From owner-ibis Thu Apr 2 12:28:34 1998 Received: from mail13.digital.com (mail13.digital.com [192.208.46.30]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA08265 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:28:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com (sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com [16.29.160.92]) by mail13.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0c) with ESMTP id PAA26807 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:25:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <2FJFS53C>; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:25:46 -0500 Message-ID: <71EEA9EA5129D1118EA30000F840EBF138DC9A@sbuamapko3bc.eng.pko.dec.com> From: Greg Edlund To: "'ibis@vhdl.org'" Subject: IBIS Accuracy Sub-Committee Minutes Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:05:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" IBIS Accuracy Sub-Committee Minutes Thursday, March 26, 1998 Held at Digital Equipment's PKO3 building, 129 Parker St., Maynard, MA Attendees Greg Edlund, Digital Equipment (chair) Fawn Engelmann, EMC Bob Haller, Digital Equipment Bruce Heilbrunn, Stratus Computer Peter LaFlamme, Fairchild Semiconductor Harvey Stiegler, Texas Instruments (via conference call) Business The chairman will be responsible for circulating the agenda the Monday prior to the meeting and posting the minutes to the IBIS reflector and IBIS user's group mailing list within one week. The sub-committee members will be responsible for circulating their homework among the group on or before the Monday prior to the meeting. Bob Haller has begun writing a rough draft. He will fold other's work into the document and circulate it among the group. When the document gets closer to a first release, it will go through a more formal editing and formatting procedure. When it becomes apparent that the group cannot agree on an issue, we have agreed to table the issue until the next meeting to prevent grid-lock. In the mean time, parties will have the opportunity to discuss the issue off-line and build a case, which will be presented briefly at the next meeting and brought up for a vote. Correspondence The chairman received much positive and constructive feedback from publishing the "Proposal for an IBIS Accuracy Specification," and we reviewed this feedback at the meeting. We also received some dissenting opinions which in general ran along the lines that the work of the IBIS Accuracy Sub-Committee did not need to carry the full weight of a specification. (In our discussions we maintained anonymity for those who had negative opinions so as to avoid any flame wars.) In addition, there seemed to be some points of confusion in the proposal; it may need to be reworded in some areas. The IBIS Accuracy Sub-Committee would like to thank all who took the time to respond. We hope that people will continue in the future to be liberal with their critical input. Milestones The group approved the setting of three milestones, to which we will add as we work out the details. May 15, 1998: Post the IBIS Model Test Board to the web. September 18, 1998: Distribute the first draft of the IBIS Accuracy Specification February 1999: Present the IBIS Accuracy Specification at DesignCon99 Editing 1. Scope Peter Laflamme successfully completed his research into IBIS "parameters" from version 1.1 through 3.0 which might be relevant to accuracy. In summary, these parameters include I/O buffer capacitance, package RLC, IV curves, and ramp rate. He also presented a list of other parameters which might be relevant in the future. The discussion continued around how much of IBIS we should attempt to cover in the first release of the IBIS Accuracy Specification. Bruce Heilbrunn, supported by a former colleague from Stratus, argued that the first draft of the IBIS Accuracy Specification should cover the entirety of IBIS 3.0. Greg Edlund and Bob Haller argued that IBIS has evolved to cover various new I/O buffer designs which may require different test conditions than a generic IBIS 1.1 push-pull or open-drain buffer. Greg and Bob's position is that it would be too much work to attempt to cover all possible I/O buffer designs currently covered by IBIS 3.0 in the first draft. The sub-committee tabled the issue for a vote at the next meeting. 2. Test Loads Bob Haller documented a first cut at a set of test loads in his rough draft. These include standard load, transmission line terminated into its characteristic impedance (or resistive load if board layout permits), open-ended transmission line, and output buffer driving an input buffer on the same component. Bob also proposed two other "optional" net topologies, but the group has yet to decide whether these belong in the IBIS Accuracy Specification or the IBIS Cookbook. 3. Measurement Techniques Bob's rough draft also included an outline of measurement techniques, including oscilloscope bandwidth, test environment characterization, and test conditions. 4. Metrics We did not discuss comparison metrics at this meeting. IBIS Model Test Board Peter Laflamme, Fawn Engelmann, and Greg Edlund have successfully debugged everything on the test board except for the capacitance measurement. If anyone has experience measuring pin capacitance on a powered-up DUT using an HP4175 LCR meter, please drop us a line! Fawn and Greg will be making modifications to the schematics and layout and submitting the design for fabrication and assembly in the next two weeks. Peter Laflamme has graciously offered the services of Fairchild's PC board shop to build this new revision of the board. IBIS Developers Tool Kit Following the lead of Hyperlynx's, Bruce Heilbrunn has drafted a letter to the other EDA vendors requesting a similar tool be made available to the IBIS community in the coming year. It is our feeling that a reduced-feature simulation engine would be a great aid in the model development process. Furthermore, if modeling engineers have several simulation engines available, they can assess the magnitude of the differences among them for various test cases. For the purposed of the IBIS Accuracy Sub-Committee, this may allow us to avoid any pitfalls arguing over third-order effects. IBIS Cookbook Bob Haller and Stephen Peters have agreed to work together to complete the remaining two chapters of the IBIS Cookbook related to measurement and verification. Clearly, there is much overlap between the work of the IBIS Accuracy Sub-Committee and the Cookbook. Homework Greg Edlund - finish schematics and layout of the IBIS Model Test Board. Build a strong case for why different driver families may require different test loads and why the first version of the IBIS Accuracy Specification needs to be constrained to IBIS 1.1; discuss off-line Fawn Engelmann - finish schematics and layout of the IBIS Model Test Board. Peter LaFlamme - list all IBIS 1.1 keywords that are relevant to the IBIS Accuracy Specification. Ask Mike Ward if he is willing to provide input to the Measurement Techniques section. Bob Haller - continue developing the Measurement Techniques section. Discuss with Stephen Peters an outline of IBIS Cookbook chapters 5 and 6. Bruce Heilbrunn - add a list of suggested features to the IBIS Developer's Toolkit letter. Build a strong case for how the IBIS Accuracy Specification can cover all I/O buffers covered by IBIS 3.0 within the constraints of our milestones; discuss off-line. Next meeting Thursday, April 30, 1998 from 3:00 to 5:00 pm at Digital Equipment's PKO3 building, 129 Parker St., Maynard, MA. ---------- Greg Edlund, Principal Engineer Server Product Development Digital Equipment Corp. 129 Parker St. PKO3-1/20C Maynard, MA 01754 (978) 493-4157 voice (978) 493-0941 FAX greg.edlund@digital.com From owner-ibis Thu Apr 2 14:02:30 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [192.94.38.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA09669 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:02:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id NAA00850; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:58:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from bob by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id NAA19904; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:58:53 -0800 (PST) From: bobr@wv.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA07786; Thu, 2 Apr 98 13:58:58 PST Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 13:58:58 PST Message-Id: <9804022158.AA07786@bob> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS BIRD48 - Add Model Dear IBIS folks: BIRD45.1 has been out for a while and there have been even some technical suggestions for improvement. However, one suggestion was to investigate how it could utilize the [Driver Schedule] keyword. This was investigated, and after looking at some very complicated interactions at a meeting with Arpad Muranyi, Bob Ross, and Chris Reid on March 11, 1998, we decided to propose a more general and expandable mechanism that supports actual EDA tool implementation modularization and also IBIS modularized reuse of the existing structures when relevant. This will reduce the expansion of keywords support every new idea that comes along. The actual details were not discussed at that meeting. However, after some further reflections, the [Add Model] and [Add Model Spec] keywords are proposed here along with BIRD49 and BIRD50 for the first two implementations The rationale is discussed within BIRD48. BIRD49 and BIRD50 are proposed applications of the rationale for Dynamic Clamps and Bus Hold additions. BIRD48, BIRD49, and BIRD50 are interrelated and should be considered together. This will be discussed at the April 3, 1998 IBIS meeting. Bob Ross Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** BIRD ID#: 48 ISSUE TITLE: Add Model REQUESTER: Neven Orhanovic, Bob Ross, Mentor G., Arpad Muranyi, Intel DATE SUBMITTED: 4/2/98 DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: Pending ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: A method is needed to add model feature details to an existing IBIS [Model] for unanticipated technical expansion requirements. ****************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: Following the [Model Spec] keyword will be this new keyword: |============================================================================== | Keywords: [Add Model] | Required: No | Description: References a special model to be added to an existing | model. | Sub-Params: None | Usage Rules: Each [Add Model] adds to an existing model from which | [Add Model] is invoked some additional model information | that is documented within another [Model] of the model | listed below: | | Dynamic_clamp | Bus_hold | | For example, the bus hold electrical characteristics | modeled by a restrictive Bus_hold model may added to an | Input or I/O model. | | More Model_types may be added in the future to deal with | technological advances. | | Refer to the Add Model Section in this document for a | for the rules and descriptions of models that can be | added. | |------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Add Model] Bus_Hold_1 | Adds the electrical characteristics of | [Model] Bus_Hold_1 the existing [Model] | |============================================================================== Add a new section: |============================================================================= |============================================================================= | | Section 6a | | A D D M O D E L D E S C R I P T I O N | |============================================================================= |============================================================================= | | The [Add Model] keyword is an optional extention to an existing [Model] | for the purposes of adding some special-purpose detail. The [Add Model] | keyword references a new model containing this functional detail. | | In general, models which are used for the purposes of adding functional | detail will still use the [Model] keyword and some subset of its associated | keywords. The required or allowable keywords for each type of new [Model] | that can be invoked by the [Add Model] keyword are discussed. | | these subparameters which are defined under [Model] continue to be required: | | Model_type | C_comp | | [Voltage Range] is required unless all four of the reference voltages | [Pullup Reference], [Pulldown Reference], [GND Clamp Reference], and [POWER | Clamp Reference] are provided. These reference voltages are optional in | as previously defined, but are all required if [Voltage Range] is not used. | | The Model_type subparameter will be used to determine the functional | components that are required within that model. | | The [Model Spec] keyword is reserved for externally available specification | information. It should not appear in a model reference by [Add Model]. | Instead, the [Add Model Spec] keyword is defined to provide additional | information that is needed, but is normally not available in any data sheet. | The model provider may possess internal, proprietary documentation that | contains the information. | |============================================================================= | Keyword: [Add Model Spec] | Required: No | Sub-Params: V_trig_r, V_trig_f | Description: The [Add Model Spec] keyword defines four columns under which | specification and information subparameters are defined for | [Model]s which are called by the [Add Model] keyword. | | The [Add Model Spec] is to be used only with models for the | Model_type: Dynamic_clamp and Bus_hold. | | The following subparameters are defined: | V_trig_r Rising edge trigger voltage | V_trig_f Falling edge trigger voltage | | Usage Rules: [Add Model Spec] must follow all other subparameters under the | [Model] keyword. | | For each subparameter contained in the first column, the | remaining three hold its typical, minimum and maximum values. | The entries of typical, minimum and maximum be must be placed | on a single line and must be separated by at least one white | space or tab or tab character. All four columns are required | under the [Model Spec] keyword. However, data is required | only in the typical column. If minimum and/or maximum values | are not available, the reserved word "NA" must be used | indicating the typical value by default. | | The minimum and maximum values are used for specifications | subparameter values that may track the min and max operation | conditions of the [Model]. Usually it is related to the | Voltage Range settings. | | Unless noted below, each subparameter does not require having | any other subparameter. | | V_trigger_r, V_trigger_f rules: | | The voltage trigger values for the rising and falling edges | edges provide the starting time at which an action is | initiated. | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Add Model Spec] | Subparameter typ min max | | Dynamic Clamp | V_trigger_h 3.6 2.9 4.3 | Starts power pulse table V_trigger_f 1.4 1.2 1.6 | Starts gnd pulse table | | Bus Hold | V_trigger_h 3.1 2.4 3.7 | Starts low to high | bus hold transition V_trigger_f 1.8 1.6 2.0 | Starts high to low | bus hold transition | | |============================================================================= ****************************************************************************** ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: After considering the Dynamic Clamp and then seeing the need for a more general mechanism for also adding "latching" in the model - to be added to the existing Model, a new keyword is proposed for adding special purpose models. New Model_types will be defined for the special purposes. The [Model Spec] keyword will be used to add additional