From: owner-ibis-users@ (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #32 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@ Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@ Precedence: bulk ibis-users Tuesday, November 4 2003 Volume 01 : Number 032 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:11:58 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38765.311E9D84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kesav, =20 I am sorry, but I am not a user of s2ibis, so I can't help you with your question. Hopefully someone else could answer them on this list. =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - -----Original Message----- From: kesavp [mailto:kesavp@spikeindia.com] Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:53 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad; erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Cc: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Hi Arpad/Eric, =20 Thank you for your suggestion. I changed the step size = manually at the region of fast rate of change in the ground clamp curves = maintaining the step sizes same for all the process corners (as = mentioned by Erik), it is working fine.=20 =20 However when I tried the same on power clamp curves the s2ibis2 did not = read the power clamp data. This may have happened as the sweep ranges = for different process corners are different and the step sizes varies = for different process corners though I am maintaining the same step size = at the region of fast rate of change, but the extreme values of voltages = change hence in order to cover +Vcc to +2Vcc range for each process = corner I had to give different step sizes. May be because of this = s2ibis2 may not be finding the voltage ranges with the same step size = (common for all the three process corners).=20 =20 Any suggestions on how to overcome this problem. =20 Thanking you, - --Kesav. =20 =20 - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Muranyi, Arpad =20 To: ibis-users@eda.org=20 Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Kesav, =20 IBIS doesn't specify or recommend any voltage or time step size for the tables. You need to decide on that for yourself. =20 However, note that you do not have to evenly space the points along the x-axis in the tables. This is useful for making smaller step sizes in the regions where your curves change fast. =20 Be careful when you use s2ibis, if I am not mistake, it can only give you evenly spaced x-axis for the tables. =20 Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On = Behalf Of kesavp Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum Hi IBIS experts, I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground = clamp and power clamp) range in small step size. S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to = know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size. Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for = small step size other than default value. =20 Thanks, Kesav. =20 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38765.311E9D84 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kesav,
 
I am sorry,=20 but I am not a user of s2ibis, so I can't help you
with your=20 question.  Hopefully someone else could answer = them
on this=20 list.
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
-----Original Message-----
From: kesavp=20 [mailto:kesavp@spikeindia.com]
Sent: Monday, September 29, = 2003 9:53=20 PM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; = erik.van.der.ven@philips.com
Cc:=20 ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis=20 forum

Hi Arpad/Eric,
 
          &nbs= p;   =20 Thank you for your suggestion. I changed the step size manually at = the=20 region of fast rate of change in the ground clamp curves maintaining the = step=20 sizes same for all the process corners (as mentioned by Erik), it is = working=20 fine.
 
However when I tried the same on power = clamp curves=20 the s2ibis2 did not read the power clamp data. This may have happened as = the=20 sweep ranges for different process corners are different and the step = sizes=20 varies for different process corners though I am maintaining the same = step=20 size at the region of fast rate of change, but the = extreme values of=20 voltages change hence in order to cover +Vcc to +2Vcc range for each = process=20 corner I had to give different step sizes. May be because of=20 this s2ibis2 may not be finding the voltage ranges with = the same=20 step size (common for all the three process corners).
 
Any suggestions on how to overcome this = problem.
 
Thanking you,
--Kesav.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Monday, September 29, = 2003 9:29=20 PM
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query = to ibis=20 forum

Kesav,
 
IBIS=20 doesn't specify or recommend any voltage or time step = size
for the=20 tables.  You need to decide on that for=20 yourself.
 
However,=20 note that you do not have to evenly space the = points
along the=20 x-axis in the tables.  This is useful for = making
smaller=20 step sizes in the regions where your curves change
fast.
 
Be careful=20 when you use s2ibis, if I am not mistake, it can
only=20 give you evenly spaced x-axis = for the=20 tables.
 
Arpad Muranyi
Intel = Corporation
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of = kesavp
Sent:=20 Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM
To:=20 ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis=20 forum

Hi IBIS experts,

I am = interested to=20 capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power = clamp)=20 range in small step size.

S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or = 0.1 V=20 step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific = step=20 size.

Could any one please let me know how to go about making = VI curves=20 for small step size other than default value.
 
Thanks,
Kesav.
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified = Virus=20 Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: = 6.0.521=20 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date:=20 9/23/2003
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38765.311E9D84-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:06:50 -0700 From: "Mirmak, Michael" Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C387AF.E9AF6F08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, The following proposed BIRD, number 84, is submitted on behalf of Arpad=20 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KioqKioqKioqDQo= - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C387AF.E9AF6F08-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:40:48 -0700 From: "Beal, Weston" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications Arpad, Thanks for doing this work. It helps get everyone working to the same spec. It is still a bit ambiguous to me what happens when a simulator stimulus edge occurs before a delay_off time. For example, if my driver schedule specifies a rise_on_delay of 1ns and a rise_off_delay of 15ns and the high pulse time from my simulator is 10ns. Does the model switch to a low state 10ns after the rising edge or 15ns after the rising edge? I would expect it to switch low at 10ns and I think (but it's a bit ambiguous) that "if they were not already turned ON and OFF, respectively, by another event" means that the simulator stimulus falling edge would cause the model to switch low. Is that how you interpret it and think that was the original intent? thanks, Weston - -----Original Message----- From: Mirmak, Michael [mailto:michael.mirmak@intel.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:07 PM To: ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications All, The following proposed BIRD, number 84, is submitted on behalf of Arpad Muranyi of Intel Corporation. - - Michael Mirmak Intel Corporation Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:53:22 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications Weston, Having answered a few calls and interrupts and coming back to my message, I realized that the answer to the question at the very end should be that the definition of "event" according to BIRD84 means that the timer DOES get reset by the falling edge in that last hypothetical case. The 10 ns pulse and the 15 ns delay essentially creates an over clocked situation, so the output would end up high all the time (not switching). Sorry for the momentary confusion... Arpad =================================================================== - -----Original Message----- From: Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:12 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications Weston, Thanks for your comment and question. I have to ask you a question before I can answer yours. What is in the Fall_on/off_dly parameters in your example? NA or 0? If they are both NA, then there are no "events" generated by a falling edge stimulus. Having said that, using your numbers the rising edge will turn on the pullup 1 ns after the stimulus went high and at the same time turn off the pulldown. Using the same rising edge stimulus, the 15 ns rise off delay parameter will turn off your pullup 15 ns after this rising edge stimulus went high, and at the same time turn on the pulldown. Nothing will happen until the next rising edge stimulus arrives. The falling edge stimulus is ineffective. On the other hand, the situation would be different if there was a zero in the Fall_on_dly (or Fall_off_dly) parameter. Note, however, that it doesn't make sense to use zero for both Fall_on and Fall_off parameters at the same time!!! Also note that there are only 5 combinations of NAs and numbers which are permitted by the spec. For this reason, the next two conditions are hypothetical, but I will go through them to make the point clear. Let's see what would happen if the Fall_on_dly was zero, and the Fall_off_dly still an NA: The pullup would turn on 1 ns after the first rising stimulus and at the same time the pulldown would be turned off. The falling edge stimulus would immediately turn off the pullup and turn on the pulldown (at 10 ns) because of the 0 delay in the Fall_on_dly parameter. The 15 ns off delay in the Rise_off_dly parameter would just redo this same thing, but since the "another event", i.e. the falling edge stimulus already did that, nothing would happen at 15 ns. Now, if the Fall_on was NA and the Fall_off zero, the pullup would turn on 1 ns after the first rising edge stimulus, and the pulldown would be turned off at the same time. The falling edge stimulus would immediately want to turn on the pullup and turn off the pulldown, but the "another event", i.e. the previous rising edge stimulus already did that, so nothing will happen at 10 ns. However, the 15 ns Rise_off delay is still ticking, so at 15 ns after the first rising edge stimulus the pullup will be turned off and the pulldown will be turned on. Now that I think of the BIRD I just wrote, I wonder whether the definition of "event" should mean that the timer gets reset by the falling edge in this last case or not. I have to think about that. Other than that, does this answer your question? Thanks, Arpad ================================================================================== |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:11:49 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications Weston, Thanks for your comment and question. I have to ask you a question before I can answer yours. What is in the Fall_on/off_dly parameters in your example? NA or 0? If they are both NA, then there are no "events" generated by a falling edge stimulus. Having said that, using your numbers the rising edge will turn on the pullup 1 ns after the stimulus went high and at the same time turn off the pulldown. Using the same rising edge stimulus, the 15 ns rise off delay parameter will turn off your pullup 15 ns after this rising edge stimulus went high, and at the same time turn on the pulldown. Nothing will happen until the next rising edge stimulus arrives. The falling edge stimulus is ineffective. On the other hand, the situation would be different if there was a zero in the Fall_on_dly (or Fall_off_dly) parameter. Note, however, that it doesn't make sense to use zero for both Fall_on and Fall_off parameters at the same time!!! Also note that there are only 5 combinations of NAs and numbers which are permitted by the spec. For this reason, the next two conditions are hypothetical, but I will go through them to make the point clear. Let's see what would happen if the Fall_on_dly was zero, and the Fall_off_dly still an NA: The pullup would turn on 1 ns after the first rising stimulus and at the same time the pulldown would be turned off. The falling edge stimulus would immediately turn off the pullup and turn on the pulldown (at 10 ns) because of the 0 delay in the Fall_on_dly parameter. The 15 ns off delay in the Rise_off_dly parameter would just redo this same thing, but since the "another event", i.e. the falling edge stimulus already did that, nothing would happen at 15 ns. Now, if the Fall_on was NA and the Fall_off zero, the pullup would turn on 1 ns after the first rising edge stimulus, and the pulldown would be turned off at the same time. The falling edge stimulus would immediately want to turn on the pullup and turn off the pulldown, but the "another event", i.e. the previous rising edge stimulus already did that, so nothing will happen at 10 ns. However, the 15 ns Rise_off delay is still ticking, so at 15 ns after the first rising edge stimulus the pullup will be turned off and the pulldown will be turned on. Now that I think of the BIRD I just wrote, I wonder whether the definition of "event" should mean that the timer gets reset by the falling edge in this last case or not. I have to think about that. Other than that, does this answer your question? Thanks, Arpad ================================================================================== - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of Beal, Weston Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:41 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications Arpad, Thanks for doing this work. It helps get everyone working to the same spec. It is still a bit ambiguous to me what happens when a simulator stimulus edge occurs before a delay_off time. For example, if my driver schedule specifies a rise_on_delay of 1ns and a rise_off_delay of 15ns and the high pulse time from my simulator is 10ns. Does the model switch to a low state 10ns after the rising edge or 15ns after the rising edge? I would expect it to switch low at 10ns and I think (but it's a bit ambiguous) that "if they were not already turned ON and OFF, respectively, by another event" means that the simulator stimulus falling edge would cause the model to switch low. Is that how you interpret it and think that was the original intent? thanks, Weston - -----Original Message----- From: Mirmak, Michael [mailto:michael.mirmak@intel.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:07 PM To: ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications All, The following proposed BIRD, number 84, is submitted on behalf of Arpad Muranyi of Intel Corporation. - - Michael Mirmak Intel Corporation Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:59:13 -0700 From: "Beal, Weston" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications Arpad, The important bit I get out of this explanation is that the simulator stimulus edge does not constitute and event. An event is a stimulus applied to the scheduled driver as specified by the delays in the driver schedule syntax. I think this is an important definition to include in the BIRD. Thanks, Weston - -----Original Message----- From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:arpad.muranyi@intel.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:12 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications Weston, Thanks for your comment and question. I have to ask you a question before I can answer yours. What is in the Fall_on/off_dly parameters in your example? NA or 0? If they are both NA, then there are no "events" generated by a falling edge stimulus. Having said that, using your numbers the rising edge will turn on the pullup 1 ns after the stimulus went high and at the same time turn off the pulldown. Using the same rising edge stimulus, the 15 ns rise off delay parameter will turn off your pullup 15 ns after this rising edge stimulus went high, and at the same time turn on the pulldown. Nothing will happen until the next rising edge stimulus arrives. The falling edge stimulus is ineffective. On the other hand, the situation would be different if there was a zero in the Fall_on_dly (or Fall_off_dly) parameter. Note, however, that it doesn't make sense to use zero for both Fall_on and Fall_off parameters at the same time!!! Also note that there are only 5 combinations of NAs and numbers which are permitted by the spec. For this reason, the next two conditions are hypothetical, but I will go through them to make the point clear. Let's see what would happen if the Fall_on_dly was zero, and the Fall_off_dly still an NA: The pullup would turn on 1 ns after the first rising stimulus and at the same time the pulldown would be turned off. The falling edge stimulus would immediately turn off the pullup and turn on the pulldown (at 10 ns) because of the 0 delay in the Fall_on_dly parameter. The 15 ns off delay in the Rise_off_dly parameter would just redo this same thing, but since the "another event", i.e. the falling edge stimulus already did that, nothing would happen at 15 ns. Now, if the Fall_on was NA and the Fall_off zero, the pullup would turn on 1 ns after the first rising edge stimulus, and the pulldown would be turned off at the same time. The falling edge stimulus would immediately want to turn on the pullup and turn off the pulldown, but the "another event", i.e. the previous rising edge stimulus already did that, so nothing will happen at 10 ns. However, the 15 ns Rise_off delay is still ticking, so at 15 ns after the first rising edge stimulus the pullup will be turned off and the pulldown will be turned on. Now that I think of the BIRD I just wrote, I wonder whether the definition of "event" should mean that the timer gets reset by the falling edge in this last case or not. I have to think about that. Other than that, does this answer your question? Thanks, Arpad ================================================================================== - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of Beal, Weston Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:41 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications Arpad, Thanks for doing this work. It helps get everyone working to the same spec. It is still a bit ambiguous to me what happens when a simulator stimulus edge occurs before a delay_off time. For example, if my driver schedule specifies a rise_on_delay of 1ns and a rise_off_delay of 15ns and the high pulse time from my simulator is 10ns. Does the model switch to a low state 10ns after the rising edge or 15ns after the rising edge? I would expect it to switch low at 10ns and I think (but it's a bit ambiguous) that "if they were not already turned ON and OFF, respectively, by another event" means that the simulator stimulus falling edge would cause the model to switch low. Is that how you interpret it and think that was the original intent? thanks, Weston - -----Original Message----- From: Mirmak, Michael [mailto:michael.mirmak@intel.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:07 PM To: ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications All, The following proposed BIRD, number 84, is submitted on behalf of Arpad Muranyi of Intel Corporation. - - Michael Mirmak Intel Corporation Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:51:20 +0200 From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Subject: [IBIS-Users] input termination This is a multipart message in MIME format. - --=_alternative 0036607DC1256DB4_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello IBIS experts, I have to model an LVDS input with internal termination. What is the best way to model this internal circuitry? What are the alternatives? And are the above implementations suitable for most IBIS simulators? In an input model Vinl and Vinh can be specified. This does not apply to my case since the absolute values are not of impotance, only the differential voltage matters. Is it enough to specify Vdiff in the [diff pin] keyword? Will Vinl and Vinh be ignored then? (since they also have default values normally). With kind regards, Erik. Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 0036607DC1256DB4_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hello IBIS experts,

