup], [Pulldown], [GND = Clamp], | [POWER Clamp], and [Ramp]. A Terminator model uses one = or | more of the [Rgnd], [Rpower], [Rac], and [Cac]. = However, some | models may have only a subset of these keywords. For = example, | an input structure normally only needs the [Voltage = Range], | [GND Clamp], and possibly the [POWER Clamp] keywords. = If one | or more of [Rgnd], [Rpower], [Rac], and [Cac] keywords = are | used, then the Model_type must be Terminator. |-----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ | Signals CLK1, CLK2,... | Optional signal list, if = desired [Model] Clockbuffer Model_type I/O Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-High Vinl =3D 0.8V | input logic "low" DC = voltage, if any Vinh =3D 2.0V | input logic "high" DC = voltage, if any Vmeas =3D 1.5V | Reference voltage for timing measurements Cref =3D 50pF | Timing specification test load = capacitance value Rref =3D 500 | Timing specification test load resistance = value Vref =3D 0 | Timing specification test load voltage | variable typ min max C_comp 12.0pF 10.0pF 15.0pF | |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D | [Model] Clockbuffer Model_type I/O Vinl =3D 0.8V | input logic "low" DC = voltage, if any Vinh =3D 2.0V | input logic "high" DC = voltage, if any | | variable typ min max C_comp_pullup 3.0pF 2.5pF 3.5pF C_comp_pulldown 2.0pF 1.5pF 2.5pF C_comp_power 1.0pF 0.5pF 1.5pF C_comp_ground 1.0pF 0.5pF 1.5pF | ************************************************************************= ****** ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: Problem statement The single (constant) C_comp value of the current IBIS specification = (v3.2) does not provide enough information for the simulator to accurately = simulate high speed signals and/or ground and supply noise. In order to simulate the signal current return path and/or supply rail = noise (GND bounce and/or Vcc droop) accurately, a model needs to provide more detail on the distribution of the total die capacitance between the I/O = pad, power and ground references. This BIRD attempts to provide the means = for incorporating such information in a model. The existing C_comp subparameter does not specify how it should be = connected between the I/O pad and the supply rails. Most naturally it will end = up getting connected to the I/O node and ground. However, since it not = only represents the capacitance of the pulldown device, but also the = capacitance of the pullup device, one should split it between the I/O pin and ground, = and the I/O pin and power rails. One can easily see that this configuration = forms a series combination of two capacitances between power and ground. = Simulations show a significant difference in the waveforms for the distributed or = lumped capacitance when power and ground nodes of the die are connected = through the package parasitics to the ideal power source(s). Possible solutions 1) Specify splitting factor coefficients 2) Use a new subparameter under each voltage reference keyword 3) Use a new subparameter under each I-V curve 4) Use four new subparameters under the [Model] keyword (as presented = in this BIRD). ************************************************************************= ****** ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: Changed the names for the four C_comp* parameters as requested in the=20 12-08-2000 IBIS Open Forum Teleconference meeting. Added the next=20 paragraph. Transistors (consequently buffers) show different parasitic capacitance = when turned on or off. Additional mechanizms need to be added to the IBIS=20 specification to account for these variations. The voltage dependency of the die capacitance should also be addressed = at some point. (Use typ., min., max, capacitance vs. voltage tables instead of = single values)? ************************************************************************= ****** ------_=_NextPart_000_01C0649C.60911310-- From owner-ibis Mon Dec 18 16:39:30 2000 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBJ0dTj12151 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) id QAA16048 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:35:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmh1.nsc.com(139.187.179.130) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (4.1) id xmag15540; Mon, 18 Dec 00 16:35:05 -0800 Received: from galaxy.nsc.com by scmh1.nsc.com with ESMTP for ibis@eda.org; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:35:04 -0800 Received: from xi.nsc.com (xi.nsc.com [139.187.209.24]) by galaxy.nsc.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16778 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from schwartz@localhost) by xi.nsc.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id QAA08545 for ibis@eda.org; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:35:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:35:00 -0800 (PST) From: Milt Schwartz x3261 Message-Id: <200012190035.QAA08545@xi.nsc.com> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: 2nd Send Agenda, DesignCon 2k1 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------- DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT CALL FOR PARTICIPATION, PRESENTATIONS ---------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: 8:00 PM - 5:00 PM, Monday, January 29, 2001 Location: Santa Clara Convention Center Santa Clara, CA Content: IBIS Future Requirements is the main topic of this meeting These include an exchange of ideas on IBIS accuracy, connectors, and new requirements under discussion. Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: DesignCon 2001 & National Semiconductor Corporation IBIS Summit Signup: Milt Schwartz schwartz@galaxy.nsc.com D E S I G N C O N 2 0 0 0 M E E T I N G S Time/Date: Monday - Thursday, January 29 - February 1, 2001 Exhibition: Tuesday - Wednesday, 12:30 PM - 6:30 PM, January 30-31, 2001 IBIS Booth: #861, Exhibition Hall - IBIS Information URL DesignCon2001: http://www.designcon.com/ CALL FOR IBIS SUMMIT PRESENTATIONS We already have several presentations and discussion topics planned. However, we are also seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Format of Presentation: Overhead Projections Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. If you cannot provide an electronic format, then plan to bring 50 copies for distribution at the meeting. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Milt Schwartz schwartz@galaxy.nsc.com Deadline: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 for receiving presentations for copying. AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, refreshments, and a free buffet luncheon for participants. In addition, we will have an opportunity for Ad Hoc presentations and extended discussions. Currently we have: "Spice 2 IBIS Accuracy Report", Scott McMorrow, Siqual Milt Schwartz Interface Applications National Semiconductor 2900 Semiconductor Dr. Mail Stop A2595 Santa Clara, CA 95052 email: schwartz@galaxy.nsc.com Phone: 408 721 3261 Fax : 408 721 4785 From owner-ibis Tue Dec 19 07:02:24 2000 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com (e2.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.102]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBJF2Lj15629; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:02:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (northrelay02.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.22]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA299010; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:58:00 -0500 Received: from RCHASA28.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml104.rchland.ibm.com [9.5.39.61]) by northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id JAA27712; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:56:38 -0500 Importance: Normal Subject: example I/O buffer accuracy report To: si-list@silab.eng.sun.com Cc: ibis@vhdl.org, ibis-users@vhdl.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.3 (Intl) 21 March 2000 Message-ID: From: "Gregory R Edlund" Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:00:21 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml104/27/M/IBM(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 12/19/2000 09:00:22 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My colleagues and I have applied the procedures defined in the "I/O Buffer Accuracy Handbook" to a real life part: IDT's ALVCH16831 buffer. We compared IBIS, SPICE, and lab measurements. The results look really good. Of course, we had to use a coupled package model and lossy transmission lines to make them look this good! IDT was very cooperative with us; I was most impressed by their willingness to work together. They have an impressive array of SPICE and IBIS model data on their web site, and I would encourage you to have a look. Incidentally, this particular I/O buffer circuit is widely used in IDT's ALVCH family, so the test results cover a lot of ground. Why don't you grab a copy of this PDF file and email it to your favorite semiconductor vendor? Ask them if they can provide you this kind of data for their parts! I'll bet a few of them are doing this sort of thing already, just in a different format. We've made a lot of progress in the model arena over the past few years, but we still have a lot of catching up to do. http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/accuracy/ The file name is report.pdf. Thanks to the IBIS Open Forum for hosting the web site. Thanks to all of you out there who contributed to this work. It was very much a cooperative effort. Cheers. Greg Edlund Advisory Engineer Electrical Packaging IBM Server Technology Development 3605 Hwy. 52 N, Dept. HDC Rochester, MN 55901 gedlund@us.ibm.com From owner-ibis Tue Dec 19 07:54:38 2000 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com (e2.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.102]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBJFsZj15904 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:54:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (northrelay02.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.22]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA175440 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:50:15 -0500 Received: from RCHASA28.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml104.rchland.ibm.com [9.5.39.61]) by northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id KAA115110 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:48:53 -0500 Importance: Normal Subject: BIRD 69: Golden Waveforms To: ibis@eda.