From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org (ibis-users)
To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org
Subject: ibis-users V1 #93
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ibis-users          Friday, January 12 2007          Volume 01 : Number 093




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:43:03 +0530
From: Sudarshan Honnudike <sudarshan.honnudike@nxp.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Common Mode range for Differential cells.

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Hi Experts,

With the  new IBIS specification we can define the differential pins with 
the construct

[Diff Pin]     inv_pin     vdiff      tdelay_typ    tdelay_min tdelay_max
  1                    2              200mv         NA           NA     NA

With this construct we can define the minimum difference voltage 
Vdiff(1-2) between the two differential pins to get 
logic state at the differential output. At the same time another important 
parameter which determines the differential
output is common mode range. If the differnence between the two pins(1-2) 
is at its correct value ( -200 > Vdiff >200 )
but if it is not in the common mode range then output is undefined. 

Is there any way to define the Common Mode Range for differential cells in 
IBIS ?

Best Regards,

Sudarshan HN
NXP Semiconductors/CTO /PLT
C-4, Manyata Tech Park, Nagawara
Bangalore-560 045 , India. 
Ph:+91-80-40267073 
Fax: +91-80-4026 7855
seri:sudarsha@inpsblr
E-mail: sudarshan.honnudike@nxp.com
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi Experts,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">With the &nbsp;new IBIS specification
we can define the differential pins with the construct</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">[Diff Pin] &nbsp; &nbsp; inv_pin &nbsp;
&nbsp; vdiff &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;tdelay_typ &nbsp; &nbsp;tdelay_min &nbsp;
&nbsp; tdelay_max</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; 1 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;2 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;200mv &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; NA &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; NA &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; NA</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">With this construct we can define the
minimum difference voltage Vdiff(1-2) between the two differential pins
to get </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">logic state at the differential output.
At the same time another important parameter which determines the differential</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">output is common mode range. If the
differnence between the two pins(1-2) is at its correct value ( -200 &gt;
Vdiff &gt;200 )</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">but if it is not in the common mode
range then output is undefined. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Is there any way to define the Common
Mode Range for differential cells in IBIS ?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Sudarshan HN<br>
NXP Semiconductors/CTO /PLT<br>
C-4, Manyata Tech Park, Nagawara<br>
Bangalore-560 045 , India. &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
Ph:+91-80-40267073 &nbsp;<br>
Fax: +91-80-4026 7855<br>
seri:sudarsha@inpsblr<br>
E-mail: sudarshan.honnudike@nxp.com</font><br />-- 
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:41:39 +0200
From: "haim as" <haimassor@gmail.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Model Selector question

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Hello,


I'm building a full chip ibis model and looking for an option to define
something:


I have group of signals which share the same "model_name".

That model_name allow the user to select specific model from the [Model
selector] definition.

Is it possible to define that if the user selects specific model for one I/O
in that group, the hole group will get the same model?



Thanks for your time,

Haim.

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<p>Hello, </p>
<p><br>I&#39;m building a full chip ibis model and looking for an option to define something:</p>
<p><br>I have group of signals which share the same &quot;model_name&quot;. </p>
<p>That model_name allow the user to select specific model from the [Model selector] definition. </p>
<p>Is it possible to define that if the user selects specific model for one I/O in that group, the hole group will get the same model?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Thanks for your time,</p>
<p>Haim.<br></p>
<br />-- 
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:59:58 -0800
From: "Tom Dagostino" <tom@teraspeed.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Model Selector question

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That is how it works
=20
=20

Tom Dagostino
Teraspeed(R) Labs
13610 SW Harness Lane
Beaverton, OR 97008
503-430-1065
tom@teraspeed.com
www.teraspeed.com

Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
121 North River Drive
Narragansett, RI 02882
401-284-1827=20

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of haim as
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:42 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Model Selector question



Hello,=20


I'm building a full chip ibis model and looking for an option to define
something:


I have group of signals which share the same "model_name".=20

That model_name allow the user to select specific model from the [Model
selector] definition.=20

Is it possible to define that if the user selects specific model for one I/O
in that group, the hole group will get the same model?

=20

Thanks for your time,

Haim.



- --=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and=20
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<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D906465919-09012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>That=20
is how it works</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Tom Dagostino<BR>Teraspeed(R) Labs<BR>13610 SW Harness=20
Lane<BR>Beaverton, OR=20
97008<BR>503-430-1065<BR>tom@teraspeed.com<BR>www.teraspeed.com<BR><BR>Tera=
speed=20
Consulting Group LLC<BR>121 North River Drive<BR>Narragansett, RI=20
02882<BR>401-284-1827</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FO=
NT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] =
<B>On=20
  Behalf Of </B>haim as<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:42=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> ibis-users@server.eda.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [IBIS-Users=
]=20
  IBIS Model Selector question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <P>Hello, </P>
  <P><BR>I'm building a full chip ibis model and looking for an option to d=
efine=20
  something:</P>
  <P><BR>I have group of signals which share the same "model_name". </P>
  <P>That model_name allow the user to select specific model from the [Mode=
l=20
  selector] definition. </P>
  <P>Is it possible to define that if the user selects specific model for o=
ne=20
  I/O in that group, the hole group will get the same model?</P>
  <P>&nbsp;</P>
  <P>Thanks for your time,</P>
  <P>Haim.<BR></P><BR>-- <BR>This message has been scanned for viruses and=
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:04:37 +0530
From: Sudarshan Honnudike <sudarshan.honnudike@nxp.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Information on Vref, Rref & Cref

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Hi ,

If we have a IO pad which works in the different applications depending on 
the load applied
on it, then do we to  provide V-t waveforms(more than normal 4 curves) for 
different applications
with different load settings.?

Or can we specify that loading conditions under Rref, Vref and Cref for 
that model. Which one is preferable. ?

I tested my model with Hyperlynx SI tool and it is not identifying the 
Rref and Vref values that I am specifying
in my model. It will only take Cref and Vmeas while doing simulations. In 
that case we can't specify the loading
conditions under Vref, Cref and Vref but we need to give all possible V-t 
curve combinations for different loading conditions.

Please let me know your reply.

PS : I am also waiting for the reply to my previous mail regarding Common 
Mode Voltage Range support in IBIS .

Best Regards,

Sudarshan HN
NXP Semiconductors/CTO /PLT
C-4, Manyata Tech Park, Nagawara
Bangalore-560 045 , India. 
Ph:+91-80-40267073 
Fax: +91-80-4026 7855
seri:sudarsha@inpsblr
E-mail: sudarshan.honnudike@nxp.com
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi ,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">If we have a IO pad which works in the
different applications depending on the load applied</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">on it, then do we to &nbsp;provide V-t
waveforms(more than normal 4 curves) for different applications</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">with different load settings.?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Or can we specify that loading conditions
under Rref, Vref and Cref for that model. Which one is preferable. ?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I tested my model with Hyperlynx SI
tool and it is not identifying the Rref and Vref values that I am specifying</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">in my model. It will only take Cref
and Vmeas while doing simulations. In that case we can't specify the loading</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">conditions under Vref, Cref and Vref
but we need to give all possible V-t curve combinations for different loading
conditions.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Please let me know your reply.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">PS : I am also waiting for the reply
to my previous mail regarding Common Mode Voltage Range support in IBIS
.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Sudarshan HN<br>
NXP Semiconductors/CTO /PLT<br>
C-4, Manyata Tech Park, Nagawara<br>
Bangalore-560 045 , India. &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
Ph:+91-80-40267073 &nbsp;<br>
Fax: +91-80-4026 7855<br>
seri:sudarsha@inpsblr<br>
E-mail: sudarshan.honnudike@nxp.com</font><br />-- 
<br />This message has been scanned for viruses and
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:47:10 +0100
From: "Alex Hilbers" <alex.hilbers@asml.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Information on Vref, Rref & Cref

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Sudarshan,
=20
Interesting question. I always wondered how a table based model (V-I,
..), such as an IBIS model, could model any form of feedback control
system, as the IO pad you describe probably is. It seems that V-t
waveforms, together with a simulation tool specific algorithm, must do
that job. You verify this by comparing your simulation tool with actual
SPICE results. This is prone to variation based on which tool you use, I
donot think this 'algorithm' is standardised. To my knowledge XTK needs
the curves rising/falling, for load to VCC and GND (i.e. all 4),
otherwise the V-t tables are ignored. (Some vendors do provide only 1 or
2, which is useless). Interesting is what happens if you define several
load conditions (Rfixture =3D 25, 50, 75 Ohms), not to mention capacitive
and inductive loading. What will the simualtion tool choose, will it
interpolate, I donot have the faintest idea. I guess it won't work
within IBIS, which may be the reason you do not get answers.=20
=20
Maybe a good reason to provide SPICE models for this type of buffer.
Either under NDA or encrypted. Level 50 HSPICE, i.e. Philips MOS Model
9, should be fine.=20
=20
Best regards,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alex Hilbers=20
Signal Integrity Analysis and Thermal Management, ASML, EDEV department