I have to model an LVDS input with internal termination.

What is the best way to model this internal circuitry?
What are the alternatives?
And are the above implementations suitable for most IBIS simulators?


In an input model Vinl and Vinh can be specified. This does not apply to my case since the absolute values are not of impotance, only the differential voltage matters. Is it enough to specify Vdiff in the [diff pin] keyword? Will Vinl and Vinh be ignored then? (since they also have default values normally).


With kind regards,
Erik.


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 0036607DC1256DB4_=-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:06:09 -0400 From: Timothy Coyle Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] input termination erik.van.der.ven@philips.com wrote: > > Hello IBIS experts, > > I have to model an LVDS input with internal termination. > > What is the best way to model this internal circuitry? > What are the alternatives? > And are the above implementations suitable for most IBIS simulators? > > In an input model Vinl and Vinh can be specified. This does not apply to my case since the absolute values are not of impotance, only the differential voltage matters. Is it enough to specify Vdiff in the [diff pin] keyword? Will Vinl and Vinh be ignored then? (since they also have default values normally). > > With kind regards, > Erik. > > Ir. Erik van der Ven > Room DB1032 > Business Line Networking Infrastructure > Philips Semiconductors BV > Gerstweg 2 > 6534 AE Nijmegen > The Netherlands > Phone: +31-24-3534334 Hi Erik, First, you have to specify the Vinl and Vinh for your single-ended receiver inputs, or you will get parser warnings. Most IBIS simulators will use the Vdiff value, as the spec states that this shall override the Vinh and Vinl parameters. There's been previous discussion on this list (and SI List I believe) on how to include internal termination. One way is to use a series resistor, but not all IBIS simulators support this. Others have suggested ways to extract the IBIS data with the resistor included. Search the Mentor Graphics website or the IBSI website - Hazem Hegazy did a good presentation on LVDS modeling with internal terminations. Regards, Tim |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:18:14 -0700 From: "Mirmak, Michael" Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Interconnect Modeling (ICM) Specification 1.0 now available The IBIS Open Forum is pleased to announce that the IBIS Interconnect Modeling Specification (ICM) version 1.0 has been approved and is now available for download. The specification text can be found in a variety of formats at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/icm_ver1.0/ The ICM specification permits model authors to represent a wide variety of interconnects, including connectors, cables and packages, in an ASCII-based, human-readable format. Interconnect topologies can be described using implicit (tree) or explicit (nodal) connections, and conductor swathing is supported. Coupling can be represented by RLGC matrices or S-parameter data in Touchstone(R) format. A golden parser is in development. Please feel free to address comments to the IBIS reflector, to me or to any officer of the IBIS Open Forum. - - Michael Mirmak Intel Corporation Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:17:44 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] static/dynamic overshoot/undershoot definition Perry, Try looking up the subparameters "Si_location" and "Timing_location" to see if those would help you figuring out what the answer is. I personally don't know the answer, and don't have the time to look it up for you. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ==================================================================== - -----Original Message----- From: Perry Qu [mailto:perry.qu@alcatel.com] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 6:06 AM To: IBIS group Subject: [IBIS-Users] static/dynamic overshoot/undershoot definition Hi, Can someone let me know in IBIS spec, where the static/dynamic overshoot/undershoot is defined ? At packaging pins or at die ? Thanks Perry - -- Perry Qu Design & Qualification | 600 March Road Alcatel Canada | Ottawa, ON K2K 2E6, Canada DID: (613) 7846720 | FAX: (613) 5993642 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:22:06 +0200 From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Subject: [IBIS-Users] Determination of Ccomp with input network This is a multipart message in MIME format. - --=_alternative 003EB015C1256DB7_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello IBIS expert, I want to determine a value for Ccomp for a differential LVDS input. When I "look" into the input terminals I see a network of resistors and capacitors in front of the input transistors. There are also series resistors present and thus there is capacitance at both sides of these resistors. How should I determine Ccomp? Will this be a good representation of the load behaviour? With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 003EB015C1256DB7_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hello IBIS expert,


I want to determine a value for Ccomp for a differential LVDS input.

When I "look" into the input terminals I see a network of resistors and capacitors in front of the input transistors. There are also series resistors present and thus there is capacitance at both sides of these resistors. How should I determine Ccomp? Will this be a good representation of the load behaviour?