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.3 (Intl) 21 March 2000 Message-ID: From: "Gregory R Edlund" Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:52:35 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml104/27/M/IBM(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 12/19/2000 09:52:36 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=862569BA00529E0C8f9e8a93df938690918c862569BA00529E0C" Content-Disposition: inline --0__=862569BA00529E0C8f9e8a93df938690918c862569BA00529E0C Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Fellow IBIS people, Here's a new BIRD related to - you guessed it - accuracy. Its purpose is to facilitate the inclusion of "Golden Waveforms" into an IBIS datasheet. I'm sure a lot of you are on vacation this week, but Bob thought it was a good idea to send it out anyhow. Happy holidays to you all. (See attached file: bird_69.txt) Greg Edlund Advisory Engineer Electrical Packaging IBM Server Technology Development 3605 Hwy. 52 N, Dept. 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by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28254; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:39:20 -0500 Received: from RCHASA28.RCHLAND.IBM.COM (d27ml104.rchland.ibm.com [9.5.39.61]) by northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id JAA178414; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:37:36 -0500 Importance: Normal Subject: waveform correlation calculator To: ibis-users@vhdl.org, ibis@vhdl.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.3 (Intl) 21 March 2000 Message-ID: From: "Gregory R Edlund" Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:41:18 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml104/27/M/IBM(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 12/19/2000 08:41:19 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have written a C program that is useful for overlaying two waveforms and quantifying the differences between them. The program reads two ASCII x-y data files, slides the waveforms along the time axis until they overlay, then examines the absolute and relative differences between each data point. This is pretty useful when doing I/O buffer model development work or any simulation vs. lab correlation. You can get a copy of the C code along with a user guide on the IBIS web site. http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/accuracy/ The files are ack.zip and ack.tar.Z. Instructions for compiling are in the readme.txt file. Don't worry about the disclaimer; I got approval from IBM's lawyers to distribute this source code as freeware. Hack to your heart's content. I tested the code when I wrote the I/O buffer accuracy report on the same web site. It worked fine for me, but that's not to say you won't find some pathological cases that I haven't stumbled upon yet. If you do, please let me know so I can improve the algorithm. Merry Christmas. Greg Edlund Advisory Engineer Electrical Packaging IBM Server Technology Development 3605 Hwy. 52 N, Dept. HDC Rochester, MN 55901 gedlund@us.ibm.com From owner-ibis Tue Dec 19 10:20:31 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBJIKTj16680 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:20:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from svr-orw-exc-01.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id KAA23875; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:16:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by svr-orw-exc-01.wv.mentorg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:16:53 -0800 Message-ID: <0B30C465AF9FD311BB6B00508B449DEE0699513B@svr-orw-exc-01.wv.mentorg.com> From: "Beal, Weston" To: ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: BIRD 69: Golden Waveforms Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:16:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Greg, This looks like a pretty good idea. I have a question and a suggestion. Doesn't the golden waveform apply to a driver model like a rising or falling waveform? If so, I think the "driver_model" parameter is redundant. I would suggest a more definitive name for Rp* parameters. Rp1 could be Rpower and Rp2 could be Rgnd to be consistent with other IBIS keywords. This would simplify the job of the IBIS author. Regards, Weston -----Original Message----- From: Gregory R Edlund [mailto:gedlund@us.ibm.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 7:53 AM To: ibis@eda.org Subject: BIRD 69: Golden Waveforms Fellow IBIS people, Here's a new BIRD related to - you guessed it - accuracy. Its purpose is to facilitate the inclusion of "Golden Waveforms" into an IBIS datasheet. I'm sure a lot of you are on vacation this week, but Bob thought it was a good idea to send it out anyhow. Happy holidays to you all. (See attached file: bird_69.txt) Greg Edlund Advisory Engineer Electrical Packaging IBM Server Technology Development 3605 Hwy. 52 N, Dept. HDC Rochester, MN 55901 gedlund@us.ibm.com From owner-ibis Wed Dec 20 08:51:32 2000 Received: from topaz.3com.com (topaz.3com.com [192.156.136.158]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBKGpTj23689 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:51:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from opal.3com.com (opal.3com.com [139.87.50.117]) by topaz.3com.com (Switch-2.0.1/Switch-2.0.1) with ESMTP id eBKGkxe10276 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:46:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from hqoutbound.ops.3com.com (hqoutbound.OPS.3Com.COM [139.87.48.104]) by opal.3com.com (Switch-2.0.1/Switch-2.0.1) with SMTP id eBKGls317542 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:47:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by hqoutbound.ops.3com.