Building 7J0005, P.O. Box 324, 5500 AH Veldhoven, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-(0)40-268 5587, Fax: +31-(0)40-268 5530
Email: alex.hilbers@asml.com, www.asml.com <http://www.asml.com/>=20


=20

________________________________

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On
Behalf Of Sudarshan Honnudike
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:35 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Information on Vref, Rref & Cref



Hi ,=20

If we have a IO pad which works in the different applications depending
on the load applied=20
on it, then do we to  provide V-t waveforms(more than normal 4 curves)
for different applications=20
with different load settings.?=20

Or can we specify that loading conditions under Rref, Vref and Cref for
that model. Which one is preferable. ?=20

I tested my model with Hyperlynx SI tool and it is not identifying the
Rref and Vref values that I am specifying=20
in my model. It will only take Cref and Vmeas while doing simulations.
In that case we can't specify the loading=20
conditions under Vref, Cref and Vref but we need to give all possible
V-t curve combinations for different loading conditions.=20

Please let me know your reply.=20

PS : I am also waiting for the reply to my previous mail regarding
Common Mode Voltage Range support in IBIS .=20

Best Regards,

Sudarshan HN
NXP Semiconductors/CTO /PLT
C-4, Manyata Tech Park, Nagawara
Bangalore-560 045 , India.=20=20=20=20
Ph:+91-80-40267073=20=20
Fax: +91-80-4026 7855
seri:sudarsha@inpsblr
E-mail: sudarshan.honnudike@nxp.com
- --=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and=20
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believed to be clean.=20