With kind regards,


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 003EB015C1256DB7_=-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:22:50 +0200 From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] input termination This is a multipart message in MIME format. - --=_alternative 00443FBBC1256DB8_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Giovanni, Yes, I have a Spectre netlist with the termination included. I do not use s2ibis. I do not understand how you use s2ibis since it is not suitable for differential signals, and I do not see how it should model the input termination. In your second case: do you use the series model type? As far as I understand from the discussions here it is not implemented in most simulators. Can anyone tell if the [series pin mapping] is implemented in simulation tools? With kind regards, Erik Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 giovanni.abril@ngc.com 10/03/03 03:59 PM To: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2 cc: Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] input termination Classification: Hi Erik, Do you have a spice netlist with the internal termination included? In the past I have modeled this two different ways: In one case I used spice2ibis because I had the internal termination included. In the second case I added a series resistor between the two input pins in my IBIS model. Both ways worked well. Let me know if you have any questions, Gio - -----Original Message----- From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com] Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 2:51 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] input termination Hello IBIS experts, I have to model an LVDS input with internal termination. What is the best way to model this internal circuitry? What are the alternatives? And are the above implementations suitable for most IBIS simulators? In an input model Vinl and Vinh can be specified. This does not apply to my case since the absolute values are not of impotance, only the differential voltage matters. Is it enough to specify Vdiff in the [diff pin] keyword? Will Vinl and Vinh be ignored then? (since they also have default values normally). With kind regards, Erik. Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 - --=_alternative 00443FBBC1256DB8_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hello Giovanni,

Yes, I have a Spectre netlist with the termination included. I do not use s2ibis. I do not understand how you use s2ibis since it is not suitable for differential signals, and I do not see how it should model the input termination.

In your second case: do you use the series model type? As far as I understand from the discussions here it is not implemented in most simulators.

Can anyone tell if the [series pin mapping] is implemented in simulation tools?


With kind regards,
Erik


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334







giovanni.abril@ngc.com

10/03/03 03:59 PM

       
        To:        Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
        cc:        
        Subject:        RE: [IBIS-Users] input termination

        Classification:        




Hi Erik,
 
Do you have a spice netlist with the internal termination included?  In the past I have modeled this two different ways:
In one case I used spice2ibis because I had the internal termination included.
In the second case I added a series resistor between the two input pins in my IBIS model.
Both ways worked well.
 
Let me know if you have any questions,
Gio
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com]
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 2:51 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] input termination

Hello IBIS experts,

I have to model an LVDS input with internal termination.

What is the best way to model this internal circuitry?
What are the alternatives?
And are the above implementations suitable for most IBIS simulators?


In an input model Vinl and Vinh can be specified. This does not apply to my case since the absolute values are not of impotance, only the differential voltage matters. Is it enough to specify Vdiff in the [diff pin] keyword? Will Vinl and Vinh be ignored then? (since they also have default values normally).


With kind regards,
Erik.


Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334

- --=_alternative 00443FBBC1256DB8_=-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:46:21 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?anil=20kumar?= Subject: [IBIS-Users] about package elements Hi ibis experts, I want to know how Pin Package elements are excluded while drawing the I-V and V-t data from an IC by Experimental method(not by Spice models!). regards, anil. ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:09:58 -0600 From: rrwolff@micron.com Subject: [IBIS-Users] [IBIS] Open forum minutes (10/03/03) DATE: 10/09/03 SUBJECT: October 3, 2003 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2003 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Michael LaBonte, Val Mandruson, Hung Pham, Todd Westerhoff Fairchild Semiconductor (Graham Connolly) Hitachi ULSI Systems Kazuyoshi Shoji Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Michael Mirmak*, Arpad Muranyi*, Eric Magnusson LSI Logic Frank Gasparik Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics [Bob Ross], Ian Dodd*, Guy de Burgh, John Angulo*, Mike Donnelly, Weston Beal Micron Technology Randy Wolff Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola (Rick Kingen) National Semiconductor [Milt Schwartz], [Tim Coyle] NEC Electric Corporation (Itsuki Yamada) North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions), Stephanie Goedecke Siemens (& Automotive) AG Eckhard Lenski, Michael Kindij, Burkhard Muller, Katja Koller, Andre Goerisch, Manfred Maurer, Bernard Unger, Amir Motamedi, Hartmut Ibowski, Gerald Bannert Signal Integrity Software Bob Haller, Barry Katz, Doug Burns Sigrity [Raj Raghuram] Synopsys Warren Wong, Edmund Cheng Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher Teraspeed Scott McMorrow, Tom Dagostino, Kevin Simpson, Bob Ross* Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Zuken (& Incases) Michael Schaeder, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2003: Agilent Technologies Herbert Lage Brocade Frank Yuan, Yongrue Yu Conexant Gary Felker EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin EFM Ekkehard Miersch EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, John Fernandez, Simba Julian Fraunhofer IZM Ege Engin Fujitsu Tadashi Arai GEIA (Chris Denham) Independent Kelly Green*, Luca Giacotto Infineon Tech AG Christian Sporrer Marvell Semiconductor Itzik Peleg NetLogic Microsystems Eric Hsu North Carolina State Univ. Ambrish Varma* Plexus Joseph Socha Politechnico de Torino Igor Stievano Qlogic Larry Barnes Sintecs BV Hans Klos, Bob te Nijenhuis SiQual (Rob Hinz) Sun Microsystems Tim Coyle* Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Telephone Number Bridge # Passcode October 21, 2003 TBD October 24, 2003 1-916-356-2663 3 190-3009 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting. When calling into the meeting, provide the reservation number and passcode at the automated prompts. If asked by an operator, please request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak. For international dial-in numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. - -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. CALL FOR PATENTS Michael Mirmak called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS Version 4.0, 4.1 or ICM specifications. No patents were declared. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Michael Mirmak reported that, as a result of recent payments, membership now stands at 27 organizations, with a twenty-eighth member in processing. The new members are reflected in the membership roster on the web site and in the list above. Michael also provided a financial update. Based upon the data from the GEIA for the year through the end of August, the Open Forum revenues are approximately $2000 below budget, due to royalty revenues expected but not received. However, the Open Forum is also approximately $1500 below budgeted expenses for the year. An additional payment to the parser developer to conclude work on IBISCHK4 and additional revenue from a new membership (see above) are expected. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The October 3, 2003 meeting minutes were approved without objection. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Lynne Green announced that she and Arpad Muranyi would be presenting a "webinar" hosted by Cadence Design Systems on October 8. The subject is differential IBIS modeling techniques. Bob Ross mentioned a new book, "Engineering Electromagnetic Compliance" published by Wiley and Sons. Chapter 14 contains significant material on IBIS modeling. More information on the book can be found at: http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0780347439.html PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Michael Mirmak noted that Syed Huq has updated the IBIS web site to list the new Open Forum member companies (see above). NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE No new models received. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES No new issues. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) No update. - - JEDEC Activity Report No update. PCB EAST SUMMIT DISCUSSION Lynne Green has distributed the third call for papers to the PCB East IBIS Summit. Six presentations are planned: the Chair's Report, a presentation from Timothy Coyle on their modeling efforts and a web page proposal, an IBIS Quality Committee report from Robert Haller, a differential buffer update from Arpad Muranyi, and a short ICM example from Michael Mirmak. Luncheon sponsorship is still needed, though. The summit agenda will be published on or around October 14. Presentation materials are due to Lynne Green and Bob Ross by Thursday, October 16. Bob Ross has volunteered to provide format conversion services. DESIGNCON 2004 SUMMIT DISCUSSION Michael Mirmak reported that a new agreement for IBIS Summit support has been received from the IEC. Discussions are planned in the immediate future regarding whether some of the complementary items may be traded for refreshments for the Summit participants. In addition, sponsors are needed for lunches at both PCB East and DesignCon 2004. Open Forum members and participants are encouraged to inquire at their organizations regarding co-sponsorship of the summit. Sponsors will be prominently mentioned in Summit presentations, announcements, and the minutes. IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING AND STATUS Michael Mirmak reported that payments from all parser sponsors have been received by the GEIA. The parser code set will be provided to the sponsors within a week. A test version of IBISCHK4 is available for download: http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/ibischk4_beta A review of the BUG reports still to be addressed was conducted during the Technical Discussion portion of the meeting (see below). IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE Bob Ross reported that meetings continue every two weeks. The last meeting took place on September 23. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE Lynne Green reported that no new models have been received by the committee since the last meeting. S2IBIS3 Ambrish Varma reported that he has completed work on the Series MOSFET code for S2IBIS3. A new release plus documentation is being prepared. S2IBIS3 beta executables can be downloaded from: http://www.ece.ncsu.edu/erl/ibis/s2ibis3/s2ibis3.htm Feedback on the current beta version is appreciated and encouraged. Ambrish will distribute a call for feedback on the latest code using the reflector. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES No new issues. BIRD84: DRIVER SCHEDULE CLARIFICATIONS Arpad Muranyi introduced BIRD84, which addresses two aspects of the [Driver Schedule] keyword definitions in 4.0: - - subparameters of scheduled models are ignored, similarly to c_comp - - "events" used to trigger the delays (such as Rising_off_delay, etc.) are better defined Due to these clarifications, [Driver Schedule] will not permit buffers to be "overclocked" in simulation. Bob Ross added that the keyword was never intended to permit overclocking behavior, in that all time delays were assumed to be shorter than the clock period of the driver. Feedback from Weston Beal has been received and may be incorporated into a revised BIRD84.1. IBIS ICM SPECIFICATION REVIEW Michael Mirmak announced that the final editorial mark-up of the ICM 1.0 specification had been completed. The 1.0 specification is now available on the IBIS web site, in Microsoft Word*, Adobe Acrobat* and ASCII text formats. Kelly Green announced that parser work has begun and is nearing 25% completion. He anticipates that a beta version will be ready for testing by the end of October. The current code is being developed under UNIX but will be converted to ANSI C for porting to other operating systems. Mentor Graphics has offered to compile a Sun Solaris* version, while Cadence Design Systems will compile a Microsoft Windows* executable. Bob Ross and Scott McMorrow of Teraspeed will provide a realistic set of data to be used in an example model. BIRD83: SERIES ELEMENT CLARIFICATIONS Michael Mirmak introduced BIRD83, which addresses two aspects of the treatment of series elements in 4.0: - - the [Series MOSFET] keyword is explicitly required before every use of the Vds subparameter - - any use of the "function_table_groups" column under [Series Pin Mapping] requires the presence of [Series Switch] elsewhere under that component Bob Ross suggested that additional detail explaining exactly what text changed from 4.0 in the new BIRD may be added in the Analysis section at the end of the BIRD. However, a new BIRD filing is not required. IBIS VERSION 4.1 DISCUSSION John Angulo is completing work on a BIRD to document the proper usage of [Ramp] data for the [External Model] keyword. The BIRD will also clarify the use of native IBIS [Model] subparameters within [External Model]. Although discussed in an earlier meeting, no change to the treatment of c_comp is anticipated; it will still be optional in [External Model] and will not be necessary or permitted under [External Circuit]. Michael Mirmak proposed that the official "readings" of the specification text begin at the next Open Forum meeting, with an approval vote to be held after the third reading. BIRD83, BIRD84 and the expected [Ramp] keyword clarification BIRD could be considered in parallel with the readings. Lynne Green suggested that the specification text be stable for at least two of the readings, although Bob Ross commented that minor text changes should not prevent an immediate start to the readings. A draft version of IBIS version 4.1 is available on the web. Both an ASCII text and an Adobe PDF version are available at: http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/wip/ IBISCHK4 & BUG TRACKING STATUS The BUG reports still open are BUG68, BUG73, BUG75, BUG76, BUG78, and BUG80. Of these, BUG80 will not be addressed in the IBISCHK4 parser (see below) and BUG78 will not be fixed. Code to fix BUG73 has been developed by John Angulo and provided to the developer but has not yet been included in the latest parser code. BUG68, BUG75, and BUG76 will be checked by their respective owners. It is also unknown whether all the required 4.0 features have been implemented in the new code. Michael Mirmak will confirm the BUG treatment status and the support of 4.0 features with the parser developer. John Angulo has accepted the AR to check the fixes in the next code release. BUG80 - [Model Selector] and [Diff Pin] Ordering John Angulo introduced BUG80. When a model contains a [Diff Pin] keyword placed after a [Model Selector], errors regarding an "orphan component" and an "orphan data line" are produced by the parser. While the parser error messages may need to be clarified, the specification does not clearly explain the scope of the [Diff Pin] and [Model Selector] keywords relative to the [Component] keyword. This relationship is clarified by the separate "tree" documents showing the IBIS keyword hierarchy. The BUG was classified as annoying, low priority and open, but will not be fixed in the 4.0 parser. A BIRD which either clarifies the scope of the keywords involved or which formally incorporates the entire tree hierarchy into the specification is being contemplated. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting will take place during the IBIS Summit at North East Systems Associates on Tuesday, October 21, starting at 9 AM US Eastern Time. A regular Open Forum teleconference has also been scheduled for October 24 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time. Votes regarding the approval of both BIRD83 and BIRD84 are scheduled. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax: (916) 377-1046 michael.mirmak@intel.com Senior Analog Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S FM6-45 1900 Prairie City Rd. Folsom, CA 95630 VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871 lgreen@cadence.com Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems 320 120th Ave NE, Suite B-103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016 SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475 rrwolff@micron.com Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc. 8000 S. Federal Way Mail Stop: 1-711 Boise, ID 83707-0006 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398 roy.leventhal@ieee.org Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications 1924 North Burke Drive Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008 John_angulo@mentor.com Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. Logins using anonymous FTP are accepted. * Other brands and names are the property of their respective owners. |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:35:06 +0530 From: akhilesh.chandra@st.com Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS file of a programmable cell Hello, I want to make IBIS file of a programmable cell, this cell have 2ma, 4ma, 6ma and 8ma driving capability, but having one model name. Can anyone help me to find out how can I put all 4 driving information in my IBIS file. With Best Regards Akhilesh |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:40:25 -0700 From: "Mirmak, Michael" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS file of a programmable cell Akhilesh, I would recommend using the [Model Selector] keyword. This will enable you to associate separate [Model]s, one for each of your drive current values, with a single signal name and pin. Best of luck! - - Michael Mirmak Intel Corp. Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of akhilesh.chandra@st.com Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:05 AM Cc: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS file of a programmable cell Hello, I want to make IBIS file of a programmable cell, this cell have 2ma, 4ma, 6ma and 8ma driving capability, but having one model name. Can anyone help me to find out how can I put all 4 driving information in my IBIS file. With Best Regards Akhilesh |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:50:45 -0700 From: "Mirmak, Michael" Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD85 - Slew Time Estimate Clarifications This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38EA7.02F06665 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The following BIRD, Slew Time Estimate Clarifications, is posted on=20 behalf of John Angulo, Mentor Graphics Corp. - - Michael Mirmak Intel Corp. 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under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:53:44 -0500 From: Sudheer B S Subject: [IBIS-Users] series switch with terminator Hi All I have a quection related to series switch which has terminator model associated with it The C_Comp value is accounted in both the switch model and terminator model Is it necessary to account the value of C_Comp in both the buffer model ? I feel C_Comp value is accounted twice in this model I have furthur quections also on this How the C_Comp value is measured in the series switch model ? Why Clamping curvers are required for Terminator i/p Model ? Any materials availible for this kind of modelling ? ****************pin mapping in switch model ********** [Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin | 2 1A1 TERM 0.06039 5.09918nH 0.96155pF **************** switch model ********** [Model] SWITCH1 Model_type Series_switch C_comp 9.000pF NA NA ****************terminator model ********** [Model] TERM Model_type Terminator | C_comp 5.500pF NA NA Regards SUDHEER |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:17:42 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS model Error Hello Muthu Lakshmi, You might want to let Cypress know that they can send models for review by the IBIS Model Review Committee. More information is at http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/support.htm. Best regards, Lynne Dr. Lynne Green Vice Chair, IBIS Cadence Design Systems - -----Original Message----- From: erik.van.der.ven@philips.com [mailto:erik.van.der.ven@philips.com] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 4:10 AM To: KMuthulakshmi@scmmicro.co.in; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS model Error Hello Muthu Lakshmi, I think there is something wrong with your IBIS model. The DC end points calculated from the I-V tables should match the V-T end points (logic levels). If the error is within 2% you should get a warning, otherwise an error. The difference you mention is very big. The DC end points are calculated from the I-V tables (therefore you don't see the end points of the V-T table). The I-V tables are derived by sweeping a voltage at the output and measuring the resulting current. By applying a certain load the voltages from the logic high and low level are calculated from the pull-up and pull-down curve (and of course they should be near the waveform end point voltages). The V-T data is used to describe the transition between the logic levels calculated from the I-V data. I would suggest that you contact Cypress to ask if this model is OK. With kind regards, Ir. Erik van der Ven Room DB1032 Business Line Networking Infrastructure Philips Semiconductors BV Gerstweg 2 6534 AE Nijmegen The Netherlands Phone: +31-24-3534334 KMuthulakshmi@scmmicro.co.in Sent by: owner-ibis-users@eda.org 07/28/03 05:32 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org cc: (bcc: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS) Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS model Error Classification: Hi All, I need IBIS expert's advice on the following. I get the following warning when checking the IBIS model. Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Rising Waveform] with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture]=0V has TYP column DC endpoints of 0.00V and 0.38v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages ( 1.14V and 1.06V), a difference of 99.99% and 64.28%, respectively. Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Falling Waveform] with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture]=0V has TYP column DC endpoints of 0.00V and 0.38v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages ( 1.14V and 1.06V), a difference of 99.99% and 64.28%, respectively. Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Rising Waveform] with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture_min]=0V has MIN column DC endpoints of 0.00V and 0.37v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages ( 1.09V and 0.93V), a difference of 99.99% and 60.23%, respectively. Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Falling Waveform] with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture_min]=0V has MIN column DC endpoints of 0.00V and 0.37v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages ( 1.09V and 0.93V), a difference of 99.99% and 60.23%, respectively. Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Rising Waveform] with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture_max]=0V has MAX column DC endpoints of 0.00V and 0.39v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages ( 1.77V and 1.83V), a difference of 100.00% and 78.72%, respectively. Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Falling Waveform] with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture_max]=0V has MAX column DC endpoints of 0.00V and 0.38v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages ( 1.77V and 1.83V), a difference of 100.00% and 79.26%, respectively. Please tell me the impact of this warning in simulation. I use XTK for the simulation. Eventhough the rise and fall VT curve values range from 0V to 0.38V in the IBIS model, I get 1.04V to 1.14V wave form. How is this related with this. I am using Cypress "CY7C65640" hub controller's IBIS model. Awaiting your earliest reply. Note: One IBIS parser gives the above warnings and another parser gives them as Errors. I do not know whether files can be attached with this mail. If it is OK, I can send the IBIS model. thanks & regards K.Muthu Lakshmi (KML) SCM Microsystems (India) Pvt. Ltd. email: KMuthulakshmi@scmmicro.co.in Web: www.scmmicro.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:05:37 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Agenda, IBIS Summit at PCB East, 21 October 2003 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT AGENDA - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2003, 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Location: North East Systems Associates 5 Lan Drive Westford, MA 01886 Teleconference: 916-356-4261 Bridge: 1 Passcode: 619-3933 Those requiring toll-free or international access must register with Kathy Breda (breda@nesa.com) at least 24 hours in advance. Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: IBIS Open Forum PCB Design Conference East October 20 - 24, 2003 Holiday Inn Boxborough 242 Adams Place Boxborough, MA 01719 See for more information. BACKGROUND PCB East is the premier East Coast event dedicated exclusively to PCB design and engineering professionals. Topics of current interest to the EIA IBIS Open Forum are addressed at PCB East. This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations are expected to be available and archived in an electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the meeting. AGENDA All times US Eastern Daylight - ------------------------------------------------------------------ 9:00 AM Refreshments & Sign In 9:30 AM Call to Order - Introductions - Welcoming Remarks Ed Sayre, North East Systems Associates - Opens for New Issues and Discussion Topics 9:45 AM IBIS Chair's Report Michael Mirmak, Intel Corporation 10:00 AM IBIS Quality Committee Update Robert Haller, Signal Integrity Software 10:30 AM Break 10:45 AM IBIS User Experiences Timothy Coyle, Sun Microsystems 11:15 AM S2IBIS3 - Past, Present and Future Ambrish Varma, North Carolina State University 11:45 AM Lunch - (Hosted by IBIS) 1:00 PM An ICM Example Using a Semiconductor Device Package Michael Mirmak, Intel Corporation 1:30 PM Use of [Ramp] in IBIS 4.1 Lynne Green, Cadence Design Systems 2:00 PM Details on True Differential Buffer Characterization Revisited Arpad Muranyi, Intel Corporation 2:45 PM Break 3:00 PM Open Discussion and Ad Hoc Topics All 4:45 PM Concluding Items - Next Open Forum Meeting October 24, 2003 5:00 PM End of IBIS Summit Meeting - ------------------------------------------------------------------ CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate in the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Attending in Person? Or by Phone? Send to: Kathy Breda (breda@nesa.com). LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS See for travel directions, hotels and other information. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:04:19 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS file of a programmable cell Try using the [Model Selector] keyword. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ======================================= - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of akhilesh.chandra@st.com Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:05 AM Cc: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS file of a programmable cell Hello, I want to make IBIS file of a programmable cell, this cell have 2ma, 4ma, 6ma and 8ma driving capability, but having one model name. Can anyone help me to find out how can I put all 4 driving information in my IBIS file. With Best Regards Akhilesh |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:00:59 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?anil=20kumar?= Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ramp data by direct measurement Hi experts, I am trying to get IBIS data by Direct Lab measurement. Since for space application ICs, SPICE models are not available. I want to know how to get V-T data(Ramp, Rising and Falling waveforms) by Direct measurement method(Lab setup). rgds, anil. ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:54:51 +0200 From: "Lior Dagan" Subject: [IBIS-Users] how do I run open drain block? Hello, suppose I want to run IBIS model open drain block, how do I do it? |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:24:21 -0700 From: "Ebert, Gregory J" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Ramp data by direct measurement I used a digital scope that had the ability to export data into a spreadsheet. In my case, I overlayed this with data from simulations to generate a plot that showed simulations bounded silicon performance. Be aware that package parasitics and the loading of the scope are affecting the signal that is captured. Also, due to process variations, you won't get the full picture as some material is bound to be slower or faster than the device you characterized. > I am trying to get IBIS data by Direct Lab > measurement. |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:16:10 -0400 From: "Lynne Green" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Important Reminder on IBIS Summit If you are planning to attend the IBIS Summit by teleconference, please remember to register with Kathy Breda (breda@nesa.com). Those requiring toll-free or international access must register at least 24 hours in advance. Thank you. Lynne Green Vice Chair, IBIS Cadence Design Systems |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:23:11 +0200 From: "Lior Dagan" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Rload When I run my model on spectrequest, the simulator assumes that r_fixture is shunt connected to a 50 ohms load. How do I disconnect the default 50 ohms load? |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:54:13 +0200 From: Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS to Pspice This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C393CB.7442B9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi evryone, I try for a while to convert IBIS files to Pspice v8.0. Is not working. I tryed IBIS2SPICE from Intusoft but it was impossible to import the = .lib file in my Pspice. Hase enybody tried to do this? Please help it is verry inportand to do = this. Thanks in advance, Cris Badea - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C393CB.7442B9C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi evryone,
 
