From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #119 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Precedence: bulk ibis-users Monday, August 18 2008 Volume 01 : Number 119 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 18:03:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Babid A Subject: [IBIS-Users] problem running s2ibis3 - --0-1358539590-1214701412=:58540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Experts, =A0 I just starting using spice2Ibis tool, I am getting following error, =A0 " jave.io.FileNotFoundException: putOUT.out"=20 =A0 I am able to locate putout.spi file in my working directory but still it co= mplains about it, basically it says error in running HSpice,=A0=20 =A0 I apprecaite any help on this? =A0 - -Thanks, =A0 =20=20=20=20=20=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --0-1358539590-1214701412=:58540 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Experts,

 

I just starting using spice2Ibis tool, I am getting following error,

 

" jave.io.FileNotFoundException: putOUT.out"

 

I am able to locate putout.spi file in my working directory but still it complains about it, basically it says error in running HSpice, 

 

I apprecaite any help on this?

 

-Thanks,

 



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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - --0-1358539590-1214701412=:58540-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:32:25 +0300 From: "Itzhak Peleg" Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: [IBIS] spice2IBIS This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8D9B1.E5A03A07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Babid =20 I think that must of the experienced IBIS creators use their own developed tools.=20 =20 I am not familiar with any commercial tool that can produce IBIS models with all the flexibility and options needed (not even mentioning ease of use). Usually the IBIS production phase is very tedious unless you are equipped with tools that cover all your needs. =20 Best regards, Itzik Peleg, Senior Signal Integrity Engineer P before printing this email, think about the environment This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or by e-mail and delete the message from your computer. ________________________________ From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Mike LaBonte (milabont) Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 6:37 PM To: babid_a@yahoo.com; ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS] spice2IBIS =20 I will not recommend a particular IBIS creation tool, but can say that they are generally found as offerings from the companies who produce IBIS simulators. =20 As for s2ibis3, notable shortcomings are that it does not calculate C_comp and it will "double count" on-die termination currents by placing them in both the [Ground Clamp] and [Power Clamp] curves. Converting differential output buffers will require some manual intervention. The commercial tools tend to take away the pain of these issues. =20 One consideration: buffer models that require clocked initialization sequences are increasingly common, and nearly impossible to convert with s2ibis3. But I'm not sure how well any available tools handle these, since the tools tend to use DC analysis to extract I/V curves and those buffer models simply do not work in a DC analysis. I have in the past resorted to rewriting s2ibis2 to use transient analysis instead of DC analysis for I/V curves. It is possible that some other tools may have also done this. =20 Unfortunately I find myself having to generalize about all of this. You would have to contact the various vendors to get the specifics. =20 Mike =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Babid A Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:49 PM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS] spice2IBIS Hello, =20 I am new to creating IBIS models, I am planning to use s2ibis3 tool from north carolina university for IBIS model creation for the single ended buffers. Is there any limitations with this free tool? What is the best tool for creating IBIS models.? =20 - -Thanks, - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8D9B1.E5A03A07 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Babid

 

I think that must of the experienced I= BIS creators use their own developed tools.

 

I am not familiar with any commercial = tool that can produce IBIS models with all the flexibility and options needed (n= ot even mentioning ease of use). Usually the IBIS production phase is very ted= ious unless you are equipped with tools that cover all your needs.

 

Best regards,=

Itzik Peleg, Senior Signal Integrity Engineer
P before printi= ng this email, think about the environment This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or by e-mail and delete the message from your computer.

From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Mike LaBonte (milabont)<= br> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 = 6:37 PM
To: babid_a@yahoo.com; ibis-= users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org
Subject: RE: [IBIS] spice2IB= IS

 

I will not recommend a particular IBIS creation tool, but can say that they are generally found as offer= ings from the companies who produce IBIS simulators.

 

As for s2ibis3, notable shortcomings are that it does not calculate C_comp and it will "double count" on-die termination currents by placing them in both the [Ground Clamp] and [Power Clamp] curves. Converting differential output buffers will require some manual intervention. The commercial tools tend to take away the pain of these issues.

 

One consideration: buffer models that require clocked initialization sequences are increasingly common,= and nearly impossible to convert with s2ibis3. But I'm not sure how well a= ny available tools handle these, since the tools tend to use DC analysis = to extract I/V curves and those buffer models simply do not work in a DC analy= sis. I have in the past resorted to rewriting s2ibis2 to use transient analysis instead of DC analysis for I/V curves. It is possible that some other tools= may have also done this.

 

Unfortunately I find myself having to generalize about all of this. You would have to contact the various vendors= to get the specifics.

 

Mike

 

From:= owner-ibis@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Babid A
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 200= 8 7:49 PM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.or= g; ibis@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS] spice2IBIS

Hello,

 

I am new to creating IBIS models, I am planning to use s2ibis3 tool from north carolina university for IBIS model creation for the single ended buffers. Is there= any limitations with this free tool? What is the best tool for creating IBIS models.?

 

-Thanks,



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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8D9B1.E5A03A07-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:03:46 -0700 From: "Lynne D. Green" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Regarding S-Parameters models included on IBIS This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C8DC65.97C1D790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since no one else has replied, I will take a stab at it. 1) The RLC lumped package parameters are REQUIRED by IBIS syntax. Many tools have minimum values for these parameters. If minimum values are an issue, it might be necessary to include a simple package model to insure the tool does not use the RLC pkg values. 2) The IBIS buffer data and the S-parameter data are maintained in separate files within IBIS. 3) The S-parameter model is presently connected at the "schematic" or "layout" level in most tools. This means the user has to connect the package ports to the package pins or pads. This is expected to be fixed in IBIS 5.x. 4) For customer use, an Application Note or web-based Design Kit is invaluable. This could, for example, show the easiest way for the customer to hook up the package and chip. Best of luck! Lynne "IBIS training when you need it, where you need it." Next public IBIS seminar is Oct 9-10 in Fremont, CA. Dr. Lynne Green Green Streak Programs http://www.greenstreakprograms.com 425-788-0412 lgreen22@mindspring.com _____ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Juarez Hernandez Esdras Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 8:50 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Regarding S-Parameters models included on IBIS Hi ibis experts! Is it possible to include s-parameter definition for a package into an IBIS model, or it is necessary to have the lumped RLC equivalent? So far we have only available the s-parameters model for the package, but we don't know how to include this info into the IBIS model... We will really appreciate your feedback regarding this point. Thanks in advance!!! Best Regards: Esdras - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C8DC65.97C1D790 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Since no one else has replied, I will take a sta= b at=20 it.
 
1) The RLC lumped package parameters are REQUIRE= D by=20 IBIS syntax.  Many tools have minimum values for these parameters.&nbs= p; If=20 minimum values are an issue, it might be necessary to include a simple pack= age=20 model to insure the tool does not use the RLC pkg values.
 
2) The IBIS buffer data and the S-parameter data= are=20 maintained in separate files within IBIS.
 
3) The S-parameter model is presently connected = at the=20 "schematic" or "layout" level in most tools.  This means the user has = to=20 connect the package ports to the package pins or pads.  This is expect= ed to=20 be fixed in IBIS 5.x.
 
4) For customer use, an Application Note or web-= based=20 Design Kit is invaluable.  This could, for example, show the easi= est=20 way for the customer to hook up the package and chip.
 
Best of luck!
 
Lynne
 
 
"IBIS training when you need it, where you need= =20 it."
Next public IBIS seminar is Oct 9-10 in Fremont, CA.<= /DIV>
 
Dr. Lynne Green
Green Streak Programs
http://www.greenstreakprograms.= com
425-788-0412
lgreen22@mindspring.com<= /FONT>
 

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Juarez Hernandez=20 Esdras
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 8:50 AM
To:=20 ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Regarding S-Parameters= =20 models included on IBIS

Hi ibis= =20 experts!
 