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<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SP=
AN=20
class=3D937232109-10012007>Sudarshan,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SP=
AN=20
class=3D937232109-10012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SP=
AN=20
class=3D937232109-10012007>Interesting question. I always wondered how=20
a&nbsp;table based model (V-I, ..), such as an IBIS model, could model any =
form=20
of feedback control system, as the IO pad you describe probably is.=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D937232109-10012007>It seems that V-t waveforms, together with a sim=
ulation=20
tool specific algorithm, must do that job. You verify this by comparing you=
r=20
simulation tool with actual SPICE results. This is prone to variation based=
 on=20
which tool you use, I donot think this 'algorithm'&nbsp;is standardised. To=
 my=20
knowledge XTK needs the curves rising/falling, for load to VCC and GND (i.e=
. all=20
4), otherwise the V-t tables are ignored. (Some vendors do provide only 1 o=
r 2,=20
which is useless). Interesting is what happens if you define several load=
=20
conditions (Rfixture =3D 25, 50, 75 Ohms), not to mention capacitive and in=
ductive=20
loading. What will the simualtion tool choose, will it interpolate, I donot=
 have=20
the faintest idea. I guess it won't work within IBIS, which may be the reas=
on=20
you do not get answers. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SP=
AN=20
class=3D937232109-10012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SP=
AN=20
class=3D937232109-10012007>Maybe a good reason to provide SPICE models for =
this=20
type of buffer. Either under NDA or encrypted. Level 50 HSPICE, i.e. Philip=
s MOS=20
Model 9, should be fine. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SP=
AN=20
class=3D937232109-10012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SP=
AN=20
class=3D937232109-10012007>Best regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P=20
align=3Dleft>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=
~~~~~~~~~<BR>Alex=20
Hilbers <BR>Signal Integrity Analysis and Thermal Management, ASML, EDEV=20
department</P>
<P align=3Dleft>Building 7J0005, P.O. Box 324, 5500 AH Veldhoven, The=20
Netherlands<BR>Phone: +31-(0)40-268 5587, Fax: +31-(0)40-268 5530<BR>Email:=
 <A=20
href=3D"mailto:alex.hilbers@asml.com">alex.hilbers@asml.com</A>, <A=20
href=3D"http://www.asml.com/">www.asml.com</A><BR></P></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Sudarshan=20
Honnudike<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:35 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=
=20
ibis-users@eda.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [IBIS-Users] Information on Vref, Rre=
f=20
&amp; Cref<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Hi ,</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT=
=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>If we have a IO pad which works in the different=
=20
applications depending on the load applied</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-ser=
if=20
size=3D2>on it, then do we to &nbsp;provide V-t waveforms(more than normal =
4=20
curves) for different applications</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D2>with=20
different load settings.?</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>O=
r can we=20
specify that loading conditions under Rref, Vref and Cref for that model. W=
hich=20
one is preferable. ?</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>I test=
ed my=20
model with Hyperlynx SI tool and it is not identifying the Rref and Vref va=
lues=20
that I am specifying</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>in my mode=
l. It=20
will only take Cref and Vmeas while doing simulations. In that case we can'=
t=20
specify the loading</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>conditions =
under=20
Vref, Cref and Vref but we need to give all possible V-t curve combinations=
 for=20
different loading conditions.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D2>Please=20
let me know your reply.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>PS =
: I am=20
also waiting for the reply to my previous mail regarding Common Mode Voltag=
e=20
Range support in IBIS .</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Bes=
t=20
Regards,<BR><BR>Sudarshan HN<BR>NXP Semiconductors/CTO /PLT<BR>C-4, Manyata=
 Tech=20
Park, Nagawara<BR>Bangalore-560 045 , India. &nbsp; &nbsp;<BR>Ph:+91-80-402=
67073=20
&nbsp;<BR>Fax: +91-80-4026 7855<BR>seri:sudarsha@inpsblr<BR>E-mail:=20
sudarshan.honnudike@nxp.com</FONT><BR>-- <BR>This message has been scanned =
for=20
viruses and <BR>dangerous content by <A=20
href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/"></B><B>MailScanner</A>, and is <BR>be=
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to be clean. <br clear=3Dall> -- =0D
The information contained in this communication and any attachments is conf=
idential=0D
and may be privileged, and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)=
. Any=0D
unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you =
are not=0D
the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to=
 this=0D
message and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. ASML is=
 neither=0D
liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information containe=
d in this=0D
communication, nor for any delay in its receipt.=0D

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:03:27 -0800
From: "Lynne D. Green" <lgreen22@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Information on Vref, Rref & Cref

I was somewhat confused about the loading question and reply.
 
Rref and Cref are for timing checks, not for simulation.  The loading for
V-t tables is R_fixture.  So both are needed in a model.

One should not use reactive loading in a V-t table.  This has been observed
to "break" the algorithm as implemented by some SI tools.

The underlying algorithms have been published in two papers:
* The Development of Analog SPICE Behavioral Model Based on IBIS Model
Ying Wang & Han Ngee Tan  
 * Extraction of Transient Behavioral Model of Digital I/O Buffers from IBIS
P. Tehrani, Y. Chen & J. Fang

- - Lynne 


"IBIS training when you need it, where you need it."

Dr. Lynne Green
Green Streak Programs
http://www.greenstreakprograms.com
425-788-0412
lgreen22@mindspring.com


________________________________

	From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On
Behalf Of Alex Hilbers
	Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:47 AM
	To: Sudarshan Honnudike; ibis-users@eda.org
	Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Information on Vref, Rref & Cref
	
	
	Sudarshan,
	 
	Interesting question. I always wondered how a table based model
(V-I, ..), such as an IBIS model, could model any form of feedback control
system, as the IO pad you describe probably is. It seems that V-t waveforms,
together with a simulation tool specific algorithm, must do that job. You
verify this by comparing your simulation tool with actual SPICE results.
This is prone to variation based on which tool you use, I donot think this
'algorithm' is standardised. To my knowledge XTK needs the curves
rising/falling, for load to VCC and GND (i.e. all 4), otherwise the V-t
tables are ignored. (Some vendors do provide only 1 or 2, which is useless).
Interesting is what happens if you define several load conditions (Rfixture
= 25, 50, 75 Ohms), not to mention capacitive and inductive loading. What
will the simualtion tool choose, will it interpolate, I donot have the
faintest idea. I guess it won't work within IBIS, which may be the reason
you do not get answers. 
	 
	Maybe a good reason to provide SPICE models for this type of buffer.
Either under NDA or encrypted. Level 50 HSPICE, i.e. Philips MOS Model 9,
should be fine. 
	 
	Best regards,
	
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
	Alex Hilbers 
	Signal Integrity Analysis and Thermal Management, ASML, EDEV
department

	Building 7J0005, P.O. Box 324, 5500 AH Veldhoven, The Netherlands
	Phone: +31-(0)40-268 5587, Fax: +31-(0)40-268 5530
	Email: alex.hilbers@asml.com, www.asml.com <http://www.asml.com/> 
	

		 

________________________________

	From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On
Behalf Of Sudarshan Honnudike
	Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:35 AM
	To: ibis-users@eda.org
	Subject: [IBIS-Users] Information on Vref, Rref & Cref
	
	

	Hi , 
	
	If we have a IO pad which works in the different applications
depending on the load applied 
	on it, then do we to  provide V-t waveforms(more than normal 4
curves) for different applications 
	with different load settings.? 
	
	Or can we specify that loading conditions under Rref, Vref and Cref
for that model. Which one is preferable. ? 
	
	I tested my model with Hyperlynx SI tool and it is not identifying
the Rref and Vref values that I am specifying 
	in my model. It will only take Cref and Vmeas while doing
simulations. In that case we can't specify the loading 
	conditions under Vref, Cref and Vref but we need to give all
possible V-t curve combinations for different loading conditions. 
	
	Please let me know your reply. 
	
	PS : I am also waiting for the reply to my previous mail regarding
Common Mode Voltage Range support in IBIS . 
	
	Best Regards,
	
	Sudarshan HN
	NXP Semiconductors/CTO /PLT
	C-4, Manyata Tech Park, Nagawara
	Bangalore-560 045 , India.    
	Ph:+91-80-40267073  
	Fax: +91-80-4026 7855
	seri:sudarsha@inpsblr
	E-mail: sudarshan.honnudike@nxp.com
	-- 
	This message has been scanned for viruses and 
	dangerous content by MailScanner <http://www.mailscanner.info/> ,
and is 
	believed to be clean. 
	-- The information contained in this communication and any
attachments is confidential and may be privileged, and is for the sole use
of the intended recipient(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and destroy all
copies of this message and any attachments. ASML is neither liable for the
proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this
communication, nor for any delay in its receipt. 
	-- 
	This message has been scanned for viruses and 
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:08:19 +0100
From: Roberto IZZI <roberto.izzi@st.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- --------------040003030903090003060701
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello everybody

I 'd like to have some information about a strange behaviour of Open
drain buffer Ibis model.
I have noticed a mismatch between Transistor level and Ibis model
voltage output during a transient analysis, considering the same buffer.
In fact in presence of the same input voltage wave and for a high value 
of load resistance(for example 20Kohm)connected to power,
we can observe a delay between TL output and Ibis output. 
In the Ibis file, for Open drain, Rise and fall waves tables have been extracted 
considering the same resistance connected to Power (20Kohm).
What is the cause of this strange behaviour?

  Thanks and best regards

        Roberto Izzi
    


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- --------------040003030903090003060701--

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:14:53 -0600
From: <Aubrey_Sparkman@dell.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Is your only concern the time delay? IBIS and Spice aren't always
aligned in time since IBIS doesn't contain the buffer delay.


Aubrey Sparkman 
Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team
Dell, Inc. 
Aubrey_Sparkman@Dell.com 
(512) 723-3592

The Greatest Pleasure in Life is Doing what People say can't be done...

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Roberto IZZI
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:08 AM
To: ibis@server.eda-stds.org; ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Hello everybody

I 'd like to have some information about a strange behaviour of Open
drain buffer Ibis model.
I have noticed a mismatch between Transistor level and Ibis model
