From owner-ibis Fri Oct 1 16:10:54 1999 Received: from mail.nesa.com (mail.nesa.com [204.240.29.34]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id QAA25160; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porky (porky.nesa.com [204.240.29.45]) by mail.nesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28089; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:47:57 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991001165545.0098e8a0@mail.nesa.com> X-Sender: breda@mail.nesa.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 16:55:45 -0400 To: ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org From: Kathy Breda Subject: IBIS Summit - Thursday, 14-Oct-99 - updated AGENDA included Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, If you are interested in attending the IBIS summit, and have not responded, please reply to this message. Attached you will find the Draft Agenda for the meeting. ************************************************************ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: 8:30 AM - 5:00 PM, Thursday, October 14, 1999 Location: Marlboro Holiday Inn (NOT AT THE BOXBORO HOLIDAY INN THIS YEAR) 265 Lakeside Ave. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508) 481-3000 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: North East Systems Associates, Inc. (NESA), Hyperlynx, Praegitzer Design PCB Conference: October 11-15, 1999 East Royal Plaza Trade Center Marlborough, Massachusetts See http://www.pcbeast.com/ for more information. ************************************************************ PROPOSED AGENDA 8:30 AM MORNING REFRESHMENTS (from the Sponsors) 9:00 AM Introductions and Business Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics Ed Sayre North East Systems Associates (NESA) 9:30 AM "Making the IBIS Specification More Readable" Roy Leventhal, 3Com 10:00 AM "Model Extraction Based on Differential TDR" Steven Corey, Time Domain Analysis Systems 10:30 AM BREAK (Refreshments from Sponsors) 10:45 AM Roundtable - Accuracy Specification Bob Haller, Compaq (Leader) 12:00 PM LUNCH (Provided to Attendees by the Sponsors) 1:00 PM Roundtable - Input Modeling Discussion Stephen Peters, Intel (Leader) 2:00 PM Roundtable - IBIS Version 4.0 Features Discussion Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics (Leader) 2:30 PM BREAK (Refreshments from Praegitzer Design) 2:45 PM "Proposed Improvements to the SPICE to IBIS Tool" Mohamed Nasef, Mentor Graphics 3:15 PM Roundtable - Spice to IBIS Discussion Mike LaBonte, Cadence 4:00 PM Roundtable - Future of User Group Discussion Ed Sayre, NESA (Leader) 5:00 PM FINAL BUSINESS AND ADJORN **************************************************************************** DIRECTIONS TO MEETING The Marlboro Holiday Inn is located at the junction of Route 20 and I-495 (exit 24A off I-495 North or South) Located 4 miles from the Massachusetts Turnpike and One Mile from I-290. Thirty miles from Boston and Logan International Airport **************************************************************************** LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS Marlboro Holiday Inn 265 Lakeside Ave. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508)481-3000 Boxboro Holiday Inn. One Adams Place Boxboro, MA Tel: (978) 263-8701 Fax: (978) 263-0518 Royal Plaza Hotel 181 Boston Post road West Marlborough, MA 01752 Tel: (508) 460-0700 Radisson Inn 75 Felton St. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508) 480-0015 Embassy Suites Hotels 123 Boston Post Rd. West Marlboro, MA (508) 485-5900 Amerscot House 61 West Acton Road Stow, MA 01775 email: doreen@amerscot.com, web site http://www.amerscot.com Tel: (508)897-0666, FAX (508)897-6914 Westford Regency Inn 219 Littleton Rd. (exit 32 off I-495) Westford, MA Tel: (978) 692-8200 +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ | NORTH EAST SYSTEMS ASSOCIATES, INC. | | ------------------------------------- | | "High Performance Engineering & Design" | +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ | Kathy Breda e-mail: breda@nesa.com | | NESA, Inc. http://www.nesa.com/ | | 636 Great Road Tel +1.978.897-8787 | | Stow, MA 01775 USA Fax +1.978.897-5359 | +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ From owner-ibis Mon Oct 4 23:54:07 1999 Received: from mail.huawei.com.cn ([202.96.135.132]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA11063 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com.cn ([129.9.129.7]) by mail.huawei.com.cn (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA17846; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:52:17 +0800 Message-ID: <37F9A07C.98DA9093@huawei.com.cn> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:53:48 +0800 From: sunweifeng X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users , "ibis-vhdl.org" Subject: help Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Sir, I'm Sun Weifeng, working for Huawei Co., which is a communication equipment company in P R C. Now have used the signal integrity analysis in our product design, but there are many devices don't have the IBIS model because most of them are communication IC, cpu , or ASIC. So we need the model help for our SI analysis, hope you can tell me the information which company can provide the modeling service, thanks a lot. Thank you very much again, Looking forwards your response, Best Regards Sun Weifeng From owner-ibis Tue Oct 5 10:27:38 1999 Received: from intermailhost.viewlogic.com (intermailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.6.17]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA15127 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:27:36 -0700 (PDT) From: guy@camarillo.viewlogic.com Received: from mailhost.viewlogic.com (mailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.3.35]) by intermailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14978 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:26:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qdt.viewlogic.com (peterbilt [139.181.194.6]) by mailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27107 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:26:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from camarillo.viewlogic.com (b1b) by qdt.viewlogic.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28695; Tue, 5 Oct 99 10:27:27 PDT Received: from f22.viewlogic.com by camarillo.viewlogic.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA17141; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:27:24 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:27:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199910051727.KAA17141@camarillo.viewlogic.com> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes (10/1/99) DATE: 10/5/99 SUBJECT: 10/1/99 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1999 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram*, Norio Matsui, Neven Orhanovic, Fred Ballesteri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte* Cisco Systems Syed Huq Compaq Bob Haller, Steve Coe, Shafir Rahman, Maher Elasad Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Fabrizio Zanella Fairchild Semiconductor [Peter LaFlamme], Craig Klem H.A.S. Electronics (Haruny Said) Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Paul Gregory, Henry Wu HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli, Lynne Green, John Angulo* IBM Greg Edlund, Michael Cohen*, Praven Patel Incases Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek, David Eagles, Wilhelm Arnoldi, Ulrich Losch Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern, Martin Chang, Dave Moxley, Kerry Nelson*, Jeff Day, Richard Mellitz, Peter Liou, Will Hobbs*, Henri Maramis LSI Logic (Symbios Logic) Scott King Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Mohamed Mahmoud, Sherif Hammad, Jean Oudinot, Markku Kukkanen, Martin Groeber, Karine Loudet, Hisham Gamal, Evgeny Wasserman Mitsubishi (Tam Cao) Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Michael Baxter, Kathy Breda NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen, Peter Christiaans Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens Bernhard Unger, Christian Mitschke, Manfred Maurer, Peter Kaiser, Wolfram Meyer, Gerald Bannert, Harmut Ibowski, Katja Zuleeg, Hans Pichlmaier, Eckhard Lenski, Kortheuer Udo, Christian Sporrer SiQual Scott McMorrow Texas Instruments Jean-Claude Perrin, Shankar Balasubramaniah, Ramzi Ammar, Thomas Fisher Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky Viewlogic Systems Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Cary Mandel, (Jon Powell) VeriBest Ian Dodd Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1999: 3Dfx Interactive Ken Wu Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Alcatel Steven Criel Analytical Edge Robert Easson Applied Microelectronics Brian Sanderson BMW Friedrich Haslinger Bogatin Enterprise Eric Bogatin Bosch Telecom Detlef Wolf Celestica Danny Da Silva ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA [Patti Rusher], Cecilia Fleming*, Dan Heinemeier Electronique Catherine Gross EFM Consulting Ekkehard Miersch FCI John Ellis High Design Technology Razvan Ene Hitachi ULSI Hideki Fukuda Infineon Thomas Latzel Intracon Design Mike Osmond Litton Systems Robert Bremer Matsushita Atsuji Itoh Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Nortel Networks Martin Hall (& at Viewlogic), Calvin Trowell Oce Printing Systems Ernst Deiringer Praegitzer Design Rick Newell Rockwell Collins Susan Tweeton, Ron Hau Samsung Jung-Gun Byun, Cheol-Seung Choi Shindengen Tsuyoshi Horigome Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres, Philippe LeFevre StorageTek Nick Krull Sun Microsystems Victor Chang, Kevin Ko Tektronix Tom Brinkoetter Teradyne Mikhail Khusid VDOL Robert Novosel Xilinx Susan Wu (Unaffiliated, Retired) Bruce Wenniger In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode October 14, 1999 IBIS Summit Meeting, No Teleconference October 29, 1999 (916) 356-9200 2-356762 1385866 November 19, 1999 (916) 356-9200 2-356763 7473493 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Bob Ross announced that Via Technologies in Taiwan is now an official EIA IBIS Open Forum Member and is so listed above. Guy de Burgh noted that he added Via Technologies to the membership list. He still is validating the addresses of four member companies. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The September 10, 1999 Minutes were approved without change. Bob Ross opened the discussion, per the AR's for Cecilia Fleming and Bob, regarding alignment of the IBIS bylaws with EIA EP-20, and also with respect to new officer positions approved at the June 18, 1999 meeting. The AR's are as follows: AR - Bob Ross and Cecilia Fleming research what is needed to align the IBIS bylaws with EP-20. AR - Bob Ross and Cecilia Fleming write position definitions for the new positions of Webmaster and Postmaster. Bob presented his opinion that the EP-20 bylaws do not relate well to organizations that conduct business on a frequent basis via teleconference calls and that use public e-mail reflectors for discussions. The IBIS Open Forum has effectively conducted business in a professional manner for years with wide-spread public visibility and support. There is no compelling reason for the IBIS Open Forum to change its mode of operation. Bob noted that EP-20 has an "escape clause" in the Notice Page: "This publication is not intended to preclude or discourage other approaches that similarly represent good engineering practice, or that may be acceptable to, or have been accepted by the appropriate bodies." Bob proposed exercising this clause to provide the rationale for dealing with the meeting quorum issue. Bob proposed that the meeting quorum remain at 5 member companies for normal teleconference business. We typically have had about 8 to 10 participating at each meeting out of 31 companies. Of this number, about 15 companies have been calling in. Many other companies have joined to be either supportive of IBIS or to participate in other ways besides attending the teleconference meetings. Formal letter ballot votes usually related to the official ratification of documents. Bob proposed that we will require a majority of official members to vote on such issues. This actually exceeds the EP-20 rules. Currently this means we would require 16 members to vote. Bob also copied the officer positions from the original charter, but changed to add draft descriptions of the new Postmaster and Webmaster positions. We will vote on adopting these new positions at a later meeting. Position Responsibilities ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chairperson Oversee all forum activities, preside at all general meetings. Finance authority. This person must be an employee of a Membership Company. Vice Chair Cover for chair and secretary in their absence, coordinate all public relations (press releases, media contacts). This person must be an employee of a Membership Company. Secretary Coordinate logistics of all meetings, take and publish meeting minutes within 10 days of meeting. [Delete this task since it is transferred to the Postmaster: Work with or act as file server sysop to maintain the reflector and on-line files.] This person does not need to be an employee of a Membership Company. Librarian Maintain the library of public IBIS models, including verifying authenticity and compliance before posting. This person does not need to be an employee of Membership Company. Webmaster Maintains the contents of the official EIA IBIS Open Forum Web site and Roster files under www.eia.org either directly or through contact with EIA staff. This person does not need to be an employee of a Membership Company. Postmaster Maintains the e-mail distribution lists and performs file server sysop activities for the on-line files on the IBIS site: www.eda.org/pub/ibis/. This person does not need to be an employee of a Membership Company. Other AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq uploaded an updated Roster. Please review and send corrections to Syed. We are listing primary and secondary member for the official EIA members, where possible. Bob Ross noted that Michael Mirmak of Intel updated the tree3_0a.txt to the Version 3.2 level and also expanded the content to note the IBIS Version number when a feature was introduced. Some enumerated items were added. It is now uploaded in http://pub/ibis/ver3.2/tree3_2.txt Comments are welcome. This may be enhanced further since some additional modes are not documented. The older trees formerly in the work in progress (wip) subdirectory have been moved to the ver3.0 subdirectories. Bob reported that Roy Leventhal of 3Com has prepared some IBIS tutorial material and expanded descriptions. Bob plans to upload the material in the training subdirectory after the write-ups are reviewed and purged of some information that applies only to 3Com. Bob reported on a paper: "The Development of Analog SPICE Behavioral Model Based on IBIS Model" in the Proceedings of the Ninth Great Lakes Symposium on VLSI, March, 1999, by Ying Wang and Han Ngee Tan of Nanyang Technological University, Singapore, on pp. 101-104. It presents some of the algorithms that have been reported at IBIS Summit Meetings. A link to this paper is: http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/ehntan/glsvlsi.zip Bob noted that there was some discussion on the Signal Integrity Reflector on IBIS algorithms with an older reference to: "Extraction of Transient Behavioral Model of Digital I/O Buffers from IBIS" by Peivand Tehrani, Yuzhe Chen and Jiayuan Fang from the 46th IEEE Electronic Components & Technology Conference, May 28-31, 1996, pp. 1009-1015. A link exits under: http://www.sigrity.com/papers/ectc96/DOectc96ibis.htm Bob also noted that "IBIS Models Accept the High Speed Challenge", by Dan Lake, Mentor Graphics, in Design Wave Magazine, August, 1999 in Japan. The English translation is on the site: http://www.mentor.com/icx/articles/ibis_models_aug99.html NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Bob Ross stated that the Infineon IBIS model link previously published has been dropped. