From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #131 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Precedence: bulk ibis-users Wednesday, September 23 2009 Volume 01 : Number 131 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:23:18 -0400 From: "Andrew Ingraham" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Quetion about the power clamp ranges. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01CA1363.A29A6D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looking at your plots, and knowing that you are concerned about average lev= els, the first thing I would try is slowing down the clock, to give the wav= eforms time to stabilize. That would tell you something about whether the = problem is due to the transient response (or perhaps overclocking the model= beyond its intended capabilities), or something else. The IBIS spec says the power clamp should cover from Vcc to 2Vcc, but there= is nothing that says it must not go beyond that. The reason it says Vcc t= o 2Vcc and not more, is that most power clamps don't do anything below Vcc,= so the current data would be zero there, and it SHOULD make no difference = if those zeros are omitted from the tables. Check to see if your clamp cur= rent drops to zero near Vcc, or if it seemed truncated. But the most important thing, that everyone must do when creating IBIS file= s, is to make sure that all device currents are properly accounted for. Th= is means that not only is nothing left out, but also that nothing is counte= d twice. Never blindly create models without thinking and checking that ev= erything is there and that everything adds up. In the end, the only curren= ts that you ought to leave out, are the ones well beyond the range of norma= l operation (i.e., below -Vcc and above +2Vcc). If your device has a lot of leakage current, or continuous pulldown or pull= up current when the output is "inactive," then those currents go in the cla= mp tables. You need to decide whether and how much to put it in the gnd cl= amp or the power clamp tables. The same current should not go in both plac= es (which is why the gnd clamp normally ends at Vcc and the power clamp nor= mally begins there). Take a close look at the data you added in by extending your power clamp da= ta. Is it meaningful? Is it something already accounted for anywhere else= , such as the gnd clamp? If the data you added in were zeros, maybe what you need are more data poin= ts right at the knee of the clamp curve, to tell the simulator more about t= he shape of the curve. It might be extrapolating poorly based on too few d= ata points. Regards, Andy - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01CA1363.A29A6D40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Looking at your plots, and knowing that you are concerned about averag= e=20 levels, the first thing I would try is slowing down the clock, to give the= =20 waveforms time to stabilize.  That would tell you something about whet= her=20 the problem is due to the transient response (or perhaps overclocking = the=20 model beyond its intended capabilities), or something else.
 
The IBIS spec says the power clamp should cover from Vcc to 2Vcc, but = there=20 is nothing that says it must not go beyond that.  The reason it s= ays=20 Vcc to 2Vcc and not more, is that most power clamps don't do anything = below=20 Vcc, so the current data would be zero there, and it SHOULD = make=20 no difference if those zeros are omitted from the tables.  Check = to=20 see if your clamp current drops to zero near Vcc, or if it s= eemed=20 truncated.
 
But the most important thing, that everyone must do when creating IBIS= =20 files, is to make sure that all device currents are properly accounted= =20 for.  This means that not only is nothing left out, but also that= =20 nothing is counted twice.  Never blindly create models without thinkin= g and=20 checking that everything is there and that everything adds up.  In the= end,=20 the only currents that you ought to leave out, are the ones well= =20 beyond the range of normal operation (i.e., below -Vcc and above +2Vcc).
 
If your device has a lot of leakage current, or continuous pulldown or= =20 pullup current when the output is "inactive," then those currents go in the= =20 clamp tables.  You need to decide whether and how much to put it in th= e gnd=20 clamp or the power clamp tables.  The same current should not go in bo= th=20 places (which is why the gnd clamp normally ends at Vcc and the power clamp= =20 normally begins there).
 
Take a close look at the data you added in by extending your power cla= mp=20 data.  Is it meaningful?  Is it something already accounted for= =20 anywhere else, such as the gnd clamp?
 
If the data you added in were zeros, maybe what you need are more data= =20 points right at the knee of the clamp curve, to tell the simulator more abo= ut=20 the shape of the curve.  It might be extrapolating poorly based on too= few=20 data points.
 