voltage output during a transient analysis, considering the same buffer.
In fact in presence of the same input voltage wave and for a high value
of load resistance(for example 20Kohm)connected to power, we can observe
a delay between TL output and Ibis output. 
In the Ibis file, for Open drain, Rise and fall waves tables have been
extracted considering the same resistance connected to Power (20Kohm).
What is the cause of this strange behaviour?

  Thanks and best regards

        Roberto Izzi
    


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:31:08 +0800
From: "NG,MEI-YEE" <mei-yee.ng@avagotech.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Hi everybody, 

I would like to say that I experienced the same phenomenon as Roberto,
with the IBIS waveform delayed compared to the transistor level
simulation. Aubrey, what do you mean by IBIS model doesn't contain
buffer delay? How does that explain IBIS model being delayed in the
output response?

Appreciate any feedback. Thank you.

Best regards,
Mei Yee

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of
Aubrey_Sparkman@dell.com
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:15 AM
To: roberto.izzi@st.com; ibis@server.eda-stds.org;
ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Is your only concern the time delay? IBIS and Spice aren't always
aligned in time since IBIS doesn't contain the buffer delay.


Aubrey Sparkman 
Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team
Dell, Inc. 
Aubrey_Sparkman@Dell.com 
(512) 723-3592

The Greatest Pleasure in Life is Doing what People say can't be done...

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Roberto IZZI
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:08 AM
To: ibis@server.eda-stds.org; ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Hello everybody

I 'd like to have some information about a strange behaviour of Open
drain buffer Ibis model.
I have noticed a mismatch between Transistor level and Ibis model
voltage output during a transient analysis, considering the same buffer.
In fact in presence of the same input voltage wave and for a high value
of load resistance(for example 20Kohm)connected to power, we can observe
a delay between TL output and Ibis output. 
In the Ibis file, for Open drain, Rise and fall waves tables have been
extracted considering the same resistance connected to Power (20Kohm).
What is the cause of this strange behaviour?

  Thanks and best regards

        Roberto Izzi
    


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MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.

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|
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|
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|  http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
|  http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/         E-mail since 1993

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|  http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
|  http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/         E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:49:55 +0200
From: "Dimitry Eisenshtat" <Dimitry.Eisenshtat@winbond.com>
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Hi all,
Mei Yee, if you see the buffer to be modeled as box with some interface 
(lets speak for example about one directional buffer which has only 
transmitter, so the interface in simplest case will be data_from_core, 
enable, pad) - you of course expected from IBIS representation the same 
(in ideal case) behavioral as the transistor-level simulation with 
spice, in other words, no delay is expected between both transient 
responses. But it is the artificial situation, in real life you are 
looking from board level and you can not synchronize your simulation 
with signal inside the core aren't you? How you can define for example 
WHEN the input signal starts the transition - it dependent on unknown 
digital stage number the signal is walking on before the buffer 
data_from_core input, isn't it ? As i understand, the delay from enable 
to pad is meaningless, because actually you can not define absolute time 
in board-level scope, only the transition itself is important. Another 
question is - why the delay comes to be, but for example the answer may 
be the time windowing of V/T tables (I mean the model maker probably 
shifts the transients response table in order to make the time window 
smaller, for example).

I have to say, I'm circuit designer and I has produced a lot of IBIS 
models, but has actually no knowledge about using of these models on 
board level, so I really like to know if I have a mistake. Aubrey, did 
you mean the same things?

Regards,
    Dmitry

NG,MEI-YEE wrote:
> Hi everybody, 
> 
> I would like to say that I experienced the same phenomenon as Roberto,
> with the IBIS waveform delayed compared to the transistor level
> simulation. Aubrey, what do you mean by IBIS model doesn't contain
> buffer delay? How does that explain IBIS model being delayed in the
> output response?
> 
> Appreciate any feedback. Thank you.
> 
> Best regards,
> Mei Yee
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
> [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of
> Aubrey_Sparkman@dell.com
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:15 AM
> To: roberto.izzi@st.com; ibis@server.eda-stds.org;
> ibis-users@server.eda.org
> Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour
> 
> Is your only concern the time delay? IBIS and Spice aren't always
> aligned in time since IBIS doesn't contain the buffer delay.
> 
> 
> Aubrey Sparkman 
> Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team
> Dell, Inc. 
> Aubrey_Sparkman@Dell.com 
> (512) 723-3592
> 
> The Greatest Pleasure in Life is Doing what People say can't be done...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
> [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Roberto IZZI
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:08 AM
> To: ibis@server.eda-stds.org; ibis-users@server.eda.org
> Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour
> 
> Hello everybody
> 
> I 'd like to have some information about a strange behaviour of Open
> drain buffer Ibis model.
> I have noticed a mismatch between Transistor level and Ibis model
> voltage output during a transient analysis, considering the same buffer.
> In fact in presence of the same input voltage wave and for a high value
> of load resistance(for example 20Kohm)connected to power, we can observe
> a delay between TL output and Ibis output. 
> In the Ibis file, for Open drain, Rise and fall waves tables have been
> extracted considering the same resistance connected to Power (20Kohm).
> What is the cause of this strange behaviour?
> 
>   Thanks and best regards
> 
>         Roberto Izzi
>     
> 
> 
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
> 


===========================================================================================
The privileged confidential information contained in this email is intended for use only by the addressees as indicated by the original sender of this email. If you are not the addressee indicated in this email or are not responsible for delivery of the email to such  a person, please kindly reply to the sender indicating this fact and delete all copies of it from your computer and network server immediately. Your cooperation is highly appreciated. It is advised that any unauthorized use of confidential information of Winbond is strictly prohibited; and any information in this email irrelevant to the official business of Winbond shall be deemed as neither given nor endorsed by Winbond.

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|with the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
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|  http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
|  http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/         E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:15:25 +0100
From: Roberto IZZI <roberto.izzi@st.com>
Subject: Re: [IBIS] Re: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Hello everybody

  Thank you very much for your feedback.

  In my open drain ibis model, I have extracted Rise and fall wave by TX 
level  simulation of buffer (spice) connecting a
  load resistance value equal to 20K between open drain pad and power. 
In this case I have considered the real
  delay between transient of input signal and output. Now if I consider 
the same input signal (by which I have
  extracted Rise and Fall tables) for ibis model and the same resistance 
value (20k), I should have the same
  behaviour between Ibis and spice buffer.

  Thanks and best regards.

   Roberto Izzi

Dimitry Eisenshtat wrote:

> Hi all,
> Mei Yee, if you see the buffer to be modeled as box with some 
> interface (lets speak for example about one directional buffer which 
> has only transmitter, so the interface in simplest case will be 
> data_from_core, enable, pad) - you of course expected from IBIS 
> representation the same (in ideal case) behavioral as the 
> transistor-level simulation with spice, in other words, no delay is 
> expected between both transient responses. But it is the artificial 
> situation, in real life you are looking from board level and you can 
> not synchronize your simulation with signal inside the core aren't 
> you? How you can define for example WHEN the input signal starts the 
> transition - it dependent on unknown digital stage number the signal 
> is walking on before the buffer data_from_core input, isn't it ? As i 
> understand, the delay from enable to pad is meaningless, because 
> actually you can not define absolute time in board-level scope, only 
> the transition itself is important. Another question is - why the 
> delay comes to be, but for example the answer may be the time 
> windowing of V/T tables (I mean the model maker probably shifts the 
> transients response table in order to make the time window smaller, 
> for example).
>
> I have to say, I'm circuit designer and I has produced a lot of IBIS 
> models, but has actually no knowledge about using of these models on 
> board level, so I really like to know if I have a mistake. Aubrey, did 
> you mean the same things?
>
> Regards,
>    Dmitry
>
> NG,MEI-YEE wrote:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>> I would like to say that I experienced the same phenomenon as Roberto,
>> with the IBIS waveform delayed compared to the transistor level
>> simulation. Aubrey, what do you mean by IBIS model doesn't contain
>> buffer delay? How does that explain IBIS model being delayed in the
>> output response?
>>
>> Appreciate any feedback. Thank you.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mei Yee
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
>> [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of
>> Aubrey_Sparkman@dell.com
>> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:15 AM
>> To: roberto.izzi@st.com; ibis@server.eda-stds.org;
>> ibis-users@server.eda.org
>> Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour
>>
>> Is your only concern the time delay? IBIS and Spice aren't always
>> aligned in time since IBIS doesn't contain the buffer delay.
>>
>>
>> Aubrey Sparkman Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team
>> Dell, Inc. Aubrey_Sparkman@Dell.com (512) 723-3592
>>
>> The Greatest Pleasure in Life is Doing what People say can't be done...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org
>> [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Roberto IZZI
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:08 AM
>> To: ibis@server.eda-stds.org; ibis-users@server.eda.org
>> Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour
>>
>> Hello everybody
>>
>> I 'd like to have some information about a strange behaviour of Open
>> drain buffer Ibis model.
>> I have noticed a mismatch between Transistor level and Ibis model
>> voltage output during a transient analysis, considering the same buffer.