I try for a while to convert IBIS files = to Pspice=20 v8.0. Is not working.
I tryed IBIS2SPICE from Intusoft but it = was=20 impossible to import the .lib file in my Pspice.
Hase enybody tried to do this? Please = help it is=20 verry inportand to do this.
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Cris = Badea
- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C393CB.7442B9C0-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:30:19 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?anil=20kumar?= Subject: [IBIS-Users] Query Hi Experts, If SPICE model is not given, how to generate IBIS model for that IC (other than Lab or Direct measurement) ? Or. Is not possible to generate IBIS model with out SPICE model (other than Direct measurement ) of an IC? Please answer to these Questions. with regards, anil. ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:42:59 -0700 From: "Mirmak, Michael" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Agenda, IBIS Open Forum Teleconference for October 24 IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for October 24, 2003 Telephone Number Bridge Passcode 1-916-356-2663 3 190-3009 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When calling into the meeting, provide the reservation number and passcode at the automated prompts. If asked by an operator, please request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak. For international numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Mirmak - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Mirmak - Call for Patents (IBIS 4.0, 4.1, ICM) Mirmak - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Mirmak - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Mirmak October 3, 2003 Open Forum Minutes - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Leventhal - Opens for New Issues All 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuits Electromagnetic Model Proposal (IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) Perrin/Peters - JEDEC Committee Report Green PCB East Summit Summary Mirmak DesignCon 2004 Summit Planning Mirmak European DATE Summit Planning Ross IBIS Version 4.0 Parser Status Mirmak IBIS Quality Committee Report Haller/Green IBIS Model Review Committee Green S2IBIS3 Status Varma/Ross ICM Specification and Parser Status Green/Mirmak - BIRD, BUG process discussion New Administrative Issues All 8:45 Technical Discussion BIRD83: Series Element Clarifications Mirmak, All - Call for Vote BIRD84: Driver Schedule Clarifications Muranyi, All - Call for Vote BIRD85: Slew Time Clarifications Angulo, All IBIS Version 4.1 Discussion All - First Formal "Reading" IBISCHK4 Status Mirmak/Angulo - Status of final BUG68 New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meeting Plans Mirmak - November 14, 2003 Open Forum 9:55 Sign Off |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:57:45 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Query Anil, If you have a data book with enough information it may be possible to type up the IV curves and edge rates by hand and make an IBIS model that way. But usually you are better off measuring the necessary information in the lab or using SPICE. The accuracy of the data book method will most likely be the lowest. The lab measurements could be more accurate than SPICE as far as matching the actual device, but could include some noise which can be eliminated with SPICE, and the measurements may not cover all the ranges and process corner skews you would like to have. SPICE would be the best from that perspective, but your data will only be as accurate as the SPICE model is. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ============================================================== - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf Of anil kumar Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 1:30 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Query Hi Experts, If SPICE model is not given, how to generate IBIS model for that IC (other than Lab or Direct measurement) ? Or. Is not possible to generate IBIS model with out SPICE model (other than Direct measurement ) of an IC? Please answer to these Questions. with regards, anil. ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:51:13 -0700 From: rrwolff@micron.com Subject: [IBIS-Users] [IBIS] Open forum minutes (10/24/03) DATE: 10/28/03 SUBJECT: OCTOBER 24, 2003 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2003 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Lance Wang Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Michael LaBonte, Val Mandruson, Hung Pham, Todd Westerhoff Fairchild Semiconductor (Graham Connolly) Hitachi ULSI Systems Kazuyoshi Shoji Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Michael Mirmak*, Arpad Muranyi*, Eric Magnusson LSI Logic Frank Gasparik* Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics [Bob Ross], Ian Dodd, Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Mike Donnelly, Weston Beal Micron Technology Randy Wolff* Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola (Rick Kingen) National Semiconductor [Milt Schwartz], [Tim Coyle] NEC Electric Corporation (Itsuki Yamada) North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda, Michael Baxter Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions), Stephanie Goedecke Siemens (& Automotive) AG Eckhard Lenski*, Michael Kindij, Burkhard Muller, Katja Koller, Andre Goerisch, Manfred Maurer, Bernard Unger, Amir Motamedi, Hartmut Ibowski, Gerald Bannert Signal Integrity Software Bob Haller, Barry Katz, Doug Burns Sigrity [Raj Raghuram] Sun Microsystems Tim Coyle Synopsys Warren Wong, Edmund Cheng Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher Teraspeed Scott McMorrow, Tom Dagostino, Kevin Simpson, Bob Ross* Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Zuken (& Incases) Michael Schaeder, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2003: Agilent Technologies Herbert Lage Brocade Frank Yuan, Yongrue Yu Conexant Gary Felker EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin EFM Ekkehard Miersch EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, John Fernandez, Simba Julian Fraunhofer IZM Ege Engin Fujitsu Tadashi Arai GEIA (Chris Denham) Independent Luca Giacotto, Kelly Green, Shinichi Maeda Infineon Tech AG Christian Sporrer Marvell Semiconductor Itzik Peleg NetLogic Microsystems Eric Hsu North Carolina State Univ. Ambrish Varma Plexus Joseph Socha Politechnico de Torino Igor Stievano Qlogic Larry Barnes Sintecs BV Hans Klos, Bob te Nijenhuis SiQual (Rob Hinz) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Telephone Number Bridge # Passcode November 14, 2003 1-916-356-2663 1 477-8778 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting. When calling into the meeting, provide the reservation number and passcode at the automated prompts. If asked by an operator, please request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak. For international dial-in numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. - -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. CALL FOR PATENTS Michael Mirmak called for any patents or pending patents related to the IBIS Version 4.0, 4.1 or ICM specifications. No patents were declared. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Michael Mirmak announced that, as of October 9, membership payment from Sun Microsystems was accepted, bringing the Open Forum officially to 28 members. The GEIA has provided a financial report through the end of October showing positive revenue versus expenses for the year so far (approximately $300). Bob Ross pointed out that GEIA's fiscal year is not the same as the federal government, but corresponds to the calendar year. As a result, the budget must cover expenses in November and December. Bob noted that the Open Forum should consider itself exactly on budget for the year and that this was a positive development. Michael mentioned that any budgeting for the end of 2003 needs to take into account reimbursement to NESA for the PCB East summit lunch and final payment to Atul Agarwal for his IBISCHK4.0 parser work. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND ARS The October 3, 2003 meeting minutes were approved with one change: Bob Ross noted that the previous minutes incorrectly noted that the minutes from the "October 3" meeting and not the "September 12" meeting were approved. This correction will be made to the on-line minutes. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Bob Ross suggested that additional links should be added to the eigroup.org web site to direct visitors to the IBIS 4.1 review text. In addition, the current link on the EDA.org site to the directories and files previously available through anonymous FTP no longer works, as anonymous FTP has been discontinued on EDA.org. Bob proposed that a new link to a formal HTML directory of files be added to the EDA.org IBIS site. Bob Ross also mentioned that a new book by Eric Bogatin, called "Signal Integrity Simplified," contains a chapter with a significant discussion on IBIS. A summary of the book is available from the publisher: http://vig.prenhall.com/catalog/academic/product/0,4096,0130669466,00.html NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE No new models received. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES No new issues. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal No update. - - JEDEC Activity Report Lynne Green noted that the JEDEX 2004 conference is being planned for April 15 and April 16, 2004. More information can be found at: http://www.jedex.org/ PCB EAST SUMMIT SUMMARY Michael Mirmak summarized the events at the PCB East Summit, held on October 21. Attendance was good, with 18 people from 12 organizations participating. The quality of technical presentations and discussion was high, with excellent suggestions from the participants as to future actions on S2IBIS3 and ICM, among other activities. Michael again thanked NESA's Kathy Breda and Ed Sayre in addition to Lynne Green for their help in making the PCB East IBIS Summit a success. The presentations given at the summit can be found on the IBIS web at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/oct03/ DESIGNCON 2004 SUMMIT DISCUSSION Michael Mirmak reported that most activities relating to IBIS co-sponsorship of DesignCon have been completed, although discussions regarding refreshments still continue. Guy deBurgh confirmed that he is still planning to attend and will be bringing the IBIS booth. He requested that IBIS members contact him with any logo updates. Bob Ross suggested that the booth would provide an excellent forum for discussion and distribution of the ICM specification. Bob also mentioned that lunch arrangements should be finalized as soon as possible; the expense is likely to be relatively high (around $1000) due to the lunch being provided at the convention site. Lynne Green mentioned that an announcement of the first call for papers should be arranged for mid-November. In addition, she and Michael agreed to complete a written appeal to members for sponsorship contributions for lunch at the summit. EUROPEAN DATE SUMMIT PLANNING Bob Ross reported that he and Ralf Bruening of Zuken have been continuing to plan for a European IBIS Summit at DATE 2004. The DATE Summit is currently scheduled for Friday, February 20 in Paris. Eckhard Lenski noted that he would have to inquire regarding his own attendance and asked whether any IBIS officers might participate. Lynne Green may be able to attend personally if her visit could be coordinated with other Cadence European activities. Ralf is completing the logistical arrangements for the location, refreshments, etc., but expects that rather large contributions would be needed from several member companies to make the event happen. IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING AND STATUS Michael Mirmak reported that he had discussed the parser status with Atul Agarwal, the parser developer. All 4.0 features have been included and only two BUG reports remain to be resolved in the code. Atul is willing to distribute a beta release with the latest updates once fixes to BUG68 and BUG73 are decided upon by the Open Forum. If this beta meets with the Open Forum's approval, this code would become the final 4.0 parser and all IBISCHK4 activities could be closed. Bob Ross noted a few small issues regarding the 4.0 features in the current code, including extra spaces in package model names and a typographical error in one warning report. These will be forwarded to Atul for inclusion in the beta code. The alpha version of IBISCHK4 is available for download: http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/ibischk4_beta A review of the BUG reports still to be addressed was conducted during the Technical Discussion portion of the meeting (see below). IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE Lynne Green reported that meetings continue every two weeks, with the next meeting scheduled for November 4. Lynne noted that a status update from the Committee was presented during the PCB East IBIS Summit. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE Lynne Green reported that no new models have been received by the committee since the last meeting. S2IBIS3 Michael Mirmak mentioned that a full update of S2IBIS3 developments was provided in a formal presentation by Ambrish Varma at the PCB East IBIS Summit. S2IBIS3 beta executables can be downloaded from: http://www.ece.ncsu.edu/erl/ibis/s2ibis3/s2ibis3.htm Feedback on the current beta version is appreciated and encouraged. Ambrish will distribute a call for feedback on the latest code using the reflector. IBIS ICM STATUS Lynne Green confirmed that an alpha test version of the ICM 1.0 parser will be available in early November. Michael Mirmak reported that a BIRD and BUG filing procedure and text are being created for ICM, with much the same format. Bob Ross suggested that additional web subdirectories would be required to store the filed reports. Names such as IBIRD and IBUG are being considered for the new report templates. NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES No new issues. BIRD83: SERIES ELEMENT CLARIFICATIONS Michael Mirmak reported that, outside of formatting suggestions by Bob Ross, no comments have been received on BIRD83. Bob Ross noted that a technical issue remains: if the column header "function_table_groups" is sufficient to require the use of the [Series Switch Groups] keyword, or whether the header and appropriate data must both be present. Michael agreed that this should be clarified in the text, but only after the behavior of the parser is confirmed. Bob added that the original text that the BIRD changes should be noted in the BIRD itself. In addition, the change marks are usually rendered as "|*" as opposed to "*|" in most BIRDs. Michael noted that there were no explicit links between [Series Switch Groups], [Series MOSFET] and the [On] and [Off] keywords. Bob suggested that the specification language implies that, if no limit or relationship is explicitly noted, none is intended. The current BIRD text was withdrawn from consideration by Michael Mirmak. A BIRD 83.1 version, addressing the issues above, will be distributed for discussion at the next Open Forum meeting. BIRD84: DRIVER SCHEDULE CLARIFICATIONS Arpad Muranyi noted that BIRD84 consists of two portions. The first, a clarification of the subparameters allowed in the top-level and scheduled models, has generated no comments. The second part, defining "event" and describing how "events" trigger scheduled models, has generated one set of comments on the IBIS reflector which Arpad found ambiguous. Despite Arpad's efforts, no additional information has been forthcoming from the comments' author. Bob Ross mentioned that the text describing events as not being held to the next clock cycle conflicts with the ASCII drawing provided. Treatment of overclocked buffers was never intended by the original [Driver Schedule] keyword definition. John Angulo also noted that a one-sentence definition of "event" may not be enough to clarify its use. A cautionary note regarding [Driver Schedule] and overclocked buffers may be necessary. The current BIRD text was withdrawn from consideration by Arpad. A BIRD 84.1 version, addressing the issues above, will be distributed for discussion at the next Open Forum meeting. BIRD85: Slew Time Clarifications John Angulo introduced BIRD85, which addresses the use of the [Ramp] keyword within [External Model]. The BIRD alters the interpretation of BIRD75.8 to make [Ramp] a requirement for [External Model]s; however, the data under [Ramp] in this case may be collected under conditions different than those recommended by the "Notes on Data Derivation" elsewhere in the Specification. The [Ramp] data would be used in the [External Model] context to improve simulation efficiency and crosstalk estimation by providing an initial timestep target to the simulator. Michael Mirmak observed that, while the additional use of [Ramp] data was necessary for [External Model] simulation efficiency, models were already being created which inappropriately normalize [Ramp] data or otherwise misinterpret the specification requirements. Lynne Green commented that, while the load for [Ramp] must be resistive, the text language should be tightened to clarify how the loading is different from that explained in the data derivation notes. Bob Ross noted that the word "slew" was used without definition and that the Rload usage and voltage termination should be explained more fully. The current BIRD text was withdrawn from consideration by John. A BIRD 85.1 version, addressing the issues above, will be distributed for discussion at the next Open Forum meeting. IBIS VERSION 4.1 FIRST READING Michael Mirmak announced the first official "reading" of the IBIS 4.1 specification, and called for comments. None were issued at the meeting. Bob Ross reiterated his suggestion that a new link to the 4.1 text be added to the web site. In addition, he suggested that the text of the revised BIRDs described above be added to the draft 4.1 document as soon as possible, in addition to BIRD 82.2. Further, there are several references in the current 4.1 text to the 80 character per line limit which was recently expanded to 120 characters. Explicit references to the 80 character limit should be removed. Michael Mirmak suggested that the term "deprecated" be added to non-preferred keywords such as [Driver Schedule] and [TT], similar to the format used by the W3 Consortium in describing HTML. Further, he suggested that a 4.1 "tree" showing the hierarchy of keywords, be added to the 4.1 specification, similar to that used for ICM 1.0. Bob agreed that both might be useful, but that they should be deferred until the 4.2 specification. A draft version of IBIS version 4.1 is available on the web. Both an ASCII text and an Adobe PDF version are available at: http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/wip/ IBISCHK4 & BUG TRACKING STATUS John Angulo reported that he had written a recommendation for addressing the problems reported in BUG68 and had revised his recommendation for BUG73. BUG68 is addressed by forcing the parser to ignore small differences in the I-V curve result data table. BUG73 is addressed by ignoring non-monotonic I-V table data points except those closest in value to the V-T data table endpoint. Treatment of ECL models will need detailed discussion in a future Open Forum meeting. Both updated code fragments have been provided to Atul Agarwal for inclusion in the beta parser release. NEXT MEETING: The next Open Forum teleconference has been scheduled for November 14 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM US Pacific Standard Time. Votes regarding the approval of BIRD83, BIRD84 and BIRD85 are scheduled. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax: (916) 377-1046 michael.mirmak@intel.com Senior Analog Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S FM6-45 1900 Prairie City Rd. Folsom, CA 95630 VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871 lgreen@cadence.com Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems 320 120th Ave NE, Suite B-103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016 SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475 rrwolff@micron.com Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc. 8000 S. Federal Way Mail Stop: 1-711 Boise, ID 83707-0006 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398 roy.leventhal@ieee.org Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications 1924 North Burke Drive Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008 John_angulo@mentor.com Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis/directory.html file on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. * Other brands and names are the property of their respective owners. |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:46:23 -0700 From: rrwolff@micron.com Subject: [IBIS-Users] [IBIS] IBIS Summit minutes (10/21/03) DATE: 10/29/03 SUBJECT: OCTOBER 21, 2003 EIA IBIS Summit Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2003 PARTICIPANTS LIST: Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Apple Computer Kim Helliwell Applied Simulation Technology Fred Balistreri Cadence Design Lynne Green*, Lance Wang* Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Michael LaBonte*, Val Mandruson, Hung Pham, Todd Westerhoff Fairchild Semiconductor (Graham Connolly) Hitachi ULSI Systems Kazuyoshi Shoji* Huawei Technologies (Jiang Xiang Zhong) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Michael Mirmak*, Arpad Muranyi*, Eric Magnusson LSI Logic Frank Gasparik Matsushita (Panasonic) Atsuji Ito Mentor Graphics [Bob Ross], Ian Dodd*, Guy de Burgh, John Angulo*, Mike Donnelly, Weston Beal Micron Technology Randy Wolff Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola (Rick Kingen) National Semiconductor [Milt Schwartz], [Tim Coyle] NEC Electric Corporation (Itsuki Yamada) North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre*, Kathy Breda*, Michael Baxter* Philips Semiconductor (D.C. Sessions), Stephanie Goedecke Siemens (& Automotive) AG Eckhard Lenski*, Michael Kindij, Burkhard Muller, Katja Koller, Andre Goerisch, Manfred Maurer, Bernard Unger, Amir Motamedi, Hartmut Ibowski, Gerald Bannert Signal Integrity Software Bob Haller*, Barry Katz, Doug Burns Sigrity [Raj Raghuram] Sun Microsystems Tim Coyle* Synopsys Warren Wong, Edmund Cheng Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher* Teraspeed Scott McMorrow, Tom Dagostino, Kevin Simpson, Bob Ross* Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey Zuken (& Incases) Michael Schaeder, Ralf Bruening OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2003: Agilent Technologies Herbert Lage Brocade Frank Yuan, Yongrue Yu Conexant Gary Felker EADS CCR Alix de la Villeguerin EFM Ekkehard Miersch EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, John Fernandez, Simba Julian Fraunhofer IZM Ege Engin Fujitsu Tadashi Arai GEIA (Chris Denham) Independent Luca Giacotto, Kelly Green, Shinichi Maeda* Infineon Tech AG Christian Sporrer Marvell Semiconductor Itzik Peleg NetLogic Microsystems Eric Hsu North Carolina State Univ. Ambrish Varma* Plexus Joseph Socha Politechnico de Torino Igor Stievano Qlogic Larry Barnes Sintecs BV Hans Klos, Bob te Nijenhuis SiQual (Rob Hinz) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Telephone Number Bridge # Passcode November 14, 2003 1-916-356-2663 1 477-8778 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. Meeting agendas are typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum. Minutes are typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting. When calling into the meeting, provide the bridge number and passcode at the automated prompts. If asked by an operator, please request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak. For international dial-in numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. - -------------------------------- MINUTES ----------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM The IBIS Summit Meeting was held in Westford, Massachusetts at the offices of North East Systems Associates (NESA) in conjunction with the PCB East Conference. The summit was co-sponsored by IBIS and NESA. 18 people representing 12 organizations attended, including 7 people who attended via teleconference. The notes below capture some of the content and discussions. The meeting presentations and other documents are uploaded at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/oct03/ Michael Mirmak opened the meeting and asked everyone in the room and on the teleconference bridge to introduce themselves. The group was well-attended by semiconductor vendors and model providers, EDA tool vendors and users of IBIS models. Michael thanked Kathy Breda and Ed Sayre of North East Systems Associates for their logistical support on-site and Lynne Green for her assistance with calls for papers and setting the agenda. Finally, Michael thanked the presenters and participants for attending. Ed Sayre, CEO of North East Systems Associates, welcomed the participants and expressed his hope that the summit would be a productive and useful experience. Michael asked if there were any new issues or discussion items to add to the agenda. No issues were raised. PRESENTATIONS AND DISCUSSION TOPICS The rest of the meeting consisted of presentations and discussions. These notes capture some of the content and discussion. More details are available in the documents uploaded to the location noted above. IBIS CHAIR'S REPORT Michael Mirmak, Intel Corporation Michael reviewed the recent work of the IBIS Open Forum and IBIS community at large. The Open Forum continues to be strong, with 28 paid members and nine purchasers of Golden Parser (IBISCHK) licenses. In addition, specification development activities are on-going, with the approval of the IBIS Interconnect Modeling Specification (ICM) 1.0 and the first formal "readings" of the IBIS 4.1 specification about to begin. The IBIS Quality Committee continues to provide feedback on models and modeling issues, and a new IBISCHK4 parser is expected to pass beta testing before the end of the year. While IBIS Open Forum work has been successful, many challenges remain ahead for IBIS as a whole. In order to better support IBIS tool vendors, model makers, and users, cookbooks for both ICM and IBIS 4.0 must be completed and distributed as soon as possible. In addition, the Open Forum must continue to expand and enhance a global IBIS community; support of the European DATE summit must continue, but the Open Forum should also consider holding "Electronic Roadshow" presentations in time zones convenient to Europe and Asia. This would help bring summit-quality presentations to other parts of the globe while not incurring the costs associated with international travel. Ed Sayre suggested that more IBIS technical materials be made available to universities and university students, at perhaps a junior or senior level. This would enhance interest in behavioral modeling and promote IBIS as a whole new way of looking at semiconductors. Mike LaBonte also suggested that IBIS member company Synopsys be encouraged to present at future summits on its HSPICE*-related IBIS support. IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE UPDATE Bob Haller, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft) Bob reviewed the purpose of the Quality Committee and summarized the backgrounds of the various participants. He then listed the various "problem areas" of IBIS, where accuracy has become difficult due to misinterpretations or limitations of the IBIS specification; these include C_comp, on-die termination and matching between I-V and V-t curves. On-die termination prompted some discussion. While Bob noted that IBIS was not necessarily intended to include these termination effects, he suggested that sweeping I-V curves over the entire operating range of the part is sufficient to ensure these effects' inclusion. Ed Sayre noted that, as memory chips are the highest volume component in production today, user configurability of termination, strength and slew rate are serious issues. On overclocking, Bob suggested that cutting out "excessive dead time" in V-t curves helps to ensure the usability of IBIS models at higher frequencies. However, he also suggested that an explicit maximum frequency limit may be needed. Ed Sayre observed that, in general, manufacturers might not always be the best source for accurate modeling information, as IBIS is treated more as a "marketing feature" than a technical requirement. On accuracy checking, Michael Mirmak suggested that a parser specification, including the parser's assumptions and outside of the actual IBIS specification, should be written to inform the IBIS community of how the specification is being interpreted. Bob reviewed the current Quality Committee model quality rating levels and solicited feedback on Committee documents. Accuracy questions are encouraged, as are more participant papers on accuracy issues. Bob concluded his presentation by noting that the next Quality Committee meeting will be held on Tuesday, November 9. He observed that the meeting had good European and Japanese participation and he hoped this would continue. For additional information on the quality committee and to be included on the mailing list send mail to ibis-quality@freelist.org. The IBIS quality committee web site is available on the IBIS web page or at http://www.sisoft.com/ibis-quality IBIS USER EXPERIENCES Timothy Coyle, Sun Microsystems Timothy reviewed the current state of IBIS from a model maker's and model user's perspective. At present, IBIS 3.2 is familiar and firmly entrenched in the industry. While the concepts are familiar, most models represent extremes of very good or very poor quality, even among those which pass the Golden Parser. Poor accuracy and quality for model data is not detected by the parser in most cases; in addition, many manufacturers treat generation of IBIS data as a marketing effort or as an adjunct to design rather than as a separate step performed by a specific expert. Timothy summarized his recommended procedure for verifying outside model accuracy: - - determine your vendors' IBIS generation procedures - - request tester or other