Regards,
Andy
 
 

--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01CA1363.A29A6D40-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:27:41 +0300 From: "Kobi Pinhas" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Quetion about the power clamp ranges. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01CA1435.CBBD8D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to bother you again. But I am not sure that I understood all. Especially the next sentence: "But the most important thing, that everyone must do when creating IBIS files, is to make sure that all device currents are properly accounted for. This means that not only is nothing left out, but also that nothing is counted twice." I am using DDR buffer with internal termination of 50 ohm. So when the voltage range is between 0 to VCC, I do not have a zero current. Is that current should be treated as a leakage current? If the power clamp and gnd clamp are overlapped (in the range 0 - vcc). I will get the same current results for this range in the power and gnd clamp. And I will have double counting. Should I write the current results for this range only in one of the clamps (gnd or power), And in the second writing zeroes? Thanks. Kobi. - -----Original Message----- From: Lynne D. Green [mailto:lgreen22@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:25 AM To: ibis-users@eda; Kobi Pinhas Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Quetion about the power clamp ranges. The IBIS Quality Checklist strongly recommends both clamp tables cover - -Vcc to +2Vcc. Having several points between 0 and Vcc, even if they are all zero, could also help. Another recommendation is to have at least 10 (preferably more) points in the transition region of the V-t data table. This improves simulation accuracy. This is because the IBIS specification does not specify a method for INTERPOLATION (calculating intermediate points) or for EXTRAPOLATION beyond either end of a table. So different tools are free to interpolate/extrapolate differently. If points are placed closely in table regions where the slope is changing, the tool's choice of method has less effect on the simulation results. A quick graphical check of the model data is good for identifying these, as well as the double-counting Andrew mentioned. Regards, Lynne "IBIS training when you need it, where you need it." Dr. Lynne Green Green Streak Programs http://www.greenstreakprograms.com 425-788-0412 lgreen22@mindspring.com Andrew Ingraham wrote: > Looking at your plots, and knowing that you are concerned about > average levels, the first thing I would try is slowing down the clock, > to give the waveforms time to stabilize. That would tell you > something about whether the problem is due to the transient response > (or perhaps overclocking the model beyond its intended capabilities), > or something else. > > The IBIS spec says the power clamp should cover from Vcc to 2Vcc, but > there is nothing that says it must not go beyond that. The reason > it says Vcc to 2Vcc and not more, is that most power clamps don't do > anything below Vcc, so the current data would be zero there, and > it SHOULD make no difference if those zeros are omitted from the > tables. Check to see if your clamp current drops to zero near Vcc, or > if it seemed truncated. > > But the most important thing, that everyone must do when creating IBIS > files, is to make sure that all device currents are properly accounted > for . This means that not only is nothing left out, but also that > nothing is counted twice. Never blindly create models without > thinking and checking that everything is there and that everything > adds up. In the end, the only currents that you ought to leave out, > are the ones well beyond the range of normal operation (i.e., below > -Vcc and above +2Vcc). > > If your device has a lot of leakage current, or continuous pulldown or > pullup current when the output is "inactive," then those currents go > in the clamp tables. You need to decide whether and how much to put > it in the gnd clamp or the power clamp tables. The same current > should not go in both places (which is why the gnd clamp normally ends > at Vcc and the power clamp normally begins there). > > Take a close look at the data you added in by extending your power > clamp data. Is it meaningful? Is it something already accounted for > anywhere else, such as the gnd clamp? > > If the data you added in were zeros, maybe what you need are more data > points right at the knee of the clamp curve, to tell the simulator > more about the shape of the curve. It might be extrapolating poorly > based on too few data points. > > Regards, > Andy > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by *MailScanner* , and is > believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01CA1435.CBBD8D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sorry to bother you again.

 

But I am not sure that I understood all.

Especially the next sentence:

"But the most important thing, that everyone = must do when creating IBIS files, is to make sure that all device currents are properly accounted for.  This means that not only is nothing left = out, but also that nothing is counted twice."<= /p>

 

I am using DDR buffer with internal termination of 50 ohm.<= /font>

So when the voltage range is between 0 to VCC, I do not have a zero current.