>> In fact in presence of the same input voltage wave and for a high value
>> of load resistance(for example 20Kohm)connected to power, we can observe
>> a delay between TL output and Ibis output. In the Ibis file, for Open 
>> drain, Rise and fall waves tables have been
>> extracted considering the same resistance connected to Power (20Kohm).
>> What is the cause of this strange behaviour?
>>
>>   Thanks and best regards
>>
>>         Roberto Izzi
>>    
>>
>> -- 
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
>> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>>
>
>
> =========================================================================================== 
>
> The privileged confidential information contained in this email is 
> intended for use only by the addressees as indicated by the original 
> sender of this email. If you are not the addressee indicated in this 
> email or are not responsible for delivery of the email to such  a 
> person, please kindly reply to the sender indicating this fact and 
> delete all copies of it from your computer and network server 
> immediately. Your cooperation is highly appreciated. It is advised 
> that any unauthorized use of confidential information of Winbond is 
> strictly prohibited; and any information in this email irrelevant to 
> the official business of Winbond shall be deemed as neither given nor 
> endorsed by Winbond.
>


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|  http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent
|  http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/         E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:38:29 +0100
From: <Radovan.Vuletic@qimonda.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: [IBIS] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C73625.09EE6EF2
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Roberto,

I am pretty sure that your problem is same that I have discussed on this
forum in August 2006 (at least the picture that you attached in your
mail looks very similar to the pictures that I attached in my question
mail).

So, for more information please read the attached mails.

Just shortly:
trick is in the applied stimuli to IBIS model - your stimuli is too slow
- - please find bellow the excerpt out of HSpice SI  Guide:

"Voltage Thresholds
Voltages applied to the input and enable nodes are digital signals. They
should be either 0 or 1. You can specify input voltage as:
V_in nd_in 0 pulse (0 3.3 0 0.5n 0.5n 4n 8n) However, IC circuit
simulation currently detects only two thresholds, 20% and 80% of [0,1]
swing, that is, 0.2V and 0.8V. If a buffer is non-inverting and in a LOW
state, it starts the transition to a HIGH state, if V_in > 0.8V. If the
buffer is in HIGH state, it will start the transition to LOW state, if
V_in < 0.2V.
Specifying
input voltage in the range [0, 3.3V] as in the above example does not
make LOW -> HIGH transitions better in any way, but can add uncertainty
over the 0.5ns time interval, when the transition actually occurs."

- --- end of excerpt

So, if you apply very fast stimuli (in ideal case step function) your
B-element and HSpice netlist model responses should be the same (or at
least edge aligned) - of course, I agree with you, step function doesn't
make much physical sense, but that is it, it is one more limitation of
IBIS modeling.

Regards,
Radovan

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On
Behalf Of Roberto IZZI
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:08 PM
To: ibis@server.eda-stds.org; ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Hello everybody

I 'd like to have some information about a strange behaviour of Open
drain buffer Ibis model.
I have noticed a mismatch between Transistor level and Ibis model
voltage output during a transient analysis, considering the same buffer.
In fact in presence of the same input voltage wave and for a high value
of load resistance(for example 20Kohm)connected to power, we can observe
a delay between TL output and Ibis output.=20
In the Ibis file, for Open drain, Rise and fall waves tables have been
extracted considering the same resistance connected to Power (20Kohm).
What is the cause of this strange behaviour?

  Thanks and best regards

        Roberto Izzi
=20=20=20=20


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MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.


- --=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean.


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Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Differences between Hspice netlist simulation and Hspice B-element simulation - bug or feature?
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:12:38 +0100
Message-ID: <DD7DA0AF20A23F49BC1077FC296F0ECF0195B78A@mucse306.eu.infineon.com>
In-Reply-To: <115496700767215259@mail.sigrity.com>
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Thread-Topic: [IBIS-Users] Differences between Hspice netlist simulation and Hspice B-element simulation - bug or feature?
Thread-Index: Aca3Er4XeA3MXBO9SJCOnWNLrk2bHAAEzttAABD8UQAAp+Vx8AAL98iQAAC1LAA=
From: <Radovan.Vuletic@qimonda.com>
Sender: <owner-ibis-users@server.eda-stds.org>
To: <samchitwood@sigrity.com>,
	<ibis-users@server.eda-stds.org>

Hi Sam,

many thanks, message understood :-))

Regards,
Radovan=20

- -----Original Message-----
From: Sam Chitwood [mailto:samchitwood@sigrity.com]=20
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:10 PM
To: Vuletic Radovan (QAG PD PDE MEM); ibis-users@server.eda-stds.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Differences between Hspice netlist simulation and=
 Hspice B-element simulation - bug or feature?

Hi Radovan,

A 0ps rise time is ok for IBIS because the stimulus signal is simply a trig=
ger for the algorithms to start the transitions; there is nothing physical =
associated with the stimulus node.  However, this is typically not true for=
 transistor-level models so different stimuli are required.

A number of EDA tools (but probably not all) use the 0.2 V and 0.8 V trigge=
r points (mainly so that HSPICE decks can be directly used in other tools).
This was established a long time ago.  The IBIS forum does not commonly dis=
cuss 'how' EDA companies should implement capabilities - read the IBIS spec=
. on Series MOSFET for an example.  :-)

A percentage of the voltage rail could have been used for the trigger point=
s, but that might require unique stimuli for each rail (and each typ/min/ma=
x).  The fixed 0.2 and 0.8 scheme allows users to create a database of trig=
ger sub-circuits that can be used with any supply voltage.
Now that you know how it works, I think you'll find it useful.

I hope I've answered some of your questions.
Thanks,

Sam


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda-stds.org
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda-stds.org] On Behalf Of Radovan.Vuletic@=
qimonda.com
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 8:30 AM
To: Xuefeng.Chen@synopsys.com; weston.beal@intel.com; ibis-users@server.eda=
- -stds.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Differences between Hspice netlist simulation and=
 Hspice B-element simulation - bug or feature?

Hi experts,

many thanks Weston and Xuefeng for your answers. I have to apologies that i=
t wasn't immediately clear in my first mail, but I would never send mail to=
 this forum if just delaying of stimuli for 30ps would solve my problems.=
=20
Problem was, as I wrote in my mail, that in some cases rising edge was show=
ing very good overlap between transistor netlist and IBIS, but falling edge=
s were shifted - in other cases (with some other stimuli frequencies) falli=
ng edges were overlapping but rising edges were delayed - this problem unfo=
rtunately can't be solved by simple shifting stimuli. Hint that Xuefeng gav=
e was really good (but who really reads such boring stuff as Additional Not=
es in HSpice SI Guide?). So just to recapitulate for the other people who c=
an see/have the same problem - please find bellow the excerpt out of HSpice=
 SI  Guide:

"Voltage Thresholds
Voltages applied to the input and enable nodes are digital signals. They sh=
ould be either 0 or 1. You can specify input voltage as:
V_in nd_in 0 pulse (0 3.3 0 0.5n 0.5n 4n 8n) However, IC circuit simulation=
 currently detects only two thresholds, 20% and 80% of [0,1] swing, that is=
, 0.2V and 0.8V. If a buffer is non-inverting and in a LOW state, it starts=
 the transition to a HIGH state, if V_in > 0.8V. If the buffer is in HIGH s=
tate, it will start the transition to LOW state, if V_in < 0.2V.
Specifying
input voltage in the range [0, 3.3V] as in the above example does not make =
LOW -> HIGH transitions better in any way, but can add uncertainty over the=
 0.5ns time interval, when the transition actually occurs."

- --- end of excerpt

Originaly I used PULSE with 100ps rising/falling time with sweep from 0 to =
1.5V. (and 0.2V and 0.8V are pretty asymmetrical to this range) When I used=
 PULSE stimuli with 0ps rising and falling waveform and around 10 times fin=
er resolution for simulation (.TRAN  1.36e-11 used for IBIS model extractio=
n and .TRAN 1ps for simulation (although Xuefeng will say that it is perhap=
s not properly to say, since there is dynamic step control) I saw significa=
ntly better data-eye diagram and very good overlap between rising and falli=
ng edges - Nice! However, that rises a question if 0ps rising/falling wavef=
orms are physically justified.

Q U E S T I O N :
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Above mentioned problem is kind of missing definition in IBIS models (O.K.
not in definition of IBIS, but definitely for usage of IBIS models).
Shouldn't be standardized how every tool should approach simulation of IBIS=
 models with respect to input and enable nodes? I mean 0.2V for low and 0.8=
V for high is very strange - I could accept 20% of Vdd and 80% of Vdd, but =
to define input thresholds as absolute values, totally independent on techn=
ology and supply voltage is somehow user unfriendly (however, in HSpice it =
is at least mentioned in some additional note). Furthermore, it seems that =
every tool vendor has freedom to treat/process stimuli to input and enable =
node as she/he will. That leads to the fact that I can have several differe=
nt output waveforms although I am using same model and stimuli - but differ=
ent tool!?!

I am pretty sure that this topic was already discussed among the people tha=
t are using IBIS, but what was the outcome?
Is there somebody who is still driving this topics? Is there intention to s=
tandardize behavior of inputs to IBIS models?

Regards,
Radovan

- -----Original Message-----
From: Xuefeng Chen [mailto:Xuefeng.Chen@synopsys.com]
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 4:26 AM
To: Beal, Weston; Vuletic Radovan (QAG PD PDE MEM); ibis-users@eda-stds.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Differences between Hspice netlist simulation and=
 Hspice B-element simulation - bug or feature?

Radovan,
   Weston's suggestions are very good.
   In addition, I have two points to mention when using HSPICE=20

1) ".TRAN 1.36e-11 1.36e-09" does not mean exactly the time step is 13.6ps.
Dynamic time step control will be used in transient analysis. You can try o=
ption DELMAX to set the maximum time step.

2) Input stimulus is dealt with by two voltage thresholds 0.2v and 0.8v whi=
ch decides the starting time point of buffer's transition. So it's better t=
o set (vhigh+vlow)/2 =3D 0.5 if you use PULSE voltage source as stimulus.

Of course, I think the most important thing is the waveform tables as Westo=
n mentioned.=20

Best regards
Xuefeng







- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@eda-stds.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda-stds.org]
On Behalf Of Beal, Weston
Sent: 2006?8?4? 2:04
To: Radovan.Vuletic@qimonda.com; ibis-users@eda-stds.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Differences between Hspice netlist simulation and=