control or information subparameters. Additional keywords may be proposed that apply only to the specific model type. However, this model call method also allows using the existing keywords to construct the added functionality. One motivation for this alternative construction is based on BIRD45.1 for Dynamic Clamps. BIRD45.1defines some new clamping tables. However, with a special purpose model defined in BIRD49, the existing [GND Clamp] and [POWER Clamp] keywords can be used along with others to add a clamp that has a controlled reference shift over time. A similar motivation is BIRD50 for a new Bus_hold mechanism. The terminology is still up for discussion. This mechanism can be used to add to the Input or I/O model a Bus-Hold Circuit similar to how they are being currently implemented - via a weak output stage that switches according to thresholds. This mechanism also models the functionally of some proprietary structures that also produce a latching effect via some weak output stages. An alternative that was intially considered was to lump several "related" extensions into its own Model_type (the Model_types could even be called Extension_1, Extension_2, etc.) However after considering this for the Dynamic Clamp and Bus Hold functionality, this was rejected. The interaction of several Model_type specific rules would be combersome and confusing to document. BIRD48 also defines a consistent and understandable mechanism [Add Model] to add electrical and informational functionality of new feature that have not been defined. Using just [Model Spec] for some additional specification subparameters was considered. However, the [Model Spec] keyword should really be used for real, external specification subparameters. So the internal [Add Model Spec] as added in a parallel manner to deal with internally specified parameters that are needed for the additional model, but may not appear in data sheets or data books. ****************************************************************************** ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: BIRD48 is an evolution in thinking starting with BIRD45 for dynamic clamps. The need to consider some output models withing the clamping structure, but the proposals were becoming extremely complex with many new keywords, and with possible augmentation to the already complex [Driver Schedule] keyword. Several meetings were held on this subject. The last meeting on March 11, 1998 with Chris Reid, Bob Ross, and Arpad Muranyi was held to consider these complicated additions. The outcome was essentially a proposal that new Model_types can be defined for specific additions, the models themselves would could contain very well-defined information including new keywords that were allowed only with [Model]s of that type, and that the models would be called by an [Add Model] mechanism within another model. This seemed to fit implementation architectures where the new model information is well modularized (and in some cases just uses the same structures), and provided electrical information that is additive (or subtractive) to the existing models. The proposal here is an extension of what was discussed at the March 11, 1998 meeting based on some further reflections to associate any new functionality with its own Model_type. ****************************************************************************** From owner-ibis Thu Apr 2 14:05:03 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [192.94.38.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA09677 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id OAA00997; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:01:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from bob by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id OAA20248; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:01:30 -0800 (PST) From: bobr@wv.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA07816; Thu, 2 Apr 98 14:01:34 PST Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 14:01:34 PST Message-Id: <9804022201.AA07816@bob> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS BIRD50 - Add Model Bus Hold Dear IBIS folks: BIRD50 describes a bus hold extension which is also useful for other similar structures. Bob Ross Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** BIRD ID#: 50 ISSUE TITLE: Add Model Dynamic Clamps REQUESTER: Neven Orhanovic, Bob Ross, Mentor G., Arpad Muranyi, Intel DATE SUBMITTED: 4/2/98 DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: Pending ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: New devices incorporate bus hold or other latching mechanisms to hold the input at a particular state using some active pullup and pulldown components. ****************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: The Bus Hold functionality is added in the new Section 6a: | Bus Hold: | | The bus hold functionality is defined by the Model_type 'Bus_hold'. The | [Pullup] and [Pulldown] tables both are used to define a weak internal | buffer that is triggered to be set in the opposite state of the signal. | The transistion is defined normally by a [Ramp] keyword, but, the [Rising | Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] keywords also may be used. | | The transition is triggered by action at the die using the [Add Model Spec] | V_trigger_r and V_trigger_f subparameters as follows: | | If the starting voltage is below V_trigger_f, then the Bus_hold model is | set to the low stage causing additional pulldown current. If the starting | voltage is above V_trigger_r, the Bus_hold model is set to the high | state for additional pullup current. When the input passes though | V_trigger_f during a high to low transition at the die, the Bus_hold output | changes to the low state. Similarly when the input passes though | V_trigger_r during a low to high transition at the die, the Bus_hold output | change to the high state. | | No additional keywords are needed for this functionality. |------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | Complete Bus_hold Model Example: | [Model] Bus_hold_1 Model_type Bus_hold C_comp 0 0 0 | [Add Model Spec] | Subparameter typ min max | V_trigger_f 1.3 1.2 1.4 | Falling edge trigger V_trigger_r 3.1 2.6 4.6 | Rising edge trigger | [Pulldown] | -5V -100uA -80uA -120uA -1V -30uA -25uA -40uA 0V 0 0 0 1V 30uA 25uA 40uA 3V 50uA 45uA 50uA 5V 100uA 80uA 120uA 10v 120uA 90uA 150uA | [Pullup] | -5V 100uA 80uA 120uA -1V 30uA 25uA 40uA 0V 0 0 0 1V -30uA -25uA -40uA 3V -50uA -45uA -50uA 5V -100uA -80uA -120uA 10v -120uA -90uA -150uA | |**************************************************************************** | [Ramp] | typ min max dV/dt_r 2.0/0.50n 2.0/0.75n 2.0/0.35n dV/dt_f 2.0/0.50n 2.0/0.75n 2.0/0.35nn | |**************************************************************************** |============================================================================== ****************************************************************************** ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: A weak driver can be added using the [Add Model] keyword. ****************************************************************************** ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: This proposal is based on a conversation with Bob Ross, Chris Reid, and Arpad Muranyi on March 11, 1998. ****************************************************************************** From owner-ibis Thu Apr 2 14:07:07 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [192.94.38.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA09685 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:07:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id OAA01359; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from bob by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id OAA20157; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:00:21 -0800 (PST) From: bobr@wv.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA07790; Thu, 2 Apr 98 14:00:26 PST Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 14:00:26 PST Message-Id: <9804022200.AA07790@bob> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS BIRD49 - Add Model Dynamic Clamps Dear IBIS folks: BIRD49 follows BIRD48 with a specific implementation for the Dynamic Clamp functionality of BIRD45.1. The [Add Model Spec] keyword is used to define the typ, min, and max threshold rules formated using 4 columns. The [GND Clamp] and [POWER Clamp] keywords replace the new keywords [Dynamic GND Clamp] and [Dynamic POWER Clamp] in BIRD45.1. The [GND Pulse Table] and [POWER Pulse Table] keyword are introduced. BIRD49 is derived from BIRD45.1 directly, but with changes corresponding to the Add Model construction methology and also in accordance with some comments on BIRD45.1. Bob Ross Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** BIRD ID#: 49 ISSUE TITLE: Add Model Dynamic Clamps REQUESTER: Neven Orhanovic, Bob Ross, Mentor G., Arpad Muranyi, Intel DATE SUBMITTED: 4/2/98 DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: Pending ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: A novel type of termination technique is used in today's integrated circuits. The termination consists of a pair of built in dynamic clamps whose V-I curves change with time. The clamp is switched "on" when needed and switched "off" otherwise (to conserve power). When the clamp is switched "on" its V-I curve provides more clamping than a regular static clamp and when it is turned "off" it behaves like a normal clamp. The "on" switching of the dynamic clamps can be triggered by an input signal crossing a triggering threshold or by some external clock. The "off" switching can be triggered by a built in timer or an external clock. ****************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: The dynamic clamp functionality is added in the new Section 6a: | Dynamic Clamp: | | This section introduces the dynamic clamp add model functionality. Two | new keywords [GND Pulse Table] and [Power Pulse Table] are defined. Then | and example is provided for a complete dynamic clamp model. | |============================================================================= | Keyword: [GND Pulse Table], [POWER Pulse Table] | Required: No | Description: Used to dynamically specify the offset voltage of added [GND | Clamp] and [POWER Clamp] tables when the [Model] adds the | dynamic clamp functionality. | | Usage Rules: Each [GND Pulse Table] and [POWER Pulse Table] keyword | introduces a table of time vs. voltage points that describe | the shape of an offset voltage from the [GND Clamp Reference] | voltage (or default ground) or the [POWER Clamp Reference] | voltage (or default [Voltage Range] voltage). These | time/voltage points must start and end at the same value. | | The table itself | consists of one column of time points, then three columns of | voltage points in the standard typ, min, and max format. The | four entries must be placed on a single line and must be | separated by at least one white space or tab character. All | four columns are required. However, data is only required in | the typical column. If minimum or maximum data is not | available, use the reserved word "NA". The first value in the | time column need not be '0'. Time values must increase as one | parses down the table. The waveform table can contain a | maximum of 100 data points. Only one [GND Pulse Table] and | one [POWER Pulse Table] are allowed per model. | | A pulse table must include the entire waveform; i.e., the | first entry (or entries) in a voltage column must be equal | to the last entry. Each table must contain at least two | entries. Thus, numerical values are required for the first | and last entries of any column containing numerical data. | | The [GND Pulse Table] and [POWER Pulse Table] keywords are used. | The subparameter under [Add Model Spec] for V_trigger_f checks | when the pulse at the die passes the trigger voltage. At that | time, the [GND Pulse Table] is invoked and the | dynamic [GND Clamp] shifts its reference by the specified | offset voltage. Similarily, the V_trigger_f subparameter gives | the voltage of the rising edge of the die at which the [POWER | Pulse Table] is invoked and the dynamic [POWER Clamp] table | begins shifting its reference by the specified offset voltage. | | A dynamic clamp is modeled by a V-I curve that is offset | (translated) along the voltage axis with the voltage waveform | given in the [GND Pulse Table] or [POWER Pulse Table] section | The resulting dynamic V-I table can be expressed as | | I = f( V - V_pulse(t) ), | | where V_pulse(t) is the offset voltage waveform described by | the pulse table and f(V) is the resulting V-I curve | of the clamp in its off state, corresponding to the data | given in the [GND Clamp] or [POWER Clamp] keyword. | | For example, once the voltage on the clamp crosses the | triggering threshold V_trigger_f, the [GND Pulse Table] data | is used to offset the V-I curve obtained | from the [GND Clamp] section. The dependence of the offset | pulse on the clamp voltage is illustrated below. | | V_trigger_f | | o o o o | o | o | o ------- | |o ^ | | o | V_trigger_f | | o v time | | o o--------------------> | | | | | | [GND Pulse Table] | | Clamp offset voltage vs. time. | | | | o o o o | | o o | | o o | | o o | | o o | | o o time | o o o o o o o o --------> | | ^ | |_ Pulse data is used from this moment on | to offset the V-I curve. | | The V_trigger_r and [POWER Pulse Table] operate in a similar manner. | However, offset voltage which fall into the normal operation region are | given by negative voltage values. | |------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | Example Dynamic_clamp Model with both dynamic GND and POWER clamps: | [Model] Dynamic_Clamp_1 Model_type Dynamic_clamp C_comp 0 0 0 | [Add Model Spec] | Subparameter typ min max | V_trigger_f 1.4 1.2 1.6 | Falling edge trigger V_trigger_r 3.6 2.9 4.3 | Rising edge trigger | [GND Pulse Table] | GND Clamp offset table | Time V(typ) V(min) V(max) | | 0 0 0 0 | 1e-9 0 0 0 | 2e-9 0.9 0.8 1.0 | 10e-9 0.9 0.8 1.0 | 11e-9 0 0 0 | [GND Clamp] | Table to be offset | | Voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) | -5.000 -3.300e+01 -3.000e+01 -3.500e+01 -4.000 -2.300e+01 -2.200e+01 -2.400e+01 -3.000 -1.300e+01 -1.200e+01 -1.400e+01 -2.000 -3.000e+00 -2.300e+00 -3.700e+00 -1.900 -2.100e+00 -1.500e+00 -2.800e+00 -1.800 -1.300e+00 -8.600e-01 -1.900e+00 -1.700 -6.800e-01 -4.000e-01 -1.100e+00 -1.600 -2.800e-01 -1.800e-01 -5.100e-01 -1.500 -1.200e-01 -9.800e-02 -1.800e-01 -1.400 -7.500e-02 -7.100e-02 -8.300e-02 -1.300 -5.750e-02 -5.700e-02 -5.900e-02 -1.200 -4.600e-02 -4.650e-02 -4.550e-02 -1.100 -3.550e-02 -3.700e-02 -3.450e-02 -1.000 -2.650e-02 -2.850e-02 -2.500e-02 -0.900 -1.850e-02 -2.100e-02 -1.650e-02 -0.800 -1.200e-02 -1.400e-02 -9.750e-03 -0.700 -6.700e-03 -8.800e-03 -4.700e-03 -0.600 -3.000e-03 -4.650e-03 -1.600e-03 -0.500 -9.450e-04 -1.950e-03 -3.650e-04 -0.400 -5.700e-05 -2.700e-04 -5.550e-06 -0.300 -1.200e-06 -1.200e-05 -5.500e-08 -0.200 -3.000e-08 -5.000e-07 0.000e+00 -0.100 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 0.000 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 5.000 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 | [POWER Pulse Table] | POWER Clamp offset table | | Time V(typ) V(min) V(max) | | 0 0 0 0 | 1e-9 0 0 0 | 2e-9 -0.9 -1.0 -0.8 | 10e-9 -0.9 -1.0 -0.8 | 11e-9 0 0 0 | [POWER Clamp] | Table to be offset | | Voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) | -5.000 1.150e+01 1.100e+01 1.150e+01 -4.000 7.800e+00 7.500e+00 8.150e+00 -3.000 4.350e+00 4.100e+00 4.700e+00 -2.000 1.100e+00 8.750e-01 1.300e+00 -1.900 8.000e-01 6.050e-01 1.000e+00 -1.800 5.300e-01 3.700e-01 7.250e-01 -1.700 2.900e-01 1.800e-01 