RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS

From: owner-ibis-users@ (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #6 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@ Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@ Precedence: bulk ibis-users Friday, June 28 2002 Volume 01 : Number 006 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 13:55:18 -0700 From: "Peters, Stephen" Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Open Forum Teleconference Agenda, 5/10 IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 5/10/02 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 1-888-316-5901 N/A 6874860 (International Dial-In: 1-617-801-9781) All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Peters - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Peters - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Peters - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Peters - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Leventhal, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuits Electromagnetic Model Proposal (IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) Perrin/Peters - JEDEC JC-16 Modeling and Testing Sessions - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling Barnes Design Automation Conference IBIS Summit Meeting Ross IBIS Qualification Committee Katz IBIS Model Review Committee Ross Majordomo Update Angulo New Administrative Issues All 8:45 Technical Discussion IBIS Version 4.0 Discussion/BIRD75 Peters IBIS Version 4.0 Review Peters Connector & Futures Group Report Peters BIRD 74 - EMI Parameters de Burg BIRD 75 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Modeling Support Ross ibischk3 Status Ross - BUG68 - False Messages with Repeated Voltages Mirmak - BUG69 - Error in EBD Path with Power Pin Ross/Flora - BUG70 - [Model Selector] Fails for [Series Pin Ross/Haque Mapping] models New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Peters 9:55 Sign Off |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: whiz kid Subject: [IBIS-Users] Slew Rate Question. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:40:19 -0700 (PDT) From: whiz kid Subject: [IBIS-Users] Slew Rate Question. Hi Folks, I have an IBIS model from a vendor. I am trying to change the slew rate. How do I go about changing the slew rate. Is it fine if I just change the dV_r/dt and dV_f/dt values under the Ramp Keyword or do I need to mess with the Rising and Falling wave forms too. I would really appreciate if some one can provide more info on this one. Thanks, Rahul. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:37:20 -0700 From: "Bill Hargin" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Slew Rate Question. Hi Rahul: You need to delete the [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] tables if you want to be sure that the simulator will see your change to the slew rates. (Make sure and save the file under a different name first, and put in a note in the header, unless you're going to be the only one with access to it.) Best Regards, Bill Hargin Direct: 425-702-0744 Fax: 425-702-0305 Cognition Consulting Electronic Design Software and Consulting http://www.CognitionConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On > Behalf Of whiz kid > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:40 AM > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] Slew Rate Question. > > > Hi Folks, > I have an IBIS model from a vendor. I am trying to > change the slew rate. How do I go about changing the > slew rate. Is it fine if I just change the dV_r/dt and > dV_f/dt values under the Ramp Keyword or do I need to > mess with the Rising and Falling wave forms too. I > would really appreciate if some one can provide more > info on this one. > > Thanks, > Rahul. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis > | subscribe ibis-users > | unsubscribe ibis > | unsubscribe ibis-users > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 > |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:49:39 -0700 From: "Peters, Stephen" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Slew Rate Question. Hi Rahul: Assuming your simulator is using the [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] data (which it should be) changing the data under [Ramp] will not effect the slew rate. You will have to change the waveform data itself. Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. - -----Original Message----- From: whiz kid [mailto:we_r_frendz@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:40 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Slew Rate Question. Hi Folks, I have an IBIS model from a vendor. I am trying to change the slew rate. How do I go about changing the slew rate. Is it fine if I just change the dV_r/dt and dV_f/dt values under the Ramp Keyword or do I need to mess with the Rising and Falling wave forms too. I would really appreciate if some one can provide more info on this one. Thanks, Rahul. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:14:51 +0200 From: "Baumann, Hans-Gerhard" Subject: [IBIS-Users] rising and falling wave forms in IBIS files Hi, from IBIS class I learned that in order to model rising and falling wave forms it is required to provide two plots for each transition. One with load resistor to VDD and one with load resistor to GND. The IBIS models I found on the WEB mostly provide only one plot for each transition. Can someone point me to a model from that I could learn how to setup two rising and two falling wave forms with corresponding load within an IBIS model ? Thanks and Best Regards Gerd Baumann - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- EUROPEAN HPA PRODUCT ENGINEERING Texas Instruments, Haggertystr. 1, D-85356 Freising, Germany E-mail: HGBaumann@ti.com Phone: +49 8161 804341 Fax: +49 8161 804909 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:49:12 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] rising and falling wave forms in IBIS files Gerd, You can check out the examples I have on the IBIS web site under: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/training/ in IBIS_class_JEDEC.zip. The lab exercises have a few HSPICE templates for various buffer types and they all generate two waveforms per edge direction. Arpad ======================================================== - -----Original Message----- From: Baumann, Hans-Gerhard [mailto:HGBaumann@ti.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 1:15 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] rising and falling wave forms in IBIS files Hi, from IBIS class I learned that in order to model rising and falling wave forms it is required to provide two plots for each transition. One with load resistor to VDD and one with load resistor to GND. The IBIS models I found on the WEB mostly provide only one plot for each transition. Can someone point me to a model from that I could learn how to setup two rising and two falling wave forms with corresponding load within an IBIS model ? Thanks and Best Regards Gerd Baumann - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- EUROPEAN HPA PRODUCT ENGINEERING Texas Instruments, Haggertystr. 1, D-85356 Freising, Germany E-mail: HGBaumann@ti.com Phone: +49 8161 804341 Fax: +49 8161 804909 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 16:22:24 -0700 From: "Ross, Bob" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] rising and falling wave forms in IBIS files Hello Gerd: IBIS permits using just a RAMP or even one waveform per edge. The EDA tools should handle these cases. In most cases two waveforms are recommended. In some cases for terminated technologies or for open_* devices, one waveform gives excellent results for the operating regions of interest. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics "Baumann, Hans-Gerhard" wrote: > > Hi, > from IBIS class I learned that in order to model > rising and falling wave forms it is required to provide > two plots for each transition. One with load resistor > to VDD and one with load resistor to GND. > > The IBIS models I found on the WEB mostly provide only > one plot for each transition. Can someone point me to a > model from that I could learn how to setup two rising > and two falling wave forms with corresponding load > within an IBIS model ? > > Thanks and Best Regards > Gerd Baumann > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > EUROPEAN HPA PRODUCT ENGINEERING > Texas Instruments, Haggertystr. 1, D-85356 Freising, Germany > E-mail: HGBaumann@ti.com > Phone: +49 8161 804341 > Fax: +49 8161 804909 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis > | subscribe ibis-users > | unsubscribe ibis > | unsubscribe ibis-users > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:19:32 -0400 From: John Angulo Subject: [IBIS-Users] FW: Announcement Forwarded to the list on behalf of Scott McMorrow. Please send private replies to : To all my friends and colleagues, I wanted to inform you that I have embarked on a new endeavor. My new e-mail address is: scott@teraspeed.com For those who might wonder, I will continue to be a contributor to the SI reflector, the IBIS forums and continue to be an iconclast within the engineering community. I look forward to talks and collaborations with many of you in the future. Best regards, Scott - -- Scott McMorrow Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Portland, OR 97214 (503) 239-5536 http://www.teraspeed.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 11:05:35 +0900 From: Kazu Tsukada Subject: [IBIS-Users] EBD [Path Description] question Hello I have a question about EBD Path Description. V3.2 spec says that : | The Len, L, R, and C subparameters specify the length, the | series inductance, resistance, and the capacitance to ground | of each section in a path description. | | Len The physical length of a section. Lengths are given | in terms of arbitrary 'units'. Any non-zero length | requires that the parameters that follow must be | interpreted as distributed elements by the simulator. | L The series inductance of a section, in terms of | 'inductance/unit length'. For example, if the total | inductance of a section is 3.0 nH and the length of | the section is 2 'units', the inductance would be | listed as L = 1.5 nH (i.e. 3.0 / 2). | C The capacitance to ground of a section, in terms of | capacitance per unit length. | R The series DC (ohmic) resistance of a section, in | terms of ohms per unit length. Does this R mean literally DC(at 0MHz) resistance ? There are some EDA tools which can consider skin effect when computing trace resistance. Some vender suggests to consider skin effect. Thank you. - -Kazu Tsukada/Melco,Inc. |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:53:01 -0700 From: Scott McMorrow Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] EBD [Path Description] question Kazu, You are correct. In an EBD, R is DC resistance. AC skin effect resistance is not specified in an EBD file. For high frequencies, you must account for skin effect, dielectric loss, along with changes in inductance and capacitance as a function of frequency. A modeling method other than EBD is required for high frequencies and fast edge rates. regards, scott - -- Scott McMorrow Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Portland, OR 97214 (503) 239-5536 http://www.teraspeed.com Kazu Tsukada wrote: >Hello > >I have a question about EBD Path Description. >V3.2 spec says that : > | The Len, L, R, and C subparameters specify the length, the > | series inductance, resistance, and the capacitance to ground > | of each section in a path description. > | > | Len The physical length of a section. Lengths are given > | in terms of arbitrary 'units'. Any non-zero length > | requires that the parameters that follow must be > | interpreted as distributed elements by the simulator. > | L The series inductance of a section, in terms of > | 'inductance/unit length'. For example, if the total > | inductance of a section is 3.0 nH and the length of > | the section is 2 'units', the inductance would be > | listed as L = 1.5 nH (i.e. 3.0 / 2). > | C The capacitance to ground of a section, in terms of > | capacitance per unit length. > | R The series DC (ohmic) resistance of a section, in > | terms of ohms per unit length. >Does this R mean literally DC(at 0MHz) resistance ? > >There are some EDA tools which can consider skin effect when computing >trace resistance. Some vender suggests to consider skin effect. >Thank you. >-Kazu Tsukada/Melco,Inc. >|------------------------------------------------------------------ >|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org >|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: >| >| help >| subscribe ibis >| subscribe ibis-users >| unsubscribe ibis >| unsubscribe ibis-users >| >|or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. >| >|IBIS reflector archives exist under: >| >| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent >| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent >| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 > > > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:38:05 -0400 From: John Angulo Subject: [IBIS-Users] FW: IBIS model question I'm forwarding the following post as it was erroneously bounced from the list. Send private replies to whiz kid : Hi Guys, I have an IBIS model which has a built in Sub model. The sub model is Non Driving. In the gnd clamp section after the main Gnd clamp curves its listed as [Sub Model Type] Dynamic Clamp and then the dynamic gnd clamp values. My question is gurus, when initially the sub model is Non driving what is the Use of the Dynamic Gnd clamp. I would really appreciate any information as to what exactly this means. Thanks, Rahul. |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 11:35:07 -0700 From: "Ross, Bob" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] FW: IBIS model question Rahul: A brief answer is that the Dynamic Clamp can still be used for an input model for several reasons: 1. The dynamic voltage shifting may model the behavior of an input buffer that has the clamp reference triggered by a voltage and that changes with time. 2. Or in a static mode, the Input mode of an I/O buffer may contain the clamp, but it is switched out during the driving mode. 3. The dynamic clamp in static mode can also be used for an internal (on die) terminator that is switched in only for the Input mode of an I/O buffer. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics John Angulo wrote: > > I'm forwarding the following post as it was erroneously bounced from the > list. Send private replies to whiz kid : > > Hi Guys, > I have an IBIS model which has a built in Sub model. > The sub model is Non Driving. In the gnd clamp section > after the main Gnd clamp curves its listed as [Sub > Model Type] Dynamic Clamp and then the dynamic gnd > clamp values. My question is gurus, when initially the > sub model is Non driving what is the Use of the > Dynamic Gnd clamp. I would really appreciate any > information as to what exactly this means. > > Thanks, > Rahul. > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis > | subscribe ibis-users > | unsubscribe ibis > | unsubscribe ibis-users > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 08:36:30 -0700 From: "Peters, Stephen" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Agenda, IBIS Open Forum Teleconference 5/31 IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 5/31/02 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 1-888-316-5901 N/A 3778497 (International Dial-In: 1-617-801-9781) All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Peters - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Peters - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Peters - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Peters - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Leventhal, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuits Electromagnetic Model Proposal (IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) Perrin/Peters - JEDEC JC-16 Modeling and Testing Sessions - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling Barnes Design Automation Conference IBIS Summit Meeting Ross Following IBIS Summit Meetings Ross IBIS Qualification Committee Katz IBIS Open Source Parser Proposal Discussion Katz IBIS Model Review Committee Ross Majordomo Update Angulo New Administrative Issues All 8:45 Technical Discussion IBIS Version 4.0 Discussion/BIRD75 Peters IBIS Version 4.0 Review Peters IBIS Connector and Futures Group Report Peters BIRD74 - EMI Parameters de Burgh BIRD75.1 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support Ross ibischk3 Status Ross - BUG68 - False Messages with Repeated Voltages Mirmak New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Peters 9:55 Sign Off |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 13:34:52 -0700 From: "Dolese, John" Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Model for Coupled, Differential Pins When I make an IBIS model of differential pins such as an LVDS output I want to know how our customers will interpret the VI and VT data I give them. It occurs to me that I should take the VI curves with a differential voltage applied about the common mode voltage. This will give the odd mode impedance of the pin pair. Does the signal integrity software keep track of both pins so that if an odd mode reflection occurs both pins will be excited together? In short if the odd mode impedance is 50 Ohms and the single ended impedance is 100 Ohms, which do I report? I have seen the single pin spice model template used in the ibis to spice converter from Intusoft. Is there a template somewhere for differential inputs and outputs? Such a templated would clear up any ambiguity about how the ibis data is interpreted. Another thing I'm wondering is about Resistance_Matrix. Are the resistors in this matrix lumped between the lead inductance and the package pin capacitance the same as r_pkg? It seems more reasonable that any conductance between pins would occur on the die side of l_pkg. |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:06:26 +0800 From: "LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1)" Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Package Model Hi guys, I have a question on IBIS package model: If I have a file containing RLC which is extracted from a package using some extraction tools such as Ansoft, can I represent it in IBIS model? When I look at the IBIS file, it always contain other sections on capturing timing information such as V/I curve for rising and falling waveforms. It only captures package modeling in one of the sections in IBIS modle file. In my case, Can I create a IBIS model file only contains package information and no timing information? Thank you very much. Best Regards kee chai |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 10:06:20 -0700 From: Abdulrahman Rafiq Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Package Model - --------------93A37C6F9CF424D75D8D3C28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kee Chai, To create and IBIS model file you need all the relevent V/I and V/T data points, a valid pinlist file, master Pin file, RLC file. Also make sure that you have the timin-process loads (Vmeas, Vref, Rref and Cref) for all I/O, Output, 3-state buffers. In order to create the pin-list section of the ibis file, you will need to extract the [Pim], signal_name, model_name, R_pin, L_pin and C_pin from the master-pin, pin-list and RLC files. This you can do using MS-Excel, Star-Office or you if you are prficient in a scripting langauge you can create script to do this. I hope this helps Abdulrahman Rafiq Hardware Engineer Cisco Systems, Inc "LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1)" wrote: > Hi guys, > > I have a question on IBIS package model: > > If I have a file containing RLC which is extracted from a package using some extraction tools such as Ansoft, can I represent it in IBIS model? > > When I look at the IBIS file, it always contain other sections on capturing timing information such as V/I curve for rising and falling waveforms. It only captures package modeling in one of the sections in IBIS modle file. > > In my case, Can I create a IBIS model file only contains package information and no timing information? > > Thank you very much. > > Best Regards > kee chai > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis > | subscribe ibis-users > | unsubscribe ibis > | unsubscribe ibis-users > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | Abdulrahman A. Rafiq :|: :|: Hardware Engineer :|||: :|||: HSS Engineering Services, (ISBU) .:|||||||:...:|||||||:. Direct: (408) 527-5540 C i s c o S y s t e m s Fax : (408) 526-6603 www.cisco.com email : arafiq@cisco.com 800-250-4800 epage : arafiq@epage.cisco.com URL1 : http://wwwin-sipd.cisco.com URL2 : http://wwwin-people.cisco.com/~arafiq - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------93A37C6F9CF424D75D8D3C28 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kee Chai,