 Hspice B-element simulation - bug or feature?

Radovan,

First, you should not expect the curves to line up in time. The IBIS data d=
oes not represent all of the output buffer. Generally, the voltage at the p=
in of an IBIS model will transition sooner than the voltage at the pin of a=
 full transistor-level model. The curves should be the same if you can slid=
e one in time to compensate for this time offset. Try delaying the stimulus=
 to the IBIS model by 30ps.

In your pictures I see that the curve shapes are still a little bit off.
It's difficult to know what causes this without seeing your simulation file=
s. Look at the IBIS rising and falling waveform tables to see if the time e=
xtents are close to the actual transition. You want as many time-points as =
possible describing the actual transition and not waste them in flat region=
s. Different simulators deal with the flat regions at the beginning and end=
 of the transition in different ways.

I hope this helps a bit. Good Luck!

Regards,
Weston


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda-stds.org
[mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda-stds.org] On Behalf Of Radovan.Vuletic@=
qimonda.com
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:38 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda-stds.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Differences between Hspice netlist simulation and Hsp=
ice B-element simulation - bug or feature?

Hi experts,=20

sorry that I trigger the same topic once again, but now it keeps me busy al=
ready more than one week and I am pretty sure that the problem is not a way=
 how I extract IBIS model, but somewhere else!=20

Before I elaborate the problem let me notice that I get the same result if =
I use 2ibis2 or s2ibis3 or if I use HSpice or some company internal analog =
simulator for extraction of IBIS model.=20

Let me elaborate the problem:=20
1. IBIS model is generated (say with s2ibis2, but irrelevant, since there i=
s a same result with s2ibis3) 2. I take one of spice decks for extracting r=
ising waveform generated by extraction tool (say a00DQ40.spi) - this should=
 be spice deck for generating 1st rising waveform in typical case.=20
This spice deck of course contains the netlist of my circuit.=20
3. I modify this spice deck only that  I instantiate in it just generated I=
BIS buffer model (in step 1.) as a B-element - in other words, I just put t=
here IBIS model - B-element and do nothing else 4. stimuli and load for net=
list remains the same and I use exactly the same stimuli and load for IBIS =
model as well (of course, netlist, IBIS model and their stimulus and loads =
are separated) 5. simulate such modified spice deck with HSpice and compare=
 the outputs: netlist vs. IBIS model

Problem:
What I expect to get on output is very good overlap between Hspice simulati=
on of netlist and IBIS model, BUT what I get on output is a fact that falli=
ng or rising edges don't overlap i.e. there is some 30ps delay (Please take=
 a look on attached snapshots "zoom1.gif" and "zoom2.gif").
Signal "dq_40_ohm" is output of netlist, signal "io_ron_040_hspice_typ". Yo=
u can see a real delay and not some different slopes due to different loads.

Transient analysis is done with (.TRAN 1.36e-11 1.36e-09) - i.e. simulation=
 step (for IBIS extraction) is 13.6ps.=20

What worries me even more is a fact that in some cases (for different stimu=
li frequencies) I see that rising edges are overlapping and falling are del=
ayed and in some cases (some other frequency of stimuli) I see that falling=
 edges are overlapping and rising are delayed, so I don't know even where s=
hould I cut  ("taylor") my V-t curves when behavior seems to be so arbitrar=
y and frequency dependant.=20

I know, some of you would say that 20-30ps are no problem, but exactly this=
 20-30ps are shifting (upwards or downwards) crossing point of rising and f=
alling edges and destroy duty cycle and data eye diagram (target is 800MHz)=
. Problem is independent on slope of stimuli (so with 1ps slope or 100ps of=
 slope of stimuli I see the same result)=20

I know that we should not speak on this forum about tools and vendors and I=
 terribly apologize that I will still mention some of them - but on the end=
 all our models are used with some these tools and I think that it is neces=
sary that we exchange information about our experiences with this tools as =
well. So the problem is analysed with different tools:

- - I see above mentioned problem when simulating with HSpice (versions 2004.=
09, 2005.03 and 2006.03) netlist vs. IBIS model
- - I see effect of above mentioned problem when simulating with ADS - using =
only IBIS model  - rising and falling edge crossing points are shifted same=
 as in HSpice
- - with SpecctraQuest (also simulating only with IBIS model) I see the right=
 results!


So I am pretty confused, what is correct? A few different simulators, but o=
nly one is showing a right result (or at least result that I consider as a =
proper).
What is your experience? Have you noticed something similar? Can somebody f=
rom you do the same procedure on one of your designs (compare IBIS vs.
HSpice on the same way as I done)?

Has somebody an idea, proposal?

Best regards / Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen / S po=B9tovanjem Radovan Vuletic

Qimonda AG
QAG PD PDE
MUC/10.2.236 AP 3
Am Campeon 1-12
D-85579 Neuebiberg

Phone:		+49 (0)89 234 20108
Fax (PC):	+49 (0)89 234 955 5305=20

E-mail: radovan.vuletic@qimonda.com
 <<zoom2.gif>>  <<zoom1.gif>>=20

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Subject: [IBIS-Users] Differences between Hspice netlist simulation and Hspice B-element simulation - bug or feature?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 16:37:35 +0100
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Thread-Topic: Differences between Hspice netlist simulation and Hspice B-element simulation - bug or feature?
Thread-Index: Aca3Er4XeA3MXBO9SJCOnWNLrk2bHA==
From: <Radovan.Vuletic@qimonda.com>
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- ------_=_NextPart_002_01C6B713.0DC65080
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	charset="iso-8859-2"
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Hi experts,=20

sorry that I trigger the same topic once again, but now it keeps me busy al=
ready more than one week and I am pretty sure that the problem is not a way=
 how I extract IBIS model, but somewhere else!=20

Before I elaborate the problem let me notice that I get the same result if =
I use 2ibis2 or s2ibis3 or if I use HSpice or some company internal analog =
simulator for extraction of IBIS model.=20

Let me elaborate the problem:=20
1. IBIS model is generated (say with s2ibis2, but irrelevant, since there i=
s a same result with s2ibis3)=20
2. I take one of spice decks for extracting rising waveform generated by ex=
traction tool (say a00DQ40.spi) - this should be spice deck for generating =
1st rising waveform in typical case.=20
This spice deck of course contains the netlist of my circuit.=20
3. I modify this spice deck only that  I instantiate in it just generated I=
BIS buffer model (in step 1.) as a B-element - in other words, I just put t=
here IBIS model - B-element and do nothing else
4. stimuli and load for netlist remains the same and I use exactly the same=
 stimuli and load for IBIS model as well (of course, netlist, IBIS model an=
d their stimulus and loads are separated)
5. simulate such modified spice deck with HSpice and compare the outputs: n=
etlist vs. IBIS model

Problem:
What I expect to get on output is very good overlap between Hspice simulati=
on of netlist and IBIS model, BUT what I get on output is a fact that falli=
ng or rising edges don't overlap i.e. there is some 30ps delay (Please take=
 a look on attached snapshots "zoom1.gif" and "zoom2.gif"). Signal "dq_40_o=
hm" is output of netlist, signal "io_ron_040_hspice_typ". You can see a rea=
l delay and not some different slopes due to different loads.

Transient analysis is done with (.TRAN 1.36e-11 1.36e-09) - i.e. simulation=
 step (for IBIS extraction) is 13.6ps.=20

What worries me even more is a fact that in some cases (for different stimu=
li frequencies) I see that rising edges are overlapping and falling are del=
ayed and in some cases (some other frequency of stimuli) I see that falling=
 edges are overlapping and rising are delayed, so I don't know even where s=
hould I cut  ("taylor") my V-t curves when behavior seems to be so arbitrar=
y and frequency dependant.=20

I know, some of you would say that 20-30ps are no problem, but exactly this=
 20-30ps are shifting (upwards or downwards) crossing point of rising and f=
alling edges and destroy duty cycle and data eye diagram (target is 800MHz)=
. Problem is independent on slope of stimuli (so with 1ps slope or 100ps of=
 slope of stimuli I see the same result)=20

I know that we should not speak on this forum about tools and vendors and I=
 terribly apologize that I will still mention some of them - but on the end=
 all our models are used with some these tools and I think that it is neces=
sary that we exchange information about our experiences with this tools as =
well. So the problem is analysed with different tools:

- - I see above mentioned problem when simulating with HSpice (versions 2004.=
09, 2005.03 and 2006.03) netlist vs. IBIS model
- - I see effect of above mentioned problem when simulating with ADS - using =
only IBIS model  - rising and falling edge crossing points are shifted same=
 as in HSpice
- - with SpecctraQuest (also simulating only with IBIS model) I see the right=
 results!


So I am pretty confused, what is correct? A few different simulators, but o=
nly one is showing a right result (or at least result that I consider as a =
proper).
What is your experience? Have you noticed something similar? Can somebody f=
rom you do the same procedure on one of your designs (compare IBIS vs. HSpi=
ce on the same way as I done)?

Has somebody an idea, proposal?

Best regards / Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen / S po=B9tovanjem
Radovan Vuleti=E6

Qimonda AG
QAG PD PDE
MUC/10.2.236 AP 3
Am Campeon 1-12
D-85579 Neuebiberg

Phone:		+49 (0)89 234 20108
Fax (PC):	+49 (0)89 234 955 5305=20

E-mail: radovan.vuletic@qimonda.com
 <<zoom2.gif>>  <<zoom1.gif>>=20

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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:07:23 -0600
From: <Aubrey_Sparkman@dell.com>
Subject: RE: [IBIS] Re: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Dmitry, I think you said it correctly.

Roberto,
If the additional delay bothers you, you could remove some of the early,
non-changing data points from the IBIS data.  On the other hand, it's
not necessary and it makes people ask questions, think, and learn.....


Aubrey Sparkman 
Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team
Dell, Inc. 
Aubrey_Sparkman@Dell.com 
(512) 723-3592

The Greatest Pleasure in Life is Doing what People say can't be done...

- -----Original Message-----
From: Roberto IZZI [mailto:roberto.izzi@st.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:15 AM
To: Dimitry Eisenshtat
Cc: NG,MEI-YEE; ibis@server.eda-stds.org; ibis-users@server.eda.org;
Sparkman, Aubrey
Subject: Re: [IBIS] Re: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Hello everybody

  Thank you very much for your feedback.

  In my open drain ibis model, I have extracted Rise and fall wave by TX
level  simulation of buffer (spice) connecting a
  load resistance value equal to 20K between open drain pad and power. 
In this case I have considered the real
  delay between transient of input signal and output. Now if I consider
the same input signal (by which I have
  extracted Rise and Fall tables) for ibis model and the same resistance
value (20k), I should have the same
  behaviour between Ibis and spice buffer.

  Thanks and best regards.

   Roberto Izzi

Dimitry Eisenshtat wrote:

> Hi all,
> Mei Yee, if you see the buffer to be modeled as box with some 
> interface (lets speak for example about one directional buffer which 