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Cecilia Fleming reported on the IEC TC93 meeting held in Arlington, Virginia on September 22-23, 1999. She sent some draft minutes and presentations to Bob Ross. Cecilia noted that IEC 62014-1 vote (IEC 93/91/CDV) has been approved and is at FDIS due December 1, 1999. Cecilia needs to make the changes necessary for it to be published. The maintenance cycle will be three years, and Bob is designated the Project Leader. Bob noted that other related business will be discussed later. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - Cecilia Fleming did not have any report on any possible discussions of IMIC at the IEC TC93 meeting. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integratd Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross stated that the draft minutes of the IEC TC93 meeting above showed that several national bodies were interested in IBIS and EMC. The project is still remaining at "zero stage". Bob noted that the WG6 Action Plan has these items to be done by December 2000 by Jean-Claude Perrin: Complete IBIS EMC Model Validation Work with IEC TC47 and IEC TC77 to define ways to measure and incorporate EMC characteristics into systems descriptions Encourage adoption of IBIS EMC extensions by software vendors - JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - Bob Ross noted that D.C. Sessions reported provide a presentation at the JEDEC meeting in Vancouver, British Columbia. His slides (which are available directly from him) showed that he reported on the progress of BIRD61, BIRD62, and BIRD63. These BIRDs relate to technologies of interest to JEDEC. ANSI/EIA-656-A UPDATE Bob Ross stated that he sent out the note to the IBIS reflectors after receiving notification from Cecilia Fleming that IBIS Version 3.2 is now officially ANSI/EIA-656-A as of September 21, 1999. Cecilia reported that she sent out a press release to 140 publications. Bob asked that we formally vote on the release of ANSI/EIA-656-A to IEC for international ratification. This was approved by unanimous vote. Cecilia indicated that IBIS Version 3.2 would probably follow as IEC 62014-2 and replace IEC 62014-1. In the mean time, we are continuing with IEC 62014-1 document preparations. IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS Bob Ross noted that a meeting was held on Wednesday, September 15, 1999 to work on IBIS Summit Meeting plans. The ideas have been incorporated in the agenda. IBIS SUMMIT OCTOBER 14, 1999 Bob Ross reported on the IBIS Summit meeting scheduled on Thursday, October 14, 1999 at Marlborough, Massachusetts during the week of the PCB Conference East. Kathy Breda sent out another announcement notice on Friday, September 14, 1999. Current Sponsors are NESA, Cadence, HyperLynx, and Praegitzer Design. Kathy had reported that about 18 people are officially signed up. We know of several others who are attending, and Bob expects about 30 to 40. Along with a few presentations, we are focusing more on interactive roundtable discussions on some topics of current interest. Everyone is welcome to bring a few backup slides (versus a formal presentations) on points that you might want to raise. (Blank overheads will also be available for interactive discussions.) Bob reviewed the agenda to date. Lynne Green's presentation on "Model Design: Tables and Equations" previously announced needs to postponed to the next IBIS Summit due to an unexpected family situation preventing her from attending. Also, the Connector Specification discussion will be part of a broader discussion on IBIS Version 4.0 features. (Work is continuing on the Connector Specification, but it is not ready for full discussion yet.) After reviewing the contents and rearranging some times, the draft agenda will be sent out by Kathy on Friday, October 1, 1999 and the final meeting agenda on Thursday, October 7, 1999. The draft agenda that was sent out is is given below: 8:30 AM MORNING REFRESHMENTS (from the Sponsors) 9:00 AM Introductions and Business Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics Ed Sayre North East Systems Associates (NESA) 9:30 AM "Making the IBIS Specification More Readable" Roy Leventhal, 3Com 10:00 AM "Model Extraction Based on Differential TDR" Steven Corey, Time Domain Analysis Systems 10:30 AM BREAK (Refreshments from Sponsors) 10:45 AM Roundtable - Accuracy Specification Bob Haller, Compaq (Leader) 12:00 PM LUNCH (Provided to Attendees by the Sponsors) 1:00 PM Roundtable - Input Modeling Discussion Stephen Peters, Intel (Leader) 2:00 PM Roundtable - IBIS Version 4.0 Features Discussion Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics (Leader) 2:30 PM BREAK (Refreshments from Praegitzer Design) 2:45 PM "Proposed Improvements to the SPICE to IBIS Tool" Mohamed Nasef, Mentor Graphics 3:15 PM Roundtable - Spice to IBIS Discussion Mike LaBonte, Cadence 4:00 PM Roundtable - Future of User Group Discussion Ed Sayre, NESA (Leader) 5:00 PM FINAL BUSINESS AND ADJOURN Raj Rahuram commented that this meeting overlaps with PCB East and causes some people who need to be at the show to miss the meeting. Bob thought that the meeting spanned five days, but also noted that perhaps another day that avoids the trade show portion might have been better. S2IBIS3 COMMITTEE REPORT Michael Cohen reported on the meeting held on September 30, 1999. The main item of business was to work through items of a draft requirements document initially prepared by Syed Huq. The next subcommittee meeting is scheduled on October 7, 1999. Michael hopes the requirements document will be finished by the end of October 1999. IBIS DUES AND FUNDING At the September 10, 1999 meeting the subject of IBIS dues and funding was initially introduced. Bob Ross opened the discussion by noting that the main problem is that the IBIS Open Forum brings in about $15,000 per year, but the EIA Budget for the IBIS Committee is about $22,000. Bob commented that our dues structure is very low compared to other organizations, and we need provide reasonable support to EIA for staffing and expenses for the services that we receive. This support is shared by all member committees. However, the actual budget numbers for 1999 (which were never discussed with the Committee) contain some false assumptions and misunderstandings. Also, Cecilia Fleming noted that one of the expense items for EIA booths will no longer be allocated to committees. Furthermore, Bob noted that the Committee only controls several thousand dollars out of the total amount, mostly for the expenses associated with June IBIS Summit Meeting held during the Design Automation Conference. Bob sent out some adjusted raw data from Cecilia to the IBIS reflector of the known budget items: ------- EIA Electronic Industries Alliance EIG Electrical Information Group DAD Design Automation Division IBIS EIA IBIS Open Forum INCOME IBIS Membership Dues $15,000 Fees & Assessments Used only for Direct Expenses EXPENSES Basis: ------------------------------ IBIS EIG DAD EIA Direct Budget Budget Budget Alloc. Expense Salaries and Benefits $9,000 5% Interest Expense Not Allocated Occupancy 610 5% Bad debts Not Allocated Depreciation 250 5% Printing 200 20% Postage 300 20% Freight & Delivery 100 20% Travel & Entertainment 1,400 20% Telephone 200 20% Meetings and Conference Exp. 2,400 20% Professional Services X Memberships & Subscriptions Not Allocated Web Site Services Not Allocated Advertising & Promotions 1,000 20% Show Expenses (Deleted) Office Supplies & Misc. 100 20% ------- Total Exp. Before Corp. Alloc. 15,560 Corporate EIA 6,200 X ------- Total Expenses 21,760 ------- More recent data raised the Corporate EIA expense to about 7,700. Stephen Peters raised concern that some of the items seemed to be keyed off of income. If dues are raised, then the allocation expenses would also be raised. So the IBIS Committee will always be in the red. Cecilia stated that the year 2000 budget is being worked on and will be discussed at an EIA Board meeting on October 24, 1999. Fewer items will be allocated directly to the committees. The committees should have direct control over more expenses. Bob plans to meet with EIA staff on October 15, 1999. Bob noted that while the dues are low, many members do contribute much more in a number of ways. For example, most of the IBIS Summit Meetings are funded by sponsorship companies, and the teleconference bridges are donated. The current dues levels allows the IBIS Open Forum to gain participation of to provide a broad base of support. Bob asked what people thought their companies would be willing to pay. Several people reported that dues up to around $1000 would be tolerable. Michael Cohen and others commented that some of the larger companies are more limited since the funding is actually not from the overall corporation, but usually from a smaller group within (with tighter budget controls). Matthew Flora suggested that a lower dues number such as $500 be retained for very small companies (for example with five or less people). Currently, there is no meaningful reporting by EIA that relates to any direct expenses or additional income sources. If dues were raised, Bob would want meaningful reporting of actual income and expenses so that we can carry over our accumulated funds from year to year. Bob asked Guy de Burgh to assist in keeping track of the IBIS direct income and expenses as an added role to the Secretary function. COOKBOOK STATUS Stephen Peters had no report. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora reported that he sent out for review an IBIS model from Intel. IBISCHK3 BUG REPORT STATUS Bob Ross reported that Atul Agarwal agreed to provide the fixes for BUG36 and BUG37. We will hold the code until more bugs are fixed since the above bugs were minor. Matthew stated that he will now work on BUG34 suggestions with respect to the existing AR: AR - Matthew Flora issue a revised BUG34 to document the conditions where Warning messages are issued. BIRD62 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVER THRESHOLDS (discussed First) Stephen peters commented BIRD62, first discussed at the September 10, 1999 meeting, introduced the separate keyword [Receiver Thresholds], The team felt that [Model Spec] did not apply for this situation. The new keyword is sensitive only to voltage, but not to process and temperature. Bob Ross stated that he did have concerns about the new syntax, but also recognized that some of specifications of the new keyword regarding keeping a constant voltage difference over the threshold region would be difficult to specify with the [Model Spec] keyword. Furthermore, the new approach is more consistent with data sheet specifications for some of the newer technologies. Stephen still plans to respond to some of the comments and provide an updated BIRD62.1. Bob still had some concerns over syntax details. BIRD63 - DOCUMENTATION OF RECEIVER SETUP AND HOLD TIMING CONDITIONS Bob Ross noted that the resolution of the syntax issues of BIRD62 would apply to BIRD63 for receiver setup and hold timing conditions. Thus, he did not provide any comments on BIRD63. BIRD61 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS Stephen Peters commented that we still plans to update BIRD61 in respond to IBIS reflector discussions. He is still seeking EDA vendor ideas on algorithms or working models to process the tables for receiver delay changes versus some input parameters. Matthew Flora stated that D.C. Sessions presented a "chalk talk" at the February 1, 1999 IBIS Summit Meeting showing that delay adjustments fit very well a two-thirds power function of input overdrive. Bob Ross stated that there still remain four general alternatives to process the data: 1) Characterize the input into parameters and a) find the delay from the table by interpolation, or b) find the delay from an estimation formula (such as the 2/3rds power relationship), 2) Develop in input model which will process actual receiver inputs and a) have the model output a delay adjustment value, or b) have the model output a waveform from which the delay adjustment can be measured. An example of such a processor would be the Spice model itself or some reduction of it. We still need to have an idea on how the data is to be processed so that we know that we are specifying the appropriate type of data and have provided a sufficient amount of data. Discussion will continue until we reach some kind of resolution. APPLICATION PROGRAM INTERFACE (API) DISCUSSION The meeting was extended by fifteen minutes. Will Hobbs introduced the "food for thought" need for an Application Program Interface (API) by noted that IBIS Versions 1.1, 2.1 and 3.2 all have successfully addressed emerging requirements. However, the process is slow, and newer requirements for timing analysis with picosecond resolution and simultaneous switching outputs make IBIS challenges even more difficult. Adoption of IBIS keywords for leading edge technologies such as behavioral receivers will take time. One solution is to provide the existing functionality in a manner that protects intellectual property. Will proposed the possibility of C set of procedures that might pass information on initial conditions, pin lists, pin definition, time steps, and voltage and currents at each pin. The simulation kernel could be a proprietary Spice or a public-domain Spice. The executable would include the simulation engine or else reference the public domain simulation engine (this could be more efficient since the simulation engine would not be copied in each executable). Models with advanced features could then be provided in a more timely manner. These would be vendor neutral models. A discussion followed and some of the comments are noted here. Arpad Muranyi questioned why this was different than encrypted models that could be provided. Will stated that the simulation engine was provided or else a public domain simulator could be used. Raj Raghuram stated that C and C++ interfaces were easy to do, and Berkeley Spice supported user defined functions. Will stated that the intent was to use existing Spice constructs. Arpad commented that since many companies use features of internal proprietary Spices, translation to public domain Spices might be difficult. Mike LaBonte stated that interprocess communication between an IBIS simulator and a such a model was possible. He noted several difficulties: 1) time step concerns related to convergence 2) platform support for the compiled executables 3) how to generate the model Will also added size and speed concerns. Will and Mike thought the number of platforms to support was not that large (Windows, and several flavors of UNIX.) Convergence would be made easier by passing initial conditions. Mike also stated that the model was easy to validate by the provider since it was based on the original source model. A C based model would just mimic the functionality and would need to be validated. Raj noted that binaries with function calls could be constructed. Mike stated that with executables, no encryption was needed. Encrypted models are difficult to use. Matthew Flora commented that perhaps a script interface could be used. Mike stated that this is essentially how Spice is handled. Will added that an API may make it possible to interface with IMIC. The current problem is that IMIC still requires revealing structural details. Mike added that IMIC would not be handled any differently than structural based Spice Models, although IMIC does contain an IBIS like wrapper statements for connections. Raj added that Berkeley Spice is still a good starting point at providing interfaces. Arpad commented that convergence issues might still be a general concern. Bob Ross stated that this discussion could be continued as an agenda item and eventually could evolve into a BIRD for more detailed discussion. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL STATUS Not Discussed NEXT MEETING: The next meeting will be the IBIS Summit Meeting at Marlboro, Massachusetts on Thursday, October 14, 1999 from 8:30 AM to 5 PM. Teleconference lines will NOT be available. The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, October 29, 1999 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@viewlogic.com Senior Manager, Viewlogic Systems 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Signal Integrity Engineer, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 mbflora@hyperlynx.com Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 114715 N.E. 95th Street Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================== From owner-ibis Wed Oct 6 10:40:57 1999 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA26996 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id KAA12172; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id KAA27377; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <37FB897B.2C5AEBFD@mentor.com> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:40:11 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: Review of IMIC Version 1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To IBIS Committee: This is to inform everyone that Version 1.2 of IMIC from the EIAJ I/O Interface Model Project Group for review. The comment deadline is December 25, 1999. Download links to English and Japanese versions of the document are at the bottom of the page: http://tsc.eiaj.or.jp/tsc/SSC/iopg.htm or from the existing "Specs", "IMIC" link on the EIA IBIS home page: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics From owner-ibis Fri Oct 8 08:54:57 1999 Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA09696 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:54:56 -0700 (PDT) From: jonp@pacbell.net Received: from postoffice.pacbell.net (ppp-209-79-182-130.vntrcs.pacbell.net [209.79.182.130]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21535; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FE13B9.990B7B6E@postoffice.pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 08:54:33 -0700 Reply-To: jonp@pacbell.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-PBI-NC404 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ibis@vhdl.org" Subject: Model Page input request Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Fellow Ibisians, I am getting ready to update the IBIS model page. If you have any new link addresses or other input, please send them to me at: jonp@pacbell.net or jpowell@viewlogic.com Thanks for your help Jon Powell IBIS Librarian From owner-ibis Fri Oct 8 10:39:16 1999 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA10140; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id KAA17703; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id KAA27786; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <37FE2C15.E6D0E521@mentor.com> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:38:29 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org CC: derickson@iec.org Subject: IBIS & DesignCon2000 Early Information Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To IBIS Members: I am sending some early DesignCon2000 information provided by the DesignCon2000 staff for your planning and possible early registration as noted below. The IBIS Open Forum again plans to hold a Summit meeting at DesignCon2000 and also participate with a booth. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics -------------------------------------------------------------------------- EIA IBIS Open Forum invites you to participate in DesignCon 2000 The EIA IBIS Open Forum is pleased to announce its associate sponsorship of DesignCon 2000, and will again host the IBIS Summit Monday January 31, 2000 8:30 also at the Convention Center. We invite you and your organization to participate in DesignCon 2000, the conference providing practical design solutions from practicing engineers, to be held January 31-February 3, 2000 at the Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara CA. The educational sessions of DesignCon support the IBIS model in design engineering, Input/Output for system-on-chip, transmission line analysis, high-speed printed circuit board design, and provide a multitude of other conference sessions presented by engineers and engineering professionals in intellectual property, high-performance system design, and wireless and broadband design. In addition to the sessions, DesignCon 2000 will feature 5 panel discussions, half-day TecForums presented by professionals and consultants, and a plenary panel on system and chip technology drivers for third generation wireless. The exhibit floor at DesignCon will feature more than 100 exhibitors delivering technology solutions to the world's design-engineering community. DesignCon 2000: One Event-Four Conferences-All the Design Solutions - System-on-Chip Design Conference - High-Performance System Design Conference - Wireless and Broadband Design Conference - Intellectual Property (IP) World Forum Register On-Line! Visit http://www.designcon.com for complete details, or access the DesignCon2000 link through the EIA IBIS Open Forum home page Upcoming Events link http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm or click to download the DesignCon 2000 Advance Registration Brochure in Adobe Acrobat format from: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/shows/designcon2000/ Select one of the discounts below and then follow one of the links to register! Individuals of an IBIS Member Company receive a 15% discount on any conference package. Non-members registering by October 31 provides you with a 10% discount on a three-day conference, entrance to the exhibits, and the conference proceedings on CD Rom. Any returning attendee can receive a 20% discount, and the conference proceedings on CD Rom. Featuring four conferences, DesignCon 2000 promises to be the leading educational event in the design engineering industry. If you would like to receive a copy of of the complete DesignCon catalog in November, e-mail our registration team at designcon@iec.org. From owner-ibis Fri Oct 8 11:59:07 1999 Received: from mail.nesa.com (mail.nesa.com [204.240.29.34]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA10339; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porky (porky.nesa.com [204.240.29.45]) by mail.nesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA16242; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:38:45 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991008124701.00adb410@mail.nesa.com> X-Sender: breda@mail.nesa.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 12:47:01 -0400 To: ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org From: Kathy Breda Subject: IBIS Summit - 10/14/99, Final Agenda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, If you are interested in attending the IBIS summit, and have not responded, please reply to this message. Attached you will find the Official Agenda for the meeting. ************************************************************ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G A G E N D A Time/Date: 8:30 AM - 5:00 PM, Thursday, October 14, 1999 Location: Marlboro Holiday Inn(NOT AT THE BOXBORO HOLIDAY INN THIS YEAR) 265 Lakeside Ave. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508) 481-3000 Content: IBIS Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: Cadence Hyperlynx North East Systems Associates, Inc. Praegitzer Design PCB-East Conference: October 11-15, 1999 Royal Plaza Trade Center Marlborough, Massachusetts See http://www.pcbeast.com/ for more information. ************************************************************ IBIS SUMMIT AGENDA 8:30 AM MORNING REFRESHMENTS (from the Sponsors) 9:00 AM Introductions and Business Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics Ed Sayre North East Systems Associates (NESA) 9:30 AM "Navigating IBIS at 3Com" Roy Leventhal, 3Com 10:00 AM "Model Extraction Based on Differential TDR" Steven Corey, Time Domain Analysis Systems 10:30 AM BREAK (Refreshments from Sponsors) 10:45 AM Roundtable - Accuracy Specification Bob Haller, Compaq (Leader) 12:00 PM LUNCH (Provided to Attendees by the Sponsors) 1:00 PM Roundtable - Input Modeling Discussion Stephen Peters, Intel (Leader) 2:00 PM Roundtable - IBIS Version 4.0 Features Discussion Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics (Leader) 2:30 PM BREAK (Refreshments from Praegitzer Design) 2:45 PM "Proposed Improvements to the SPICE to IBIS Tool" Mohamed Nasef, Mentor Graphics 3:15 PM Roundtable - Spice to IBIS Discussion Mike LaBonte, Cadence 4:00 PM Roundtable - Future of User Group Discussion Ed Sayre, NESA (Leader) 5:00 PM FINAL BUSINESS AND ADJOURN **************************************************************************** DIRECTIONS TO MEETING The Marlboro Holiday Inn is located at the junction of Route 20 and I-495 (exit 24A off I-495 North or South) Located 4 miles from the Massachusetts Turnpike and One Mile from I-290. Thirty miles from Boston and Logan International Airport **************************************************************************** LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS Marlboro Holiday Inn 265 Lakeside Ave. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508)481-3000 Boxboro Holiday Inn. One Adams Place Boxboro, MA Tel: (978) 263-8701 Fax: (978) 263-0518 Royal Plaza Hotel 181 Boston Post road West Marlborough, MA 01752 Tel: (508) 460-0700 Radisson Inn 75 Felton St. Marlboro, MA Tel: (508) 480-0015 Embassy Suites Hotels 123 Boston Post Rd. West Marlboro, MA Tel: (508) 485-5900 Amerscot House 61 West Acton Road Stow, MA 01775 email: doreen@amerscot.com, web site http://www.amerscot.com Tel: (978)897-0666, FAX (978)897-6914 Westford Regency Inn 219 Littleton Rd. (exit 32 off I-495) Westford, MA Tel: (978) 692-8200 +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ | NORTH EAST SYSTEMS ASSOCIATES, INC. | | ------------------------------------- | | "High Performance Engineering & Design" | +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ | Kathy Breda e-mail: breda@nesa.com | | NESA, Inc. http://www.nesa.com/ | | 636 Great Road Tel +1.978.897-8787 | | Stow, MA 01775 USA Fax +1.978.897-5359 | +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ From owner-ibis Fri Oct 8 17:00:33 1999 Received: from tongky.sec.samsung.co.kr (user90.s136.samsung.co.kr [203.241.136.90]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA11153 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tongky.sec.samsung.co.kr ([168.219.250.88]) by tongky.sec.samsung.co.kr (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17952 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 08:56:04 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <37FE814A.AB607C8@tongky.sec.samsung.co.kr> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 08:42:02 +0900 From: Jung-Gun Byun X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [ko] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: I'd like to join IBIS Open Forum Reflector. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am Daniel Byun of Samsung Electronics in Korea. I am responsible for signal integrity simulation of PC products. Please let me get your technical information. Thanks, Daniel From owner-ibis Mon Oct 11 00:03:05 1999 Received: from bsf.alcatel.fr (root@laposte.bsf.alcatel.fr [193.104.128.7]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA19369; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail (mail.sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr [155.132.20.69]) by bsf.alcatel.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA29771; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:06:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from messti by mail (SMI-8.6/ABS1.4) id JAA13714; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:02:41 +0200 Received: from grossebaf by messti (8.8.8+Sun/ABS1.5) id JAA19141; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:02:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr by grossebaf (8.8.8+Sun/ABS1.5) id JAA08145; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:02:42 +0200 (MET DST) Sender: azema@sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr Message-ID: <38018B8D.452AE561@sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:02:38 +0200 From: Frank AZEMA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: fr, en-US, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IBIS-users@eda.org, IBIS@eda.org Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8DAB4A0A34CFE4A9E3574887" --------------8DAB4A0A34CFE4A9E3574887 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sirs, I thank everybody for your help on IBIS modelisation. Frank. -- Frank AZEMA ALCATEL BUSINESS SYSTEM Technical Direction 1 rt du Dr A. Schweitzer Tel:+33(0)3.88.67.77.00 67000 ILLKIRCH Cedex - France Fax:+33(0)3.88.67.70.83 Franck.Azema@sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr --------------8DAB4A0A34CFE4A9E3574887 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sirs,

I thank everybody for your help on IBIS modelisation.

