From: owner-ibis-users@ (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #31 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@ Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@ Precedence: bulk ibis-users Tuesday, September 30 2003 Volume 01 : Number 031 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:29:25 -0700 From: "Angulo, John" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] load capacitor This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36CC9.24B6195A Content-Type: text/plain Erik, The reasons for a difference in LVDS results fall into two general categories. First, because IBIS was not originally intended for LVDS technology (LVDS wasn't yet in general use), IBIS models of LVDS devices usually are accurate only for the specific load used in model extraction. Second, there are several ways in which simulations in the two tools may be set up differently. The Hyperlynx simulation may include some parasitic characteristics for the capacitor leads. Or, there could be a difference in the device package modeling between the two tools. Or, a difference in the simulator time step settings may influence the effects of parasitics. The only way to validate the IBIS model and have confidence in the simulation is to see the model, the exact load, and to run a set of test simulations. Customer support will contact you offline to do this. Best regards, John Angulo Hyperlynx Products Mentor Graphics Corp. john_angulo@mentor.com 425-869-2320 - -----Original Message----- From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 11:48 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] load capacitor Hello IBIS users, I have made a model of a differential LVDS output buffer. When I simulate my IBIS model with a 100 Ohm load resistor, differentially connected, the results are very close to my circuit simulations with Spectre. The V-T curves and I-V match very well, I do not get any warnings from the IBIS parser. When I connect 2pF load capacitors between the outputs and ground the differnce with the Spectre simulation becomes very big. The output signals in Spectre look very well and smooth. THe edges are less steep and look perfect. When I simulate the IBIS model I see significant ringing. The falling edge drop till 2/3 of the amplitude and then there is horizontal step (looks a bit like an overshoot or ringing) and then it continues falling again. The relative maximum error (calculated with Ack) is about 30% with respect to the amplitude. How can this big difference be explained? What can I do to improve my model, if possible? I don't know if it is relevant but I did my IBIS simulation with Hyperlynx. With kind regards, Erik. Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36CC9.24B6195A Content-Type: text/html
Erik,
 
The reasons for a difference in LVDS results fall into two general categories.  First, because IBIS was not originally intended for LVDS technology (LVDS wasn't yet in general use), IBIS models of LVDS devices usually are accurate only for the specific load used in model extraction.  Second, there are several ways in which simulations in the two tools may be set up differently.  The Hyperlynx simulation may include some parasitic characteristics for the capacitor leads.  Or, there could be a difference in the device package modeling between the two tools.  Or, a difference in the simulator time step settings may influence the effects of parasitics.  The only way to validate the IBIS model and have confidence in the simulation is to see the model, the exact load, and to run a set of test simulations.  Customer support will contact you offline to do this.
 
Best regards,

John Angulo
Hyperlynx Products
Mentor Graphics Corp.
john_angulo@mentor.com
425-869-2320

-----Original Message-----
From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 11:48 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] load capacitor


Hello IBIS users,

I have made a model of a differential LVDS output buffer. When I simulate my IBIS model with a 100 Ohm load resistor, differentially connected, the results are very close to my circuit simulations with Spectre. The V-T curves and I-V match very well, I do not get any warnings from the IBIS parser. When  I connect 2pF load capacitors between the outputs and ground the differnce with the Spectre simulation becomes very big. The output signals in Spectre look very well and smooth. THe edges are less steep and look perfect. When I simulate the IBIS model I see significant ringing. The falling edge drop till 2/3 of the amplitude and then there is horizontal step (looks a bit like an overshoot or ringing) and then it continues falling again. The relative maximum error (calculated with Ack) is about 30% with respect to the amplitude.
How can this big difference be explained? What can I do to improve my model, if possible?
I don't know if it is relevant but I did my IBIS simulation with Hyperlynx.


With kind regards,
Erik.


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C36CC9.24B6195A-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:46:50 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Reminder on Posting Just a reminder to us all... This reflector is not intended for posting of Commercial information, such as product features or comparisons of EDA tools. For tool-specific issues, please contact the respective vendors directly. All EDA companies are happy to provide Customer Support for their tools. Lynne Green Vice Chair, IBIS Open Forum Cadence Design Systems, Inc. PS: Thanks, John, for your helpful reply on the LVDS posting. :-) |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:13:39 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Second Call for Papers, PCB East IBIS Summit - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT SECOND CALL FOR PARTICIPATION & PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2003, 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Location: North East Systems Associates 5 Lan Drive Westford, MA 01886 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: If your company would be interested in sponsoring this event, please contact Lynne Green . Sponsorship is available for the lunch and coffee breaks. Benefits to sponsors include formal recognition at the meeting and mention in the Calls for Papers and meeting minutes. Your financial support strengthens the organization by allowing IBIS to focus resources on industry activities rather than raising money, and you will receive generous thanks for your support. PCB Design Conference East October 20 - 24, 2003 Holiday Inn Boxborough 242 Adams Place Boxborough, MA 01719 See for more information. BACKGROUND PCB East is the premier East Coast event dedicated exclusively to PCB design and engineering professionals. Topics of current interest to the EIA IBIS Open Forum are addressed at PCB East. This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations are expected to be available and archived in an electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the meeting. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate in the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Attending in Person? Or by Phone? Send to: Kathy Breda (breda@nesa.com). CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have experiences of interest to the IBIS modeling community. In the past, these have included demonstrations of modeling techniques, explanations of behavioral algorithms and descriptions of difficulties encountered in specific applications. Of particular interest are topics related to model correlation, modeling building experiences and comparisons to other modeling methods. Presentations may be addressed to any and all levels of IBIS experience, from beginning to advanced. Format of Presentation: LCD Projection with Windows laptop. Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. Electronic presentations should be made available by October 14, 2003 for uploading and copying to the presentation laptop. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Lynne Green (lgreen@cadence.com) AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, breaks, and a luncheon (which will be provided). This will be developed as presentation proposals are received. The following individuals have signed up to present at the summit (presentation titles are tentative). * IBIS Chair's Report, Michael Mirmak (Intel Corp) * IBIS Quality Update, Barry Katz/Bob Haller (SiSoft) * ICM 1.0 Update, Michael Mirmak (Intel Corp) LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS See for travel directions, hotels and other information. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:42:15 -0700 From: "Eric Hsu" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Question about diode model This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C37335.CA3C5CE8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stephen Peters and IBIS expert, To obtain the accurate ibis model for output buffer, I'd like to know = how can I separate junction and bulk resistance for output driver and = parasitic diode.=20 Stephen, when studying your the article, which is "IBIS FORUM I/O BUFFER = MODELING COOKBOOK"-- Sep. 24,1997, I found on page 10, you ever = mentioned that model creator may need to include junction and bulk = resistance for driver and diode separately. If place non-silicide = blocking layer to increase drain resistance, I wonder how people can = separate them from parasitic diode. Because this parasitic resistance is = really high, and it suppose only affect surface conduction current path, = but not vertical path through bulk.=20 Right now, there is only one way I have is insert those parasitic = resistance only at source end, which mean, for driver portion, moving = drain resistance to source end. Also, inserting all the bulk resistance = between P-end of ground clamping diode to GND connection, and N-end of = power clamping diode to PWR connection. Of course, it is not perfect = idea, because it could cause some different voltage drop from pad to = drain and source end. Any better idea? Or anything wrong from above statement? Best Regards, Eric Hsu Interface Technologies NetLogic Microsystems, Inc. 450 National Ave. Mountain View, CA 94043 650-961-6676 x198 This e-mail contains NetLogic Microsystems, Inc. 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This describes the fixed (bulk) resistance through the junction. Some diode models have additional parameters to describe the perimeter and surface resistances. Depending on your diode layout, the current could be dominated by perimeter currents rather than junction currents. (Note: if you prefer to model this with an external resistor for each clamp, this resistor could be placed on either side of the clamp diode, since this would be a series connection.) Similarly, there are usually two parameters in the MOSFET model to describe the effective source and drain resistances. External resistors could be used instead. Moving the drain resistance to the source end is _not_ recommended, since this changes the effective Vgs seen by the device, which in turn changes the drive current. If any resistance is strongly dependent on bias (i.e. the depletion layer is a significant fraction of the distance from the junction to the contact), then you would want to look more closely at the equations/parameters implemented by your particular SPICE flavor. For example, early Berkeley MOSFET and diode models did not support bias-dependent bulk resistance. Best regards, Lynne > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Hsu [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of > Eric Hsu > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 3:42 PM > To: Ibis-Users (E-mail); Stephen Peters (E-mail) > Cc: Frank Dunlap > Subject: Question about diode model >=20 > Hi Stephen Peters and IBIS expert, >=20 > To obtain the accurate ibis model for output buffer, I'd like to know > how can I separate junction and bulk resistance for output driver and > parasitic diode.=20 > Stephen, when studying your the article, which is "IBIS FORUM I/O > BUFFER MODELING COOKBOOK"-- Sep. 24,1997, I found on page 10, you ever > mentioned that model creator may need to include junction and bulk > resistance for driver and diode separately. If place non-silicide > blocking layer to increase drain resistance, I wonder how people can > separate them from parasitic diode. Because this parasitic resistance > is really high, and it suppose only affect surface conduction current > path, but not vertical path through bulk.=20 > Right now, there is only one way I have is insert those parasitic > resistance only at source end, which mean, for driver portion, moving > drain resistance to source end. Also, inserting all the bulk > resistance between P-end of ground clamping diode to GND connection, > and N-end of power clamping diode to PWR connection. Of course, it is > not perfect idea, because it could cause some different voltage drop > from pad to drain and source end. > Any better idea? Or anything wrong from above statement? >=20 > Best Regards, >=20 > Eric Hsu > Interface Technologies > NetLogic Microsystems, Inc. > 450 National Ave. > Mountain View, CA 94043 > 650-961-6676 x198 > This e-mail contains NetLogic Microsystems, Inc. Confidential > information >=20 >=20 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C37339.8D64B2BA Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Question about diode model

Hello, Eric,

There is a bulk = resistance parameter (RS or equivalent) in the diode model (with a = default value of zero Ohms).  This describes the fixed (bulk) = resistance through the junction.  Some diode models have additional = parameters to describe the perimeter and surface resistances.  = Depending on your diode layout, the current could be dominated by = perimeter currents rather than junction currents.  (Note: if you = prefer to model this with an external resistor for each clamp, this = resistor could be placed on either side of the clamp diode, since this = would be a series connection.)