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 882569BB.005C6F3C ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:49:37 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: 3COM From: Roy_Leventhal@3com.com To: ibis@eda.org Message-ID: <882569BB.005C6CE4.00@hqoutbound.ops.3com.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:51:18 -0600 Subject: [Model] syntax requirement? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Dear IBIS Gurus, Under the IBIS spec is it explicit that any [Model] referenced in a [Pin] list must appear after that reference in the IBIS file? If yes, shouldn't we expect an error or warning from ibischk3? Best Regards, Roy From owner-ibis Wed Dec 20 09:06:58 2000 Received: from dermis.amis.com (dermis.amis.com [207.141.5.253]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id eBKH6rj23907 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:06:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from notes1.amis.com by dermis.amis.com via smtpd (for server.eda.ORG [171.64.101.101]) with SMTP; 20 Dec 2000 17:03:23 UT X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Subject: A question about IBIS checker To: ibis@eda.org From: wzheng@amis.com Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:04:23 -0700 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Notes1/AMI(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 12/20/2000 10:04:29 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Sir/Madam: My name is William Zheng, doing IBIS models for American Microsystems, Inc. I have a question here about IBIS parser. If a IBIS model is checked correctly by Visual IBIS Editor V2.0, it also should pass under ibischk3 - right or not? Thank you very much for your helps. Happy Holidays! Best regards, William Zheng From owner-ibis Wed Dec 20 09:11:49 2000 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBKHBlj23953 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:11:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from fmsmsx28.fm.intel.com (fmsmsx28.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.28]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.33 2000/11/21 19:27:27 smothers Exp $) with ESMTP id RAA07400; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:09:10 GMT Received: by fmsmsx28.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:07:42 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Mirmak, Michael" To: "'Roy_Leventhal@3com.com'" , "'ibis@eda.org'" Subject: RE: [Model] syntax requirement? Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:07:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Roy, I believe this is already "trapped" by ibischk3. If you reference a [Model] in a [Pin] list and that [Model] does not appear below it, you should see an error resembling the following (under v3.2.5): ERROR - Component 'xxx': Model 'yyy' for Pin 'z' not defined. Is there a specific example or situation that you have in mind? If so, I'm sure that the list would love to see it! - Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp. -----Original Message----- From: Roy_Leventhal@3com.com [mailto:Roy_Leventhal@3com.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:51 AM To: ibis@eda.org Subject: [Model] syntax requirement? Dear IBIS Gurus, Under the IBIS spec is it explicit that any [Model] referenced in a [Pin] list must appear after that reference in the IBIS file? If yes, shouldn't we expect an error or warning from ibischk3? Best Regards, Roy From owner-ibis Fri Dec 29 11:46:31 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBTJkQj26041 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from svr-orw-exc-02.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id LAA08039; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:42:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com (bob.wv.mentorg.com [147.34.83.63]) by svr-orw-exc-02.wv.mentorg.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id ZVL0XSQY; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:42:46 -0800 Sender: bobr@relay1.mentorg.com Message-ID: <3A4CE935.A93FE56E@mentor.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:42:45 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS Meeting Agenda - 1/5/01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 1/5/01 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode (916) 356-9200 3-454694 8973669 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Ross - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Ross - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Ross/Fleming - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Ross - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update LaBonte, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) Ross/Fleming - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) Ross - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) Perrin/Ross - JEDEC JC-16 Modeling and Testing Sessions Librarian Selection Ross DesignCon 2001 IBIS Summit Meeting Ross Date 2001 IBIS Summit Meeting Ross IBIS Model Review Committee Angulo New Administrative Issues All 8:45 Technical Discussion (some topics may be deferred) Connector Proposal Review Panella IBIS Futures Group Report (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Peters BIRD65 - C_comp Refinements (Vote) Muranyi BIRD68 - Clarify that Rising and Falling Waveform Lorang Tables Should be Correlated BIRD69 - Golden Waveforms Edlund ibischk3 Bug Tracking Ross - BUG49 Warning Message for Unreferenced Models, Ross/Mirmak Submodels - resolution New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Ross 9:55 Sign Off From owner-ibis Fri Dec 29 14:21:26 2000 Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.134]) by server.eda.