Is it p= ossible to=20 include s-parameter definition for a package into an IBIS model, or it is= =20 necessary to have the lumped RLC equivalent?
So far = we have=20 only available the s-parameters model for the package, but we don't know = how=20 to include this info into the IBIS model...
We will= really=20 appreciate your feedback regarding this point. Thanks in=20 advance!!!
 
Best Re= gards:=20 Esdras

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This message has been scanned for vi= ruses=20 and
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--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C8DC65.97C1D790-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:33:21 -0500 From: "Tony Dunbar" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Regarding S-Parameters models included on IBIS This is a multipart message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C8DDB0.9E8C0C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Esdras, It is possible to include an S-Parameter definition of a package model in an IBIS file using the [External Circuit] keyword. The [Model] constructs for the buffers remain separate in the IBIS file. However, your real challenge will be to put that to use in a Signal Integrity software application. Very few of them support an IBIS file that uses the [External Circuit] or [External Model] constructs. Most high-end silicon vendors provide their S-Parameter package models in separate Touchstone Files along with the silicon models in either IBIS or SPICE format and leave it to the end user to put them together in a simulation in the way that suits their methodology and tools. Thanks! Tony From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Juarez Hernandez Esdras Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:50 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Regarding S-Parameters models included on IBIS Hi ibis experts! Is it possible to include s-parameter definition for a package into an IBIS model, or it is necessary to have the lumped RLC equivalent? So far we have only available the s-parameters model for the package, but we don't know how to include this info into the IBIS model... We will really appreciate your feedback regarding this point. Thanks in advance!!! Best Regards: Esdras - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C8DDB0.9E8C0C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Esdras,

 

It is possible to include an S-Parameter definition of a packa= ge model in an IBIS file using the [External Circuit] keyword. The [Model] constructs for the buffers remain separate in the IBIS file. However, your = real challenge will be to put that to use in a Signal Integrity software applica= tion. Very few of them support an IBIS file that uses the [External Circuit] or [External Model] constructs.

 

Most high-end silicon vendors provide their S-Parameter package models in separate Touchstone Files along with the silicon models in either IBIS or SPICE format and leave it to the end user to put them together in a simulation in the way that suits their methodology and tools.

 

Thanks!

Tony

 

From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Juarez Hernandez Esdras
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:50 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Regarding S-Parameters models included on IBIS=

 

Hi ibis experts!

 

Is it possible to include s-parameter definition for a package into an IBIS mo= del, or it is necessary to have the lumped RLC equivalent?

So far we have only available the s-parameters model for the package, but we d= on't know how to include this info into the IBIS model...

We will really appreciate your feedback regarding this point. Thanks in advanc= e!!!

 

Best Regards: Esdras


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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C8DDB0.9E8C0C20-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:31:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Babid A Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis3 in debug mode - --0-557591446-1215541883=:39719 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, =A0 I am having issues while running s2ibis3 tool, it just hangs forever once i= t starts putout.spi simulation. Is it possible to run s2ibis3 in debug mode= , so that I can see whats going on in the run time? =A0 Thanks, - -Babid =20=20=20=20=20=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --0-557591446-1215541883=:39719 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

All,

 

I am having issues while running s2ibis3 tool, it just hangs forever once it starts putout.spi simulation. Is it possible to run s2ibis3 in debug mode, so that I can see whats going on in the run time?

 

Thanks,

-Babid



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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - --0-557591446-1215541883=:39719-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:03:53 -0400 From: "Lance Wang" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis3 in debug mode This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_042A_01C8E13E.218D27E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Babid, We are officially taking care of s2ibis3 now. Please go to http://iometh.com/Product/eval/s2ibis3_support.html and submit a request. Someone will help you for the issues. Thanks, Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. 978-764-2298 FREE !!! SignalMethTM Release 200803 - - Enhance your Signal Integrity Analysis Performance Goto www.iometh.com for details _____ From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Babid A Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 2:31 PM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis3 in debug mode All, I am having issues while running s2ibis3 tool, it just hangs forever once it starts putout.spi simulation. Is it possible to run s2ibis3 in debug mode, so that I can see whats going on in the run time? Thanks, - -Babid - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_042A_01C8E13E.218D27E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, Babid,

We are officially taking care of s2ibi= s3 now.

 

Please go to http://iometh.= com/Product/eval/s2ibis3_support.html and submit a request. Someone will help you for the issues.

 

Thanks,

 

 

La= nce Wang

IO Methodology Inc.

97= 8-764-2298

 

FREE !!!

SignalMethTM Relea= se 200803

- Enhance your Signal Integrity Analysis Performance=

Go= to = www.iometh.com for details

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> 

 

From:= = owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Babid A
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008= 2:31 PM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.or= g
Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis= 3 in debug mode

 

All,

 

I am having issues while running s2ibis3 tool, it just hangs forever once it starts putout.spi simulation. Is it possible to run s2ibis3 in debug mode= , so that I can see whats going on in the run time?

 

Thanks,

-Babid



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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_042A_01C8E13E.218D27E0-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 11:12:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Babid A Subject: [IBIS-Users] load line error - --0-1125603659-1215627156=:50047 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, =A0 I am getting following error when I run IBIS parser, =A0 ERROR - Model drv_out: The [Falling Waveform]=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 with [R_fixture]=3D50 Ohms and [V_fixture]=3D2.5V =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 has TYP column DC endpoints of=A0 0.50V and=A0 2.50v, but =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 different voltages (-0.59V and=A0 0.63V), =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 a difference of 89.46% and 153.09%, respectively. =A0 I appreciate suggestions or documents to find the solution for this problem. =A0 Thanks, - -Babid. =20=20=20=20=20=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --0-1125603659-1215627156=:50047 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi All,

 

I am getting following error when I run IBIS parser,

 

ERROR - Model drv_out: The [Falling Waveform]
      with [R_fixture]=50 Ohms and [V_fixture]=2.5V
      has TYP column DC endpoints of  0.50V and  2.50v, but
      an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields
      different voltages (-0.59V and  0.63V),
      a difference of 89.46% and 153.09%, respectively.

 

I appreciate suggestions or documents to find the solution for this problem.

 

Thanks,

-Babid.



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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - --0-1125603659-1215627156=:50047-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:14:46 -0700 From: "Tom Dagostino" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] load line error This is a multipart message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C8E1BD.61454FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When this happens it means the IV curves do not match the VT curves. The IV curves imply the output impedance of the driver in either the high or low state for an output. Think of a circuit that has a voltage source with zero output impedance. In series with that source is an impedance described by the IV curve. If you place a load on the driver when the output is high and the load is tied to ground there will be a current that flows. But not all of the voltage of the source will be dropped across the resistor to ground, some of it will be dropped in the output impedance of the voltage source. There is a voltage divider formed by the output impedance and the load. And I'm sure you remember EE101 and can solve for the output voltage. In your case the first and last voltage points on your VT curve sound reasonable. But the parser predicted an output voltage of -0.59 and 0.63V when a 50 Ohm load is attached to the output and the other end is tied to a 2.5V termination. What you have to do is figure out why the IV curves are not correct for this buffer. Step number one is to plot the pullup, pulldown, powerclamp and groundclamp curves. They should look like the examples you see in the IBIS standard or the IBIS cookbook. If not you need to understand why and regenerate the 4 tables. Remember when the parser computes the output voltage in the low state it sums the pulldown, powerclamp and groundclamp together. Likewise for the high state it sums the pullup, groundclamp and powerclamp together. Regards, Tom Dagostino Teraspeed(R) Labs 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 503-430-1065 503-430-1285 FAX tom@teraspeed.com www.teraspeed.com Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 121 North River Drive Narragansett, RI 02882 401-284-1827 From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Babid A Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 11:13 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] load line error Hi All, I am getting following error when I run IBIS parser, ERROR - Model drv_out: The [Falling Waveform] with [R_fixture]=50 Ohms and [V_fixture]=2.5V has TYP column DC endpoints of 0.50V and 2.50v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages (-0.59V and 0.63V), a difference of 89.46% and 153.09%, respectively. I appreciate suggestions or documents to find the solution for this problem. Thanks, - -Babid. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C8E1BD.61454FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

When this happens it means the IV curves do not match the VT curves.  The IV curves imply the output impedance of the driver in eit= her the high or low state for an output.  Think of a circuit that has a vo= ltage source with zero output impedance.  In series with that source is an impedance described by the IV curve.  If you place a load on the driver when the output is high and the load is tied to ground there will be a curr= ent that flows.  But not all of the voltage of the source will be dropped = across the resistor to ground, some of it will be dropped in the output impedance = of the voltage source.  There is a voltage divider formed by the output impedance and the load.  And I’m sure you remember EE101 and can= solve for the output voltage. 