To create and IBIS model file you need all the relevent V/I and V/T data points, a valid pinlist file, master Pin file, RLC file. Also make sure that you have the timin-process loads (Vmeas, Vref, Rref and Cref) for all I/O, Output, 3-state buffers.

In order to create the pin-list section of the ibis file, you will need to extract the [Pim], signal_name, model_name, R_pin, L_pin and C_pin from the master-pin, pin-list and RLC files. This you can do using MS-Excel, Star-Office or you if you are prficient in a scripting langauge you can create script to do this.

I hope this helps

Abdulrahman Rafiq
Hardware Engineer
Cisco Systems, Inc

"LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1)" wrote:

Hi guys,
I have a question on IBIS package model:
If I have a file containing RLC which is extracted from a package using some extraction tools such as Ansoft, can I represent it in IBIS model?
When I look at the IBIS file, it always contain other sections on capturing timing information such as V/I curve for rising and falling waveforms. It only captures package modeling in one of the sections in IBIS modle file.
In my case, Can I create a IBIS model file only contains package information and no timing information?
Thank you very much.
Best Regards
kee chai
|------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      |           |             Abdulrahman A. Rafiq  
     :|:         :|:            Hardware Engineer
    :|||:       :|||:           HSS Engineering Services, (ISBU)
 .:|||||||:...:|||||||:.        Direct: (408) 527-5540
 C i s c o S y s t e m s        Fax   : (408) 526-6603
      www.cisco.com             email : arafiq@cisco.com
      800-250-4800              epage : arafiq@epage.cisco.com
                                URL1  : http://wwwin-sipd.cisco.com
                                URL2  : http://wwwin-people.cisco.com/~arafiq
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

- --------------93A37C6F9CF424D75D8D3C28-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 10:57:57 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Package Model This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C20671.32FEB6A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" While this is true, one ***CAN*** make a separate package IBIS model in a standalone .pkg file, which does not require all the IV and Vt curves, or any of the buffer related parameters. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ====================================================================== - -----Original Message----- From: Abdulrahman Rafiq [mailto:arafiq@cisco.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:06 AM To: LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1) Cc: 'ibis-users@server.eda.org' Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Package Model Kee Chai, To create and IBIS model file you need all the relevent V/I and V/T data points, a valid pinlist file, master Pin file, RLC file. Also make sure that you have the timin-process loads (Vmeas, Vref, Rref and Cref) for all I/O, Output, 3-state buffers. In order to create the pin-list section of the ibis file, you will need to extract the [Pim], signal_name, model_name, R_pin, L_pin and C_pin from the master-pin, pin-list and RLC files. This you can do using MS-Excel, Star-Office or you if you are prficient in a scripting langauge you can create script to do this. I hope this helps Abdulrahman Rafiq Hardware Engineer Cisco Systems, Inc "LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1)" wrote: Hi guys, I have a question on IBIS package model: If I have a file containing RLC which is extracted from a package using some extraction tools such as Ansoft, can I represent it in IBIS model? When I look at the IBIS file, it always contain other sections on capturing timing information such as V/I curve for rising and falling waveforms. It only captures package modeling in one of the sections in IBIS modle file. In my case, Can I create a IBIS model file only contains package information and no timing information? Thank you very much. Best Regards kee chai |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | Abdulrahman A. Rafiq :|: :|: Hardware Engineer :|||: :|||: HSS Engineering Services, (ISBU) .:|||||||:...:|||||||:. Direct: (408) 527-5540 C i s c o S y s t e m s Fax : (408) 526-6603 www.cisco.com email : arafiq@cisco.com 800-250-4800 epage : arafiq@epage.cisco.com URL1 : http://wwwin-sipd.cisco.com URL2 : http://wwwin-people.cisco.com/~arafiq - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C20671.32FEB6A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

While this is true, one ***CAN*** make a separate package IBIS model

in a standalone .pkg file, which does not require all the IV and Vt

curves, or any of the buffer related parameters.

Arpad Muranyi

Intel Corporation

======================================================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Abdulrahman Rafiq [mailto:arafiq@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:06 AM
To: LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1)
Cc: 'ibis-users@server.eda.org'
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Package Model

Kee Chai,

I hope this helps

Abdulrahman Rafiq
Hardware Engineer
Cisco Systems, Inc

"LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1)" wrote:

Hi guys,
I have a question on IBIS package model:
If I have a file containing RLC which is extracted from a package using some extraction tools such as Ansoft, can I represent it in IBIS model?
When I look at the IBIS file, it always contain other sections on capturing timing information such as V/I curve for rising and falling waveforms. It only captures package modeling in one of the sections in IBIS modle file.
In my case, Can I create a IBIS model file only contains package information and no timing information?
Thank you very much.
Best Regards
kee chai
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
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| subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org.
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| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

-- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      |           |             Abdulrahman A. Rafiq  
     :|:         :|:            Hardware Engineer
    :|||:       :|||:           HSS Engineering Services, (ISBU)
 .:|||||||:...:|||||||:.        Direct: (408) 527-5540
 C i s c o S y s t e m s        Fax   : (408) 526-6603
      www.cisco.com             email : arafiq@cisco.com
      800-250-4800              epage : arafiq@epage.cisco.com
                                URL1  : http://wwwin-sipd.cisco.com
                                URL2  : http://wwwin-people.cisco.com/~arafiq
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C20671.32FEB6A0-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 11:36:11 -0700 From: Abdulrahman Rafiq Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Package Model - --------------3E496746ADC704DCCC8B1E99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arpad, Si there a document depicting the methodology to create this standalone.pkg file ? "Muranyi, Arpad" wrote: > While this is true, one ***CAN*** make a separate package IBIS modelin > a standalone .pkg file, which does not require all the IV and > Vtcurves, or any of the buffer related parameters.Arpad MuranyiIntel > Corporation====================================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: Abdulrahman Rafiq [mailto:arafiq@cisco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:06 AM > To: LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1) > Cc: 'ibis-users@server.eda.org' > Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Package Model > Kee Chai, > > To create and IBIS model file you need all the relevent V/I and V/T > data points, a valid pinlist file, master Pin file, RLC file. Also > make sure that you have the timin-process loads (Vmeas, Vref, Rref and > Cref) for all I/O, Output, 3-state buffers. > > In order to create the pin-list section of the ibis file, you will > need to extract the [Pim], signal_name, model_name, R_pin, L_pin and > C_pin from the master-pin, pin-list and RLC files. This you can do > using MS-Excel, Star-Office or you if you are prficient in a scripting > langauge you can create script to do this. > > I hope this helps > > Abdulrahman Rafiq > Hardware Engineer > Cisco Systems, Inc > > "LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1)" wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> I have a question on IBIS package model: >> >> If I have a file containing RLC which is extracted from a package >> using some extraction tools such as Ansoft, can I represent it in >> IBIS model? >> >> When I look at the IBIS file, it always contain other sections on >> capturing timing information such as V/I curve for rising and >> falling waveforms. It only captures package modeling in one of the >> sections in IBIS modle file. >> >> In my case, Can I create a IBIS model file only contains package >> information and no timing information? >> >> Thank you very much. >> >> Best Regards >> kee chai >> |------------------------------------------------------------------ >> |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org >> |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: >> | >> | help >> | subscribe ibis >> | subscribe ibis-users >> | unsubscribe ibis >> | unsubscribe ibis-users >> | >> |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. >> | >> |IBIS reflector archives exist under: >> | >> | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent >> | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent >> | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 > > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > | | Abdulrahman A. Rafiq > :|: :|: Hardware Engineer > :|||: :|||: HSS Engineering Services, (ISBU) > .:|||||||:...:|||||||:. Direct: (408) 527-5540 > C i s c o S y s t e m s Fax : (408) 526-6603 > www.cisco.com email : arafiq@cisco.com > 800-250-4800 epage : arafiq@epage.cisco.com > URL1 : http://wwwin-sipd.cisco.com > URL2 : http://wwwin-people.cisco.com/~arafiq > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | Abdulrahman A. Rafiq :|: :|: Hardware Engineer :|||: :|||: HSS Engineering Services, (ISBU) .:|||||||:...:|||||||:. Direct: (408) 527-5540 C i s c o S y s t e m s Fax : (408) 526-6603 www.cisco.com email : arafiq@cisco.com 800-250-4800 epage : arafiq@epage.cisco.com URL1 : http://wwwin-sipd.cisco.com URL2 : http://wwwin-people.cisco.com/~arafiq - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------3E496746ADC704DCCC8B1E99 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arpad,

Si there a document depicting the methodology to create this standalone.pkg file ?

"Muranyi, Arpad" wrote:

While this is true, one ***CAN*** make a separate package IBIS modelin a standalone .pkg file, which does not require all the IV and Vtcurves, or any of the buffer related parameters.Arpad MuranyiIntel Corporation======================================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Abdulrahman Rafiq [mailto:arafiq@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:06 AM
To: LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1)
Cc: 'ibis-users@server.eda.org'
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Package Model
Kee Chai,
To create and IBIS model file you need all the relevent V/I and V/T data points, a valid pinlist file, master Pin file, RLC file. Also make sure that you have the timin-process loads (Vmeas, Vref, Rref and Cref) for all I/O, Output, 3-state buffers.
In order to create the pin-list section of the ibis file, you will need to extract the [Pim], signal_name, model_name, R_pin, L_pin and C_pin from the master-pin, pin-list and RLC files. This you can do using MS-Excel, Star-Office or you if you are prficient in a scripting langauge you can create script to do this.
I hope this helps
Abdulrahman Rafiq
Hardware Engineer
Cisco Systems, Inc
"LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1)" wrote:
Hi guys,
I have a question on IBIS package model:
If I have a file containing RLC which is extracted from a package using some extraction tools such as Ansoft, can I represent it in IBIS model?
When I look at the IBIS file, it always contain other sections on capturing timing information such as V/I curve for rising and falling waveforms. It only captures package modeling in one of the sections in IBIS modle file.
In my case, Can I create a IBIS model file only contains package information and no timing information?
Thank you very much.
Best Regards
kee chai
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
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| unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org.
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|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
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| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993
-- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      |           |             Abdulrahman A. Rafiq  
     :|:         :|:            Hardware Engineer
    :|||:       :|||:           HSS Engineering Services, (ISBU)
 .:|||||||:...:|||||||:.        Direct: (408) 527-5540
 C i s c o S y s t e m s        Fax   : (408) 526-6603
      www.cisco.com             email : arafiq@cisco.com
      800-250-4800              epage : arafiq@epage.cisco.com
                                URL1  : http://wwwin-sipd.cisco.com
                                URL2  : http://wwwin-people.cisco.com/~arafiq
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      |           |             Abdulrahman A. Rafiq  
     :|:         :|:            Hardware Engineer
    :|||:       :|||:           HSS Engineering Services, (ISBU)
 .:|||||||:...:|||||||:.        Direct: (408) 527-5540
 C i s c o S y s t e m s        Fax   : (408) 526-6603
      www.cisco.com             email : arafiq@cisco.com
      800-250-4800              epage : arafiq@epage.cisco.com
                                URL1  : http://wwwin-sipd.cisco.com
                                URL2  : http://wwwin-people.cisco.com/~arafiq
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

- --------------3E496746ADC704DCCC8B1E99-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 11:56:18 -0700 From: Scott McMorrow Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Package Model Abdulrahman, The format is described in the IBIS 3.2 specification. regards, scott - -- Scott McMorrow Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Portland, OR 97214 (503) 239-5536 http://www.teraspeed.com Abdulrahman Rafiq wrote: > Arpad, > > Si there a document depicting the methodology to create this > standalone.pkg file ? > > > > "Muranyi, Arpad" wrote: > >> While this is true, one ***CAN*** make a separate package IBIS >> modelin a standalone .pkg file, which does not require all the IV and >> Vtcurves, or any of the buffer related parameters.Arpad MuranyiIntel >> Corporation====================================================================== >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* Abdulrahman Rafiq [mailto:arafiq@cisco.com] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:06 AM >> *To:* LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1) >> *Cc:* 'ibis-users@server.eda.org' >> *Subject:* Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Package Model >> Kee Chai, >> >> To create and IBIS model file you need all the relevent V/I and V/T >> data points, a valid pinlist file, master Pin file, RLC file. Also >> make sure that you have the timin-process loads (Vmeas, Vref, Rref >> and Cref) for all I/O, Output, 3-state buffers. >> >> In order to create the pin-list section of the ibis file, you will >> need to extract the [Pim], signal_name, model_name, R_pin, L_pin and >> C_pin from the master-pin, pin-list and RLC files. This you can do >> using MS-Excel, Star-Office or you if you are prficient in a >> scripting langauge you can create script to do this. >> >> I hope this helps >> >> Abdulrahman Rafiq >> Hardware Engineer >> Cisco Systems, Inc >> >> "LIM,KEE-CHAI (A-Singapore,ex1)" wrote: >> >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> I have a question on IBIS package model: >>> >>> If I have a file containing RLC which is extracted from a package >>> using some extraction tools such as Ansoft, can I represent it in >>> IBIS model? >>> >>> When I look at the IBIS file, it always contain other sections on >>> capturing timing information such as V/I curve for rising and >>> falling waveforms. It only captures package modeling in one of the >>> sections in IBIS modle file. >>> >>> In my case, Can I create a IBIS model file only contains package >>> information and no timing information? >>> >>> Thank you very much. >>> >>> Best Regards >>> kee chai >>> |------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org >>> |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: >>> | >>> | help >>> | subscribe ibis >>> | subscribe ibis-users >>> | unsubscribe ibis >>> | unsubscribe ibis-users >>> | >>> |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. >>> | >>> |IBIS reflector archives exist under: >>> | >>> | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent >>> | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent >>> | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 >>> >>-- >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> | | Abdulrahman A. Rafiq >> :|: :|: Hardware Engineer >> :|||: :|||: HSS Engineering Services, (ISBU) >> .:|||||||:...:|||||||:. Direct: (408) 527-5540 >> C i s c o S y s t e m s Fax : (408) 526-6603 >> www.cisco.com email : arafiq@cisco.com >> 800-250-4800 epage : arafiq@epage.cisco.com >> URL1 : http://wwwin-sipd.cisco.com >> URL2 : http://wwwin-people.cisco.com/~arafiq >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > >-- >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > | | Abdulrahman A. Rafiq > :|: :|: Hardware Engineer > :|||: :|||: HSS Engineering Services, (ISBU) > .:|||||||:...:|||||||:. Direct: (408) 527-5540 > C i s c o S y s t e m s Fax : (408) 526-6603 > www.cisco.com email : arafiq@cisco.com > 800-250-4800 epage : arafiq@epage.cisco.com > URL1 : http://wwwin-sipd.cisco.com > URL2 : http://wwwin-people.cisco.com/~arafiq >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:04:47 -0700 From: Lieby David Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 Hi, I have been trying to get s2ibis2 to work. The s2ibis2.solaris works a little but does not run to completion. I think I found a place to patch but when I recompile and produce another executable I get a message "Bad System Call". I went back and tried compiling the stuff that came in the original TAR and it did the same thing. If anyone has got the tool to work I would like a couple of pointers. - -- dav0 David Lieby Acuson Corp. (650)694-5030 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 16:41:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Syed Huq Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 We use s2ibis2.sun4.fix(the solaris compiled version)with no problems. What is the error message with the pre-compiled downloadable executeable on the web. Syed Cisco Systems, Inc > From: Lieby David > To: IBIS Users > Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:04:47 -0700 > X-Accept-Language: en > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi, > > I have been trying to get s2ibis2 to work. The s2ibis2.solaris works a little but does not run to completion. I think I found a place to patch but when I recompile and produce another executable I get a message "Bad System Call". I went back and tried compiling the stuff that came in the original TAR and it did the same thing. > > If anyone has got the tool to work I would like a couple of pointers. > > -- > dav0 > David Lieby > Acuson Corp. > (650)694-5030 > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis > | subscribe ibis-users > | unsubscribe ibis > | unsubscribe ibis-users > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 07:39:07 -0700 From: Lieby David Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 I got some time with an engineer working in the same environment and found out that they had never been able to get the strip command to work well. We commented it out and the resulting executable did fine. Sorry about the bandwidth consumption. Thanks, dav0 Acuson, Inc. Syed Huq wrote: > > We use s2ibis2.sun4.fix(the solaris compiled version)with no problems. > > What is the error message with the pre-compiled downloadable executeable > on the web. > > Syed > Cisco Systems, Inc > > > From: Lieby David > > To: IBIS Users > > Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:04:47 -0700 > > X-Accept-Language: en > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Hi, > > > > I have been trying to get s2ibis2 to work. The s2ibis2.solaris works a > little but does not run to completion. I think I found a place to patch > but when I recompile and produce another executable I get a message "Bad > System Call". I went back and tried compiling the stuff that came in the > original TAR and it did the same thing. > > > > If anyone has got the tool to work I would like a couple of pointers. > > > > -- > > dav0 > > David Lieby > > Acuson Corp. > > (650)694-5030 > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org > > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: > > | > > | help > > | subscribe ibis > > | subscribe ibis-users > > | unsubscribe ibis > > | unsubscribe ibis-users > > | > > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > > | > > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > > | > > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:41:57 -0400 From: John Angulo Subject: [IBIS-Users] FW: ibis modeling question The following is posted on behalf of Ping-Chung Li of TSMC. Please send private replies to PCLI@tsmc.com.tw. - ------------------ Dear IBIS experts, I have three questions regarding IBIS modeling. 1. I have an I/O cell, where at the output pin I have connected a resistor to a reference voltage source. The purpose of this resistor and voltage source is to model the surrounding environment of the I/O cell. How should I generate IBIS model for this cell? Since the output node is connected to a voltage source via a resistor, there is an current thru the resistor when I sweep the output pin. Should I take out the resistor and voltage source when generating Clamp V-I table? 2. How do I generate pull-up and pull-down tables for 3-state cells? my understanding is that I generate power/ground clamp first, with enable pin turned-off so that the output pin is high impedance. Then I activate enable pin and sweep output pin, then subtract both power/ground clamp tables from the pull-up/pull-down tables to get pull-up and pull-down V-I curves. Is this correct? 3. How does ibischk3 check the accuracy of my cell's rising and falling waveform? My understanding is that it would take the sum of pull-up and power/ground clamp tables (or pull-down and power/ground clamp tables) and compare them with the end points of rising/falling waveforms. Is this correct? With my cell, it seems ibischk3 does not work this way. Is there anything I missed? your help on these questions is highly appropriated. Ping-Chung Li |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:15:06 -0700 From: Monika Garg Subject: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hi, I need to generate IBIS Model for a chip that has 4 different types of IOs. As i understand i need to provide 4 IBIS Models for each different type of IO. These IOs are of LVDS type. Is there any information on what cautions i need to take while developing IBIS for LVDS? Thanks in advance for all the help. Monika |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:52:32 +0300 From: "Hegazy, Hazem" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C20D2F.1D343D7D Content-Type: text/plain Hi, This is one of my presentations in IBIS summits January 2001 describes various modeling technique of LVDS buffers. If you have any questions, fell free to email my with. http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan01/hegazy.zip BR, - -----Original Message----- From: Monika Garg [mailto:mgo@cypress.com] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:15 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hi, I need to generate IBIS Model for a chip that has 4 different types of IOs. As i understand i need to provide 4 IBIS Models for each different type of IO. These IOs are of LVDS type. Is there any information on what cautions i need to take while developing IBIS for LVDS? Thanks in advance for all the help. Monika |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C20D2F.1D343D7D Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS

Hi,

This is one of my presentations in IBIS summits = January 2001 describes various modeling technique of LVDS = buffers.
If you have any questions, fell free to email my = with.

http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan01/hegazy.zip

BR,

-----Original Message-----
From: Monika Garg [mailto:mgo@cypress.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:15 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS

Hi,

I need to generate IBIS Model for a chip that has 4 = different types of
IOs. As i understand i need to provide 4 IBIS Models = for each different
type of IO. These IOs are of LVDS type. Is there any = information on what
cautions i need to take while developing IBIS for = LVDS?

Thanks in advance for all the help.
Monika

|--------------------------------------------------------------= - ----
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email = majordomo@eda.org
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the = body:
|
| help
| subscribe   = ibis       <optional e-mail address, = if different>
| subscribe   ibis-users = <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe = ibis       <optional e-mail address, = if different>
| unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail = address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to = ibis-request@eda.org.
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ = Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ = Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/  &nbs= p;       E-mail since 1993

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C20D2F.1D343D7D-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 06:48:18 -0400 From: "Barry Katz" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0162_01C20D26.246348C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDSHi Monika, In addition to Hazem's presentation there was a paper given at this = year's DesignCon by Adam Tambone (Fairchild). Also, Doug Burns (SiSoft) = will be giving a presentation on our experience with IBIS LVDS Modeling = at the Design Automation Conference IBIS Summit next Thursday. This = presentation should be uploaded to the IBIS website shortly after the = Summit. You will be able to get Doug's presentation directly from me as = well. Barry Barry Katz President & CTO Signal Integrity Software, Inc. 6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250 Maynard, MA 01754 978 461 0449 x19 www.sisoft.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Hegazy, Hazem=20 To: 'Monika Garg' ; ibis-users@eda.org=20 Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:52 AM Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hi,=20 This is one of my presentations in IBIS summits January 2001 describes = various modeling technique of LVDS buffers.=20 If you have any questions, fell free to email my with.=20 http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan01/hegazy.zip=20 BR,=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Monika Garg [mailto:mgo@cypress.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:15 AM=20 To: ibis-users@server.eda.org=20 Subject: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS=20 Hi,=20 I need to generate IBIS Model for a chip that has 4 different types of = IOs. As i understand i need to provide 4 IBIS Models for each = different=20 type of IO. These IOs are of LVDS type. Is there any information on = what=20 cautions i need to take while developing IBIS for LVDS?=20 Thanks in advance for all the help.=20 Monika=20 |------------------------------------------------------------------=20 |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org=20 |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:=20 |=20 | help=20 | subscribe ibis =20 | subscribe ibis-users =20 | unsubscribe ibis =20 | unsubscribe ibis-users =20 |=20 |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org.=20 |=20 |IBIS reflector archives exist under:=20 |=20 | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent=20 | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent=20 | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0162_01C20D26.246348C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS

Hi Monika,

In addition to Hazem's presentation there was a = paper given at=20 this year's DesignCon by Adam Tambone (Fairchild). Also, Doug = Burns=20 (SiSoft) will be giving a presentation on our experience with IBIS = LVDS=20 Modeling at the Design Automation Conference IBIS Summit next = Thursday. =20 This presentation should be uploaded to the IBIS website shortly after = the=20 Summit. You will be able to get Doug's presentation directly = from me=20 as well.

Barry

Barry Katz
President & CTO
Signal Integrity Software, = Inc.
6=20 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
Maynard, MA 01754
978 461 0449 = x19
www.sisoft.com

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Hegazy, Hazem

To: 'Monika Garg' ; ibis-users@eda.org

Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 = 3:52=20 AM

Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Info = on IBIS=20 for LVDS

Hi,

This is one of my presentations in IBIS summits = January 2001=20 describes various modeling technique of LVDS buffers.
If you have any questions, fell free to email my with. =

http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan01/hegazy.zip<= /FONT>=20

BR,

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 Monika Garg [mailto:mgo@cypress.com] =
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:15 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org=20
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS =

Hi,

I need to generate IBIS Model for a chip that has 4 = different=20 types of
IOs. As i understand i need to = provide 4 IBIS=20 Models for each different
type of IO. These = IOs are of=20 LVDS type. Is there any information on what
cautions i=20 need to take while developing IBIS for LVDS?

Thanks in advance for all the help.
Monika

|---------------------------------------------------------------= - ---=20
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email=20 majordomo@eda.org
|with just the appropriate = command=20 message(s) in the body:
|
| help
| = subscribe  =20 ibis       <optional e-mail address, = if=20 different>
| subscribe   = ibis-users=20 <optional e-mail address, if different>
| =20 unsubscribe ibis       <optional = e-mail=20 address, if different>
| = unsubscribe=20 ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> =
|
|or email a written request to=20 ibis-request@eda.org.
|
|IBIS=20 reflector archives exist under:
| =
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ =20 Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ =20 Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/   &= nbsp;     =20 E-mail since 1993

- ------=_NextPart_000_0162_01C20D26.246348C0-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:02:18 -0700 From: "Peters, Stephen" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Agenda, DAC2002 IBIS Summit (Note: If you are planning on attending and haven't signed-up, please do so by Monday June 10. See the contact information for Guy de Burg below.) A G E N D A D A C I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Monday, June 13, 2002 Hilton Hotel, New Orleans Riverside Grand Salon 7 and 10 New Orleans, Louisiana 8:00 AM REFRESHMENTS (CONTINENTAL BREAKFAST) 8:30 AM INTRODUCTIONS AND GENERAL BUSINESS - Introductions - Announcements - Opens & Other Business 8:45 AM IBIS Annual Report - Stephen Peters, Intel Corp. 9:00 AM IBIS Quality Checklist - Barry Katz, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft) 9:30 AM LVDS Modeling - Doug Burns, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft) 10:00 AM BREAK 10:15 AM Election of Officers 2002-2003 10:30 AM IBIS Models Today, Their Parameters and Their Accuracy - Eckhard Lenski, Siemens AG 11:00 AM Pad Capacitance Extraction Spice Simulations Hazem Hegazy, Mentor Graphics (Presented by Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics) 11:30 AM Buffer Impedance and IBIS Quality - Luca Giacotto, Altron Transport 12:00 PM LUNCH (PROVIDED) 1:00 PM Connector Modeling Experiences - Atsuji Ito, Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. (Panasonic) 1:30 PM IBIS Connector Specification - Stephen Peters, Intel Corp. 2:00 PM Multi-Lingual Modeling Applications and Issues - Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics 2:30 PM BREAK AND REFRESHMENTS 2:45 PM IBIS Version 4.0 Discussion - Stephen Peters, Intel Corp. 3:15 PM IBIS Open Parser Discussion 3:45 PM Other Ad Hoc Discussion/Presentations 4:45 PM Any Other Issues - Next Meeting 5:00 PM END OF MEETING ____________________________________________________________________________ _ DAC 2002: DAC is scheduled Monday - Friday, June 10 - 14, 2002. The exhibitor portion is open from Monday - Wednesday. DAC URL: http://www.dac.com/ PRESENTATIONS: We are providing an LCD Projector and an Overhead Projector. HOWEVER, Bring foils for backup, if needed, or as primary method of presentation. Please provide 25 copies to handout at the meeting. Also send electronic copy for archiving to address below. Ad Hoc presentations and discussion issues are welcome and will be scheduled, time permitting. CONTACT: Guy de Burgh IBIS Secretary gdeburgh@innoveda.com (805) 988-8250 ext. 6823 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:54:52 -0700 From: "Mohan, Prabhu" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C20D9C.67F4C930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Can you send a pointer to Adam Tambone's presentation. I can't seem to find it. Its not here http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan02/ ? Thanks Prabhu/~ - -----Original Message----- From: Barry Katz [mailto:bkatz@sisoft.com] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:48 AM To: Hegazy, Hazem; 'Monika Garg'; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hi Monika, In addition to Hazem's presentation there was a paper given at this year's DesignCon by Adam Tambone (Fairchild). Also, Doug Burns (SiSoft) will be giving a presentation on our experience with IBIS LVDS Modeling at the Design Automation Conference IBIS Summit next Thursday. This presentation should be uploaded to the IBIS website shortly after the Summit. You will be able to get Doug's presentation directly from me as well. Barry Barry Katz President & CTO Signal Integrity Software, Inc. 6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250 Maynard, MA 01754 978 461 0449 x19 www.sisoft.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Hegazy, Hazem To: 'Monika Garg' ; ibis-users@eda.org Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:52 AM Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hi, This is one of my presentations in IBIS summits January 2001 describes various modeling technique of LVDS buffers. If you have any questions, fell free to email my with. http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan01/hegazy.zip BR, - -----Original Message----- From: Monika Garg [ mailto:mgo@cypress.com ] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:15 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hi, I need to generate IBIS Model for a chip that has 4 different types of IOs. As i understand i need to provide 4 IBIS Models for each different type of IO. These IOs are of LVDS type. Is there any information on what cautions i need to take while developing IBIS for LVDS? Thanks in advance for all the help. Monika |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C20D9C.67F4C930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS

Can you send a pointer to Adam Tambone's presentation. I can't seem to find it.

