From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org (ibis-users)
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Subject: ibis-users V1 #70
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ibis-users        Wednesday, December 14 2005        Volume 01 : Number 070




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:12:57 -0500
From: "Todd Westerhoff \(twesterh\)" <twesterh@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive loads

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Venu,
=20
How long is the transmission line you're using ... about 1ns?
=20
Your IBIS driver in the 30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips
to charge the load where the HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a
programmable driver, is it possible the driver settings for the two
plots are different?  In the top plot for the 30pf case, the IBIS driver
looks like a much weaker output with a faster slew rate to me ...
=20
Todd.

Todd Westerhoff
High Speed Design Group Manager
Cisco Systems
1414 Massachusetts Ave
Boxboro, MA 01719
email:twesterh@cisco.com
ph: 978-936-2149
____________________________________________
"Always do right.
 This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
=20
- - Mark Twain

=20

________________________________

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On
Behalf Of Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:38 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads



Hi Gurus,

I have an ATA* IBIS model and it is correlating well with hspice model
when I am using a 5pF load followed by a transmission line. If I replace
the 5pF load with 30pF correlation is bad (particularly in 2nd page
waveform of attached PDF).=20

Could some one comment on this, where it is going wrong?

Your comments/inputs are highly appreciated.

Attachments: ata4nik_5pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms captured
using 5pF load

                    ata4nik_30pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms
captured using 30pF load

Thanks & Best Regards,

Venu

<<ata4n1k_30pf.pdf>> <<ata4n1k_5pf.pdf>>=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different =
capacitive loads</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D938530712-13122005><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Venu,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D938530712-13122005><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D938530712-13122005><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>How long is the transmission line you're using =
... about=20
1ns?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D938530712-13122005><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D938530712-13122005><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Your IBIS driver in the 30pf case seems to be =
taking=20
several round-trips to charge the load where the HSpice driver doesn't - =
if this=20
is a programmable driver, is it possible the driver settings for the two =
plots=20
are different?&nbsp; In the top plot for the 30pf case, the IBIS driver =
looks=20
like a much weaker output with a faster slew rate to me =
...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D938530712-13122005><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D938530712-13122005><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Todd.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>
<DIV align=3Dleft><BR>Todd Westerhoff<BR>High Speed Design Group =
Manager<BR>Cisco=20
Systems<BR>1414 Massachusetts Ave<BR>Boxboro, MA=20
01719<BR>email:twesterh@cisco.com<BR>ph:=20
978-936-2149<BR>____________________________________________<BR>"Always =
do=20
right.<BR>&nbsp;This will gratify some people and astonish the =
rest."</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>- Mark Twain<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ummalaneni, Venu =
Babu=20
(Venu)<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:38 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [IBIS-Users] hspice =
vs IBIS=20
model correlation at different capacitive loads<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Hi</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>=20
Gurus,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN></P>
<P align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have an =
ATA* IBIS model=20
and it is correlating well</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> with hspice =
model</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> when =
I am=20
using</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> 5pF</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us> =
<FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>load followed by a transmission =
line.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If I =
replace=20
the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us> <FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>5pF load with</FONT> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>30pF</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us> <FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>correlation</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is =
bad</FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> (particularly in 2</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><SUP></SUP><SUP><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>nd</FONT></SUP></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>page =
waveform of=20
attached PDF)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could =
some one</FONT>=20
<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>comment</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> <FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>on this</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> where it is going =
wrong?</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Your</FONT> <FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>comments/</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>inputs</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> are highly appreciated.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Attachments</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>: ata4nik</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>_5pf.pdf</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&#8211;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
hspice</FONT> <FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>and IBIS model waveforms captured using 5pF=20
load</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us> =
<FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>ata4nik</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>_</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>30</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>pf.pdf</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us>=20
<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&#8211;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> hspice</FONT> <FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2>and=20
IBIS model waveforms captured using</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>30</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>pF=20
load</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN></P>
<P align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks =
&amp; Best=20
Regards,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Venu</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN></P>
<P align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&lt;&lt;ata4n1k_30pf.pdf&gt;&gt; </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&lt;&lt;ata4n1k_5pf.pdf&gt;&gt; </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us></SPAN></P></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:18:54 +0530
From: "Ummalaneni, Venu Babu \(Venu\)" <venubabu@agere.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive loads

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Todd,

=20

Thanks for your inputs.=20

=20

I have verified the programming options of driver and it's fine. Here, I
am attaching the correlation waveforms of the simulations by using a 0.1
ohm resistor instead of transmission line in both load (5pF & 30pF)
cases. Still, I am seeing a bad correlation in 30pF case.