 

In your case the first and last voltage points on your VT cu= rve sound reasonable.  But the parser predicted an output voltage of -0.59= and 0.63V when a 50 Ohm load is attached to the output and the other end is tie= d to a 2.5V termination. 

 

What you have to do is figure out why the IV curves are not correct for this buffer.  Step number one is to plot the pullup, pulld= own, powerclamp and groundclamp curves.  They should look like the examples= you see in the IBIS standard or the IBIS cookbook.  If not you need to und= erstand why and regenerate the 4 tables.  Remember when the parser computes the output voltage in the low state it sums the pulldown, powerclamp and ground= clamp together.  Likewise for the high state it sums the pullup, groundclamp= and powerclamp together.

 

Regards,

 

Tom Dagostino
Teraspeed(R) Labs
13610 SW Harness Lane
Beaverton, OR 97008
503-430-1065

503-430-1285 FAX
tom@teraspeed.com
www.teraspeed.com

Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
121 North River Drive
Narragansett, RI 02882
401-284-1827

 

From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Babid A
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 11:13 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] load line error

 

Hi All,

 

I am getting following error when I run IBIS parser,

 

ERROR - Model drv_out: The [Falling Waveform]
      with [R_fixture]=3D50 Ohms and [V_fixture]= =3D2.5V
      has TYP column DC endpoints of  0.50V and  2.50v, but
      an equivalent load applied to the model's = I-V tables yields
      different voltages (-0.59V and  0.63V= ),
      a difference of 89.46% and 153.09%, respec= tively.

 

I appreciate suggestions or documents to find the solution for this problem.

 

Thanks,

-Babid.



- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanne= r, and is
believed to be clean.


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C8E1BD.61454FA0-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 11:40:48 +0530 From: "Muniswara Reddy Vorugu" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] load line error This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8E31C.DD3D2CD4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Babid, This error signifies I-V and V-T Mismatch.=20=20 For understanding the meaning of this error refer to=20 IBIS Cookbook 4.0 Section 5.2.2 : I-V and V-T Matching find this document at http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/ver4.0/ =20 Reasons could be of Incomplete VT waveform. VT Waveform Might have not captured initial stable point and final stable point. =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 The following document has discussed some common errors, their possible causes and common solutions. Hope this will be helpful A Critique of IBIS Models Available For Download On the Web - - Part I. Pages 13-14 available @ http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan02/bell2.pdf =20 Thanks, Muniswar ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Babid A Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 11:43 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] load line error =20 Hi All, =20 I am getting following error when I run IBIS parser, =20 ERROR - Model drv_out: The [Falling Waveform]=20 with [R_fixture]=3D50 Ohms and [V_fixture]=3D2.5V has TYP column DC endpoints of 0.50V and 2.50v, but an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields different voltages (-0.59V and 0.63V), a difference of 89.46% and 153.09%, respectively. =20 I appreciate suggestions or documents to find the solution for this problem. =20 Thanks, - -Babid. - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8E31C.DD3D2CD4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Babid,

This error signifies   I-V and V-T Mismatch.  =

For understanding the meaning of this error refer to

           &= nbsp;       IBIS Cookbook 4.0    Section 5.2.2   :  I-V a= nd V-T Matching<= /font>

         &n= bsp;            find = this document at  http://www.eda-stds.org/p= ub/ibis/ver4.0/

 

Reasons could be of Incomplete VT waveform.  VT Wavef= orm Might have not captured initial stable point and final stable point.

      &n= bsp;    

The following document has discussed s= ome common errors, their possible causes and common solutions. Hope this will be helpful

      &n= bsp;     A Critique of IBIS Models Available For Download On the Web – Part I.   Pages 13-14

          available @ =  http://www.vh= dl.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan02/bell2.pdf

 

Thanks,

Muniswar

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Babid A
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 20= 08 11:43 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] load l= ine error

 

Hi All,

 

I am getting following error when I run IBIS parser,<= /p>

 

ERROR - Model drv_out: The [Falling Waveform]
      with [R_fixture]=3D50 Ohms and [V_fixture]= =3D2.5V
      has TYP column DC endpoints of  0.50V and  2.50v, but
      an equivalent load applied to the model's = I-V tables yields
      different voltages (-0.59V and  0.63V= ),
      a difference of 89.46% and 153.09%, respectively.

 

I appreciate suggestions or documents to find the solution for this problem= .

 

Thanks,

-Babid.



- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8E31C.DD3D2CD4-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:19:28 -0700 From: "Wei Zhang" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Question about modeling a differential output driver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F0F7.9E8BF61E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IBIS experts, =20 I have a question about "IBIS Modeling Cookbook for IBIS Version 4.0" and a presentation refered in it: "Details on True Differential Buffer Characterization Revisited."=20 =20 In this presentation, the driver is characterized for Vp=3D0~1.8V and Vn=3D0~1.8V with power supply @ 1.8V. =20 My question is that whether I shall run the simulation for -1.8V to +3.6V according to IBIS v4.2? The spec requires [Pullup] and [Pulldown] tables to be specified for -vcc to 2*vcc, which is -1.8V ~ +3.6V in this case. =20 Or, shall I assume that the series [Model] is only extracted for voltages from 0 ~ 1.8V and the rest (common-mode models) still have tables ranging from -1.8V to +3.6V? =20 thanks, Wei =20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F0F7.9E8BF61E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
IBIS=20 experts,
 
I have a question about "IBIS Modeling Cookbook = for=20 IBIS Version 4.0" and a presentation refered in it: "Details on True Differential Buffer Characteriz= ation=20 Revisited." 
 
In this presentation= , the=20 driver is characterized for Vp=3D0~1.8V and Vn=3D0~1.8V with power supply @= =20 1.8V.
 
My = question is=20 that whether I shall run the simulation for -1.8V to +3.6V according to IBI= S=20 v4.2? The spec requires [Pullup]=20 and [Pulldown] tables to be specified for -vcc to 2*vcc, which is -1.8= V ~=20 +3.6V in this case.
 