Similarly, there are = usually two parameters in the MOSFET model to describe the effective = source and drain resistances.  External resistors could be used = instead.

Moving the drain = resistance to the source end is _not_ recommended, since this changes = the effective Vgs seen by the device, which in turn changes the drive = current.

If any resistance is = strongly dependent on bias (i.e. the depletion layer is a significant = fraction of the distance from the junction to the contact), then you = would want to look more closely at the equations/parameters implemented = by your particular SPICE flavor.  For example, early Berkeley = MOSFET and diode models did not support bias-dependent bulk = resistance.

Best regards,
Lynne

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Eric Hsu [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]  On Behalf Of Eric Hsu
Sent:   Thursday, September 04, 2003 3:42 PM
To:     Ibis-Users (E-mail); Stephen Peters (E-mail)
Cc:     Frank Dunlap
Subject:       = Question about diode model

Hi Stephen Peters and IBIS = expert,

To obtain the accurate ibis model for = output buffer, I'd like to know how can I separate junction and bulk = resistance for output driver and parasitic diode.

Stephen, when studying your the = article, which is "IBIS FORUM I/O BUFFER MODELING COOKBOOK"-- = Sep. 24,1997, I found on page 10, you ever mentioned that model creator = may need to include junction and bulk resistance for driver and diode = separately. If place non-silicide blocking layer to increase drain = resistance, I wonder how people can separate them from parasitic diode. = Because this parasitic resistance is really high, and it suppose only = affect surface conduction current path, but not vertical path through = bulk.

Right now, there is only one way I have = is insert those parasitic resistance only at source end, which mean, for = driver portion, moving drain resistance to source end.  Also, = inserting all the bulk resistance between P-end of ground clamping diode = to GND connection, and N-end of power clamping diode to PWR connection. = Of course, it is not perfect idea, because it could cause some different = voltage drop from pad to drain and source end.

Any better idea? Or anything wrong from = above statement?

Best Regards,

Eric Hsu
Interface Technologies
NetLogic Microsystems, Inc.
450 National Ave.
Mountain View, CA 94043
650-961-6676 x198
This e-mail contains NetLogic = Microsystems, Inc. Confidential information


- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C37339.8D64B2BA-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:42:38 -0700 From: "Mirmak, Michael" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Agenda, IBIS Open Forum Teleconference 9/12/03 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3735F.C076C50D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 9/12/03 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode 1-916-356-2663 2 890-1093 (International Dial-In: 1-617-801-9781) All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When calling=20 into the meeting, provide the reservation number and passcode at=20 the automated prompts. If asked by an operator, please request=20 to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Mirmak - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Mirmak - Call for Patents (IBIS 4.0, 4.1, ICM) Mirmak - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Mirmak - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Mirmak August 22, 2003 Open Forum Minutes - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Leventhal - Opens for New Issues All 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuits Electromagnetic=20 Model Proposal (IEC 93/67/NP IBIS=20 and EMC Simulation) Perrin/Peters - JEDEC Committee Report Green PCB East Summit Planning Mirmak DesignCon 2004 Summit Planning Mirmak IBIS Version 4.0 Parser Status Mirmak/Peters IBIS Quality Committee Report Katz/Green IBIS Model Review Committee Green S2IBIS3 Status Varma/Ross New Administrative Issues All 8:45 Technical Discussion Driver Schedule Clarification Muranyi - Subparameters ignored in scheduled models? ICM Specification Discussion and Call for Vote Mirmak, All Series Element Clarification BIRD Status Mirmak - [Series MOSFET] and Vds - [Series Switch Groups] and function_table_group IBIS Version 4.1 Discussion All - [Ramp]/C_comp BIRD status IBISCHK4 Status Ross/Angulo BUG80 - [Model Selector] and [Diff Pin] Ordering Angulo - Clarification BIRD required? New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meeting Plans Mirmak 9:55 Sign Off - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3735F.C076C50D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agenda, IBIS Open Forum Teleconference 9/12/03

        =              IBIS Open Forum Meeting = Agenda
        =         =                for = 9/12/03

           Bridge = Number    Reservation #   Passcode
           = 1-916-356-2663       = 2           = 890-1093
            = (International Dial-In: 1-617-801-9781)

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 = AM Pacific Time.  When calling
into the meeting, provide the = reservation number and passcode at
the automated prompts.  If = asked by an operator, please request
to join the IBIS Open Forum = hosted by Michael Mirmak.

8:00 Check-In, Intros, = Announcements          =              = Mirmak

     - Intros = of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum     = Mirmak
     - Call = for Patents (IBIS 4.0, 4.1, = ICM)           &nb= sp;   Mirmak
     - = Membership Update and Treasurers = Report           &= nbsp; Mirmak
     - = Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and = ARs)      Mirmak
         August 22, 2003 = Open Forum Minutes
     - = Miscellany/Announcements        &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;       All
     - Press = & Web Page = Updates           =             &= nbsp;    Huq, All
     - New = Models Available, Library = Update           &= nbsp;    Leventhal
     - Opens = for New = Issues           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;        All

8:15 Administrative and Project = Discussions

     = International/External Progress
     - IEC = 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuits Electromagnetic
       Model Proposal (IEC 93/67/NP = IBIS
       and EMC = Simulation)          &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;          = Perrin/Peters
     - JEDEC = Committee = Report           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;      Green

     PCB East = Summit = Planning           = ;            =        Mirmak

     = DesignCon 2004 Summit = Planning           = ;            = Mirmak

     IBIS = Version 4.0 Parser = Status           &= nbsp;            = Mirmak/Peters

     IBIS = Quality Committee = Report           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp; Katz/Green

     IBIS = Model Review = Committee          &nbs= p;            = ;    Green

     S2IBIS3 = Status           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;    Varma/Ross

     New = Administrative = Issues           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;     All

8:45 Technical Discussion

     Driver = Schedule = Clarification          =             &= nbsp;  Muranyi
     - = Subparameters ignored in scheduled models?

     ICM = Specification Discussion and Call for = Vote        Mirmak, All

     Series = Element Clarification BIRD = Status           &= nbsp;  Mirmak
     - = [Series MOSFET] and Vds
     - = [Series Switch Groups] and function_table_group

     IBIS = Version 4.1 = Discussion          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;    All
     - = [Ramp]/C_comp BIRD status

     IBISCHK4 = Status           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   Ross/Angulo

     BUG80 - = [Model Selector] and [Diff Pin] Ordering      = Angulo
     - = Clarification BIRD required?

     New = Technical = Issues           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;          All

9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meeting = Plans           &n= bsp;            = Mirmak

