From: owner-ibis-users@ (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #24 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@ Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@ Precedence: bulk ibis-users Wednesday, May 28 2003 Volume 01 : Number 024 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 14 May 2003 09:11:37 -0700 From: Syed Huq Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Problem in ibs file generated by s2ibs2 First of all, you are using an older version of s2ibis2. You should download the s2ibis2_fix.tar.Z I have seen these repetition of data points. Not sure what causes it. You have to delete them to clean up the file. Delete everything below 3.6V as well as one of the -0.9 entries. Syed On Wed, 2003-05-14 at 04:56, Birendra Rana wrote: > Hi all, > > I have generated an IBIS Model for an I/O buffer using s2ibis2 script. > Interestingly the generated ibs file has entries in the Pull down > table as follows : > > [Pulldown] > | voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) > | > -1.80 -42.50mA -54.11mA -28.61mA > . > . > . > -0.90 -36.68mA -30.62mA -38.74mA > -0.90 -36.68mA -30.62mA -38.74mA <- > Repetition of above data > -0.80 -37.07mA -29.68mA -41.00mA > . > . > . > 0.00 0.36uA 2.61nA 2.86uA > . > . > . > 3.60 94.05mA 80.81mA 0.11A > 0.00 -1.80A 0.11kA -92.95A <- > ????? > -137.28 -1.70A -99.02A -82.08A <- > ????? > 3.60 94.05mA 80.81mA 0.11A <- > Repetition of 3.60V entry data > > Similar kind of entries (like the repetition of -0.90V and 3.60V data > and extra 2 rows) are there in the Pullup table. The ".out" > files however look alright. > > Any reasons for these extra / repetitive entries ? > > Regards, > > Birendra > **************************Disclaimer************************************ > > Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Wipro Limited is > 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the individual > or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use, copying > or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any manner > whatsoever is strictly prohibited. > > *************************************************************************** |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:52:58 -0400 From: "Mike LaBonte" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Problem in ibs file generated by s2ibs2 The fixed s2ibis2 prints 4 digits after the decimal instead of 2. With only 2 digits, voltage differences less than 10mV between points make them appear identical. Also there is a parameter in s2idflt.h: #define DIODE_DROP_DEFAULT 1.0 This is used by s2ibis2 to jump around in the SPICE data to find beginnings and ends of "linear" and "non-linear" regions. On lower voltage devices the 1V value makes s2ibis2 jump too far and pick up wrong data or ignore data. Change the value to 0.7, recompile, and s2ibis2 will work better. Mike LaBonte > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On > Behalf Of Syed Huq > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 12:12 PM > To: Birendra Rana > Cc: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Problem in ibs file generated by s2ibs2 > > > First of all, you are using an older version of s2ibis2. You should > download the s2ibis2_fix.tar.Z > > I have seen these repetition of data points. Not sure what causes it. > You have to delete them to clean up the file. > > Delete everything below 3.6V as well as one of the -0.9 entries. > > Syed > > On Wed, 2003-05-14 at 04:56, Birendra Rana wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I have generated an IBIS Model for an I/O buffer using s2ibis2 script. > > Interestingly the generated ibs file has entries in the Pull down > > table as follows : > > > > [Pulldown] > > | voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) > > | > > -1.80 -42.50mA -54.11mA -28.61mA > > . > > . > > . > > -0.90 -36.68mA -30.62mA -38.74mA > > -0.90 -36.68mA -30.62mA -38.74mA <- > > Repetition of above data > > -0.80 -37.07mA -29.68mA -41.00mA > > . > > . > > . > > 0.00 0.36uA 2.61nA 2.86uA > > . > > . > > . > > 3.60 94.05mA 80.81mA 0.11A > > 0.00 -1.80A 0.11kA -92.95A <- > > ????? > > -137.28 -1.70A -99.02A -82.08A <- > > ????? > > 3.60 94.05mA 80.81mA 0.11A <- > > Repetition of 3.60V entry data > > > > Similar kind of entries (like the repetition of -0.90V and 3.60V data > > and extra 2 rows) are there in the Pullup table. The ".out" > > files however look alright. > > > > Any reasons for these extra / repetitive entries ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Birendra > > **************************Disclaimer************************************ > > > > Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Wipro > Limited is > > 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by > the individual > > or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any > use, copying > > or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in > any manner > > whatsoever is strictly prohibited. > > > > > ****************************************************************** > ********* > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis > | subscribe ibis-users > | unsubscribe ibis > | unsubscribe ibis-users > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:09:49 -0700 From: Kannan Srinivasagam Subject: [IBIS-Users] Question On Input buffers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------6EF91DAAA82EB439F5708434 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Could someone clarify why my input buffer gnd clamp IV table starts from -1.50ua at -1.5V goes to 0 at 0V and goes back to 1.5ua at 1.5V. Is this correct. I believe it should start from a specific value and go down to 0V. Just want to know what might be wrong : is it my spice netlist( working fine with spice sims) or my .s2i file. Thanks Kannan - --------------6EF91DAAA82EB439F5708434 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="pks.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Kannan Srinivasagam Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pks.vcf" begin:vcard n:Srinivasagam;P Kannan tel;fax:408-943-4724 tel;work:408-943-6817 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Cypress Semiconductor;MPD/MTI New Product Development version:2.1 email;internet:pks@cypress.com title:Senior Application Engineer adr;quoted-printable:;;3901 North First Street=0D=0ASan Jose,CA 95134;;;; fn:Kannan Srinivasagam end:vcard - --------------6EF91DAAA82EB439F5708434-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:05:34 +0200 From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl - --=_mixed 003D1E82C1256D27_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 003D1E82C1256D27_=" - --=_alternative 003D1E82C1256D27_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" __________________ Dear Tom, Herewith I send you the s2i file that causes the errors described previously. As I understand from the reactions here, some more people have encountered similar problems. With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 "Tom Dagostino" 05/14/03 07:20 PM Please respond to tom To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 cc: Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl Classification: s2i is all I need for now. Tom Dagostino Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065 tom@teraspeed.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 6:25 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl Tom, Do you need the netlist as well, or is the plain s2i file good enough for you? (because I cannot send you the spectre file). Birendra seems to have a similar problem. Alex, I am using Spectre for simulations. With kind regards, Erik. Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 "Tom Dagostino" 05/12/03 05:53 PM Please respond to tom To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 cc: Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl Classification: I've seen some other models with this kind of issue in them from s2ibis. I'm not sure what causes this, it was a while ago and the half life of old problems is relatively short. I would first start by looking at the input file that is generated. Be sure you do not have any typos in it, that the voltages are correct, etc. Send me a copy if you want and I'll take a look at it. Tom Dagostino Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065 tom@teraspeed.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 12:37 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl Tom, About the garbage lines: I use s2ibis for model type output_ECL. Voltage range has been left out (since this created a voltage source of 1.9V to the ground node in the spectre simulation files). Pull-up and pull-down references have been set to 3.3V. The result is an IBIS file that contains a pulldown-curve starting at 1.1V and continuing up to 3.3V. Then the next voltages are: 2.05, 9 times 0V and 3.3V. Most currents are equal to the 3.3V current except for the max current, which is increasing for every line (note that I filled in the typical values for the the min and max cases). The pull-up curve ranges from 0V to 2.2V and is then followed by 10 times 0V and 2.2V. The current for the 0V lines is always 0.000A, except for the first one. So I get some strange values and the range is from 0-2.2V instead of -3.3 to 6.6V. With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 "Tom Dagostino" 05/09/03 07:11 PM Please respond to tom To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 cc: Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl Classification: Erik In the old days (in the 60s) when Motorola first developed ECL They found that running ECL from 0 to -5.2 volts worked better because the ground planes on boards at the time was cleaner. ECL is referenced to the most positive supply, thus a clean reference was important. In those days the ground could have been a complete plane of the board but power was in many cases distributed via traces on one of the layer. In today's modern circuit boards both the power and ground are distributed in planes so this is not an issue. The voltage difference you see is not important. When you are running the SPICE simulation you just need to connect the Vcc to 3.3 and the Vee to ground to get the PECL model. Remember the 50 Ohm termination needs to be connected to Vcc - 2 volts or 1.3 for the typical case when running the AC simulations. I do have concerns about the table range you are seeing. It should be between -3.3 and +6.6 Volts for all the IV tables. The simulator does several things with the data. First of all it will check the data to ensure it is at least consistent, has not syntax issues, etc. Then, for outputs, it builds a set of coefficients that describes how the buffer transitions from pullup to pulldown and from pulldown to pullup. This table is based on the VT waveforms and the IV curves. The output impedance of the buffer is composed of the sum of the pullup or pulldown IV table plus the power and ground clamps plus the component of C_comp. If the buffer is an input the the power and ground clamps are summed and put in parallel with C_comp. Because the model is designated ECL, the simulator makes one different calculation for the pulldown table than it does for CMOS, see below. What is the 10 lines of garbage you are seeing? Hope that helps. Tom Dagostino Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065 tom@teraspeed.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 12:41 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl Tom, Thank you for your reply. I am starting with a Spectre netlist. I have tried s2ibis to make a model for LVPECL. I noticed some differences. ECL has a supply of 0V (plus) and -5.2V (neg). My circuit has a supply of 3.3V (plus) and 0V (neg). The pulldown table ranges from 1.1V to 3.3V (the pull down reference has been set to 3.3V, the pull-up reference as well), followed by ten lines of garbage. A collegue of mine has changed to pragram a bit so the pull down curve starts at 0V and ends at 2.2V (still followed by ten lines of garbage). Is this a correct range? What does the simulator that uses the IBIS model do with the information that it is an output-ECL model type? And how are the data tables interpreted in conjunction with the ECL_model type? With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 "Tom Dagostino" 05/08/03 07:16 PM Please respond to tom To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 cc: Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl Classification: Erik What are you starting with? A SPICE description or are you going to make the model from measurements? If you start with SPICE there is a spice to ibis program that you can download from the ibis home page. If you are starting from measurements then you will need a lot of equipment to make the measurements. You will have to manually convert the measurements to the ibis data. Simulators use the output_ecl line to know how to handle ECL. In IBIS ECL models are slightly different than standard CMOS or TTL drivers. In CMOS or TTL the pulldown current is sunk into the ground plane and the pullup current is sourced from the supply. With PECL both the pullup and pulldown are sourced from the supply. So in PECL the pulldown is referenced to the supply, not ground. The simulator needs to know this when it is using the IV tables. Tom Dagostino Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065 tom@teraspeed.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:04 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl Dear all, I think I mailed my question too early since I subscribed to the user group at the same time. So I'll post it again, please see below. Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - ----- Forwarded by Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS on 05/08/03 09:03 AM - ----- Erik van der Ven 05/06/03 02:01 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org cc: Subject: (lv)pecl Classification: Unclassified 1. How can I make an IBIS model of a (LV)PECL model? 2. What does an IBIS simulator do with the model type information (like output_ECL)? Can anyone help me? Thanks. With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 003D1E82C1256D27_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

__________________

Dear Tom,


Herewith I send you the s2i file that causes the errors described previously. As I understand from the reactions here, some more people have encountered similar problems.


