To capture the delay variation with change in IO voltage

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #77 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Precedence: bulk ibis-users Tuesday, February 7 2006 Volume 01 : Number 077 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:26:45 +0530 From: "Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)" Subject: [IBIS-Users] To capture the delay variation with change in IO voltage This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62BD5.2FE758FB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C62BD5.2FE758FB" - ------_=_NextPart_002_01C62BD5.2FE758FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gurus, I have generated an IBIS model using rated IO voltage(1.5V) and simulated it at the same IO voltage(1.5V); the matching between=20 hspice vs IBIS is very good (1st waveform in attached *.pdf). When I simulated the same IBIS model with reduced IO voltage (1.1v),=20 the matching is poor (2nd waveform) between IBIS and hspice models. IBIS model is not able to capture the delay variation with supply voltage variation. Next, I have re-generated the IBIS model with reduced IO voltage(1.1V) and the simulation at this voltage(1.1V) gives good matching=20 (3rd waveform) between IBIS and hspice models. Means IBIS model can not be used to see the variation in delay with the ripples on IO voltage? Is it known limitation? Are there any techniques/methods exist to build an IBIS model, which can be used to simulate at an IO voltage lesser/greater than the voltage at which it is build? Here, I am attaching a PDF of the waveforms I observed. Could some one help me in clarifying the above queries? Thanks in advance. Best Regards, Venu <>=20 - ------_=_NextPart_002_01C62BD5.2FE758FB Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To capture the delay variation with change in IO voltage

Hi Gurus,

I have generated = an IBIS model using = rated = IO voltage(1.5V) and = simulated it at the same IO voltage(1.5V); = the matching = between =

hspice vs IBIS is very good (1^st waveform = in attached *.pdf). = When I = simulated the same = IBIS model with reduced IO voltage (1.1v),

the matching is poor (2^nd waveform) between = IBIS and hspice = models. IBIS = model is not able to capture the delay variation with supply voltage variation.

Next, I have = re-generated the IBIS model with reduced IO voltage(1.1V) = and the = simulation at this = voltage(1.1V) gives = good matching

(3rd waveform) between = IBIS and hspice models.

Means IBIS = model can not be used to = see the variation in delay with the ripples = on IO voltage? Is it = known limitation?

Are there = any techniques/methods exist to build an IBIS model, which = can be used to simulate at an = IO

voltage lesser/greater = than the voltage at which it is build?

Here, I am attaching a = PDF of = the waveforms I = observed.

Could some one help me in clarifying the above queries?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,

Venu

<<ibis_hspice_delay.pdf>> =

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|------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:26:45 +0530 From: "Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)" Subject: [IBIS-Users] [IBIS] To capture the delay variation with change in IO voltage This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62BD5.2FE758FB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C62BD5.2FE758FB" - ------_=_NextPart_002_01C62BD5.2FE758FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gurus, I have generated an IBIS model using rated IO voltage(1.5V) and simulated it at the same IO voltage(1.5V); the matching between=20 hspice vs IBIS is very good (1st waveform in attached *.pdf). When I simulated the same IBIS model with reduced IO voltage (1.1v),=20 the matching is poor (2nd waveform) between IBIS and hspice models. IBIS model is not able to capture the delay variation with supply voltage variation. Next, I have re-generated the IBIS model with reduced IO voltage(1.1V) and the simulation at this voltage(1.1V) gives good matching=20 (3rd waveform) between IBIS and hspice models. Means IBIS model can not be used to see the variation in delay with the ripples on IO voltage? Is it known limitation? Are there any techniques/methods exist to build an IBIS model, which can be used to simulate at an IO voltage lesser/greater than the voltage at which it is build? Here, I am attaching a PDF of the waveforms I observed. Could some one help me in clarifying the above queries? Thanks in advance. Best Regards, Venu <>=20 - ------_=_NextPart_002_01C62BD5.2FE758FB Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To capture the delay variation with change in IO voltage

Hi Gurus,

I have generated = an IBIS model using = rated = IO voltage(1.5V) and = simulated it at the same IO voltage(1.5V); = the matching = between =

hspice vs IBIS is very good (1^st waveform = in attached *.pdf). = When I = simulated the same = IBIS model with reduced IO voltage (1.1v),

the matching is poor (2^nd waveform) between = IBIS and hspice = models. IBIS = model is not able to capture the delay variation with supply voltage variation.