=20

Please ignore my previously attached *.PDF.

=20

Once again thanks for your response.

=20

Best Reagrds,

Venu

=20

=20

- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd Westerhoff (twesterh) [mailto:twesterh@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:43 PM
To: Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu); ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads

=20

Venu,

=20

How long is the transmission line you're using ... about 1ns?

=20

Your IBIS driver in the 30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips
to charge the load where the HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a
programmable driver, is it possible the driver settings for the two
plots are different?  In the top plot for the 30pf case, the IBIS driver
looks like a much weaker output with a faster slew rate to me ...

=20

Todd.


Todd Westerhoff
High Speed Design Group Manager
Cisco Systems
1414 Massachusetts Ave
Boxboro, MA 01719
email:twesterh@cisco.com
ph: 978-936-2149
____________________________________________
"Always do right.
 This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."

=20

- - Mark Twain

=20

=20

  _____ =20

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On
Behalf Of Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:38 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads

Hi Gurus,

I have an ATA* IBIS model and it is correlating well with hspice model
when I am using a 5pF load followed by a transmission line. If I replace
the 5pF load with 30pF correlation is bad (particularly in 2nd page
waveform of attached PDF).=20

Could some one comment on this, where it is going wrong?

Your comments/inputs are highly appreciated.

Attachments: ata4nik_5pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms captured
using 5pF load

                    ata4nik_30pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms
captured using 30pF load

Thanks & Best Regards,

Venu

<<ata4n1k_30pf.pdf>> <<ata4n1k_5pf.pdf>>=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Todd,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for your inputs. =
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have verified the programming =
options of
driver and it&#8217;s fine. Here, I am attaching the correlation =
waveforms of
the simulations by using a 0.1 ohm resistor instead of transmission line =
in
both load (5pF &amp; 30pF) cases. Still, I am seeing a bad correlation =
in 30pF
case.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Please ignore my previously =
attached *.PDF.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Once again thanks for your =
response.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Best Reagrds,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Venu</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Todd Westerhoff =
(twesterh)
[mailto:twesterh@cisco.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> </span></font><font =
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Tuesday,
 December 13, 2005</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>5:43 PM</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Ummalaneni, Venu Babu =
(Venu);
ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [IBIS-Users] =
hspice
vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive =
loads</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Venu,</span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>How long is the
transmission line you're using ... about 1ns?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Your IBIS driver =
in the
30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips to charge the load =
where the
HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a programmable driver, is it possible =
the
driver settings for the two plots are different?&nbsp; In the top plot =
for the
30pf case, the IBIS driver looks like a much weaker output with a faster =
slew
rate to me ...</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Todd.</span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
Todd Westerhoff<br>
High Speed Design Group Manager<br>
Cisco Systems<br>
1414 Massachusetts Ave<br>
Boxboro, MA 01719<br>
email:twesterh@cisco.com<br>
ph: 978-936-2149<br>
____________________________________________<br>
&quot;Always do right.<br>
&nbsp;This will gratify some people and astonish the =
rest.&quot;</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>- Mark =
Twain</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> owner-ibis-users@eda.org
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf
Of </span></b>Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December =
13, 2005
5:38 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ibis-users@eda.org;
ibis@eda.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [IBIS-Users] =
hspice vs
IBIS model correlation at different capacitive loads</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->Hi =
Gurus,</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I have an ATA* IBIS model and it is =
correlating well
with hspice model when I am using a 5pF</span></font> <font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>load followed by a =
transmission
line.</span></font> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If I replace the</span></font> <font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>5pF load with</span></font> =
<font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>30pF</span></font>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>correlation</span></font>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>is bad
(particularly in 2<sup>nd</sup></span></font> <font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>page waveform of attached =
PDF). </span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Could some one</span></font> <font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>comment</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>on this, =
where it
is going wrong?</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Your</span></font> <font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>comments/inputs are highly
appreciated.</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Attachments: ata4nik_5pf.pdf</span></font> =
<font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8211;
hspice</span></font> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>and IBIS model waveforms captured using 5pF =
load</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></fon=
t>&nbsp;
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ata4nik_30pf.pdf</span></fon=
t>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8211;
hspice</span></font> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>and IBIS model waveforms captured using</span></font> =
<font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>30pF load</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thanks &amp; Best Regards,</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Venu</span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&lt;&lt;ata4n1k_=
30pf.pdf&gt;&gt;
&lt;&lt;ata4n1k_5pf.pdf&gt;&gt; </span></font></p>

</div>

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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:09:19 -0500
From: "Douglas Burns" <dburns@sisoft.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive loads

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive loadsVenu,

What version of HSPICE are you using for your simulations?
Are you using RAMP or VT data when running the IBIS model?