With kind regards,



Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334







"Tom Dagostino" <tom@teraspeed.com>

05/14/03 07:20 PM
Please respond to tom

       
        To:        Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
        cc:        
        Subject:        RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl

        Classification:        




s2i is all I need for now.
 
Tom Dagostino
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC     Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
2926 SE Yamhill St.                Device Modeling Division
Portland, OR 97214                 13610 SW Harness Lane
                                   Beaverton, OR 97008
http://www.teraspeed.com           503-430-1065

tom@teraspeed.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 6:25 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl

Tom,

Do you need the netlist as well, or is the plain s2i file good enough for you? (because I cannot send you the spectre file).

Birendra seems to have a similar problem.


Alex,

I am using Spectre for simulations.


With kind regards,
Erik.


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334






"Tom Dagostino" <tom@teraspeed.com>

05/12/03 05:53 PM
Please respond to tom

       
       To:        Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
       cc:        
       Subject:        RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl

        Classification:        




I've seen some other models with this kind of issue in them from s2ibis.  I'm not sure what causes this, it was a while ago and the half life of old problems is relatively short.  I would first start by looking at the input file that is generated.  Be sure you do not have any typos in it, that the voltages are correct, etc.  Send me a copy if you want and I'll take a look at it.
 
Tom Dagostino
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC     Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
2926 SE Yamhill St.                Device Modeling Division
Portland, OR 97214                 13610 SW Harness Lane
                                  Beaverton, OR 97008
http://www.teraspeed.com           503-430-1065

tom@teraspeed.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 12:37 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl


Tom,

About the garbage lines:
I use s2ibis for model type output_ECL.
Voltage range has been  left out (since this created a voltage source of 1.9V to the ground node in the spectre simulation files).
Pull-up and pull-down references have been set to 3.3V.

The result is an IBIS file that contains a pulldown-curve starting at 1.1V and continuing up to 3.3V.
Then the next voltages are: 2.05, 9 times 0V and 3.3V. Most currents are equal to the 3.3V current except for the max current, which is increasing for every line (note that I filled in the typical values for the the min and max cases).

The pull-up curve ranges from 0V to 2.2V and is then followed by 10 times 0V and 2.2V. The current for the 0V lines is always 0.000A, except for the first one.

So I get some strange values and the range is from 0-2.2V instead of -3.3 to 6.6V.

With kind regards,



Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334





"Tom Dagostino" <tom@teraspeed.com>

05/09/03 07:11 PM
Please respond to tom

       
      To:        Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
      cc:        
      Subject:        RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl

        Classification:        




Erik

In the old days (in the 60s) when Motorola first developed ECL They found that running ECL from 0 to -5.2 volts worked better because the ground planes on boards at the time was cleaner.  ECL is referenced to the most positive supply, thus a clean reference was important.  In those days the ground could have been a complete plane of the board but power was in many cases distributed via traces on one of the layer.  In today's modern circuit boards both the power and ground are distributed in planes so this is not an issue.  

The voltage difference you see is not important.  When you are running the SPICE simulation you just need to connect the Vcc to 3.3 and the Vee to ground to get the PECL model.  Remember the 50 Ohm termination needs to be connected to Vcc - 2 volts or 1.3 for the typical case when running the AC simulations.

I do have concerns about the table range you are seeing.  It should be between -3.3 and +6.6 Volts for all the IV tables.

The simulator does several things with the data.  First of all it will check the data to ensure it is at least consistent, has not syntax issues, etc.  Then, for outputs, it builds a set of coefficients that describes how the buffer transitions from pullup to pulldown and from pulldown to pullup.  This table is based on the VT waveforms and the IV curves.

The output impedance of the buffer is composed of the sum of the pullup or pulldown IV table plus the power and ground clamps plus the component of C_comp.

If the buffer is an input the the power and ground clamps are summed and put in parallel with C_comp.

Because the model is designated ECL, the simulator makes one different calculation for the pulldown table than it does for CMOS, see below.

What is the 10 lines of garbage you are seeing?

Hope that helps.

Tom Dagostino
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC     Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
2926 SE Yamhill St.                Device Modeling Division
Portland, OR 97214                 13610 SW Harness Lane
                                 Beaverton, OR 97008
http://www.teraspeed.com           503-430-1065

tom@teraspeed.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 12:41 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl


Tom,

Thank you for your reply. I am starting with a Spectre netlist. I have tried s2ibis to make a model for LVPECL.
I noticed some differences. ECL has a supply of 0V (plus) and -5.2V (neg). My circuit has a supply of 3.3V (plus) and 0V (neg).
The pulldown table ranges from 1.1V to 3.3V (the pull down reference has been set to 3.3V, the pull-up reference as well), followed by ten lines of garbage. A collegue of mine has changed to pragram a bit so the pull down curve starts at 0V and ends at 2.2V (still followed by ten lines of garbage).
Is this a correct range?
What does the simulator that uses the IBIS model do with the information that it is an output-ECL model type? And how are the data tables interpreted in conjunction with the ECL_model type?

With kind regards,

Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334





"Tom Dagostino" <tom@teraspeed.com>

05/08/03 07:16 PM
Please respond to tom

       
     To:        Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
     cc:        
     Subject:        RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl

        Classification:        




Erik

What are you starting with?  A SPICE description or are you going to make the model from measurements?  If you start with SPICE there is a spice to ibis program that you can download from the ibis home page.  If you are starting from measurements then you will need a lot of equipment to make the measurements.  You will have to manually convert the measurements to the ibis data.

Simulators use the output_ecl line to know how to handle ECL.  In IBIS ECL models are slightly different than standard CMOS or TTL drivers.  In CMOS or TTL the pulldown current is sunk into the ground plane and the pullup current is sourced from the supply.  With PECL both the pullup and pulldown are sourced from the supply.  So in PECL the pulldown is referenced to the supply, not ground.  The simulator needs to know this when it is using the IV tables.

Tom Dagostino
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC     Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
2926 SE Yamhill St.                Device Modeling Division
Portland, OR 97214                 13610 SW Harness Lane
                                Beaverton, OR 97008
http://www.teraspeed.com           503-430-1065

tom@teraspeed.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:04 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl


Dear all,

I think I mailed my question too early since I subscribed to the user group at the same time. So I'll post it again, please see below.

Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334
- ----- Forwarded by Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS on 05/08/03 09:03 AM -----





Erik van der Ven

05/06/03 02:01 PM

       
    To:        ibis-users@eda.org
    cc:        
    Subject:        (lv)pecl

        Classification:        Unclassified



1. How can I make an IBIS model of a (LV)PECL model?
2. What does an IBIS simulator do with the model type information (like output_ECL)?

Can anyone help me?
Thanks.

With kind regards,

Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334

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Is it possible to simulate IBIS models with spectre? This makes it easy to compare the model to the spectre simulations.



Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 004B9AF0C1256D27_=-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:11:41 -0400 From: "Ingraham, Andrew" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Question On Input buffers That sounds like the current from a 1 MegOhm resistor to ground. The IBIS "Clamp" tables include everything that is present on inputs, or outputs when not actively driving. That includes leakage current, on-chip terminators, other resistors or always-enabled FETs, etc. Not just diodes. The fact that the current is only -1.50 uA at -1.5 V implies that there is no actual diode in your model. Regards, Andy > Could someone clarify why my input buffer gnd clamp IV table > starts from -1.50ua at -1.5V goes to 0 at 0V and goes back to 1.5ua at > 1.5V. Is this correct. I believe it should start from a specific value > and go down to 0V. Just want to know what might be wrong : is it my > spice netlist( working fine with spice sims) or my .s2i file. |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: 15 May 2003 09:34:40 -0700 From: Syed Huq Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Question On Input buffers For a GND Clamp at -1.5V, you should see a large current and not in uA. It means your GND Clamp(if present), did not turn on. When you say, "working fine with spice sims", what current value do you get at -1.5V ? Syed On Wed, 2003-05-14 at 14:09, Kannan Srinivasagam wrote: > Hi, > Could someone clarify why my input buffer gnd clamp IV table > starts from -1.50ua at -1.5V goes to 0 at 0V and goes back to 1.5ua at > 1.5V. Is this correct. I believe it should start from a specific value > and go down to 0V. Just want to know what might be wrong : is it my > spice netlist( working fine with spice sims) or my .s2i file. > > Thanks > Kannan > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:36:14 -0700 From: Kannan Srinivasagam Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Question On Input buffers Hi, I reran the spice sims. There was something wrong in the netlist itself. The diode was some reason was not turning on. It is working now when I reextracted the netlist. Thanks for all your help. Kannan Syed Huq wrote: > For a GND Clamp at -1.5V, you should see a large current and not in uA. > It means your GND Clamp(if present), did not turn on. > > When you say, "working fine with spice sims", what current value do you > get at -1.5V ? > > Syed > > On Wed, 2003-05-14 at 14:09, Kannan Srinivasagam wrote: > > Hi, > > Could someone clarify why my input buffer gnd clamp IV table > > starts from -1.50ua at -1.5V goes to 0 at 0V and goes back to 1.5ua at > > 1.5V. Is this correct. I believe it should start from a specific value > > and go down to 0V. Just want to know what might be wrong : is it my > > spice netlist( working fine with spice sims) or my .s2i file. > > > > Thanks > > Kannan > > > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:08:08 -0700 From: "Angulo, John" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl The following is posted on behalf of Alex Hilbers at ASML. Please send any private replies to alex.hilbers@asml.com only. - -----Original Message----- Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 10:37:22 +0200 (MEST) From: Alex Hilbers Reply-To: Alex Hilbers Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl To: ibis-users@server.eda.org, erik.van.der.ven@philips.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: mzgGSqmVM0Jh8ykmeiLdvA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.4.6_06 SunOS 5.8 sun4u sparc Erik, I donot know which type of Spice simulator you use, but within PStar you should be able to find Most Model 9. When characterisation has been done correctly, this model includes non-ideal clamp diodes. If you are using HSpice: Philips Most Model 9 is found in HSpice as level 50, if memory serves me well. Regards, Alex > From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:49:50 +0200 > X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ehv001soh/H/SERVER/PHILIPS(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 13/05/2003 10:50:12, Serialize complete at 13/05/2003 10:50:12 > > As Tom and Fred suggest I have to add "some" resistance to the clamp > diodes to prevent high currents. Must these device models be characterised > or should I just add an arbitrary value. If so what will be the value of > this information. I still don't have the insight what an IBIS simulator > does do with the clamping info? > > With kind regards, > > > Ir. Erik van der Ven > Room DB1032 > Business Line Networking Infrastructure > Philips Semiconductors BV > Gerstweg 2 > 6534 AE Nijmegen > The Netherlands > Phone: +31-24-3534334 > > > > > > > > > > "Tom Dagostino" > 05/12/03 06:41 PM > Please respond to tom > > > To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 > > cc: > Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl > Classification: > > > > Erik > > Fred is right that for an ECL model that the voltage range that has to be > characterized is over the 0 to Vcc - 2V range in the table. I like to see > at least the active region between 0 and Vcc modeled. There are some ECL > parts that will not be adequately characterized by only going from 0 to > Vcc - 2V. If I remember correctly ON Semi makes some ECL line drivers > that have about twice the swing of normal ECL. > > Fred, the garbage Erik referred to was multiple lines in the tables that > have the same voltage values and zero current. I've seen models with > this before but I don't remember the cause of it. > > Yes, IBIS likely goes too far into the clamp regions for characterization. > If your clamp currents are extreme it is likely that the clamp diodes > have not been properly characterized in their SPICE models. If you are > seeing more than a few amperes in the clamps you can assume the intrinsic > resistance of the diodes, the metal, etc. have not been fully > characterized. To eliminate this try adding a few hundred milli Ohms in > series with the clamps to bring the currents down to a more realistic > level. > > Tom Dagostino > Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC > 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division > Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane > Beaverton, OR 97008 > http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065 > tom@teraspeed.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 1:44 AM > To: ibis-users@server.eda.org > Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl > > > Dear Fred, > > Thank you for your reply. About the garbage; I explained it in an email I > just sent (directed to Tom). > > The s2ibis program does not generate IV- tables from 0-2.2V, but the > program that has been modified by my collegue does do this (apart from the > "garbage" that both programs produce). > Is this range enough? According to Tom it should be -3.3-6.6V. Where is > this range for ECL/PECL defined? I cannot find it in the specification. > > When the voltage is out of the normal operating range the currents can be > very high, even so high that the transistor models are not valid anymore. > What is the use of specifying these currents? Can they be left out? If > not, what is done with this information. > I have the same question for the clamp currents. The output can be > disabled, so this is a kind of tri-state (not really high impedant). Also > here the currents are unrealistically high. What is done with this > information? Why must it be specified? The PECL voltage swing is such that > even a fully reflected signal will not cause the output to be outside the > supply range. > > With kind regards, > > > > Ir. Erik van der Ven > Room DB1032 > Business Line Networking Infrastructure > Philips Semiconductors BV > Gerstweg 2 > 6534 AE Nijmegen > The Netherlands > Phone: +31-24-3534334 > > > > > > > > > Fred Balistreri > Sent by: > fred@interjet.apsimtech.com > 05/09/03 07:10 PM > > To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 > cc: > Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] (lv)pecl > Classification: > > > > Erik, you need to define what convention you are > using when you say voltage range. Remember that > for ECL and PECL both the pullup and pulldown > reference is the same. If the voltage range > you refer to is the IBIS Vtable then your > range is not correct. Under the IBIS conventions > for ECL or PECL type Vtable= Vcc - Vout. > This is true for both pullup/pulldown for PECL/ECL. > IBIS further explains that for ECL, PECL the > range should be VCC - 2.2 volts. Under the > IBIS rules then the range should always be > 0 - 2.2 volts for both pullup and pulldown. > Note that 0 really means 3.3 at the output > for your case and 2.2 really means 1.1 at the > output. > > I don't quite understand your problem. You state > garbage. It's probably not quite descriptive > enough to understand your issue. Although the > meaning is clear. > > > Best Regards, > > erik.van.der.ven@philips.com wrote: > > > > Part 1.1Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > > -- > Fred Balistreri > fred@apsimtech.com > > http://www.apsimtech.com > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Alex Hilbers Email: alex.hilbers@asml.com ASML Tel: +31(0)402685587 P.O. Box 324 Fax: +31(0)402685530 5500 AH Veldhoven Building 7K-0002 The Netherlands Department: EDEV Signal Integrity and Thermal Analysis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:12:49 -0700 From: "Angulo, John" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Problem in ibs file generated by s2ibs2 The following is posted on behalf of Itzik Peleg at Marvell Semiconductor. Please send any private replies to itzik.peleg@il.marvell.com only. - -----Original Message----- Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:31:19 +0200 From: Itzik Peleg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Birendra Rana CC: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Problem in ibs file generated by s2ibs2 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Birendra This is a common "Bug" that spice to ibis has. Just delete the unnecessary lines. - -- Regards Itzik Peleg Board Technology Group Marvell Semiconductor Israel Ltd Moshav Manof, D.N. Misgav 20184, ISRAEL Email - itzik.peleg@il.marvell.com Tel - +972 4 9951192 Cell - +972 54 452482 Fax - +972 4 9999334 WWW Page: http://www.marvell.com ======================================================================== This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. 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Thank you! ======================================================================== |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:37:38 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Summits: Third Call for DAC, Second Call for DesignCon East * Third Call for Papers for IBIS Summit at DAC * Second Call for Papers for IBIS Summit at DesignCon East - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT AT DAC THIRD CALL FOR PARTICIPATION & PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: Thursday June 5, 2003, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM Location: Marriot Hotel Anaheim, CA Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. 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DesignCon East: June 23-25, 2003 Best Western Royal Plaza Hotel and Trade Center Marlborough Massachusetts DesignCon offers a 30% discount for IBIS members who register for the technical program at http://www.iec.org/events/2003/designcon_east/ibis.html. See for more information. BACKGROUND DesignCon is the premier annual Silicon Valley event for the electronic design automation (EDA) and semiconductor industry. Topics of current interest to the EIA IBIS Open Forum are addressed at DesignCon. This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations are expected to be available and archived in an electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the meeting. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Send to: Terry Roulic CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Format of Presentation: LCD Projection with Windows laptop. Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. Electronic presentations should be made available by June 18, 2003 for uploading and copying to the presentation laptop. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Lynne Green (lgreen@cadence.com) AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, breaks, and a luncheon (which will be provided). This will be developed as presentation proposals are received. The following individuals have signed up to present at the summit (presentation titles are tentative). * IBIS Status Update, Stephen Peters (Intel Corp) * Behavioral VHDL-AMS I/O buffer model using IBIS, Arpad Muranyi (Intel Corp) * Quality Committee Update, Barry Katz (SiSoft) LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS Please see for travel directions, hotels and other information. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:25:07 +0530 From: "Shripadaraj Annigeri" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] ibis simulation with spectre? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31B4E.2D01AEB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I have simila question. =20 How one compares with simulation of IBIS using traditional circuit simulator like hspice with SI simulators like spectraquest or XTK etc. Do SI simulators have any advantage as far as simulation of IBIS models (only). =20 =20 Regards, Shripad =20 A D Shripadaraj Wipro Technologies 72, Electronics City Bangalore 561 229 India Tel: +91-80-8520408 Extension: 4270 Mobile : 98450 19924 =20 =20 =20 - -----Original Message----- From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com] Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 7:14 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] ibis simulation with spectre? Is it possible to simulate IBIS models with spectre? This makes it easy to compare the model to the spectre simulations.=20 Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 **************************Disclaimer************************************ Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Wipro Limited is= =20 'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use, copying= =20 or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any manner=20 whatsoever is strictly prohibited. *************************************************************************** - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31B4E.2D01AEB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

Hi I=20 have simila question.
 
How=20 one compares with simulation of IBIS using traditional circuit simulator= like=20 hspice with SI simulators like spectraquest or XTK etc.  Do SI= simulators=20 have any advantage as far as simulation of IBIS models=20 (only).
 
 

Regards,

Shripad

 

A=20 D Shripadaraj

Wipro=20 Technologies

72,=20 Electronics City

Bangalore=20 561 229

India

Tel:=20 +91-80-8520408  Extension: 4270

Mobile=20 : 98450 19924

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 7:14 PM
To:=20 ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] ibis simulation with=20 spectre?


Is it= possible=20 to simulate IBIS models with spectre? This makes it easy to compare the= model=20 to the spectre simulations.



Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line= Networking=20 Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE=20 Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone:=20 +31-24-3534334
**************************Disclaimer***********************=
*************

Information contained in this E-MAIL being proprietary to Wipro Limited is=
=20
'privileged' and 'confidential' and intended for use only by the individual
 or entity to which it is addressed. You are notified that any use, copying=
=20
or dissemination of the information contained in the E-MAIL in any manner=20
whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

***************************************************************************
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31B4E.2D01AEB0-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:16:50 +0200 From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] ibis simulation with spectre? This is a multipart message in MIME format. - --=_alternative 0038A8D8C1256D28_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am very glad to hear that it's no problem to simulate IBIS models with Spectre, but although it sounds easy I still don't know what to do. To what tools and windows are refering? I assumed you meant the Cadence design environment, but I am not sure. In the library manager I don't see the button. Could you please give some more details? With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 Naftali.Refaeli@ecitele.com 05/15/03 04:06 PM To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 cc: Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] ibis simulation with spectre? Classification: No problem at all. Just tranlate the IBIS file to dml (Tranlate Botton at the bottom part of the Library Window). Notice to translate with no Errrs. Then click OK and select the IBIS device--> Pin_No or IBIS Model. _____________________________ Naftali Refaeli EDS-ECI Analog & High Speed Applications _/~~~\____/~\__/~\_____/~\_____ mailto:Naftali.Refaeli@ecitele.com Phone: +972-3-9266973 Fax: +972-3-9268188 erik.van.der.ven@ philips.com To: ibis-users@eda.org Sent by: cc: owner-ibis-users@ Subject: [IBIS-Users] ibis simulation with spectre? eda.org 15/05/2003 16:43 Is it possible to simulate IBIS models with spectre? This makes it easy to compare the model to the spectre simulations. Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 0038A8D8C1256D28_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I am very glad to hear that it's no problem to simulate IBIS models with Spectre, but although it sounds easy I still don't know what to do.
To what tools and windows are refering? I assumed you meant the Cadence design environment, but I am not sure. In the library manager I don't see the button. Could you please give some more details?

With kind regards,


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334







Naftali.Refaeli@ecitele.com

05/15/03 04:06 PM

       
        To:        Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
        cc:        
        Subject:        Re: [IBIS-Users] ibis simulation with spectre?

        Classification:        





No problem at all.
Just tranlate the IBIS file to dml (Tranlate Botton at the bottom part of
the Library Window). Notice to translate with no Errrs.
Then click OK and select the IBIS device--> Pin_No or IBIS Model.

_____________________________
Naftali Refaeli
EDS-ECI
Analog & High Speed Applications
_/~~~\____/~\__/~\_____/~\_____

mailto:Naftali.Refaeli@ecitele.com
Phone:  +972-3-9266973            Fax:  +972-3-9268188


                                                                                                                     
                     erik.van.der.ven@                                                                              
                     philips.com               To:      ibis-users@eda.org                                          
                     Sent by:                  cc:                                                                  
                     owner-ibis-users@         Subject: [IBIS-Users] ibis simulation with spectre?                  
                     eda.org                                                                                        
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
                     15/05/2003 16:43                                                                                
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     




Is it possible to simulate IBIS models with spectre? This makes it easy to
compare the model to the spectre simulations.



Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334

- --=_alternative 0038A8D8C1256D28_=-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:02:20 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: [IBIS-Users] tool-specific questions This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31BBC.2638E2E2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For detailed questions on specific tools, please contact the vendors directly. For Cadence (including Spectre and SPECCTRAQuest), support questions should be sent to support@cadence.com. =20 Cadence also maintains a public community web site at http://www.specctraquest.com. This site has generic information on IBIS and signal integrity, as well as tool-specific tips, and members can also post questions. You do not need to be a Cadence customer to access this site, although you do need to register to access some of the materials. This web site had about 80 hits on "IBIS" at last check. =20 Best regards, Lynne =20 PS: Spectre is a different product from SPECCTRAQuest, with different features and capabilities. The current release of Spectre does not support IBIS. =20 =20 Dr. Lynne Green Senior Member of Consulting Staff Cadence Design Systems, Inc. =20 =20 - -----Original Message----- From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com] Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 3:17 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] ibis simulation with spectre? I am very glad to hear that it's no problem to simulate IBIS models with Spectre, but although it sounds easy I still don't know what to do.=20 To what tools and windows are refering? I assumed you meant the Cadence design environment, but I am not sure. In the library manager I don't see the button. Could you please give some more details?=20 With kind regards,=20 Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334=20 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31BBC.2638E2E2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
For=20 detailed questions on specific tools, please contact the vendors = directly. =20 For Cadence (including Spectre and SPECCTRAQuest), support = questions=20 should be sent to support@cadence.com.
 
Cadence also maintains a public community web site at http://www.specctraquest.com.&n= bsp; This=20 site has generic information on IBIS and signal integrity, as well as=20 tool-specific tips, and members can also post questions.  You = do not=20 need to be a Cadence customer to access this site, although you do need = to=20 register to access some of the materials.  This web site had about = 80 hits=20 on "IBIS" at last check.
 
Best=20 regards,
Lynne
 
PS: Spectre is a different product from SPECCTRAQuest, = with=20 different features and capabilities.  The current release of = Spectre does=20 not support IBIS.
 
 
Dr. Lynne Green
Senior Member of Consulting Staff
Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: = erik.van.der.ven@philips.com=20 [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com]
Sent: Friday, May 16, = 2003 3:17=20 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] = ibis=20 simulation with spectre?


I=20 am very glad to hear that it's no problem to simulate IBIS models with = Spectre,=20 but although it sounds easy I still don't know what to do. =
To what tools and windows are refering? I = assumed you=20 meant the Cadence design environment, but I am not sure. In the library = manager=20 I don't see the button. Could you please give some more details?=20

With kind regards, =


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room = DB1032
Business Line=20 Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg = 2
6534 AE=20 Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334 =
=00 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31BBC.2638E2E2-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:07:43 -0700 From: "Peters, Stephen" Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Interconnect Modeling Specification (ICM Spec) now available for review This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31C08.566C4C80 Content-Type: text/plain Greetings: The final draft of the IBIS Interconnect Modeling Specification (ICM Spec) is now available for review by the IBIS Open Forum. A .pdf version of the draft specification can be found on the IBIS web site at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/connector/ The ICM specification establishes a standard method for representing interconnect modeling data for transfer between interconnect (connectors and/or package) design and simulation tools. In addition, to support of s-parameter descriptions of connectors and packages the IBIS futures group has also formally documented the Touchstone(r) data file format. A copy of the Touchstone specification is available at the above URL. Please address all ICM specification comments to Michael Mirmak (michael.mirmak@intel.com ) or Lynne Green (lgreen@cadence.com ). Address all comments on the Touchstone spec to Stephen Peters (stephen.peters@intel.com ). Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31C08.566C4C80 Content-Type: text/html Message
Greetings:
 
  The final draft of the IBIS Interconnect Modeling Specification (ICM Spec) is now available for review by the IBIS Open Forum.  A .pdf version of the draft specification can be found on the IBIS web site at:
 
 
  The ICM specification establishes a standard method for representing interconnect modeling data for transfer between interconnect (connectors and/or package) design and simulation tools. In addition, to support of s-parameter descriptions of connectors and packages the IBIS futures group has also formally documented the Touchstone(r) data file format. A copy of the Touchstone specification is available at the above URL.
 
Please address all ICM specification comments to Michael Mirmak (michael.mirmak@intel.com) or Lynne Green (lgreen@cadence.com).  Address all comments on the Touchstone spec to Stephen Peters (stephen.peters@intel.com).
 
Regards,
Stephen Peters
Intel Corp.
Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum
 