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBTMLNj26259 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:21:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rosebud.al.dynip.com (dialup-209.244.108.94.Seattle1.Level3.net [209.244.108.94]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03711; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from hobbes ([192.168.22.7]) by rosebud.al.dynip.com (8.10.2/8.10.2/SuSE Linux 8.10.0-0.3) with SMTP id eBTMIwU05413; Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:18:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: rosebud.al.dynip.com: Host [192.168.22.7] claimed to be hobbes From: Al Davis To: "Muranyi, Arpad" , "'ibis@vhdl.org'" Subject: Re: BIRD 65.1 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:18:47 -0800 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.61] Content-Type: text/plain References: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE9987051550F8@FMSMSX34> In-Reply-To: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE9987051550F8@FMSMSX34> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00122914184700.02424@hobbes> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have some questions and reservations on this. To summarize, although I agree that such a thing is needed, this proposal does not solve the problem adequately and has the potential for introducing problems that have not been considered. Also, the problem it intends to solve becomes a non-issue once IBIS-X is completed. The first question is how difficult it is to implement. Ordinarily, I would say that it is necessary to prove it with a prototype. Such a prototype can be done trivially in IBIS-X, so on the surface it seems that implementation is trivial. Still, testing is a problem. How do you measure it? How do you validate that the measured data actually relates to reality? Before approval of this bird, I would like to see a description of a procedure for measuring it, and a procedure for validating that the measured data is actually correct and useful. These procedures should be tried on a prototype. The purpose is stated to be information on how the capacitance is distributed over the 5 ground/power nodes. Another way to look at it is how the current in the capacitance is distributed. OK. Now back up. We have pullup/pulldown and the clamps for the DC conditions. The proposed c_comp's are the dynamic parts. Existing models usually do not model the split of these correctly. The pullup and power clamp are sort of in parallel, so the measurement is usually to measure the clamps in input or tri-state mode, and the pullup/pulldown in driving mode, by measuring a total and subtracting off the clamps. This often leads to the pullup/pulldown showing strange bahavior when it is masked by the clamps, because the subtraction magnifies the errors. In any case, the current path is not necessarily as intended. The standard provides the mechanism to properly model the current paths, but most models do not. They arbitrarily mix them. Given that most models do not get the DC split correct, what justifies even trying for the dynamic part? The next issue is that this capacitance is strongly nonlinear. Measuring it in the various states produces very different results. Even then, there is no hint at what they do during the transition, other than that the wave tables include the effect. The wave tables do not provide information on how that current is distributed to the 5 power/ground nodes, and possibly also to other connection nodes including input and enable. The nonlinear nature of this capacitance is significant in the development of the simulator algorithms. Some actual models will only work accurately when the capacitance is treated as nonlinear. Part of this capacitance is already in the standard as transit time. The [TT*] parameters are essentially equivalent to the C_comp_power and C_comp_ground parts, complete with the nonlinear component. Thus, part of what this bird proposes is already available. (OK -- the bird asks for the linear part.) Do you have any examples of actual models that use these parameters? with test data showing the quality of correlation to the real device? How many simulators support it fully? It has been in the standard for a long time. Considering the number of unanswered questions, and that this functionality and much more will be available in IBIS-X, I think it is best not to rush into this. So, Arpad, you should prototype this in IBIS-X, and also prototype a measurement system for it in IBIS-X. This will validate both this bird and IBIS-X. The rest of us should wait for the answer. Note to readers not familiar with IBIS-X: This is a proposed future IBIS based on a macro language. It is fully backward compatible with IBIS as we know it, and provides the capability to add extensions like this one easily. Arpad and I are both on the sub-committee that is working on it. A prototype implementation of IBIS-X is being built, and a partial one (incomplete work in progress) is available for review to the committee and to those interested.