Or, shall I assume that the series [Model= ] is=20 only extracted for voltages from 0 ~ 1.8V and the rest (common-mode models) still have tables ra= nging=20 from -1.8V to +3.6V?
 
thanks,
Wei
 

--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F0F7.9E8BF61E-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:08:28 -0700 From: "Lynne D. Green" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Question about modeling a differential output driver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C8F0E5.51DD8C30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Wei, The VI tables must have end points at -Vcc and +2Vcc to pass the parser. The VI tables must also match the two DC endpoints for each Vt table. Both of these are required by the IBIS parser. The actual I/O table data must cover the range of voltages such that ALL possible rising and falling reflected voltages are included. Beyond those requirements, the table can be extended to meet constraints set by the parser. You might also want to talk with your tool vendor about what they recommend. Lynne "IBIS training when you need it, where you need it." Next public IBIS seminar is Oct 9-10 in Fremont, CA. Dr. Lynne Green Green Streak Programs http://www.greenstreakprograms.com 425-788-0412 lgreen22@mindspring.com _____ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Wei Zhang Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 2:19 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Question about modeling a differential output driver IBIS experts, I have a question about "IBIS Modeling Cookbook for IBIS Version 4.0" and a presentation refered in it: "Details on True Differential Buffer Characterization Revisited." In this presentation, the driver is characterized for Vp=0~1.8V and Vn=0~1.8V with power supply @ 1.8V. My question is that whether I shall run the simulation for -1.8V to +3.6V according to IBIS v4.2? The spec requires [Pullup] and [Pulldown] tables to be specified for -vcc to 2*vcc, which is -1.8V ~ +3.6V in this case. Or, shall I assume that the series [Model] is only extracted for voltages from 0 ~ 1.8V and the rest (common-mode models) still have tables ranging from -1.8V to +3.6V? thanks, Wei - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C8F0E5.51DD8C30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello, Wei,
 
The VI tables must have end points at -Vcc and +2V= cc to=20 pass the parser.  The VI tables must also match the two DC endpoints f= or=20 each Vt table.  Both of these are required by the IBIS=20 parser.
 <= /DIV>
The = actual I/O=20 table data must cover the range of voltages such that ALL possible ris= ing=20 and falling reflected voltages are included.  Beyo= nd those=20 requirements, the table can be extended to meet constraints set by the=20 parser.
 
You might also want to talk with your tool vendor = about=20 what they recommend.
 
Lynne
 
 
"IBIS training when you need it, where you need=20 it."
Next public IBIS seminar is Oct 9-10 in Fremont, CA.<= /DIV>
 
Dr. Lynne Green
Green Streak Programs
http://www.greenstreakprograms.= com
425-788-0412
lgreen22@mindspring.com<= /SPAN>

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Wei=20 Zhang
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 2:19 PM
To:=20 ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Question about modelin= g a=20 differential output driver

IBIS=20 experts,
 
<= SPAN=20 class=3D847293701-26072008>I have a question about "IBIS Modeling Cookboo= k for=20 IBIS Version 4.0" and a presentation refered in it: "Details on True Differential Buffer Character= ization=20 Revisited." 
<= SPAN=20 class=3D847293701-26072008> 
<= SPAN=20 class=3D847293701-26072008>In this presentati= on, the=20 driver is characterized for Vp=3D0~1.8V and Vn=3D0~1.8V with power supply= @=20 1.8V.
 
M= y question=20 is that whether I shall run the simulation for -1.8V to +3.6V according t= o=20 IBIS v4.2? The spec requires [Pul= lup]=20 and [Pulldown] tables to be specified for -vcc to 2*vcc, which is -1= .8V ~=20 +3.6V in this case.
 
<= SPAN=20 class=3D847293701-26072008>Or, shall I assume that the series [Mod= el] is=20 only extracted for voltages from 0 ~ 1.8V and the rest (common-mode models) still have tables = ranging=20 from -1.8V to +3.6V?
 
thanks,
Wei
 

--
This me= ssage=20 has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean.

--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C8F0E5.51DD8C30-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:33:36 +0530 From: "Sudarshan H N" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Usage of V-T curves - ------=_Part_107411_20756814.1217837016878 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi, Can somebody explain me the usage of V-T curves in IBIS simulations at the board level. While generating V-T curves we assume some resistive load (say 50ohm) and give the rising and falling waveforms. But the actual board might see the different RLC values . How does the tool interpolate or extrapolate these curves to get the exact waveforms at the driver output for the given load with just one table of V-T curves. ? Regards Sudarshan - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_Part_107411_20756814.1217837016878 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Hi,

Can somebody explain me the usage of V-T curves in IBIS simulations at the board level. While generating V-T curves we assume some resistive load (say 50ohm) and give the rising and falling waveforms. But the actual board might see the different RLC values . How does the tool interpolate or extrapolate these curves to get the exact waveforms at the driver output for the given load with just one table of V-T curves. ?

Regards
Sudarshan

--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------=_Part_107411_20756814.1217837016878-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 08:21:01 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: [IBIS] Usage of V-T curves This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F645.B56CBF6A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The first 8 pages of this presentation might answer your questions: =20 http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/summits/jun03b/muranyi1.pdf =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behal= f Of Sudarshan H N Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:04 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS] Usage of V-T curves Hi, Can somebody explain me the usage of V-T curves in IBIS simulations at the = board level. While generating V-T curves we assume some resistive load (say= 50ohm) and give the rising and falling waveforms. But the actual board mig= ht see the different RLC values . How does the tool interpolate or extrapol= ate these curves to get the exact waveforms at the driver output for the gi= ven load with just one table of V-T curves. ? Regards Sudarshan - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is=20 believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F645.B56CBF6A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The first 8 pages of this presentation
might answer your questions:
 
http://ww= w.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/summits/jun03b/muranyi1.pdf
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 

From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Sudarshan H=20 N
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:04 AM
To:=20 ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS] Us= age=20 of V-T curves

Hi,

Can somebody explain me the usage of V-T curves i= n IBIS=20 simulations at the board level. While generating V-T curves we assume some= =20 resistive load (say 50ohm) and give the rising and falling waveforms. But t= he=20 actual board might see the different RLC values . How does the tool interpo= late=20 or extrapolate these curves to get the exact waveforms at the driver output= for=20 the given load with just one table of V-T curves.=20 ?

Regards
Sudarshan

--
This message has been sca= nned=20 for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F645.B56CBF6A-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:26:18 +0000 From: "Estella Silva" Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS models for Relays - --2_0_1b9_1a95f06MHTML_=_01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hello. =20 Can anyone advise on how to create IBIS models for relays?=20 =20 Thanks & best regards, Estella =20 =20 _____=20=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner, and is=20 believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --2_0_1b9_1a95f06MHTML_=_01 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

Hello.

 

Can anyone advise on how to create IBIS models for relay= s?

 

Thanks & best regards,

Estella

 

 

  

- --=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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- --2_0_1b9_1a95f06MHTML_=_01-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 09:44:04 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS models for Relays This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F651.4FBCF1DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check out the "Series_switch" model type. =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Estella Silva Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:26 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS models for Relays Hello.=20 =20=20 Can anyone advise on how to create IBIS models for relays?=20 =20=20 Thanks & best regards,=20 Estella=20 =20=20 =20=20 ________________________________ =20=20=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F651.4FBCF1DB Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Check out the "Series_switch" model type.
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org= =20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Estella=20 Silva
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:26 AM
To:=20 ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Use= rs]=20 IBIS models for Relays

Hello.

 

Can anyone advise on how to c= reate=20 IBIS models for relays?

 

Thanks & best=20 regards,

Estella=20

 =20

 =20

  

--
This message has be= en=20 scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.
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This message has been scanned for viruses and=20
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.=20


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F651.4FBCF1DB-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:59:29 +0000 From: Vaibhav Agarwal Subject: [IBIS-Users] Differential Driver IBIS Modelling This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------080503050300090104040301 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello ibis experts, I am into the IBIS modelling of a differential buffer. Some of the models available on web are simply using [Diff Pin]. while some of the differential drivers use [Series Pin Mapping] with any Series [Model]. Can you please explain that a series model is required or not and if required on what basis it is chosen (RSeries or CSeries or Series Mosfet or Series Current, which one to take). I went through some pdf's but I am looking for more elaborate explanation of this topic. PLease help. Regards, Vaibhav - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --------------080503050300090104040301 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello ibis experts,

I am into the IBIS modelling of a differential buffer.