9:55 Sign Off

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3735F.C076C50D-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:01:22 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?anil=20kumar?= Subject: [IBIS-Users] Question about experimental setup to get V-I V-t curves Hi experts, I am learning IBIS models and i am trying to get accurate models for I/O buffers of ICs. My problem is how to have experimental setup for getting the V-I,V-T curves of any general IC.Please tell me what are the steps that are to be followed to do that experiment. One more thing is I can't avail Curvetracer. Can you suggest me what can I use in place of curve tracer. Please reply me experimental set up procedures to get V-I and V-t charecters of IC(general)buffers. with regards, anil ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 04:52:35 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?SUDHEER?= Subject: [IBIS-Users] ECL ibis models Hi Experts I am trying to extract IBIS VI Characteristics for ECL buffers , both single ended and Differential from spice models . I understand the different convention is to be followed while generating for ECL buffers , Does anybody have guideline for this And regarding differential buffers , How to extract VT curves , what is the setup required . I have simulated differential signals but couldn't understand how this is simulated with ibis model . Any inputs on this will be helpful to me Regards SUDHEER ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:19:53 +0200 From: Christophe Robichon Subject: [IBIS-Users] C_comp use Hello IBIS users, I had few questions on C_comp definition. C_comp is used to define die capacitance (without package): is the attached netlist should integrate this value (for me yes)? If i understood, the s2ibis tool doesn't take care of this value in his static & dynamic responses computation. C_comp is only used by PCB simulator? Best regards, Christophe - -- Christophe ROBICHON CAD Developments Engineer ATMEL NANTES SA Mailto:christophe.robichon@nto.atmel.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:15:25 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?anil=20kumar?= Subject: [IBIS-Users] How to perform Laboratory measurement for getting VI and VT data Hi sudheer & experts, My question is how to get V-I and V-t curves by Direct measurement method. Please suggets me any material which contains detailed explanation(with some circuit diagrams preferrably)of Lab set up.What is the use of curve tracer for getting data? I don't have cuve tracer. Please tell me what can I use in place of cuve tracer. sudheer, I followed your suggested material. It is helpful for me in knowing the modes of operations for getting the typ min max values. But what my doubt is, can I use HSPICE simulation set up for Laboratory measurements also? If no, then Please suggest any other material which will be helpful to perform Direct measurement. with regards, anil. ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:16:32 -0700 From: "Tom Dagostino" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] How to perform Laboratory measurement for getting VI and VT data Anil There are services such as myself that do this kind of work. It takes a lot of equipment, knowledge, skills and experience to do it right. Most of the ICs today will have transitions on the order of 200 psec or less. This puts the bandwidth of the signals to be measured greater than 1 GHz. Many of today's IC have energy out to more than 10 GHz. This is the realm of microwave measurements. The cost of the equipment tracks the frequencies that need to be measured. You are not going to get a cookbook answer to your question from a reflector such as this and be able to go off and make your measurements. It takes a lot of experience using the proper T&M equipment, understanding of how the components work, how to instrument and stimulate the DUT, etc. to do the job right. Regards, Tom Dagostino Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065 tom@teraspeed.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of anil kumar Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:15 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] How to perform Laboratory measurement for getting VI and VT data Hi sudheer & experts, My question is how to get V-I and V-t curves by Direct measurement method. Please suggets me any material which contains detailed explanation(with some circuit diagrams preferrably)of Lab set up.What is the use of curve tracer for getting data? I don't have cuve tracer. Please tell me what can I use in place of cuve tracer. sudheer, I followed your suggested material. It is helpful for me in knowing the modes of operations for getting the typ min max values. But what my doubt is, can I use HSPICE simulation set up for Laboratory measurements also? If no, then Please suggest any other material which will be helpful to perform Direct measurement. with regards, anil. ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:46:44 -0700 From: "Angulo, John" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] How to perform Laboratory measurement The following is posted on behalf of Bob Haller at SiSoft. Please sent any private replies to rhaller@sisoft.com. - --------------- Anil, I co-wrote a paper that is in the Designcon98 proceedings "Constructing Accurate Behavioral Buffers" that provides circuit diagrams , lab setup, sample test board, and suggested equipment. We also had a booth, where we demonstrated how to acquire all of this information. Don't forget to acquire Ccomp it is a critical parameter to get correct. If you don't have access to a copy of the proceedings, contact me off-line. regards, Bob anil kumar wrote: > Hi sudheer & experts, > My question is how to get V-I and V-t curves by > Direct measurement method. Please suggets me any > material which contains detailed explanation(with some > circuit diagrams preferrably)of Lab set up.What is the > use of curve tracer for getting data? I don't have > cuve tracer. Please tell me what can I use in place of > cuve tracer. > sudheer, I followed your suggested material. It is > helpful for me in knowing the modes of operations for > getting the typ min max values. But what my doubt is, > can I use HSPICE simulation set up for Laboratory > measurements also? If no, then Please suggest any > other material which will be helpful to perform Direct > measurement. > with regards, > anil. > - -- Robert J. Haller (rhaller@sisoft.com) Principal Consultant Signal Integrity Software Inc. 6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250 Maynard, MA 01754 Phone: (978) 461-0449, ext 15 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:37:15 -0400 From: Robert Haller Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] How to perform Laboratory measurement for getting VI and VT data Anil, Tom is absolutely correct. It takes skills, experience and expensive equipment to do the job right (this is also what my paper concluded). regards, Bob p.s. I believe past proceedings can be back-ordered from the IEC. . Tom Dagostino wrote: > Anil > > There are services such as myself that do this kind of work. It takes a lot > of equipment, knowledge, skills and experience to do it right. Most of the > ICs today will have transitions on the order of 200 psec or less. This puts > the bandwidth of the signals to be measured greater than 1 GHz. Many of > today's IC have energy out to more than 10 GHz. This is the realm of > microwave measurements. The cost of the equipment tracks the frequencies > that need to be measured. > > You are not going to get a cookbook answer to your question from a reflector > such as this and be able to go off and make your measurements. It takes a > lot of experience using the proper T&M equipment, understanding of how the > components work, how to instrument and stimulate the DUT, etc. to do the job > right. > > Regards, > > Tom Dagostino > Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC > 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division > Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane > Beaverton, OR 97008 > http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065 > tom@teraspeed.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On > Behalf Of anil kumar > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:15 AM > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] How to perform Laboratory measurement for getting > VI and VT data > > > Hi sudheer & experts, > My question is how to get V-I and V-t curves by > Direct measurement method. Please suggets me any > material which contains detailed explanation(with some > circuit diagrams preferrably)of Lab set up.What is the > use of curve tracer for getting data? I don't have > cuve tracer. Please tell me what can I use in place of > cuve tracer. > sudheer, I followed your suggested material. It is > helpful for me in knowing the modes of operations for > getting the typ min max values. But what my doubt is, > can I use HSPICE simulation set up for Laboratory > measurements also? If no, then Please suggest any > other material which will be helpful to perform Direct > measurement. > with regards, > anil. > - -- Robert J. Haller (rhaller@sisoft.com) Principal Consultant Signal Integrity Software Inc. 6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250 Maynard, MA 01754 Phone: (978) 461-0449, ext 15 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:31:30 -0700 From: "Eric Hsu" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ccomp issue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3799F.242536FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi IBIS expert, As you know, there are three C_comp in ibis model, which are = typ/min/max. For different corner, does simulation tool always take each = one with responding I-V or V-T tables? ( which mean: C_comp(max) with = I-V/V-T(max), C_comp(min) with I-V/V-T(min)) Best Regards, Eric Hsu Interface Technologies NetLogic Microsystems, Inc. 450 National Ave. Mountain View, CA 94043 650-961-6676 x198 This e-mail contains Netlogic Microsystems, Inc. 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You'll need to check with each vendor to see how their tool treats the corner cases. I can tell you that ICX has the ability to handle C_comp corners independently from the I-V tables. i.e. you could setup a simulation with C_comp(min) and I-V tables(max) to get the fastest driver. Regards, Weston > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Hsu [mailto:ehsu@netlogicmicro.com] > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 7:32 PM > To: Ibis-Users (E-mail) > Subject: Ccomp issue > > Hi IBIS expert, > > As you know, there are three C_comp in ibis model, which are typ/min/max. For different corner, does simulation tool always take each one with responding I-V or V-T tables? ( which mean: C_comp(max) with I-V/V-T(max), C_comp(min) with I-V/V-T(min)) > > Best Regards, > > Eric Hsu > Interface Technologies > NetLogic Microsystems, Inc. > 450 National Ave. > Mountain View, CA 94043 > 650-961-6676 x198 > This e-mail contains Netlogic Microsystems, Inc. Confidential information > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:29:08 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: Ccomp issue Hello, Eric, Physically, "slow" corner usually has C_comp(max) and I-V/V-t(min). Increased capacitance slows transitions. Cadence SPECCTRAQuest uses that as the default, but the user can set preferences to any combination. As Weston noted, it is possible that some SI simulators use a different default combination. Best regards, Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Eric Hsu [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Eric Hsu Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 7:32 PM To: Ibis-Users (E-mail) Subject: Ccomp issue Hi IBIS expert, As you know, there are three C_comp in ibis model, which are typ/min/max. For different corner, does simulation tool always take each one with responding I-V or V-T tables? ( which mean: C_comp(max) with I-V/V-T(max), C_comp(min) with I-V/V-T(min)) Best Regards, Eric Hsu Interface Technologies NetLogic Microsystems, Inc. 450 National Ave. Mountain View, CA 94043 650-961-6676 x198 This e-mail contains Netlogic Microsystems, Inc. Confidential information |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:25:13 -0600 From: rrwolff@micron.com Subject: [IBIS-Users] [IBIS] Open forum minutes (09/12/03) DATE: 9/15/03 SUBJECT: September 12, 2003 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2003 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Michael LaBonte, Val Mandruson, Hung Pham, Todd Westerhoff Fairchild Semiconductor (Graham Connolly) Hitachi ULSI Systems Kazuyoshi Shoji Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Michael Mirmak*, Arpad Muranyi*, Eric Magnusson LSI Logic Frank Gasparik Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics [Bob Ross], Ian Dodd, Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Mike Donnelly, Weston Beal Micron Technology Randy Wolff* Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola (Rick Kingen) National Semiconductor [Milt Schwartz], [Tim Coyle] NEC Electric Corporation (Itsuki Yamada) Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions), Stephanie Goedecke Siemens (& Automotive) AG Eckhard Lenski*, Michael Kindij, Burkhard Muller, Katja Koller, Andre Goerisch, Manfred Maurer, Bernard Unger, Amir Motamedi, Hartmut Ibowski, Gerald Bannert Signal Integrity Software Bob Haller, Barry Katz, Doug Burns Sigrity [Raj Raghuram] Synopsys Warren Wong, Edmund Cheng Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher Teraspeed Scott McMorrow, Tom Dagostino, Kevin Simpson, Bob Ross* Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Zuken (& Incases) Michael Schaeder, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2003: Agilent Technologies Herbert Lage Brocade Frank Yuan, Yongrue Yu Conexant Gary Felker EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin EFM Ekkehard Miersch EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, John Fernandez, Simba Julian Fraunhofer IZM Ege Engin Fujitsu Tadashi Arai GEIA (Chris Denham) Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong) Independent Kelly Green, Luca Giacotto Infineon Tech AG Christian Sporrer Marvell Semiconductor Itzik Peleg NetLogic Microsystems Eric Hsu North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre North Carolina State Univ. Ambrish Varma* Plexus Joseph Socha Politechnico de Torino Igor Stievano Qlogic Larry Barnes Sintecs BV Hans Klos, Bob te Nijenhuis SiQual (Rob Hinz) Sun Microsystems Tim Coyle Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode October 3, 2003 1-916-356-2663 2 643-9661 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting. When calling into the meeting, provide the reservation number and passcode at the automated prompts. If asked by an operator, please request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. - -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. CALL FOR PATENTS Michael Mirmak called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS Version 4.0, 4.1 or ICM specifications. No patents were declared. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Michael Mirmak reported that membership remains at 25 organizations, with a twenty-sixth member in processing. One invoice for membership is still in processing. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The August 22, 2003 meeting minutes were approved without objection. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS No new announcements. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross noted that Syed Huq has updated several links to presentations on the eigroup.org IBIS web site. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE No new models received. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES No new issues. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) No update. - - JEDEC Activity Report Lynne Green reported that she has been invited to present a one-day short course on IBIS and IBIS modeling during the JEDEX spring meeting. The URL for the JEDEC organization is http://www.jedec.org/. The JEDEX 2004 conference does not yet have its own URL. PCB EAST SUMMIT DISCUSSION Lynne Green has distributed the second call for papers to the PCB East IBIS Summit. Currently, three presentations are planned: the Chair's Report, a presentation from Sun's Timothy Coyle on their modeling efforts and a web page proposal, and an IBIS Quality Committee report from Robert Haller. Lynne Green may also present. Open Forum members are encouraged to contribute materials on any IBIS technical or administrative issue. Bob Ross suggested that, if more presentations are not forthcoming, the event may be reduced to one-half day. Michael Mirmak and Lynne Green also held a meeting with Kathy Breda of NESA to finalize all summit details. A room for about fifteen people is available at NESA's offices. Arrangements for an LCD projector, teleconference phone, light refreshments, and photocopying have been completed. NESA made several suggestions for potential luncheon arrangements, but sponsorship is still needed (see below). Michael also reported that a teleconference bridge and telephone number have been arranged for the summit, with details to be announced in the summit agenda. DESIGNCON 2004 SUMMIT DISCUSSION Michael Mirmak reported that a new agreement for IBIS Summit support has been received from the IEC. Discussions are planned in the immediate future regarding whether some of the complementary items may be traded for refreshments for the Summit participants. In addition, sponsors are needed for lunches at both PCB East and DesignCon 2004. Open Forum members and participants are encouraged to inquire at their organizations regarding co-sponsorship of the summit. Sponsors will be prominently mentioned in Summit presentations, announcements, and the minutes. IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING AND STATUS Michael Mirmak reported that payment from one parser sponsor has still not yet been received by the GEIA. He will continue pursuing this. A beta version of IBISCHK4 is available for download: http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/ibischk4_beta IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE Lynne Green reported that meetings continue every two weeks, though the most recent meeting was cancelled. The next meeting is scheduled for September 23, 2003. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE Lynne Green reported that two new models, from Motorola and Maxim, have been received by the committee and have been distributed for review. S2IBIS3 Ambrish Varma and Bob Ross reported that work continues on S2IBIS3 development, especially on series elements. A new version is to be released within the next few weeks. S2IBIS3 beta executables can be downloaded from: http://www.ece.ncsu.edu/erl/ibis/s2ibis3/s2ibis3.htm Feedback on the current beta version is appreciated and encouraged. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES No new issues. DRIVER SCHEDULE CLARIFICATION Arpad Muranyi introduced several new issues regarding the treatment of subparameters in scheduled models. Using the "Polarity" subparameter as an example, Arpad noted that the triggering polarity to be assumed by tools using models with [Driver Schedule] is unclear. John Angulo and Bob Ross both noted that the intent behind the specification was that top-level model subparameters should be observed, while subparameters in the scheduled models were to be ignored. In addition, the Polarity subparameter was to be completely ignored when used with [Driver Schedule]. Some mention of ignored and observed [Driver Schedule] keywords are mentioned in the IBIS specifications, but the list does not extend to all subparameters. Arpad took the AR to write a clarification BIRD to address the issue, so that the treatment of both keywords and subparameters is unambiguous. Additionally, Arpad observed that, in cases where only rising edge delays are described for [Driver Schedule] models, the timing sequence is unclear regarding falling edges. In "totem-pole" designs, for example, must the rising edge delay complete before any falling edge turns off the pullup? Whether the timing sequence or the actual input edges control the output is not obvious from the specification. Arpad will write a description of the issue for discussion on the IBIS reflector. Bob Ross suggested that any resolution to this issue in a BIRD not prevent adoption of IBIS 4.1 in a timely manner. Michael Mirmak mentioned that, in a fashion similar to the W3 Consortium's HTML 4.0 specification, the Open Forum may wish to consider using the term "deprecated" to describe keywords that are only mentioned for historical reasons in the IBIS specification. Finally, Arpad noted that the specifications do not clearly describe whether multiple [Submodel] calls may be made from a single [Model]. Bob Ross suggests that this is allowable, so long as the various [Submodel]s are of different type. An additional clarification BIRD may be required to address this issue. IBIS ICM SPECIFICATION REVIEW Michael Mirmak announced the final "reading" of the ICM specification and reviewed the changes proposed for the next revision. These are: - allow multiple unused model names under the [ICM Model List] keyword for use in multiple ICM model descriptions (from David Lieby, Acuson) - permit mixing RLGC and S-parameter data within a single model description (from Scott McMorrow, Teraspeed) - support for frequency dependent RLGC matrices (from Scott McMorrow, Teraspeed and Arpad Muranyi, Intel Corp.) - add explicit links between IBIS and ICM to one or both specifications (from Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp.) None of these represent a barrier to adoption of the current draft and may be resolved in the next ICM revision without great difficulty. No other comments or suggestions have been received or were offered during the meeting. Bob Ross and Michael both suggested that references to ICM within IBIS not be added to the IBIS specification until after version 4.1 is complete. Tools may use models under both specifications separately without cross-referencing the specifications. In addition, further issues may be revealed as the parser and actual product models are developed. Some concerns were raised regarding whether the Agilent Touchstone(TM) document written by the Open Forum required an approval vote. The Open Forum members agreed that, until further information was received from Agilent regarding the draft 1.2 document, no further action should be taken on approving the Agilent Touchstone(TM) document. A vote was called for approval of the ICM 1.0 draft. The document was approved by unanimous vote of the Open Forum members. Bob Ross noted that a final copy will be prepared that makes no changes to the content but which resolves some remaining formatting issues, adds a copyright statement, and includes the approval date. By acclamation, the final document will be called "icm_ver1_0.xxx" where "xxx" may be "txt", "pdf", or "doc" as appropriate to the distribution format. Michael accepted the AR to develop a BIRD process for ICM to address specification changes. He also will work with Bob Ross on an update to the IBIS web site to store ICM-related materials. CLARIFICATION BIRD DISCUSSION Michael Mirmak announced that a draft BIRD83 text is being written to resolve the series element issues mentioned in earlier Open Forum meetings. This text will be made available in time for review during the October 3 Open Forum meeting. Arpad Muranyi noted that, to address differential buffer behaviors, the [Series MOSFET] keyword may need to be expanded. At present, negative Vds values are not allowed, as the behavior of the device being described is assumed symmetrical around Vds=0. Based on work detailed at a recent IBIS Summit, Arpad suggests that negative values could be allowed in future IBIS models, so long as symmetry is assumed for models which use no negative values. Bob Ross reminded the Open Forum members of the assumptions behind the non-negative value treatment and also strongly suggested that any BIRD changing the treatment of [Series MOSFET]s not prevent approval of IBIS 4.1. IBIS VERSION 4.1 DISCUSSION John Angulo updated the Open Forum on his work in developing an expansion of the [Ramp] keyword, for use with the 4.1 multilingual extensions. At present, John favors keeping the [Ramp] keyword as a requirement, both of [Model] and [External Model]. This treatment is consistent with current IBIS usage and does not unduly burden [External Model]. Lynne Green suggested that the load resistance and termination voltage assumptions may need to be changed for use with [External Model], as differential buffers may not be appropriately represented by simulation into single-ended terminations. Arpad Muranyi mentioned that current-mode drivers may not observe [Ramp] requirements as they may not show voltage output variation under appropriate loading. John suggested that using a dV value of zero is technically legitimate and may allow [Ramp] to be used for timestep estimation in such cases. John will provide draft BIRD language for review on the IBIS Reflector. A draft version of IBIS version 4.1 is available on the web. Both an ASCII text and an Adobe PDF version are available at: http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/wip/ IBISCHK4 & BUG TRACKING STATUS Due to time constraints, discussion was deferred until the next meeting. The beta version of IBISCHK4 is available at: http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/ibischk4_beta BUG80 - [Model Selector] and [Diff Pin] Ordering Due to time constraints, discussion was deferred until the next meeting. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference has been scheduled for October 3 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax: (916) 377-1046 michael.mirmak@intel.com Senior Analog Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S FM6-45 1900 Prairie City Rd. Folsom, CA 95630 VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871 lgreen@cadence.com Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems 320 120th Ave NE, Suite B-103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016 SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475 rrwolff@micron.com Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc. 8000 S. Federal Way Mail Stop: 1-711 Boise, ID 83707-0006 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398 roy.leventhal@ieee.org Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications 1924 North Burke Drive Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008 John_angulo@mentor.com Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. Logins using anonymous FTP are accepted. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:54:48 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Driver Schedule keyword ambiguities All, As I promised in the last IBIS Open Forum Teleconference, I am posting a message about the issues that were discovered with the [Driver Schedule] keyword recently. 