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31C08.566C4C80-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:19:43 +0200 From: Christophe Robichon Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS models generated by s2ibis Hello, I'm trying to generate IBIS model files with the S2IBIS free tool and i had few troubles which, i think, are well known! I want to generate a 3-state buffer model with an 2.5V typical use. In the IBIS output file, in the I/V pulldown curve i found two ranges : -2.5/5V and 0/5V? Also, some lines are duplicated like if output array was badly initialized or bigger than computed values? Thank's for your help Christophe - -- Christophe ROBICHON CAD Developments Engineer ATMEL NANTES S.A. Mailto:christophe.robichon@nto.atmel.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: 19 May 2003 09:49:21 -0700 From: Syed Huq Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS models generated by s2ibis The range of the output V/I curve is based on IBIS standard. Ex. PU(Pullup) and PD(Pulldown) curves are from -Vdd to +2Vdd etc The duplicate entry of data point is a known issue. Just delete them. The Parser 3.2.9 will tell you which lines are duplicated. Syed On Mon, 2003-05-19 at 00:19, Christophe Robichon wrote: > Hello, > > I'm trying to generate IBIS model files with the S2IBIS free tool and i > had few troubles which, i think, are well known! > > I want to generate a 3-state buffer model with an 2.5V typical use. In the > IBIS output file, in the I/V pulldown curve i found two ranges : -2.5/5V and > 0/5V? Also, some lines are duplicated like if output array was badly > initialized or bigger than computed values? > > Thank's for your help > > Christophe > |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:32:46 -0400 From: "Ingraham, Andrew" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Validating IBIS Inputs A well behaved driver with output impedance comparable to the transmission line's Zo, won't generate much if any overshoot. Try using a rail-to-rail voltage source and about a 10 ohm thevenin equivalent resistance, driving a 50 ohm transmission line to the receiver. It is a better signal source for exercising inputs. The delay of the transmission line sets the overshoot pulsewidth. Regards, Andy > I'm curious as to how other people validate an IBIS input buffer with a > ground clamp and power clamp curve to the original > SPICE netlist. If I run a simulation of a driver and receiver with a > transmission line, and then a driver with a transmission > line and a lumped capacitor load, I get almost the same result. (Assuming > a properly made IBIS file) The power and ground clamp > curves only turn on below Reference Ground or above supply voltage. So if > I have an input going into my input buffer that has overshoot > then should I see my powerclamp curve turn on? What types of tests do > people do to validate that the clamps are behaving as expected? > (And feel free to inform me on what the expected behavior of the clamps > should be) |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:49:29 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Final Call for Papers, IBIS Summit at DAC - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT FINAL CALL FOR PARTICIPATION & PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: Thursday June 5, 2003, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM Location: Anaheim Marriot Hotel 700 W. Convention Way Anaheim, CA Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: Cadence Design Systems If your company would be interested in helping to sponsor this event, please contact Lynne Green . Sponsors are needed for the lunch and coffee breaks. DAC: June 2-6, 2003 Anaheim Convention Center Anaheim, California See for more information. BACKGROUND DesignCon is the premier annual Silicon Valley event for the electronic design automation (EDA) and semiconductor industry. Topics of current interest to the EIA IBIS Open Forum are addressed at DAC. This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations are expected to be available and archived in an electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the meeting. The annual election of officers will be held. Nominations can be sent to Stephen Peters or made at the meeting. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Send to: Guy de Burgh at Mentor Graphics (guy_deburgh@mentor.com) CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Format of Presentation: LCD Projection with Windows laptop. Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. Electronic copies of presentations should be made available by May 30, 2003 for uploading and copying to the presentation laptop. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Also, please indicate if you are also interested in presenting this presentation at DesignCon East, Marlborough, MA, on June 23, 2003. Send this to: Lynne Green (lgreen@cadence.com) AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, breaks, and a luncheon (which will be provided). This will be developed as presentation proposals are received. The following individuals have signed up to present at the summit (presentation titles are tentative). * IBIS Status Update, Stephen Peters (Intel Corp) * Behavioral VHDL-AMS I/O buffer model using IBIS, Arpad Muranyi (Intel Corp) * Quality Committee Update, Kim Helliwell (Apple Computer) * ICM Status and Update, Michael Mirmak (Intel Corp.) * Modeling On-die Terminations, Arpad Muranyi (Intel Corp.) * IBIS 4.1 Status and Update, Lynne Green (Cadence Design Systems) LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS See for travel directions, hotels and other information. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:25:20 -0400 From: Timothy Coyle Subject: [IBIS-Users] Correlating Tco of IBIS to SPICE Hello, I am trying to correlate the rising Tco of IBIS file to original SPICE file. To obtain the rising waveform for IBIS, I applied a PWL source to the input, starting at time 0ns, and 300ps later reaching Vcc. (300ps is the slew rate of the device) Since this is a clocked output, I then apply a PWL to the clock input. So at about 1ns, I get my rising waveform. When I run the SPICE file into the standard load (Vref, Rref, Cref) and get the Tco number, it is 800ps, where the IBIS Tco is 1.53ns. I apply the same signal to both the SPICE and IBIS input, with no delay and rise/fall times of 300ps. So depending on how I set up my clock input, that is where my rising waveform will start, and hence my IBIS Tco number. Is it acceptable to get rid of leading zero's to match up IBIS to SPICE? Or should I be able to handle this with the way I set up my inputs? Regards, Tim |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:02:26 -0400 From: "Douglas Burns" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Correlating Tco of IBIS to SPICE Tim, IBIS contains no delay information, thus you can't compare them directly with spice. Also, the spice file may not contain the full logic path delay and it's output delay may not be the same as the spec'ed Tco. What you really care about is that the waveforms overlay each other (when properly shifted) when they drive the same load. For Timing analysis purposes, you would then run a simulation of the IBIS into the standard load and a second simulation of the IBIS into the actual load. You can then subtract the delay from stimulus to response of the standard load simulation from the stimulus to response of the actual load. The resulting data is the delay the actual load has on the network with respect to the standard load. You then add the Tco value (delay into standard load) to this computed value (delay of actual network with respect to the standard load) to calculate the actual delay of the full network. Doug Douglas Burns Chief Consultant Signal Integrity Software Inc. 6 Clock Tower Place Maynard, MA 01754 978-461-0449 x14 www.sisoft.com dburns@sisoft.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of Timothy Coyle Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 11:25 AM To: IBIS List Subject: [IBIS-Users] Correlating Tco of IBIS to SPICE Hello, I am trying to correlate the rising Tco of IBIS file to original SPICE file. To obtain the rising waveform for IBIS, I applied a PWL source to the input, starting at time 0ns, and 300ps later reaching Vcc. (300ps is the slew rate of the device) Since this is a clocked output, I then apply a PWL to the clock input. So at about 1ns, I get my rising waveform. When I run the SPICE file into the standard load (Vref, Rref, Cref) and get the Tco number, it is 800ps, where the IBIS Tco is 1.53ns. I apply the same signal to both the SPICE and IBIS input, with no delay and rise/fall times of 300ps. So depending on how I set up my clock input, that is where my rising waveform will start, and hence my IBIS Tco number. Is it acceptable to get rid of leading zero's to match up IBIS to SPICE? Or should I be able to handle this with the way I set up my inputs? Regards, Tim |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 06:29:34 +0300 From: VALERY NEIMAN Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS version 4.0 - --------------6EC0AEC7194DFAB2E3A890D1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Stll I generate IBIS model according to IBIS spec ver3.2 with ibischk3 parser Does anybody have parser for IBIS ver4.0. Regards, Valery - -- - ------------------------------- mailto:ValeryNeiman@motorola.com Tel :(972) 9-9522784 Fax :(972) 9-9522888 Motorola Semiconductor Israel Ltd. - ------------------------------- - --------------6EC0AEC7194DFAB2E3A890D1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Hello, Stll I generate IBIS model according
to IBIS spec ver3.2 with ibischk3 parser
Does anybody have parser for IBIS ver4.0.