Some of the models available on web are simply using [Diff Pin].
while some of the differential drivers use [Series Pin Mapping] with any Series [Model].

Can you please explain that a series model is required or not and if required
on what basis it is chosen (RSeries or CSeries or Series Mosfet or Series Current, which one to take).

I went through some pdf's but I am looking for more elaborate explanation of this topic. PLease help.

Regards,
Vaibhav



--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --------------080503050300090104040301-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:46:20 +0000 From: Vaibhav Agarwal Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Differential Driver IBIS Modelling Hello all, I am remailing this query as the previous message might have bounced. Please refer some documents relating to my query of IBIS modelling of a differential buffer. Regards, Vaibhav - ------Query earlier mailed > Hello ibis experts, > >> >> I am into the IBIS modelling of a differential buffer. >> >> Some of the models available on web are simply using [Diff Pin]. >> while some of the differential drivers use [Series Pin Mapping] with >> any Series [Model]. >> >> Can you please explain that a series model is required or not and if >> required >> on what basis it is chosen (RSeries or CSeries or Series Mosfet or >> Series Current, which one to take). >> >> I went through some pdf's but I am looking for more elaborate >> explanation of this topic. PLease help. >> >> Regards, >> Vaibhav > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 09:50:02 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Differential Driver IBIS Modelling This presentation may answer your questions regarding when you need to use the series keywords for differential buffers: http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/summits/feb04a/muranyi1.pdf You may also want to read the IBIS cookbook to find out which keyword is best for which situation. http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/cookbook/cookbook-v4.pdf See section 4.6.2... Arpad ============================================= - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Vaibhav Agarwal Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 5:46 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Differential Driver IBIS Modelling Hello all, I am remailing this query as the previous message might have bounced. Please refer some documents relating to my query of IBIS modelling of a differential buffer. Regards, Vaibhav - ------Query earlier mailed > Hello ibis experts, > >> >> I am into the IBIS modelling of a differential buffer. >> >> Some of the models available on web are simply using [Diff Pin]. >> while some of the differential drivers use [Series Pin Mapping] with >> any Series [Model]. >> >> Can you please explain that a series model is required or not and if >> required >> on what basis it is chosen (RSeries or CSeries or Series Mosfet or >> Series Current, which one to take). >> >> I went through some pdf's but I am looking for more elaborate >> explanation of this topic. PLease help. >> >> Regards, >> Vaibhav > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:24:50 +0200 From: Rene Voshol Subject: [IBIS-Users] Conditions for clamp and pullup/down tables This is a multipart message in MIME format. - --=_alternative 00443270C125749F_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have a question about the conditions used to extract the data for the=20 clamp and the pullup/down curves. I understand that the temperature range= =20 given in the model should correspond to the min. and max. conditions of=20 the device. Meaning that for the pullup/down curve of a CMOS device you=20 will have maximum performance with low temperature, and vice versa. But=20 the clamp of this same the device will most likely be a diode, of some=20 sorts, which will have the reverse temperature behavior. Since both curves= =20 are substracted, you need to apply the same conditions when extracting the= =20 curves. In which case I use the pullup/down curve as reference. My questions are: Is this correct thinking? (Or am I perhaps overthinking things here?) What about an input model? This has only clamp curves. Is it OK to use a=20 different temperature ranges for input and output of the same device? Or a switch where the clamps and the series current are in separate=20 models? Clarifications on this matter will be highly appreciated. Kind Regards, Ren=E9 Voshol - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --=_alternative 00443270C125749F_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I have a question about the conditio= ns used to extract the data for the clamp and the pullup/down curves. I unders= tand that the temperature range given in the model should correspond to the min. and max. conditions of the device. Meaning that for the pullup/down curve of a CMOS device  you will have maximum performance with low temperature, and vice versa. But the clamp of this same the device will most likely be a diode, of some sorts, which will have the reverse temperat= ure behavior. Since both curves are substracted, you need to apply the same conditions when extracting the curves. In which case I use the pullup/down curve as reference.

My questions are:
  1. Is this correct thinking? = (Or am I perhaps overthinking things here?)
  2. What about an input model?= This has only clamp curves. Is it OK to use a different temperature ranges for input and output of the same device?
  3. Or a switch where the clam= ps and the series current are in separate models?

Clarifications on this matter will be highly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Ren=E9 Voshol
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --=_alternative 00443270C125749F_=-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:09:51 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Conditions for clamp and pullup/down tables This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F979.8F7298B8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rene, =20 You are raising very good questions, and your observation is correct. We were aware of this problem, but didn't concern ourselves too much because this clamping diode behavior is only effecting the overshooting signals. In general, designs with overshoot should not rely on the clamping diodes of the devices for various reasons, and because of that we shouldn't expect hair splitting accuracy from the simulations based on clamping diode behavior. =20 In addition to that, the parasitic clamps of MOSFET models in SPICE tools are quite often very inaccurate due to inadequate modeling techniques which adds another reason for not relying too much on the claming effects. =20 Also, more modern signaling schemes use terminations which means that the signals will not get into the active region of the clamping diodes in which case they can be neglected in the models. =20 In summary, even though your observations are correct, we didn't feel that this was an important deficiency in the IBIS specification and models. If you can show us an example which would justify to make corrections to this situation we could certainly address this issue. =20 Thanks, =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.o= rg] On Behalf Of Rene Voshol Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 7:25 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Conditions for clamp and pullup/down tables Hi,=20 I have a question about the conditions used to extract the data for the cla= mp and the pullup/down curves. I understand that the temperature range give= n in the model should correspond to the min. and max. conditions of the dev= ice. Meaning that for the pullup/down curve of a CMOS device you will have= maximum performance with low temperature, and vice versa. But the clamp of= this same the device will most likely be a diode, of some sorts, which wil= l have the reverse temperature behavior. Since both curves are substracted,= you need to apply the same conditions when extracting the curves. In which= case I use the pullup/down curve as reference.=20 My questions are:=20 1. Is this correct thinking? (Or am I perhaps overthinking things here?)=20 2. What about an input model? This has only clamp curves. Is it OK to use a= different temperature ranges for input and output of the same device?=20 3. Or a switch where the clamps and the series current are in separate mode= ls? Clarifications on this matter will be highly appreciated.=20 Kind Regards,=20 Ren=E9 Voshol - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is=20 believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F979.8F7298B8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rene,
 
You are raising very good questions, and your=20 observation
is correct.  We were aware of this problem,= but=20 didn't
concern ourselves too much because this clamping= =20 diode
behavior is only effecting the overshooting=20 signals.  In
general, designs with overshoot should not rely = on=20 the
clamping diodes of the devices for various reaso= ns,=20 and
because of that we shouldn't expect hair splitti= ng=20 accuracy
from the simulations based on clamping diode=20 behavior.
 
In addition to that, the parasitic clamps of MOS= FET=20 models
in SPICE tools are quite often very inaccurate d= ue=20 to
inadequate modeling techniques which adds anothe= r=20 reason
for not relying too much on the claming=20 effects.
 
Also, more modern signaling schemes use terminat= ions=20 which
means that the signals will not get into the act= ive=20 region
of the clamping diodes in which case they can be= =20 neglected
in the models.
 
In summary, even though your observations are co= rrect,=20 we
didn't feel that this was an important deficienc= y in=20 the
IBIS specification and models.  If you can = show us=20 an example
which would justify to make corrections to this= =20 situation
we could certainly address this=20 issue.
 