Its not here http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan02/?

Thanks

Prabhu/~

-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Katz [mailto:bkatz@sisoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:48 AM
To: Hegazy, Hazem; 'Monika Garg'; ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS

Hi Monika,

In addition to Hazem's presentation there was a paper given at this year's DesignCon by Adam Tambone (Fairchild). Also, Doug Burns (SiSoft) will be giving a presentation on our experience with IBIS LVDS Modeling at the Design Automation Conference IBIS Summit next Thursday. This presentation should be uploaded to the IBIS website shortly after the Summit. You will be able to get Doug's presentation directly from me as well.

Barry

Barry Katz
President & CTO
Signal Integrity Software, Inc.
6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
Maynard, MA 01754
978 461 0449 x19
www.sisoft.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Hegazy, Hazem

To: 'Monika Garg' ; ibis-users@eda.org

Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:52 AM

Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS

Hi,

This is one of my presentations in IBIS summits January 2001 describes various modeling technique of LVDS buffers.
If you have any questions, fell free to email my with.

http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan01/hegazy.zip

BR,

-----Original Message-----
From: Monika Garg [mailto:mgo@cypress.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:15 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS

Hi,

I need to generate IBIS Model for a chip that has 4 different types of
IOs. As i understand i need to provide 4 IBIS Models for each different
type of IO. These IOs are of LVDS type. Is there any information on what
cautions i need to take while developing IBIS for LVDS?

Thanks in advance for all the help.
Monika

|------------------------------------------------------------------
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| unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
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|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
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| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C20D9C.67F4C930-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:28:13 -0700 From: "Peters, Stephen" Subject: [IBIS-Users] CORRECTION: Agenda, DAC2002 IBIS Summit The correct day is Thursday, June 13, 2002 ===================== A G E N D A D A C I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Thursday, June 13, 2002 Hilton Hotel, New Orleans Riverside Grand Salon 7 and 10 New Orleans, Louisiana 8:00 AM REFRESHMENTS (CONTINENTAL BREAKFAST) 8:30 AM INTRODUCTIONS AND GENERAL BUSINESS - Introductions - Announcements - Opens & Other Business 8:45 AM IBIS Annual Report - Stephen Peters, Intel Corp. 9:00 AM IBIS Quality Checklist - Barry Katz, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft) 9:30 AM LVDS Modeling - Doug Burns, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft) 10:00 AM BREAK 10:15 AM Election of Officers 2002-2003 10:30 AM IBIS Models Today, Their Parameters and Their Accuracy - Eckhard Lenski, Siemens AG 11:00 AM Pad Capacitance Extraction Spice Simulations Hazem Hegazy, Mentor Graphics (Presented by Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics) 11:30 AM Buffer Impedance and IBIS Quality - Luca Giacotto, Altron Transport 12:00 PM LUNCH (PROVIDED) 1:00 PM Connector Modeling Experiences - Atsuji Ito, Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. (Panasonic) 1:30 PM IBIS Connector Specification - Stephen Peters, Intel Corp. 2:00 PM Multi-Lingual Modeling Applications and Issues - Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics 2:30 PM BREAK AND REFRESHMENTS 2:45 PM IBIS Version 4.0 Discussion - Stephen Peters, Intel Corp. 3:15 PM IBIS Open Parser Discussion 3:45 PM Other Ad Hoc Discussion/Presentations 4:45 PM Any Other Issues - Next Meeting 5:00 PM END OF MEETING ____________________________________________________________________________ _ DAC 2002: DAC is scheduled Monday - Friday, June 10 - 14, 2002. The exhibitor portion is open from Monday - Wednesday. DAC URL: http://www.dac.com/ PRESENTATIONS: We are providing an LCD Projector and an Overhead Projector. HOWEVER, Bring foils for backup, if needed, or as primary method of presentation. Please provide 25 copies to handout at the meeting. Also send electronic copy for archiving to address below. Ad Hoc presentations and discussion issues are welcome and will be scheduled, time permitting. CONTACT: Guy de Burgh IBIS Secretary gdeburgh@innoveda.com (805) 988-8250 ext. 6823 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 06:43:53 -0400 From: "Barry Katz" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01EE_01C20DEE.B09C3540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDSHi, Adam gave his presentation in a session at DesignCon (not at the IBIS = summit). I know the papers are in the proceedings. I will ask, Adam = how presentation can be made available on the web. Barry - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mohan, Prabhu=20 To: ibis-users@eda.org=20 Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:54 PM Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hi =20 Can you send a pointer to Adam Tambone's presentation. I can't seem to = find it. =20 Its not here http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan02/? =20 Thanks Prabhu/~ =20 -----Original Message----- From: Barry Katz [mailto:bkatz@sisoft.com] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:48 AM To: Hegazy, Hazem; 'Monika Garg'; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hi Monika, In addition to Hazem's presentation there was a paper given at this = year's DesignCon by Adam Tambone (Fairchild). Also, Doug Burns (SiSoft) = will be giving a presentation on our experience with IBIS LVDS Modeling = at the Design Automation Conference IBIS Summit next Thursday. This = presentation should be uploaded to the IBIS website shortly after the = Summit. You will be able to get Doug's presentation directly from me as = well. Barry Barry Katz President & CTO Signal Integrity Software, Inc. 6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250 Maynard, MA 01754 978 461 0449 x19 www.sisoft.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Hegazy, Hazem=20 To: 'Monika Garg' ; ibis-users@eda.org=20 Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:52 AM Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hi,=20 This is one of my presentations in IBIS summits January 2001 = describes various modeling technique of LVDS buffers.=20 If you have any questions, fell free to email my with.=20 http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan01/hegazy.zip=20 BR,=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Monika Garg [mailto:mgo@cypress.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:15 AM=20 To: ibis-users@server.eda.org=20 Subject: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS=20 Hi,=20 I need to generate IBIS Model for a chip that has 4 different = types of=20 IOs. As i understand i need to provide 4 IBIS Models for each = different=20 type of IO. These IOs are of LVDS type. Is there any information = on what=20 cautions i need to take while developing IBIS for LVDS?=20 Thanks in advance for all the help.=20 Monika=20 = |------------------------------------------------------------------=20 |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org=20 |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:=20 |=20 | help=20 | subscribe ibis =20 | subscribe ibis-users =20 | unsubscribe ibis =20 | unsubscribe ibis-users =20 |=20 |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org.=20 |=20 |IBIS reflector archives exist under:=20 |=20 | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent=20 | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent=20 | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_01EE_01C20DEE.B09C3540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS

Hi,

Adam gave his presentation in a session at DesignCon = (not at=20 the IBIS summit). I know the papers are in the = proceedings. I=20 will ask, Adam how presentation can be made available on the=20 web.

Barry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Mohan,=20 Prabhu

To: ibis-users@eda.org

Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 = 4:54=20 PM

Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Info = on IBIS=20 for LVDS

Can you send a pointer to Adam Tambone's=20 presentation. I can't seem to find it.

Its not here http://www.eda.org/pu= b/ibis/summits/jan02/?

Thanks

Prabhu/~

-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Katz [mailto:bkatz@sisoft.com]
Sent:= =20 Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:48 AM
To: Hegazy, Hazem; 'Monika = Garg';=20 ibis-users@eda.org
Subject:<= /B>=20 Re: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS

Hi Monika,

In addition to Hazem's presentation there was a = paper=20 given at this year's DesignCon by Adam Tambone (Fairchild). = Also, Doug=20 Burns (SiSoft) will be giving a presentation on our experience = with=20 IBIS LVDS Modeling at the Design Automation Conference IBIS Summit = next=20 Thursday. This presentation should be uploaded to the IBIS = website=20 shortly after the Summit. You will be able to get Doug's = presentation=20 directly from me as well.

Barry

Barry Katz
President & CTO
Signal Integrity Software, = Inc.
6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
Maynard, MA 01754
978 = 461 0449=20 x19
www.sisoft.com

----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Hegazy, Hazem
To: 'Monika Garg' ; ibis-users@eda.org

Sent: Thursday, June 06, = 2002 3:52=20 AM

Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] = Info on=20 IBIS for LVDS

Hi,

This is one of my presentations in IBIS summits = January=20 2001 describes various modeling technique of LVDS buffers.=20
If you have any questions, fell free to email = my=20 with.

http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan01/hegazy.zip<= /FONT>=20

BR,

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 Monika Garg [mailto:mgo@cypress.com] =
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:15 AM
To:=20 ibis-users@server.eda.org=20
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for = LVDS=20

Hi,

I need to generate IBIS Model for a chip that = has 4=20 different types of
IOs. As i understand = i need to=20 provide 4 IBIS Models for each different
type of=20 IO. These IOs are of LVDS type. Is there any information on what=20
cautions i need to take while developing = IBIS for=20 LVDS?

Thanks in advance for all the help. =
Monika

|---------------------------------------------------------------= - ---=20
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email=20 majordomo@eda.org
|with just the = appropriate=20 command message(s) in the body:
| =
| help
| = subscribe  =20 ibis       <optional e-mail = address, if=20 different>
| = subscribe  =20 ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> =
| unsubscribe = ibis      =20 <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail = address, if=20 different>
|
|or email=20 a written request to ibis-request@eda.org.
|
|IBIS reflector archives = exist=20 under:
|
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ =20 Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ =20 Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/   &= nbsp;     =20 E-mail since 1993=20