Is that current should be treated as a leakage current?

 

If the power clamp and gnd clamp are overlapped (in the range 0 – vcc).<= o:p>

I will get the same current results for this range in the power and gnd clamp. And I will have double counting.

Should I write the current results for this range only in one of the clamps (gnd or power),

And in the second writing zeroes?

 

Thanks.

 

Kobi.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lynne D. Green [mailto:lgreen22@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:25 AM
To: ibis-users@eda; Kobi Pinhas
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Quetion about the power clamp ranges.<= /span>

 

The IBIS Quality Checklist strongly recommends both clamp tables cover= =

-Vcc to +2Vcc.  Having several points between 0 and Vcc, even if they

are all zero, could also help.

 

Another recommendation is to have at least 10 (preferably more) points

in the transition region of the V-t data table.  This improves<= span dir=3DRTL>

simulation accuracy.

 

This is because the IBIS specification does not specify a method for<= span dir=3DRTL>

INTERPOLATION (calculating intermediate points) or for EXTRAPOLATION

beyond either end of a table.  So different tools are free to

interpolate/extrapolate differently.  If points are placed closely in =

table regions where the slope is changing, the tool's choice of method

has less effect on the simulation results.

 

A quick graphical check of the model data is good for identifying these,

as well as the double-counting Andrew mentioned.

 

Regards,

Lynne

 

 

"IBIS training when you need it, where you need it."

 

Dr. Lynne Green

Green Streak Programs

http://www.greenstreakprograms.com

425-788-0412

lgreen22@mindspring.com

 

 

 

Andrew Ingraham wrote:

> Looking at your plots, and knowing that you are concern= ed about =

> average levels, the first thing I would try is slowing = down the clock,

> to give the waveforms time to stabilize.  That wou= ld tell you

> something about whether the problem is due to the trans= ient response

> (or perhaps overclocking the model beyond its intended capabilities),

> or something else.

> 

> The IBIS spec says the power clamp should cover from Vc= c to 2Vcc, but

> there is nothing that says it must not go beyond that.  The reason

> it says Vcc to 2Vcc and not more, is that most power cl= amps don't do

> anything below Vcc, so the current data would be zero there, and

> it SHOULD make no difference if those zeros are omitted from the

> tables.  Check to see if your clamp current drops = to zero near Vcc, or

> if it seemed truncated.

> 

> But the most important thing, that everyone must do when creating IBIS=

> files, is to make sure that all device currents are properly accounted

> for .  This means that not only is nothing left ou= t, but also that=

> nothing is counted twice.  Never blindly create mo= dels without

> thinking and checking that everything is there and that everything

> adds up.  In the end, the only currents that you o= ught to leave out,

> are the ones well beyond the range of normal operation (i.e., below<= /span>

> -Vcc and above +2Vcc).

> 

> If your device has a lot of leakage current, or continu= ous pulldown or

> pullup current when the output is "inactive," then those currents go

> in the clamp tables.  You need to decide whether a= nd how much to put

> it in the gnd clamp or the power clamp tables.  The same current<= /span>

> should not go in both places (which is why the gnd clamp normally ends=

> at Vcc and the power clamp normally begins there= ).

> 

> Take a close look at the data you added in by extending your power

> clamp data.  Is it meaningful?  Is it somethi= ng already accounted for

> anywhere else, such as the gnd clamp?

> 

> If the data you added in were zeros, maybe what you need are more data=

> points right at the knee of the clamp curve, to tell the simulator

> more about the shape of the curve.  It might be extrapolating poorly

> based on too few data points.

> 

> Regards,

> Andy=

> 

> 

> 

> --

> This message has been scanned for viruses and

> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is

> believed to be clean.