Thanks,
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<= /DIV>
From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org= =20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Rene=20 Voshol
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 7:25 AM
To:=20 ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Conditions for cl= amp=20 and pullup/down tables


Hi,

I have a question about the conditions used to e= xtract=20 the data for the clamp and the pullup/down curves. I understand that the=20 temperature range given in the model should correspond to the min. and max.= =20 conditions of the device. Meaning that for the pullup/down curve of a CMOS= =20 device  you will have maximum performance with low temperature, and vi= ce=20 versa. But the clamp of this same the device will most likely be a diode, o= f=20 some sorts, which will have the reverse temperature behavior. Since both cu= rves=20 are substracted, you need to apply the same conditions when extracting the= =20 curves. In which case I use the pullup/down curve as reference.=20

My questions are:
  1. Is this correct thinking? = (Or am I=20 perhaps overthinking things here?)=20
  2. What about an input model?= This has=20 only clamp curves. Is it OK to use a different temperature ranges for inp= ut=20 and output of the same device?=20
  3. Or a switch where the clam= ps and the=20 series current are in separate models?

Clarifications on this matter will be highly appreciated.= =20

Kind Regards,

Ren=E9 Voshol
--
This message has = been=20 scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F979.8F7298B8-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:23:57 -0700 From: Bob Ross Subject: [IBIS-Users] Asian IBIS Summit (China) First Announcement To All: The IBIS Open Forum is holding an Asian IBIS Summit Meeting in Shanghai, China, a major technology center on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 This is an early initial announcement for longer term travel planning. Several companies listed below are co-sponsoring this large event to be held at the Shanghai Mart. Like in previous years, We are planning for about 150 - 200 attendees including several IBIS experts from the USA. We encourage technical contributions from Asia. We expect a full agenda of relevant material. Note, we are also planning a Summit in Tokyo, Japan on November 14 to be announced later. You may want to consider this in you travel plans. Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (CHINA) FIRST CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AND PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/nov08a/announcement_chinese.pdf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( C H I N A ) Time/Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 8:00 AM to 5:30 PM Meeting starts at 9:00 AM Location: Shanghai Mart 2299 Yan An Road (West) Shanghai P. R. China, 200336 http://shanghaimart.kex168.com/English/aboutus/corporate.asp Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and exchange IBIS and interconnect model related information and ideas. Primary Sponsor: Huawei Technologies Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): Agilent Technologies, Ansoft Corporation, Cadence Design Systems, Intel Corporation, Mentor Graphics Corporation, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft), Sigrity, Synopsys, and ZTE Corporation. Cost: FREE, including refreshments and buffet lunch Vendors: Some vendors will have information tables outside the meeting room Contact us for details regarding sponsorship. BACKGROUND We have held three successful meetings in Shenzhen, Shanghai and Beijing. This year we are meeting again in Shanghai where many Chinese and foreign high technology companies have operations. Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and Chinese. So presenters can optionally deliver in Chinese as long as an English version of the material is available. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summits site, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. However, no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS and interconnect model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register using the information below (in English): Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Telephone: Comments: (Such as assistance for the travel requirements at the end) Send to BOTH: Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Lance Wang, IO Methology Inc. lwang@iometh.com SIGNUP DEADLINE: November 4, 2008 CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS and interconnect modeling experiences or issues. If we have to select presentations for the number of time slots available, we will give preferential consideration to presentations from Asia. Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Power Point or Acrobat Presentation Booklet: Available at the meeting for all attendees Presentation Deadline: October 13, 2008 to produce the presentation booklet for the meeting If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. Submitted presentations must be in English, although the delivery can be in a Chinese. Submissions from Asia are encouraged. Topics may include behavioral modeling of buffers, interconnects or other system components. AGENDA 8:15 - 9:00 Sign in, casual conversation, vendor tables 9:00 - 12:00 Presentations 12:00 - 13:30 Free buffet lunch, vendor tables 13:30 - 17:30 Presentations 17:30 - 18:30 Casual conversations, vendor tables The specific agenda is being developed. We expect nine or ten presentations covering a range of issues from existing customer experiences, existing clarifications and some of the future directions in IBIS to deal with technical advances. Several major IBIS Committee presentations from IBIS officers or active members are planned. Several presentations on IBIS applications and behavioral modeling issues, including interconnects and system components, are expected from co-sponsor companies and/or their customers. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels in all price ranges can be found through internet searches. Nearby hotels are shown in the following map: http://shanghaimart.kex168.com/English/ourservices/place.asp Comply with your travel rules, such as indicated in the link below to China and Shanghai. Work with your travel agent. Notify us as a sign-up comment if you need assistance. Visas, if needed, should fall in the visit/business category: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 18:10:30 +0530 From: "Muniswara Reddy Vorugu" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Usage of multiple V-T curves in IBIS This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8FBAF.706D0819 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,=20 If there are multiple V-T tables 1: Are all multiple tables used at a time?=20 We have two variables (kpu & kpd) and more than 2 equations, So We get either multiple or NO solution.=20 How is this situation handled? =20 2: If a particular pair of tables are used, What is the criterion on which the particular pair is chosen from multiple tables? Is this criterion simulator dependent, or there is a standard. =20 Thanks, Muniswar =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Sudarshan H N Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:34 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: [IBIS] Usage of V-T curves =20 Hi, Can somebody explain me the usage of V-T curves in IBIS simulations at the board level. While generating V-T curves we assume some resistive load (say 50ohm) and give the rising and falling waveforms. But the actual board might see the different RLC values . How does the tool interpolate or extrapolate these curves to get the exact waveforms at the driver output for the given load with just one table of V-T curves. ? Regards Sudarshan - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8FBAF.706D0819 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

If there are multiple V-T tables

  1: Are all multiple tables used at a time= ?

      We have two varia= bles (kpu & kpd) and more than 2 equations, So We get either multiple or NO = solution.

      How is this situa= tion handled?

 

  2: If a particular pair of tables are use= d,

      What is the crite= rion on which the particular pair is chosen from multiple tables?

      Is this criterion= simulator dependent, or there is a standard.

 

Thanks,

Muniswar

 

From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Sudarshan H N
Sent: Monday, August 04, 200= 8 1:34 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS] Usage of V-T curves

 

Hi,

Can somebody explain me the usage of V-T curves in IBIS simulations at the board level. While generating V-T curves we assume some resistive load (say 50ohm) and give the rising and falling waveforms. But the actual board might see the different RLC values . How does the tool interpolate or extrapolate these curves to get the exact waveforms at the driver output for the given = load with just one table of V-T curves. ?

Regards
Sudarshan


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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8FBAF.706D0819-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 07:16:49 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: [IBIS] Usage of multiple V-T curves in IBIS This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8FBBC.E4322C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Muniswar, =20 This could be handled several different ways, but not too many IBIS tool vendors have implemented support=20 for multiple V-t tables. Even if they do, they do not advertise how they do it because it is considered a secret sauce. You can check one idea Luca Giacotto played with in this presentation (pg. 15 onwards): =20 http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/summits/jun03b/muranyi1.pdf =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Muniswara Reddy Vorugu Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:41 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS] Usage of multiple V-T curves in IBIS Hi,=20 If there are multiple V-T tables 1: Are all multiple tables used at a time?=20 We have two variables (kpu & kpd) and more than 2 equations, So We get either multiple or NO solution.=20 How is this situation handled? =20 2: If a particular pair of tables are used, What is the criterion on which the particular pair is chosen from multiple tables? Is this criterion simulator dependent, or there is a standard. =20 Thanks, Muniswar =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Sudarshan H N Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:34 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda.org Subject: [IBIS] Usage of V-T curves =20 Hi, Can somebody explain me the usage of V-T curves in IBIS simulations at the board level. While generating V-T curves we assume some resistive load (say 50ohm) and give the rising and falling waveforms. But the actual board might see the different RLC values . How does the tool interpolate or extrapolate these curves to get the exact waveforms at the driver output for the given load with just one table of V-T curves. ? Regards Sudarshan - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8FBBC.E4322C90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Muniswar,
 
This could be handled several different ways, bu= t=20 not
too many IBIS tool vendors have implemented supp= ort=20
for multiple V-t tables.  Even if they do, = they do=20 not
advertise how they do it because it is considere= d=20 a
secret sauce.  You can check one idea Luca= =20 Giacotto
played with in this presentation (pg. 15=20 onwards):
 
http://ww= w.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/summits/jun03b/muranyi1.pdf
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Muniswara Reddy=20 Vorugu
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:41 AM
To:=20 ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS] Us= age=20 of multiple V-T curves in IBIS

Hi,=20

If there are multiple= V-T=20 tables

  1: Are all mul= tiple=20 tables used at a time?