Next, I have = re-generated the IBIS model with reduced IO voltage(1.1V) = and the = simulation at this = voltage(1.1V) gives = good matching

(3rd waveform) between = IBIS and hspice models.

Means IBIS = model can not be used to = see the variation in delay with the ripples = on IO voltage? Is it = known limitation?

Are there = any techniques/methods exist to build an IBIS model, which = can be used to simulate at an = IO

voltage lesser/greater = than the voltage at which it is build?

Here, I am attaching a = PDF of = the waveforms I = observed.

Could some one help me in clarifying the above queries?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,

Venu

<<ibis_hspice_delay.pdf>> =

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MDQzIDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMTk3NzYgMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAwMDAxNSAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAw MDE5Njg0IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMjAzMTIgMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAyMDE3NiAwMDAwMCBuIAow MDAwMDIwMjQ3IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMjAwOTggMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAxOTcwNSAwMDAwMCBu IAowMDAwMDE5NzM1IDAwMDAwIG4gCnRyYWlsZXIKPDwgL1NpemUgMTQgL1Jvb3QgMSAwIFIgL0lu Zm8gMiAwIFIKPj4Kc3RhcnR4cmVmCjIwNDIzCiUlRU9GCg== - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62BD5.2FE758FB-- - ----------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:53:28 +0530 From: Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62BE1.4DEB867D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Arpad , =0D =0D I am not doing simulation on IBIS file but in the procedure to generate IBIS model of VT data i.e Rising and Falling connecting to VSS that means the plot which you saw was spice3 simulation result done on the spice netlist using 2 decks one for Rising and one for Falling. As I don't have permissions to send this decks and inputs for generation of IBIS I could not send across. =0D Hope this clear your point spice3 does not have feature to simulate IBIS model. =0D =0D Best Regards Kiran Kumar =0D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:00 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction =0D Kiran, =0D I am not sure whether you answered my question correctly. I was wondering what simulator did you use to simulate the IBIS model, not what simulator you used to generate the Vt data for the IBIS model. =0D Does spice3 have an IBIS buffer element? =0D Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =0D ________________________________ From: seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com [mailto:seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com]=0D Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 8:21 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction Arpad, =0D This data for plot is generated using spice3=0D =0D Best Regards Kiran Kumar =0D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:06 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction =0D Kiran, =0D Which simulator did you use when you made this waveform? =0D Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =0D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 3:19 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction Hi IBIS Experts, =0D I have an query in IBIS modeling about extracting VT data,=0D I am generating model for one buffer which is having its output swing from +0.21V to -0.21V, But as you see in the Plot for=0D Rising (if the i/p pulse is Rising ) then it is giving proper switching (Red coloured)=0D But in Falling (if the i/p pulse is falling) then for 1 st pulse it is not going down and reaching to -0.21V even I tried giving very low frequency i/p signal(Green coloured). =0D Here my doubt is why IBIS takes first 1/4 th of Pulseperiod of i/p signal, is there any reason in that?=0D =0D If there is no any constraint on this as I am seeing the good performance in second pulse onwards I can do a X-axis shift (Time shift) of the second Falling Pulse. =0D I wanted this clarification because I am not aware of internal architecture which causing this problem in the netlist(input) which I am using for generation. =0D Thanks in Advance =0D Best Regards Kiran Kumar =0D The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.=0D WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com =0D The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.=0D WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com =0D The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to= this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and= may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you= are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or= copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all= copies of this message and any attachments.=0D WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient= should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses.= The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus= transmitted by this email. =0D www.wipro.com - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62BE1.4DEB867D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Arpad , =

I= am not doing simulation on IBIS file but in the procedure to generate IBIS= model of VT data i.e Rising and Falling connecting to VSS that means the plot which you saw was spice3= simulation result done on the spice= netlist using 2 decks one for Rising and one for Falling. As I don’t have= permissions to send this decks and inputs for generation of IBIS I could not send= across.

Hope this clear your point= spice3 does not have feature to simulate IBIS= model.