> has only transmitter, so the interface in simplest case will be 
> data_from_core, enable, pad) - you of course expected from IBIS 
> representation the same (in ideal case) behavioral as the 
> transistor-level simulation with spice, in other words, no delay is 
> expected between both transient responses. But it is the artificial 
> situation, in real life you are looking from board level and you can 
> not synchronize your simulation with signal inside the core aren't 
> you? How you can define for example WHEN the input signal starts the 
> transition - it dependent on unknown digital stage number the signal 
> is walking on before the buffer data_from_core input, isn't it ? As i 
> understand, the delay from enable to pad is meaningless, because 
> actually you can not define absolute time in board-level scope, only 
> the transition itself is important. Another question is - why the 
> delay comes to be, but for example the answer may be the time 
> windowing of V/T tables (I mean the model maker probably shifts the 
> transients response table in order to make the time window smaller, 
> for example).
>
> I have to say, I'm circuit designer and I has produced a lot of IBIS 
> models, but has actually no knowledge about using of these models on 
> board level, so I really like to know if I have a mistake. Aubrey, did

> you mean the same things?
>
> Regards,
>    Dmitry
>
> NG,MEI-YEE wrote:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>> I would like to say that I experienced the same phenomenon as 
>> Roberto, with the IBIS waveform delayed compared to the transistor 
>> level simulation. Aubrey, what do you mean by IBIS model doesn't 
>> contain buffer delay? How does that explain IBIS model being delayed 
>> in the output response?
>>
>> Appreciate any feedback. Thank you.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mei Yee
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org 
>> [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Aubrey_Sparkman@dell.com
>> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:15 AM
>> To: roberto.izzi@st.com; ibis@server.eda-stds.org; 
>> ibis-users@server.eda.org
>> Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour
>>
>> Is your only concern the time delay? IBIS and Spice aren't always 
>> aligned in time since IBIS doesn't contain the buffer delay.
>>
>>
>> Aubrey Sparkman Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team Dell, 
>> Inc. Aubrey_Sparkman@Dell.com (512) 723-3592
>>
>> The Greatest Pleasure in Life is Doing what People say can't be
done...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org 
>> [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Roberto IZZI
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:08 AM
>> To: ibis@server.eda-stds.org; ibis-users@server.eda.org
>> Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ibis open drain strange behaviour
>>
>> Hello everybody
>>
>> I 'd like to have some information about a strange behaviour of Open 
>> drain buffer Ibis model.
>> I have noticed a mismatch between Transistor level and Ibis model 
>> voltage output during a transient analysis, considering the same
buffer.
>> In fact in presence of the same input voltage wave and for a high 
>> value of load resistance(for example 20Kohm)connected to power, we 
>> can observe a delay between TL output and Ibis output. In the Ibis 
>> file, for Open drain, Rise and fall waves tables have been extracted 
>> considering the same resistance connected to Power (20Kohm).
>> What is the cause of this strange behaviour?
>>
>>   Thanks and best regards
>>
>>         Roberto Izzi
>>    
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by 
>> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>>
>
>
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> =====================
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:30:50 -0500
From: "Todd Westerhoff" <twesterh@sisoft.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: [IBIS] Ibis open drain strange behaviour

Radovan,

I believe the qualifications to time correlation between HSpice and IBIS are
- - not necessarily, and yes, if.

Time 0 is an IBIS simulation is not guaranteed to have any special
significance.  You'd like to think that you could simulate your transistor
and IBIS model side by side into the same load and expect them to line up,
but there is no part of the spec that guarantees this.  The IBIS waveform
and the HSpice waveform will match in rise/fall time and shape, but they are
not guaranteed to align in time. 

Time 0 is an IBIS model is arbitrary, which is one of the reasons why
"buffer delay" simulations are used to normalize the simulated interconnect
delays (flight times) to the component timing specifications - this is where
Vref, Rref and Cref come from.

IF the person creating the IBIS model uses a particular ramp rate at the
HSpice model input, and IF the model creator uses the simulated HSpice
waveform in the IBIS model without trimming it, and IF the IBIS simulator
uses a similar ramp rate to stimulate the IBIS model with comparable
triggering thresholds, then - yes, the transistor and IBIS simulations will
line up in time.  In practice, this occurs pretty often - but it's important
to understand why.

Most IBIS extraction software takes the simulated waveform from HSpice and
puts it into the IBIS model unaltered (i.e. the IBIS output waveform does
not start rising at time 0, it includes the "intrinsic" delay of the output
buffer).  As you pointed out, the ramp rate of the input to the buffer (in
both the HSpice and IBIS simulations) is usually very fast compared to the
ramp rate of the output.  Thus, even if the input ramp rates or triggering
thresholds are somewhat mismatched, the difference gets swamped by the much
slower output ramp rate (and the simulations line up, or appear to).  You
need a significant mismatch in the stimulus rates to see a difference.

However, one gets into trouble when the intrinsic delay of the output buffer
approaches the device's data rate.  The output may not finish "switching" in
the IBIS curve before the next data bit is triggered.  This particular
behavior is problematic - the IBIS spec (last I looked) had no specific
recommendation on how simulators should handle "overclocking", and different
simulators handle this different ways.  This is a big problem for
semiconductor suppliers, as their models can have different behavior in
different tools.

The solution?  Well, the IBIS spec does not guarantee that time 0 is when
the input to the output buffer switches.  Time 0 in an IBIS simulation is
arbitrary.  So, the model creators trim the "dead time" off the front end of
the rising and falling V-T curves to ensure the outputs stabilize before the
end of the data unit interval, and the time correlation to HSpice is lost.
There are specific restrictions on how the dead time may be trimmed, which
is a longer discussion.

Point is, time correlation between IBIS and HSpice is not guaranteed.  It
happens frequently, but only as a consequence of the model building process.
Dimitry was correct to point out that time 0 in HSpice is often arbitrary in
itself - if we're dealing with a component with a clock-to-output spec, then
we really have no idea when the output buffer in the device gets triggered
with respect to the device's external clock pin anyway.

Hope that helps, or was at least coherent ...

Todd.

Todd Westerhoff
VP, Software Products
SiSoft
6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
Maynard, MA  01754
(978) 461-0449 x24
twesterh@sisoft.com
www.sisoft.com




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:53:15 -0800
From: "Syed Huq \(shuq\)" <shuq@cisco.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] DesignCon 2007: 4th call for papers - IBIS Summit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="us-ascii"
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To All:
=20
This is the fourth Announcement for the DesignCon 2007 IBIS Summit
Meeting held in Santa Clara, California.  The program is nearly
full and the agenda will be issued one week before the meeting.
=20
For those who have not done so, we strongly recommend that you
register for the DesignCon exhibition and, if possible the
conference.  Helpful links are given below.
=20
=20
Best Regards,
Syed
=20
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                              IBIS SUMMIT
                            FOURTH CALL FOR
                     PARTICIPATION & PRESENTATIONS
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
=20
=20
              I B I S   S U M M I T   M E E T I N G
=20
Time/Date:  Thursday, February 1, 2007 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM
=20
http://www.designcon.com/2007/conference/co-located_ibis.html
=20
Location:   Hyatt Regency Santa Clara
              (Connected to the Santa Clara Convention Center)
            5101 Great America Parkway,
            Santa Clara, California, USA
            Tel: +1-408-200-1234
=20
Content:    Presentations and Discussions
=20
Purpose:    Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and
            Ideas.
=20
Sponsors:   Cisco Systems, International Engineering Consortium
(DesignCon)
=20
            We are seeking more co-sponsors.  Please contact Syed Huq
            <shuq@cisco.com>.  The Benefits to sponsors include
            recognition at the meeting and acknowledgement in the Calls
            for Papers and meeting minutes.
=20
            Your financial support strengthens the organization by
            allowing IBIS to focus resources on industry activities
            rather than raising money, and you will receive generous
            thanks for your support.
=20
DesignCon 2007 Conference:
=20
            January 29 - February 1, 2007
            Santa Clara Convention Center
            Santa Clara, CA
=20
            Exhibit registration is Free if you register before
            January 26, 2007
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
              http://www.designcon.com/2007/
              http://www.designcon.com/2007/pdfs/dc07_catalog.pdf
              http://www.designcon.com/2007/registration/
=20=20=20=20
            Conference Schedule:
=20
              http://www.designcon.com/2007/conference/schedule.html
=20

BACKGROUND
=20
DesignCon is the premier annual Silicon Valley event for the electronic
design automation (EDA) and semiconductor industry.  Topics of current
interest to the EIA IBIS Open Forum are addressed at DesignCon.
=20
This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting.
Presentations are expected to be available and archived in an electronic
format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal
decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the
meeting.
=20
=20
CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS
=20
People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and
digital circuit design are invited to participate in the Summit meeting.
If you plan to participate, please register with the information below:
=20
   Name:
   E-mail address:
   Company:
   Telephone:
=20
Send to:
=20
   Syed Huq <shuq@cisco.com>
=20
Registration deadline is Wednesday, January 24, 2007 to receive the
free lunch.
=20
=20
CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS
=20
We are seeking presentations from individuals who have experiences
of interest to the IBIS modeling community.  In the past, these have
included, but not limited to:
=20
   Demonstrations of modeling techniques
   Explanations of behavioral algorithms
   Descriptions of difficulties encountered
   Model correlation
   Modeling building experiences
   Comparisons to other modeling methods
   New technologies for modeling buffers and component
   New technologies for modeling packaging and interconnect
   Etc.
=20
Presentations may be addressed to any and all levels of IBIS experience,
from beginning to advanced.
=20
Presentation Format:
=20
   A conference laptop with LCD projection.  Power Point or Acrobat