1) Under the Usage Rules, the end of the 3rd paragraph says the following in the current specification: | ... Also, all other keywords not shown | in the above list will be ignored in the scheduled model(s). The question becomes, what about the subparameters? Are they also supposed to be ignored in the scheduled models? For reference, I looked up the subparameters of the [Model] keyword: | Sub-Params: Model_type, Polarity, Enable, Vinl, Vinh, C_comp, | C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power_clamp, | C_comp_gnd_clamp, Vmeas, Cref, Rref, Vref Interestingly, the "Other Notes" of the [Driver Schedule] keyword says that: | Notice that the C_comp parameter of a multi-stage buffer is | defined in the top-level model. ... (As a comment on style I have to mention that the word "Notice" is improper here, because this is the first time C_comp is mentioned in the entire [Driver Schedule] description, so there was actually nothing to notice about C_comp before the reader got this far...). Regarding the main subject of this writing, however, notice :-) that C_comp is a subparameter. We agreed verbally in the last teleconference that we should just make the text in the first quote include all keywords and subparameters. So the suggested text would read something like: | ... Also, all other keywords not shown in the above list and all | subparameters will be ignored in the scheduled model(s). This is hopefully an easy change (clarification) in the specification. 2) There is another problem with the wording of the [Driver Schedule] keyword. This is related to our four 7-line long famous one-sentence paragraphs describing the meaning of the on/off delay parameters. The issue is that the word "event" (towards the end) is not defined. Because of that, some ambiguities may arise when two of the parameters are NA so that the given numbers are both in the ON or OFF delay positions. The ambiguity will happen when the two numbers are not equal and the stimulus is shorter than the delay. For example, the following example is well defined, there are no problems with it: | Model_name Rise_on_dly Rise_off_dly Fall_on_dly Fall_off_dly MODEL_OUT 0.0ns NA 0.0ns NA However, the next example has a problem: | Model_name Rise_on_dly Rise_off_dly Fall_on_dly Fall_off_dly MODEL_OUT 20.0ns NA 0.0ns NA Imagine a test case, in which the stimulus begins at 0 V, and has a periodic short pulse with a pulse width of 5 ns. The pulses repeat every 50 ns. At time zero, the output will be 0 V, since the stimulus is also 0 V. Given the above delay values, the first rising edge of the stimulus would initiate a delay for the output to go high 20 ns later. However, the question is, what should the falling edge do which comes 5 ns after this delay got initialized and before the output could switch due to the delay? Should it cancel the unexpired delay, or should it let it run its course? In the first case, the output would remain at 0 V forever, because the falling edge stimulus will always cancel the unexpired rising edge delay. On the other hand, if the delay is allowed to run its course, we would see a rising edge on the output 20 ns after the rising edge stimulus, even though there was a falling edge stimulus that should have generated a falling edge on the output (which we didn't see, because the output was at 0 V during this time). The output would actually go low at the next time the stimulus goes low, because at that time the output will be in the high state already. Here is an ASCII attempt to illustrate this: Stimulus: __ __ __ ___| |________________| |________________| |____________... Output: ____________ ___________ ____... _____________| |_______| |_______| Note that this problem only occurs if the pulse width is smaller than the delay, in other words, the buffer is over clocked. Trying to get a physical meaning to these delays I can imagine a design that, being over clocked, will not switch at all, but I could also imagine a design that is kind of pipe lined and would generate the above waveforms. To me it seems that both interpretations can be correct. The question in terms of how the spec is written is whether the "event" refers to the edge of the stimulus which starts the delays, or whether the "event" occurs when the timer expires and sets the time to t=0 for the Vt curve to generate the output transition. We would either have to limit ourselves to just one of these possible cases in the IBIS spec with a clarification to this keyword, or if both results are desired, we need to add another parameter that allows a selection mechanism. Even though technically perhaps more appealing, this option seems to be less favorable, since there is a note already at the end of this keyword that says: | Note: In a future release, the [Driver Schedule] keyword may | be replaced by a newer method of specification that is | consistent with some other planned extensions. However, the | [Driver Schedule] syntax will continue to be supported. Which basically says that this keyword was just an interim solution until we have something better. Because of that I would not favor making improvements to [Driver Schedule], only clarifications. With BIRD 75 we can achieve any kind of a buffer behavior now, so we would not be stranded. Having said that, which solution should we pick? The one that produces a flat line on the output, or the one that still produces a waveform? To be consistent with the way Vt curves are handled, it seems that the "flat line solution" may be what we need here. This is because due to current algorithms, a regular buffer having long Vt curves will also respond with a flat line on the output when stimulated faster than the Vt curves allow. Note that this situation would also arise with other combinations of delay numbers when they are in the On-On or Off-Off places, have different values, and the stimulus is shorter than the delay values. The above is just one example to illustrate the issue. I would like to combine these two problems in the same clarification BIRD to the [Driver Schedule] keyword. Please send me your comments and suggestions so I could write a useful BIRD. Thanks, Arpad ==================================================================== |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:42:59 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Are multiple Submodel calls allowed in IBIS? All, This subject was raised in the last Open Forum Teleconference based on a message I received in a private email. I am also copying the original sender with a (blind) copy (BCC) of this response to answer their question. The question was asked whether multiple submodel calls are allowed in a given [Model]. I looked at the IBIS specification and found the following: | Usage Rules: The [Add Submodel] keyword is invoked within a model to add | the functionality that is contained in the submodel or list of | submodels in each line that follows. ... This mentions a "list if submodels" which clearly can be multiple calls to various submodels. The example reinforces this notion: [Add Submodel] | Submodel_name Mode Bus_Hold_1 Non-Driving | Adds the electrical characteristics of | [Submodel] Bus_Hold_1 for receiver or | high-Z mode only. Dynamic_clamp_1 All | Adds the Dynmanic_clamp_1 model for | all modes of operation. where we have calls to two submodels from one [Add Submodel] keyword. This should hopefully settle the question. I believe no further action is necessary. I am sorry for any inconvenience this discussion may have caused, this is a prime example for the good old saying: "If all else fails, read the manual." Arpad =========================================================================== |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:46:36 -0700 From: "Mirmak, Michael" Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD83 - Series Element Clarifications All, BIRD83 is enclosed for review. - - Michael Mirmak Intel Corp. Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum ************************************************************************ ***** ************************************************************************ ***** ************************************************************************ ***** BUFFER ISSUE RESOLUTION DOCUMENT (BIRD) BIRD ID#: 83 ISSUE TITLE: Series Element Clarifications REQUESTOR: Michael Mirmak, Intel Corporation DATE SUBMITTED: September 17, 2003 DATE REVISED: DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: Pending ************************************************************************ ***** ************************************************************************ ***** STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: Ambiguous language in the IBIS 4.0 specification can lead to mutually exclusive but text-compliant descriptions of series element behaviors. The issues are: a) the presence of the function_table_group column under the [Series Pin Mapping] keyword implies that a series switch is being described. However, the presence of the function_table_group column does not require the use of the [Series Switch Group] keyword to describe the corresponding series switch groupings b) the language of [Series MOSFET] does not explicitly require that the [Series MOSFET] keyword be used before each occurrence of the Vds subparameter and I-V table data. This implies that both a single [Series MOSFET] keyword instance or multiple instances may be used to describe the same device regardless of the number of I-V tables present To address these issues, two changes are proposed: a) if "function_table_group" is present under [Series Pin Mapping], the [Series Switch Groups] keyword is required b) the [Series MOSFET] keyword is explicitly required before each Vds subparameter The changes noted above are consistent with the behavior of version 3.2.9 of the IBIS Golden Parser. Several minor grammatical issues have also been resolved in the proposed text below. Note that the examples have been omitted. ************************************************************************ **** STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: Changes are marked with the * characters. |======================================================================= ====== | Keyword: [Series Pin Mapping] | Required: No | Description: Used to associate two pins joined by a series model. | Sub-Params: pin_2, model_name, function_table_group | Usage Rules: Enter only series pin pairs. The first column, [Series Pin | Mapping], contains the series pin for which input impedances | are measured. The second column, pin_2, contains the other | connection of the series model. Each pin must match the pin | names declared previously in the [Pin] section of the IBIS | file. The third column, model_name, associates the Series or | Series_switch model for the pair of pins in the first two | columns. The fourth column, function_table_group, contains | an alphanumeric designator string to associate those sets of | Series_switch pins that are switched together. | | Each line must contain either three or four columns. When | using four columns, the header function_table_group must be | listed. | | One possible application is to model crossbar switches where | the straight through On paths are indicated by one designator | and the cross over On paths are indicated by another | designator. If the model referenced is a Series model, then | the function_table_group entry is omitted. | *| Note that, if the function_table_group entry is used, the *| [Series Switch Groups] keyword must be present and contain *| switching combination definitions corresponding to the *| function group entries. | The column length limits are: | [Series Pin Mapping] 5 characters max | pin_2 5 characters max | model_name 20 characters max | function_table_group 20 characters max | | Other Notes: If the model_name is for a non-symmetrical series model, | then the order of the pins is important. The [Series Pin | Mapping] and pin_2 entries must be in the columns that | correspond with Pin 1 and Pin 2 of the referenced model. | | This mapping covers only the series paths between pins. The | package parasitics and any other elements such as additional | capacitance or clamping circuitry are defined by the | model_name that is referenced in the [Pin] keyword. The | model_names under the [Pin] keyword that are also referenced | by the [Series Pin Mapping] keyword may include any legal | model or reserved model except for Series and Series_switch | models. Normally the pins will reference a [Model] whose | Model_type is 'Terminator'. For example, a Series_switch | model may contain Terminator models on EACH of the pins to | describe both the capacitance on each pin and some clamping | circuitry that may exist on each pin. In a similar manner, | Input, I/O or Output models may exist on each pin of a Series | model that is serving as a differential termination. | [...] | |======================================================================= ====== | Keyword: [Series Switch Groups] *| Required: Yes, if function_table_group is used under *| [Series Pin Mapping] | Description: Used to define allowable switching combinations of series | switches described using the names of the groups in the | [Series Pin Mapping] keyword function_table_group column. | Sub-Params: On, Off | Usage Rules: Each state line contains an allowable configuration. A | typical state line will start with 'On' followed by all of the | on-state group names or an 'Off' followed by all of the | off-state group names. Only one of 'On' or 'Off' is required | since the undefined states are presumed to be opposite of the | explicitly defined states. The state line is terminated with | the slash '/', even if it extends over several lines to fit | within the 80 character column width restriction. | | The group names in the function_table_group are used to | associate switches whose switching action is synchronized by | a common control function. The first line defines the assumed | (default) state of the set of series switches. Other sets of | states are listed and can be selected through a user interface | or through automatic control. |----------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------ [...] |======================================================================= ====== | Keyword: [Series MOSFET] | Required: Yes, for series MOSFET switches | Description: The data points under this keyword define the I-V tables for | voltages measured at Pin 2 for a given Vds