Best= Regards

Kiran= Kumar

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Monday, February 06,= 2006 10:00 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users]= issue in VT extraction

Kiran,

I am not sure whether you answered my= question

correctly. I was wondering what simulator= did

you use to simulate the IBIS model, not= what

simulator you used to generate the Vt= data

for the IBIS model.

Does spice3 have an IBIS buffer= element?

Arpad

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com [mailto:seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 02,= 2006 8:21 PM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users]= issue in VT extraction

Arpad,

&n= bsp; This data for plot is generated using spice3

Best= Regards

Kiran= Kumar

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Thursday, February 02,= 2006 10:06 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users]= issue in VT extraction

Kiran,

Which simulator did you use= when

you made this= waveform?

Arpad

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of= seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com
Sent: Thursday, February 02,= 2006 3:19 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] issue= in VT extraction

Hi IBIS Experts,

I have an query in IBIS modeling about extracting VT data,

I am generating model for one buffer which is having its output= swing from +0.21V to -0.21V, But as you see in the Plot for=

Rising (if the i/p pulse is Rising ) then it is giving= proper switching (Red coloured)

But in Falling= (if the i/p pulse is falling)= then for 1 st pulse it is not going down and reaching to= -0.21V even I tried giving very low frequency i/p signal(Green= coloured).

Here my doubt is why IBIS takes first= 1/4 th of Pulseperiod of i/p signal, is there any reason in that?=

If there is no any constraint on this as I am seeing= the good performance in second pulse onwards I can do a X-axis shift= (Time shift) of the second Falling Pulse.

I wanted this clarification because I am not aware of internal architecture which causing this problem in the netlist(input) which I am= using for generation.

Thanks in Advance

Best Regards

Kiran Kumar

The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments= to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and= may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are= not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy= this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of= this message and any attachments.

WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient= should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The= company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by= this email.

www.wipro.com

The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to= this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and= may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you= are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or= copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all= copies of this message and any attachments.

WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient= should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses.= The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus= transmitted by this email.

www.wipro.com

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62BE1.4DEB867D-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:26:45 +0530 From: "Ummalaneni, Venu Babu (Venu)" Subject: [IBIS-Users] To capture the delay variation with change in IO voltage This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62BD5.2FE758FB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C62BD5.2FE758FB" - ------_=_NextPart_002_01C62BD5.2FE758FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gurus, I have generated an IBIS model using rated IO voltage(1.5V) and simulated it at the same IO voltage(1.5V); the matching between=20 hspice vs IBIS is very good (1st waveform in attached *.pdf). When I simulated the same IBIS model with reduced IO voltage (1.1v),=20 the matching is poor (2nd waveform) between IBIS and hspice models. IBIS model is not able to capture the delay variation with supply voltage variation. Next, I have re-generated the IBIS model with reduced IO voltage(1.1V) and the simulation at this voltage(1.1V) gives good matching=20 (3rd waveform) between IBIS and hspice models. Means IBIS model can not be used to see the variation in delay with the ripples on IO voltage? Is it known limitation? Are there any techniques/methods exist to build an IBIS model, which can be used to simulate at an IO voltage lesser/greater than the voltage at which it is build? Here, I am attaching a PDF of the waveforms I observed. Could some one help me in clarifying the above queries? Thanks in advance. Best Regards, Venu <>=20 - ------_=_NextPart_002_01C62BD5.2FE758FB Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To capture the delay variation with change in IO voltage

Hi Gurus,

I have generated = an IBIS model using = rated = IO voltage(1.5V) and = simulated it at the same IO voltage(1.5V); = the matching = between =

hspice vs IBIS is very good (1^st waveform = in attached *.pdf). = When I = simulated the same = IBIS model with reduced IO voltage (1.1v),

the matching is poor (2^nd waveform) between = IBIS and hspice = models. IBIS = model is not able to capture the delay variation with supply voltage variation.

Next, I have = re-generated the IBIS model with reduced IO voltage(1.1V) = and the = simulation at this = voltage(1.1V) gives = good matching

(3rd waveform) between = IBIS and hspice models.

Means IBIS = model can not be used to = see the variation in delay with the ripples = on IO voltage? Is it = known limitation?

