From owner-ibis Fri Aug 1 08:59:08 1997 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA06898 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id IAA19725 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:56:58 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma019093; Fri, 1 Aug 97 08:56:28 -0700 Received: from lightning.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA25555 for ibis@vhdl.org; Fri, 1 Aug 97 08:57:24 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14324; Fri, 1 Aug 97 08:57:51 PDT Date: Fri, 1 Aug 97 08:57:51 PDT From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9708011557.AA14324@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: IBIS Teleconference Agenda - Aug8th'97 Cc: huq@rockie.nsc.com IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 8/8/97 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode (916) 356-9200 3-125343 4891173 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Ross - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Ross - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Rusher - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Peters - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Powell, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:25 Administrative and Project Discussions International Progress Rusher/Ross - 93/46/NP (IBIS Version 2.1) - 93/60/NP (IBIS Models and EMC Simulation) - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) Editing Committee Ross/Peters Version 3.1 Parser Ross Cookbook Peters New Administrative Issues All 8:50 Technical Discussion BIRD42.3 Modeling Current Waveforms Kumar/Ross BIRD44 Interpretation of Min/Max/Weak/Strong Data Ross Switched Terminators Muranyi New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Ross 9:55 Sign Off From owner-ibis Fri Aug 1 10:23:44 1997 Received: from relay5.UU.NET (relay5.UU.NET [192.48.96.15]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA08184 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:23:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp2.UU.NET by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: uucp2.UU.NET [192.48.96.40]) id QQdasz19097; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qdt.UUCP by uucp2.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:22:29 -0400 Received: from hal.UUCP by qdt.viewlogic.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14358; Fri, 1 Aug 97 10:23:16 PDT Received: from awacs by qdt.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13444; Fri, 1 Aug 97 10:27:02 PDT Sender: crokusek@qdt.com Message-Id: <33E21C64.284797A9@qdt.com> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 10:27:00 -0700 From: Chris Rokusek Organization: Quad Design Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: 3.0 Files Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Two quick questions: 1) I would like to get an idea of when V3.0 will be supported. I have a number of customers interested in the features of V3.0 but the parser is not available. Is it true that we haven't found a parser software developer yet? (A customer actually sent in a file with 3.0 features in it today). 2) Is V3.0 formally an "ANSI" spec just as V2.1 is or has it only been approved for release to EIA (I don't know if my abbreviations are correct)? If no, is there a timeline or urgency to do so? Best Regards, -Chris Rokusek Viewlogic From owner-ibis Fri Aug 1 11:32:27 1997 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA09218 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id LAA27417; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:30:00 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma027031; Fri, 1 Aug 97 11:29:39 -0700 Received: from lightning.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA11720 for ibis@vhdl.org; Fri, 1 Aug 97 11:30:32 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18079; Fri, 1 Aug 97 11:30:53 PDT Date: Fri, 1 Aug 97 11:30:53 PDT From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9708011830.AA18079@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org, crokusek@qdt.com Subject: Re: 3.0 Files Chris, We are in the process of finding a parser developer. We have received information from various interested parties. On Aug8th, during our scheduled teleconference, parser development plans will be addressed. v3.0 has been ratified by the forum. We will have to make some editorial changes before submitting it as 'official' version to ANSI. All these work will take place within the next couple of months. We will work towards getting this out soon. At the same time, we need to have the v3.0 parser out as well. Stay tuned. Regards, Syed. Vice-Chair ANSI/EIA-656 National Semiconductor Corp. > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Fri Aug 1 10:45:10 1997 > Sender: crokusek@qdt.com > Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 10:27:00 -0700 > From: Chris Rokusek > Organization: Quad Design Technology > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) > To: ibis@vhdl.org > Subject: 3.0 Files > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=us-ascii> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi All, > > Two quick questions: > > 1) I would like to get an idea of when V3.0 will be supported. I have a > number of customers interested in the features of V3.0 but the parser is > not available. Is it true that we haven't found a parser software > developer yet? (A customer actually sent in a file with 3.0 features in > it today). > > 2) Is V3.0 formally an "ANSI" spec just as V2.1 is or has it only been > approved for release to EIA (I don't know if my abbreviations are > correct)? If no, is there a timeline or urgency to do so? > > Best Regards, > > -Chris Rokusek > Viewlogic > From owner-ibis Tue Aug 5 01:54:48 1997 Received: from galileo21.galileo.co.il (galileo21.galileo.co.il [192.116.246.22]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id BAA26342 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 01:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pc13 (pc13.galileo.co.il [192.116.246.249]) by galileo.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA02999 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:51:08 +0300 (GMT-3) Message-Id: <199708050851.LAA02999@galileo.co.il> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Eitan Medina" Organization: Galileo Technology Ltd. To: ibis@vhdl.org Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:51:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Package L,C values Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Hi, The information I have from the packaging vendor contains: self-inductance mutual inductance bulk-capacitance mutual capacitance Where the "mutual" is to adjacent leads. How do I map this to the L and C values in the package section of the IBIS model ? Should I add them ? Thanks, Eitan Eitan Medina Email: eitan@galileo.co.il Galileo Technology Ltd. 15 Geron st. P.O.Box 2786 Yehud 56217 ISRAEL Tel: +972-3-6320220 Fax: +972-3-6320221 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* * check out our new web site: http://www.GalileoT.com * *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-ibis Tue Aug 5 10:22:23 1997 Received: from kaw.com ([206.155.177.89]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA04229 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by kaw.com; id AA27887; Tue, 5 Aug 97 13:22:50 EDT Received: from audi.kaw.com(192.168.200.85) by explorer via smap (V3.1) id xma027885; Tue, 5 Aug 97 13:22:44 -0400 Received: from prowler.kaw.com (prowler [192.168.200.97]) by kaw.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA10094 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 13:28:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 13:28:06 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Aleksandrowicz Message-Id: <199612101828.NAA10094@kaw.