Regards, Valery
-- 
- -------------------------------
mailto:ValeryNeiman@motorola.com
Tel   :(972) 9-9522784
Fax   :(972) 9-9522888
Motorola Semiconductor Israel Ltd.
- -------------------------------
  - --------------6EC0AEC7194DFAB2E3A890D1-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:39:49 -0700 (PDT) From: sk Subject: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated buffer modeling Hi all, Does anyone has experience modeling a LVDS input buffer with on-die differential termination? Can someone shed me some light here? Best Regards __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 12:56:07 +0200 From: "Henrik G. Madsen" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated buffer modeling Hi If you have the SPICE model for the LVDS cell, you can remove the build-in termination and model the LVDS input as normal. Then afterwards, you can model the termination alone and add it to the IBIS file using the 'Series' model type. Remember to add the termination pin info through the [Series Pin Mapping] keyword I have tried to illustrate the final IBIS model below. You have to be aware that certain IBIS tool still do not support the below approach fully. Regards /Henrik G Madsen Example ....... | [Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin | pin1 LVDS_p LVDS_model pin2 LVDS_n LVDS_model | [Diff pin] inv_pin vdiff tdelay_typ tdelay_min tdelay_max | pin1 pin2 NA NA NA NA | [Series Pin Mapping] pin_2 model_name function_table_group | pin1 pin2 term_model | |************************************************************************ [Model] term_model Model_type Series C_comp 0pF 0pF 0pF | [Temperature Range] 55.000 120.00 0.0000 [Voltage Range] 2.500V 2.300V 2.700V | |variable R(typ) R(min) R(max) [R Series] 100 120 80 | | [Model] LVDS_model Model_type I/O Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-Low ........ - -----Original Message----- From: sk [mailto:wsk78@yahoo.com] Sent: 22. maj 2003 09:40 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated buffer modeling Hi all, Does anyone has experience modeling a LVDS input buffer with on-die differential termination? Can someone shed me some light here? Best Regards __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:52:32 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS version 4.0 Hello, Valery, The IBIS parser is expected to be completed some time in Q3 (June-August). - - Lynne Green Cadence Design Systems IBIS Vice-Chair - -----Original Message----- From: VALERY NEIMAN [mailto:R57471@email.sps.mot.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 8:30 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Cc: john_angulo@mentorg.com Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS version 4.0 Hello, Stll I generate IBIS model according to IBIS spec ver3.2 with ibischk3 parser Does anybody have parser for IBIS ver4.0. Regards, Valery - -- - ------------------------------- mailto:ValeryNeiman@motorola.com Tel :(972) 9-9522784 Fax :(972) 9-9522888 Motorola Semiconductor Israel Ltd. - ------------------------------- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 18:15:44 -0700 (PDT) From: sk Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated buffer modeling Henrik, Thanks for the reply. I just found out that the tool that I'm using does not support the series keywords. So does anyone has a workaround for this? Much Appreciated, sk - --- "Henrik G. Madsen" wrote: > Hi > > If you have the SPICE model for the LVDS cell, you > can remove the build-in termination and model the > LVDS input as normal. > Then afterwards, you can model the termination alone > and add it to the IBIS file using the 'Series' model > type. > Remember to add the termination pin info through the > [Series Pin Mapping] keyword > > I have tried to illustrate the final IBIS model > below. > > You have to be aware that certain IBIS tool still do > not support the below approach fully. > > Regards > /Henrik G Madsen > > Example > ....... > | > [Pin] signal_name model_name > R_pin L_pin C_pin > | > pin1 LVDS_p LVDS_model > pin2 LVDS_n LVDS_model > | > [Diff pin] inv_pin vdiff tdelay_typ tdelay_min > tdelay_max > | > pin1 pin2 NA NA NA NA > | > [Series Pin Mapping] pin_2 model_name > function_table_group > | > pin1 pin2 term_model > | > |************************************************************************ > [Model] term_model > Model_type Series > C_comp 0pF 0pF > 0pF > | > [Temperature Range] 55.000 120.00 > 0.0000 > [Voltage Range] 2.500V 2.300V > 2.700V > | > |variable R(typ) R(min) R(max) > [R Series] 100 120 80 > | > | > [Model] LVDS_model > Model_type I/O > Polarity Non-Inverting > Enable Active-Low > ........ > > -----Original Message----- > From: sk [mailto:wsk78@yahoo.com] > Sent: 22. maj 2003 09:40 > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated > buffer modeling > > > Hi all, > > Does anyone has experience modeling a LVDS input > buffer with on-die differential termination? > > Can someone shed me some light here? > > Best Regards > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email > majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the > body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis if different> > | subscribe ibis-users if different> > | unsubscribe ibis if different> > | unsubscribe ibis-users if different> > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ > Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ > Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ > E-mail since 1993 > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:37:41 +0200 From: "Henrik G. Madsen" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated buffer modeling Sk, One solution could be to do the plain IBIS model for the LVDS input without termination, and then adding the termination as a discrete resistor in the simulation circuit. The external termination resistor should of cause have the same properties as the 'deleted' internal. Regards Henrik G Madsen - -----Original Message----- From: sk [mailto:wsk78@yahoo.com] Sent: 23. maj 2003 03:16 To: Henrik G. Madsen; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated buffer modeling Henrik, Thanks for the reply. I just found out that the tool that I'm using does not support the series keywords. So does anyone has a workaround for this? Much Appreciated, sk - --- "Henrik G. Madsen" wrote: > Hi > > If you have the SPICE model for the LVDS cell, you > can remove the build-in termination and model the > LVDS input as normal. > Then afterwards, you can model the termination alone > and add it to the IBIS file using the 'Series' model > type. > Remember to add the termination pin info through the > [Series Pin Mapping] keyword > > I have tried to illustrate the final IBIS model > below. > > You have to be aware that certain IBIS tool still do > not support the below approach fully. > > Regards > /Henrik G Madsen > > Example > ....... > | > [Pin] signal_name model_name > R_pin L_pin C_pin > | > pin1 LVDS_p LVDS_model > pin2 LVDS_n LVDS_model > | > [Diff pin] inv_pin vdiff tdelay_typ tdelay_min > tdelay_max > | > pin1 pin2 NA NA NA NA > | > [Series Pin Mapping] pin_2 model_name > function_table_group > | > pin1 pin2 term_model > | > |************************************************************************ > [Model] term_model > Model_type Series > C_comp 0pF 0pF > 0pF > | > [Temperature Range] 55.000 120.00 > 0.0000 > [Voltage Range] 2.500V 2.300V > 2.700V > | > |variable R(typ) R(min) R(max) > [R Series] 100 120 80 > | > | > [Model] LVDS_model > Model_type I/O > Polarity Non-Inverting > Enable Active-Low > ........ > > -----Original Message----- > From: sk [mailto:wsk78@yahoo.com] > Sent: 22. maj 2003 09:40 > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated > buffer modeling > > > Hi all, > > Does anyone has experience modeling a LVDS input > buffer with on-die differential termination? > > Can someone shed me some light here? > > Best Regards > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email > majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the > body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis if different> > | subscribe ibis-users if different> > | unsubscribe ibis if different> > | unsubscribe ibis-users if different> > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ > Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ > Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ > E-mail since 1993 > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:06:30 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated buffer modeling Hi, Sk, Using an external resistor puts it outside of the package parasitics (at the package's external pins). This would produce different simulation results compared to modeling the termination on-die. You could try building an IBIS Package Model, with the on-die termination connected at the die pads. Regards, Lynne Dr. Lynne Green Senior Member of Consulting Staff Cadence Design Systems, Inc. - -----Original Message----- From: Henrik G. Madsen [mailto:hgm@vitesse.com] Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 11:38 PM To: sk; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated buffer modeling Sk, One solution could be to do the plain IBIS model for the LVDS input without termination, and then adding the termination as a discrete resistor in the simulation circuit. The external termination resistor should of cause have the same properties as the 'deleted' internal. Regards Henrik G Madsen - -----Original Message----- From: sk [mailto:wsk78@yahoo.com] Sent: 23. maj 2003 03:16 To: Henrik G. Madsen; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated buffer modeling Henrik, Thanks for the reply. I just found out that the tool that I'm using does not support the series keywords. So does anyone has a workaround for this? Much Appreciated, sk - --- "Henrik G. Madsen" wrote: > Hi > > If you have the SPICE model for the LVDS cell, you > can remove the build-in termination and model the > LVDS input as normal. > Then afterwards, you can model the termination alone > and add it to the IBIS file using the 'Series' model > type. > Remember to add the termination pin info through the > [Series Pin Mapping] keyword > > I have tried to illustrate the final IBIS model > below. > > You have to be aware that certain IBIS tool still do > not support the below approach fully. > > Regards > /Henrik G Madsen > > Example > ....... > | > [Pin] signal_name model_name > R_pin L_pin C_pin > | > pin1 LVDS_p LVDS_model > pin2 LVDS_n LVDS_model > | > [Diff pin] inv_pin vdiff tdelay_typ tdelay_min > tdelay_max > | > pin1 pin2 NA NA NA NA > | > [Series Pin Mapping] pin_2 model_name > function_table_group > | > pin1 pin2 term_model > | > |*********************************************************************** |* > [Model] term_model > Model_type Series > C_comp 0pF 0pF > 0pF > | > [Temperature Range] 55.000 120.00 > 0.0000 > [Voltage Range] 2.500V 2.300V > 2.700V > | > |variable R(typ) R(min) R(max) > [R Series] 100 120 80 > | > | > [Model] LVDS_model > Model_type I/O > Polarity Non-Inverting > Enable Active-Low > ........ > > -----Original Message----- > From: sk [mailto:wsk78@yahoo.com] > Sent: 22. maj 2003 09:40 > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] On-die DIFFERENTIAL terminated > buffer modeling > > > Hi all, > > Does anyone has experience modeling a LVDS input > buffer with on-die differential termination? > > Can someone shed me some light here? > > Best Regards > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:09:17 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Agenda for IBIS Open Forum, May 30, 2003 IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 5/30/03 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 1-916-356-2663 1 2873560 (International Dial-In: 1-617-801-9781) All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Stephen Peters and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Peters - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Peters - Call for Patents Peters - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Peters - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Peters - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Leventhal, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuits Electromagnetic Model Proposal (IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) Perrin/Peters - JEDEC Committee Report Green DAC2003 Meeting Planning Peters - Election of Officers DesignCon2003 East Meeting Planning Peters IBIS Version 4.0 Parser Funding and Status Peters IBIS Version 4.1 Discussion Peters/Ross IBIS Quality Committee Report Katz IBIS Model Review Committee Green New Administrative Issues All 8:45 Technical Discussion IBIS Futures Committee Report Peters/Green IBIS ICM Specification Review Mirmak BIRD74.3 - EMI Parameters de Burgh IBISCHK3 Status Ross - BUG73 Fix New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Peters 9:55 Sign Off |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:14:02 -0700 From: Kannan Srinivasagam Subject: [IBIS-Users] Error while using s2ibis2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------FD4B72A4697868D6835E465C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Could anyone tell me why I am getting the following error during my s2ibis2 Input model run : ERROR : Difficulty in Reading input I am not sure what I am doing wrong. Thanks Kannan Srinivasagam Cypress Semiconductor - --------------FD4B72A4697868D6835E465C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="pks.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Kannan Srinivasagam Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pks.vcf" begin:vcard n:Srinivasagam;P Kannan tel;fax:408-943-4724 tel;work:408-943-6817 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Cypress Semiconductor;MPD/MTI New Product Development version:2.1 email;internet:pks@cypress.com title:Senior Application Engineer adr;quoted-printable:;;3901 North First Street=0D=0ASan Jose,CA 95134;;;; fn:Kannan Srinivasagam end:vcard - --------------FD4B72A4697868D6835E465C-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 22:14:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Syed Huq Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Error while using s2ibis2 Are you able to run the example .s2i file that comes with s2ibis2 ? Which OS binary are you running ? If the example runs then something is wrong with your .s2i...possibly.. Syed >Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:14:02 -0700 >From: Kannan Srinivasagam >X-Accept-Language: en >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: "ibis-users@eda.org" >CC: aju@cypress.com >Subject: [IBIS-Users] Error while using s2ibis2 > >Hi, > Could anyone tell me why I am getting the following error during my >s2ibis2 Input model run : >ERROR : Difficulty in Reading input > >I am not sure what I am doing wrong. > >Thanks >Kannan Srinivasagam >Cypress Semiconductor |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 13:46:59 -0400 From: "Ingraham, Andrew" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Error while using s2ibis2 I have seen that message ("ERROR: Difficulty in Reading Input") from HSpice on various occasions. It probably means there is something wrong in the SPICE input file and it can't work its way around it. Sometimes it is as simple as a missing line or an extra line that shouldn't be there. Does the SPICE model run OK outside of s2ibis2? Try examining the output from s2ibis2 (input to HSpice) for errors. Regards, Andy > Could anyone tell me why I am getting the following error during my > s2ibis2 Input model run : > ERROR : Difficulty in Reading input |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:37:13 -0700 From: "Frank Dunlap" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Error while using s2ibis2 Sometimes it's a missing or extra ".end" . - -----Original Message----- From: Ingraham, Andrew [mailto:a.ingraham@ieee.org] Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:47 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Error while using s2ibis2 I have seen that message ("ERROR: Difficulty in Reading Input") from HSpice on various occasions. It probably means there is something wrong in the SPICE input file and it can't work its way around it. Sometimes it is as simple as a missing line or an extra line that shouldn't be there. Does the SPICE model run OK outside of s2ibis2? Try examining the output from s2ibis2 (input to HSpice) for errors. Regards, Andy > Could anyone tell me why I am getting the following error during my > s2ibis2 Input model run : > ERROR : Difficulty in Reading input |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 08:35:02 +0200 From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Error while using s2ibis2 - --=_mixed 00245B22C1256D32_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00245B22C1256D32_=" - --=_alternative 00245B22C1256D32_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Kannan, Are you using a stand alone PC or are you working on a terminal network, with remote servers? I had problems before with s2ibis: it could not read the files that were created with the spectre simulator (these simulations are done by s2ibis). This was caused by the fact that s2ibis and spectre were running on different servers. The workaround was to open a new window and explicitely select a compute server for that window and then start working. I am not sure if your problem relates to this, but perhaps it helps. With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 Kannan Srinivasagam Sent by: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org 05/23/03 08:14 PM To: "ibis-users@eda.org" cc: aju@cypress.com (bcc: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS) Subject: [IBIS-Users] Error while using s2ibis2 Classification: Hi, Could anyone tell me why I am getting the following error during my s2ibis2 Input model run : ERROR : Difficulty in Reading input I am not sure what I am doing wrong. Thanks Kannan Srinivasagam Cypress Semiconductor - --=_alternative 00245B22C1256D32_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Kannan,

Are you using a stand alone PC or are you working on a terminal network, with remote servers?
I had problems before with s2ibis: it could not read the files that were created with the spectre simulator (these simulations are done by s2ibis). This was caused by the fact that s2ibis and spectre were running on different servers. The workaround was to open a new window and explicitely select a compute server for that window and then start working. I am not sure if your problem relates to this, but perhaps it helps.