Doug
  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf
Of Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)
  Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:49 AM
  To: Todd Westerhoff (twesterh); ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
  Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads


  Todd,



  Thanks for your inputs.



  I have verified the programming options of driver and it's fine. Here, I
am attaching the correlation waveforms of the simulations by using a 0.1 ohm
resistor instead of transmission line in both load (5pF & 30pF) cases.
Still, I am seeing a bad correlation in 30pF case.



  Please ignore my previously attached *.PDF.



  Once again thanks for your response.



  Best Reagrds,

  Venu





  -----Original Message-----
  From: Todd Westerhoff (twesterh) [mailto:twesterh@cisco.com]
  Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:43 PM
  To: Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu); ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
  Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads



  Venu,



  How long is the transmission line you're using ... about 1ns?



  Your IBIS driver in the 30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips
to charge the load where the HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a
programmable driver, is it possible the driver settings for the two plots
are different?  In the top plot for the 30pf case, the IBIS driver looks
like a much weaker output with a faster slew rate to me ...



  Todd.


  Todd Westerhoff
  High Speed Design Group Manager
  Cisco Systems
  1414 Massachusetts Ave
  Boxboro, MA 01719
  email:twesterh@cisco.com
  ph: 978-936-2149
  ____________________________________________
  "Always do right.
   This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."



  - Mark Twain






- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --

  From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf
Of Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)
  Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:38 AM
  To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
  Subject: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads

  Hi Gurus,

  I have an ATA* IBIS model and it is correlating well with hspice model
when I am using a 5pF load followed by a transmission line. If I replace the
5pF load with 30pF correlation is bad (particularly in 2nd page waveform of
attached PDF).

  Could some one comment on this, where it is going wrong?

  Your comments/inputs are highly appreciated.

  Attachments: ata4nik_5pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms captured
using 5pF load

                      ata4nik_30pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms
captured using 30pF load

  Thanks & Best Regards,

  Venu

  <<ata4n1k_30pf.pdf>> <<ata4n1k_5pf.pdf>>

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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D627422113-13122005>Venu,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D627422113-13122005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D627422113-13122005>What=20
version of HSPICE are you using for your =
simulations?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D627422113-13122005>Are=20
you using RAMP or VT data when running the IBIS =
model?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D627422113-13122005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D627422113-13122005>Doug</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20
  [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ummalaneni, Venu =
Babu=20
  (Venu)<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:49 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Todd=20
  Westerhoff (twesterh); ibis-users@eda.org; =
ibis@eda.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
  [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive=20
  loads<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Todd,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for =
your=20
  inputs. </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have =
verified the=20
  programming options of driver and it&#8217;s fine. Here, I am =
attaching the=20
  correlation waveforms of the simulations by using a 0.1 ohm resistor =
instead=20
  of transmission line in both load (5pF &amp; 30pF) cases. Still, I am =
seeing a=20
  bad correlation in 30pF case.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Please =
ignore my=20
  previously attached *.PDF.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Once again =
thanks for=20
  your response.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Best=20
  Reagrds,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Venu</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
Todd=20
  Westerhoff (twesterh) [mailto:twesterh@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Tuesday, =
December=20
  13, 2005</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">5:43=20
  PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Ummalaneni, Venu Babu =
(Venu);=20
  ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [IBIS-Users] =
hspice vs IBIS=20
  model correlation at different capacitive loads</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Venu,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">How long=20
  is the transmission line you're using ... about 1ns?</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Your=20
  IBIS driver in the 30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips to =
charge=20
  the load where the HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a programmable =
driver,=20
  is it possible the driver settings for the two plots are =
different?&nbsp; In=20
  the top plot for the 30pf case, the IBIS driver looks like a much =
weaker=20
  output with a faster slew rate to me ...</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Todd.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>Todd =
Westerhoff<BR>High Speed=20
  Design Group Manager<BR>Cisco Systems<BR>1414 Massachusetts =
Ave<BR>Boxboro, MA=20
  01719<BR>email:twesterh@cisco.com<BR>ph:=20
  =
978-936-2149<BR>____________________________________________<BR>"Always =
do=20
  right.<BR>&nbsp;This will gratify some people and astonish the=20
  rest."</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- Mark =
Twain</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: =
center"=20
  align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
  style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">=20
  owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] <B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Ummalaneni, Venu =
Babu=20
  (Venu)<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> =
Tuesday,=20
  December 13, 2005 5:38 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
  ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [IBIS-Users] hspice vs =
IBIS=20
  model correlation at different capacitive loads</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!-- Converted from =
text/rtf format -->Hi=20
  Gurus,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have an ATA* IBIS =
model and it=20
  is correlating well with hspice model when I am using a =
5pF</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">load=20
  followed by a transmission line.</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If I replace =
the</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">5pF=20
  load with</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">30pF</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =

  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">correlation</SPAN></FONT> <FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">is bad=20
  (particularly in 2<SUP>nd</SUP></SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">page waveform of =
attached PDF).=20
  </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Could some =
one</SPAN></FONT> <FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">comment</SPAN></FONT> =
<FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">on this,=20
  where it is going wrong?</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Your</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =

  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">comments/inputs are =
highly=20
  appreciated.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Attachments:=20
  ata4nik_5pf.pdf</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8211; =
hspice</SPAN></FONT> <FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">and IBIS=20
  model waveforms captured using 5pF load</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;=20
  <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">ata4nik_30pf.pdf</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8211;=20
  hspice</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">and IBIS model waveforms =
captured=20
  using</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">30pF =
load</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks &amp; Best=20
  Regards,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Venu</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&lt;&lt;ata4n1k_30pf.pdf&gt;&gt;=20
  &lt;&lt;ata4n1k_5pf.pdf&gt;&gt;=20
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:03:28 -0800
From: "Tom Dagostino" <tom@teraspeed.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive loads

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive loadsAre both
simulations using the same package parasitics?

Tom Dagostino
Teraspeed(R) Labs
13610 SW Harness Lane
Beaverton, OR 97008
503-430-1065
tom@teraspeed.com
www.teraspeed.com

Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
121 North River Drive
Narragansett, RI 02882
401-284-1827

  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]On Behalf
Of Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)
  Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:49 AM
  To: Todd Westerhoff (twesterh); ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
  Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads


  Todd,



  Thanks for your inputs.



  I have verified the programming options of driver and it's fine. Here, I
am attaching the correlation waveforms of the simulations by using a 0.1 ohm
resistor instead of transmission line in both load (5pF & 30pF) cases.
Still, I am seeing a bad correlation in 30pF case.



  Please ignore my previously attached *.PDF.



  Once again thanks for your response.



  Best Reagrds,

  Venu





  -----Original Message-----
  From: Todd Westerhoff (twesterh) [mailto:twesterh@cisco.com]
  Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:43 PM
  To: Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu); ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
  Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads



  Venu,



  How long is the transmission line you're using ... about 1ns?



  Your IBIS driver in the 30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips
to charge the load where the HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a
programmable driver, is it possible the driver settings for the two plots
are different?  In the top plot for the 30pf case, the IBIS driver looks
like a much weaker output with a faster slew rate to me ...



  Todd.


  Todd Westerhoff
  High Speed Design Group Manager
  Cisco Systems
  1414 Massachusetts Ave
  Boxboro, MA 01719
  email:twesterh@cisco.com
  ph: 978-936-2149
  ____________________________________________
  "Always do right.
   This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."



  - Mark Twain






- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --

  From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf
Of Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)
  Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:38 AM
  To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
  Subject: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads

  Hi Gurus,

  I have an ATA* IBIS model and it is correlating well with hspice model
when I am using a 5pF load followed by a transmission line. If I replace the
5pF load with 30pF correlation is bad (particularly in 2nd page waveform of
attached PDF).

  Could some one comment on this, where it is going wrong?

  Your comments/inputs are highly appreciated.