Frank.
  

-- 
Frank AZEMA                      ALCATEL BUSINESS SYSTEM
Technical Direction             1 rt du Dr A. Schweitzer
Tel:+33(0)3.88.67.77.00    67000 ILLKIRCH Cedex - France
Fax:+33(0)3.88.67.70.83  Franck.Azema@sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr
  --------------8DAB4A0A34CFE4A9E3574887-- From owner-ibis Sun Oct 17 22:27:31 1999 Received: from florida.melco.co.jp (florida.melco.co.jp [192.218.140.46]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA29616 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by florida.melco.co.jp (3.7W-florida) id OAA09050; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:26:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by mailgw.melco.co.jp (3.7W-mailgw) id OAA04075; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:27:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by inetgw.melco.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.7W-inetgw) id OAA24637; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from islgw.isl.melco.co.jp by elgw.isl.melco.co.jp (8.8.8/3.6W) id OAA11963; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:27:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from zilch by islgw.isl.melco.co.jp (8.8.8/3.6W) id OAA13799; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:28:08 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199910180528.OAA13799@islgw.isl.melco.co.jp> X-My-Real-Login-Name: yamagi; islgw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp X-Mailer: Denshin 8 Go V321.1b7 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:22:57 +0900 From: Keitarou Yamagishi To: ibis@eda.org Cc: yamagi@isl.melco.co.jp Subject: [IBIS Ver] Keyword's argument X-MailEditor: Den8 MailEditor V1.2 Hi, I have a question concerninng with tke argument of the keyword [IBIS Ver]. Can we use only 2.1 or 3.2 for argument which is approved by EIA ? Ver2.1 -> ANSI/EIA-656 Ver3.2 -> ANSI/EIA-656-A Or can we use any versions 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1 or 3.2 published by Open Forum ? Thanks. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ /\ Keitarou Yamagishi _/ _/ / \ Mitsubishi Electric Corporation _/ _/ \ / Information Technology R&D Center _/ _/ \/ 5-1-1 Ofuna, Kamakura, _/ _/ /~~~/\~~~\ Kanagawa 247-8501 Japan _/ _/ / / \ \ Email：yamagi@isl.melco.co.jp _/ _/ ‾‾‾‾ ‾‾‾‾ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From owner-ibis Mon Oct 18 08:34:44 1999 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA01731 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id IAA02933; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id IAA01775; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <380B3DE0.DE408383@mentor.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:33:53 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keitarou Yamagishi CC: ibis@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS Ver] Keyword's argument References: <199910180528.OAA13799@islgw.isl.melco.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello: All pubished versions should work. But the actual testing will be at the Version 1.1, 2.1 or 3.2 levels. Best Regards, Bob Ross Mentor Graphics Keitarou Yamagishi wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a question concerninng with tke argument of the keyword [IBIS Ver]. > Can we use only 2.1 or 3.2 for argument which is approved by EIA ? > Ver2.1 -> ANSI/EIA-656 > Ver3.2 -> ANSI/EIA-656-A > Or can we use any versions 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1 or 3.2 published by > Open Forum ? All of these should work. > > Thanks. > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > _/ _/ > _/ /¥ Keitarou Yamagishi _/ > _/ / ¥ Mitsubishi Electric Corporation _/ > _/ ¥ / Information Technology R&D Center _/ > _/ ¥/ 5-1-1 Ofuna, Kamakura, _/ > _/ /‾‾‾/¥‾‾‾¥ Kanagawa 247-8501 Japan _/ > _/ / / ¥ ¥ Email：yamagi@isl.melco.co.jp _/ > _/ ‾‾‾‾ ‾‾‾‾ _/ > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From owner-ibis Mon Oct 18 08:43:18 1999 Received: from ganymede.or.intel.com (ganymede.or.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA01746 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (ichips-jf.jf.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ganymede.or.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.9 1999/10/15 23:57:06 lcm Exp $) with ESMTP id IAA23564; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xtg801.pdx.intel.com (xtg801.pdx.intel.com [134.134.114.35]) by ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: internal.m4,v 1.2 1998/11/09 19:18:37 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id IAA11013; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips.intel.com (localhost.pdx.intel.com [127.0.0.1]) by xtg801.pdx.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: client.m4,v 1.3 1998/09/29 16:36:11 sedayao Exp sedayao $) with ESMTP id IAA11542; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910181541.IAA11542@xtg801.pdx.intel.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: Keitarou Yamagishi cc: ibis@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS Ver] Keyword's argument In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:22:57 +0900." <199910180528.OAA13799@islgw.isl.melco.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:41:04 -0700 From: Stephen Peters Hello Mr. Yamagishi: The golden parser will accept any legal IBIS version -- basicly, the list you show below. Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. > Hi, > > I have a question concerninng with tke argument of the keyword [IBIS Ver]. > Can we use only 2.1 or 3.2 for argument which is approved by EIA ? > Ver2.1 -> ANSI/EIA-656 > Ver3.2 -> ANSI/EIA-656-A > Or can we use any versions 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1 or 3.2 published by > Open Forum ? > > Thanks. > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > _/ _/ > _/ /¥ Keitarou Yamagishi _/ > _/ / ¥ Mitsubishi Electric Corporation _/ > _/ ¥ / Information Technology R&D Center _/ > _/ ¥/ 5-1-1 Ofuna, Kamakura, _/ > _/ /‾‾‾/¥‾‾‾¥ Kanagawa 247-8501 Japan _/ > _/ / / ¥ ¥ Email：yamagi@isl.melco.co.jp _/ > _/ ‾‾‾‾ ‾‾‾‾ _/ > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From owner-ibis Mon Oct 18 11:00:59 1999 Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA02361 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.pacbell.net ([209.79.182.147]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FJT00COT8CTAK@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for ibis@vhdl.org; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:53:08 -0700 From: jonp@pacbell.net Subject: Re: [IBIS Ver] Keyword's argument To: Bob Ross , "ibis@vhdl.org" Reply-to: jonp@pacbell.net Message-id: <380B5E84.C9B48E2@postoffice.pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-PBI-NC404 (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199910180528.OAA13799@islgw.isl.melco.co.jp> <380B3DE0.DE408383@mentor.com> I actually disagree with this. While it is true that you could put any version number on a model, since the spec was changing (and being corrected) a lot, especially in the 3.x range, it is possible, and even likely that a 3.1 or 3.0 model would not be supported by EDA simulators. If you are looking for good EDA support, you should release models in the 2.1 or 3.2 levels only since they are the only "sanctioned standards". Now, this is my opinion, but I bet a buck it is a safer assumption than releasing pre-standard level 3 models. For instance, I have seen legal 3.0 models that can be legally parsed so as to generate two completely different models. We fixed this in 3.2 Jon Powell IBIS librarian Bob Ross wrote: > Hello: > > All pubished versions should work. But the actual testing will be > at the Version 1.1, 2.1 or 3.2 levels. > > Best Regards, > Bob Ross > Mentor Graphics > > Keitarou Yamagishi wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I have a question concerninng with tke argument of the keyword [IBIS Ver]. > > Can we use only 2.1 or 3.2 for argument which is approved by EIA ? > > Ver2.1 -> ANSI/EIA-656 > > Ver3.2 -> ANSI/EIA-656-A > > > Or can we use any versions 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1 or 3.2 published by > > Open Forum ? > > All of these should work. > > > > > Thanks. > > > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > > _/ _/ > > _/ /¥ Keitarou Yamagishi _/ > > _/ / ¥ Mitsubishi Electric Corporation _/ > > _/ ¥ / Information Technology R&D Center _/ > > _/ ¥/ 5-1-1 Ofuna, Kamakura, _/ > > _/ /‾‾‾/¥‾‾‾¥ Kanagawa 247-8501 Japan _/ > > _/ / / ¥ ¥ Email：yamagi@isl.melco.co.jp _/ > > _/ ‾‾‾‾ ‾‾‾‾ _/ > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From owner-ibis Mon Oct 18 12:36:59 1999 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA02709 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fmsmsx28.FM.INTEL.COM (fmsmsx28.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.28]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.9 1999/10/15 23:57:06 lcm Exp $) with ESMTP id PAA21168; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:37:10 GMT Received: by fmsmsx28.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <4YVTWW7S>; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:36:37 -0700 Message-ID: <4575832C8E71D111AC4100A0C96B512704A799E9@fmsmsx36.fm.intel.com> From: "Muranyi, Arpad" To: "'jonp@pacbell.net'" , Bob Ross , ibis@vhdl.org Subject: RE: [IBIS Ver] Keyword's argument Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:36:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" I tend to agree with Jon. There may even be slight variations in the spec which may be invalid in the "official" (1.1, 2.1 and 3.2) versions. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ============================================================== -----Original Message----- From: jonp@pacbell.net [mailto:jonp@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 10:53 AM To: Bob Ross; ibis@vhdl.org Subject: Re: [IBIS Ver] Keyword's argument I actually disagree with this. While it is true that you could put any version number on a model, since the spec was changing (and being corrected) a lot, especially in the 3.x range, it is possible, and even likely that a 3.1 or 3.0 model would not be supported by EDA simulators. If you are looking for good EDA support, you should release models in the 2.1 or 3.2 levels only since they are the only "sanctioned standards". Now, this is my opinion, but I bet a buck it is a safer assumption than releasing pre-standard level 3 models. For instance, I have seen legal 3.0 models that can be legally parsed so as to generate two completely different models. We fixed this in 3.2 Jon Powell IBIS librarian Bob Ross wrote: > Hello: > > All pubished versions should work. But the actual testing will be > at the Version 1.1, 2.1 or 3.2 levels. > > Best Regards, > Bob Ross > Mentor Graphics > > Keitarou Yamagishi wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I have a question concerninng with tke argument of the keyword [IBIS Ver]. > > Can we use only 2.1 or 3.2 for argument which is approved by EIA ? > > Ver2.1 -> ANSI/EIA-656 > > Ver3.2 -> ANSI/EIA-656-A > > > Or can we use any versions 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1 or 3.2 published by > > Open Forum ? > > All of these should work. > > > > > Thanks. > > > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > > _/ _/ > > _/ /¥ Keitarou Yamagishi _/ > > _/ / ¥ Mitsubishi Electric Corporation _/ > > _/ ¥ / Information Technology R&D Center _/ > > _/ ¥/ 5-1-1 Ofuna, Kamakura, _/ > > _/ /‾‾‾/¥‾‾‾¥ Kanagawa 247-8501 Japan _/ > > _/ / / ¥ ¥ Email：yamagi@isl.melco.co.jp _/ > > _/ ‾‾‾‾ ‾‾‾‾ _/ > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From owner-ibis Wed Oct 20 13:51:06 1999 Received: from intermailhost.viewlogic.com (intermailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.6.17]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA16326 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:51:05 -0700 (PDT) From: guy@camarillo.viewlogic.com Received: from mailhost.viewlogic.com (mailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.3.35]) by intermailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14799 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qdt.viewlogic.com (peterbilt [139.181.194.6]) by mailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA07470 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from camarillo.viewlogic.com (b1b) by qdt.viewlogic.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24473; Wed, 20 Oct 99 13:51:07 PDT Received: from f22.viewlogic.com by camarillo.viewlogic.