   electronic formats are favored and will pre-loaded on the
   Windows-based meeting laptop prior to the meeting.
=20
Time: Usually 15-30 Minutes
=20
Electronic Archival:
=20
   Presentations will be archived under the IBIS Summits site
   and also must be submitted in time for uploading and copying.
   Final submission deadline is:
=20
     Wednesday, January 24, 2007
=20
   Otherwise, you should bring 50 copies.
=20
If you plan a presentation, please supply the following information
as soon as possible:
=20
   Tentative Title:
   Presenter:
   E-mail address:
   Company:
   Telephone:
=20
   Estimated Time:
=20
Send to:
=20
   Bob Ross <bob@teraspeed.com>
=20
AGENDA
=20
The agenda includes presentations, discussions, breaks, and a FREE
lunch.  The agenda details will be developed as proposals are
received.  So far we tentatively have:
=20
  "IBIS Roadmap Update"
  "IBIS Modeling of USB Buffers"
  "Effects of IBIS Waveform Alignment on Simulation"
  "VT Initial Delay Issue"
  "Improving IBIS Algorithms"
  "Quality Committee Activities"
  "DFE Modeling using IBISv4.2/VHDL-AMS"
  "Advanced Technology Modeling Committee Update"
  "Power Delivery Analysis with IBIS 4.2"
=20
LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS
=20
The Hotel and Travel Link provides a conference hotel discount, and
use internet search engines other good lodging deals:
=20
   http://www.designcon.com/2007/conference/hotel_and_travel.html
=20
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20

=20
=20
=20

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3020" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>To All:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>This is the fourth=
=20
Announcement for the DesignCon 2007 IBIS Summit<BR>Meeting held in Santa Cl=
ara,=20
California.&nbsp; The program is nearly<BR>full and the agenda will be issu=
ed=20
one week before the meeting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>For those who have not done so, we stron=
gly=20
recommend that you<BR>register for the DesignCon exhibition and, if possibl=
e=20
the<BR>conference.&nbsp; Helpful links are given below.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>&nbsp;<BR>Best=20
Regards,<BR>Syed<BR>&nbsp;<BR>---------------------------------------------=
- --------------------------<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
IBIS=20
SUMMIT<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
FOURTH CALL=20
FOR<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
PARTICIPATION &amp;=20
PRESENTATIONS<BR>----------------------------------------------------------=
- -------------<BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
I B I S&nbsp;&nbsp; S U M M I T&nbsp;&nbsp; M E E T I N=20
G<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Time/Date:&nbsp; Thursday, February 1, 2007 8:00 AM to 5:00=
=20
PM<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=
=20
href=3D"http://www.designcon.com/2007/conference/co-located_ibis.html">http=
://www.designcon.com/2007/conference/co-located_ibis.html</A><BR>&nbsp;<BR>=
Location:&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Hyatt Regency Santa=20
Clara<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
(Connected to the Santa Clara Convention=20
Center)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=20
5101 Great America=20
Parkway,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
Santa Clara, California,=20
USA<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; T=
el:=20
+1-408-200-1234<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Content:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Presentations and=
=20
Discussions<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Purpose:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Solicit and Exchange IB=
IS=20
Model Related Information=20
and<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
Ideas.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Sponsors:&nbsp;&nbsp; Cisco Systems, International=20
Engineering Consortium=20
(DesignCon)<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
We are seeking more co-sponsors.&nbsp; Please contact Syed=20
Huq<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &=
lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:shuq@cisco.com">shuq@cisco.com</A>&gt;.&nbsp; The Benefits t=
o=20
sponsors=20
include<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=20
recognition at the meeting and acknowledgement in the=20
Calls<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 for=20
Papers and meeting=20
minutes.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Your financial support strengthens the organization=20
by<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
allowing IBIS to focus resources on industry=20
activities<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;=20
rather than raising money, and you will receive=20
generous<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
thanks for your support.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>DesignCon 2007=20
Conference:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
January 29 - February 1,=20
2007<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Santa=20
Clara Convention=20
Center<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
Santa Clara,=20
CA<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
Exhibit registration is Free if you register=20
before<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
January 26, 2007<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;=20
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.designcon.com/2007/">http://www.designcon.com/2007/</A><=
BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;=20
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.designcon.com/2007/pdfs/dc07_catalog.pdf">http://www.des=
igncon.com/2007/pdfs/dc07_catalog.pdf</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.designcon.com/2007/registration/">http://www.designcon.c=
om/2007/registration/</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Conference=20
Schedule:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.designcon.com/2007/conference/schedule.html">http://www.=
designcon.com/2007/conference/schedule.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>BACKGROUND<BR>&nbsp;<BR>DesignCon is the premier annual Silicon Va=
lley=20
event for the electronic<BR>design automation (EDA) and semiconductor=20
industry.&nbsp; Topics of current<BR>interest to the EIA IBIS Open Forum ar=
e=20
addressed at DesignCon.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>This meeting will be conducted as a fo=
rmal=20
IBIS Summit Meeting.<BR>Presentations are expected to be available and arch=
ived=20
in an electronic<BR>format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any=
=20
pending formal<BR>decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks pr=
ior=20
to the<BR>meeting.<BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS<BR>&nbsp;<BR>People involved in IBIS Model=20
development, EDA tool development, and<BR>digital circuit design are invite=
d to=20
participate in the Summit meeting.<BR>If you plan to participate, please=20
register with the information below:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Name:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; E-mail address:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Company:<BR>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
Telephone:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Send to:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Syed Huq &lt;<A=
=20
href=3D"mailto:shuq@cisco.com">shuq@cisco.com</A>&gt;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Registra=
tion=20
deadline is Wednesday, January 24, 2007 to receive the<BR>free=20
lunch.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS<BR>&nbsp;<BR>We are se=
eking=20
presentations from individuals who have experiences<BR>of interest to the I=
BIS=20
modeling community.&nbsp; In the past, these have<BR>included, but not limi=
ted=20
to:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Demonstrations of modeling=20
techniques<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Explanations of behavioral algorithms<BR>&nbsp;&=
nbsp;=20
Descriptions of difficulties encountered<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Model=20
correlation<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Modeling building experiences<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
Comparisons to other modeling methods<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; New technologies for=
=20
modeling buffers and component<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; New technologies for modelin=
g=20
packaging and interconnect<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Etc.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Presentations =
may=20
be addressed to any and all levels of IBIS experience,<BR>from beginning to=
=20
advanced.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Presentation Format:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; A=20
conference laptop with LCD projection.&nbsp; Power Point or=20
Acrobat<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; electronic formats are favored and will pre-loaded =
on=20
the<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Windows-based meeting laptop prior to the=20
meeting.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Time: Usually 15-30 Minutes<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Electronic=
=20
Archival:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Presentations will be archived under th=
e=20
IBIS Summits site<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; and also must be submitted in time for=20
uploading and copying.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Final submission deadline=20
is:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Wednesday, January 24,=20
2007<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Otherwise, you should bring 50=20
copies.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>If you plan a presentation, please supply the followin=
g=20
information<BR>as soon as possible:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Tentative=20
Title:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Presenter:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; E-mail=20
address:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Company:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Telephone:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Estimated Time:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Send=20
to:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Bob Ross &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:bob@teraspeed.com">bob@teraspeed.com</A>&gt;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>AG=
ENDA<BR>&nbsp;<BR>The=20
agenda includes presentations, discussions, breaks, and a FREE<BR>lunch.&nb=
sp;=20
The agenda details will be developed as proposals are<BR>received.&nbsp; So=
 far=20
we tentatively have:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; "IBIS Roadmap Update"<BR>&nbsp; "IBIS Modeling of USB=20
Buffers"<BR>&nbsp; "Effects of IBIS Waveform Alignment on Simulation"<BR>&n=
bsp;=20
"VT Initial Delay Issue"<BR>&nbsp; "Improving IBIS Algorithms"<BR>&nbsp;=20
"Quality Committee Activities"<BR>&nbsp; "DFE Modeling using=20
IBISv4.2/VHDL-AMS"<BR>&nbsp; "Advanced Technology Modeling Committee=20
Update"<BR>&nbsp; "Power Delivery Analysis with IBIS 4.2"<BR>&nbsp;<BR>LIST=
 OF=20
NEARBY HOTELS<BR>&nbsp;<BR>The Hotel and Travel Link provides a conference =
hotel=20
discount, and<BR>use internet search engines other good lodging=20
deals:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://www.designcon.com/2007/conference/hotel_and_travel.html">htt=
p://www.designcon.com/2007/conference/hotel_and_travel.html</A><BR>&nbsp;<B=
R>-----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY><br />--=20
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