   &nb= sp; =20 We have two variables (kpu & kpd) and more than 2 equations, So We get= =20 either multiple or NO solution.

   &nb= sp; =20 How is this situation handled?

 

  2: If a partic= ular=20 pair of tables are used,

   &nb= sp; =20 What is the criterion on which the particular pair is chosen from multiple= =20 tables?

   &nb= sp; =20 Is this criterion simulator dependent, or there is a=20 standard.

 

Thanks,

Muniswar

 

From:=20 owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Sudarshan H N
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:34= =20 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.or= g;=20 ibis@eda.org
Subject: [I= BIS]=20 Usage of V-T curves

 

Hi,

Can somebody explain me the usage of V= - -T=20 curves in IBIS simulations at the board level. While generating V-T curves = we=20 assume some resistive load (say 50ohm) and give the rising and falling=20 waveforms. But the actual board might see the different RLC values . How do= es=20 the tool interpolate or extrapolate these curves to get the exact waveforms= at=20 the driver output for the given load with just one table of V-T curves.=20 ?

Regards
Sudarshan


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This message has been scanned for viru= ses and=20
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
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--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8FBBC.E4322C90-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:33:26 +0200 From: Rene Voshol Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Conditions for clamp and pullup/down tables This is a multipart message in MIME format. - --=_alternative 002F028FC12574A3_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Arpad, Thank you for your explanation. It was not that I have a need for better modelling of the clamp. In fact,= =20 it was a customer who raised the question why the clamp curves were=20 crossing. They seem to be satisfied with the answer I gave them. But it=20 made me re-think the way I make IBIS models. Kind Regards, Ren=E9 Voshol "Muranyi, Arpad" =20 Sent by: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org 2008-08-08 07:09 PM To cc Subject RE: [IBIS-Users] Conditions for clamp and pullup/down tables Rene, =20 You are raising very good questions, and your observation is correct. We were aware of this problem, but didn't concern ourselves too much because this clamping diode behavior is only effecting the overshooting signals. In general, designs with overshoot should not rely on the clamping diodes of the devices for various reasons, and because of that we shouldn't expect hair splitting accuracy from the simulations based on clamping diode behavior. =20 In addition to that, the parasitic clamps of MOSFET models in SPICE tools are quite often very inaccurate due to inadequate modeling techniques which adds another reason for not relying too much on the claming effects. =20 Also, more modern signaling schemes use terminations which means that the signals will not get into the active region of the clamping diodes in which case they can be neglected in the models. =20 In summary, even though your observations are correct, we didn't feel that this was an important deficiency in the IBIS specification and models. If you can show us an example which would justify to make corrections to this situation we could certainly address this issue. =20 Thanks, =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Rene Voshol Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 7:25 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Conditions for clamp and pullup/down tables Hi,=20 I have a question about the conditions used to extract the data for the=20 clamp and the pullup/down curves. I understand that the temperature range= =20 given in the model should correspond to the min. and max. conditions of=20 the device. Meaning that for the pullup/down curve of a CMOS device you=20 will have maximum performance with low temperature, and vice versa. But=20 the clamp of this same the device will most likely be a diode, of some=20 sorts, which will have the reverse temperature behavior. Since both curves= =20 are substracted, you need to apply the same conditions when extracting the= =20 curves. In which case I use the pullup/down curve as reference.=20 My questions are:=20 1. Is this correct thinking? (Or am I perhaps overthinking things=20 here?)=20 2. What about an input model? This has only clamp curves. Is it OK to= =20 use a different temperature ranges for input and output of the same=20 device?=20 3. Or a switch where the clamps and the series current are in=20 separate models? Clarifications on this matter will be highly appreciated.=20 Kind Regards,=20 Ren=E9 Voshol - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner, and is=20 believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner, and is=20 believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --=_alternative 002F028FC12574A3_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Arpad,

Thank you for your explanation.
It was not that I have a need for be= tter modelling of the clamp. In fact, it was a customer who raised the question why the clamp curves were crossing. They seem to be satisfied with the answer I gave them. But it made me re-think the way I make IBIS models.

Kind Regards,

Ren=E9 Voshol







"Muranyi, Arpad" <Ar= pad_Muranyi@mentor.com>
Sent by:

owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org

2008-08-08 07:09 PM

To
<ibis-users@server.e= da.org>
cc
Subject
RE: [IBIS-Users] Condit= ions for clamp and pullup/down tables





Rene,
 
You are raising very good questions, and your observation
is correct.  We were aware of this problem, but didn't
concern ourselves too much because this clamping diode
behavior is only effecting the over= shooting signals.  In
general, designs with overshoot sho= uld not rely on the
clamping diodes of the devices for various reasons, and
because of that we shouldn't expect hair splitting accuracy
from the simulations based on clamp= ing diode behavior.
 
In addition to that, the parasitic clamps of MOSFET models
in SPICE tools are quite often very inaccurate due to
inadequate modeling techniques which adds another reason
for not relying too much on the cla= ming effects.
 
Also, more modern signaling schemes use terminations which
means that the signals will not get into the active region
of the clamping diodes in which case they can be neglected
in the models.
 
In summary, even though your observ= ations are correct, we
didn't feel that this was an import= ant deficiency in the
IBIS specification and models. &nbs= p;If you can show us an example
which would justify to make correct= ions to this situation
we could certainly address this iss= ue.
 
Thanks,
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda= .org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Rene Voshol=
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 7:25 AM
To: ibis-users@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Conditions for clamp and pullup/down tables

Hi,

I have a question about the conditions used to extract the data for the clamp and the pullup/down curves. I understand that the temperature range given in the model should correspond to the min. and max. conditions of the device. Meaning that for the pullup/down curve of a CMOS device  y= ou will have maximum performance with low temperature, and vice versa. But the clamp of this same the device will most likely be a diode, of some sorts, which will have the reverse temperature behavior. Since both curves are substracted, you need to apply the same conditions when extracting the curves. In which case I use the pullup/down curve as reference.<= font size=3D3>

My questions are:
1.        Is this correct thinking? (Or am I perhaps overthinking things here?)
2.        What about an input model? This has only clamp curves. Is it OK to use a differe= nt temperature ranges for input and output of the same device?
3.        Or a switch where the clamps and the series current are in separate models?