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA02974; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:51:03 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:51:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199910202051.NAA02974@camarillo.viewlogic.com> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: EIA IBIS Summit Meeting Minutes - 10/14/99 DATE: 10/20/99 SUBJECT: 10/14/99 EIA IBIS Summit Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1999 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Neven Orhanovic, Fred Ballesteri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff* Cisco Systems Syed Huq Compaq Bob Haller*, Steve Coe*, Shafir Rahman, Maher Elasad, Peter LaFlamme*, Doug Burns* Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation Fabrizio Zanella*, Alex Nosovitski*, Shan Haq* Fairchild Semiconductor [Peter LaFlamme], Craig Klem, Graham Connolly*, Christian Klein* H.A.S. Electronics (Haruny Said) Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.) Paul Gregory, Henry Wu HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora, Kellee Crisafulli, Lynne Green, John Angulo, Gene Garat*, Robin Edwards* IBM Greg Edlund*, Michael Cohen, Praven Patel, Paul Clouser* Incases Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek, David Eagles, Wilhelm Arnoldi, Ulrich Losch Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern, Martin Chang, Dave Moxley, Kerry Nelson, Jeff Day, Richard Mellitz, Peter Liou, Will Hobbs, Henri Maramis LSI Logic (Symbios Logic) Scott King Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Mohamed Mahmoud, Sherif Hammad, Jean Oudinot, Markku Kukkanen, Martin Groeber, Karine Loudet, Hisham Gamal, Evgeny Wasserman, Tom Dagostino*, Mohamed Nasef* Mitsubishi (Tam Cao) Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre*, Michael Baxter, Kathy Breda*, Ed Sayre III*, Jinhua Chen* NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Nortel Networks Martin Hall (& at Viewlogic), Calvin Trowell* Ross Pryor* Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen, Peter Christiaans Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens Bernhard Unger, Christian Mitschke, Manfred Maurer, Peter Kaiser, Wolfram Meyer, Gerald Bannert, Harmut Ibowski, Katja Zuleeg, Hans Pichlmaier, Eckhard Lenski, Kortheuer Udo, Christian Sporrer SiQual Scott McMorrow Texas Instruments Jean-Claude Perrin, Shankar Balasubramaniah, Ramzi Ammar, Thomas Fisher Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey* Viewlogic Systems Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Cary Mandel, (Jon Powell) VeriBest Ian Dodd Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1999: 3Com Roy Leventhal* 3Dfx Interactive Ken Wu Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya Alcatel Steven Criel Analytical Edge Robert Easson Applied Microelectronics Brian Sanderson BMW Friedrich Haslinger Bogatin Enterprise Eric Bogatin Bosch Telecom Detlef Wolf Celestica Danny Da Silva Dynamics Research Corporation Mike Walsh* ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA [Patti Rusher], Cecilia Fleming, Dan Heinemeier Electronique Catherine Gross EFM Consulting Ekkehard Miersch FCI John Ellis Foxcomm Jeff Walden* General DataComm Laurence Michaels* High Design Technology Razvan Ene Hitachi ULSI Hideki Fukuda Infineon Thomas Latzel Intracon Design Mike Osmond KAW Shinichi Maeda* Litton Systems Robert Bremer Lucent Jason Pritchard* Matsushita Atsuji Itoh Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Newbridge Networks Bruce Carlile* Oce Printing Systems Ernst Deiringer Praegitzer Design Rick Newell, Paul Galloway*, Joe Socha* Rockwell Collins Susan Tweeton, Ron Hau Rode Consulting Chris Rode* Samsung Jung-Gun Byun, Cheol-Seung Choi Shindengen Tsuyoshi Horigome Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins* STMicroelectronics Fabrice Boissieres, Philippe LeFevre Stratus Keith Vieira* StorageTek Nick Krull Sun Microsystems Victor Chang*, Kevin Ko, Greg Fitzgerald*, Nick LaPlaca* Tektronix Tom Brinkoetter Teradyne Mikhail Khusid VDOL Robert Novosel Xilinx Susan Wu (Unaffiliated, Retired) Bruce Wenniger In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode October 29, 1999 (916) 356-9200 2-356762 1385866 November 19, 1999 (916) 356-9200 2-356763 7473493 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT MEETING The IBIS Summit Meeting was held all day on Thursday, October 14, 1999 at Marlborough, Massachusetts in the Holiday Inn during the week of the PCB Conference East. Forty three people representing 24 different organizations and 12 member companies participated. These minutes capture some of the discussions that took place. The presentations and other IBIS Summit Meeting material will be uploaded at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/oct99/ INTRODUCTIONS AND BUSINESS Ed Sayre opened the meeting by stating that IBIS has become too complicated and too detailed. The East coast Users group is PCB Systems oriented, not just IC buffer oriented. Ed advocated and expansion of IBIS to encompass both ICs and systems. Ed then introduced Bob Ross. Bob welcomed the newest member Nortel Networks raising the membership to 32 companies. He thanked Kathy Breda and the North East Systems Associates (NESA) staff for handling the local arrangements and being a co-sponsor. Bob also thanked the other co-sponsors, Cadence Design, HyperLynx, for the lunch and refreshments and Praegitzer Design for the afternoon break refreshments. Bob announced that the next two IBIS Summit Meetings are being planned for January 31, 2000 at DesignCon2000 in Santa Clara, California, and for March 31, 2000 at DATE2000 in Paris, France. Then everybody introduced themselves. Bob noted that the Agenda consisted of three presentations on several interesting subjects and also several topics for interactive "roundtable" discussions. NAVIGATING IBIS AT 3COM Roy Leventhal, 3Com Roy Leventhal provided recommendations to make the IBIS specification more readable, thus more readily adopted by the electronics industry. Also Roy is using the ISO 9000 methodology to break the IBIS modeling process into well-defined chunks. A number of process documents are stored internally on-line at 3Com to explain IBIS and to initiate the modeling process. According the ISO 9000 process, an on-line Simulation Model Request Form is used to initiate getting a simulation model (usually an IBIS model). It lists minimum requirements, add-ons, verification Levels and other details. The New Component Request Form informs everyone of the IBIS Standard in order to follow through on obtaining IBIS models when purchasing new components. The Carrier Systems IBIS Model Standard clearly explains the IBIS keywords and tabulates what is required by 3Com and by the IBIS Standard. Mike LaBonte noted that the signal_name entry is required by IBIS, but not by 3Com - a potential conflict. The Simulation Model Creation and Updating Process and the is the Simulation Model Verification Process are documented. Roy indicated that other documents are also provided. Roy described some of these forms in more detail along with 3Com's process for obtaining models. Along with the documents, the 3Com internal website also is used to collect IBIS and signal integrity papers. The signal integrity process document is being developed. Roy stated that the key aspect of an ISO 9000 process is to document the steps to be followed. Fabrizio Zanella asked about revision control. Roy responded that IBIS file library management is handled by concatenating the later revisions or updates of a model to the file and incrementing the revision number. Ed Sayre commented that he sees models with one level of package detail and another level for buffer detail. Stephen Peters commented that a revision control system could be implemented. Roy stated that at this time there is no dynamic process to correct IBIS file errors. The Carrier Systems IBIS Model Standard document expands and clarifies the existing standard. It is designed to be more readable by setting minimum requirements, setting up other parameters as optional or add-ons, grouping related IBIS parameters into "threads", using tables, notes and white space, explaining where to get help and more information, explaining methods for generating data and checking the IBIS file, listing common mistakes, and explaining verification methods and how to apply approval levels. The IBIS Model Syntax Guide follows the threads or groupings of the Standard, sets up parallel tables of properties to the tables in the Standard, parses out syntax and formulating rules into these tables, and follows each set of properties with related examples and notes. As a result, these documents are quite readable and provide useful tutorial material. Roy showed the sample documents at the Meeting and would like to have them reviewed. Bob Ross plans to upload the material under http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/training/ directory once a preliminary review is done and some 3Com specific material is removed. MODEL EXTRACTION BASED ON DIFFERENTIAL TDR Steven Corey, Time Domain Analysis Systems In starting the presentation, Steven Corey asked how TDR methods may be used in developing IBIS models. Steve then presented and overview of TDR methods extended for differential lines. The even mode impedances and delays are greater than the corresponding self impedances and delays which in turn are greater than the corresponding odd mode impedances and delays. Steve showed two equivalent models for symmetrical coupled lines. One of Steve's main points is that the model can then be used even when the differential inputs are not symmetrical. These techniques could be used for characterizing connectors, package leads, and board traces. The parameters are compatible with the proposed IBIS Connector Specification. The open question is whether the technique can be extended to n conductors. Perhaps a decomposition theorem could be applied, in spite of limitations regarding distributed networks. Arpad Muranyi commented later that perhaps conductors could be handled two at a time and the results superimposed. Steve stated that the process is not so simple. During the presentation and discussions, a number of other points were mentioned. A phase shifter is employed in the equipment to assure that the differential pulses inputs arrive at the same time. Steve showed an example of an SMA connector extraction where the coupled and uncoupled regions can be isolated. Steve noted that there are TDR measurement, risetime and fixturing factors. Up to some frequency, a lumped model serves as well as a distributed model. Ed Sayre commented that opens, shorts and through connections could be used. Steve showed impedance profiles overlayed with measurements. Arpad asked about decomposing even and odd mode impedances when dealing with small sections with no defined level regions. Steve responded that the post processing steps still handle this situation accurately. Greg Edlund asked about on the virtual ground associated with multi-row connectors when the paths are of different length. Steve mentioned that some asymmetry can be dealt with using perturbation theory as an approximation and departure from TEM theory. Shinichi Maeda questioned whether the results apply at high frequencies, such as 20 GHz. Steve commented that the TDR methodology gives the same results as network analyzer methods. Ed Sayre emphasized that this work is important when considering the analysis problem from the systems I/O point of view. ROUNDTABLE - ACCURACY SPECIFICATION Bob Haller, Compaq (Leader) Bob Haller introduced the IBIS Accuracy discussion by defining it as an attempt to create a document of understanding between model creators (semiconductor vendors) and model users (semiconductor customers). It is a consistent quantitative method to document the correlation work performed. It is not a pass-fail document. Bob then opened the discussion by starting with some points that have already been raised. Bob Ross had commented that the document needs a reality check. So far committee has not applied the document to any real device. One of the key outputs is the accuracy trailer. By trying it on a real device, new issues related to the accuracy of the measurements, description of the test board (versus actual implementation), the completion and clarity of the trailer document and the described processes themselves will be tested. The practical issues need to be uncovered in order for the document to be used by others. Bob Haller commented that Joe Socha has volunteered to design new revisions of the accuracy test board and Bob Haller will provide the boards to interested parties for free. The electronic data base is in Allegro format. Several people had raised concerns about applying the document to complex devices such as DRAMS. Arpad Muranyi, Tom Dagostino, and others commented that they have processes and equipment to do successful hardware extractions. Stephen Peters stated that a JTAG interface helps the process. The Accuracy Specification is intended for semiconductor producers. However, there is advantage to having unbiased third parties doing the testing. Roy Leventhal commented that compliance with a specification builds confidence in the models. Greg Edlund commented on the three levels of correlation and then asked whether the semiconductor vendors could hand pick accurate corner test parts for fast and slow cases. Graham Connelly stated that he could get corner parts within about a 10 percent tolerance. Arpad and Greg also reported the ability to hand-pick parts. Roy Leventhal commented that the accuracy specification process would be used to build confidence in the devices. The Accuracy Specification is intended to validate the model, not the simulation tool. A reference waveform, perhaps a Spice extraction, could be included. Several purposes of IBIS were stated: Provide simulation models without revealing intellectual property, Provide models for course simulation, Provide models which simulation very quickly, Format data for prototype device development, and Provide models suitable for transmission line and large signal simulations. To conclude, Bob Haller noted reinforced that activities for a reality check were underway. Bob Haller and Peter LaFlamme will retake the data and generate a trailer for the VCX16244. Greg Edlund plans to work and generate an I/O buffer Correlation report by DesignCon2000 using the ALVCH16832. Bob Ross then in showed portions of an internal presentation that discussed the IBIS Accuracy Specification in order to give an overall perspective of the document. (These slides will also be uploaded.) Bob briefly mentioned these points: Goal (actual measurement versus simulation), Measurement Specification, Correlation Definitions, Documentation (accuracy trailer), Compare against Model Data, Compare against Simulations, and Table Comparison Metrics and Issues. ROUNDTABLE - INPUT MODELING DISCUSSION Stephen Peters, Intel (Leader) Stephen Peters gave a brief presentation on Behavioral Receivers. Stephen outlined the history of the group and stated that BIRDs 61-63 have been issued and BIRD64 is still being planned. BIRD61 Characterizes a receiver based on the theory