With kind regards,


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334







Kannan Srinivasagam <pks@cypress.com>

Sent by:
owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org

05/23/03 08:14 PM

       
        To:        "ibis-users@eda.org" <ibis-users@server.eda.org>
        cc:        aju@cypress.com
(bcc: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS)
        Subject:        [IBIS-Users] Error while using s2ibis2

        Classification:        




Hi,
   Could anyone tell me why I am getting the following error during my
s2ibis2 Input model run :
ERROR : Difficulty in Reading input

I am not sure what I am doing wrong.

Thanks
Kannan Srinivasagam
Cypress Semiconductor

- --=_alternative 00245B22C1256D32_=-- - --=_mixed 00245B22C1256D32_= Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pks.vcf" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pks.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 YmVnaW46dmNhcmQgDQpuOlNyaW5pdmFzYWdhbTtQIEthbm5hbiANCnRlbDtmYXg6NDA4LTk0My00 NzI0DQp0ZWw7d29yazo0MDgtOTQzLTY4MTcNCngtbW96aWxsYS1odG1sOkZBTFNFDQpvcmc6Q3lw cmVzcyBTZW1pY29uZHVjdG9yO01QRC9NVEkgTmV3IFByb2R1Y3QgRGV2ZWxvcG1lbnQNCnZlcnNp b246Mi4xDQplbWFpbDtpbnRlcm5ldDpwa3NAY3lwcmVzcy5jb20NCnRpdGxlOlNlbmlvciBBcHBs aWNhdGlvbiBFbmdpbmVlcg0KYWRyO3F1b3RlZC1wcmludGFibGU6OzszOTAxIE5vcnRoIEZpcnN0 IFN0cmVldD0wRD0wQVNhbiBKb3NlLENBIDk1MTM0Ozs7Ow0KZm46S2FubmFuIFNyaW5pdmFzYWdh bQ0KZW5kOnZjYXJkDQo= - --=_mixed 00245B22C1256D32_=-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:06:22 -0500 From: "Haque, Moshiul" Subject: [IBIS-Users] FET Switch Model with internal pulldown resistor I am trying to create an IBIS model for a parallel n-channel/p-channel mosfet switch. At the high impedance state (i.e. OFF state) drain side of the switch is connected to ground through a 500 ohm pulldown resistor. I am not sure how to model this pulldown resistor since this is connected only in the high-impedance state. If I model it in high impedance state the simulator will combine this characteristics with the ON state of the switch and the result will be inaccurate. Any idea how to create the model? Regards Moshiul Haque Standard Linear and Logic Marketing Texas Instruments Incorporated Ph: (903) 868-7153 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:42:53 +0200 From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Subject: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms This is a multipart message in MIME format. - --=_alternative 004B871FC1256D33_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear IBIS users, It is possible to specify more than one waveform table, for instance with different loads. I have studied many IBIS models by semiconductor companies. All models I have seen give only one waveform (both rising and falling). What is the purpose of specifying more than one waveform? Does this yield better results in the simulator if the load differs from the standard load? With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 004B871FC1256D33_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Dear IBIS users,

It is possible to specify more than one waveform table, for instance with different loads.
I have studied many IBIS models by semiconductor companies. All models I have seen give only one waveform (both rising and falling).
What is the purpose of specifying more than one waveform? Does this yield better results in the simulator if the load differs from the standard load?

With kind regards,


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 004B871FC1256D33_=-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:22:32 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3246C.2CAA5858 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Erik, =20 I am only aware of two tools which can use more than one waveform per edge (or more than 4 per CMOS buffer). This is probably the reason most IBIS models do not contain more waveforms. =20 The reason the IBIS specification allows for more is accuracy. It is generally true that the V_fixture R_fixture combination of an IBIS model will reproduce the most accurate results when the buffer is used with the same load in the simulation. In case the model is used in environments where the load impedance has a wide range, it would be better if the model could also use waveform tables which were made under similar conditions. =20 Now that I am studying the algorithms in order to be=20 able to write VHDL-AMS IBIS models, I am discovering a lot of interesting numeric details which I wasn't aware of before, however, it would be to difficult to explain all of them here. You can expect to see a presentation by me and Luca Giacotto on this subject in the upcoming IBIS summit. =20 Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - -----Original Message----- From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 6:43 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms Dear IBIS users,=20 It is possible to specify more than one waveform table, for instance = with different loads.=20 I have studied many IBIS models by semiconductor companies. All models I = have seen give only one waveform (both rising and falling).=20 What is the purpose of specifying more than one waveform? Does this = yield better results in the simulator if the load differs from the = standard load?=20 With kind regards,=20 Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3246C.2CAA5858 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Erik,
 
I am only=20 aware of two tools which can use more than
one waveform=20 per edge (or more than 4 per CMOS buffer).
This is=20 probably the reason most IBIS models do not
contain more=20 waveforms.
 
The reason=20 the IBIS specification allows for more is
accuracy.  It is generally true that the=20 V_fixture
R_fixture=20 combination of an IBIS model will reproduce
the most=20 accurate results when the buffer is used=20 with
the same=20 load in the simulation.  In case the model=20 is
used in=20 environments where the load impedance has=20 a
wide range,=20 it would be better if the model could also
use=20 waveform tables which were made under similar
conditions.
 
Now=20 that I am studying the algorithms in order to be =
able=20 to write VHDL-AMS IBIS models, I am = discovering
a lot=20 of interesting numeric details which I wasn't
aware=20 of before, however, it would be to difficult = to
explain all = of them=20 here.  You can expect to see a
presentation by me and Luca Giacotto=20 on this subject
in the=20 upcoming IBIS summit.
 
Arpad=20 Muranyi
Intel=20 Corporation
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 erik.van.der.ven@philips.com=20 [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, = 2003 6:43=20 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] = number of=20 waveforms

Dear IBIS = users,

It is possible to = specify=20 more than one waveform table, for instance with different loads.=20
I have studied many IBIS models by=20 semiconductor companies. All models I have seen give only one waveform = (both=20 rising and falling).
What is = the purpose=20 of specifying more than one waveform? Does this yield better results in = the=20 simulator if the load differs from the standard load? =

With kind regards,


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line = Networking=20 Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE=20 Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: = +31-24-3534334 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3246C.2CAA5858-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:30:02 -0700 From: Bob Ross Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] FET Switch Model with internal pulldown resistor Hello Moshiul: Unfortunately, IBIS does not handle this case directly since the [Submodel] keyword modes are Driving and Non-Driving and do not apply to switch states. Here are some suggested work-around solutions that may work in some applications. 1. Use [Model Selector] to switch in a 500 ohm terminator. It must be switched in manually when the Series_switch is in the Off state. This might be the most efficient method if the switch control turns off several switches simultaneously. However, the user must control both the switch setting and model selector modes. 2. Issue two models, and do not allow the switch to have an Off state. Document the second model with a 500 ohm terminator at the drain side, and a high Z-model terminator on the other side (and an [R Series] with 1 G ohm series element to maintain connectivity). Load this model in place of the switch model when the high-Z state is used. Since all pinout configurations have to be documented, this may not work well with swich ICs with many switches and multiple On/Off combinations. 3. Some EDA tools may work if a Series_switch model has a high-Z state, and a terminator model is added to this manually or through EDA-specific commands and interfaces. All suggestions require the user (or a separate set of scripts) to control the settings manually. Bob. Haque, Moshiul wrote: >I am trying to create an IBIS model for a parallel n-channel/p-channel >mosfet switch. At the high impedance state (i.e. OFF state) drain side of >the switch is connected to ground through a 500 ohm pulldown resistor. I am >not sure how to model this pulldown resistor since this is connected only in >the high-impedance state. If I model it in high impedance state the >simulator will combine this characteristics with the ON state of the switch >and the result will be inaccurate. > >Any idea how to create the model? > >Regards >Moshiul Haque >Standard Linear and Logic Marketing >Texas Instruments Incorporated >Ph: (903) 868-7153 > > > - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane 503-239-5536 Beaverton, OR 97008 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065 bob@teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:38:31 -0700 From: "Tom Dagostino" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_02D8_01C32433.BD247140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anything is possible but whether it gets used is the important issue. IBIS allows up to 100 different waveform tables in a model statement. Usually there will be two rising and two falling waveforms for a given load resistance. One rise to ground and one rise to Vcc plus one fall to ground and one fall with the resistor terminated to Vcc. You can use several different load resistors and terminate to different voltages as long as you keep the number of waveform tables to under 100. But many simulators will not know what to do with all the waveforms. Some will just look at the first 4 waveform tables and ignore the rest. Tom Dagostino Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065 tom@teraspeed.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 6:43 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms Dear IBIS users, It is possible to specify more than one waveform table, for instance with different loads. I have studied many IBIS models by semiconductor companies. All models I have seen give only one waveform (both rising and falling). What is the purpose of specifying more than one waveform? Does this yield better results in the simulator if the load differs from the standard load? With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - ------=_NextPart_000_02D8_01C32433.BD247140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anything is possible but whether it gets used is the important=20 issue.  IBIS allows up to 100 different waveform tables in a model=20 statement.  Usually there will be two rising and two falling = waveforms for=20 a given load resistance.  One rise to ground and one rise to Vcc = plus one=20 fall to ground and one fall with the resistor terminated to Vcc.  = You can=20 use several different load resistors  and terminate to different = voltages=20 as long as you keep the number of waveform tables to under 100.  = But many=20 simulators will not know what to do with all the waveforms.  Some = will just=20 look at the first 4 waveform tables and ignore the = rest.
 