- ------=_NextPart_000_01EE_01C20DEE.B09C3540-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:46:56 -0700 From: "Ross, Bob" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hello Mohan: Several contributions were made at the DesignCon 2002 and are available: http://www.iec.org/pubs/proceedings/2002/designcon.html Adam's presentation or a variation of it is also available here: http://www.commsdesign.com/design_center/netprocessing/design_corner/OEG20020403S0018 Best Regards, Bob Ross Mentor Graphics - ---- Hi, Adam gave his presentation in a session at DesignCon (not at the IBIS summit). I know the papers are in the proceedings. I will ask, Adam how presentation can be made available on the web. Barry - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mohan, Prabhu To: ibis-users@eda.org Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:54 PM Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Info on IBIS for LVDS Hi Can you send a pointer to Adam Tambone's presentation. I can't seem to find it. Its not here http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan02/? Thanks Prabhu/~ |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 20:01:56 +0900 From: Takanobu Ura Subject: [IBIS-Users] The buffer have a outside terminal: Pls teach me modeling method Dear All, Regarding IBIS modeling method, In case of the buffer have a outside pullup terminal, Do we need to analyze with waveform-SPICE-netlist including outside pullup terminal? For example, HSTL buffer is used as follows: Buffer terminal Transmission line -----><-------><-------- Vdd/2 Vdd/2 -+- -+- | | R R | R=50ohm | |>---+------/////-----------+---|> We analyzed as follows: V-I table |>--------------+ | V External Voltage Sweep | /// GND V-t table RisingWaveform/FalingWaveform VDD/2 -+- | R1 V_fixture=Vdd/2 | R_fixture=R1 Vin-|>-----+ When we generate IBIS-model with above the SPICE-netlist, Ibischk3 reports the below error message: ERROR - Model HSTL1: The [Rising Waveform] with [R_fixture]=50 Ohms and [V_fixture]=1.5V has TYP column DC endpoints of 0.00V and 1.29v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages ( 0.16V and 1.50V), a difference of 100.00% and 14.00%, respectively. Please let me know modeling method which the buffer have a outside pullup terminal. Best regards, T.Ura |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:34:27 +0300 From: "Hegazy, Hazem" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] The buffer have a outside terminal: Pls teach me modeling method This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C21083.8AF874F7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Hi, From what I see here you made V-T table extraction with the PAD connected with 50 Ohm resistor to ground and not VDD/2. This clear from the ibischk3 warning it-self, as the wave form starts from zero and going to 1.29 volts. This only happens when the load is connected to ground or the starting (first) edge begins from wrong dc (Then you might try the second rising/falling edge). While the V_fixture inserted in the IBIS model was 1.5 volts for the same V-T table!! "ERROR - Model HSTL1: The [Rising Waveform] with [R_fixture]=50 Ohms and [V_fixture]=1.5V has TYP column DC endpoints of 0.00V and 1.29v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages ( 0.16V and 1.50V), a difference of 100.00% and 14.00%, respectively." I think the I-V data is right as it doesn't begin from 0.0V at 50 Ohm to 1.5V which is normal. BR, - -----Original Message----- From: Takanobu Ura [mailto:t-ura@pb.jp.nec.com] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 2:02 PM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Cc: ???????; Ura Takanobu Subject: [IBIS-Users] The buffer have a outside terminal: Pls teach me modeling method Dear All, Regarding IBIS modeling method, In case of the buffer have a outside pullup terminal, Do we need to analyze with waveform-SPICE-netlist including outside pullup terminal? For example, HSTL buffer is used as follows: Buffer terminal Transmission line -----><-------><-------- Vdd/2 Vdd/2 -+- -+- | | R R | R=50ohm | |>---+------/////-----------+---|> We analyzed as follows: V-I table |>--------------+ | V External Voltage Sweep | /// GND V-t table RisingWaveform/FalingWaveform VDD/2 -+- | R1 V_fixture=Vdd/2 | R_fixture=R1 Vin-|>-----+ When we generate IBIS-model with above the SPICE-netlist, Ibischk3 reports the below error message: ERROR - Model HSTL1: The [Rising Waveform] with [R_fixture]=50 Ohms and [V_fixture]=1.5V has TYP column DC endpoints of 0.00V and 1.29v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages ( 0.16V and 1.50V), a difference of 100.00% and 14.00%, respectively. Please let me know modeling method which the buffer have a outside pullup terminal. Best regards, T.Ura |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C21083.8AF874F7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [IBIS-Users] The buffer have a outside terminal: Pls teach = me modeling method
Hi,
From what I see here you made V-T table extraction = with the PAD connected with 50 Ohm resistor to ground and not = VDD/2.
This clear from the ibischk3 warning it-self, as the = wave form starts from zero and going to 1.29 volts. This only happens = when the load is connected to ground or the starting (first) edge = begins from wrong dc (Then you might try the second rising/falling = edge).

While the V_fixture inserted in the IBIS model was = 1.5 volts for the same V-T table!!

"ERROR - Model HSTL1: The [Rising Waveform] =
      with [R_fixture]=3D50 = Ohms and [V_fixture]=3D1.5V
      has TYP column DC = endpoints of 0.00V and 1.29v, but
      an equivalent load = applied to the model's I-V tables yields
      different voltages ( = 0.16V and 1.50V),
      a difference of = 100.00% and 14.00%, respectively."

I think the I-V data is right as it doesn't begin = from 0.0V at 50 Ohm to 1.5V which is normal.

BR,

-----Original Message-----
From: Takanobu Ura [mailto:t-ura@pb.jp.nec.com]
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 2:02 PM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Cc: ???????; Ura Takanobu
Subject: [IBIS-Users] The buffer have a outside = terminal: Pls teach me modeling method

Dear All,

Regarding IBIS modeling method, In case of the buffer = have a outside pullup
terminal, Do we need to analyze with = waveform-SPICE-netlist including outside
pullup terminal?

For example, HSTL buffer is used as follows:
Buffer terminal Transmission line
-----><-------><--------
        = Vdd/2           &= nbsp;      Vdd/2
         = - -+-           &nb= sp;        -+-
          = |            = ;          |
          = R            = ;          R
          = |       = R=3D50ohm        |
     = |>---+------/////-----------+---|>

We analyzed as follows:
V-I table

       = |>--------------+
          &nb= sp;            = |
          &nb= sp;            = V   External Voltage Sweep
          &nb= sp;            = |
          &nb= sp;           /// = GND

V-t table

   RisingWaveform/FalingWaveform
          &nb= sp; VDD/2
          &nb= sp; -+-
          &nb= sp;   |
          &nb= sp;   R1       = V_fixture=3DVdd/2
          &nb= sp;   |        = R_fixture=3DR1
   Vin-|>-----+

When we generate IBIS-model with above the = SPICE-netlist, Ibischk3 reports
the below error message:
ERROR - Model HSTL1: The [Rising Waveform]
      with [R_fixture]=3D50 = Ohms and [V_fixture]=3D1.5V
      has TYP column DC = endpoints of 0.00V and 1.29v, but
      an equivalent load = applied to the model's I-V tables yields
      different voltages ( = 0.16V and 1.50V),
      a difference of = 100.00% and 14.00%, respectively.

Please let me know modeling method which the buffer = have a outside pullup
terminal.