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Analog pin definitions Hi, I am working on a power supply IC which has some digital pins. Though I have finished modeling and mapping the digital pins, I am not sure about the analog pins, which are not PWR or GND. The analog pins will not be simulated in a PCB simulation tool. Yet, I would like to know if there is any convention about assigning models for analog pins. I have assigned an NC model so far. Any suggestions? Dan Aleksandrowicz Engineering Solutions KAW/USA From owner-ibis Fri Aug 8 10:32:52 1997 Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA13205 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:32:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibm-customer (ppp-206-171-248-29.vntrcs.pacbell.net [206.171.248.29]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.6/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id KAA14694; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33EB5A44.4B17@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:41:24 -0700 From: Jon Powell Reply-To: jonp@pacbell.net Organization: Viewlogic Consulting Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBWG (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@vhdl.org CC: jonp@qdt.com Subject: IBIS 3.0 and legal questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I sent this note out last week but evidently it didn't get out over the reflector. I hoped to at least spark some controversy. This is my feelings on IBIS 3.0 and releasing models in this format. The copyright for the name IBIS is owned by EIA. Until 3.0 is approved by that body, IBIS 3.0 does not exist. If anyone publishes models claiming to be IBIS 3.0 then they are in violation of that copyright and EIA will probably be forced to take action. Besides the legal implications, anyone publishing IBIS 3.0 models before the official approval is almost certainly to be publishing models which will NOT be correct. We had to change things to do 2.1 and we will probably have to change things for 3.0. I will certainly not be putting any "IBIS OFFICIAL 3.0" models into any of the IBIS data areas until this specification is approved. I feel very strongly about this. I do not want what happened to EDIF to happen to IBIS. If you recal, EDIF (the earlier versions) was almost unusable because everyone had their own dialect of the "standard" and it was virtually impossible to support every dialect. At the same time, everyone claim to support EDIF. Perhaps we need some PRELIMINARY or EXPERIMENTAL designation for these new models but we should NOT call them IBIS 3.0. comments, of course, are solicited. (but don't correct my spelling). Jon Powell Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Consulting Services. IBIS Librarian From owner-ibis Fri Aug 8 12:34:19 1997 Received: from fw.icx.com (root@fw.icx.com [205.238.6.33]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA14961 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by fw.icx.com (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #4) id ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by chane.icx.com (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #5) id ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bob.icx.com via send-mail with stdio id for bob; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:31:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #7 built 1997-Jun-4) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:31:28 -0700 (PDT) From: bob@icx.com ( Bob Ross) To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Re: IBIS 3.0 and legal questions Cc: jonp@qdt.com Jon and IBIS Committee: Thank you for raising a concern. We actually discussed some aspects of it in the IBIS Open Forum meeting. I do not agree with portions of your position. The only official IBIS Standard remains ANSI/EIA-656 of the IBIS Version 2.1 level which is copyrighted by EIA. In compliance with the long standing purposes of IBIS, EIA does not copyright or approve the models themselves which are presented using the IBIS "template". The model provider may optionally copyright the IBIS model using the [Copyright] keyword, NOT EIA. Version 3.0 has been officially approved by the EIA/IBIS Open Forum - an offical EIA committee. So it will stand as a "legally" APPROVED version of the IBIS template. As indicated in the Statement of Intent section, IBIS Version 3.0 supports backward compatibility to all prior versions starting with Version 1.0. We intend to do editorial revisions to IBIS Version 3.0 in conjunction with developing the IBIS Version 3.0 parser to put forth an IBIS Version 3.1 release. Version 3.1 will most likely be forwarded for formal EIA ratification. Only after ratification occurs will a new level of IBIS OFFICIALLY be STANDARDIZED (along with or replacing ANSI/EIA-656.) In realilty, this process may take 6 months to a year (or more) based on the history of IBIS Version 2.0 (June 1994) to formal ANSI/EIA-656 evolution (Dec. 1995). In compliance with "Committment to Backward Compatibility", Version 3.1 will support the features of Version 3.0. The functionality and syntax of Version 3.0 is official. So I disagree with the first comment. People may issue IBIS Version 3.0 formatted data in compliance (as best as they can) with the textual content of the Version 3.0 document. It will be a while before a parser will be developed to check the syntax of the new items. I support your second comment that there be strong messages (disclaimers, text, etc.) indicating that OFFICIAL VERSION 3.0 compliance cannot be VALIDATED. - along with the usual disclaimers regarding no responsibility for the consequences of using the model (or the data contained within it). I see no legal restriction in using the IBIS Version 3.0 template. The purpose of issuing the template is to generate usage! Bob Ross Interconnectix > Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:41:24 -0700 > From: Jon Powell > To: ibis@vhdl.org > CC: jonp@qdt.com > Subject: IBIS 3.0 and legal questions > Hello All, > I sent this note out last week but evidently it didn't get out over the > reflector. I hoped to at least spark some controversy. > This is my feelings on IBIS 3.0 and releasing models in this format. > The copyright for the name IBIS is owned by EIA. Until 3.0 is approved > by that body, IBIS 3.0 does not exist. If anyone publishes models > claiming to be IBIS 3.0 then they are in violation of that copyright and > EIA will probably be forced to take action. > Besides the legal implications, anyone publishing IBIS 3.0 models before > the official approval is almost certainly to be publishing models which > will NOT be correct. We had to change things to do 2.1 and we will > probably have to change things for 3.0. I will certainly not be putting > any "IBIS OFFICIAL 3.0" models into any of the IBIS data areas until > this specification is approved. I feel very strongly about this. I do > not want what happened to EDIF to happen to IBIS. If you recal, EDIF > (the earlier versions) was almost unusable because everyone had their > own dialect of the "standard" and it was virtually impossible to support > every dialect. At the same time, everyone claim to support EDIF. > Perhaps we need some PRELIMINARY or EXPERIMENTAL designation for these > new models but we should NOT call them IBIS 3.0. > comments, of course, are solicited. > (but don't correct my spelling). > Jon Powell > Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Consulting Services. > IBIS Librarian From owner-ibis Fri Aug 8 13:55:39 1997 Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA16116 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips.intel.com (ichips.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ormail.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA05724 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mh-relay by ichips.intel.com (8.7.4/jIII) id NAA26287; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708082054.NAA26287@ichips.intel.