Tom=20 Dagostino

Teraspeed=20 Consulting Group LLC   =20  Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC

2926 SE=20 Yamhill St.            &n= bsp;   Device=20 Modeling Division

Portland,=20 OR 97214            &n= bsp;    13610=20 SW Harness Lane

           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;          =20 Beaverton, OR 97008

http://www.teraspeed.com           503-430-1065

tom@teraspeed.com=20
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org = [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org]On=20 Behalf Of erik.van.der.ven@philips.com
Sent: Tuesday, = May 27,=20 2003 6:43 AM
To: = ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject:=20 [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms


Dear IBIS users,

It is=20 possible to specify more than one waveform table, for instance with = different=20 loads.
I have studied many = IBIS models=20 by semiconductor companies. All models I have seen give only one = waveform=20 (both rising and falling).
What is the=20 purpose of specifying more than one waveform? Does this yield better = results=20 in the simulator if the load differs from the standard load?=20

With kind regards, =


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room = DB1032
Business=20 Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors = BV
Gerstweg=20 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone:=20 +31-24-3534334
- ------=_NextPart_000_02D8_01C32433.BD247140-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:15:26 +0200 From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms This is a multipart message in MIME format. - --=_alternative 002D8C1AC1256D34_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Lynne, Thank you for your reply. I am trying to model a PECL output buffer. So the output is normally terminated with 50 Ohm to Vcc-2V. I am wondering how accurate the simulations are with an IBIS simulator if the load differs from the reference load. Will the accuracy incease if I add a second waveform set with different load, or to another termination voltage? Will the simulator produce a more acurate behavior model if I provide a second waveform set, or does it use the waveform table that is most close to the load to be simulated? With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 "Lynne Green" 05/27/03 06:33 PM To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 cc: Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms Classification: Hi, Erik- The typical recommendation is 4 waveforms tables at the same load (rising to Vcc, rising to GND, falling to Vcc, falling to GND). That captures how the pullup and pulldown transistors turn on and off, so tables at additional loads are not needed. Additional waveform tables are permitted (up to 100 according to the IBIS spec). But the more tables you use, the slower a simulator will run. - - Lynne - -----Original Message----- From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 6:43 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms Dear IBIS users, It is possible to specify more than one waveform table, for instance with different loads. I have studied many IBIS models by semiconductor companies. All models I have seen give only one waveform (both rising and falling). What is the purpose of specifying more than one waveform? Does this yield better results in the simulator if the load differs from the standard load? With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 002D8C1AC1256D34_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Lynne,

Thank you for your reply.
I am trying to model a PECL output buffer.
So the output is normally terminated with 50 Ohm to Vcc-2V.
I am wondering how accurate the simulations are with an IBIS simulator if the load differs from the reference load.
Will the accuracy incease if I add a second waveform set with different load, or to another termination voltage?
Will the simulator produce a more acurate behavior model if I provide a second waveform set, or does it use the waveform table that is most close to the load to be simulated?

With kind regards,


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334







"Lynne Green" <lgreen@cadence.com>

05/27/03 06:33 PM

       
        To:        Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
        cc:        
        Subject:        RE: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms

        Classification:        




Hi, Erik-
 
The typical recommendation is 4 waveforms tables at the same load (rising to Vcc, rising to GND, falling to Vcc, falling to GND).  That captures how the pullup and pulldown transistors turn on and off, so tables at additional loads are not needed.
 
Additional waveform tables are permitted (up to 100 according to the IBIS spec).  But the more tables you use, the slower a simulator will run.
 
- Lynne
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 6:43 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms

Dear IBIS users,

It is possible to specify more than one waveform table, for instance with different loads.
I have studied many IBIS models by semiconductor companies. All models I have seen give only one waveform (both rising and falling).
What is the purpose of specifying more than one waveform? Does this yield better results in the simulator if the load differs from the standard load?

With kind regards,


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334

- --=_alternative 002D8C1AC1256D34_=-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:27:53 -0500 From: John Phillippe Subject: [IBIS-Users] Measurement deratings? Hello, I am wondering how people match their IBIS simulations to silicon measurements. I read through the spec, and didn't see anything that looked like a derating type construct. So it is my understanding that when someone takes lab measurements of an I/O buffer, those data points are directly inserted into the ibis file, replacing the simulated data. Does this sound correct? Is there another way, to get simulations to more closely match measurements? - -- John Phillippe SPS, 32 Bit Embedded Controller Division, IC Creation Motorola - 512-895-1835 Austin, TX - john.phillippe@motorola.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:47:37 -0400 From: Timothy Coyle Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Measurement deratings? John Phillippe wrote: > > Hello, > I am wondering how people match their IBIS simulations to silicon > measurements. I read through the spec, and didn't see anything that > looked like a derating type construct. So it is my understanding that > when someone takes lab measurements of an I/O buffer, those data points > are directly inserted into the ibis file, replacing the simulated data. > Does this sound correct? Is there another way, to get simulations to > more closely match measurements? > > -- > John Phillippe > SPS, 32 Bit Embedded Controller Division, IC Creation > Motorola - 512-895-1835 > Austin, TX - john.phillippe@motorola.com > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org > |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: > | > | help > | subscribe ibis > | subscribe ibis-users > | unsubscribe ibis > | unsubscribe ibis-users > | > |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. > | > |IBIS reflector archives exist under: > | > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent > | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 Hi John, Not sure if you are talking about transmission line simulations or just the IBIS data itself, but here is my 2 cents. If your IBIS file was created from SPICE models, the real correlation should be between your SPICE simulations and real silicon. A good methodology might be to correlate your SPICE models to silicon, then translate your SPICE models to IBIS, and correlate your IBIS file to your SPICE model. If your SPICE models do not correlate well to silicon, you could extract IBIS data from the bench and insert into your IBIS file. This should make your IBIS file correlate better to silicon. It will be more difficult to get your min and max data from the lab than from simulation. Regards, Tim |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:55:00 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C32542.424CB2DF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Erik, =20 The Vref values should be the MIN and MAX signal swing range (Vcc and 0 for CMOS). Rref should be the standard load (50 Ohms for PECL). =20 =20 The 4 tables (2 rising, 2 falling) are sufficient to define the (time-dependent) fitting coefficients that are commonly used to characterize transitions. =20 Different simulators might do different things with additional tables. SPECCTRAQuest uses all available tables. =20 Best regards, Lynne =20 =20 - -----Original Message----- From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:15 AM To: Lynne Green; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms Dear Lynne,=20 Thank you for your reply.=20 I am trying to model a PECL output buffer.=20 So the output is normally terminated with 50 Ohm to Vcc-2V.=20 I am wondering how accurate the simulations are with an IBIS simulator if the load differs from the reference load.=20 Will the accuracy incease if I add a second waveform set with different load, or to another termination voltage?=20 Will the simulator produce a more acurate behavior model if I provide a second waveform set, or does it use the waveform table that is most close to the load to be simulated?=20 With kind regards,=20 Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334=20 =09 "Lynne Green" =20 05/27/03 06:33 PM=20 =20 To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2=20 cc: =20 Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms=20 Classification: =20 Hi, Erik-=20 =20 The typical recommendation is 4 waveforms tables at the same load (rising to Vcc, rising to GND, falling to Vcc, falling to GND). That captures how the pullup and pulldown transistors turn on and off, so tables at additional loads are not needed.=20 =20 Additional waveform tables are permitted (up to 100 according to the IBIS spec). But the more tables you use, the slower a simulator will run.=20 =20 - - Lynne=20 =20 =20 - -----Original Message----- From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 6:43 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms Dear IBIS users,=20 It is possible to specify more than one waveform table, for instance with different loads.=20 I have studied many IBIS models by semiconductor companies. All models I have seen give only one waveform (both rising and falling).=20 What is the purpose of specifying more than one waveform? Does this yield better results in the simulator if the load differs from the standard load?=20 With kind regards,=20 Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334=20 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C32542.424CB2DF Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hi,=20 Erik,
 
The=20 Vref values should be the MIN and MAX signal swing range (Vcc and 0 for=20 CMOS).  Rref should be the standard load (50 Ohms for = PECL). =20
 
The 4=20 tables (2 rising, 2 falling) are sufficient to define = the (time-dependent)=20 fitting coefficients that are commonly used to=20 characterize transitions.
 
Different simulators might do different things with additional=20 tables.  SPECCTRAQuest uses all available = tables.
 
Best=20 regards,
Lynne
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: = erik.van.der.ven@philips.com=20 [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May = 28, 2003=20 1:15 AM
To: Lynne Green; ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: = RE:=20 [IBIS-Users] number of waveforms


Dear Lynne,

Thank you for=20 your reply.
I am trying to = model a PECL=20 output buffer.
So the output = is normally=20 terminated with 50 Ohm to Vcc-2V.
I am=20 wondering how accurate the simulations are with an IBIS simulator if the = load=20 differs from the reference load.
Will=20 the accuracy incease if I add a second waveform set with different load, = or to=20 another termination voltage?
Will the=20 simulator produce a more acurate behavior model if I provide a second = waveform=20 set, or does it use the waveform table that is most close to the load to = be=20 simulated?

With kind = regards,=20


Ir. Erik van der = Ven
Room=20 DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips = Semiconductors=20 BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone:=20 +31-24-3534334







"Lynne = Green"=20 <lgreen@cadence.com>=20

05/27/03 06:33 PM =

        =
        To:   =  =20    Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 =
        cc:   =  =20    
  =    =20   Subject:        RE: [IBIS-Users] number = of=20 waveforms=20

       =20 Classification:        =20




Hi,=20 Erik-
  =
The typical recommendation is 4 = waveforms tables at=20 the same load (rising to Vcc, rising to GND, falling to Vcc, falling to = GND).=20  That captures how the pullup and pulldown transistors turn on and = off, so=20 tables at additional loads are not needed.
 
Additional waveform tables are permitted (up to 100 according = to the IBIS=20 spec).  But the more tables you use, the slower a simulator will=20 run.
  =
- Lynne
 
 =20
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 6:43 AM
To:=20 ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] number of=20 waveforms


Dear IBIS=20 users,

It is possible to specify more than one = waveform=20 table, for instance with different loads.
I have studied = many IBIS models=20 by semiconductor companies. All models I have seen give only one = waveform (both=20 rising and falling). =
What is the purpose of specifying more = than one=20 waveform? Does this yield better results in the simulator if the load = differs=20 from the standard load?=20

With kind = regards,


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line = Networking=20 Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE=20 Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334=20

=00 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C32542.424CB2DF-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ End of ibis-users V1 #24 ************************