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01CA1435.CBBD8D60-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:58:04 -0700 From: Bob Ross Subject: [IBIS-Users] Asian IBIS Summit (China) First Announcement To All: The IBIS Open Forum is holding an Asian IBIS Summit Meeting in Shanghai, China, a major technology center on Tuesday, November 4, 2009 This is an early initial announcement for longer term travel planning. Several companies listed below are co-sponsoring this large event to be held at the Four Points by Sheraton, Shanghai in the Pudong District. Like in previous years, We are planning for about 150 attendees including several IBIS experts from the USA. We encourage technical contributions from Asia. We expect a full agenda of relevant material. We are also planning a Summit in Tokyo, Japan on November 6 to be announced later. You may want to consider this in you travel plans. Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (CHINA) FIRST CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AND PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/nov09a/announcement_chinese.pdf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( C H I N A ) Time/Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2009, 8:00 AM to 5:30 PM Meeting starts at 9:00 AM Location: Four Points by Sheraton, Shanghai, Pudong 2111 Pudong Nan Road Shanghai 200127 P. R. China http://www.starwoodhotels.com/fourpoints/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1716 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and exchange IBIS and interconnect model related information and ideas. Primary Sponsor: Huawei Technologies Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): Agilent Technologies, Ansoft Corporation, Cadence Design Systems, Intel Corporation, Mentor Graphics Corporation, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft), Sigrity, Synopsys, and ZTE Corporation. Cost: FREE, including refreshments and buffet lunch Vendors: Some vendors will have information tables outside the meeting room Contact us for details regarding sponsorship. BACKGROUND We have held four successful meetings in Shenzhen, Shanghai and Beijing. This year we are meeting again in Shanghai where many Chinese and foreign high technology companies have operations. These events are archived along with all our other Summits: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/ Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and Chinese. So presenters can optionally deliver in Chinese as long as an English version of the material is available. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summits site, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. However, no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS and interconnect model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register using the information below (in English): Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Telephone: Comments: (Such as assistance for the travel requirements at the end) Send to BOTH: Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Lance Wang, IO Methology Inc. lwang@iometh.com SIGNUP DEADLINE: October 28, 2009 CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS and interconnect modeling experiences or issues. If we have to select presentations for the number of time slots available, we will give preferential consideration to presentations from Asia. Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Power Point or Acrobat Presentation Booklet: Available at the meeting for all attendees Presentation Deadline: October 7, 2009 to produce the presentation booklet for the meeting If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. Submitted presentations must be in English, although the delivery can be in Mandarin. Submissions from Asia are encouraged along with other submissions world-wide. Topics may include behavioral modeling of buffers, interconnects or other system components. AGENDA 8:15 - 9:00 Vendor table setup and tables 8:30 - 9:00 Sign in 9:00 - 12:00 Presentations 12:00 - 13:30 Free buffet lunch, vendor tables 13:30 - 17:30 Presentations 17:30 - 18:30 Casual conversations, vendor tables The specific agenda is being developed. We expect nine or ten presentations covering a range of issues from existing customer experiences, existing clarifications and some of the future directions in IBIS to deal with technical advances. Several major IBIS Committee presentations from IBIS officers or active members are planned. Several presentations on IBIS applications and behavioral modeling issues, including interconnects and system components, are expected from co-sponsor companies and/or their customers. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels in all price ranges can be found through internet searches. Comply with your travel rules, such as indicated in the link below to China and Shanghai. Work with your travel agent. Notify us as a sign-up comment if you need assistance. Visas, if needed, should fall in the visit/business category: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:32:12 -0400 From: "Andrew Ingraham" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] Quetion about the power clamp ranges. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01D4_01CA15D1.23ED8FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I am using DDR buffer with internal termination of 50 ohm. > So when the voltage range is between 0 to VCC, I do not have a zero curre= nt. > Is that current should be treated as a leakage current?=20 It might be actual leakage current or terminator (pullup/pulldown) current = or something else. =20 > If the power clamp and gnd clamp are overlapped (in the range 0 - vcc). > I will get the same current results for this range in the power and gnd c= lamp. And I will have double counting. > Should I write the current results for this range only in one of the clam= ps (gnd or power), > And in the second writing zeroes? This is a little trickier, and I may not be the best person to answer it. = But here is how I see it. You need to decide which table(s) to put that current into. Where the curr= ent doesn't change with Vcc, then it should go in the Gnd clamp table. Whe= re the current curve tracks with Vcc, it should go in the Power clamp table= . That is mainly how to decide. The simulator takes the data from the Pow= er clamp table and offsets them by the power supply voltage, which has some= min/typ/max range. When you have a device with very little current between 0 and Vcc, it's eas= y to truncate the currents in that broad range where they are near zero, an= d assign the lower part of the current curve to the gnd clamp and the upper= part to power clamp. In your case you may need to do some "fudging" to ma= ke a smooth transition between one table and the other, so that when the tw= o clamp curves are added together, with min/typ/max Vcc, you don't end up w= ith gaps or overlapping areas that have discontinuities. If you know something about the inner workings of your device, enough to sa= y that this portion of the current is due to a pullup device to Vcc but tha= t portion of the current is going through some sort of device to Gnd, then = you can separate those portions out from the total current and assign each = to the corresponding clamp tables ... in such a way that the total adds up = to the total device current. I may not be the best at describing this. Hopefully you get the idea. Andy - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_01D4_01CA15D1.23ED8FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> I am usin= g DDR=20 buffer with internal termination of 50 ohm.