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: IBIS 3.0 and legal questions Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 13:54:24 -0700 From: Stephen Peters Hello All: I concur with Jon, at least as far as vendors publishing model which are labled IBIS 3.0. Specifically, the IBIS forum should strongly discourage model vendors from publishing .ibs files with "3.0" as the parameter to the [IBIS Ver] keyword, at least until the spec has gone thru the ballot process (and ideally until the parser is developed). My fear is the same as Jon's -- a model with 3.0 syntax will almost certainly NOT be a correct IBIS 3.0 model. If someone wants to publish a model with 3.0 features, then I would suggest that they either leave the [IBIS Ver] blank, or put in something like PRELIMINARY or EXPERIMENTAL, or give the file something other than an .ibs extension. Comments, or course, are welcome, and (if you absolutly, positivly must) you can correct my spelling :) Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. >on Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:41:24 Jon Powell wrote: Hello All, I sent this note out last week but evidently it didn't get out over the reflector. I hoped to at least spark some controversy. This is my feelings on IBIS 3.0 and releasing models in this format. The copyright for the name IBIS is owned by EIA. Until 3.0 is approved by that body, IBIS 3.0 does not exist. If anyone publishes models claiming to be IBIS 3.0 then they are in violation of that copyright and EIA will probably be forced to take action. Besides the legal implications, anyone publishing IBIS 3.0 models before the official approval is almost certainly to be publishing models which will NOT be correct. We had to change things to do 2.1 and we will probably have to change things for 3.0. I will certainly not be putting any "IBIS OFFICIAL 3.0" models into any of the IBIS data areas until this specification is approved. I feel very strongly about this. I do not want what happened to EDIF to happen to IBIS. If you recal, EDIF (the earlier versions) was almost unusable because everyone had their own dialect of the "standard" and it was virtually impossible to support every dialect. At the same time, everyone claim to support EDIF. Perhaps we need some PRELIMINARY or EXPERIMENTAL designation for these new models but we should NOT call them IBIS 3.0. comments, of course, are solicited. (but don't correct my spelling). Jon Powell Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Consulting Services. IBIS Librarian From owner-ibis Fri Aug 8 14:22:00 1997 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA16422 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id OAA26766 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:18:47 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma026515; Fri, 8 Aug 97 14:18:32 -0700 Received: from lightning.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA02430 for ibis@vhdl.org; Fri, 8 Aug 97 14:20:25 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23151; Fri, 8 Aug 97 14:20:58 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Aug 97 14:20:58 PDT From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9708082120.AA23151@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Re: IBIS 3.0 and legal questions To all: A lot of hard work has gone into creating the v3.0 spec. A lot of 'bad/corrupt' models can easily find their way into the public domain if not parsed properly thru the v3.0 parser(..which is coming soon..). I personally think that the IBIS community should not encourage IBISv3.0 model distribution unless the v3.0 parser is out/debugged and approved. If you must create a v3.0 model, do it and contain it between you and your EDA vendor. Do not pass this to your customer or to the public yet....An ASCII file without properly parsed will do more harm than good. Regards, Syed Vice-Chair ANSI/EIA-656 National Semiconductor Corp. From owner-ibis Fri Aug 8 15:10:45 1997 Received: from mailext02.compaq.com (mailext02.compaq.com [207.18.199.33]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA17183 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.compaq.com(src addr [207.18.199.36]) (3687 bytes) by mailext02.compaq.com via sendmail with P\:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:08:57 -0500 (CDT) (Smail-3.2.0.96 1997-Jun-2 #1 built 1997-Jul-6) Received: from exchou-conn02.im.hou.compaq.com(really [172.18.22.250]) by mail.compaq.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Fri, 8 Aug 97 17:09:29 -0500 (CDT) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.2 built 25-may-96) Received: by exchou-conn02.im.hou.compaq.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BCA41D.D4DF6BB0@exchou-conn02.im.hou.compaq.com>; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:09:29 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Leonard, Mark" To: "'ibis@vhdl.org'" Cc: "'janderson@viewlogic.com'" Subject: RE: IBIS 3.0 and legal questions Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:09:26 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've read through the responses from tool and model suppliers, and the perspective from a model user is very different. We're actively pursuing simulation information for devices, memory modules, processor modules, etc. that can only be accurately represented with v3.0 syntax. Our choices have been limited to the following: get the information directly in Quad Design format, exert pressure and get it in a painful combination of Spice and CAD (Allegro) formats, or don't get it at all. It's quite interesting to note that Quad XTK models are becoming more readily available for most of the devices we care about. It's also interesting to see some of our competitors being forced to switch simulation tools for this very reason. I'm seeing buffer technologies continuing to advance, simulation engines advancing along with them, and the IBIS spec continuing to fall behind. V3.0 catches up to where we are today, but it will be behind again in very short order. The v3.0 spec has allowed us to start pushing the "don't get it at all" cases. Accordingly we're starting to see v3.0 models. I certainly wouldn't trust v3.0 models from just any vendor, but I some level of confidence in most of these guys. From a user perspective I generally don't trust v3.0 models any more than I trust v2.1 models (assume they're of limited value until proven otherwise). We still see a surprising number of v2.1 models with various problems (syntax, questionable data, etc.). The lack of a v3.0 parser and tool-specific translators is forcing us to write our own. We're left with no choice. Mark Leonard Manager, Signal Integrity & Package Analysis Compaq Computer Corporation -----Original Message----- From: c=US;a= ;p=COMPAQ;dda:ZID=; Sent: Friday, August 08, 1997 4:21 PM To: Leonard, Mark; c=US;a= ;p=COMPAQ;dda:ZID=; Subject: Re: IBIS 3.0 and legal questions To all: A lot of hard work has gone into creating the v3.0 spec. A lot of 'bad/corrupt' models can easily find their way into the public domain if not parsed properly thru the v3.0 parser(..which is coming soon..). I personally think that the IBIS community should not encourage IBISv3.0 model distribution unless the v3.0 parser is out/debugged and approved. If you must create a v3.0 model, do it and contain it between you and your EDA vendor. Do not pass this to your customer or to the public yet....An ASCII file without properly parsed will do more harm than good. Regards, Syed Vice-Chair ANSI/EIA-656 National Semiconductor Corp. From owner-ibis Fri Aug 8 15:26:43 1997 Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA17472 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kelly.teleport.com (kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA20281 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from scottmc@localhost) by kelly.teleport.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA03384; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:25:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott McMorrow To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Re:IBIS 3.0 and legal questions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To all: I believe I have heard some of the silliest arguments for not distributing IBIS 3.0 models today. Anyone who has actually dealt with IBIS models from semiconductor vendors (including Intel and National, among others) knows that "parser problems" are the least of our worries. I have personally used hundreds of models, most of which passed the "golden parser", only to discover fundamental problems with the underlying data. Often I/V curves and waveform tables are incorrect. Often the incorrect units are used. Often clamp curves are extracted improperly. It is wonderful that the IBIS committee has gotten to the point of publishing the version 3.0. specification. If we wait for a 3.0 golden parser ( which, by the way, is an aid to checking compliance with the specification, not the specification itself), we in the design community will be waiting for another year. The argument that the specification will change in the future does not hold water. All specifications change over time. It is through "real life" experience with using the