4.500e-01 -1.600 1.200e-01 6.850e-02 2.200e-01 -1.500 3.650e-02 2.400e-02 6.900e-02 -1.400 1.200e-02 1.100e-02 1.600e-02 -1.300 6.300e-03 6.650e-03 6.100e-03 -1.200 4.200e-03 4.750e-03 3.650e-03 -1.100 2.900e-03 3.500e-03 2.350e-03 -1.000 1.900e-03 2.450e-03 1.400e-03 -0.900 1.150e-03 1.600e-03 7.100e-04 -0.800 5.500e-04 9.150e-04 2.600e-04 -0.700 1.200e-04 4.400e-04 5.600e-05 -0.600 5.400e-05 1.550e-04 1.200e-05 -0.500 1.350e-05 5.400e-05 1.300e-06 -0.400 8.650e-07 7.450e-06 4.950e-08 -0.300 6.250e-08 7.550e-07 0.000e+00 -0.200 0.000e+00 8.400e-08 0.000e+00 -0.100 0.000e+00 0.000e-08 0.000e+00 0.000 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 | |============================================================================== ****************************************************************************** ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: The proposal is designed to retain as much of the existing IBIS clamp syntax as possible. The dynamic clamp V-I curve tables follow all of the conventions of the existing V-I tables. The overall modeling approach is to decompose the dynamic clamp into its static and dynamic portions. The static part can be modeled by a regular clamp. The dynamic part is connected to the same rail voltage as its static part and modeled by a V-I curve that is shifted along the voltage axis by the offset voltage pulse. BIRD49 replaces the BIRD45.1 proposal of some new keywords shown below, but preserves the intended functionality. It also reponses to the comment that some of the V_trigger subparameters should be expressed in a typ-min-max format. The [Model Spec] keyword structure is proposed to do this. The replaced structure is below. |============================================================================== | Keywords: [Dynamic GND Clamp], [Dynamic POWER Clamp] | Required: No. | Description: Describes ground and power clamps that are switched on and off | dynamically. | | Subparameters: V_trigger, V_trigger_min, V_trigger_max | | Usage Rules: The [Dynamic GND Clamp] and [Dynamic PWR Clamp] specifications | contain three subparameters and two keywords. The subparameters | (V_trigger, V_trigger_min, V_trigger_max) specify the threshold | clamp voltage value that causes the clamp to begin switching | from "off" to "on" according to the [Pulse Table] section. | These values correspond to the typical, weak (slow), and strong | (fast) situations. The [Pulse Table] section describes the | switching characteristics of the dynamic clamp, and the [Clamp | Table] section gives the V-I table of the clamp in its "off" | state. This data is used as follows. | | A dynamic clamp is modeled by a V-I curve that is offset | (translated) along the voltage axis with the voltage waveform | given in the [Pulse Table] section. The resulting dynamic V-I | curve can be expressed as | | I = f( V - V_pulse(t) ), | | where V_pulse(t) is the offset voltage waveform described by | the [Pulse Table] section and f(V) is the resulting V-I curve | of the clamp in its off state, corresponding to the data | given in the [Clamp Table] section. The [Clamp Table] data | follows the same format and rules as the V-I curve data of | the corresponding regular ground or power clamp ([GND Clamp], | [POWER Clamp]). The [Pulse Table] section describes the offset | voltage waveform and uses the same format as the [Rising | Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] sections in driver models. | | Once the voltage on the clamp crosses the triggering threshold, | the [Pulse Table] data is used to offset the V-I curve obtained | from the [Clamp Table] section. The dependence of the offset | pulse on the clamp voltage is illustrated below. | | | Clamp voltage vs. time. | | o o o o | o | o | o ------- | o| ^ | o | | V_trigger | o | v time | o o | ------------------------> | | | | | | | | Clamp offset voltage vs. time. | | | | o o o o | | o o | | o o | | o o o o o | | o o | | o o time | o o o o o o o o --------> | | ^ | |_ Pulse data is used from this moment on | to offset the V-I curve. | | |------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | Example: | [Dynamic GND Clamp] | V_trigger = 1.4V V_trigger_min = 1.2V V_trigger_max = 1.6V | [Pulse Table] | | Time V(typ) V(min) V(max) | | 0 0 0 0 | 1e-9 0 0 0 | 2e-9 0.9 0.8 1.0 | 10e-9 0.9 0.8 1.0 | 11e-9 0 0 0 | [Clamp Table] | | Voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) | -5.000 -3.300e+01 -3.000e+01 -3.500e+01 -4.000 -2.300e+01 -2.200e+01 -2.400e+01 -3.000 -1.300e+01 -1.200e+01 -1.400e+01 -2.000 -3.000e+00 -2.300e+00 -3.700e+00 -1.900 -2.100e+00 -1.500e+00 -2.800e+00 -1.800 -1.300e+00 -8.600e-01 -1.900e+00 -1.700 -6.800e-01 -4.000e-01 -1.100e+00 -1.600 -2.800e-01 -1.800e-01 -5.100e-01 -1.500 -1.200e-01 -9.800e-02 -1.800e-01 -1.400 -7.500e-02 -7.100e-02 -8.300e-02 -1.300 -5.750e-02 -5.700e-02 -5.900e-02 -1.200 -4.600e-02 -4.650e-02 -4.550e-02 -1.100 -3.550e-02 -3.700e-02 -3.450e-02 -1.000 -2.650e-02 -2.850e-02 -2.500e-02 -0.900 -1.850e-02 -2.100e-02 -1.650e-02 -0.800 -1.200e-02 -1.400e-02 -9.750e-03 -0.700 -6.700e-03 -8.800e-03 -4.700e-03 -0.600 -3.000e-03 -4.650e-03 -1.600e-03 -0.500 -9.450e-04 -1.950e-03 -3.650e-04 -0.400 -5.700e-05 -2.700e-04 -5.550e-06 -0.300 -1.200e-06 -1.200e-05 -5.500e-08 -0.200 -3.000e-08 -5.000e-07 0.000e+00 -0.100 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 0.000 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 5.000 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 | | [Dynamic POWER Clamp] | V_trigger = 3.6V V_trigger_min = 3.8V V_trigger_max = 3.4V | [Pulse Table] | | Time V(typ) V(min) V(max) | | 0 0 0 0 | 1e-9 0 0 0 | 2e-9 -0.9 -1.0 -0.8 | 10e-9 -0.9 -1.0 -0.8 | 11e-9 0 0 0 | [Clamp Table] | | Voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) | -5.000 1.150e+01 1.100e+01 1.150e+01 -4.000 7.800e+00 7.500e+00 8.150e+00 -3.000 4.350e+00 4.100e+00 4.700e+00 -2.000 1.100e+00 8.750e-01 1.300e+00 -1.900 8.000e-01 6.050e-01 1.000e+00 -1.800 5.300e-01 3.700e-01 7.250e-01 -1.700 2.900e-01 1.800e-01 4.500e-01 -1.600 1.200e-01 6.850e-02 2.200e-01 -1.500 3.650e-02 2.400e-02 6.900e-02 -1.400 1.200e-02 1.100e-02 1.600e-02 -1.300 6.300e-03 6.650e-03 6.100e-03 -1.200 4.200e-03 4.750e-03 3.650e-03 -1.100 2.900e-03 3.500e-03 2.350e-03 -1.000 1.900e-03 2.450e-03 1.400e-03 -0.900 1.150e-03 1.600e-03 7.100e-04 -0.800 5.500e-04 9.150e-04 2.600e-04 -0.700 1.200e-04 4.400e-04 5.600e-05 -0.600 5.400e-05 1.550e-04 1.200e-05 -0.500 1.350e-05 5.400e-05 1.300e-06 -0.400 8.650e-07 7.450e-06 4.950e-08 -0.300 6.250e-08 7.550e-07 0.000e+00 -0.200 0.000e+00 8.400e-08 0.000e+00 -0.100 0.000e+00 0.000e-08 0.000e+00 0.000 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 0.000e+00 | |============================================================================== ****************************************************************************** ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: Based on a conversation with Arpad Muranyi on 11/14/97. Modified per a discussion with Bob Ross, Chris Reid and Arpad Muranyi on March 11, 1998. ****************************************************************************** From owner-ibis Fri Apr 3 11:36:56 1998 Received: from tron.calmicro.com ([207.124.218.194]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA29608 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from junior.calmicro.com by tron.calmicro.com with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA07928; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:42:25 -0800 Received: from Calmicro-Message_Server by calmicro.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:31:53 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:31:32 -0800 From: John Nemec To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS Models Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline I am looking for a consultant who could generate an IBIS model of a Schottky diode network for use in clamping bus over and undershoots. We have an HSPICE model and characterization data. John Nemec Director of Applications California Micro Devices From owner-ibis Tue Apr 7 12:15:40 1998 Received: from ganymede.or.intel.com (ganymede.or.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA24665 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (ichips-jf.jf.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ganymede.or.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20264 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xtg801 (xtg801.pdx.intel.com [134.134.120.169]) by ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06311 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips.intel.com by xtg801 (8.8.8/WW2.1 (Jones Farm)) id MAA10630; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804071912.MAA10630@xtg801> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes 4/3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:12:31 -0700 From: Stephen Peters DATE: 4/7/98 SUBJECT: 4/3/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP (Martin Freedman) Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram* Cadence Design (& UniCAD) C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway, Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis Cypress (Bruce Wenniger) Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu*, Greg Edlund, Bob Haller Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory High Design Technology Razvan Ene HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora* Incases Olaf Rethmeier*, Scott Jacobson, Werner Rissiek Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern, Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan Columbia, SC (formerly NCR) Dave Moxley Mentor Graphics (Zeelan, Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman, Interconnectix, etc.) Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot, Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, Nevin Orhanovic* Mitsubishi Hoang Nguyen, Tam Cao Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie, Ikchang Song North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda (NESA) NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler, Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin*, Peter Forstner Thomson-CSF Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic, Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel, Jean Lefebvre Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh, Gary Mandel VeriBest Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions* Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998: Actel Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin Aerospatiale Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.) John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau, Daniel Peron ALS Design Yves Mouquet Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apple Fred Floresca, Danny Itani Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Avanti Nik Bannov CERN Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, Rudi Zurbroken Compaq Shariq Rahma EIA Patti Rusher* EMC Fawn Engelmann ENST, Paris Jean-Jacques Charlot European CAD Standardization Adam Morawiec Intitiative (ECSI) Fairchild Semiconductor Peter LaFlamme H.A.S Electronics Haruny Said Intracon Design Ltd. Derek Laidlaw Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen Scottish Electronics Robert Easson Manufacturing Center (SEMC) Seagate Vanessa Howard SGS-Thomson Philippe Lefevre Siemens Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez, Gil Russell Symmetry Andy Hughes Tektronix Nassrin Ghahyasi Ultratest International Chris O'Connor Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode April 24, 1998 (916) 356-9200 5-32911 6784438 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher does not have the report, but she does not know of any new members. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The AR's will be discussed at the meeting. No corrections were noted on the previous two sets of meeting Minutes. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross indicated that he still plans the Majordomo conversion when he has time. Bob stated that Syed Huq has requested roster updates. Arpad Muranyi asked if they can still be given, and Bob said that they can be provided at any time. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross noted that the article "Free Board Tools Spun for Web" in the Electronic Engineering Times, March 30, 1998, pg. 92 discusses the free IBIS model development utility from Cadence. Bob also reported that two side-bar articles in Electronic Engineering Times, "Crosstalk-analysis Tools Roll at PCB Confab" and "Designers Clamor for Better IBIS Models" are on pages 73 and 74 in the March 23, 1998 issue both mention IBIS. Finally, Bob reported that Arpad Muranyi is teaching a session on "Signal Integrity in High-Speed CMOS Circuits" and is including IBIS Model discussion in a tutorial short course: Circuit Simulation and Signal Integrity in Micro electronic Circuits and Systems from the University of Arizona in Scottsdale, Arizona, May 4-6, 1998. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross noted that Cadence has announced its free s2ibis development utility and viewer and it is downloadable the location below (click on free software): http://www.cadence.com/software/pcb_info.html It is a very large .zip file. The utility is configured with a windows interface to run on Solaris OS machines. Bob noted that TI clock driver IBIS models now exist at: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/msp/cdc/app_supp.htm Bob reported that the Motorola URL mentioned by Matthew Flora at the last meeting has entries for several technologies. Currently IBIS models exist for the LCX technology. Matthew had submitted the link later as: http://mot2.indirect.com/models/bin/logic_ic.html The IBIS models that should be stored in Word Format (.doc) which then can be converted to a text format as a .ibs file. If you try to store the files directly as text files, they will appear to be corrupted with binary characters. Bob noted that Jon Powell restored the had IBIS models page link from the IBIS home page which had inadvertently been deleted by the web page provider. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Syed Huq on compressing the ibischk executables (Discussed in the ibischk2.115 discussion) Bob Ross on the Design Automation Conference Summit meeting. (Not directly discussed) INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher still has not heard on the status. It may not be resolved until the next IEC meeting in September. - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Raj Raghuram reported that he has a preliminary copy of the Version 1.1 English translation. Bob Ross reported that Hideki Fukuda still expects to create a web site soon which will contain this document and other information for downloading. - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Jean-Claude Perrin, Chair of the task force gave this report. Jean-Claude first noted that the official minutes of the February 27, 1998 meeting had pages 2 and 3 interchanged. A meeting was held on March 30, 1998. Its purpose was to refine the proposal to be submitted to the next IEC meeting in September, 1998. The proposal still contains an internal equivalent model square pulse generator representing a clock along with some internal coupling impedances to the pins/power supplies of the device. The plan is to follow the IBIS model conventions but be formatted in a separate file such with a .emc extension. However, the extensions would be compatible with the corresponding .ibs Component in the IBIS file. Jean-Claude briefly covered additional details such as capacitance on supplies, through currents, and variable coupling impedances. Jean-Claude asked whether the IBIS format supports the short circuit current between power rails that may exist when output devices change state. Bob Ross reported that the IBIS format only supports this as a consequence of whatever algorithm is employed during transition. BIRD42.3, still under consideration, actually can be used to format such currents. So EMC extensions could also be a consideration for supporting BIRD42.3 within the .ibs or possibly the .emc format. Jean-Claude indicated that the task force is preparing a revision for submission and will be sending a copy to Bob. Bob questioned whether this copy could be submitted to the IBIS reflector for general review and comments, and Jean-Claude affirmed that this was permitted. (Note: so Bob will plan to make the document available for review whenever it is received - either by email or by uploading it in an area where interested people can download it for review. Jean-Claude will welcome comments.) - JC-16B - Bob Ross started the discussion by indicating that a joint IBIS Summit meeting in December, 1998 with the JEDEC JC-16B sub-committee had been proposed at the March 13, 1998 IBIS Open Forum. This meeting would be held in place of the DesignCon IBIS Summit meeting planned for January, 1999. Bob indicated that he supported holding a joint meeting. However, Bob also felt the DesignCon IBIS Summit Meeting was valuable and should not be dropped. D.C. Sessions commented that he would have liked to see more "chalk-board" issue resolution at the IBIS Summit meeting rather than just presentations. Bob responded that this has occurred in the past. The format of the IBIS Summit meetings are not fixed. Some past IBIS Summit meetings have been held with topics devoted to issues and have also involved some small sub-group meetings beforehand to develop and present some agreed upon proposals. Bob questioned D.C. on what he had in mind for the joint meeting - its purpose and how it would be structured. For example, do the IBIS folks participate in the JC-16B meeting, and the JC-16B folks participate in the IBIS Summit as observers? D.C. mentioned that what he had in mind was to co-locate a meeting where it was convenient for some cross-fertilization particularly between the device developer members of the JC-16B committee and the EDA tool developer members of the IBIS Open Forum. Bob and others felt that this was a good reason to hold such a meeting. Bob also stated that the meeting did not have to be structured on just presentations. The IBIS Summit Meeting might focus on a few application topics of mutual interest. One such topic might be IBIS models for SSTL (Series Stub Terminated Logic) - a topic originating from JC-16B. (Other topics could included IBIS models for other technologies considered by JC-16B.) Bob asked for the dates, and Patti Rusher indicated that she has already booked hotel and conference space in San Diego for the December 7-9, 1998 time frame for JEDEC. The JC-16B meeting typically covers one-half day and a JC-42 meeting on Memories also typically covers one-half day and is attended by many JC-16B members. These occur typically on Tuesday, so the plan is to add a room reservation for the an IBIS Summit Meeting the following day. Patti indicated that She will reserve Wednesday, December 9, 1998. (Note after the meeting - the dates were not clear, but the intent is to hold the IBIS Summit meeting the day after the JC-16B and JC-42 meetings.) Bob asked who was going to pay for this. Patti indicated that this could come out of the EIA IBIS funds. Bob also indicated that others might want to serve as sponsor or co-sponsor hosts. In particular, Viewlogic might be interested since the meeting is being held nearby. Chris Rokusek will check if Viewlogic is interested. IBIS LOGO CHANGE Bob Ross introduced the topic by noting that the EIA (Electronic Industries Association) has now changed its historical lightning-bold circular logo to a new rectangular logo, and EIA now stands for Electronic Industries Alliance. Patti Rusher indicated that this change was due to an expanded scope of EIA incorporating more organizations under the EIA umbrella. As indicated from the revised Web page - still under revision, EIA now consists of the following organizations: Consumer Electronics Manufactures Association (CEMA), Electronic Components, Assemblies Equipment & Supplies Association (ECA), Telecommunications Industry Association (TIA), Electronic Information Group (EIG) - where Patti is a director and under which the IBIS Open Forum and other organizations are positioned, Government Electronics & Information Technology Association (GEIA), JEDEC Solid State Products Technology Division, and Electronic Industries Foundation (EIF). Since the old EIA logo is embedded within the IBIS Spoken Here!! logo (or placard), the IBIS logo is now retired. Patti wants to work with a graphics artist to develop quickly a new IBIS logo in time for the Design Automation Conference. Bob and others indicated that they liked the original logo with the scarlet IBIS birds, the IBIS Spoken Here!! and the EIA logo within. However the square logo does not fit as well. So the committee is open to considering changes. A general discussion occurred. Bob questioned whether the EIA logo included a black outline, and Patti indicated no. Patti indicated that a few other organization are also revising their logos. Stephen Peters expressed interest in reviewing logo designs. So Bob formed a committee consisting of the IBIS officers (Stephen Peters as the main contact, and Syed Huq, Jon Powell, and Bob) to review logo ideas.) Patti would go ahead and get ideas from the graphics artist. Bob also stated that anyone else interested is welcome to join or submit logo ideas. Bob noted that he will also ask people who are using the old logo to start phasing them out. IBIS EAST USERS GROUP ACTIVITIES Bob reported that Greg Edlund issued the minutes on the ibis-users reflector for the Accuracy sub-group meeting held on March 26, 1998. The next Accuracy sub-group meeting is scheduled on Thursday, April 30, 2998. Bob also expects the minutes of the March 19, 1998 IBIS (East) Users Group to be issued soon. EDITING COMMITTEE Bob Ross indicated that he upload an UNOFFICIAL IBIS ver3_1b.ibs document on eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip. It contained only minor editorial revisions and the correction to [End Board Description] nomenclature. Later under the BIRD48 discussion, Chris Rokusek thought it would be helpful to have a tree diagram to show the context of the IBIS keywords and subparameters. Bob indicated that one already existed under the wip directory. This had been originally contributed by Atsushi Ogawa of NEC Corporation, who is serving as Vice-Chair of the EIAJ III sub-group. Bob had recently updated the tree diagram to put [Model Selector] at the top level along with [Component] and [Model] within a file in response to a comment from Atul Agarwal, who is implementing the ibischk3 parser. So, tree3_0a.txt is now current. The BNF AR remains. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA Bob Ross indicated no progress. AR - Andy Ingraham to issue BIRD44.1 with the changes and extensions noted in the March 13, 1998 IBIS Open Forum meeting minutes. IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS Syed Huq indicated that he had problems downloading the ibischk2+ executables using Netscape since Netscape would try to execute rather than save the executables. (This is not a problem using the anonymous FTP access.) Syed proposed that the executables be compressed. D.C. Sessions provided two Netscape workarounds: (1) click Shift, and left key on mouse before doing the save, and (2) change the Options - General Preference - Helpers to take out any .exe helper application. Bob Ross and others indicated that regardless of these solutions, it probably was more efficient to put just compressed files that were intended for downloading - .Z or .gz for Unix, and .zip for DOS Windows applications. This would not be difficult for the existing ibischk2+ executables. So Bob will plan to do this. As separate item, Bob asked Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek to continue maintaining the ibischk2+ source code. In particular, keep putting in the changes associated with the approved BUGs that are being discovered and resolved in the ibischk3 project that relate to ibischk2_. Matthew and Chris agreed to continue doing this in preparation for a future ibischk2+ Version 2.1.16 release. BUG26 - Parser Crashes when Calling [Package Model] Bob Ross reported that Atul Agarwal had issued BUG26 against ibischk2+ while developing ibischk3, and Atul also provide the simple fix. Bob classified this as Severe, High, Open, and intends that this fix be rolled into ibischk2.1.16. BUG25 - Keyword as First Word in [Notes] Causes Error Bob Ross introduced BUG25 which was submitted by Arpad Muranyi. A discussion followed as to whether this was really an error that could be fixed by documenting a limitation, or whether the ibischk2+ (and ibischk3) parser needed to be changed. Arpad Muranyi suggested a work around of putting quotes around keywords that appear as the first word in a line under the [Notes] keyword. Bob indicated that the problem applies to any keyword such as [Copyright] which accepts multiple lines of text information. D.C. Sessions favored documenting this as a BUG and considering a fix. While BUG25 could be fixed, Bob noted that the error detection itself was a source of ambiguity since a keyword not properly aligned to column 1 after the [Notes] text would then be "correctly" included within the notes text. Only after subsequent keyword checking would an error of a missing required keyword be detected. Bob classified BUG25 as ANNOYING, LOW, OPEN, and will investigate with Atul Agarwal on a low priority basis a possible fix. However, the alternative is still open - provide a documented limitation on using bracketed keywords as the first word in text block lines. VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT Atul Agarwal delivered Beta Versions 3.0.1 of the ibischk3 and ebdchk3 parsers and Matthew Flora distributed on March 30, 1998 the source code to the twelve companies supporting the development. Some additional test cases and test case results along with Windows DOS executables are included. Stephen Peters will investigate if any .ebd test cases exist. Everyone is welcome to try the parsers and to report back on any problems. Bob Ross also needs to check on the status of the invoices that have been issued. COOKBOOK Stephen Peters reports that there is progress on the Cookbook project. As previously reported, individuals from the IBIS East Users group are writing the testing and validation section. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Bob Ross asked Matthew Flora whether anyone has approached him regarding reviewing IBIS models. Matthew indicated no. The model review committee has been published in previous minutes. Bob will now just list Matthews address as the contact for IBIS models review: Matthew Flora, HyperLynx mbflora@hyperlynx.com D.C. Sessions is still waiting for Bob to provide an FTP site to upload VLSI IBIS models for review. Per VLSI policy, individuals who are want to review VLSI IBIS models must contact D.C. directly with a letterhead letter stating the request. S2IBIS2 Matthew Flora reported that he had a question concerning the recently released s2ibis2 for NT. Matthew was given the source code to test the NT implementation. Bob Ross suggested Matthew work directly with SiQual concerning how it can be released. One issue is that the examples exist in a different file and are not included. S2IBIS2 BUG1 Bob Ross reported that BUG1 was issued by Bernhard Unger dealing with the problem that the HSPICE examples do not work. Bob indicated that this was a known problem and was actually the subject of IBIS reflector discussions a while ago. Suggestions regarding HSPICE convergence and adding some parasitic resistance to the clamping structures were provided. Bob classified BUG1 as ANNOYING, LOW, OPEN. The s2iibs2 Version 1.1 seems to work with real IBIS models. However, anyone who is interested in providing replacement HSPICE examples is welcome to contribute them. The committee itself is too involved in other activities to develop new examples at this time. BIRD47 - REMOVE PIN NAME AS A SUBPARAMETER OF THE [Pin List] KEYWORD. Bob Ross introduced BIRD47 by stating that it removed the technical inconsistency associated with the pin_name subparameter defined under the [Pin List] keyword in the Electrical Board Description section. BIRD47 removes the pin_name subparameter and also moves the signal_name subparameter to the keyword line in a manner consistent with other pin-related keywords. The sense of the committee at the March 13, 1998 meeting was to approve BIRD47. The ebdchk3 parser should already use the BIRD47 syntax. Bob called for a vote. BIRD47 was approved unanimously with one abstention based on lack of knowledge. BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS Bob Ross indicated that we need to move on BIRD42.3. The original BIRD42 was introduced prior to the IBIS Version 3.0 ratification meeting in June, 1997. There were issues associated with BIRD42 and IBIS Version 3.0 was issued with the understanding that BIRD42 could be considered further and included in IBIS Version 3.1. While there has been little activity on BIRD42.3, it was discussed during both the DesignCon IBIS Summit on January 26, 1998 and the European IBIS Summit on February 26, 1998. Also, as previously mentioned, BIRD42.3 may relate to some EMC concerns. BIRD42.3 will be scheduled for a discussion at a later meeting. BIRD46.1 - RELAXATION OF SOME IBIS FILE NAME RESTRICTIONS Since BIRD46.1 has not been issued, Bob Ross deferred the discussion. AR - Matthew Flora issue BIRD46.1 to include references to the .pkg file and .ebd file and to change the limitation from 64 total characters to a limit of 20 characters and delete the references to allowing the period "." character. BIRD48 - ADD MODEL Bob Ross presented the background concerning BIRD48, BIRD49, and BIRD50. At the IBIS Version 3.0 ratification meeting in June, 1997, the committee left the door open for adding to IBIS Version 3.1 a dynamic clamp feature. BIRD45 and BIRD45.1 proposed dynamic clamps. In response to a comment, we wanted to investigate further whether the [Driver Schedule] keyword could be used for some added functionality. On March 11, 1998, Bob met with Arpad Muranyi and Chris Reid to do this investigation based on the intended functionality. After looking at some of the aspects, the group moved toward a different, more general approach. This approach allows future extensions and also allows reusing some of the existing IBIS keywords in a parent-child relationship that is consistent actual EDA tool implementation methodologies. Bob then took the action item of producing the BIRDs that were needed for this functionality. Based on some subsequent considerations, Bob just introduced BIRD48 for [Add Model] to allow calling other [Model]s only if they are of specific Model_types. The two Model_types are Dynamic_clamp and Bus_hold described in BIRD49 and BIRD50, respectively. Furthermore, Bob opted to introduce the [Add Model Spec] keyword to describe subparameters associated with these added models. Normally the subparameters information is based on internal knowledge that is not available in the data sheets. So Bob rejected using the existing [Model Spec] keyword for this purpose. Under [Add Model Spec], subparameters V_trigger_r and V_trigger_f describing the rising and falling edge trigger voltages are introduced. The format allows for independent