setting. Currents | are considered positive if they flow into Pin 1. Pins 1 and | 2 are listed under the [Series Pin Mapping] keyword under | [Series Pin Mapping] and pin_2 columns, respectively. | Sub-Params: Vds | Usage Rules: The first column contains the voltage value, and the three | remaining columns hold the typical, minimum, and maximum | current values. The four entries, Voltage, I(typ), I(min), | and I(max) must be placed on a single line and must be | separated by at least one white space. | *| All four columns are required under this keyword. However, | data is only required in the typical column. If minimum | and/or maximum current values are not available, the reserved | word "NA" must be used. "NA" can be used for currents in the | typical column, but numeric values MUST be specified for the | first and last voltage points on any I-V table. Each I-V | table must have at least 2, but not more than 100 rows. | | Other Notes: There is no monotonicity requirement. However the model | supplier should realize that it may not be possible to derive | a behavioral model from non-monotonic data. | | | Table Current | -------> Ids | + Vds - | | Vcc | | g | __|__ | ----- NMOS | Pin 1 | | Pin 2 | <---+ +---> + Voltage = Vcc - Vs | d |_____| s | PMOS --+-- Vs | | g | GND - | *| Either of the FETs could be removed (or have zero current *| contribution). Thus this model covers all four conditions, | off, single NMOS, single PMOS and parallel NMOS/PMOS. | | Voltage = Table Voltage = Vtable = Vcc - Vs | Ids = Table Current for a given Vcc and Vds | | Internal Logic that is generally referenced to the power rail | is used to set the NMOS MOSFET switch to its 'ON' state. | Internal logic likewise referenced to ground is used to set | the PMOS device to its 'ON' state if the PMOS device is | present. Thus the [Voltage Range] settings provide the | assumed gate voltages. If the [POWER Clamp Reference] exists, | it overrides the [Voltage Range] value. The table entries are | actually Vgs values of the NMOS device and Vcc - Vgs values of | the PMOS device, if present. The polarity conventions are | identical with those used for other tables that are | referenced to power rails. Thus the voltage column can be | viewed as a table defining the source voltages Vs according to | the convention: Vtable = Vcc - Vs. This convention remains | even without the NMOS device. | | If the switch is used in an application such as interfacing | between 3.3 V and 5.0 V logic, the Vcc may be biased at a | voltage (such as 4.3 V) that is different from a power rail | voltage (such as 5.0 V) used to create the model. Just | readjust the [Voltage Range] entries (or [POWER Clamp | Reference] entries). | | One fundamental assumption in the MOSFET switch model is that | it operates in a symmetrical manner. The tables and | expressions are given assuming that Vd >= Vs. If Vd < Vs, | then apply the same relationships under the assumption that | the source and drain nodes are interchanged. A consequence of | this assumption is that the Vds subparameter is constrained to | values Vds > 0. It is assumed that with Vds = 0 the currents | will be 0 mA. A further consequence of this assumption that | would be embedded in the analysis process is that the voltage | table is based on the side of the model with the lowest | voltage (and that side is defined as the source). Thus the | analysis must allow current to flow in both directions, as | would occur due to reflections when the switch is connected in | series with an unterminated transmission line. | | The model data is used to create an On state relationship | between the actual drain to source current, ids, and the | actual drain to source voltage, vds: | | ids = f(vds). | | This functional relationship depends on the actual source | voltage Vs and can be expressed in terms of the corresponding | table currents associated with Vs (and expressed as a function | of Vtable). | | If only one [Series MOSFET] table is supplied (as a first | order approximation), the functional relationship is assumed | to be linearly related to the table drain to source current, | Ids, for the given Vds subparameter value and located at the | existing gate to source voltage value Vtable. This table | current is denoted as Ids(Vtable, Vds). The functional | relationship becomes: | | ids = Ids(Vtable, Vds) * vds/Vds. | *| More than one [Series MOSFET] table under a [Model] keyword *| is permitted. However, the usage of this data is simulator *| dependent. Each table must begin with the [Series MOSFET] *| keyword and Vds subparameter. Each successive *| [Series MOSFET] table must have a different subparameter *| value for Vds. The number of tables for any specific *| [Model] must not exceed 100. | | C_comp values are ignored for [Series MOSFET] models. ************************************************************************ ***** ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: ************************************************************************ ***** ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: ************************************************************************ ***** |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:44:56 +0200 From: "Lior Dagan" Subject: [IBIS-Users] ground bounce and vdd drop Can anyone email me either a link to a working IBIS file with ground bounce? Can anyone also show tell me of what considerations must be taken into account, when trying to use the ground bounce and/or VDD drop, since adding complexity and bug probability for no reason is not something that I want to do. Thanks, Lior |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:11:59 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Third Call for Papers, IBIS Summit at PCB East - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT THIRD CALL FOR PARTICIPATION & PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2003, 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Location: North East Systems Associates 5 Lan Drive Westford, MA 01886 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: If your company would be interested in sponsoring this event, please contact Lynne Green . Sponsorship is available for the lunch and coffee breaks. Benefits to sponsors include formal recognition at the meeting and mention in the Calls for Papers and meeting minutes. Your financial support strengthens the organization by allowing IBIS to focus resources on industry activities rather than raising money, and you will receive generous thanks for your support. PCB Design Conference East October 20 - 24, 2003 Holiday Inn Boxborough 242 Adams Place Boxborough, MA 01719 See for more information. BACKGROUND PCB East is the premier East Coast event dedicated exclusively to PCB design and engineering professionals. Topics of current interest to the EIA IBIS Open Forum are addressed at PCB East. This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations are expected to be available and archived in an electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the meeting. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate in the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Attending in Person? Or by Phone? Send to: Kathy Breda (breda@nesa.com). CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have experiences of interest to the IBIS modeling community. In the past, these have included demonstrations of modeling techniques, explanations of behavioral algorithms and descriptions of difficulties encountered in specific applications. Of particular interest are topics related to model correlation, modeling building experiences and comparisons to other modeling methods. Presentations may be addressed to any and all levels of IBIS experience, from beginning to advanced. Format of Presentation: LCD Projection with Windows laptop. Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. Electronic presentations should be made available by October 14, 2003 for uploading and copying to the presentation laptop. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Lynne Green (lgreen@cadence.com) AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, breaks, and a luncheon (which will be provided). This will be developed as presentation proposals are received. The following individuals have signed up to present at the summit (presentation titles are tentative). * IBIS Chair's Report, Michael Mirmak (Intel Corp) * IBIS Quality Update, Barry Katz/Bob Haller (SiSoft) * ICM 1.0 Update, Michael Mirmak (Intel Corp) * TBD (modeling), Tim Coyle (Sun) * Ramp Keyword in IBIS 4.1, Lynne Green (Cadence Design Systems) LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS See for travel directions, hotels and other information. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:06:13 -0400 From: Perry Qu Subject: [IBIS-Users] static/dynamic overshoot/undershoot definition Hi, Can someone let me know in IBIS spec, where the static/dynamic overshoot/undershoot is defined ? At packaging pins or at die ? Thanks Perry - -- Perry Qu Design & Qualification | 600 March Road Alcatel Canada | Ottawa, ON K2K 2E6, Canada DID: (613) 7846720 | FAX: (613) 5993642 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:51:41 +0200 From: "Lior Dagan" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Power clamp. Hello, I have a question: I wish to conduct power clamp simulation, and for making it simple, I'll do a very small simulation: VCC=2.7V I have five sweep points: 0V, 1.35V, 2.7V, 4.05V 5.4V. The results (current measures) are: 0 0 0 1.5e-06 5E-3 My question is: Is the stimulus valid? should the reults be in their values, or relative to vdd? i.e. What should the section from the IBIS file look like? 0 0 1.350E+0 0 2.70E+0 0 4.050E+0 1.50E-6 5.40E0+0 5E-03 or: - -2.70E+0 0 - -1.350E+0 0 2.70E+0 0 4.050E+0 1.50E-6 5.40E+0 5E-03 Thanks |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:12:33 -0700 From: "Tom Dagostino" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Power clamp. Lior It is hard to say if your results are valid without having an understanding of the buffer in question. These results could be reasonable but are not common for most of the buffers I've worked with. Your PowerClamp table should look like this assuming you are filling in the typical parameters only in the model: - -2.70 5E-3 NA NA - -1.35 1.5E-6 NA NA 0.00 0.00 NA NA 1.35 0.00 NA NA 2.70 0.00 NA NA Tom Dagostino Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 2926 SE Yamhill St. Device Modeling Division Portland, OR 97214 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-430-1065 tom@teraspeed.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of Lior Dagan Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 2:52 AM To: Ibis-Users Subject: [IBIS-Users] Power clamp. Hello, I have a question: I wish to conduct power clamp simulation, and for making it simple, I'll do a very small simulation: VCC=2.7V I have five sweep points: 0V, 1.35V, 2.7V, 4.05V 5.4V. The results (current measures) are: 0 0 0 1.5e-06 5E-3 My question is: Is the stimulus valid? should the reults be in their values, or relative to vdd? i.e. What should the section from the IBIS file look like? 0 0 1.350E+0 0 2.70E+0 0 4.050E+0 1.50E-6 5.40E0+0 5E-03 or: - -2.70E+0 0 - -1.350E+0 0 2.70E+0 0 4.050E+0 1.50E-6 5.40E+0 5E-03 Thanks |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:43:48 -0700 From: "Mirmak, Michael" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Agenda, IBIS Open Forum Teleconference for October 3, 2003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C383C7.3F92387D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda=20 for October 3, 2003=20 =20 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode=20 1-916-356-2663 2 643-9661 =20 =20 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM US Pacific Time. When calling=20 into the meeting, provide the reservation number and passcode at=20 the automated prompts. If asked by an operator, please request=20 to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak.=20 =20 For international calling information, please contact Michael Mirmak. =20 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Mirmak=20 =20 - Intros of New Participants, Meeting Quorum Mirmak=20 - Call for Patents (IBIS 4.0, 4.1, ICM) Mirmak=20 - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Mirmak=20 - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Mirmak=20 September 12, 2003 Open Forum Minutes=20 - Miscellany/Announcements All=20 - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All=20 - New Models Available, Library Update Leventhal=20 - Opens for New Issues All=20 =20 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions=20 =20 International/External Progress=20 - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuits=20 Electromagnetic Model Proposal (IEC 93/67/NP=20 IBIS and EMC Simulation) Perrin/Peters - JEDEC Committee Report Green=20 =20 PCB East Summit Planning Mirmak=20 =20 DesignCon 2004 Summit Planning Mirmak=20 =20 IBIS Version 4.0 Parser Status Mirmak/Peters =20 IBIS Quality Committee Report Katz/Green=20 =20 IBIS Model Review Committee Green=20 =20 S2IBIS3 Status Varma/Ross=20 =20 ICM Specification and Parser Status Green/Mirmak/Ross =20 New Administrative Issues All=20 =20 8:45 Technical Discussion=20 =20 Driver Schedule Issue Update Muranyi=20 =20 BIRD83: Series Element Clarification Mirmak, All=20 =20 IBIS Version 4.1 Discussion All=20 - [Ramp]/C_comp BIRD status=20 =20 IBISCHK4 Status Ross/Angulo=20 =20 BUG80 - [Model Selector] and [Diff Pin] Ordering Angulo=20 - Clarification BIRD required?=20 =20 New Technical Issues All=20 =20 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meeting Plans Mirmak=20 =20 9:55 Sign Off=20 =20 =20 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C383C7.3F92387D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agenda, IBIS Open Forum Teleconference for October 3, = 2003