  Attachments: ata4nik_5pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms captured
using 5pF load

                      ata4nik_30pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms
captured using 30pF load

  Thanks & Best Regards,

  Venu

  <<ata4n1k_30pf.pdf>> <<ata4n1k_5pf.pdf>>

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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D168340117-13122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Are=20
both simulations using the same package parasitics?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Tom Dagostino<BR>Teraspeed(R) Labs<BR>13610 SW Harness =

Lane<BR>Beaverton, OR=20
97008<BR>503-430-1065<BR>tom@teraspeed.com<BR>www.teraspeed.com<BR><BR>Te=
raspeed=20
Consulting Group LLC<BR>121 North River Drive<BR>Narragansett, RI=20
02882<BR>401-284-1827</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20
  [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ummalaneni, Venu =
Babu=20
  (Venu)<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:49 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Todd=20
  Westerhoff (twesterh); ibis-users@eda.org; =
ibis@eda.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
  [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive=20
  loads<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Todd,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for =
your=20
  inputs. </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have =
verified the=20
  programming options of driver and it&#8217;s fine. Here, I am =
attaching the=20
  correlation waveforms of the simulations by using a 0.1 ohm resistor =
instead=20
  of transmission line in both load (5pF &amp; 30pF) cases. Still, I am =
seeing a=20
  bad correlation in 30pF case.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Please =
ignore my=20
  previously attached *.PDF.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Once again =
thanks for=20
  your response.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Best=20
  Reagrds,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Venu</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
Todd=20
  Westerhoff (twesterh) [mailto:twesterh@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Tuesday, =
December=20
  13, 2005</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">5:43=20
  PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Ummalaneni, Venu Babu =
(Venu);=20
  ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [IBIS-Users] =
hspice vs IBIS=20
  model correlation at different capacitive loads</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Venu,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">How long=20
  is the transmission line you're using ... about 1ns?</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Your=20
  IBIS driver in the 30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips to =
charge=20
  the load where the HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a programmable =
driver,=20
  is it possible the driver settings for the two plots are =
different?&nbsp; In=20
  the top plot for the 30pf case, the IBIS driver looks like a much =
weaker=20
  output with a faster slew rate to me ...</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Todd.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>Todd =
Westerhoff<BR>High Speed=20
  Design Group Manager<BR>Cisco Systems<BR>1414 Massachusetts =
Ave<BR>Boxboro, MA=20
  01719<BR>email:twesterh@cisco.com<BR>ph:=20
  =
978-936-2149<BR>____________________________________________<BR>"Always =
do=20
  right.<BR>&nbsp;This will gratify some people and astonish the=20
  rest."</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- Mark =
Twain</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: =
center"=20
  align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
  style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">=20
  owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] <B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Ummalaneni, Venu =
Babu=20
  (Venu)<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> =
Tuesday,=20
  December 13, 2005 5:38 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
  ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [IBIS-Users] hspice vs =
IBIS=20
  model correlation at different capacitive loads</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!-- Converted from =
text/rtf format -->Hi=20
  Gurus,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have an ATA* IBIS =
model and it=20
  is correlating well with hspice model when I am using a =
5pF</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">load=20
  followed by a transmission line.</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If I replace =
the</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">5pF=20
  load with</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">30pF</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =

  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">correlation</SPAN></FONT> <FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">is bad=20
  (particularly in 2<SUP>nd</SUP></SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">page waveform of =
attached PDF).=20
  </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Could some =
one</SPAN></FONT> <FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">comment</SPAN></FONT> =
<FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">on this,=20
  where it is going wrong?</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Your</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =

  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">comments/inputs are =
highly=20
  appreciated.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Attachments:=20
  ata4nik_5pf.pdf</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8211; =
hspice</SPAN></FONT> <FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">and IBIS=20
  model waveforms captured using 5pF load</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;=20
  <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">ata4nik_30pf.pdf</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8211;=20
  hspice</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">and IBIS model waveforms =
captured=20
  using</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">30pF =
load</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks &amp; Best=20
  Regards,</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Venu</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&lt;&lt;ata4n1k_30pf.pdf&gt;&gt;=20
  &lt;&lt;ata4n1k_5pf.pdf&gt;&gt;=20
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:39:23 -0800
From: "Beal, Weston" <weston_beal@mentor.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive loads

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Venu,
=20
From your first waveforms it appears that the timestep could be an
issue. It is less apparent from your second set of waveforms, though.
Unfortunately, you can't specify a fixed timestep in Hspice, that I know
of, but you can set a maximum timestep. I don't remember the option off
the top of my head, but I'm sure you can find it in the manual. Set this
to something small enough that both simulations are forced to use nearly
the same timestep and see if the correlation gets a little better.
=20
There are other issues that other experts here have already identified
that are worth looking in to.
=20
Regards,
Weston
=20

________________________________

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On
Behalf Of Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:49 AM
To: Todd Westerhoff (twesterh); ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads



Todd,

=20

Thanks for your inputs.=20

=20

I have verified the programming options of driver and it's fine. Here, I
am attaching the correlation waveforms of the simulations by using a 0.1
ohm resistor instead of transmission line in both load (5pF & 30pF)
cases. Still, I am seeing a bad correlation in 30pF case.