typo-min-max column entries. Bob indicated that the preparation of BIRD48, BIRD49, and BIRD50 evolved while being written. He did introduce these BIRDs on Thursday, April 2, 1998, but expected to do more work on them. The notation is completely open at this time. Also, there is still some unresolved functionality that needs to be considered. BIRD49 - ADD MODEL DYNAMIC CLAMPS Bob Ross introduced BIRD49 to replace BIRD45.1. Along with the [Add Model] call, Dynamic_clamp Model_type, the [Add Model Spec] trigger voltages, BIRD49 introduces the [POWER Pulse Table] and [GND Pulse Table] to describe the dynamic clamp shifting as a function of time. Unlike the BIRD45.1 approach, BIRD49 reuses the [GND Clamp] and [POWER Clamp] keywords. BIRD49 covers the same functionality as BIRD45.1 plus uses the typ-min-max trigger voltages that had been discussed as an improvement to BIRD45.1. A complete example is provided. BIRD50 - ADD MODEL BUS HOLD Bob Ross introduced BIRD50. It introduced only the Model_type Bus_hold. Output keywords for [Pullup], [Pulldown], [Ramp], and even the [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] tables could be used. While positioned as contributing to bus hold modeling, the real reason was to deal with some new latching mechanism architectures that are now being implemented. An example is provided showing the Bus hold implementation. Chris Rokusek commented that the [Add Model Spec] could be moved to the same location as the [Add Model] keyword since it is associated with information at the parent model level. Bob responded that this might be a good idea, but it would then require independent trigger voltages for each application. The trigger voltages were really a function of the added model features. BIRD45.1 - DYNAMIC CLAMPS Because BIRD48 and BIRD49 are intended to replace BIRD45.1, Bob Ross will schedule a formal vote on the rejection of BIRD45.1 at the next meeting. TECHNICAL ISSUES ON THE IBIS REFLECTOR In the few minutes that remained, Bob Ross indicated that there has been good reflector discussion, both on the Signal Integrity reflector and the IBIS reflectors. Bob also has three new issues he quickly summarized: (1) We may need to add the 3-state_ECL Model_type. There exists several such devices, and Bob cited the National Semiconductor 100316, a low power quad differential line driver with cut-off, as one ECL 3-state example. (2) We may need to consider extending the [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] fixture loads to include a differential resistor. Some technologies appear to require the physical or Spice differential connection for proper extraction of IBIS information. (3) Based on an e-mail from Jean-Christophe Pautrat (Hewlett Packard, France) on the IBIS reflector, we may need to consider extending the timing test load information and Vmeas into the typ-min-max format under the [Model Spec] keyword. For example, the APG max timings are specified with Cref = 10 pF and min timings are specified with Cref = 0 pf. Bob felt that we currently could use only one of the Cref values, and extract a delta time value to modify the times for the other Cref setting. However, all data values would need to be adjusted - a potentially tedious process. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting is on Friday, April 24, 1998, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. BIRD45.1 and BIRD46.1 are scheduled for votes. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentorg.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ============================================================================== From owner-ibis Wed Apr 8 18:14:51 1998 Received: from ns1.digital.com.sg (ns1.digital.com.sg [203.127.158.130]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA22007 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hgobh1.hgo.dec.com (hgobh1.hgo.dec.com [16.169.80.250]) by ns1.digital.com.sg (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0c) with SMTP id JAA06549 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:09:48 +0800 (SST) Received: by hgobh1.hgo.dec.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.35) id <01BD6397.8701DE20@hgobh1.hgo.dec.com>; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:11:49 +0800 Message-ID: From: John Lin - TAO To: "'ibis'" Cc: Dc Liu , Hw Cheng , Jj Leu , Steve Ting Subject: How to do correlation with two extra Rising/Falling waveforms? Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:08:01 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.35 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi IBIS fans, In the IBIS Forum's I/O BUFFER MODELING COOKBOOK, page 12, there is a table - "Recommended Load Circuits and Waveforms for V/T Data Extraction." In the table, there are 4 waveforms to extract V/T data for [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] for a standard push/pull CMOS type buffer. I/O buffer+ R-fixture+V_fixture. For falling edge, two waveforms are obtained based on (1) V_fixture=0, and (2) V_fixture=VCC. For rising edge, two waveforms are gathered based on (3) V_fixture=0, and (4) V_fixture=VCC. The cookbook uses (2) and (3) to extract data in [Ramp] and says (1) and (4) are for correlation. How is the correlation done? What information can be extracted from (1) and (4)? Inside the Quad Design XTK manual, the (1) and (4) can be used to generate Ground Bounce Model. How? Any inputs from you are appreciated. Thanks, JOHNLIN CAE Engineer of EDA Department Digital Equipment Corp. Taiwan Branch Email: Linjohn@mail.dec.com TEL: 1-886-3-3900000 ext. 2152 From owner-ibis Fri Apr 17 13:11:26 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [192.94.38.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA20973 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id NAA20290; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bob by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id NAA13866; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:07:49 -0700 (PDT) From: bobr@wv.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA19962; Fri, 17 Apr 98 13:08:01 PDT Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 13:08:01 PDT Message-Id: <9804172008.AA19962@bob> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS AGENDA 4/24/98 IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 4/24/98 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode (916) 356-9200 5-32911 6784438 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Ross - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Ross - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Rusher - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Peters - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Powell, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:25 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress Rusher/Ross - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation Perrin - JC-16B Sessions IBIS Logo Change Rusher/Ross IBIS (East) Users Group Meetings Edlund Editing Committee Ross/Peters BIRD44 - Interpretation of Min/Max/Weak/Strong Data Ross IBISCHK2+ (Ver 2.115) PROGRESS Flora/Rokusek BUG27 - Line with 80 Spaces Cause Crash Flora Version 3.1 Parser Development Ross/Peters - Billing - Tests & Samples Cookbook Status Peters IBIS Model Review Committee Flora New Administrative Issues All 9:15 Technical Discussion BIRD42.3 - Modeling Current Waveforms Kumar/Ross BIRD48 - Add Model Orhanovic/Muranyi/Ross BIRD49 - Add Model Dynamic Clamps Orhanovic/Muranyi/Ross BIRD50 - Add Model Bus Hold Orhanovic/Muranyi/Ross BIRD45.1 - Dynamic Clamps Orhanovic/Muranyi/Ross (Consider Replacement with BIRD48, BIRD49, BIRD50) Vote BIRD46.1 - Relaxation of Some IBIS Model File Name Flora Restrictions Some Technical Issues on IBIS Reflector Ross New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Ross 9:55 Sign Off From owner-ibis Thu Apr 23 10:19:04 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [192.94.38.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA26914 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id KAA13691; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bob by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id KAA09854; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:15:17 -0700 (PDT) From: bobr@wv.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA26735; Thu, 23 Apr 98 10:15:10 PDT Date: Thu, 23 Apr 98 10:15:10 PDT Message-Id: <9804231715.AA26735@bob> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: Forwarded: Fwd: ibis logo To All: Five new IBIS LOGO designs are available for viewing in preparation for the IBIS meeting discussion on Friday, April 24, 1998. Comments are welcome. Bob Ross Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:02:24 -0500 From: Patti Rusher To: bob_ross Subject: Fwd: ibis logo Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:32:34 -0500 From: Deanna Sikora To: Pattir@gw.eia.org Subject: ibis logo Patti - Per your request, the IBIS logos are online for the members to view and vote on. The URL is www.eia.org/eig/ibis/logo.htm. There are five logos to choose from. Hopefully one will work. D. Sikora From owner-ibis Thu Apr 23 11:25:38 1998 Received: from ganymede.or.intel.com (ganymede.or.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA27870 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orsmsx27.INTEL.COM (orsmsx27.jf.intel.com [192.168.74.27]) by ganymede.or.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21448 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804231835.LAA21448@ganymede.or.intel.com> Received: by orsmsx27.jf.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:22:33 -0700 From: "Hobbs, Will" To: "ibis@eda.org " , "bobr@wv.mentorg.com " Subject: RE: Forwarded: Fwd: ibis logo Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:21:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Bob, I suspect voting on the open forum reflector will clog up the mail boxes, so do you have a proposed process for voting? Or would you like the comments to be public? Just to clog up the reflector a bit, here are my comments: I vote for #3, as both IBIS and EIA are clear, and it is well balanced and aesthetically pleasing. Will To All: Five new IBIS LOGO designs are available for viewing in preparation for the IBIS meeting discussion on Friday, April 24, 1998. Comments are welcome. Bob Ross Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:02:24 -0500 From: Patti Rusher To: bob_ross Subject: Fwd: ibis logo Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:32:34 -0500 From: Deanna Sikora To: Pattir@gw.eia.org Subject: ibis logo Patti - Per your request, the IBIS logos are online for the members to view and vote on. The URL is www.eia.org/eig/ibis/logo.htm. There are five logos to choose from. Hopefully one will work. D. Sikora From owner-ibis Thu Apr 23 12:49:27 1998 Received: from mail.nwlink.com (mail.nwlink.com [209.20.130.40]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA29063 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kellee@localhost) by mail.nwlink.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13413; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980423124630.00eb4100@mail.nwlink.com> X-Sender: kellee@mail.nwlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:46:30 -0700 To: ibis@eda.org From: Kellee Crisafulli Subject: ibis logo In-Reply-To: <199804231835.LAA21448@ganymede.or.intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Bob, all, Just to clog up the reflector a bit more: I vote for #3 IF EIA and IBIS switch places. The EIA is far to dominant and IBIS is almost lost. My number 2 pick is #5. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have a great day... Kellee Crisafulli at HyperLynx kellee@hyperlynx.com http://www.hyperlynx.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ibis Thu Apr 23 13:49:57 1998 Received: from relayhost.vlsi.com (relayhost.vlsi.com [134.27.20.23]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA29984 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:49:57 -0700 (PDT) From: harish.patel@tempe.vlsi.com Received: (from nobody@localhost) by relayhost.vlsi.com (8.6.12/Hub-Perlotto/050895) id NAA13685; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:46:23 -0700 Received: from unknown(134.27.128.1) by tweety via smap (V2.0) id xma013657; Thu, 23 Apr 98 13:45:50 -0700 Received: from pcdmail.tempe.vlsi.com (hole.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.11]) by relayhost.tempe.vlsi.com (8.6.9/Hub-Perlotto/101195) with ESMTP id NAA24124; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:45:48 -0700 Received: from mardi (mardi.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.133.22]) by pcdmail.tempe.vlsi.com (8.6.9/Hub-Perlotto/032095) with ESMTP id NAA14035; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:45:48 -0700 Received: by mardi id NAA09471; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:45:47 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:45:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199804232045.NAA09471@mardi> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: Re: Forwarded: Fwd: ibis logo Cc: bobr@wv.mentorg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: Zx1l/PBahyOsrrxlE0IhLg== Hello Bob and all, My picks for IBIS logo is --> #1 (First choice) #5 (Second choice) From owner-ibis Thu Apr 23 14:26:04 1998 Received: from fwext.micron.com (fwext.micron.com [204.134.212.40]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA00585 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from admin-srv21.micron.com by fwext.micron.com via smtpd (for server.eda.org [198.31.14.7]) with SMTP; 23 Apr 1998 21:22:59 UT Received: from ntxchange01.micron.com (ntxchange01.micron.com [137.201.105.67]) by admin-srv21.micron.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28578; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:22:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ntxchange01.micron.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2P5KNNMW>; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:22:54 -0600 Message-ID: From: rsreddy To: "'bobr@wv.mentorg.com'" , ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: Forwarded: Fwd: ibis logo Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:22:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Hi, I like logo #3 and logo# 5 also looks good. Either one is fine with me. Rathna Reddy Sr design/simulation specialist One Chisholm Trail Suite 3200 Round Rock, Texas 78681 Ph:(512)248-5107 Fax (512)248-5190 Email:rsreddy@micron.com -----Original Message----- From: bobr@wv.mentorg.com [SMTP:bobr@wv.mentorg.com] Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 12:15 PM To: ibis@eda.org Subject: Forwarded: Fwd: ibis logo To All: Five new IBIS LOGO designs are available for viewing in preparation for the IBIS meeting discussion on Friday, April 24, 1998. Comments are welcome. Bob Ross Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:02:24 -0500 From: Patti Rusher To: bob_ross Subject: Fwd: ibis logo Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:32:34 -0500 From: Deanna Sikora To: Pattir@gw.eia.org Subject: ibis logo Patti - Per your request, the IBIS logos are online for the members to view and vote on. The URL is www.eia.org/eig/ibis/logo.htm. There are five logos to choose from. Hopefully one will work. D. Sikora From owner-ibis Thu Apr 23 23:08:51 1998 Received: from gatekeep.ti.com (gatekeep.ti.com [192.94.94.61]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA08122 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dncp01.itg.ti.com ([137.167.106.201]) by gatekeep.ti.com (8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA12970; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:05:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ti (CNA0916056.tif.ti.com [137.167.98.242]) by dncp01.itg.ti.