that the receiver input delay is dependent on the input overdrive and input edge rate. Tables are created and the assumption is that the simulator can create a behavioral model based on this table. However, how to use the table still remains an open issue. The delay differences could be looked up directly, could be used to create coefficients to an equation or could be used to tweak and select a standard model. So far no input model or equation has been proposed, so we cannot determine what are the table minimum requirements. Upon questioning, Stephen clarified that the receiver delay table is intended for an Input buffer, not an output buffer. Todd Westerhoff indicated that a behavioral abstraction could be done by breaking the input into behavioral blocks for pulse rejection, gain-bandwidth, and overdrive. Perhaps the subcircuit capability in IBIS could be used. Tom Dagostino questioned whether hysteresis inputs was captured with the proposed tables. Stephen thought it was. BIRD62 was introduced to deal with enhanced receiver specifications. The traditional methodology based on Vinh and Vinl values are inadequate because the limits are too wide, ringback is not considered, and newer technologies have thresholds base on Vcc. Stephen then gave a synopsis of BIRD62 details showing how Vth may track Vcc using Vth_sensitivity and how Vth can vary with process and tolerances using Vth_min and Vth_max. Todd Westerhoff expressed concern that the new proposal still might have some ambiguity. For example, the rising input signal could pass through Vinh_ac, then dip below Vinh_dc and then recover to a level above Vinh_dc. What is the actual delay? This question also would apply to BIRD61. A general open issue remains on whether [Model Spec] could still be used. BIRD63 documents the test loads for setup and hold conditions. The proposal is similar to BIRD62. Stephen listed two open issues: Are different slew rates needed, and does Vth = 0 mean differential? Tom cited the case for ECL where a 0 value threshold may be used for single ended buffers. Bob Ross advocated a separate keyword. ROUNDTABLE - IBIS VERSION 4.0 FEATURES DISCUSSION Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics (Leader) Bob Ross provided a general outline of some major IBIS Open Forum and IBIS User Group Activities (some of which may not be currently active) to put the Version 4.0 in context and to illustrate that we have been focusing on the first three activities. Version 3.2 Standards Development ANSI/EIA-656-A ratification (Done) IEC 62014-1 (Version 2.1) and IEC 62014-2 (Version 3.2) ratification IBISCHK3 Development (Done) Meetings (Teleconference and four Summits) Ongoing Outside Contacts (EIAJ-IMIC, JEDEC, IEC-EMC) Accuracy Specification Connector Specification Spice to IBIS Education Miscellaneous (Cookbook, Model Review, etc.) Version 4.0 Development Bob then introduced some general and specific items for consideration for Version 4.0 more were added during the discussion the lists along with general priorities (mostly high) and with some regrouping: High: Equation Based Modeling Linkages or Adoption IMIC Spice Nodal Descriptons Table Spice (IMIC Devices) Application Programmable Interface (API) - (Prevent More Keywords) Modularity and System Description (New Paradigm) Connectors and Packages G Matrix Losses (Skin Effect, Dielectric, Frequency Dependent) Swath Matrix Accuracy Specification Reference Waveforms Trailer Low: Incorporation of Timing Not Classified: EMI Extensions (Physical Dimensions, etc.) Some specific features were also considered for classification: High: Input Modeling BIRDs 61-63 Independent Vmeas for Rising and Falling Differential over/undershoots Differential Waveforms, test loads SSO and Power and Ground Bounce (and Return Currents) Behavioral Approach or (BIRD42.3) C_comp Connected to Vcc, Gnd Low: Feedback (This never has been defined.) Switched Series MOSFET Not Classified: 100 Point Table Limit Bob Ross noted that we consider all requests for extensions when they are proposed. Arpad Muranyi stated that certain small extensions can be dealt with quickly and plans to make a proposal regarding C_comp. Arpad also questioned how soon Verison 4.0 would be available. Bob did not know. Arpad suggested the possibility of holding teleconference meetings every two weeks. Others proposed the possibility of devoting some entire meetings to one subject. PROPOSED IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SPICE TO IBIS TOOL Mohamed Nasef, Mentor Graphics Mohamed Nasef discussed described five areas of improvement to the existing North Carolina State University s2ibis2 version 1.1 tool. Three involved V-I table extraction improvements, and two involved V-T extraction improvements. They are: 1. Avoid double counting of V-I tables for 3-state buffers in the clamp regions. This is accomplished by doing the clamp extraction over the entire range from -Vcc to 2 Vcc and subtracting this data from the extracted pull down or pullup tables. 2. Model internal pullup and pulldown terminators. The method to avoid double counting is used to subtract the total clamp data from the pull up and pull down extractions. The internal terminators then are extracted and positioned either in the [Power Clamp] table or the [Gnd Clamp] table in a manner which avoids double counting of the clamp information. 3. Optionally extrapolate the clamp table data to the full -Vcc to 2 Vcc range, if needed when the subtraction causes non-monotonic behavior because of loss of resolution, by either horizontal extension of the tables or by linear extrapolation of the tables. 4. Maximize resolution and Spice table extraction accuracy by taking setting the time step to 1 ps and then taking 100 points over the specified simulation time range. The current tool takes 50 points and loses accuracy by not forcing small steps. 5. Use the minimum simulation time for each [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] extraction. The s2ibis2 command file can be extended to allow independent simulation times for each waveform. During the presentation, Mohamed showed graphs illustrating the need for these improvements. Mohamed mentioned that these improvements have been implemented in scripts and not in the public domain s2ibis2 code. Moreover, Mohamed has tested these using a Mentor Graphics Spice: Eldo, but the scripts can be used for any Spice. More work is needed to complete the scripts. Mohamed does not know yet whether these scripts will be made publicly available. ROUNDTABLE - SPICE TO IBIS DISCUSSION Mike LaBonte, Cadence Design (Leader) Mike LaBonte announced that a SpiTran graphical interface that was discussed at the June 21, 1999 IBIS Summit Meeting has been uploaded and is now available under: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/s2ibis/spitran/ A link is being put in from the Free Tools link of the EIA IBIS Open Forum home page. Refer to index.html for more details. The utility is written in JAVA to make it platform independent. Mike then gave a brief summary of the work done since the June 21, 1999 IBIS Summit meeting. Syed Huq is drafting a project requirements document. The intent is to finalize the requirements and then ask for bids on the project. We then need to determine how to fund the project. Some open questions are: Will there be a built in GUI? Will it have more support for IBIS Version 3.2 features, and Will it be able to support some possible Verison 4.X features? Mike attached and reviewed a few of the key requirements that are currently being considered. Mike stressed that two platforms (UNIX and Windows NT) would need to be supported. HSPICE and Berkeley Spices would be supported. Some optional features may be listed for a separate bid. Support for other platforms and Spices is intended, but actual testing would be done by committee members, not by the contractor. The requirements also deal with some flexibility related to extrapolation of tables and selection of number of points. Algorithms are needed for such selection. Also C_comp extraction is considered as a separate, optional extension to be bid on separately. The discussion extended into Spice models for packages. Roy Leventhal commented as part of a systems oriented approach that both the die and package models should be portable. Arpad Muranyi suggested the possibility of a [Package Selector] keyword similar to [Model Selector]. New ideas also include [Series MOSFET] table extractions. However, the tool would not extract some parts of IBIS Version 3.2 such as bus hold data directly because such decomposition is very difficult. FINAL MISCELLANEOUS DISCUSSIONS (Unscheduled) As part of some additional introductions, Chris Rode talked about interactive Web based tools. These consist of Interactive magazine articles and of actual tools. There exists a link for ChipCenter which is supported by several magazines: http://www.chipcenter.com/signalintegrity/main.html Included are on-line articles and some on-line interactive tutorial utilities. Chris sees the next generation of Web pages to be more interactive, both for magazine articles and for training. Chris prepares article for this page and also is interested in some more IBIS content. Bob Ross would like both Chris and Roy Leventhal to be involved in the IBIS educational activities. ROUNDTABLE - FUTURE OF USER GROUP DISCUSSION Ed Sayre, North East Systems Associates (NESA) (Leader) Ed Sayre headed up a general concluding discussion that covered a number of assorted topics. Ed again stressed the users group point of view to go beyond just the buffer. Several people commented on the difficulty of finding enough good signal integrity graduates from the universities. After thanking everyone for contributing, the meeting was concluded. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, October 29, 1999 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@viewlogic.com Senior Manager, Viewlogic Systems 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Signal Integrity Engineer, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 mbflora@hyperlynx.com Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 114715 N.E. 95th Street Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================== From owner-ibis Fri Oct 22 12:10:09 1999 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA29447 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id MAA03257; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id MAA24834; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <3810B65C.53FEF8FC@mentor.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:09:16 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS Meeting 10/29/99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 10/29/99 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode (916) 356-9200 2-356762 1385866 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Ross - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Ross - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Ross/Fleming - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Ross - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Powell, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) Ross/Fleming - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) Raghuram/Ross - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) Perrin - JEDEC JC-16.2 Modeling and Testing Sessions IBIS Summit October 14, 1999 Review Ross Future IBIS Summits Ross - DesignCon2000 Planning - DATE2000 Planning S2ibis3 Committee Activities Cohen IBIS Dues and Funding Ross New IBIS Officer Postions Ross Cookbook Status Peters IBIS Model Review Committee Flora New Administrative Issues All 9:00 Technical Discussion IBISCHK3 Bug Status and Plan Ross/Flora/Rokusek - BUG34 - No Error Reported for Missing V/I Tables in Output Buffers BIRD61 - Enhanced Characterization of Receivers Peters BIRD62 - Enhanced Chararcterization of Receiver Peters Thresholds BIRD63 - Documentation of Receiver Setup and Hold Peters Timing Conditions API Discussion Peters Connector Proposal Status Flora New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Peters 9:55 Sign Off From owner-ibis Mon Oct 25 17:01:29 1999 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA14020 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id RAA07961; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id RAA17361; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <3814EF20.B31F8D4B@mentor.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:00:32 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS BIRD64 - Package Model Selector Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To IBIS Committee: Arpad Muranyi is submitting BIRD64 - Package Model Selector. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics ******************************************************************************* ******************************************************************************* BIRD ID#: 64 ISSUE TITLE: Package Model Selector REQUESTER: Arpad Muranyi, Intel DATE SUBMITTED: 10-25-99 DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: Pending ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: The current IBIS specification (3.2) does not provide a selection mechanism for multiple package models. This may be necessary when a certain die is shipped in various package styles, or when the corner cases of the package are described with different package models. This BIRD is written to provide an easy solution to this deficiency. This feature will allow simulator tools to implement a user friendly package model selection interface and/or better automation for batch and sweep simulations. ****************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: A new keyword shall be introduced in the IBIS specification to provide a user friendly package model selection mechanism for components which use multiple package models. The proposed keyword [Package Model Selector] shall contain a list of all package model names that the simulator can pick from. The first entry in the list is considered to be the default package model. The package model names listed under the [Package Model Selector] must follow the rules for the package model names associated with the [Package Model] keyword. To help the user of the simulator tool to make an intelligent choice, a description must appear on the right of each of the package model names in this list. The description field can have multiple words as in free flowing text, but shall not extend beyond the 80 character line length limitation. (Same rules as in the [Model Selector] keyword.) |============================================================================= | Keyword: [Package Model Selector] | Required: No. | Description: Used to select a package model from a list package models. | Sub-Params: None. | Usage Rules: The [Package Model Selector] keyword can be used in place of | the [Package Model] keyword. The only difference between the | two keywords is that the [Package Model Selector] allows | multiple package models to be listed. All package model names | must appear below the [Package Model Selector] keyword. | | The first entry under the [Package Model selector] keyword | shall be considered the default by the simulator tool. | | [Package Model Selector] | 208-BGA-pkg-even BGA - Even mode single line equivalent package 208-BGA-pkg-odd BGA - Odd mode single line equivalent package 208-PQFP-pkg-even PQFP - Even mode single line equivalent package 208-PQFP-pkg-odd PQFP - Odd mode single line equivalent package | ****************************************************************************** ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: Problem statement Some components are shipped in multiple package styles. Also, there are situations when the corner cases of a package are modeled with multiple package models. Currently, in these cases the user of the IBIS model has to manually edit the IBIS file to change the package model name that is called by the [Package Model] keyword in order to reference a different package model. This makes automated simulations difficult, if not impossible. Possible solutions Add a new, simple keyword to the IBIS specification which works similar to the already existing [Model Selector] keyword. ****************************************************************************** ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: Several IBIS model users expressed their desire in private conversations and IBIS meetings to have such a package model selection mechanism in the IBIS specification to make their work easier. An alternate syntax was suggested by Bob Ross during an EMAIL and telephone correspondence on 10-25-99. The suggested syntax is identical to the [Model Selector] syntax, according to which the [Package Model Selector] would be assigned a name that is called by the (higher level) [Package Model] keyword. However, unlike in the [Model Selector] case, there is no need for calling the [Package Model Selector] from a higher level. This BIRD favors the simpler vs. the more consistent approach. ****************************************************************************** From owner-ibis Tue Oct 26 13:21:20 1999 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com (e2.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.102]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA20086 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:21:19 -0700 (PDT) From: micohen@us.ibm.com Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA104218 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:20:13 -0400 Received: from d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com (d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com [9.67.228.36]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/NCO v2.06) with SMTP id QAA59704 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:20:46 -0400 Received: by d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 85256816.006FC5B1 ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:20:51 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMUS To: ibis@eda.org Message-ID: <85256816.006FC370.00@d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:20:12 -0400 Subject: Re: IBIS BIRD64 - Package Model Selector Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Arpad, The "[Package Model Selector]" keyword idea is great. I agree 100% that this is needed in the next generation IBIS (IBIS 4.0). However, I do think that for the corner situations (TYP, MIN, MAX), we need to have a different keyword or structure. Or do we? I am looking for some discussion from the IBIS community on this matter. Does it make sense to use a "typical" package model for all three simulations (MIN, TYP, MAX)? Does it make sense to use a MIN package model in a MAX simulation? Regards, Michael Cohen IBM Personal Systems Group Design Tools Department D-26D/B-201/R-D104H 3039 Cornwallis Road Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 Phone: 919-543-4042 (T/L 441-4042) FAX: 919-543-8221 (T/L 441-8221) Internet Address: micohen@us.ibm.com From owner-ibis Tue Oct 26 14:55:08 1999 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA20826 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id OAA19211; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id OAA18871; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <38162307.80880EC7@mentor.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:54:15 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS BIRD65 - C_comp Refinements Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To IBIS Committee: Arpad Muranyi has issued BIRD65 below. Both BIRD64 and BIRD65 will be introduced at the IBIS Meeting on Friday, October 29, 1999. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** BIRD ID#: 65 ISSUE TITLE: C_comp Refinements REQUESTER: Arpad Muranyi, Intel DATE SUBMITTED: 10-25-99 DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: Pending ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: Currently, the IBIS specification (v3.2) uses a single constant value for describing the total die capacitance as seen at the pad. This value is given by the subparameter C_comp under the [Model] keyword. The specification does not mention how this capacitance is distributed between the power and ground references, or how it should be connected to the circuit. ****************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: Four new subparameters shall be introduced in the IBIS specification under the [Model] keyword to provide means for a more detailed description for the die capacitance. These new subparameters, C_comp_pu, C_comp_pd, C_comp_pcl, and C_comp_gcl are associated to the corresponding voltage reference keywords, [Pullup Reference], [Pulldown Reference], [Power Clamp Reference], and [GND Clamp Reference], respectively. This mechanism allows the association of a specific capacitance between the I/O node and the four possible supply nodes without disturbing the submodel syntax. The syntax of these four new subparameters are identical to the existing C_comp subparameter. Should we add voltage dependencies here with tables? |============================================================================= | Keyword: [Model] | Required: Yes. | Description: Used to define a model, and its attributes. |* Sub-Params: Model_type, Polarity, Enable, Vinl, Vinh, C_comp, C_comp_pu, |* C_comp_pd, C_comp_pcl, and C_comp_gcl Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref | Usage Rules: Each model type must begin with the keyword [Model]. The | model name must match the one that is listed under a [Pin], | [Model Selector] or [Series Pin Mapping] keyword and must not | contain more than 20 characters. A .ibs file must contain | enough [Model] keywords to cover all of the model names | specified under the [Pin], [Model Selector] and [Series Pin | Mapping] keywords, except for those model names that use | reserved words (POWER, GND and NC). | | Model_type must be one of the following: | | Input, Output, I/O, 3-state, Open_drain, I/O_open_drain, | Open_sink, I/O_open_sink, Open_source, I/O_open_source, | Input_ECL, Output_ECL, I/O_ECL, 3-state_ECL, Terminator, | Series, and Series_switch. | | Special usage rules apply to the following. Some definitions | are included for clarification: | | Input These model types must have Vinl and Vinh | I/O defined. If they are not defined, the | I/O_open_drain parser issues a warning and the default | I/O_open_sink values of Vinl = 0.8 V and Vinh = 2.0 V are | I/O_open_source assumed. | | Input_ECL These model types must have Vinl and Vinh | I/O_ECL defined. If they are not defined, the | parser issues a warning and the default | values of Vinl = -1.475 V and Vinh = | -1.165 V are assumed. | | Terminator This model type is an input-only model | that can have analog loading effects on the | circuit being simulated but has no digital | logic thresholds. Examples of Terminators | are: capacitors, termination diodes, and | pullup resistors. | | Output This model type indicates that an output | always sources and/or sinks current and | cannot be disabled. | | 3-state This model type indicates that an output | can be disabled, i.e. put into a high | impedance state. | | Open_sink These model types indicate that the output | Open_drain has an OPEN side (do not use the [Pullup] | keyword, or if it must be used, set I = | 0 mA for all voltages specified) and the | output SINKS current. Open_drain model | type is retained for backward | compatibility. | | Open_source This model type indicates that the output | has an OPEN side (do not use the [Pulldown] | keyword, or if it must be used, set I = | 0 mA for all voltages specified) and the | output SOURCES current. | | Input_ECL These model types specify that the model | Output_ECL represents an ECL type logic that follows | I/O_ECL different conventions for the [Pulldown] | 3-state_ECL keyword. | | Series This model type is for series models that | can be described by [R Series], [L Series], | [Rl Series], [C Series], [Lc Series], | [Rc Series], [Series Current] and [Series | MOSFET] keywords | | Series_switch This model type is for series switch | models that can be described by [On], | [Off], [R Series], [L Series], [Rl Series], | [C Series], [Lc Series], [Rc Series], | [Series Current] and [Series MOSFET] | keywords | |* The Model_type subparameter is required. The C_comp |* subparameter is only required if C_comp_pu, C_comp_pd, |* C_comp_pcl, and C_comp_gcl are not present, or the C_comp_pu, |* C_comp_pd, C_comp_pcl, and C_comp_gcl subparameters are |* required if the C_comp subparameter is not present. | | The Polarity, Enable, Vinl, Vinh, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, and Vref |* subparameters are optional. C_comp* define the silicon die |* capacitance. Thse values should not include the capacitance |* of the package. C_comp* are allowed to use "NA" for the min | and max values only. The Polarity subparameter can be | defined as either Non-Inverting or Inverting, and the Enable | subparameter can be defined as either Active-High or | Active-Low. | | The Cref and Rref subparameters correspond to the test load | that the semiconductor vendor uses when specifying the | propagation delay and/or output switching time of the model. | The Vmeas subparameter is the reference voltage level that the | semiconductor vendor uses for the model. Include Cref, Rref, | Vref, and Vmeas information to facilitate board-level timing | simulation. The assumed connections for Cref, Rref, and Vref | are shown in the following diagram: | | _________ | | | | | |¥ | Rref | |Driver| ¥|------o----/¥/¥/¥----o Vref | | | /| | | | |/ | === Cref | |_________| | | | | GND | | Other Notes: A complete [Model] description normally contains the following | keywords: [Voltage Range], [Pullup], [Pulldown], [GND Clamp], | [POWER Clamp], and [Ramp]. A Terminator model uses one or | more of the [Rgnd], [Rpower], [Rac], and [Cac]. However, some | models may have only a subset of these keywords. For example, | an input structure normally only needs the [Voltage Range], | [GND Clamp], and possibly the [POWER Clamp] keywords. If one | or more of [Rgnd], [Rpower], [Rac], and [Cac] keywords are | used, then the Model_type must be Terminator. |----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Signals CLK1, CLK2,... | Optional signal list, if desired [Model] Clockbuffer Model_type I/O Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-High Vinl = 0.8V | input logic "low" DC voltage, if any Vinh = 2.0V | input logic "high" DC voltage, if any Vmeas = 1.5V | Reference voltage for timing measurements Cref = 50pF | Timing specification test load capacitance value Rref = 500 | Timing specification test load resistance value Vref = 0 | Timing specification test load voltage | variable typ min max C_comp 12.0pF 10.0pF 15.0pF | |============================================================================= | [Model] Clockbuffer Model_type I/O Vinl = 0.8V | input logic "low" DC voltage, if any Vinh = 2.0V | input logic "high" DC voltage, if any | | variable typ min max C_comp_pu 3.0pF 2.5pF 3.5pF C_comp_pd 2.0pF 1.5pF 2.5pF C_comp_pcl 1.0pF 0.5pF 1.5pF C_comp_gcl 1.0pF 0.5pF 1.5pF | ****************************************************************************** ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: Problem statement The single (constant) C_comp value of the current IBIS specification (v3.2) does not provide enough information for the simulator to accurately simulate high speed signals and/or ground and supply noise. In order to simulate the signal current return path and/or supply rail noise (GND bounce and/or Vcc droop) accurately, a model needs to provide more detail on the distribution of the total die capacitance between the I/O pad, power and ground references. This BIRD attempts to provide the means for incorporating such information in a model. The existing C_comp subparameter does not specify how it should be connected between the I/O pad and the supply rails. Most naturally it will end up getting connected to the I/O node and ground. However, since it not only represents the capacitance of the pulldown device, but also the capacitance of the pullup device, one should split it between the I/O pin and ground, and the I/O pin and power rails. One can easily see that this configuration forms a series combination of two capacitances between power and ground. Simulations show a significant difference in the waveforms for the distributed or lumped capacitance when power and ground nodes of the die are connected through the package parasitics to the ideal power source(s). Possible solutions 1) Specify splitting factor coefficients 2) Use a new subparameter under each voltage reference keyword 3) Use a new subparameter under each I-V curve 4) Use four new subparameters under the [Model] keyword (as presented in this BIRD). ****************************************************************************** ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: The voltage dependency of the die capacitance should also be addressed at some point. (Use typ., min., max, capacitance vs. voltage tables instead of single values)? ****************************************************************************** From owner-ibis Tue Oct 26 14:59:19 1999 Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA20858 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 17792 invoked by alias); 26 Oct 1999 21:58:52 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-ibis@eda.org@fixme Received: (qmail 17764 invoked by uid 0); 26 Oct 1999 21:58:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vasthorizons.com) (63.225.95.6) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 21:58:51 -0000 Message-ID: <3816241D.D006E4B@vasthorizons.