Best regards,
T.Ura
|--------------------------------------------------------------= - ----
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email = majordomo@eda.org
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the = body:
|
| help
| subscribe   = ibis       <optional e-mail address, = if different>
| subscribe   ibis-users = <optional e-mail address, if different>
| unsubscribe = ibis       <optional e-mail address, = if different>
| unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail = address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to = ibis-request@eda.org.
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ = Recent
| http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ = Recent
| http://www= .eda.org/pub/ibis/email/       &= nbsp; E-mail since 1993
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C21083.8AF874F7-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:57:03 -0400 From: John Angulo Subject: [IBIS-Users] FW: IBIS Modeling Clarification The following is posted on behalf of Andris Lauzums. Please send all private replies to alauzums@intersil.com. - ------------------------------------- Hello. I am currently constructing an IBIS model for a RS-485 Differential Output transceiver. This is my first attempt at IBIS modeling, and I am uncertain about what values to specify for certain [model] parameters. I am attempting to extract rising and falling waveform data on a bench using a Tektronics TDS-3040 (300MHZ 2.5GS/s ....The 300mHZ bandwidth does not seem to be limiting my rise and fall time readings) along with a 10X 8.7pF test probe and a HP 8131A Pulse Generator. My test board is a copper-clad type breadboard that does not seem to adversely affect my AC test readings. The model type is an RECEIVER/DRIVER_BI I/O (Driver output, Receiver Input) I am uncertain about what Vinh, Vinl, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, and Vref parameters to specify. The datasheet specifies high and low Voltage input thresholds at 0.8V, and 2.0V....Do i use these values for Vinh, and Vinl? What high and low input voltages do I set on my pulse generator? Is the Vmeas parameter the delta between Vinh and Vin? What is this "Reference Voltage for timing Measurements"? What do i specify for my Cref value? My board has 12.5pF of capacitance betewwn my I/O pin and GND. Do i use my board capacitance value? I not using any caps from my I/O pin to GND I terminated my differential output pins with a 54.9 ohm resistor. Is this the R_ref, R_load, or R_fixture value that i need to specify? Is my V_fixture value the same as my V_meas as well? What do i specify for C_fixture and L_fixture? In other words: I am trying to figure out what values to include for the following parameters: Vinh Vinl Vmeas Cref Rref Rload Rfixture Vfixture Cfixture Lifixture I have read through the various articles on the ANSI/EIA-656-A Homepage. It has proved to be a great source of information, although because of my unfamillarity with IBIS, it has left me unclear on the problems that I describe above. I would appreciate any assistance that can be provided. I can be reached at (321) 729-4811. I hope this forum can help me get my project underway. Thanks, Andris Lauzums |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:34:49 -0400 From: John Angulo Subject: [IBIS-Users] FW: ibis doubt The following is posted on behalf of Akhilesh Chandra. Please send all private replies to akhilesh.chandra@st.com. John Angulo IBIS Open Forum Postmaster - -----Original Message----- From: akhilesh.chandra@st.com [mailto:akhilesh.chandra@st.com] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 4:12 AM To: ibis-info@server.vhdl.org Subject: ibis doubt Hello, Can you explain me what information we put in Vmeans, Cref, Rref & Vref keywards & how this information used by customer. I have some problems 1- Our ibischecker take file name in small & if we put file name in capital then it gives error Why it is so. Except IBIS all others models file name in capital so when we use IBIS model in our flow then it is crash. So it is better if our ibischecker take file name case insensitive. 2- Some time our file name is more than 12 character then also our ibischecker gives error, it should we user dependent not hardcoded. 3- When our file name have more then one period then ibischecker also shows error I think ibischecker shoud read more then one period. Thanks in advance for your prompt response. Regards Akhilesh |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:22:45 -0700 From: "Bill Hargin" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] FW: ibis doubt Hello Akhilesh: > Can you explain me what information we put in Vmeans, Cref, Rref & > Vref keywards & how this information used by customer. Cref, Rref, Vref, and Vmeas are optional subparameters to the [Model] keyword. Include them, typically, to facilitate board-level timing simulation. Cref and Rref subparameters correspond to the test load that the semiconductor vendor uses when specifying the propagation delay and/or output switching time of the model. The IBIS 3.2 spec shows the assumed connections as: | _________ | | | | | |\ | Rref | |Driver| \|------o----/\/\/\----o Vref | | | /| | | | |/ | === Cref | |_________| | | | | GND > 1- Our ibischecker take file name in small & if we put file name > in capital then it gives error Why it is so. It's probably easier to just go with the IBIS spec--which only supports 8.3 file names, all lower case characters--than to fight it. The reason for these formatting requirements is to support both Windows and UNIX platforms seamlessly. I mentioned this on the SI List earlier, so I'll do it here too. My company does IBIS training and SPICE-to-IBIS conversions. Details and links below. IBIS Training - http://www.CognitionConsulting.com/seminars.htm IBIS 101 � Introduction/overview. (� - 1 day, depending on customer needs.) Can be incorporated with "High Speed Design" and/or HyperLynx training. IBIS 501 � Advanced IBIS modeling class; emphasis on IBIS 3.2 features and SPICE-to-IBIS conversions. (1 day) IBIS 505 � Advanced; emphasis on LVDS. (1 day) IBIS Modeling; SPICE-2-IBIS Conversion - http://www.CognitionConsulting.com/ibis.htm Best Regards, Bill Hargin Direct: 425-702-0744 Fax: 425-702-0305 Cognition Consulting Electronic Design Software and Consulting http://www.CognitionConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org > [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of John Angulo > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 5:35 PM > To: ibis-users@server.eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] FW: ibis doubt > > > The following is posted on behalf of Akhilesh Chandra. Please send all > private replies to akhilesh.chandra@st.com. > > John Angulo > IBIS Open Forum Postmaster > > -----Original Message----- > From: akhilesh.chandra@st.com [mailto:akhilesh.chandra@st.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 4:12 AM > To: ibis-info@server.vhdl.org > Subject: ibis doubt > > > Hello, > > Can you explain me what information we put in Vmeans, Cref, Rref & > Vref keywards & how this information used by customer. > > I have some problems > > 1- Our ibischecker take file name in small & if we put file name > in capital then it gives error Why it is so. > Except IBIS all others models file name in capital so when we > use IBIS model in our flow then it is crash. > So it is better if our ibischecker take file name case > insensitive. > > 2- Some time our file name is more than 12 character then also our > ibischecker gives error, it should we user dependent not > hardcoded. > > 3- When our file name have more then one period then ibischecker also > shows error I think ibischecker shoud read more then one period. > > Thanks in advance for your prompt response. > > Regards > Akhilesh > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis > | subscribe ibis-users > | unsubscribe ibis > | unsubscribe ibis-users > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:44:07 -0700 From: Kar Hooi Kuan Subject: [IBIS-Users] ibis Hello, Can you explain me what information we put in Vmeans, Cref, Rref & Vref keywards & how this information used by customer. Regards, ________________________________ Kar Hooi Kuan Applications Engineer Altera Corporation Penang Plot 6, Bayan Lepas Technoplex, Medan Bayan Lepas 11900 Penang, Malaysia Tel(hp): 6012-5611508 (O) : 604-6366471 (Fax): 604-642-8525 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:48:52 -0700 From: "Bill Hargin" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] ibis Hi Kar Hooi: > Can you explain me what information we put in Vmeans, Cref, Rref & > Vref keywards & how this information used by customer. See my last e-mail for a generic overview of Vmeas, Cref, Rref & Vref. More info. on Vmeas: The Vmeas subparameter is the reference voltage level that the semiconductor vendor uses for the model. Vmeas is used -- by an SI simulator, for example -- for timing calculations. It's the Output equivalent of Vinl and Vinh for an Input model. (An I/O could include all three.) Vmeas is the point at which the Driver is considered to be "switched." Timing delay can be calculated by subtracting the point at which a the Driver crosses Vmeas from the point at which the Receiver waveform crosses Vinl (falling edge) or Vinh (rising edge). Best Regards, Bill Hargin Direct: 425-702-0744 Fax: 425-702-0305 Cognition Consulting Electronic Design Software and Consulting http://www.CognitionConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org > [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of Kar Hooi Kuan > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:44 PM > To: ibis-users@server.eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] ibis > > > Hello, > > Can you explain me what information we put in Vmeans, Cref, Rref & > Vref keywards & how this information used by customer. > > > Regards, > ________________________________ > Kar Hooi Kuan > Applications Engineer > Altera Corporation Penang > Plot 6, Bayan Lepas Technoplex, Medan Bayan Lepas > 11900 Penang, Malaysia > Tel(hp): 6012-5611508 > (O) : 604-6366471 > (Fax): 604-642-8525 > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis > | subscribe ibis-users > | unsubscribe ibis > | unsubscribe ibis-users > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 > |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:46:44 -0700 From: "Ross, Bob" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Re: ibis doubt Hello Akhilesh: I have some parser responses in your text. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics akhilesh.chandra@st.com wrote: > > Hello, > > Can you explain me what information we put in Vmeans, Cref, Rref & > Vref keywards & how this information used by customer. > > I have some problems > > 1- Our ibischecker take file name in small & if we put file name > in capital then it gives error Why it is so. > Except IBIS all others models file name in capital so when we > use IBIS model in our flow then it is crash. > So it is better if our ibischecker take file name case > insensitive. We chose to make the file name lower case to avoid case sensitive distinctions in Unix systems and also to standardize in Windows formats. > > 2- Some time our file name is more than 12 character then also our > ibischecker gives error, it should we user dependent not > hardcoded. Set the [IBIS Ver] to 3.2 and the error should go away. We went with 20.3 in Version 3.2. > > 3- When our file name have more then one period then ibischecker also > shows error I think ibischecker shoud read more then one period. I do not believe we support the "." in a file name other than to separate the file name from the "ibs" or other legal extension. > > Thanks in advance for your prompt response. > > Regar > Akhilesh |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 18:35:35 -0400 From: John Angulo Subject: [IBIS-Users] FW: Quickstart into IBIS / Service for urgent IBIS m odeling The following is posted on behalf of Harald Hardter. Please send all private replies to Harald.Haerdter@Micronas.com. - ------------------------ Hello, Micronas need to start IBIS support for our customers. Details are not discussed yet but we have already an urgent request from Sony to provide IBIS model for one of our new ICs. Do you have a list of service providers offering HSPICE to IBIS conversion in Germany. Thanks in advance Harald H�rdter Harald.Haerdter@Micronas.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:47:14 -0700 From: "Peters, Stephen" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Agenda, IBIS Open Forum Meeting 6/28 IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 6/28/02 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 1-888-316-5901 N/A 2358667 (International Dial-In: 1-617-801-9781) All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Peters - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Peters - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Peters - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Peters - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Leventhal, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuits Electromagnetic Model Proposal (IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) Perrin/Peters - JEDEC JC-16 Modeling and Testing Sessions - T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling Barnes DAC IBIS Summit Meeting Feedback Peters Following IBIS Summit Meetings Peters IBIS Qualification Committee Katz IBIS Open Source Parser Proposal Discussion Katz IBIS Model Review Committee Peters Majordomo Update Angulo New Administrative Issues All 8:45 Technical Discussion IBIS Version 4.0 Discussion/BIRD75 Peters IBIS Version 4.0 Review Peters IBIS Connector and Futures Group Report Peters BIRD74.1 - EMI Parameters de Burgh BIRD75.1 - Multi-Lingual IBIS Model Support Peters/Muranyi ibischk3 Status Peters New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Peters 9:55 Sign Off |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:51:42 -0400 From: John Angulo Subject: [IBIS-Users] Reg spice model file usage The following is posted on behalf of Senthilkumar Kalidoss at IDT. Please send all private replies to skalidas@idt.com. John Angulo IBIS Open Forum Postmaster - -----Original Message----- Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:12:36 -0700 From: "Senthilkumar.Kalidoss" Organization: Integrated Device Technology To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: Reg spice model file usage Hi, I am trying to run s2ibis2.11 to get IBIS model. Unlike the example spice model file which does not have any library definition inside, my current Spice model file has TT,SS,FF etc library definitions. Under each MOS library there are 12 cases. How do i refer the models in the s2i file . In [model file] i can only specify just file names. I appreciate your reply. Thank You, Senthil |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:27:32 -0500 From: John Phillippe Subject: [IBIS-Users] Rising/Falling Waveform generation Dear Everyone, I can't seem to generate decent rising and falling waveforms in IBIS. After looking at the generated spice files, I found that the problem was with the Rfixture and Vfixture. I found that if I didn't use a test fixture of any kind, then the waveforms came out correct. However I had to manually generate them. So I went back and tried monkeying with the Rfixture values, and found that a 100K resistor seems to allow IBIS to generate a good waveform. I've never used an IBIS model in a simulation environment before, and so I guess my question is regarding the Rfixture, and what it is used for. Could I manually generate my edges and then specify an Rfixture of 0 ohms in the ibis file? Is having an Rfixture of 100k going to cause any problems for the end users? - -- John Phillippe SPS, 32 Bit Embedded Controller Division, IC Creation Motorola - 512-895-1835 Austin, TX - ra6314@email.sps.mot.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:52:11 -0700 From: Scott McMorrow Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Rising/Falling Waveform generation John, My guess is there is something wrong with your simulation deck setup. Rfixture and Vfixture is simple load placed on the output of your buffer during VT table extraction. It is no different than setting up your spice deck by hand, attaching a pulse source to the input of the buffer and a resistive load to the output of the buffer and simulating. If your buffer is capable of driving a 50 ohm load, then there should not be a problem with spice2ibis. If there is, it would be generally a setup or connectivity problem. An Rfixture of 100K would be useless to an ibis simulator, since the simulator will attempt to scale the rising and falling waveforms to the actual load impedance of 50 to 75 ohms in system. This scaling would cause significant waveform errors. My suggestion is to setup the buffer independently of spice2ibis and verify that it actually is capable of driving a standard load. If it is, then you have an issue with the connections in the decks used for ibis extraction. Regards, Scott John Phillippe wrote: >Dear Everyone, > I can't seem to generate decent rising and falling waveforms in IBIS. >After looking at the generated spice files, I found that the problem was >with the Rfixture and Vfixture. I found that if I didn't use a test >fixture of any kind, then the waveforms came out correct. However I had >to manually generate them. So I went back and tried monkeying with the >Rfixture values, and found that a 100K resistor seems to allow IBIS to >generate a good waveform. > I've never used an IBIS model in a simulation environment before, and >so I guess my question is regarding the Rfixture, and what it is used >for. Could I manually generate my edges and then specify an Rfixture of >0 ohms in the ibis file? Is having an Rfixture of 100k going to cause >any problems for the end users? > > > - -- Scott McMorrow Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Portland, OR 97214 (503) 239-5536 http://www.teraspeed.