           &n= bsp;       IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda =
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; for October 3, 2003
 
           &n= bsp;  Bridge Number    Reservation #   = Passcode
           &n= bsp;  1-916-356-2663        = 2          = 643-9661         
 
 All meetings are 8:00 AM = to 9:55 AM US Pacific Time.  When calling
 into the meeting, provide = the reservation number and passcode at
 the automated = prompts.  If asked by an operator, please request
 to join the IBIS Open = Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak.
 
 For international calling = information, please contact Michael Mirmak.
 
 8:00 Check-In, Intros, = Announcements          =          Mirmak
 
      - = Intros of New Participants, Meeting Quorum      = Mirmak
      - = Call for Patents (IBIS 4.0, 4.1, = ICM)           Mirmak =
      - = Membership Update and Treasurers = Report         Mirmak
      - = Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs)  Mirmak
          September = 12, 2003 Open Forum Minutes
      - = Miscellany/Announcements        &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;   All
      - = Press & Web Page = Updates           =              = Huq, All
      - = New Models Available, Library = Update            = Leventhal
      - = Opens for New = Issues           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    All
 
 8:15 Administrative and = Project Discussions
 
      = International/External Progress
      - = IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuits
        Electromagnetic Model = Proposal (IEC 93/67/NP
        IBIS and EMC = Simulation)          &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; Perrin/Peters
      - = JEDEC Committee = Report           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;  Green
 
      = PCB East Summit = Planning           = ;            =    Mirmak
 
      = DesignCon 2004 Summit = Planning           = ;         Mirmak
 
      = IBIS Version 4.0 Parser = Status           &= nbsp;        Mirmak/Peters
 
      = IBIS Quality Committee = Report           &= nbsp;         Katz/Green
 
      = IBIS Model Review = Committee          &nbs= p;            = Green
 
      = S2IBIS3 = Status           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;            = Varma/Ross
 
      = ICM Specification and Parser = Status           &= nbsp;   Green/Mirmak/Ross
 
      = New Administrative = Issues           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp; All
 
 8:45 Technical Discussion =
 
      = Driver Schedule Issue = Update           &= nbsp;          Muranyi =
 
      = BIRD83: Series Element = Clarification          =     Mirmak, All
 
      = IBIS Version 4.1 = Discussion          &nb= sp;            = All
      - = [Ramp]/C_comp BIRD status
 
      = IBISCHK4 = Status           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           = Ross/Angulo
 
      = BUG80 - [Model Selector] and [Diff Pin] Ordering  Angulo
      - = Clarification BIRD required?
 
      = New Technical = Issues           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;      All
 
 9:50 Wrap Up and Next = Meeting = Plans           &n= bsp;        Mirmak
 
 9:55 Sign Off
 
 

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C383C7.3F92387D-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:57:05 +0530 From: lokprakash Subject: [IBIS-Users] series mosfer ibs model This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --Boundary_(ID_EfDsSjMhoxfQ7h+l2OSElA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi could anyone here send me the series mosfet ibs model. Thanks. - --Boundary_(ID_EfDsSjMhoxfQ7h+l2OSElA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi
could anyone here send me the series mosfet ibs model.
 
Thanks.
- --Boundary_(ID_EfDsSjMhoxfQ7h+l2OSElA)-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:25:12 +0530 From: kesavp Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --Boundary_(ID_I+J07l8dzJbwLIMT+hkL4w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi IBIS experts, I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) range in small step size. S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size. Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for small step size other than default value. Thanks, Kesav. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003 - --Boundary_(ID_I+J07l8dzJbwLIMT+hkL4w) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi IBIS experts,

I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) range in small step size.

S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size.

Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for small step size other than default value.
 
Thanks,
Kesav.
 

---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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- --Boundary_(ID_I+J07l8dzJbwLIMT+hkL4w)-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:20:21 -0400 From: "Ambrish Varma" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C3861F.78AE1A90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kesav, I am not sure if sweepstep is voltage dependant. Should work for all curves. - -Ambrish. Ambrish K Varma akvarma@ncsu.edu North Carolina State University ph(919)513-2015, fax(919)515-2285 - -----Original Message----- From: kesavp [mailto:kesavp@spikeindia.com] Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 12:10 AM To: Ambrish Varma Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Hi! Thanks for immediate reply.I have done for the ground clamp,but I am not able to do for the Power clamp,Pullup,Pulldown,because of the different voltages.Anyhave thanks for the reply.Please keep in touch. Thanks, Regards, Kesav. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ambrish Varma To: 'kesavp' Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Kesav, I don't think that the spec recommends any specific step size. To change the step size to a different value - alter the SWEEP_STEP_DEFAULT value in s2idflt.h file in the /src directory and recompile the code. Hope that helps. - -Ambrish. Ambrish K Varma akvarma@ncsu.edu North Carolina State University ph(919)513-2015, fax(919)515-2285 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of kesavp Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 10:55 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Hi IBIS experts, I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) range in small step size. S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size. Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for small step size other than default value. Thanks, Kesav. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003 - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C3861F.78AE1A90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kesav,

I am not sure if sweepstep is voltage dependant.

Should work for = all curves.

-Ambrish.

 

Ambrish K Varma
akvarma@ncsu.edu
North = Carolina = State = University<= /font>
ph(919)513-2015, fax(919)515-2285

-----Original = Message-----
From: kesavp [mailto:kesavp@spikeindia.com]
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 = 12:10 AM
To: Ambrish Varma
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] = query to ibis forum

 

Hi!=

     = Thanks for immediate reply.I have done for the ground clamp,but I am not = able to do for the Power clamp,Pullup,Pulldown,because of the different voltages.Anyhave thanks for the reply.Please keep in = touch.

 

 

Thanks,

Regards,<= /o:p>

Kesav.

----- Original Message = - -----

To:<= /font> 'kesavp' =

Sent: Monday, September 29, = 2003 9:23 AM

Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum

 

Kesav,=

I don’t = think that the spec recommends any specific step size.

To change the = step size to a different value – alter  the SWEEP_STEP_DEFAULT value in s2idflt.h file in the /src directory and = recompile the code.

 =

Hope that = helps.

-Ambrish.

 =

Ambrish K = Varma
akvarma@ncsu.edu
North = Carolina = State = University<= /font>
ph(919)513-2015, fax(919)515-2285

-----Original = Message-----
From: = owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of kesavp
Sent: = Sunday, September 28, = 2003 10:55 PM
To: = ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] = query to ibis forum

 

Hi IBIS experts,

I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground = clamp and power clamp) range in small step size.

S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to = know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size.

Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for = small step size other than default value.

 

Thanks,

Kesav.

 


- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: = 9/23/2003

- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C3861F.78AE1A90-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:43:59 +0200 From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum This is a multipart message in MIME format. - --=_alternative 0040B02CC1256DB0_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Kesav, I usually do all simulations "by hand". I simulate the curves using the circuit simulator and put the results in the IBIS file. When using s2ibis you can look into the files it generates. There you will see a simulation file where the controlling source is defined. You can change this file and run it yourself with your simulator (Spectre/Spice). I always look at the simulated curves and see where the steep parts are. And I also make an estimation where the normal operating area will be. In this part I take more simulation points. Hope this helps. With kind regards, Erik. Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 kesavp Sent by: owner-ibis-users@eda.org 09/29/03 04:55 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org cc: (bcc: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS) Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Classification: Hi IBIS experts, I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) range in small step size. S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size. Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for small step size other than default value. Thanks, Kesav. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003 - --=_alternative 0040B02CC1256DB0_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hello Kesav,

I usually do all simulations "by hand". I simulate the curves using the circuit simulator and put the results in the IBIS file.

When using s2ibis you can look into the files it generates. There you will see a simulation file where the controlling source is defined. You can change this file and run it yourself with your simulator (Spectre/Spice).