verification data - - ask about their trust in their modeling data (would they fail a system design based on their modeling data?) As an adjunct activity to promote greater accuracy and information exchange, Timothy has created a separate web site for IBIS developers, to be announced in several weeks. The purpose of the web site will be to provide information exchange in answer to the frequent questions of speed and accuracy asked in relation to IBIS versus transistor-level modeling tools. Comments and suggestions for the site may be provided to timothy.coyle@sun.com. S2IBIS3 - PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE Ambrish Varma, North Carolina State University Ambrish Varma summarized the current progress on S2IBIS3 development. At present, the tool is Java-based to ensure maximum compatibility across all platforms. All keywords supported by S2IBIS2 are included, plus support for series elements, such as [Series MOSFET], has just been added. For the longer term a graphical user interface, perhaps including parser and model library support, could be included, with macromodeling features to enable power supply noise analysis and the like. A specification document is being written to summarize how S2IBIS3 approaches IBIS creation and the assumptions made outside of IBIS requirements. Ambrish concluded by soliciting feedback on the current beta. Lynne Green observed that, while SSO and power/ground bounce information would be highly useful, the original IBIS specification contained no keywords to support inclusion of the data. Simulations which show these effects rely on approaches and assumptions outside of the IBIS keywords. Mike LaBonte suggested that the current command (CMD) file information could be exported into the appropriate sections of the output file as comments, to inform the user as to how the data was derived. In response to an inquiry about I-V sweeping, Ambrish observed that DC sweeps are used to generate I-V curve tables; this raised concern about the differences between transient and DC sweep assumptions in biasing and convergence. Ed Sayre noted with some concern that the future work needed to complete S2IBIS3 work was not funded. A detailed discussion was deferred until the end of the meeting. AN ICM EXAMPLE USING A SEMICONDUCTOR DEVICE PACKAGE Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp Michael presented a typical application of ICM 1.0 to semiconductor designs, a ball-grid array (BGA) package. He reviewed the structure of BGA packages, how they might be modeled under IBIS 3.2/4.0 and showed a detailed ICM version of a differential pair within a BGA package. The particular example used nodal mapping of RLGC section data. Clearly, ICM resolves the problem of the IBIS package format, where model authors had to choose between creating multi-segment models of a package or creating a fully coupled model. Michael noted that, for full compatibility with current multi-conductor RLGC modeling approaches, support for additional RLGC data tables showing frequency-based variations should be added to a future ICM revision. Michael also noted that Kelly Green, the ICM parser developer, expects to have an alpha release ready in early November. Several people pointed out a minor typographical error in the ICM model presented. Also, there were a few inquiries as to how the nodal format connects separate sections together when each section differs in the number of nodes or interconnects modeled. Finally, there were several questions regarding whether the resistance matrices, which show diminishing values in ohms for off-diagonal terms, include conductance effects or not. Michael promised to research this and provide more technical details to individual participants. The example ICM model set presented in Michael's slides is available as a separate file on the IBIS web site. The suggested corrections will be made in the posted version. USE OF [RAMP] IN IBIS 4.1 Lynne Green, Cadence Design Systems Lynne summarized the history of the [Ramp] keyword, by observing its use and associated assumptions in IBIS 1.0. While V-t curve support was added in IBIS 2.1 to more realistically model the non-linear transitions of buffers, [Ramp] was kept for compatibility. The data in the keyword is highly useful for estimating an initial timestep for simulation and also for estimating crosstalk effects. Unfortunately, the utility of [Ramp] is compromised by misuse of the keyword data -- for example, normalizing the data to "1 ns" dt instead of collecting correct dV and dt data for the buffer into the appropriate load. At present, data for single-ended buffers can be collected with almost any resistive load similar to that expected under normal conditions. For differential buffers, the single-ended termination voltage assumptions break down, though comments can help to eliminate some confusion. BIRD75 extensions threaten to cause more issues, as the flexibility of AMS or Berkeley SPICE designs under IBIS 4.1 make a single recommendation for collecting [Ramp] data impossible to create - -- how should one create [Ramp] data for a programmable slew rate buffer? Currently, BIRD85 has been proposed to make [Ramp] a requirement for [External Model] data, so that the utility of [Ramp] for timestep and crosstalk estimation is preserved. The language of BIRD85 clarifies exactly what the [Ramp] data means and how it should be generated. Michael Mirmak pointed out the risks in "overloading" the [Ramp] keyword's meaning, as models today appear which badly misuse the keyword or ignore the data derivation rules for it. John Angulo pointed out that the real intent of the keyword in advanced applications is to define a slew time target, which some tools already explicitly request. Mike LaBonte raised the issue of adding termination voltage and resistance information to the keyword. Lynne pointed out that, while this would help with some differential loading types, this would not preserve the original keyword nor would it provide a general solution for future designs. DETAILS ON TRUE DIFFERENTIAL BUFFER CHARACTERIZATION REVISITED Arpad Muranyi, Intel Corp. Arpad presented his slides as an extension of previous talks by himself and Hazem Hegazy on differential modeling at the 2000, 2001, and 2002 IBIS Summits. The updated slides take the 2002 proposed method of generating differential and common mode curves for an IBIS model and show how this method actually can be implemented using IBIS 3.2 keywords. Arpad pointed out that, while his new method satisfactorily accounts for differential currents and capacitances, the 3.2 series element keywords necessary to properly describe these effects are not universally available in IBIS compatible tools today. The essence of the new I-V model technique is to generate common mode currents, captured under the standard [Model] keywords and subparameters, while placing differential mode currents under a series element keyword ([Series MOSFET], [Series Current], etc. which would "tie together" the two common mode models. By creating a surface plot and normalizing the plot so that diagonal currents are zero, the off-diagonal components can be used for the differential mode model. The current along the diagonal becomes the common mode model data. This can be fairly easily accomplished using Perl and a SPICE simulation tool, though new Matlab toolboxes may ease the process. V-t curves can be generated by canceling the differential currents with a dependent current source controlled by coefficients resulting from the earlier I-V sweeps. Arpad also showed a differential capacitance meter based upon an AC (frequency-domain) sweep of the buffer of interest, with appropriate biasing. The differential and common mode components of C_comp can be measured using this method and expressed using [Model] and series element keywords as with the I-V curves above. Using a correct C_comp value and combined [Model] and series element keyword data yields excellent transient and DC matching between transistor and IBIS models. The matching is less accurate when only the buffer's internal load (no external load) is used for the correlation. Similarly, mismatched transmission lines show miscorrelation, though the results for transmission lines with impedances matched to the buffer data's load resistance showed very good matching. Data dependencies, seen as rising and falling asymmetries, appeared in the transistor-level model which IBIS 3.2 cannot match. Many of these issues may be addressed more completely using an IBIS 4.1 AMS-based model. Both Arpad and Ed Sayre noted that rising vs. falling asymmetries have been noted in actual (simulated) designs. The participants agreed that further study was needed of Arpad's techniques before meaningful feedback could be provided. OTHER DISCUSSIONS AND AD HOC PRESENTATIONS The post-presentation discussions focused primarily on IBIS futures, specifically regarding ICM, S2IBIS3, and technical issues related to IBIS 4.1. Ed Sayre strongly suggested that an ICM roadmap be prepared, to include the adoption steps necessary by tool vendors, the support plan of the Open Forum, and the timeline of these actions plus specification enhancements. Arpad added questions regarding the applicability of ICM to other types of interconnect, specifically on-die: could ICM be used to describe power and ground networks inside the die as well as on packages? Ed followed this with questions regarding the use of ICM for power-ground modeling: are "bedspring" models of power delivery networks the only option under ICM, or are plane models also possible? Michael Mirmak commented that, at present, ICM was most suitable for packages and PCB-related interconnects, while the multi-lingual extensions of IBIS 4.1 were intended to assist modeling of on-die interconnects. Michael provided a brief sketch of ICM's potential direction: - - provide frequency-dependent RLGC support - - clarify interfacing to IBIS models - - clarify the relationship between ICM and IBIS 4.1 multi-lingual extensions - - (potentially) enable ICM as a "fourth extension" in a post-4.1 version of IBIS Bob Ross commented that the use of ICM as an IBIS extension was complicated by ICM's existence as an independent specification. As with VHDL-AMS and Verilog-AMS, any connection between ICM and IBIS cannot be easily "built-in" to the ICM specification. Ed Sayre suggested that a detailed ICM roadmap could be prepared as follows: - - provide regular status reports - - gather consensus from major stakeholders on ICM's direction - - use DesignCon as a forum for presenting the plans - - reintroduce ICM to the modeling community, who may be desensitized to discussions due to the long delay in finalizing the specification If needed, major connector and cable manufacturers can be involved, perhaps even to supply funds if further development expenses are foreseen. Ed also raised the earlier issue of S2IBIS3 financial support. He noted that, while Java certainly was platform-independent, were there other options which may be more easily adopted? Also, as this is a freely distributed "product," was the Open Forum involved in raising money for it, as it is being developed for non-commercial purposes? Both Bob Ross and Michael Mirmak commented that, as with earlier discussion of open source distribution of the IBIS parser, the Open Forum must refrain from offering "products" which may create additional competitive pressure for its members. In such a situation, no incentive remains for IBIS to retain and grow its membership, if no benefit and calculable loss results to companies who joined. For the foreseeable future, S2IBIS3 will be supported indirectly by the Open Forum, through research and technical feedback, but will not be offered or controlled directly by the Open Forum. Regarding [Ramp], John Angulo summarized his BIRD85 work, and concluded that while needed, the approach used for [external Model] may turn out to be "flaky" and too dependent on author interpretation. Already, [Ramp] data for differential models is "fudged" to comply with the IBIS single-ended derivation requirements. Arpad concurred, asking whether it was desirable to add a "dual-use" keyword to the IBIS 4.1 specification. Further discussion of this issue will take place at upcoming Open Forum meetings. Finally, in discussing upcoming events, Bob Ross noted that the European IBIS Summit is currently scheduled to take place at DATE 2004 on February 20 in Paris. CONCLUDING ITEMS Michael Mirmak again thanked the presenters and NESA sponsors for their help and support in making the Summit a success. After reminding the participants regarding the next Open Forum teleconference, Michael closed the IBIS Summit Meeting. NEXT MEETING: The next Open Forum teleconference has been scheduled for November 14 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM US Pacific Standard Time. Votes regarding the approval of BIRD83, BIRD84 and BIRD85 are scheduled. ============================================================================ NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax: (916) 377-1046 michael.mirmak@intel.com Senior Analog Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S FM6-45 1900 Prairie City Rd. Folsom, CA 95630 VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax: (425) 451-1871 lgreen@cadence.com Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems 320 120th Ave NE, Suite B-103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016 SECRETARY: Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475 rrwolff@micron.com Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc. 8000 S. Federal Way Mail Stop: 1-711 Boise, ID 83707-0006 LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398 roy.leventhal@ieee.org Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications 1924 North Burke Drive Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008 John_angulo@mentor.com Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: majordomo@eda.org In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector: subscribe ibis In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector: subscribe ibis-users Help and other commands: help ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis/directory.html file on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. Other brands and names are the property of their respective owners. |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:20:07 -0600 From: James_R_Jones@dell.com Subject: [IBIS-Users] Does a clock driver IBIS model need to incorporate steady state s witching effects? I have received some feedback recently that you would need a clock driver IBIS model to take into account the effects of steady state switching at some frequency. The feedback states that if you used the same silicon I/O cell for psuedo-random, or less frequent switching, then the IBIS model would need to be different to get the most accurate effect. Does anyone have any insight that could be helpful in explaining why this might be the case? James R. Jones Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team Dell Inc. (512) 725-1809 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ End of ibis-users V1 #32 ************************