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA00533; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:03:51 +0100 (WET DST) X-Mailer: BeyondMail for Windows/Professional 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit To: "bobr@wv.mentorg.com " , "ibis@eda.org " From: Jean-Claude Perrin Subject: RE: Forwarded: Fwd: ibis logo Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:08:32 -0700 X-BeyondMail-Priority: 1 Message-Id: Conversation-Id: Reply-To: Jean-Claude Perrin X-Receipt-From-Agent: true Hello, my first choice is #3 and second choice is #5 JCP From owner-ibis Fri Apr 24 04:35:36 1998 Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id EAA13157 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 2863 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1998 11:32:15 -0000 Received: from ad049.du.pipex.com (HELO quantic-emc.com) (193.130.243.49) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 1998 11:32:15 -0000 Message-ID: <3540788D.DC899106@quantic-emc.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:33:33 +0100 From: Mike Ventham Organization: Quantic EMC Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS logo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My vote is for #3 with a larger IBIS text, then #5 without the spoken here. -- Regards Mike ________________________________________________________________ | Mike Ventham - Vice-President Engineering,Quantic EMC Inc | From owner-ibis Fri Apr 24 04:44:17 1998 Received: from email.alpcom.it (email.alpcom.it [193.42.134.240]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id EAA13321 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:44:15 -0700 (PDT) From: razvan@edm-hdt.it Received: from monviso.alpcom.it by ALPCOM.IT (PMDF V5.1-9 #23639) with SMTP id <01IW8ZQRETUO005Y2D@ALPCOM.IT> for ibis@eda.org; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:40:55 MET Received: from edm-hdt.it by monviso.alpcom.it via SMTP (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/940406.SGI) for id LAA05986; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:41:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pegasus.edm-hdt.it by edm-hdt.it (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19129; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:46:15 +0100 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:43:39 +0200 (W. Europe Daylight Time) Subject: Re: ibis logo To: ibis@eda.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-X-Sender: razvan@asterix.edm-hdt.it Hi, all! I made a small inquire in HDT and our choice is: #3 Razvan Ene \|||||||/ Software Manager _ _ e-mail:ene@edm-hdt.it H.D.T. - Italia (o)-(o) Tel: + 39 11 746.104 c.so Trapani 16 \ O / Fax: + 39 11 748.109 10139 Torino - Italy ______oOO____\__0__/_____OOo_____ __ __ ______ / / / /- __ / __ ) -- / /__/ /_ ___ _/ /_ / / ) /__ ____ __ ___ __ __ / ___ / // __ `/ __ \ / / / / _ \/ _)/ // __ `/ '_ \ / / / / // /_/ / / / / / /__/ / __/_\ \/ // /_/ / / / / /_/ /_/\_/\__, /_/ /_/ /______/\___/ \____)_/\__, /_/ /_/ __/ / __/ / \__/ \__/ ________ /__ ___/ __ __ / /__ ,___ / /_ _ __ ____ / / ____ ___ __ __ / / _ \/ __// __ \/ '_ \/ __ \/ / / __ \/ __ `/ / / / / / __/ (__/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ /_/ / /_/ / /_/ / /_/\___/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/\____/\__/\____/\__, /\ _, / __/ / _/ / \__/ \_/ From owner-ibis Fri Apr 24 23:06:43 1998 Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA02363 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 23:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id XAA11659 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 23:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from corona.cadence.com(158.140.127.12) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma893484215.011655; Fri, 24 Apr 98 23:03:35 -0700 Received: (from ads@localhost) by corona.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02500 for ibis@eda.org; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:34:35 +0531 (IST) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:34:35 +0531 (IST) From: "A. D. Shirpadaraj" Message-Id: <199804250603.LAA02500@corona.cadence.com> To: ibis@eda.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII My choice for proposed IBIS logo are Candidate No 5: First Choice Candidate No 1: Second choice Thanks Shripadaraj From owner-ibis Mon Apr 27 02:56:22 1998 Received: from jester.ti.com (jester.ti.com [192.94.94.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id CAA20430 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from king.india.ti.com ([134.183.160.185]) by jester.ti.com (8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA16744 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:52:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from asmhp23.india.ti.com (asmhp23 [134.183.193.23]) by king.india.ti.com (8.8.5/8.6.10) with ESMTP id PAA08043 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:22:34 +0530 (IST) From: Amlan Chakrabarti Received: (from tatai@localhost) by asmhp23.india.ti.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id EAA20342; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:52:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:52:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199804270952.EAA20342@asmhp23.india.ti.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Correlating IBIS models with actual Silicon measurements Cc: tatai@india.ti.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: GlOSa7R8laCipYtQGSxnQA== Hi, We at Texas Instruments (India) are trying to develop IBIS models for one of our products .We have a few questions regarding the correlation of IBIS models (generated through simulation) with actual Silicon measurements - 1.How can we measure the "input die capacitance"in the lab ? 2.How can we measure the output rise/fall times when the chip is available in a plastic package ?Unless we open the package only the enable pin of an output buffer is available to us(along with the output pin)-but we can't access the input of the buffer. Can you send us any information regarding the correlation of IBIS models with Silicon ?Any URL's having such information will be very helpful for us. Thanks and best regards, Amlan Chakrabarti. Texas Instruments (India) Ltd. E-Mail : tatai@india.ti.com From owner-ibis Mon Apr 27 06:53:24 1998 Received: from mail12.digital.com (mail12.digital.com [192.208.46.20]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA24427 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 06:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com (sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com [16.29.160.92]) by mail12.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0d) with ESMTP id JAA06484 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <2VTA1LJW>; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:50:18 -0400 Message-ID: <71EEA9EA5129D1118EA30000F840EBF15379C0@sbuamapko3bc.eng.pko.dec.com> From: Greg Edlund To: "'Amlan Chakrabarti'" Cc: "'ibis@vhdl.org'" Subject: RE: Correlating IBIS models with actual Silicon measurements Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:41:14 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Amlan, These are excellent questions, and I commend TI for pursuing lab verification of IBIS datasheets (models). This effort - and it is an effort - results in increased user confidence in your products. I wish I could tell you there is one place to look for this information. These two chapters in the IBIS Cookbook are presently under construction, as you probably already know. (If you're not familiar with the Cookbook, you can find it at the IBIS web site, www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm.) In addition, I am serving on an IBIS subcommittee which is writing a specification for datasheet accuracy; we plan to have ready it for first review in September 1998. It is our intention to make the IBIS Accuracy Specification a document of understanding between the component user and vendor so that both parties know exactly what constitutes an accurate IBIS datasheet. In the meantime, perhaps I can offer some assistance. (My company buys a lot of parts from yours, so we have more than an altruistic interest!) You won't be able to independently measure the IBIS keyword C_comp on a packaged part. In general, there are four components to pin capacitance, working in from the pin: the package, the die bond pad, the ESD protection devices, and the FETs associated with the I/O buffer circuit. When you measure pin capacitance on the packaged part, you get all of these lumped together. (Sometimes they're not really lumped, like when you have on-chip series termination.) This means that you can only verify the sum of C_comp and C_pkg (or C_pin). Of course, if you have a package with no die in it, you can isolate C_pkg. We have been struggling quite a bit with capacitance measurements on a test board that our subcommittee designed to demonstrate lab verification of IBIS datasheets. I am trying to make the measurements using an HP4275A LCR meter, which employs an autobalancing bridge. There was some excellent discussion on the SI reflector in the last two weeks around how to measure pin capacitance. I could forward you some of these notes, if you're interested. IBIS defines the ramp parameters WITHOUT the package, which is feasible in SPICE but not in the lab. I believe the intention is to capture the intrinsic rise and fall times of the driver, which may then be used with any package circuit by simply changing C_pkg, etc. However, this presents some difficulty when correlating hardware against the datasheet. If you have the SPICE model available to you, I would recommend extracting dV/dt_r and dV/dt_f from SPICE waveforms, as described in IBIS, with and without the package model to see how big an effect to expect. You can then take your lab measurements for these sub-parameters and apply a correction factor. Finally, when you feel reasonably confident in your datasheet parameters, use a behavioral simulator to generate waveforms for the IDENTICAL NETWORK that you used to measure the waveforms in the lab. Include probe capacitance and bandwidth effects in your behavioral simulation. Measure Zo and Tpd of your transmission lines and put these values in your behavioral simulations. I'm not sure why you're interested in the input of the driver. IBIS doesn't directly address I/O buffer delays. My colleague and I presented a paper on behavioral model accuracy at DesignCon98 in Santa Clara, CA. If you'd like a copy, just send me your address. Also, keep an eye on the IBIS reflector in the next month or two. Our subcommittee will be posting the design of the test board I mentioned. Sincerely, Greg Edlund ---------- Greg Edlund, Principal Engineer Server Product Development Digital Equipment Corp. 129 Parker St. PKO3-1/20C Maynard, MA 01754 (978) 493-4157 voice (978) 493-0941 FAX greg.edlund@digital.com ---------- From: Amlan Chakrabarti[SMTP:tatai@india.ti.com] Sent: Monday, April 27, 1998 5:52 AM To: ibis@vhdl.org Cc: tatai@india.ti.com Subject: Correlating IBIS models with actual Silicon measurements Hi, We at Texas Instruments (India) are trying to develop IBIS models for one of our products .We have a few questions regarding the correlation of IBIS models (generated through simulation) with actual Silicon measurements - 1.How can we measure the "input die capacitance"in the lab ? 2.How can we measure the output rise/fall times when the chip is available in a plastic package ?Unless we open the package only the enable pin of an output buffer is available to us(along with the output pin)-but we can't access the input of the buffer. Can you send us any information regarding the correlation of IBIS models with Silicon ?Any URL's having such information will be very helpful for us. Thanks and best regards, Amlan Chakrabarti. Texas Instruments (India) Ltd. E-Mail : tatai@india.ti.com From owner-ibis Mon Apr 27 09:07:22 1998 Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA26942 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-209-79-182-241.vntrcs.pacbell.net [209.79.182.241]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id JAA25916; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3544AC06.78C9C9FD@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:02:14 -0700 From: Jon Powell Reply-To: jonp@qdt.com Organization: Viewlogic Consulting Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-PBI-NC404 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amlan Chakrabarti CC: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Correlating IBIS models with actual Silicon measurements References: <199804270952.EAA20342@asmhp23.india.ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amlan, I have done a little work in this area and though I don't yet have a definitive answer I can give you some data: 1) If you make you measurements in a packaged component and you know what the parasitics of the packaged component are, you should be able to back the parasitics out of the model. Unfortunately, this is probably not easy. 2) I have made several models by doing the measurement and ignoring the fact that I couldn't back the parasitics out. The QA to the actual measurements was not perfect but it was pretty good and a lot better that not having a model. 3) If you have SPICE models (or other internal part characterization models), presumably these were made by correlation to bare die measurements and as such would be good to use for creating models. Also, if you have the raw die data it may contain the information you need for an IBIS model. regards, Jon Powell Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Consulting Services. From owner-ibis Mon Apr 27 10:43:30 1998 Received: from spsem02.sps.mot.com (spsem02.sps.mot.com [192.70.231.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA28627 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mogate.sps.mot.com by spsem02.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA06927 for ibis@eda.org; Mon, 27 Apr 98 10:40:17 MST Received: from emailmesa.sps.mot.com by mogate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA23642 for ibis@eda.org; Mon, 27 Apr 98 10:39:47 MST Received: from india.sps.mot.com by amcu-tx.sps.mot.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA28659; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:39:43 -0500 Received: by india.sps.mot.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA08674; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:39:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:39:43 -0500 From: sukanya@india.sps.mot.com (Sukanya Rajagopal) Message-Id: <199804271739.MAA08674@india.sps.mot.com> To: ibis@eda.org, bobr@wv.mentorg.com Subject: Re: Forwarded: Fwd: ibis logo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: iBTxnhy9TWK0JUOC3GmzDw== First choice is #3 & second one is #5 without the 'spoken here'. /Sukanya Rajagopal > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Thu Apr 23 13:27 CDT 1998 > >Received: from server.vhdl.org by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA03700 for jonb@risc.sps.mot.com; Thu, 23 Apr 98 11:26:22 MST > From: bobr@wv.