> So when t= he=20 voltage range is between 0 to VCC, I do not have a zero=20 current.

> Is that c= urrent=20 should be treated as a leakage current?

 

It might be ac= tual=20 leakage current or terminator (pullup/pulldown) current or something=20 else.

&nbs= p;

<= o:p>

> If the po= wer clamp=20 and gnd clamp are overlapped (in the range 0 =96=20 vcc).

> I will ge= t the=20 same current results for this range in the power and gnd clamp. And I will = have=20 double counting.

> Should I = write the=20 current results for this range only in one of the clamps (gnd or=20 power),

> And in th= e second=20 writing zeroes?

 

This is a litt= le=20 trickier, and I may not be the best person to answer it.  But her= e is=20 how I see it.

 

You need to de= cide=20 which table(s) to put that current into.  Where the current doesn= 't=20 change with Vcc, then it should go in the Gnd clamp table.  Where= the=20 current curve tracks with Vcc, it should go in the Power clamp table. = That=20 is mainly how to decide.  The simulator takes the data from the P= ower=20 clamp table and offsets them by the power supply voltage, which has some=20 min/typ/max range.

 

When you have = a device=20 with very little current between 0 and Vcc, it's easy to truncate= the=20 currents in that broad range where they are near zero, and assign the = lower=20 part of the current curve to the gnd clamp and the upper part&nbs= p;to=20 power clamp.  In your case you may need to do some "fudging" to make&n= bsp;a=20 smooth transition between one table and the other, so that when the two=20 clamp curves are added together, with min/typ/max Vcc, you don't end u= p=20 with gaps or overlapping areas that have discontinuities.

 

If you know so= mething=20 about the inner workings of your device, enough to say that this portion of= the=20 current is due to a pullup device to Vcc but that portion of the current=20 is going through some sort of device to Gnd, then you can=20 separate those portions out from the total current and assign each to = the=20 corresponding clamp tables ... in such a way that the total adds up to the = total=20 device current.

 

I may not be t= he best=20 at describing this.  Hopefully you get the idea.