=20

Please ignore my previously attached *.PDF.

=20

Once again thanks for your response.

=20

Best Reagrds,

Venu

=20

=20

- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd Westerhoff (twesterh) [mailto:twesterh@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:43 PM
To: Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu); ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads

=20

Venu,

=20

How long is the transmission line you're using ... about 1ns?

=20

Your IBIS driver in the 30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips
to charge the load where the HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a
programmable driver, is it possible the driver settings for the two
plots are different?  In the top plot for the 30pf case, the IBIS driver
looks like a much weaker output with a faster slew rate to me ...

=20

Todd.


Todd Westerhoff
High Speed Design Group Manager
Cisco Systems
1414 Massachusetts Ave
Boxboro, MA 01719
email:twesterh@cisco.com
ph: 978-936-2149
____________________________________________
"Always do right.
 This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."

=20

- - Mark Twain

=20

=20

________________________________

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On
Behalf Of Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:38 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads

Hi Gurus,

I have an ATA* IBIS model and it is correlating well with hspice model
when I am using a 5pF load followed by a transmission line. If I replace
the 5pF load with 30pF correlation is bad (particularly in 2nd page
waveform of attached PDF).=20

Could some one comment on this, where it is going wrong?

Your comments/inputs are highly appreciated.

Attachments: ata4nik_5pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms captured
using 5pF load

                    ata4nik_30pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms
captured using 30pF load

Thanks & Best Regards,

Venu

<<ata4n1k_30pf.pdf>> <<ata4n1k_5pf.pdf>>=20


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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different =
capacitive loads</TITLE>
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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D823173521-13122005>Venu,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D823173521-13122005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D823173521-13122005>From your first waveforms it appears that the =
timestep=20
could be an issue. It is less apparent from your second set of =
waveforms,=20
though. Unfortunately, you can't specify a fixed timestep in Hspice, =
that I know=20
of, but you can set a maximum timestep. I don't remember the option off =
the top=20
of my head, but I'm sure you can find it in the manual. Set this to =
something=20
small enough that both simulations are&nbsp;forced to use =
nearly&nbsp;the same=20
timestep and see if the correlation gets a little =
better.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D823173521-13122005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D823173521-13122005>There are other issues that other experts =
here have=20
already identified that are worth looking in to.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D823173521-13122005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D823173521-13122005>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D823173521-13122005>Weston</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D823173521-13122005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ummalaneni, Venu =
Babu=20
(Venu)<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:49 AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
Todd=20
Westerhoff (twesterh); ibis-users@eda.org; =
ibis@eda.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
[IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive=20
loads<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Todd,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for =
your inputs.=20
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have =
verified the=20
programming options of driver and it&#8217;s fine. Here, I am attaching =
the=20
correlation waveforms of the simulations by using a 0.1 ohm resistor =
instead of=20
transmission line in both load (5pF &amp; 30pF) cases. Still, I am =
seeing a bad=20
correlation in 30pF case.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Please ignore =
my=20
previously attached *.PDF.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Once again =
thanks for=20
your response.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Best=20
Reagrds,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Venu</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
Todd=20
Westerhoff (twesterh) [mailto:twesterh@cisco.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Tuesday, =
December 13,=20
2005</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">5:43=20
PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu); =

ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice =
vs IBIS=20
model correlation at different capacitive loads</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Venu,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">How long=20
is the transmission line you're using ... about 1ns?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Your IBIS=20
driver in the 30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips to charge =
the=20
load where the HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a programmable driver, =
is it=20
possible the driver settings for the two plots are different?&nbsp; In =
the top=20
plot for the 30pf case, the IBIS driver looks like a much weaker output =
with a=20
faster slew rate to me ...</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Todd.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>Todd =
Westerhoff<BR>High Speed=20
Design Group Manager<BR>Cisco Systems<BR>1414 Massachusetts =
Ave<BR>Boxboro, MA=20
01719<BR>email:twesterh@cisco.com<BR>ph:=20
978-936-2149<BR>____________________________________________<BR>"Always =
do=20
right.<BR>&nbsp;This will gratify some people and astonish the=20
rest."</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- Mark =
Twain</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center"=20
align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><B><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">=20
owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] <B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Ummalaneni, Venu =
Babu=20
(Venu)<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, =
December=20
13, 2005 5:38 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [IBIS-Users] hspice vs =
IBIS model=20
correlation at different capacitive loads</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!-- Converted from =
text/rtf format -->Hi=20
Gurus,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have an ATA* IBIS model =
and it is=20
correlating well with hspice model when I am using a 5pF</SPAN></FONT> =
<FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">load=20
followed by a transmission line.</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If I replace =
the</SPAN></FONT> <FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">5pF load=20
with</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">30pF</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">correlation</SPAN></FONT> =
<FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">is bad=20
(particularly in 2<SUP>nd</SUP></SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">page waveform of attached =
PDF).=20
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Could some =
one</SPAN></FONT> <FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">comment</SPAN></FONT> =
<FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">on this,=20
where it is going wrong?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Your</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">comments/inputs are=20
highly appreciated.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Attachments:=20
ata4nik_5pf.pdf</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&#8211; =
hspice</SPAN></FONT> <FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">and IBIS=20
model waveforms captured using 5pF load</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;=20
<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">ata4nik_30pf.pdf</SPAN></FONT> <FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&#8211;=20
hspice</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">and IBIS model waveforms =
captured=20
using</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">30pF =
load</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks &amp; Best=20
Regards,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Venu</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&lt;&lt;ata4n1k_30pf.pdf&gt;&gt;=20
&lt;&lt;ata4n1k_5pf.pdf&gt;&gt; </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:19:45 +0200
From: "Itzik Peleg" <itzikpe@marvell.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS] RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive loads

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Hello Venu

=20

Just to add one more possibility doe's your buffer has a feedback?

Could you attached the IBIS model, or show the I(V) and V(t) curves?

=20

- --
Regards
=20
Itzik Peleg
Board Technology Group
=20
Marvell Semiconductor Israel Ltd
6 Hamada Street=20

Mordot HaCarmel Industrial Park

Yokneam 20692, ISRAEL
=20
Email - itzikpe@marvell.com
Tel   - +972 4  9091192
Cell  - +972 54 4452482
Fax   - +972 4  9091501
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________________________________


From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of
Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 2:49 PM
To: Todd Westerhoff (twesterh); ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS] RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at
different capacitive loads

=20

Todd,

=20

Thanks for your inputs.=20

=20

I have verified the programming options of driver and it's fine. Here, I
am attaching the correlation waveforms of the simulations by using a 0.1
ohm resistor instead of transmission line in both load (5pF & 30pF)
cases. Still, I am seeing a bad correlation in 30pF case.

=20

Please ignore my previously attached *.PDF.

=20

Once again thanks for your response.

=20

Best Reagrds,

Venu

=20

=20

- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd Westerhoff (twesterh) [mailto:twesterh@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:43 PM
To: Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu); ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads

=20

Venu,

=20

How long is the transmission line you're using ... about 1ns?

=20

Your IBIS driver in the 30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips
to charge the load where the HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a
programmable driver, is it possible the driver settings for the two
plots are different?  In the top plot for the 30pf case, the IBIS driver
looks like a much weaker output with a faster slew rate to me ...

=20

Todd.


Todd Westerhoff
High Speed Design Group Manager
Cisco Systems
1414 Massachusetts Ave
Boxboro, MA 01719
email:twesterh@cisco.com
ph: 978-936-2149
____________________________________________
"Always do right.
 This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."

=20

- - Mark Twain

=20

=20

________________________________

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On
Behalf Of Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 5:38 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different
capacitive loads

Hi Gurus,

I have an ATA* IBIS model and it is correlating well with hspice model
when I am using a 5pF load followed by a transmission line. If I replace
the 5pF load with 30pF correlation is bad (particularly in 2nd page
waveform of attached PDF).=20

Could some one comment on this, where it is going wrong?

Your comments/inputs are highly appreciated.