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:39:36 -0700 From: "Peters, Stephen" Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD75 -- Additional Information Related to C_comp Refinements Greetings: During the editorial review of IBIS 4.0 several issues were noted with text added by BIRD65, C_comp Refinements. The following BIRD is intended to address these issues. While no technical changes were made, and the intent of BIRD65 remains the same, the text changes were extensive enough to warrant official documentation as a BIRD. BIRD76 is scheduled for discussion and vote at the June 19, 2002 teleconference, and will proceed any vote on the IBIS 4.0 specification itself. If you have any comments on this bird please you are encouraged to post them to the IBIS reflector for discussion. Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. Chair EIA/IBIS Open Forum **************************************************************************** ** **************************************************************************** ** BIRD ID#: 76 ISSUE TITLE: Additional Information Related to C_comp Refinements REQUESTER: Arpad Muranyi, Stephen Peters, Intel DATE SUBMITTED: June 28, 2002 DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: Pending **************************************************************************** ** **************************************************************************** ** STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: During the review of IBIS 4.0, several documentation issues were raised with the original BIRD 65.2. Important information was only documented in the "Statement of the issue", "Statement of the resolved specifications" and "Analysis data/path that led to specification" sections of the BIRD. Specifically, there was no text added to the specification that described how the additional distributed capacitances created by BIRD65 were to be applied to the prototype simulation model. In addition, some of the usage rules did not distinquish between use of a subparameter and use of its value. Therefore, this BIRD is proposed. This new version contains only editorial changes and additions to the current text. Changes are indicated by "****" at the beginning of the changed lines. **************************************************************************** ** STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: Four new subparameters shall be introduced in the IBIS specification under the [Model] keyword to provide means for a more detailed description for the die capacitance. These new subparameters, C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power, and C_comp_gnd are associated with the corresponding voltage reference keywords, [Pullup Reference], [Pulldown Reference], [Power Clamp Reference], and [GND Clamp Reference], respectively. This mechanism allows the association of a specific capacitance between the I/O node and the four possible supply nodes without disturbing the submodel syntax. The syntax of these four new subparameters are identical to the existing C_comp subparameter. |=========================================================================== == | Keyword: [Model] | Required: Yes. | Description: Used to define a model, and its attributes. | Sub-Params: Model_type, Polarity, Enable, Vinl, Vinh, C_comp, |**** C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power_clamp, and |**** C_comp_gnd_clamp Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref | Usage Rules: Each model type must begin with the keyword [Model]. The | model name must match the one that is listed under a [Pin], | [Model Selector] or [Series Pin Mapping] keyword and must not | contain more than 20 characters. A .ibs file must contain | enough [Model] keywords to cover all of the model names | specified under the [Pin], [Model Selector] and [Series Pin | Mapping] keywords, except for those model names that use | reserved words (POWER, GND and NC). | | Model_type must be one of the following: | | Input, Output, I/O, 3-state, Open_drain, I/O_open_drain, | Open_sink, I/O_open_sink, Open_source, I/O_open_source, | Input_ECL, Output_ECL, I/O_ECL, 3-state_ECL, Terminator, | Series, and Series_switch. | | Special usage rules apply to the following. Some definitions | are included for clarification: | | Input These model types must have Vinl and Vinh | I/O defined. If they are not defined, the | I/O_open_drain parser issues a warning and the default | I/O_open_sink values of Vinl = 0.8 V and Vinh = 2.0 V are | I/O_open_source assumed. | | Input_ECL These model types must have Vinl and Vinh | I/O_ECL defined. If they are not defined, the | parser issues a warning and the default | values of Vinl = -1.475 V and Vinh = | -1.165 V are assumed. | | Terminator This model type is an input-only model | that can have analog loading effects on the | circuit being simulated but has no digital | logic thresholds. Examples of Terminators | are: capacitors, termination diodes, and | pullup resistors. | | Output This model type indicates that an output | always sources and/or sinks current and | cannot be disabled. | | 3-state This model type indicates that an output | can be disabled, i.e. put into a high | impedance state. | | Open_sink These model types indicate that the output | Open_drain has an OPEN side (do not use the [Pullup] | keyword, or if it must be used, set I = | 0 mA for all voltages specified) and the | output SINKS current. Open_drain model | type is retained for backward | compatibility. | | Open_source This model type indicates that the output | has an OPEN side (do not use the [Pulldown] | keyword, or if it must be used, set I = | 0 mA for all voltages specified) and the | output SOURCES current. | | Input_ECL These model types specify that the model | Output_ECL represents an ECL type logic that follows | I/O_ECL different conventions for the [Pulldown] | 3-state_ECL keyword. | | Series This model type is for series models that | can be described by [R Series], [L Series], | [Rl Series], [C Series], [Lc Series], | [Rc Series], [Series Current] and [Series | MOSFET] keywords | | Series_switch This model type is for series switch | models that can be described by [On], | [Off], [R Series], [L Series], [Rl Series], | [C Series], [Lc Series], [Rc Series], | [Series Current] and [Series MOSFET] | keywords | |** The Model_type subparameter is required. |**** |**** The C_comp subparameter is required only when C_comp_pullup, |**** C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power_clamp, and C_comp_gnd_clamp are |**** not present. If the C_comp subparameter is not present, at |**** least one of the C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, |**** C_comp_power_clamp, or C_comp_gnd_clamp subparameters is |**** required. It is not illegal to include the C_comp subparameter |**** together with one or more of the remaining C_comp* |**** subparameters, but in that case the simulator tool will have to |**** make a decision whether to use C_comp or the C_comp_pullup, |**** C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power_clamp, and C_comp_gnd_clamp |**** subparameters. Under no circumstances should the simulator use |**** the value of C_comp simultaneously with the values of other |**** C_comp* subparameters. | |**** C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power_clamp, and |**** C_comp_gnd_clamp are intended to represent the parasitic |**** capacitances of those structures who's I-V characteristics |**** are described by the [Pullup], [Pulldown], [POWER Clamp] and |**** [GND Clamp] I-V curves. For this reason, the simulator tool |**** should generate a circuit netlist so that, if defined, each of |**** the C_comp* capacitors are connected parallel with their |**** corresponding I-V curve generators, that is between the signal |**** pad and the nodes defined by the [Pullup Reference], |**** [Pulldown Reference], [POWER Clamp Reference] and [GND Clamp |**** Reference] keywords, or the [Voltage Range] keyword and GND. | |**** The C_comp and C_comp* parameters define die capacitance. These |**** values should not include the capacitance of the package. |**** C_comp and C_comp* are allowed to use "NA" for the min and max |**** values only. | |**** The Polarity, Enable, Vinl, Vinh, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, and Vref |**** subparameters are optional. The Polarity subparameter can be | defined as either Non-Inverting or Inverting, and the Enable | subparameter can be defined as either Active-High or | Active-Low. | | The Cref and Rref subparameters correspond to the test load | that the semiconductor vendor uses when specifying the | propagation delay and/or output switching time of the model. | The Vmeas subparameter is the reference voltage level that the | semiconductor vendor uses for the model. Include Cref, Rref, | Vref, and Vmeas information to facilitate board-level timing | simulation. The assumed connections for Cref, Rref, and Vref | are shown in the following diagram: | | _________ | | | | | |\ | Rref | |Driver| \|------o----/\/\/\----o Vref | | | /| | | | |/ | === Cref | |_________| | | | | GND | | Other Notes: A complete [Model] description normally contains the following | keywords: [Voltage Range], [Pullup], [Pulldown], [GND Clamp], | [POWER Clamp], and [Ramp]. A Terminator model uses one or | more of the [Rgnd], [Rpower], [Rac], and [Cac]. However, some | models may have only a subset of these keywords. For example, | an input structure normally only needs the [Voltage Range], | [GND Clamp], and possibly the [POWER Clamp] keywords. If one | or more of [Rgnd], [Rpower], [Rac], and [Cac] keywords are | used, then the Model_type must be Terminator. |--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- | Signals CLK1, CLK2,... | Optional signal list, if desired [Model] Clockbuffer Model_type I/O Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-High Vinl = 0.8V | input logic "low" DC voltage, if any Vinh = 2.0V | input logic "high" DC voltage, if any Vmeas = 1.5V | Reference voltage for timing measurements Cref = 50pF | Timing specification test load capacitance value Rref = 500 | Timing specification test load resistance value Vref = 0 | Timing specification test load voltage | variable typ min max C_comp 12.0pF 10.0pF 15.0pF | |=========================================================================== == | [Model] Clockbuffer Model_type I/O Vinl = 0.8V | input logic "low" DC voltage, if any Vinh = 2.0V | input logic "high" DC voltage, if any | | variable typ min max C_comp_pullup 3.0pF 2.5pF 3.5pF C_comp_pulldown 2.0pF 1.5pF 2.5pF C_comp_power 1.0pF 0.5pF 1.5pF C_comp_gnd 1.0pF 0.5pF 1.5pF | The last paragraph of the Usage Rules section of the [Rising Waveform], [Falling Waveform] keyword description is changed as follows: | All tables assume that the die capacitance is included. | Potential numerical problems associated with processing the |* data using the effective C_comp (C_comp or C_comp* as |* appropriate) for effective die capacitance may be handled |* differently among simulators. **************************************************************************** ** ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: Needed information on where the distributed capacitance went, thus the addition of a paragraph to explain this. Also, the names of two of the original subparameters, "C_comp_power" and "C_comp_gnd", were changed to "C_comp_power_clamp" and "C_comp_gnd_clamp" respectivly to better reflect their purpose. Some minor wording changes to the current draft text were also done. Finally, updated a bit of text in the waveform keywords, per John Angulo's sugestion. **************************************************************************** ** ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: **************************************************************************** ** |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:43:26 -0500 From: John Phillippe Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Rising/Falling Waveform generation Scott McMorrow wrote: > > John, > > My guess is there is something wrong with your simulation deck setup. > Rfixture and Vfixture is simple load placed on the output of your > buffer during VT table extraction. It is no different than setting up > your spice deck by hand, attaching a pulse source to the input of the > buffer and a resistive load to the output of the buffer and simulating. > If your buffer is capable of driving a 50 ohm load, then there should > not be a problem with spice2ibis. If there is, it would be generally a > setup or connectivity problem. > > An Rfixture of 100K would be useless to an ibis simulator, since the > simulator will attempt to scale the rising and falling waveforms to the > actual load impedance of 50 to 75 ohms in system. This scaling would > cause significant waveform errors. > > My suggestion is to setup the buffer independently of spice2ibis and > verify that it actually is capable of driving a standard load. If it > is, then you have an issue with the connections in the decks used for > ibis extraction. > > Regards, > > Scott > > John Phillippe wrote: > > >Dear Everyone, > > I can't seem to generate decent rising and falling waveforms in IBIS. > >After looking at the generated spice files, I found that the problem was > >with the Rfixture and Vfixture. I found that if I didn't use a test > >fixture of any kind, then the waveforms came out correct. However I had > >to manually generate them. So I went back and tried monkeying with the > >Rfixture values, and found that a 100K resistor seems to allow IBIS to > >generate a good waveform. > > I've never used an IBIS model in a simulation environment before, and > >so I guess my question is regarding the Rfixture, and what it is used > >for. Could I manually generate my edges and then specify an Rfixture of > >0 ohms in the ibis file? Is having an Rfixture of 100k going to cause > >any problems for the end users? Scott, When I setup the rising/falling test with a 50ohm load, and let s2ibis do it's runs, I get corresponding rising and falling waveforms, my problems lie in the fact that my waveforms never go from gnd to Vdd. The following 4 lines are taken from one of my .s2i files. [Rising waveform] 50 5.0 4.75 5.25 NA 50pF 233.0m 9.35nH 0.87pF [Falling waveform] 50 5.0 4.75 5.25 NA 50pF 233.0m 9.35nH 0.87pF [Rising waveform] 50 0 NA NA NA 50pF 233.0m 9.35nH 0.87pF [Falling waveform] 50 0 NA NA NA 50pF 233.0m 9.35nH 0.87pF When looking at the results, the rising and falling waveforms with a Vfixture of 5V, have a rising waveform starting at a value above 0V, and ending at 5V. The falling waveform starts at 5V, and ends above 0V. The waveforms with a Vfixture of 0V have a bottom of 0V, but a ceiling of less than 5V. It doesn't "seem right." If this is how it should be however, someone please let me know! I would expect voltage range of between 0V and 5V. Thanks. - -- John Phillippe SPS, 32 Bit Embedded Controller Division, IC Creation Motorola - 512-895-1835 Austin, TX - ra6314@email.sps.mot.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:21:11 -0700 From: "Peters, Stephen" Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD 76 - Additional Information Related to C_comp Refinements This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_000_01C21F02.DF568460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" (Resending with the correct subject line and as an attachement to eliminate line wraps Appologies, Stephen) Greetings: During the editorial review of IBIS 4.0 several issues were noted with text added by BIRD65, C_comp Refinements. The following BIRD is intended to address these issues. While no technical changes were made, and the intent of BIRD65 remains the same, the text changes were extensive enough to warrant official documentation as a BIRD. BIRD76 is scheduled for discussion and vote at the June 19, 2002 teleconference, and will proceed any vote on the IBIS 4.0 specification itself. If you have any comments on this bird please you are encouraged to post them to the IBIS reflector for discussion. Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. 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subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ End of ibis-users V1 #6 ***********************