results of a specification that is the impetus to change. Currently, the design community requires the ability to model multistage drivers, complex series elements, and modules. There is no way in IBIS 2.1 to perform these modeling tasks. There is currently no common public way to distribute this silicon and packaging information amongst the design community. We have a crisis for designs trying to achieve 100Mhz and above bus speeds with complex products in increasingly shortening design times. Yet members of the IBIS committee (and specifically representatives of the companies that need to provide this sort of data to customers) are afraid to release information because the specification (which they approved) could somehow be imperfect. Guess what? All specifications are imperfect! However, an imperfect 3.0 specification is far superior to a perfect IBIS 2.1 specification. What I need as a designer is data from which I can model and analyze my boards and chips. I choose to receive this data in the IBIS 3.0 format. I choose to receive it as soon as possible. I believe that most designers who actually design boards for a living would rather have the best design information that they can have right now. Semiconductor vendors, please get off the stick and provide IBIS 3.0 compliant models today. It would be irresponsible and inexcusable ( that is, unless you want to impede progress) to do anything otherwise. If you wish, use the IBIS Disclaimer field to qualify the preliminary status of your models. The field is already used to disclaim the suitability of the models for any purpose anyway. I hope that other boards designers and consumers of IBIS models will also speak up. I look forward to your comments. scottmc@teleport.COM From owner-ibis Wed Aug 13 09:27:06 1997 Received: from mailbag.jf.intel.com (mailbag.jf.intel.com [134.134.248.4]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA03376 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips.intel.com ([134.134.50.200] (may be forged)) by mailbag.jf.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA00261 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mh-relay by ichips.intel.com (8.7.4/jIIIa) id JAA20076; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708131621.JAA20076@ichips.intel.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: IBIS Teleconference Minutes 8/8/97 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:21:56 -0700 From: Stephen Peters DATE: August 13, 1997 SUBJECT: 8/8/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP Jeff Walden Applied Simulation Technology [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram, Fred Balistreri* Cadence Design & UniCAD C. Kumar, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz Cypress Bruce Wenniger Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu* High Design Technology (Razvan Ene) HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matt Flora* INCASES Olaf Rethmeier*, Werner Rissiek Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis, Will Hobbs, Frank Kern* Interconnectix Bob Ross* Mitsubushi Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen Motorola [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden, Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel* National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol, Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith NCR Dave Moxley, Richard Mellitz NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun) Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Peivand Tehrani VeriBest Ian Dodd, William Bell VLSI Technology Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997: 3M [Fran Hart] Actel Scott Schlachter Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden Alcatel John Fitzpatrick Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Compaq Weston Beal, Mark Leonard Dell Computer Dave Baranauskas*, Doug Wallace* EIA Patti Rusher* EMC Fabrizio Zanella Hewlett Packard, EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu Hewlett Packard, France Jean-Christophe Pautrat Hitachi Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa IBM Brad Herrman Interface Technology Dan Waterloo Micron Technology Brian Johnson Molex Gus Panella North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer) S3, Inc. Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam Symmetry Andy Hughes TRW Ray Steele Ultratest International Charles Im Zeelan Technology George Opsahl In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode September 5, 1997 (916) 356-9200 2-177650 2591118 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM The following new participants introduced themselves: Fred Balistreri of Applied Simulation Technology was involved in the early development of IBIS and expressed his company's continued interest in IBIS. Raj Raghuram will be the representive calling in to replace long term representative Dileep Divekar. Matt Flora just joined Hyperlynx is and responsible for IBIS model developemnt and the Visual IBIS Editor. Frank Kern of Intel is with the XTG Group responsible for issuing new generation IBIS (and Quad) models and also supports the hardware team using IBIS models to convey information. He expressed concern regarding no Version 3.0 Golden Parser to validate IBIS models. Rob Wenzel of Motorola just joined to replace Ahmed Omer and will be suporting internal Spice to IBIS conversions. Dave Baranauskas (and later Doug Wallace) called from Dell Computer. Dave has several years experience using IBIS. His interest is to leverage IBIS for Signal Integrity and timing issues. He expressed a strong vested interest in IBIS and in requiring IBIS models for semiconductor vendors. (Dave verified Fran Hart formerly with 3M is with Dell.) MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher reported no membership change. She reported committee income of $11,750 and an existing net of $5,272 (down from $9,433 from the last minutes after some DAC expenses, reprint purchases, and other expenses. Bob Ross questioned whether credit was given for the latest official member. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S No Corrections. Stephen Peters reviewed the AR's. The major outstanding ones are for examples for the Cookbook and BIRDs and will be carried forward. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross reported everyone is back from vacation and thanks Stephen Peters and Syed Huq for helping out with the system administration tasks. Congratulations to Stephen Peters for the new addition Spencer James Peters. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Howard Johnson's May 1997 Electronic Design article which references IBIS is availble from his site under Straight Talk for Serious Digital Designers, "Planning for Signal Integrity" under http://www.sigcon.com. Syed Huq reported on some EIA/IBIS Web page changes including roster updates and Version 3.0 access. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross notes that these Web sites have added models: Cypress Semiconductor has added many more IBIS model for FCT octals and 16 bit logic, SRAMs, Programmable Logic, and Programmable Skew Clocks. IDT, Motorola and Texas Instruments have added IBIS models. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross - East Coast IBIS Users Group Meeting Patti Rusher - EIA Matters - Budget, Design Automation 98 Booth. EAST COAST IBIS USERS GROUP Bob Ross reported that Dr. Ed Sayre of North East Systems Associates (NESA) is investigating hosting an East Coast IBIS Users meeting in Massachusettes. The tentative date will be Thursday, September 18, 1997 since Bob and others will be at the PCB East conference on September 17. Bob suggested Ed send out information on the IBIS reflectors to see who might be interested. The agenda or topics still needs to be developed. EIA IBIS MATTERS Pattie Rusher indicated that we need to work with EIA concerning next years budget to cover some anticipated Writer/Developer expenses. Pattie will not be at the PCB East Conference, but will be in a Tokyo IEC meeting. The EIA/IBIS committee plans to participate in the DAC98 Standards Booth. The price/level of committment has not been determined since the possibility of having actual IBIS demonstrations means more booth space alocation. This would also have to be considered in the budgeting discussions. INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS - 93/46/NP (IBIS Version 2.1) - Pattie Rusher will check the status at a meeting on August 21, 1997 prior to the Tokyo meeting. - 93/60/NP (IBIS Models and EMC Simulation) - Pattie will check the status at the Tokyo meeting through contacting Jean LeBrun, the IEC subcommittee chairman. - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs - Bob Ross reported no know progress, but based on the presentations at the IBIS Summit, we can expect another release in September along with a Package Committee release. Fred Balistreri reports that simulation algorithms have been incorporated and some models have been developed. EDITING COMMITTEE Stephen Peters reported no further progress on editing IBIS Version 3.0 for clarity since Bob Ross and Stephen were out. Bob reviewed briefly that the intent was to make IBIS Version 3.0 more readable by considering doing the following: Table of Contents and Section/Chapter headings Consistency of Words as suggested by Ogawa-san of the EIAJ subcommittee Tree diagram BNF Syntax Some Cookbook details added. Clarifications (BIRD44, etc.) Bob and Stephan still plan a first pass to be put in the work in progress directory (wip). After this first pass is completed, several issues will be addressed: Format - Syed Huq feels that a format other than ASCII text such as Word, HTML, Postscript will allow better graphics and presentation Professional Support - Use a professional writer. Editing Meeting - Set up a committee for an all day meeting. The existing AR is still in effect and a new one is added for Stephen and Bob to generate a first pass editorial review copy. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). AR - Stephen Peters and Bob Ross generate an editorial revision of Version 3.0 and place it in the eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory. VERSION 3.1 PARSER Four individuals responded to Stephen Peters' request for development posting. Bob Ross suggested that Stephen, Bob and Syed Huq review the candidates and issue a request for a bid regarding time/money based on the scope of the project. Chris Rokusek emphasized that the development should start and be based on the existing ibischk2+ source code with some data checking messages. He also stated that the existing messages be retained because they are used in some system. In response to a question, Bob stated that there is no further ibis_chk (for Version 1.1 or ibischk2+) development planned. Bug8 deferred one correction that existed in all parsers until Version 3.0 development. Syed Huq brought up the fact that some of the candidates may need to review the source code to provide the bid. Bob Ross agreed and would plan to provide the source code for the purposes of providing a bid only. Mike Flora asked how to get the ibischk2+ source code and Bob responded that companies (such as Hyperlynx) who have paid for the licence can get it directly from Bob Ross or Chris Rokusek. AR - Bob Ross, Stephen Peters, and Syed Huq consider the candidates and issue a document for the selected candidates to provide a time/money bid for the ibischk3 parser development project. LEGAL IBIS VERSION 3.0 FILES Chris Rokusek indicated that Jon Powell had concerns about the legality of producing IBIS Version 3.0 file with having a parser to validate them and without formal EIA ratification of IBIS Version 3.0. This generated a long discussion and debate. Some issues related to whether the files should be marked PRELIMINARY or EXPERIMENTAL in place of 3.0 for the [IBIS Ver] keyword. Bob felt that the Version 3.0 format was official, so it is legal to generate IBIS Version 3.0 files. However, the consensus of everyone was to support adding some warning/disclaimer text to alert the user that the files were not officially validated and could have syntax errors. One commentor stated that even with the IBIS Version 2.1 parser, half of the public IBIS files have bad syntax or data. Patti Rusher reviewed the anticipated steps to reach standardization - Version 3.1 with editorial review and parser completion (hopefully), then submit to EIA for a 2 month letter ballot review. Based on a successful review and response to the contents, EIA would then ratify the document as a new Standard. Chris indicated that Jon will post a note on the subject to clarify his position and initiate discussion. COOKBOOK Stephen Peters reported that he has not received any examples. The AR's are still pending below. He would use the examples and augment them with comments. Stephen also mentioned that Frank Kern plans to add a mostly tutorial section explaining the structure (IV, VT data) and its rationale with respect to using behavioral models. Stephen raised the question whether the preliminary version of the Cookbook should be made available. After some discussion, the concensus was that it is a very useful document even at this early stage. We need clear indication that this is preliminary and updates should be tracked by version number. Two ARs were generated to for this to occur. All existing example AR's are carried forward. AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 Arpad Muranyi - Example 2 Stephen Peters - Example 3 AR - D.C Sessions. Supply a paragraph or two explaining the best way to modify a SPICE transistor model to get realistic power and ground clamp information AR - Bob Ross. Supply the text for the section "Diode Transient Time Data" AR - Syed Huq. Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement". AR - Bob Ross submit an example of a Series MOSFET component. AR - Stephen Peters with Bob Ross put a copy of the Cookbook in the eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory after appropriate Version number and preliminary disclaimers are added. AR - Syed Huq provide a link to access the Cookbook document from the official EIA/IBIS Web Site when the Cookbook is uploaded. S2IBIS2 ISSUES (& NT) Bob Ross reported that the NT versions of s2ibis have not yet been put on the VeriBest Web site. So the AR is still active. AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver1.3 and s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest Web site. BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS Bob Ross summarized the status of BIRD42.3. It was not approved at the June IBIS ratification meeting because of some controversial aspects. There was no further discussion. The AR is still considered open. AR - D.C. Sessions and Kumar get together and provide an example showing where the rising and falling waveform tables do not result in correct results. BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA Bob Ross proposed that BIRD44 be put in the Editorial Committee portion of the Agenda since it is an editorial clarification. As discussed at the previous meeting, the contents of BIRD44 will be taken into account as part of the first editorial pass of Version 3.0. It will continue to remain open. SWITCHING TERMINATORS Arpad Muranyi has no further work in this area, but now has more time to work on it. In response to a question by Dave Baranauskas regarding whether this was an extension of the IBIS scope, Arpad indicated that the funtionality was not for a new type of terminator, but was for some internal I/O buffer electrical characterization that is new. (Some overview discussions are on the FTP sight under summits for the January 1997 IBIS Open Forum Summit meeting.) MISCELLANEOUS DISCUSSION The technical content of the meeting was concluded ahead of schedule. Bob Ross opened the meeting up to discussions and questions on all subjects. As indicated above, the presentations of several previous IBIS Summits where the focus was primarily information presentations are available at the eda.org site (same as vhdl.org): http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits. They are also available using anonymous FTP at this location. The BIRD (Buffer Issue Resolution Document) process was reviewed by Bob and Arpad Muranyi as the method used by the committee to revise the standard. A key aspect is that we will argue solid proposals based on the wording of the proposed revision. BIRDs go through revisions based on the discussions. They are available from the eda.org/pub/ibis/birds site and through other links. Dave Baranauksas asked for more details on the French IBIS Modeling and EMC proposal and Bob responded that he was seeking details as well. Dave also asked about the EIAJ III work since he had received the synopsys document from Fred Balistreri. Bob and other discussed aspects of this proposal including the fact the transistor devices were based on the source table information. This is more accurate than the (arbitrary level) equation data, but does not give some parameter sensitivites (such as temperature) that are taken into account in the assumed equations. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting is on Friday, September 5, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. following the Labor day weekend. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469 bob@icx.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix 10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@vhdl.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@vhdl.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@vhdl.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@vhdl.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@vhdl.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@vhdl.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@vhdl.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ============================================================================== From owner-ibis Wed Aug 20 12:41:01 1997 Received: from relayhost.vlsi.com (tweety.vlsi.com [134.27.20.23]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA29509 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:41:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relayhost.tempe.vlsi.com (anubis.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.1]) by relayhost.vlsi.com (8.6.12/Hub-Perlotto/050895) with ESMTP id MAA26808 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:39:12 -0700 Received: from mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com (mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.5]) by relayhost.tempe.vlsi.com (8.6.9/Hub-Perlotto/101195) with ESMTP id MAA21793 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:39:10 -0700 Received: from witsend ([134.27.133.12]) by mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA16784 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:39:09 -0700 Sender: dc.sessions@tempe.vlsi.com (D.C. Sessions) Message-ID: <33FB4752.1F5A@tempe.vlsi.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:36:50 -0700 From: "D. C. Sessions" Organization: VLSI Technology Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IBIS Mailing list Subject: CMOS drain diodes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We use a pretty simple method to correct the parasitic diode models for our HSPICE decks prior to doing the IBIS extraction. First, we replace each MOS transistor with a subcircuit having similar characteristics and parameters; this is handled by an AWK script: #! /usr/local/bin/gawk -f BEGIN { IGNORECASE = 1 } /^M/ { if( $6 ~ /^p$/ ) { $6 = "pdt" sub( /^M/, "Xmd_", $1 ) } else if( $6 ~ /^n$/ ) { $6 = "ndt" sub( /^M/, "Xmd_", $1 ) } else if( $6 ~ /^y$/ ) { $6 = "ndt" sub( /^M/, "Xmd_", $1 ) } for( f = 6; f <= NF; f++ ) { sub( /^L=/, "Ltc=", $f ) sub( /^W=/, "Wtc=", $f ) } } { print } The library includes the subcircuit file for the transistor models: .SUBCKT ndt drain gate source bulk + AS=0 AD=0 PS=0 PD=0 M1 drain gate source bulk N L=Ltc W=Wtc GEO=3 *+ AS=0 AD=0 PS=0 PD=0 Dbs bulk drain NDIO AREA=AD PJ=PD Dbd bulk source NDIO AREA=AS PJ=PS .ENDS ndt .SUBCKT pdt drain gate source bulk + AS=0 AD=0 PS=0 PD=0 M1 drain gate source bulk P L=Ltc W=Wtc GEO=3 *+ AS=0 AD=0 PS=0 PD=0 Dbs drain bulk PDIO AREA=AD PJ=PD Dbd source bulk PDIO AREA=AS PJ=PS .ENDS pdt ... which results in the area and sidewall parasitics for the MOS devices being zeroed out (thus zeroing their diode currents and parasitic capacitances) and in their places are explicit diode models (NDIO and PDIO) which have improved V/I matching and capacitances. -- D. C. Sessions dc.sessions@tempe.vlsi.com From owner-ibis Thu Aug 21 22:37:01 1997 Received: from s1.fh-landshut.de (s1.fh-landshut.de [193.175.141.54]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA04156 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from s8.fh-landshut.de by s1.fh-landshut.de with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA17181; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 07:34:46 +0200 Sender: schwa1@fh-landshut.de Message-Id: <33FD2513.1D22@fh-landshut.de> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 07:35:15 +0200 From: Schneider Walter Organization: Fachhochschule Landshut X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.07 9000/715) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: info tms320c31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello! I'm trying to create an ibis-model for the tms320c31 (digital signal processor 132 pin PQFP package). Who can help me in creating such a model? I don't know how to group the signals into appropriate groups for ibis. Besides has anyone an idea how to test an ibis model for the tms320c31 (pspice simulation with this model - against measure- ments on a board with the tms320c31)? Thank you! mail: Walter Schneider Muehlweg 25 94513 Schoenberg Germany email: schwa1@fh-landshut.de From owner-ibis Mon Aug 25 07:54:33 1997 Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.235]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA24571 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpbs2933.boi.hp.com (pgregory@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com [15.8.28.3]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14167 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hpbs2933.boi.hp.com (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA09549; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:51:36 -0600 From: Paul Gregory Message-Id: <9708251451.AA09549@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com> Subject: PCI IBIS model To: ibis@vhdl.org Date: Mon, 25 Aug 97 8:51:36 MDT Cc: pgregory@boi.hp.com (Paul Gregory) Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] I am looking for an IBIS model of a PCI spec compliant device. I am working with PCI v2.1 and IBIS v2.1. I would like a model that matches the min and max requirements for a 3.3v system, assuming Vcc min =3.0 and Vcc max = 3.6 as specified in the spec. I am not looking for a specific device implementation, but a generic PCI min/max device. Is such a model already available, or do I need to create it myself? -- Paul Gregory phone: (208) 396-5086 USmail: Hewlett-Packard fax: (208) 396-4122 M/S 143 email: paul_gregory@hp.com 11311 Chinden Blvd. Boise, ID 83714 From owner-ibis Mon Aug 25 10:49:11 1997 Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.235]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA27646 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpbs2933.boi.hp.com (pgregory@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com [15.8.28.3]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08227 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hpbs2933.boi.hp.com (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA10180; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:46:26 -0600 From: Paul Gregory Message-Id: <9708251746.AA10180@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com> Subject: Re: PCI IBIS Model To: ibis@vhdl.org Date: Mon, 25 Aug 97 11:46:26 MDT Cc: pgregory@boi.hp.com (Paul Gregory) Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] I apologize for not making my request more clear the first time. Rather than a specific PCI implementation, I am looking for a PCI IBIS model that models exactly the PCI spec, that is, the v/i curves (and other sections) track exactly along the lines of the spec limits. Usually any PCI implementation will be between the min/max boundaries; I want a model that is exactly on the boundaries. I would like a model that includes ramps, diodes, pull up/down, and comp/pkg parameters. Am I missing other parts of the model that should be in it? Thanks for your help. -- Paul Gregory phone: (208) 396-5086 USmail: Hewlett-Packard fax: (208) 396-4122 M/S 143 email: paul_gregory@hp.com 11311 Chinden Blvd. Boise, ID 83714 From owner-ibis Mon Aug 25 13:12:21 1997 Received: from mail11.digital.com (mail11.digital.com [192.208.46.10]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA00132 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us8rmc.bb.dec.com (us8rmc.bb.dec.com [16.53.0.44]) by mail11.digital.com (8.7.5/UNX 1.5/1.0/WV) with SMTP id PAA14260; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wrksys.enet by us8rmc.bb.dec.com (5.65/rmc-17Jan97) id AA15994; Mon, 25 Aug 97 15:36:30 -0400 Message-Id: <9708251936.AA15994@us8rmc.bb.dec.com> Received: from wrksys.enet; by us8rmc.enet; Mon, 25 Aug 97 15:50:23 EDT Date: Mon, 25 Aug 97 15:50:23 EDT From: Andy Ingraham To: pgregory@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com Cc: ibis@vhdl.org, ingraham@wrksys.ENET.dec.com Apparently-To: ibis@vhdl.org, pgregory@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com Subject: Re: PCI IBIS Model I'm sure someone must have made one by now. PCI devices are described in the PCI spec in terms of V/I curves, which would make them ideal for IBIS representation. 