Are there = any techniques/methods exist to build an IBIS model, which = can be used to simulate at an = IO

voltage lesser/greater = than the voltage at which it is build?

Here, I am attaching a = PDF of = the waveforms I = observed.

Could some one help me in clarifying the above queries?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,

Venu

<<ibis_hspice_delay.pdf>> =

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|------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:31:25 -0800 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62C0C.5245E4C9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kiran, =20 I understand that you can't send us your circuit files, don't worry about that... =20 It sounds like your SPICE model may have flip/flop-s in it, and the first transition gives you an incorrect voltage because SPICE doesn't initialize all nodes correctly, and consequently there may be some internal contentions inside the circuit. After the first transition the f/f-s are in a "known state" and from there on your waveforms are correct. =20 This may only show up on one side of the differential output because they are in a complementary state, and by chance it may be possible that the f/f for one output happened to=20 start in the correct state, but the f/f for the other output didn't (since it had to be in the opposite state). =20 As Lynne wrote, there is no requirement that you take the first transition of this simulation for the IBIS model data. To the contrary, for these and similar reasons we usually prefer to take the data from later transitions when the buffer is more in the "steady state" conditions. =20 I hope this will help you in your work. =20 Arpad - ------------------------------------------------------------ =20 ________________________________ From: seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com = [mailto:seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:23 AM To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction Arpad , =20 =20 I am not doing simulation on IBIS file but in the procedure to = generate IBIS model of VT data i.e Rising and Falling connecting to VSS = that means the plot which you saw was spice3 simulation result done on = the spice netlist using 2 decks one for Rising and one for Falling. As I = don't have permissions to send this decks and inputs for generation of = IBIS I could not send across. =20 Hope this clear your point spice3 does not have feature to simulate = IBIS model. =20 =20 Best Regards Kiran Kumar =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On = Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:00 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction =20 Kiran, =20 I am not sure whether you answered my question correctly. I was wondering what simulator did you use to simulate the IBIS model, not what simulator you used to generate the Vt data for the IBIS model. =20 Does spice3 have an IBIS buffer element? =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ________________________________ From: seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com = [mailto:seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 8:21 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction Arpad, =20 This data for plot is generated using spice3=20 =20 Best Regards Kiran Kumar =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On = Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:06 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction =20 Kiran, =20 Which simulator did you use when you made this waveform? =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On = Behalf Of seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 3:19 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction Hi IBIS Experts, =20 I have an query in IBIS modeling about extracting VT data,=20 I am generating model for one buffer which is having its output swing = from +0.21V to -0.21V, But as you see in the Plot for=20 Rising (if the i/p pulse is Rising ) then it is giving proper switching = (Red coloured)=20 But in Falling (if the i/p pulse is falling) then for 1 st pulse it is = not going down and reaching to -0.21V even I tried giving very low = frequency i/p signal(Green coloured). =20 Here my doubt is why IBIS takes first 1/4 th of Pulseperiod of i/p = signal, is there any reason in that?=20 =20 If there is no any constraint on this as I am seeing the good = performance in second pulse onwards I can do a X-axis shift (Time = shift) of the second Falling Pulse. =20 I wanted this clarification because I am not aware of internal = architecture which causing this problem in the netlist(input) which I am = using for generation. =20 Thanks in Advance =20 Best Regards Kiran Kumar =20 The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments = to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) = and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If = you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, = distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and = destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.=20 WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient = should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. = The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus = transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com =20 The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments = to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) = and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If = you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, = distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and = destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.=20 WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient = should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. = The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus = transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com =20 The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments = to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) = and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If = you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, = distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and = destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.=20 WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient = should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. = The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus = transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com =09 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62C0C.5245E4C9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kiran,

I understand that you can't send us your = circuit files,=20 don't

worry about that...

It sounds like your SPICE model may have = flip/flop-s in=20 it,

and the first transition gives you an = incorrect=20 voltage

because SPICE doesn't initialize all nodes = correctly,=20 and

consequently there may be some internal = contentions=20 inside

the circuit. After the first transition = the f/f-s=20 are in

a "known state" and from there on your = waveforms are=20 correct.