Clarifications on this matter will be highly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Ren=E9 Voshol
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - --=_alternative 002F028FC12574A3_=-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:09:43 -0600 From: "Mirmak, Michael" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) First Announcement The IBIS Open Forum will hold its third Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) Meeting on November 14 in Tokyo, Japan. This is an early announcement to aid in advance travel planning. JEITA (Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association) is the primary event sponsor with several companies, listed below, acting as co-sponsors. The event will held at JEITA headquarters in Tokyo. Several experts from outside Japan are expected to participate. We encourage technical contributions from Asia. We expect a full agenda of relevant material. Note that we are also holding a Summit in Shanghai, People's Republic of China on November 11. You may want to consider this in your travel plans. Michael Mirmak Intel Corporation Takeshi Watanabe NEC Electronics Corporation - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (JAPAN) FIRST CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AND PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( J A P A N ) Time/Date: Friday November 14, 2008, 8:30 AM to 4:00 PM Meeting starts at 9:00 AM Location: JEITA Headquarters (New Location) Chiyoda First Bldg. South Wing, 3-2-1 Nishi-Kanda, Chiyoda-ku Tokyo, 101-0065 JAPAN http://www.jeita.or.jp/english/about/location/index.htm Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Organizational Sponsors: Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) IBIS Open Forum Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): ATE Service Corporation (Sigrity) Cybernet Systems Others to be listed after confirmation Cost: FREE, including refreshments and lunch Contact us for details regarding sponsorship BACKGROUND This year we holding the third open Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) meeting. Major Japanese companies operate in Tokyo and are affiliated with JEITA and IBIS. Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts, foster information exchange and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and Japanese. Presenters are welcome to deliver the presentation in Japanese for the convenience of attendees so long as an English printed version of the material is available. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summit site and minutes of the meeting will be issued. However, no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS model development, EDA tool development, signal integrity simulation, platform and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Telephone: Send to BOTH: Bob ROSS, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Kazuyoshi SHOJI, Hitachi ULSI Systems kazuyoshi.shohji.aj@hitachi.com SIGNUP DEADLINE: November 7, 2008 Because of limited space, advance registration is required. CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. If we have to select presentations for the number of time slots available, we will give preferential consideration to presentations from Asia. Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Microsoft PowerPoint or Adobe PDF Presentation Copies: Available at the meeting for all attendees Presentation Deadline: November 7, 2008 to produce the presentation copies for the meeting If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. Submissions from Asia-based presenters are encouraged. AGENDA (Tentative) 8:30 Sign in Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) 9:00 Presentations 12:00 Free lunch 12:40 Presentations 16:00 End of Meeting 16:00 Open Discussion about EDA Model (JEITA-EIA/IBIS Meeting) Everyone is welcome 17:00 Welcome Party The specific agenda is being developed. We expect seven or eight presentations covering a range of issues from existing customer experiences, existing clarifications and some of the future directions in IBIS to deal with technical advances. Several major IBIS Committee presentations from IBIS officers or active members are planned. Several presentations on IBIS applications or modeling issues are expected from co-sponsor companies or their customers. Also, we will have sponsor booths this year. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels in all price ranges can be found through internet searches. JEITA suggests the Tokyo Dome Hotel as convenient accommodation. JEITA headquarters is located near several train stations (click image): http://www.jeita.or.jp/english/about/location/index.htm - ----------------------------------------------------------------- - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:37:18 +0530 From: Chetana Raghuwanshi Subject: [IBIS-Users] Different PMOS and NMOS driver impedence - --0__=EABBFE3ADFD3DCF38f9e8a93df938690918cEABBFE3ADFD3DCF3 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hello Experts, One of my IO cell has a buffer with different PMOS and NMOS impedences. PMOS impedence is approx 200 Ohms and that for NMOS is 96 Ohms. In this case what should be the value of Rfixture for calculating IV VT curves ? Would it be Rfixture1 for calculating pull down and falling waveforms and Rfixture2 for calculating pull up and rising waveforms ? If I do rise/pullup and fall/pulldown simulations with different Rfixture values, is it acceptable ? Best Regards Chetana - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --0__=EABBFE3ADFD3DCF38f9e8a93df938690918cEABBFE3ADFD3DCF3 Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline

Hello Experts,

One of my IO cell has a buffer with different PMOS and NMOS impedences.
PMOS impedence is approx 200 Ohms and that for NMOS is 96 Ohms.
In this case what should be the value of Rfixture for calculating IV VT curves ?
Would it be Rfixture1 for calculating pull down and falling waveforms and Rfixture2 for calculating pull up and rising waveforms ?
If I do rise/pullup and fall/pulldown simulations with different Rfixture values, is it acceptable ?

Best Regards
Chetana


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believed to be clean. - --0__=EABBFE3ADFD3DCF38f9e8a93df938690918cEABBFE3ADFD3DCF3-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:11:06 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: [IBIS] Different PMOS and NMOS driver impedence This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C90133.E2F3D039 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chetana, =20 Rfixture should be chosen according to the planned transmission line impedance that will load the buffer, nit the buffer's impedance. =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Chetana Raghuwanshi Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 8:07 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS] Different PMOS and NMOS driver impedence Hello Experts, One of my IO cell has a buffer with different PMOS and NMOS impedences. PMOS impedence is approx 200 Ohms and that for NMOS is 96 Ohms. In this case what should be the value of Rfixture for calculating IV VT curves ? Would it be Rfixture1 for calculating pull down and falling waveforms and Rfixture2 for calculating pull up and rising waveforms ? If I do rise/pullup and fall/pulldown simulations with different Rfixture values, is it acceptable ? Best Regards Chetana - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C90133.E2F3D039 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Chetana,
 
Rfixture should be chosen according to the
planned transmission line impedance that will
load the buffer, nit the buffer's impedance.
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Chetana=20 Raghuwanshi
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 8:07 AM
To:= =20 ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS]=20 Different PMOS and NMOS driver impedence

Hello Experts,

One of my IO cell has a buffer with different PMOS= and=20 NMOS impedences.
PMOS impedence is approx 200 Ohms and that for NMOS is = 96=20 Ohms.
In this case what should be the value of Rfixture for calculating = IV VT=20 curves ?
Would it be Rfixture1 for calculating pull down and falling=20 waveforms and Rfixture2 for calculating pull up and rising waveforms ?
I= f I=20 do rise/pullup and fall/pulldown simulations with different Rfixture values= , is=20 it acceptable ?

Best Regards
Chetana


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This messa= ge=20 has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.


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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C90133.E2F3D039-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:43:07 +0530 From: "Sudarshan H N" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Re: [IBIS] Different PMOS and NMOS driver impedence - ------=_Part_66635_1894512.1219065187779 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello Chetana, You can use any of the 2 values for Rfixture to generate Vt curves. There is no rule that , your Rfixture should match to the PMOS or NMOS driver resistance. But you should always use one value to generate the one set of rising and falling waveforms(experts, correct me if i am wrong). If you are seeing any errors with respect to IV and Vt curve mismatch , just simulate for more time so that it will reach the saturation. Regards Sudarshan On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Chetana Raghuwanshi < chetana.raghuwanshi@nxp.com> wrote: > Hello Experts, > > One of my IO cell has a buffer with different PMOS and NMOS impedences. > PMOS impedence is approx 200 Ohms and that for NMOS is 96 Ohms. > In this case what should be the value of Rfixture for calculating IV VT > curves ? > Would it be Rfixture1 for calculating pull down and falling waveforms and > Rfixture2 for calculating pull up and rising waveforms ? > If I do rise/pullup and fall/pulldown simulations with different Rfixture > values, is it acceptable ? > > Best Regards > Chetana > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by *MailScanner* , and is > believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_Part_66635_1894512.1219065187779 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Hello Chetana,

You can use any of the 2 values for Rfixture to generate Vt curves. There is no rule that , your Rfixture should match to the PMOS or NMOS driver resistance. But you should always use one value to generate the one set of rising and falling waveforms(experts, correct me if i am wrong). If you are seeing any errors with respect to IV and Vt curve mismatch , just simulate  for more time so that it will reach the saturation.

Regards
Sudarshan

On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Chetana Raghuwanshi <chetana.raghuwanshi@nxp.com> wrote:

Hello Experts,

One of my IO cell has a buffer with different PMOS and NMOS impedences.
PMOS impedence is approx 200 Ohms and that for NMOS is 96 Ohms.
In this case what should be the value of Rfixture for calculating IV VT curves ?
Would it be Rfixture1 for calculating pull down and falling waveforms and Rfixture2 for calculating pull up and rising waveforms ?
If I do rise/pullup and fall/pulldown simulations with different Rfixture values, is it acceptable ?

Best Regards
Chetana


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This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


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