95% of it should be trivial. > I would like a model that includes > ramps, diodes, pull up/down, and comp/pkg parameters. Am I > missing other parts of the model that should be in it? Don't forget ramp (slew) rates. You might want a couple of different models, since the overshoot clamp diode in 5V PCI is optional. One with the diode, one without. Regards, Andy From owner-ibis Mon Aug 25 19:27:45 1997 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA06619 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id NAA27838 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:41:24 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma024144; Mon, 25 Aug 97 13:34:01 -0700 Received: from lightning.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA20842 for ibis@vhdl.org; Mon, 25 Aug 97 13:29:55 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28357; Mon, 25 Aug 97 13:30:31 PDT Date: Mon, 25 Aug 97 13:30:31 PDT From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9708252030.AA28357@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: New IBIS models from National Cc: huq@rockie.nsc.com IBIS fans, National Semiconductor's Personal Systems Group has released the following two Super I/O IBIS models on it's web site: pc87307.ibs pc97307.ibs The URL is: http://www.national.com/models Select 'IBIS' and then 'SuperI/O' Best Regards, Syed Vice-Chair ANSI/EIA-656 National Semiconductor Corp. From owner-ibis Mon Aug 25 20:03:30 1997 Received: from honcho.columbiasc.ncr.com ([153.78.17.231]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA07292 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exchsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (xgate.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM [153.78.17.107]) by honcho.columbiasc.ncr.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA04528 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:01:38 -0400 Received: by exchsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BCB1AA.CD409650@exchsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:01:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Mellitz, Richard" To: "'ibis@vhdl.org'" , "'Paul Gregory'" Cc: "'pgregory@boi.hp.com'" Subject: RE: PCI IBIS Model Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:01:10 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 43 TEXT >Paul, > >Making an I/V curve track the maximum and minimum curves may not give you the >corners of performance you are looking for. Instantaneous impedance, dv/di >could theoretically be open or short. i.e. rho = +/- 1. What I've done is >look at various chip mfgs i/v curves and make a composite of the corners. >Incidently I only need to go to this extreme if I'm pushing reccomended PCI practices...else I just use the models that come with Hspice. You also need to make some calls on the wave shape even though there are >spec's on slew. > >... Richard Mellitz, NCR > >---------- >From: Paul Gregory[SMTP:pgregory@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com] >Sent: Monday, August 25, 1997 12:46 PM >To: ibis@vhdl.org >Cc: pgregory@boi.hp.com >Subject: Re: PCI IBIS Model > > >I apologize for not making my request more clear the >first time. > >Rather than a specific PCI implementation, I am looking for >a PCI IBIS model that models exactly the PCI spec, that is, >the v/i curves (and other sections) track exactly along the >lines of the spec limits. Usually any PCI implementation will >be between the min/max boundaries; I want a model that is >exactly on the boundaries. I would like a model that includes >ramps, diodes, pull up/down, and comp/pkg parameters. Am I >missing other parts of the model that should be in it? > >Thanks for your help. > > -- Paul Gregory > > phone: (208) 396-5086 USmail: Hewlett-Packard > fax: (208) 396-4122 M/S 143 > email: paul_gregory@hp.com 11311 Chinden Blvd. > Boise, ID 83714 > From owner-ibis Thu Aug 28 15:18:50 1997 Received: from relayhost.vlsi.com (tweety.vlsi.com [134.27.20.23]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA16186 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relayhost.tempe.vlsi.com (anubis.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.1]) by relayhost.vlsi.com (8.6.12/Hub-Perlotto/050895) with ESMTP id PAA24101 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:16:56 -0700 Received: from mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com (mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.5]) by relayhost.tempe.vlsi.com (8.6.9/Hub-Perlotto/101195) with ESMTP id PAA00547 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:16:55 -0700 Received: from tempe.vlsi.com ([134.27.133.12]) by mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA19759; Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:16:54 -0700 Sender: dc.sessions@tempe.vlsi.com (D.C. Sessions) Message-ID: <3405F82F.64280376@tempe.vlsi.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:14:07 -0700 From: "D. C. Sessions" Organization: VLSI Technology Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Ross CC: IBIS Mailing list Subject: Re: VLSI IBIS Models References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Ross wrote: > > D. C. > > It looks like VLSI has taken the IBIS models off of the > VLSI page. Do you know anything about this? I managed to chase it down. I'm copying this to the list because we owe everyone an apology. Here's what happened: Recently, one of our VIPs noticed that the published library of modeled parts consisted entirely of out-of-production devices. (One of the consequences of a rapidly-changing industry and the takeover of the chipset & PC motherboard business by a single company.) So, by management decision, we pulled the chip-level models. At present, we have device-level IBIS models for all of our standard cell I/O libraries, and are producing chip-level IBIS models for customers' chips. We're currently discussing the best way to publish the standard-cell IBIS models; one camp is in favor of CD-ROM inclusion along with the libraries, while another wants to put them on the corporate WWW page. When there's a decision I'll let you know. Once again, I apologize for not notifying the group when we pulled our model site. . -- D. C. Sessions dc.sessions@tempe.vlsi.com From owner-ibis Fri Aug 29 07:49:18 1997 Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA03412 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 07:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibm-customer (ppp-206-171-248-89.vntrcs.pacbell.net [206.171.248.89]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.7/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id HAA29854; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 07:47:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3406E0C1.5522@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 07:46:26 -0700 From: Jon Powell Reply-To: jonp@pacbell.net Organization: Viewlogic Consulting Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBWG (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Model Website Update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow Ibisians, The IBIS model website (accessible off of eia.org) has been updated. New models have been referenced from MOTOROLA and IBM. The VLSI reference has been deleted as it is no longer active. VLSI has no data as to when they may re-activate their site. As always, these external models have not been officially reviewed by the IBIS committee. aviarily yours, Jon Powell Ibis Librarian. From owner-ibis Fri Aug 29 08:45:01 1997 Received: from tower.ti.com (tower.ti.com [192.94.94.