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:58:53 -0700 From: Scott McMorrow Reply-To: scott@vasthorizons.com Organization: SiQual X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: ibis@eda.org Subject: Re: IBIS BIRD64 - Package Model Selector References: <85256816.006FC370.00@d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5E1512792333B749D11C0A33" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5E1512792333B749D11C0A33 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael and Arpad, It certainly makes sense to perform multiple combinations of simulations with Min/Max packages and device models. Simulation corners are very interesting things. Often the least thought of combination gives the greatest problems. Max I/V curves and Min package model would be useful for hold time simulations, as also would Min I/V curves and Min package. regards, scott micohen@us.ibm.com wrote: > Arpad, > > The "[Package Model Selector]" keyword idea is great. I agree 100% that > this is needed in the next generation IBIS (IBIS 4.0). > > However, I do think that for the corner situations (TYP, MIN, MAX), we need > to have a different keyword or structure. Or do we? I am looking for some > discussion from the IBIS community on this matter. Does it make sense to > use a "typical" package model for all three simulations (MIN, TYP, MAX)? > Does it make sense to use a MIN package model in a MAX simulation? > > Regards, > Michael Cohen > > IBM Personal Systems Group > Design Tools Department > D-26D/B-201/R-D104H > 3039 Cornwallis Road > Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 > > Phone: 919-543-4042 (T/L 441-4042) > FAX: 919-543-8221 (T/L 441-8221) > Internet Address: micohen@us.ibm.com -- Scott McMorrow Principal Engineer SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering 18735 SW Boones Ferry Road Tualatin, OR 97062-3090 (503) 885-1231 http://www.siqual.com --------------5E1512792333B749D11C0A33 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="scott.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Scott McMorrow Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="scott.vcf" begin:vcard n:McMorrow;Scott tel;work:503-708-4320 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.siqual.com org:SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering adr:;;18735 SW Boones Ferry Road;Tualatin ;OR;97062-3090;USA version:2.1 email;internet:scott@vasthorizons.com title:Principal Engineer note:asdfsdaf fn:Scott McMorrow end:vcard --------------5E1512792333B749D11C0A33-- From owner-ibis Tue Oct 26 23:03:37 1999 Received: from oliver.al.dynip.com (root@209-63-189-80.sea.jps.net [209.63.189.80]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA22478 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by oliver.al.dynip.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id WAA09079; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:56:20 -0700 From: Al Davis To: micohen@us.ibm.com, ibis@eda.org Subject: Re: IBIS BIRD64 - Package Model Selector Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:40:04 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.20] Content-Type: text/plain References: <85256816.006FC370.00@d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99102622561904.16803@oliver.al.dynip.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, micohen@us.ibm.com wrote: > However, I do think that for the corner situations (TYP, MIN, MAX), we need > to have a different keyword or structure. Or do we? I am looking for some > discussion from the IBIS community on this matter. Does it make sense to > use a "typical" package model for all three simulations (MIN, TYP, MAX)? > Does it make sense to use a MIN package model in a MAX simulation? Lots of combinations of typ/min/max make sense. I suppose even a completely arbitrary mix makes sense. A simulator could do this now, without any changes to the spec. Current simulators are not exploiting nearly the capability that the existing spec allows. Desiging a reasonable user interface would be a real challenge. Let's leave the spec alone, and let the simulator makers figure out how to do it. I am confused by the comment about an "alternate syntax". It is not clear from the spec how this is placed within the file. Logically, it can only go at top level. I suppose this would be implicitly stated by the position in the spec. From owner-ibis Wed Oct 27 09:03:04 1999 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA26954 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id JAA01128; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id JAA07558; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <38172201.3FEC0969@mentor.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:02:09 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS Funding Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To IBIS Committee: In preparation for the discussion on IBIS Funding on Friday, October 29, 1999 here are some revised budget numbers for Year 2000. The Income assumes the current rate of $500 per member company and 30 member companies (we currently have 32). We currently use Fees & Assessments for special projects (Professional Services) such as ibischk3 funding. Unlike previous years, the IBIS treasury will retain any money in excess of Expenses. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics INCOME IBIS Membership Dues $15,000 Other Income 1,000 Fees & Assessments EXPENSES Basis: ------------------------------ IBIS Budget Salaries and Benefits $9,000 Interest Expense Not Allocated Occupancy 610 Bad debts Not Allocated Depreciation 250 Printing 200 Postage 150 Freight & Delivery 100 Travel & Entertainment 2,000 Telephone 200 Meetings and Conference Exp. 2,000 Professional Services Direct Expense Memberships & Subscriptions Not Allocated Web Site Services Not Allocated Advertising & Promotions 500 Show Expenses (Deleted) Office Supplies & Misc. 700 ------- Total Exp. Before Corp. Alloc. 15,710 Corporate EIA 4,000 ------- Total Expenses 19,710 ------- Projected Loss 3,710 From owner-ibis Wed Oct 27 09:26:55 1999 Received: from pop.nwlink.com (pop.nwlink.com [209.20.130.39]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA27076 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip210.c246.blk1.bel.nwlink.com (ip210.c246.blk1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.246.210]) by pop.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04492 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hyperlynx.com by ip210.c246.blk1.bel.nwlink.com via smtpd (for pop.nwlink.com [209.20.130.39]) with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 16:28:36 UT Received: from hlgw.hyperlynx.com ([192.168.148.149]) by hazard.hyperlynx.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA32675 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:27:53 -0700 Message-ID: <002901bf2098$79ac3530$9594a8c0@hyperlynx.com> From: "Matthew Flora" To: Received: from SQUIDGE by hlgw.hyperlynx.com via smtpd (for mail.hyperlynx.com [192.168.149.2]) with SMTP; 27 Oct 1999 16:28:35 UT References: <3814EF20.B31F8D4B@mentor.com> Subject: Re: IBIS BIRD64 - Package Model Selector Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:29:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Dear Arpad, > An alternate syntax was suggested by Bob Ross during an EMAIL and telephone > correspondence on 10-25-99. The suggested syntax is identical to the [Model > Selector] syntax, according to which the [Package Model Selector] would be > assigned a name that is called by the (higher level) [Package Model] keyword. > However, unlike in the [Model Selector] case, there is no need for calling the > [Package Model Selector] from a higher level. This BIRD favors the simpler > vs. the more consistent approach. I'm afraid I prefer the consistent approach over the "simpler" approach. In fact, I feel that having the [Package Model Selector] be completely consistent with [Model Selector] is the simpler approach to use because you won't need to remember any difference between them. So, what I'm saying is, I'd like to have the means by which a named [Package Model Selector] is referenced by a [Model] be by specifying the name of the [Package Model Selector] in the argument to the [Package Model] keyword in the [Model]. Regards, Matthew Flora Senior Engineer HyperLynx (425) 869-2320 PH (425) 881-1008 FAX mbflora@hyperlynx.com 14715 NE 95th Street, Suite 200, Redmond, WA 98052 USA From owner-ibis Wed Oct 27 11:36:42 1999 Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA28012 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id LAA29628; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zip.Cadence.COM(158.140.103.36) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma941049373.029596; Wed, 27 Oct 99 11:36:13 -0700 Received: from cadence.com (d15814010551 [158.140.105.51]) by zip.Cadence.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08266; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38174605.A018D203@cadence.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:35:49 -0400 From: Mike LaBonte Organization: Cadence Design Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Flora CC: ibis@eda.org Subject: Re: IBIS BIRD64 - Package Model Selector References: <3814EF20.B31F8D4B@mentor.com> <002901bf2098$79ac3530$9594a8c0@hyperlynx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matthew, I assume you meant to use [Component] instead of [Model], because only components have [Package Model] references. But I agree with your comments about consistent use of [* Selector] keywords. But my other thoughts about [Package Model Selector] are: 1) Seeing a [Package Model] statement and not knowing immediately whether the value is actually a package model name or just a key referencing a [Package Model Selector] entry is not comforting. This is an existing problem with [Model Selector], in my opinion. 2) Users probably will want simulators to transparently select typical, minimum, and maximum package models for the corresponding simulations. But if the [Package Model Selector] keywords given are "Sears Good Package", "Sears Better Package", and "Sears Best Package", the simulator will need help deciding which of these is typical, minimum, or maximum. If it is likely that there will be fast, typical, slow versions of package models, then maybe we should provide a means for communicating this. The minimum impact method might be something like: [Package Model] BGA_typ BGA_min BGA_max where the min and max entries are allowed but optional in versions above IBIS 3.2. Even if we go with the [Package Model Selector] approach, maybe the selector definition entries should allow for typ, min, and max? Mike Mike LaBonte Matthew Flora wrote: > > Dear Arpad, > > > An alternate syntax was suggested by Bob Ross during an EMAIL and telephone > > correspondence on 10-25-99. The suggested syntax is identical to the [Model > > Selector] syntax, according to which the [Package Model Selector] would be > > assigned a name that is called by the (higher level) [Package Model] > keyword. > > However, unlike in the [Model Selector] case, there is no need for calling > the > > [Package Model Selector] from a higher level. This BIRD favors the simpler > > vs. the more consistent approach. > > I'm afraid I prefer the consistent approach over the "simpler" approach. In > fact, I feel that having the [Package Model Selector] be completely consistent > with [Model Selector] is the simpler approach to use because you won't need to > remember any difference between them. > > So, what I'm saying is, I'd like to have the means by which a named [Package > Model Selector] is referenced by a [Model] be by specifying the name of the > [Package Model Selector] in the argument to the [Package Model] keyword in the > [Model]. > > Regards, > Matthew Flora > Senior Engineer > HyperLynx > (425) 869-2320 PH > (425) 881-1008 FAX > mbflora@hyperlynx.com > 14715 NE 95th Street, Suite 200, Redmond, WA 98052 USA