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 98 10:15:10 PDT > To: ibis@eda.org > Subject: Forwarded: Fwd: ibis logo > > To All: > > Five new IBIS LOGO designs are available for viewing > in preparation for the IBIS meeting discussion on > Friday, April 24, 1998. Comments are welcome. > > Bob Ross > Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics > > > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:02:24 -0500 > From: Patti Rusher > To: bob_ross > Subject: Fwd: ibis logo > > > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:32:34 -0500 > From: Deanna Sikora > To: Pattir@gw.eia.org > Subject: ibis logo > > Patti - > > Per your request, the IBIS logos are online for the members to view > and vote on. The URL is www.eia.org/eig/ibis/logo.htm. There are five > logos to choose from. Hopefully one will work. > > D. Sikora > > From owner-ibis Mon Apr 27 11:46:47 1998 Received: from radius1.teleport.com (radius1.teleport.com [192.108.254.35]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA29879 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from teleport.com (pdx57-i48-02.teleport.com [204.202.167.80]) by radius1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28277; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3544D1C4.DEC96BF@teleport.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:43:17 -0700 From: Scott McMorrow X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, bobr@wv.mentorg.com Subject: Re: Forwarded: Fwd: ibis logo References: <199804271739.MAA08674@india.sps.mot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #5 and ditch the "spoken here" Scott McMorrow Principal Engineer SiQual From owner-ibis Mon Apr 27 18:11:11 1998 Received: from gatekeeper2.nsc.com (natsemi3-bh.nsc.com [205.227.60.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA05948 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper2.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id SAA17380; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:08:05 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi3-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma017341; Mon, 27 Apr 98 18:08:00 -0700 Received: from rockie.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA11209 for ibis@vhdl.org; Mon, 27 Apr 98 18:07:58 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA05660; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:10:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:10:16 -0700 From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <199804280110.SAA05660@rockie> To: ibis@vhdl.org, tatai@india.ti.com Subject: Re: Correlating IBIS models with actual Silicon measurements Amlan, >From item#1, we have always used a TDR approach to measuring C_comp. In this case, we use the Tektronix 11801B with the IPA510(Interconnect Parametric Analyzer). The reflection profile you get from launcing a fast incident wave into the device can be analyzed using the IPA which uses a DSP algorithm to ret rid of multiple reflections. The IPA software allows you to get the Z, L, C and td of the package pin. The C value will include the package as well as the die pad. Then you need to take out the pkg number(usually available from the pkg vendor)to get the effective C_comp for IBIS. I have found this method to be accurate. Regards, Syed Huq National Semiconductor Corp. > > Hi, > We at Texas Instruments (India) are trying to develop IBIS models for one of our > products .We have a few questions regarding the correlation of IBIS models > (generated through simulation) with actual Silicon measurements - > > 1.How can we measure the "input die capacitance"in the lab ? > > 2.How can we measure the output rise/fall times when the chip is available > in a plastic package ?Unless we open the package only the enable pin of > an output buffer is available to us(along with the output pin)-but we can't > access the input of the buffer. > Can you send us any information regarding the correlation of IBIS > models with Silicon ?Any URL's having such information will be very helpful > for us. From owner-ibis Tue Apr 28 10:20:46 1998 Received: from ganymede.or.intel.com (ganymede.or.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA21313 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (ichips-jf.jf.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ganymede.or.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01234 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xtg801 (xtg801.pdx.intel.com [134.134.120.169]) by ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01763 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips.intel.com by xtg801 (8.8.8/WW2.1 (Jones Farm)) id KAA26634; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804281717.KAA26634@xtg801> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:17:33 -0700 From: Stephen Peters DATE: 4/28/98 SUBJECT: 4/24/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP (Martin Freedman) Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram Cadence Design (& UniCAD) C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway, Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis* Cypress (Bruce Wenniger) Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu, Greg Edlund*, Bob Haller Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory High Design Technology Razvan Ene HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora* Incases Olaf Rethmeier*, Scott Jacobson, Werner Rissiek Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern, Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan Columbia, SC (formerly NCR) Dave Moxley Mentor Graphics (Zeelan, Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman, Interconnectix, etc.) Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot, Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, Nevin Orhanovic Mitsubishi Hoang Nguyen*, Tam Cao Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie, Ikchang Song North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda (NESA) NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler, Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin*, Peter Forstner Thomson-CSF Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic, Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel, Jean Lefebvre Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh, Gary Mandel VeriBest Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998: Actel Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin Aerospatiale Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.) John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau, Daniel Peron ALS Design Yves Mouquet Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apple Fred Floresca, Danny Itani Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Avanti Nik Bannov CERN Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, Rudi Zurbroken Compaq Shariq Rahma Crucial Technology Rathna Reddy* EIA Patti Rusher* EMC Fawn Engelmann ENST, Paris Jean-Jacques Charlot European CAD Standardization Adam Morawiec Intitiative (ECSI) Fairchild Semiconductor Peter LaFlamme H.A.S Electronics Haruny Said Intracon Design Ltd. Derek Laidlaw Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen Scottish Electronics Robert Easson Manufacturing Center (SEMC) Seagate Vanessa Howard SGS-Thomson Philippe Lefevre Siemens Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez, Gil Russell Symmetry Andy Hughes Tektronix Nassrin Ghahyasi Ultratest International Chris O'Connor Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode May 15, 1998 (916) 356-9200 4-167409 2939394 June 5, 1998 (916) 356-9200 4-167410 9468535 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Rathna Reddy from Crucial Technology (a spinoff of Micron Technology) is involved in memory board design using memory ICs and needs to use IBIS models to support EDA tools. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher reported that she sent Bob Ross a report indicating that there were no new members. Bob reported that most of the members have paid and some special case situations will be handled off line. For example, one company was double billed. Also, some companies do not show having paid for the ibischk3 development project, and these issues will be traced offline. Bob indicated that in spite of some billing confusion and glitches, he is pleased with the payment progress to date. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The AR's will be discussed at the meeting. No corrections were noted on the previous two sets of meeting Minutes. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross indicated that he still plans the Majordomo conversion when he has time. Syed Huq reported that he continues to do roster updates and reports them to Bob as they occur to get the 1998 entries correctly reflected. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross noted that IBIS was mentioned briefly in "Printed-Circuit Board Changes Enable New Design Possibilities" by Cheryl Ajluni in the April 6, 1998 issue of Electronic Design, pp. 83-92. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora found that Aptos Semiconductor is supplying IBIS models at http://www.aptos.com/ibismain.htm OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross on meeting dates Bob Ross on ibischk3 and ebdchk3 distribution Bob Ross on 3-state ECL Bob Ross on Electrical Board Description issues. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher still has not heard on the status. This may not be resolved until the next IEC meeting in September. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuit (IMIC) - Bob Ross noted the revised notation and the fact the the March 31, 1998 copy designated Version 1.1 is available and downloadable in a .pdf format from the site below: http://tsc.eiaj.or.jp/tsc/SSC/IOPG.htm Comment deadline on this version closes on June 10, 1998. Bob noted that a few pages could not be printed because of some font problems. - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Jean-Claude Perrin, Chair, reported that the New Work Item Proposal activity will be delayed by about four months due to workload conflicts and administrative delays. He may have a document to show at the IEC meeting, but it will not be the formal proposal. - JC-16B - Bob Ross wanted to clarify the dates of the IBIS Summit Meeting planned for December, 1998. Patti Rusher will check if it is planned for Wednesday, December 9, 1998. She also indicated that the JEDEC committee was very pleased to have a co-located meeting with people from JC-16B. The meeting will be mutually beneficial for the groups since they are interested in the same issues from different perspectives. MEETING DATES Bob Ross inserted this new discussion topic here. Bob indicated that the remaining meetings through the IBIS Summit Meeting at the Design Automation Conference and the other IBIS Summit meetings are listed below along with the suggested emphasis: Friday, May 15, 1998 - Teleconference Friday, June 5, 1998 - Teleconference Thursday, June 18, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (Design Automation Conference (DAC)) Election of EIA IBIS Open Forum Officers Possible Final Technical Discussions regarding Open BIRDs Possible Ratification of Version 3.1 Thursday, October 15, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (PCB Conference East and IBIS Users Group) Educational Issues Accuracy and Validation Issues Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (JEDEC JC-16B) JC-16B Design/EDA Tool Simulation/Modeling Issues for configurations of mutual interest such as Series Stub Terminated Logic (STTL), etc. Monday, February 1, 1999 - IBIS Summit Meeting (DesignCon) Regarding the DAC IBIS meeting, Stephen Peters indicated that he would like to have IBIS Version 3.1 finalized, if possible. Bob would also like this as a goal and will work hard to resolve and close out the open BIRDs. Patti Rusher has reserved the room from 9 AM to 5 PM. She needs to place the banquet order for food and plans just the morning refreshments and lunch. The meeting might not need to take all day. Greg Edlund indicated that having an IBIS Summit Meeting associated with the PCB Conference East had been discussed the previous day at the IBIS Users meeting on April 23, 1998. There was considerable interested along with the interest in the educational aspects. IBIS EAST USERS GROUP ACTIVITIES Since scheduling and meetings was being discussed, Bob Ross moved this topic here to continue with Greg Edlunds' report on the April 23, 1998 meeting. Greg already reported that the interest was positive on having an IBIS Summit meeting at the time of the PCB Conference East. Greg summarized Paul Galloway's report and gave this report. Due to job responsibility changes, Paul will have to pull away from chairing the Sub- committee on Software and Usability. Paul reported that he and Ed Sayre are working on a possible two day IBIS training course. Patti Rusher indicated that if it is to be associated with the PCB Conference East, then the proposal needs to be submitted soon to the show sponsors - Miller Freeman. The PCB magazine and Miller Freeman co-own this conference. If the course were done through the conference, then the price would probably be set and the profits would go the the conference organizers. The deadline has already past for proposed seminars. Bob Ross indicated that the course could also be set up separately. Perhaps it could follow the IBIS Summit meeting as a dry run. It could be a one-half day session after the IBIS Summit Meeting (although the feeling was that this would conflict with other IBIS Summit business). It could also be done on a separate day. Greg also stated that Paul reported on other items - the Cadence s2ibis2 windows manager was released. The IBIS Users Group Web Page is being done by a group in Switzerland and is up, but information has not been put in it yet. Greg reported that he talked about the accuracy and validation activities. He has already sent minutes out to the ibis-user reflector. The meeting was held at Trilogic. The next meeting is scheduled on Thursday, May 21, 1998. IBIS LOGO CHANGE Bob Ross summarized the comments to date on the 5 logos that were presented. Most favored #3, and some favored or listed #1 and #5 as the second choice. No one favored #2 or #4. Based on this and the comments, the committee agreed to pursue using #3. The main comment is to try make the "IBIS" larger. Arpad Muranyi did not see the association of the logo to the of the committee. Bob commented that most logos contain only the company names. We could put "I/O Interface Specification underneath the logo in some instances to define "IBIS". The EIA logo has its name, Electronic Industries Alliance, under its logo on the Home page. Patti Rusher needs to know soon what the logo will be for preparation of the EIA booth at the Design Automation Conference. Bob suggested that we are close enough to using #3 on the EIA IBIS Home page. However, the suggested variations of the logo including a larger IBIS text could still be pursued on the tttp://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.html page. We will formally decide on the logo at the May 15, 1998 meeting, if not sooner. Bob raised the issue of who is authorized to use the logo in response to a question by Greg Edlund on whether the new logo is downloadable from a .gif file. Syed Huq felt that the EIA IBIS Open Forum should control the usage of the logo since it contains the EIA logo and we do not want the IBIS logo to imply that unvalidated IBIS models comply with the IBIS standard. Patti thought that EIA IBIS Open Forum Members can use the logo (as a benefit for membership) to indicate that they are members of the EIA IBIS Open Forum. Bob stated that the previous "logo" evolved from a placard that was intended to be used at trade shows to promote IBIS acceptance. This placard was given to anyone who might be supporting the IBIS effort. So Bob, while aware of some implications, never really tried to control its usage. Since this is going to be the official logo, it can only be used by EIA IBIS Open Forum Member Companies to indicate the they are members. It cannot be used to indicate IBIS model compliance. Any other usage such as by the IBIS East Users Group) must officially be approved by the IBIS Open Forum (which should not be a problem). EDITING COMMITTEE Bob Ross indicated that he plans to upload an UNOFFICIAL IBIS ver3_1c.ibs document on eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip. It will contain the resolved BIRD47 change. The BNF AR remains. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA Bob Ross indicated no progress. AR - Andy Ingraham to issue BIRD44.1 with the changes and extensions noted in the March 13, 1998 IBIS Open Forum meeting minutes. IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.1.15) PROGRESS Bob Ross indicated that he will still act on compressing the existing executables per last meeting - .Z for unix applications, .zip for DOS Windows applications. Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek are still controlling the master of the Version 2.116 release BUG27 - Parser Crashes when Calling [Package Model] Matthew Flora found another bug which causes a crash. This occurs since some code checks for line lengths of 79 characters and other code checks for 80 characters. Matthew located the source of the problem. Bob classified this as Severe, High, Open, and intends that this fix be rolled into ibischk2.1.16. VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT Bob Ross stated that he is checking in detail the Beta Version 3.0.1 of ibischk3 and ebdchk3. So far it appears very good. Some of the prior bugs have been fixed in this version, but Bob still needs to confirm that the BUGs have been fixed in the embedded ibischk2+ code. Bob noted that the .make files has a DEFINE -DIBIS_PRINT statement which causes all the variables to be dumped. The code can be compiled without this statement for a smaller listing of just the Errors and Warnings. Bob raised the issue that even though the project is funded by 12 companies, we could release the executables. Matthew Flora indicated that this was just preliminary code, so it is possible to have some undetected mistakes. Matthew also indicated that it would be valuable to have more people using to executables to help test it. Bob cited that historically the development versions of the ibis_chk and ibischk2 executables were made available to support testing and encourage IBIS model development. Stephen Peters and others generally agreed that we should release the executables. Bob stated that we could release just the executables that were convenient such as the DOS Windows versions and a few others. Chris Rokusek volunteered on a one- time basis before the Design Automation Conference meeting to generate the complete set of ibischk3/ebdchk3 executables. Bob volunteered to compress and post them. AR - Chris Rokusek generate the ibischk3 and ebdchk3 executables for Version 3.0.1 in a timely manner and sent to Bob Ross. Bob compress and put the preliminary executables on eda.org for general access. Chris Rokusek also stated that a company who paid for the source code wants to add additional sanity checking, and Chris wondered how this may be folded back into the official source. Bob stated that any changes of this nature have to be worked thru the full committee. COOKBOOK Stephen Peters reports that there no is progress on the Cookbook project. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora indicated no activity. However, Bob Ross knows of a possible future testing situation. For general information, the contact person is: Matthew Flora, HyperLynx mbflora@hyperlynx.com BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS Bob Ross indicated no activity, but BIRD42.3 will be discussed in the near future. Bob has some concern about specifying both the [Pullup Reference Current] and [Pulldown Reference Current] and some numerical interactions. Bob indicated that aspects of BIRD42.3 have been discussed at the last two IBIS Summit Meetings. Bob also indicated that the EMC and IBIS Modeling sub-committee wanted the functionality that BIRD42.3 provides. BIRD48 - ADD MODEL BIRD49 - ADD MODEL DYNAMIC CLAMPS BIRD50 - ADD MODEL BUS HOLD Bob Ross made several comments on these BIRDs related to some additional functionality that was known, but not included in the original proposals. First, there still needs to be a mechanism to bypass the edge-trigger method of activating the dynamic clamps since some implementations allow the clamps to be invoked from an external clock so that the clamp is preset in a shifted clamp state. Arpad Muranyi mentioned that it might be possible to use a negative time value in the [GND Pulse Table] and [POWER Pulse Table] to indicate a preset state. This could relate to the operation to the control pulse used by EDA tools. Bob will look into possible methods. Bob also stated that some of the Add Model functionality is active only for certain states. Since the Model_type might be used for a particular state (such as Input, I/O or Output) another subparameter such as "State" might be needed. It would indicate usage during Input, Output, or I/O modes. Bob also noted that the embedded added models may be for an Open_sink or Open_source state. The [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] extensions could be used to explicitly give the internal loading conditions since the internal added model configuration was not given. BIRD45.1 - DYNAMIC CLAMPS Bob Ross called for a vote on BIRD45.1 for the purpose of rejecting it since BIRD48 and BIRD49 were intended to replace BIRD45.1. After some discussion on historical details, a vote on BIRD45.1 was held. BIRD45.1 was reject unanimously with two abstentions from newer members based on not being familiar with the issues. BIRD46.1 - RELAXATION OF SOME IBIS FILE NAME RESTRICTIONS Since BIRD46.1 has not been issued, Bob Ross deferred the discussion. AR - Matthew Flora issue BIRD46.1 to include references to the .pkg file and .ebd file and to change the limitation from 64 total characters to a limit of 20 characters and delete the references to allowing the period "." character. 3-STATE ECL As a new item Bob Ross indicated that per the discussion at the last meeting, he may issue a BIRD on this for adding the Model_type 3-state_ECL. He knows of an ECL device or two which really has a high-Z mode. ELECTRICAL BOARD DESCRIPTION DISCUSSION As a new item Bob Ross indicated that there were some Electrical Board Description clarification and technical questions. He might issue a BIRD for clarification. The items are: (1) We intended that circular references not be allowed, but Bob cannot find this being prohibited - e.g., EBD A references EBD B which references EBD A. Stephen Peters indicated that he assumed that this was not permitted. Bob thought ebdchk3 might actually test for this. (2) Bob questioned whether we want to keep the restriction of .ebd files not containing actual IBIS models. A single file for the .ebd and all related IBIS models (and even other Electrical Board Descriptions) would help assure that all of the related information of an Electrical Board Description are included in the same file. Bob indicated that we originally prohibited including IBIS data in .ebd files for some practical reasons. We did not want to make the ebdchk3 utility too complicated in order to make its development manageable. We also did not want to impose on the user a very large utility to do just IBIS model or EBD model checking. These assumptions may not be valid. At this time, a superset checker for both may be practical. We already permit a separate .pkg file and also the [Define Package Model] keyword to be defined within a .ibs file, so allowing an IBIS component in a .ebd file could work in a similar manner. The reference designator listing referencing the same file would needed for referenced IBIS models. Bob stated, however, that one issue could be conflicting [Define Electrical Description] names and [Component] names. (3) Regarding conflicting names for [Define Electrical Description] and [Component], Bob recommended that the names be different in practice to avoid confusion. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting is on Friday, May 15, 1998, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. BIRD46.1, if issued, is scheduled for a vote. Final resolution of the IBIS logo is scheduled. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentorg.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================== From owner-ibis Wed Apr 29 13:28:45 1998 Received: from spsem02.sps.mot.com (spsem02.sps.mot.com [192.70.231.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA18654 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mogate.sps.mot.com by spsem02.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA01827 for ibis@vhdl.org; Wed, 29 Apr 98 13:12:21 MST Received: from emailmesa.sps.mot.com by mogate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA12023 for ibis@vhdl.org; Wed, 29 Apr 98 13:12:20 MST Received: from india.sps.mot.com by amcu-tx.sps.mot.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA10346; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:12:05 -0500 Received: by india.sps.mot.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA10575; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:12:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:12:02 -0500 From: sukanya@india.sps.mot.com (Sukanya Rajagopal) Message-Id: <199804292012.PAA10575@india.sps.mot.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Need to validate the model.... Cc: sukanya@india.sps.mot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: Q+xCBvVINGiXreNk1mLNdA== Hello! We have an IBIS model but do not have a simulator which can run IBIS. Is there a way to validate the model without having to use a simulator which can run IBIS. I would appreciate any information or pointers to some URLs. Thank you, Sukanya Rajagopal. From owner-ibis Wed Apr 29 18:26:15 1998 Received: from gatekeeper2.nsc.com (natsemi3-bh.nsc.com [205.227.60.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA23416 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper2.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id SAA17174; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:23:04 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi3-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma017073; Wed, 29 Apr 98 18:22:41 -0700 Received: from rockie.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA11214 for ibis@vhdl.org; Wed, 29 Apr 98 18:22:40 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA11392; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:25:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:25:00 -0700 From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <199804300125.SAA11392@rockie> To: ibis@vhdl.org, sukanya@india.sps.mot.com Subject: Re: Need to validate the model.... Sukanya, You can go to the IBIS web page(www.eia.org/EIG/IBIS/ibis.htm)and look under 'Poster', all member EDA companies are listed there. I am sure they will help you out with checking out the model and simulating it for verification. You can also send the model to the IBIS Librarian(jon@qdt.com)to check it out and give you some feedbacks. Regards, Syed. National Semiconductor Corp. > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Wed Apr 29 14:30:44 1998 > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:12:02 -0500 > From: sukanya@india.sps.mot.com (Sukanya Rajagopal) > To: ibis@vhdl.org > Subject: Need to validate the model.... > Cc: sukanya@india.sps.mot.com > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=us-ascii> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Md5: Q+xCBvVINGiXreNk1mLNdA== > > Hello! > > We have an IBIS model but do not have a simulator which can run IBIS. Is there a > way to validate the model without having to use a simulator which can run IBIS. > I would appreciate any information or pointers to some URLs. > > Thank you, > Sukanya Rajagopal. > From owner-ibis Wed Apr 29 20:23:22 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [192.94.38.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id UAA25091 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emicx.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id UAA28413; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bob by emicx.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id UAA01771; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:19:41 -0700 (PDT) From: bobr@emicx.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA11225; Wed, 29 Apr 98 20:19:41 PDT Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 20:19:41 PDT Message-Id: <9804300319.AA11225@bob> To: huq@rockie.nsc.com, ibis@vhdl.org, sukanya@india.sps.mot.com Subject: Re: Need to validate the model.... Sukanya: You can also send the model to mbflora@hyperlynx.com, and Matthew will distribute it to 6 different vendors on the Model Review Committee to test in their products and to give you feedback on what it may need and on how well it works. Best Regards, Bob Ross Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics > Sukanya, > You can go to the IBIS web page(www.eia.org/EIG/IBIS/ibis.htm)and > look under 'Poster', all member EDA companies are listed there. > I am sure they will help you out with checking out the model and > simulating it for verification. > You can also send the model to the IBIS Librarian(jon@qdt.com)to > check it out and give you some feedbacks. > Regards, > Syed. > National Semiconductor Corp. > > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Wed Apr 29 14:30:44 1998 > > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:12:02 -0500 > > From: sukanya@india.sps.mot.com (Sukanya Rajagopal) > > To: ibis@vhdl.org > > Subject: Need to validate the model.... > > Cc: sukanya@india.sps.mot.com > > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=us-ascii> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Content-Md5: Q+xCBvVINGiXreNk1mLNdA== > > > > Hello! > > > > We have an IBIS model but do not have a simulator which can run IBIS. Is there a > > way to validate the model without having to use a simulator which can run IBIS. > > I would appreciate any information or pointers to some URLs. > > > > Thank you, > > Sukanya Rajagopal. > > From owner-ibis Thu Apr 30 07:57:37 1998 Received: from spsem02.sps.mot.com (spsem02.sps.mot.com [192.70.231.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA05785 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mogate.sps.mot.com by spsem02.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA00244 for ibis@vhdl.org; Thu, 30 Apr 98 07:54:28 MST Received: from emailmesa.sps.mot.com by mogate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA06406 for ibis@vhdl.org; Thu, 30 Apr 98 07:54:27 MST Received: from india.sps.mot.com by amcu-tx.sps.mot.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA13623; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:54:25 -0500 Received: by india.sps.mot.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA11100; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:54:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:54:24 -0500 From: sukanya@india.sps.mot.com (Sukanya Rajagopal) Message-Id: <199804301454.JAA11100@india.sps.mot.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Thanks... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: Nf+ihRN3BlPfgjnnjDkpQg== Hello All! Thanks for all your responses. I am currently pursuing this matter further. I will get some thoughts on Kellee's offer to run it for us and I definitely do appreciate your offer, Kellee. BTW, yes I did run the syntax checker on our model and it checks ok. Until next time, Sukanya Rajagopal.