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA04451 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from happy.memh.ti.com ([158.218.36.100]) by tower.ti.com (8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00837 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:42:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from r2d2.memh.ti.com by happy.memh.ti.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA138429382; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:43:02 -0500 Received: from r2d2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r2d2.memh.ti.com with SMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id KAA00836 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:42:20 -0500 (CDT) Sender: vchang@memh.ti.com Message-Id: <3406EDDB.45F2@memh.ti.com> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:42:19 -0500 From: Vincent Chang X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; U; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/780) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Bi-Direction pins Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, In IBIS model, how to model the Bi-direction pins? The situation is that I have an output buffer that contains an input buffer as well. There is only one buffer can be actived at one time. So, I am not so sure which buffer's model should I put for the pin. -- Best Regards, Vincent Chang ======================================================================= * Vincent Chang TI MSG ID: hui8 * * Design Automation mailto:vchang@memh.ti.com * * Memory Products Design http://www.memh.ti.com/~mcad * * Texas Instruments Inc. MS 657 Phone: (281) 274-3167 * * PO Box 1443, Houston, TX 77251 Fax: (281) 274-2067 * ======================================================================= From owner-ibis Fri Aug 29 10:25:01 1997 Received: from fw.icx.com (root@fw.icx.com [205.238.6.33]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA06313 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by fw.icx.com (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #4) id ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by chane.icx.com (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #5) id ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bob.icx.com via send-mail with stdio id for ibis@eda.org; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:23:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #7 built 1997-Jun-4) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:23:25 -0700 (PDT) From: bob@icx.com ( Bob Ross) To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS Meeting Agenda 9/5/97 IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 9/5/97 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode (916) 356-9200 2-177650 2591118 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Ross - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Ross - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Rusher - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Peters - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Powell, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:25 Administrative and Project Discussions International Progress Rusher/Ross - 93/46/NP (IBIS Version 2.1) - 93/60/NP (IBIS Models and EMC Simulation) - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) East Coast IBIS Users Meeting Ross Editing Committee Ross/Peters BIRD44 Interpretation of Min/Max/Weak/Strong Data Ross Version 3.1 Parser Ross - Funding and Budget - Version 3.0 Models Issue Cookbook Peters - Examples New Administrative Issues All 8:50 Technical Discussion BIRD42.3 Modeling Current Waveforms Kumar/Ross Switched Terminators Muranyi New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Ross 9:55 Sign Off From owner-ibis Fri Aug 29 12:19:47 1997 Received: from jester.ti.com (jester.ti.com [192.94.94.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA08254 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from happy.memh.ti.com ([158.218.36.100]) by jester.ti.com (8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16601 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from r2d2.memh.ti.com by happy.memh.ti.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA150592272; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:52 -0500 Received: from r2d2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r2d2.memh.ti.com with SMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id OAA01487 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:09 -0500 (CDT) Sender: vchang@memh.ti.com Message-Id: <34072035.2B00@memh.ti.com> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:09 -0500 From: Vincent Chang X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; U; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/780) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: package and die Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, In ibis model, the package is not be used on simulation. Why? -- Best Regards, Vincent Chang ======================================================================= * Vincent Chang TI MSG ID: hui8 * * Design Automation mailto:vchang@memh.ti.com * * Memory Products Design http://www.memh.ti.com/~mcad * * Texas Instruments Inc. MS 657 Phone: (281) 274-3167 * * PO Box 1443, Houston, TX 77251 Fax: (281) 274-2067 * ======================================================================= From owner-ibis Fri Aug 29 13:22:52 1997 Received: from calliope1.fm.intel.com (calliope1.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.10]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA09417 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fmmail.fm.intel.com by calliope1.fm.intel.com (8.8.6/10.0i); Fri, 29 Aug 1997 20:21:27 GMT Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by fmmail.fm.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA22431 for ibis@vhdl.org; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ccm.fm.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #2) Fri, 29 Aug 97 13:17:45 PDT Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 13:13:00 PDT From: Arpad Muranyi Message-ID: To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Re: package and die Text item: Vincent, Where did you get this idea from? Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ================================================================= All, In ibis model, the package is not be used on simulation. Why? -- Best Regards, Vincent Chang ======================================================================= * Vincent Chang TI MSG ID: hui8 * * Design Automation mailto:vchang@memh.ti.com * * Memory Products Design http://www.memh.ti.com/~mcad * * Texas Instruments Inc. MS 657 Phone: (281) 274-3167 * * PO Box 1443, Houston, TX 77251 Fax: (281) 274-2067 * ======================================================================= Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: package and die To: ibis@vhdl.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; U; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/780) From: Vincent Chang Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:09 -0500 Message-Id: <34072035.2B00@memh.ti.com> Sender: vchang@memh.ti.com Received: from r2d2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r2d2.memh.ti.com with SMTP (8.7.1 /8.7.1) id OAA01487 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from r2d2.memh.ti.com by happy.memh.ti.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA150592272; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:52 -0500 Received: from happy.memh.ti.com ([158.218.36.100]) by jester.ti.com (8.8.5) wit h ESMTP id OAA16601 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:17:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jester.ti.com (jester.ti.com [192.94.94.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8 .8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA08254 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:19:4 6 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.vhdl.org (server.vhdl.org [198.31.14.3]) by mailbag.jf.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA23508; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbag.jf.intel.com by relay.hf.intel.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0x4Woc-000qDNC; Fri, 29 Aug 97 12:34 PDT