Attachments: ata4nik_5pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms captured
using 5pF load

                    ata4nik_30pf.pdf - hspice and IBIS model waveforms
captured using 30pF load

Thanks & Best Regards,

Venu

<<ata4n1k_30pf.pdf>> <<ata4n1k_5pf.pdf>>=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hello =
Venu<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Just to add one more possibility =
doe&#8217;s
your buffer has a feedback?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Could you attached the IBIS model, =
or show
the I(V) and V(t) curves?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div><pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:navy'>--<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
re><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pr=
e><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Itzik =
Peleg<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Board Technology =
Group<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pr=
e><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Marvell Semiconductor Israel =
Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>6 Hamada Street <br>
Mordot HaCarmel Industrial Park<br>
Yokneam 20692, ISRAEL<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
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href=3D"mailto:itzikpe@marvell.com" =
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<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December =
13, 2005
2:49 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Todd Westerhoff =
(twesterh);
ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [IBIS] RE: =
[IBIS-Users]
hspice vs IBIS model correlation at different capacitive =
loads</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Todd,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for your inputs. =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have verified the programming =
options of
driver and it&#8217;s fine. Here, I am attaching the correlation =
waveforms of the
simulations by using a 0.1 ohm resistor instead of transmission line in =
both
load (5pF &amp; 30pF) cases. Still, I am seeing a bad correlation in =
30pF case.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Please ignore my previously =
attached
*.PDF.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Once again thanks for your =
response.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Best =
Reagrds,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Venu</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Todd Westerhoff =
(twesterh)
[mailto:twesterh@cisco.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December =
13, 2005
5:43 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Ummalaneni, Venu Babu =
(Venu);
ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [IBIS-Users] =
hspice vs
IBIS model correlation at different capacitive =
loads</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Venu,</span></fon=
t><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>How long is the
transmission line you're using ... about =
1ns?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Your IBIS driver =
in the
30pf case seems to be taking several round-trips to charge the load =
where the
HSpice driver doesn't - if this is a programmable driver, is it possible =
the
driver settings for the two plots are different?&nbsp; In the top plot =
for the
30pf case, the IBIS driver looks like a much weaker output with a faster =
slew
rate to me ...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Todd.</span></fon=
t><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
Todd Westerhoff<br>
High Speed Design Group Manager<br>
Cisco Systems<br>
<st1:Street w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">1414 Massachusetts =
Ave</st1:address></st1:Street><br>
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Boxboro</st1:City>, =
<st1:State w:st=3D"on">MA</st1:State>
 <st1:PostalCode w:st=3D"on">01719</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
email:twesterh@cisco.com<br>
ph: 978-936-2149<br>
____________________________________________<br>
&quot;Always do right.<br>
&nbsp;This will gratify some people and astonish the =
rest.&quot;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o=
:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>- Mark =
Twain</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ummalaneni, Venu Babu =
(Venu)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December =
13, 2005
5:38 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ibis-users@eda.org;
ibis@eda.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [IBIS-Users] =
hspice vs
IBIS model correlation at different capacitive =
loads</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->Hi =
Gurus,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I have an ATA* IBIS model and it is =
correlating well
with hspice model when I am using a 5pF</span></font> <font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>load followed by a =
transmission
line.</span></font> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If I replace the</span></font> <font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>5pF load with</span></font> =
<font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>30pF</span></font>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>correlation</span></font>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>is bad
(particularly in 2<sup>nd</sup></span></font> <font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>page waveform of attached =
PDF). </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Could some one</span></font> <font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>comment</span></font> <font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>on this, =
where it
is going wrong?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Your</span></font> <font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>comments/inputs are highly
appreciated.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Attachments: ata4nik_5pf.pdf</span></font> =
<font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8211;
hspice</span></font> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>and IBIS model waveforms captured using 5pF =
load</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></fon=
t>&nbsp;
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ata4nik_30pf.pdf</span></fon=
t>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8211;
hspice</span></font> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>and IBIS model waveforms captured using</span></font> =
<font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>30pF =
load</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thanks &amp; Best =
Regards,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Venu</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&lt;&lt;ata4n1k_=
30pf.pdf&gt;&gt;
&lt;&lt;ata4n1k_5pf.pdf&gt;&gt; </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:22:14 -0700
From: rrwolff@micron.com
Subject: [IBIS-Users] [IBIS] Open forum Summit minutes (12/06/05)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Attached are the minutes of the Tuesday, December 6, 2005 Asian IBIS
Open Forum Summit meeting held in Shenzhen, China.

Randy Wolff
IBIS Open Forum Secretary


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End of ibis-users V1 #70
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