This may only show up on one side of the = differential=20 output

because they are in a complementary state, = and by=20 chance it

may be possible that the f/f for one output = happened to=20

start in the correct state, but the f/f for = the other=20 output

didn't (since it had to be in the opposite=20 state).

As Lynne wrote, there is no requirement that = you take=20 the

first transition of this simulation for the = IBIS=20 model

data. To the contrary, for these and = similar=20 reasons we

usually prefer to take the data from later=20 transitions

when the buffer is more in the "steady state" = conditions.

I hope this will help you in your=20 work.

Arpad

----------------------------------------------= - --------------

From: seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com=20 [mailto:seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com]
Sent: Tuesday, = February 07,=20 2006 4:23 AM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org;=20 ibis@eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue in VT=20 extraction

Arpad , =

=20 I am not doing simulation on IBIS file but in the procedure to generate = IBIS=20 model of VT data i.e Rising and Falling connecting to VSS that means = the=20 plot which you saw was spice3=20 simulation result done on the spice netlist using 2 decks one = for Rising=20 and one for Falling. As I don=92t have permissions to send this decks = and inputs=20 for generation of IBIS I could not send = across.

Hope = this clear=20 your point spice3 does not have = feature to=20 simulate IBIS model.

Best=20 Regards

Kiran=20 Kumar

From:=20 owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Muranyi, = Arpad
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 = 10:00=20 PM
To: = ibis-users@eda.org;=20 ibis@eda.org
Subject: = RE:=20 [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction

Kiran,

I am not sure = whether you=20 answered my question

correctly. I = was=20 wondering what simulator did

you use to = simulate the IBIS=20 model, not what

simulator you used = to=20 generate the Vt data

for the IBIS=20 model.

Does spice3 have = an IBIS=20 buffer element?

Arpad

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<= /SPAN>

From:=20 seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com [mailto:seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, = February 02,=20 2006 8:21 PM
To: = Muranyi,=20 Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] issue = in VT=20 extraction

Arpad,

=20 This data for plot is generated using spice3 =

Best=20 Regards

Kiran=20 Kumar

From:=20 owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Muranyi, = Arpad
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 = 10:06=20 PM
To: = ibis-users@eda.org;=20 ibis@eda.org
Subject: = RE:=20 [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction

Kiran,

Which simulator = did you use=20 when

you made this=20 waveform?

Arpad

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From:=20 owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of=20 seshadri.kirankumar@wipro.com
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 = 3:19=20 AM
To: = ibis-users@eda.org;=20 ibis@eda.org
Subject: = [IBIS-Users] issue in VT extraction

Hi IBIS Experts,

I have an query in = IBIS=20 modeling about extracting VT data,

I am generating model for one buffer which is = having its=20 output swing from +0.21V to -0.21V, But as you see in the Plot for=20

Rising (if the i/p pulse is Rising ) = then it is=20 giving proper switching=20 (Red coloured)

But in Falling (if the i/p pulse is falling) then for 1 st = pulse it=20 is not going down and reaching to -0.21V even I tried = giving very=20 low frequency i/p signal(Green=20 coloured).

Here my doubt is why IBIS takes = first 1/4 th=20 of Pulseperiod of i/p signal, is there any reason in that?=20

If there is no any constraint on this = as I=20 am seeing the good performance in second pulse onwards I can do a = X-axis=20 shift (Time shift) of the second Falling = Pulse.

I wanted this clarification because I am not = aware of=20 internal architecture which causing this problem in the netlist(input) = which I=20 am using for generation.

Thanks in Advance

Best Regards

Kiran Kumar

The information = contained in=20 this electronic message and any attachments to this message are = intended=20 for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain = proprietary,=20 confidential or privileged information. If you are not the = intended=20 recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this = e-mail.=20 Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of = this=20 message and any attachments.

WARNING: Computer viruses can = be=20 transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and = any=20 attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no = liability=20 for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this=20 = email.

www.wipro.com

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62C0C.5245E4C9-- |------------------------------------------------------------------ |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email majordomo@eda.org |with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or email a written request to ibis-request@eda.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ End of ibis-users V1 #77 ************************