I always look at the simulated curves and see where the steep parts are. And I also make an estimation where the normal operating area will be. In this part I take more simulation points.


Hope this helps.

With kind regards,
Erik.


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334







kesavp <kesavp@spikeindia.com>

Sent by:
owner-ibis-users@eda.org

09/29/03 04:55 AM

       
        To:        ibis-users@eda.org
        cc:        (bcc: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS)
        Subject:        [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum

        Classification:        




Hi IBIS experts,

I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) range in small step size.

S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size.

Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for small step size other than default value.
 
Thanks,
Kesav.
 

- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003

- --=_alternative 0040B02CC1256DB0_=-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:59:08 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C386A2.9DC149A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kesav, =20 IBIS doesn't specify or recommend any voltage or time step size for the tables. You need to decide on that for yourself. =20 However, note that you do not have to evenly space the points along the x-axis in the tables. This is useful for making smaller step sizes in the regions where your curves change fast. =20 Be careful when you use s2ibis, if I am not mistake, it can only give you evenly spaced x-axis for the tables. =20 Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On = Behalf Of kesavp Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Hi IBIS experts, I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground = clamp and power clamp) range in small step size. S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to = know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size. Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for = small step size other than default value. =20 Thanks, Kesav. =20 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C386A2.9DC149A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kesav,
 
IBIS doesn't=20 specify or recommend any voltage or time step size
for the=20 tables.  You need to decide on that for=20 yourself.
 
However,=20 note that you do not have to evenly space the points
along the=20 x-axis in the tables.  This is useful for = making
smaller step=20 sizes in the regions where your curves change
fast.
 
Be careful=20 when you use s2ibis, if I am not mistake, it can
only=20 give you evenly spaced x-axis = for the=20 tables.
 
Arpad=20 Muranyi
Intel=20 Corporation
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of = kesavp
Sent:=20 Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM
To:=20 ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis=20 forum

Hi IBIS experts,

I am interested = to capture=20 part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) = range in=20 small step size.

S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step = size. I=20 would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step=20 size.

Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI = curves=20 for small step size other than default value.
 
Thanks,
Kesav.
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified = Virus=20 Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: = 6.0.521 /=20 Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C386A2.9DC149A0-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:28:56 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Hello, Kesav, You can simulate more points (1000-2000 points usually works well) and then pick the best points based on value of the second derivative (more points at rapidly changing slope). This algorithm has been incorporated in a number of tools, including SpecctraQuest/Model Integrity from Cadence. Best regards, Lynne Dr. Lynne Green Senior Member of Consulting Staff Cadence Design Systems, Inc. "All the world's an analog stage, whereon digital plays bit parts." Fred Field, Hughes Aircraft - -----Original Message----- From: kesavp [mailto:kesavp@spikeindia.com] Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Hi IBIS experts, I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) range in small step size. S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size. Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for small step size other than default value. Thanks, Kesav. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:23:26 +0530 From: kesavp Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --Boundary_(ID_T3RegocI6TGNktKEtYy6sQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Arpad/Eric, Thank you for your suggestion. I changed the step size manually at the region of fast rate of change in the ground clamp curves maintaining the step sizes same for all the process corners (as mentioned by Erik), it is working fine. However when I tried the same on power clamp curves the s2ibis2 did not read the power clamp data. This may have happened as the sweep ranges for different process corners are different and the step sizes varies for different process corners though I am maintaining the same step size at the region of fast rate of change, but the extreme values of voltages change hence in order to cover +Vcc to +2Vcc range for each process corner I had to give different step sizes. May be because of this s2ibis2 may not be finding the voltage ranges with the same step size (common for all the three process corners). Any suggestions on how to overcome this problem. Thanking you, - --Kesav. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Muranyi, Arpad To: ibis-users@eda.org Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Kesav, IBIS doesn't specify or recommend any voltage or time step size for the tables. You need to decide on that for yourself. However, note that you do not have to evenly space the points along the x-axis in the tables. This is useful for making smaller step sizes in the regions where your curves change fast. Be careful when you use s2ibis, if I am not mistake, it can only give you evenly spaced x-axis for the tables. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ============================================================== -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of kesavp Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Hi IBIS experts, I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) range in small step size. S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size. Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for small step size other than default value. Thanks, Kesav. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003 - --Boundary_(ID_T3RegocI6TGNktKEtYy6sQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi Arpad/Eric,
 
               Thank you for your suggestion. I changed the step size manually at the region of fast rate of change in the ground clamp curves maintaining the step sizes same for all the process corners (as mentioned by Erik), it is working fine.
 
However when I tried the same on power clamp curves the s2ibis2 did not read the power clamp data. This may have happened as the sweep ranges for different process corners are different and the step sizes varies for different process corners though I am maintaining the same step size at the region of fast rate of change, but the extreme values of voltages change hence in order to cover +Vcc to +2Vcc range for each process corner I had to give different step sizes. May be because of this s2ibis2 may not be finding the voltage ranges with the same step size (common for all the three process corners).
 
Any suggestions on how to overcome this problem.
 
Thanking you,
--Kesav.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:29 PM
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum

Kesav,
 
IBIS doesn't specify or recommend any voltage or time step size
for the tables.  You need to decide on that for yourself.
 
However, note that you do not have to evenly space the points
along the x-axis in the tables.  This is useful for making
smaller step sizes in the regions where your curves change
fast.
 
Be careful when you use s2ibis, if I am not mistake, it can
only give you evenly spaced x-axis for the tables.
 
Arpad Muranyi
Intel Corporation
==============================================================
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of kesavp
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum

Hi IBIS experts,

I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) range in small step size.

S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size.

Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for small step size other than default value.
 
Thanks,
Kesav.
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003
- --Boundary_(ID_T3RegocI6TGNktKEtYy6sQ)-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:13:26 +0200 From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum This is a multipart message in MIME format. - --=_alternative 0027EBB5C1256DB1_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Kesav, I am not sure if I understand your problem. Are you using different time steps for your min/typ/max tables? These values have to be put into one table with a common "x-axis" (sweep range). So the time steps cannot be different. I can understand that s2ibis is not ables to put these data into one table in this case. So I suggest that you find a region that covers the fast regions of all three curves where you increase the datapoint density to a suitable value. With kind regards, Erik. Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 kesavp Sent by: owner-ibis-users@eda.org 09/30/03 06:53 AM To: "Muranyi, Arpad" Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 cc: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Classification: Hi Arpad/Eric, Thank you for your suggestion. I changed the step size manually at the region of fast rate of change in the ground clamp curves maintaining the step sizes same for all the process corners (as mentioned by Erik), it is working fine. However when I tried the same on power clamp curves the s2ibis2 did not read the power clamp data. This may have happened as the sweep ranges for different process corners are different and the step sizes varies for different process corners though I am maintaining the same step size at the region of fast rate of change, but the extreme values of voltages change hence in order to cover +Vcc to +2Vcc range for each process corner I had to give different step sizes. May be because of this s2ibis2 may not be finding the voltage ranges with the same step size (common for all the three process corners). Any suggestions on how to overcome this problem. Thanking you, - --Kesav. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Muranyi, Arpad To: ibis-users@eda.org Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Kesav, IBIS doesn't specify or recommend any voltage or time step size for the tables. You need to decide on that for yourself. However, note that you do not have to evenly space the points along the x-axis in the tables. This is useful for making smaller step sizes in the regions where your curves change fast. Be careful when you use s2ibis, if I am not mistake, it can only give you evenly spaced x-axis for the tables. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ============================================================== - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of kesavp Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Hi IBIS experts, I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) range in small step size. S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size. Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for small step size other than default value. Thanks, Kesav. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003 - --=_alternative 0027EBB5C1256DB1_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hello Kesav,


I am not sure if I understand your problem. Are you using different time steps for your min/typ/max tables? These values have to be put into one table with a common "x-axis" (sweep range). So the time steps cannot be different. I can understand that s2ibis is not ables to put these data into one table in this case.

So I suggest that you find a region that covers the fast regions of all three curves where you increase the datapoint density to a suitable value.


With kind regards,
Erik.

Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334







kesavp <kesavp@spikeindia.com>

Sent by:
owner-ibis-users@eda.org

09/30/03 06:53 AM

       
        To:        "Muranyi, Arpad" <arpad.muranyi@intel.com>
Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
        cc:        ibis-users@eda.org
        Subject:        Re: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum

        Classification:        




Hi Arpad/Eric,
 
               Thank you for your suggestion. I changed the step size manually at the region of fast rate of change in the ground clamp curves maintaining the step sizes same for all the process corners (as mentioned by Erik), it is working fine.
 
However when I tried the same on power clamp curves the s2ibis2 did not read the power clamp data. This may have happened as the sweep ranges for different process corners are different and the step sizes varies for different process corners though I am maintaining the same step size at the region of fast rate of change, but the extreme values of voltages change hence in order to cover +Vcc to +2Vcc range for each process corner I had to give different step sizes. May be because of this s2ibis2 may not be finding the voltage ranges with the same step size (common for all the three process corners).
 
Any suggestions on how to overcome this problem.
 
Thanking you,
--Kesav.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Muranyi, Arpad
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:29 PM
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum

Kesav,
 
IBIS doesn't specify or recommend any voltage or time step size
for the tables.  You need to decide on that for yourself.
 
However, note that you do not have to evenly space the points
along the x-axis in the tables.  This is useful for making
smaller step sizes in the regions where your curves change
fast.
 
Be careful when you use s2ibis, if I am not mistake, it can
only give you evenly spaced x-axis for the tables.
 
Arpad Muranyi
Intel Corporation
==============================================================
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of kesavp
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum
Hi IBIS experts,

I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power clamp) range in small step size.

S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size.

Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for small step size other than default value.
 
Thanks,
Kesav.
 

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