 

Andy

 

 


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_01D4_01CA15D1.23ED8FC0-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:20:43 -0700 From: Bob Ross Subject: [IBIS-Users] Asian IBIS Summit (China) Second Announcement To All: The IBIS Open Forum is holding an Asian IBIS Summit Meeting in Shanghai, China, a major technology center on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 (This is a correction from Tuesday mentioned in the previous announcement.) Several companies listed below are co-sponsoring this large event to be held at the Four Points by Sheraton, Shanghai in the Pudong District. Like in previous years, We are planning for about 150 attendees including several IBIS experts from the USA. We encourage technical contributions from Asia. We expect a full agenda of relevant material. We are also planning a Summit in Tokyo, Japan on November 6 to be announced later. You may want to consider this in you travel plans. Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (CHINA) SECOND CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AND PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/nov09a/announcement_chinese.pdf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( C H I N A ) Time/Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 8:00 AM to 5:30 PM Meeting starts at 9:00 AM Location: Four Points by Sheraton, Shanghai, Pudong 2111 Pudong Nan Road Shanghai 200127 P. R. China http://www.starwoodhotels.com/fourpoints/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1716 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and exchange IBIS and interconnect model related information and ideas. Primary Sponsor: Huawei Technologies Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): Agilent Technologies, Ansoft Corporation, Cadence Design Systems, Cybernet Systems Intel Corporation, Mentor Graphics Corporation, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft), Sigrity, Synopsys, and ZTE Corporation. Cost: FREE, including refreshments and buffet lunch Vendors: Some vendors will have information tables outside the meeting room Contact us for details regarding sponsorship. BACKGROUND We have held four successful meetings in Shenzhen, Shanghai and Beijing. This year we are meeting again in Shanghai where many Chinese and foreign high technology companies have operations. These events are archived along with all our other Summits: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/ Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and Chinese. So presenters can optionally deliver in Chinese as long as an English version of the material is available. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summits site, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. However, no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS and interconnect model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register using the information below (in English): Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Telephone: Comments: (Such as assistance for the travel requirements at the end) Send to BOTH: Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Lance Wang, IO Methology Inc. lwang@iometh.com SIGNUP DEADLINE: October 28, 2009 CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS and interconnect modeling experiences or issues. If we have to select presentations for the number of time slots available, we will give preferential consideration to presentations from Asia. Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Power Point or Acrobat Presentation Booklet: Available at the meeting for all attendees Presentation Deadline: October 7, 2009 to produce the presentation booklet for the meeting If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. Submitted presentations must be in English, although the delivery can be in Mandarin. Submissions from Asia are encouraged along with other submissions world-wide. Topics may include behavioral modeling of buffers, interconnects or other system components. AGENDA 8:15 - 9:00 Vendor table setup and tables 8:30 - 9:00 Sign in 9:00 - 12:00 Presentations 12:00 - 13:30 Free buffet lunch, vendor tables 13:30 - 17:30 Presentations 17:30 - 18:30 Casual conversations, vendor tables The specific agenda is being developed. We expect nine or ten presentations covering a range of issues from existing customer experiences, existing clarifications and some of the future directions in IBIS to deal with technical advances. Several major IBIS Committee presentations from IBIS officers or active members are planned. Several presentations on IBIS applications and behavioral modeling issues, including interconnects and system components, are expected from co-sponsor companies and/or their customers. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels in all price ranges can be found through internet searches. Comply with your travel rules, such as indicated in the link below to China and Shanghai. Work with your travel agent. Notify us as a sign-up comment if you need assistance. Visas, if needed, should fall in the visit/business category: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 11:37:16 -0700 From: Bob Ross Subject: [IBIS-Users] Asian IBIS Summit (China) Third Announcement To All: The IBIS Open Forum is holding an Asian IBIS Summit Meeting in Shanghai, China, a major technology center on Wednesday, November 4, 2009. Several companies listed below are co-sponsoring this large event to be held at the Four Points by Sheraton, Shanghai in the Pudong District. Like in previous years, We are planning for about 150 attendees including several IBIS experts from the USA. We encourage technical contributions from Asia. We expect a full agenda of relevant material. We are also planning a Summit in Tokyo, Japan on November 6 to be announced later. You may want to consider this in you travel plans. Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (CHINA) THIRD CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AND PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/nov09a/announcement_chinese.pdf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( C H I N A ) Time/Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 8:00 AM to 5:30 PM Meeting starts at 9:00 AM Location: Four Points by Sheraton, Shanghai, Pudong 2111 Pudong Nan Road Shanghai 200127 P. R. China http://www.starwoodhotels.com/fourpoints/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1716 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and exchange IBIS and interconnect model related information and ideas. Primary Sponsor: Huawei Technologies Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): Agilent Technologies, Ansoft Corporation, Cadence Design Systems, Cybernet Systems Intel Corporation, Mentor Graphics Corporation, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft), Sigrity, Synopsys, and ZTE Corporation. Cost: FREE, including refreshments and buffet lunch Vendors: Some vendors will have information tables outside the meeting room Contact us for details regarding sponsorship. BACKGROUND We have held four successful meetings in Shenzhen, Shanghai and Beijing. This year we are meeting again in Shanghai where many Chinese and foreign high technology companies have operations. These events are archived along with all our other Summits: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/ Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and Chinese. So presenters can optionally deliver in Chinese as long as an English version of the material is available. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summits site, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. However, no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS and interconnect model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register using the information below (in English): Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Telephone: Comments: (Such as assistance for the travel requirements at the end) Send to BOTH: Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Lance Wang, IO Methology Inc. lwang@iometh.com SIGNUP DEADLINE: October 28, 2009 CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS and interconnect modeling experiences or issues. If we have to select presentations for the number of time slots available, we will give preferential consideration to presentations from Asia. Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Power Point or Acrobat Presentation Booklet: Available at the meeting for all attendees Presentation Deadline: October 7, 2009 to produce the presentation booklet for the meeting If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. Submitted presentations must be in English, although the delivery can be in Mandarin. Submissions from Asia are encouraged along with other submissions world-wide. Topics may include behavioral modeling of buffers, interconnects or other system components. AGENDA 8:15 - 9:00 Vendor table setup and tables 8:30 - 9:00 Sign in 9:00 - 12:00 Presentations 12:00 - 13:30 Free buffet lunch, vendor tables 13:30 - 17:30 Presentations 17:30 - 18:30 Casual conversations, vendor tables The specific agenda is being developed. We expect nine or ten presentations covering a range of issues from existing customer experiences, existing clarifications and some of the future directions in IBIS to deal with technical advances. Several major IBIS Committee presentations from IBIS officers or active members are planned. Several presentations on IBIS applications and behavioral modeling issues, including interconnects and system components, are expected from co-sponsor companies and/or their customers. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels in all price ranges can be found through internet searches. Comply with your travel rules, such as indicated in the link below to China and Shanghai. Work with your travel agent. Notify us as a sign-up comment if you need assistance. Visas, if needed, should fall in the visit/business category: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:15:29 -0700 From: Bob Ross Subject: [IBIS-Users] Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) First Announcement To All: The IBIS Open Forum will hold its fourth Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) Meeting on November 6 in Tokyo, Japan. This year we are starting Friday afternoon, but still expect a full program. JEITA (Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association) is the primary event sponsor with several companies, to be listed below, acting as co-sponsors. The event will held at JEITA headquarters in Tokyo. Several experts from outside of Japan are expected to participate. We encourage technical contributions from Asia. We expect a full agenda of relevant material. Note that we are also holding a Summit in Shanghai, People's Republic of China on November 4. You may want to consider this in your travel plans. Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group Takeshi Watanabe NEC Electronics Corporation - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (JAPAN) FIRST CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AND PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( J A P A N ) Time/Date: Friday November 6, 2009, 13:00 to 18:00 Meeting starts at 13:30 Location: JEITA Headquarters (new location since 2008) Chiyoda First Bldg. South Wing, 3-2-1 Nishi-Kanda, Chiyoda-ku Tokyo, 101-0065 JAPAN http://www.jeita.or.jp/english/about/location/index.htm Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Organizational Sponsors: Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) IBIS Open Forum Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): To be listed after confirmation Cost: FREE, including refreshments Contact us for details regarding sponsorship BACKGROUND This year we holding the fourth open Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) meeting. Major Japanese companies operate in Tokyo and are affiliated with JEITA and IBIS. Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts, foster information exchange and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and Japanese. Presenters are welcome to deliver the presentation in Japanese for the convenience of attendees so long as an English printed version of the material is available. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summit site and minutes of the meeting will be issued. However, no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS model development, EDA tool development, signal integrity simulation, platform and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Telephone: Send to BOTH: Bob ROSS, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Kazuyoshi SHOJI, Hitachi ULSI Systems kazuyoshi.shohji.aj@hitachi.com SIGNUP DEADLINE: October 30, 2009 Because of limited space, advance registration is required. CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. If we have to select presentations for the number of time slots available, we will give preferential consideration to presentations from Asia. Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Microsoft PowerPoint or Adobe PDF Presentation Copies: Available at the meeting for all attendees Presentation Deadline: October 30, 2009 to produce the presentation copies for the meeting If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. Submissions from Asia-based presenters are encouraged. AGENDA (Tentative) 13:00 Sign in Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) 13:30 Presentations 15:30 Refreshments and Vendor Tables 16:00 Presentations 18:00 End of Meeting The specific agenda is being developed. We expect seven or eight presentations covering a range of issues from existing customer experiences, existing clarifications and some of the future directions in IBIS to deal with technical advances. Several major IBIS Committee presentations from IBIS officers or active members are planned. Several presentations on IBIS applications or modeling issues are expected from co-sponsor companies or their customers. Also, we will have sponsor booths this year. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels in all price ranges can be found through internet searches. JEITA suggests the Tokyo Dome Hotel as convenient accommodation. JEITA headquarters is located near several train stations (click image): http://www.jeita.or.jp/english/about/location/index.htm - ----------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:47:14 +0530 From: Raghavendra M Subject: [IBIS-Users] differential receiver ibis model Hi, I have a fully differential receiver in a chip, am trying to make an ibis model for this receiver Can you describe the method how to generate an ibis v3 model for the differential receiver I read the ibis cookbook and it says that for a differential buffer with positive and negative inputs, one input should be swept keeping the other input constant(negative) and record the currents into both inputs. Now change the constant input to new value and sweep the positive input and record the currents. This process should be continued as the negative input is swept in steps through the same range as positive input. From the current recorded we have to separate common mode and differential mode currents. But my question is where should we keep this common mode and differential mode currents in the ibis file? Actually for receiver, only clamp data should be kept in ibis file, so in [Power clamp] data where should we keep common mode current and differential mode current Should i use series model for my differential receiver? Should we place these characteristics in the model series? Is there any tool to generate an ibis model for differential receiver directly? Thanks & Regards Raghavendra M - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:26:41 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] differential receiver ibis model Raghavendra, The common mode current goes into the normal [Model]'s I-V tables, and the differential current goes into the series model that is placed between the two [Model]-s. You can further separate the clamp currents from the PU and PD I-V curves in the [Model] by redoing the same measurements in a 3-stated mode. (But don't forget to put the difference of the clamp and driven I-V curves into the PU and PD tables, instead of the total current to avoid double counting). I am not aware of a tool that can do all this in an automated way. Arpad ======================================================= - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Raghavendra M Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 12:17 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] differential receiver ibis model Hi, I have a fully differential receiver in a chip, am trying to make an ibis model for this receiver Can you describe the method how to generate an ibis v3 model for the differential receiver I read the ibis cookbook and it says that for a differential buffer with positive and negative inputs, one input should be swept keeping the other input constant(negative) and record the currents into both inputs. Now change the constant input to new value and sweep the positive input and record the currents. This process should be continued as the negative input is swept in steps through the same range as positive input. From the current recorded we have to separate common mode and differential mode currents. But my question is where should we keep this common mode and differential mode currents in the ibis file? Actually for receiver, only clamp data should be kept in ibis file, so in [Power clamp] data where should we keep common mode current and differential mode current Should i use series model for my differential receiver? Should we place these characteristics in the model series? Is there any tool to generate an ibis model for differential receiver directly? Thanks & Regards Raghavendra M - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:29:41 +0530 From: Raghavendra M Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] differential receiver ibis model Hi Muranyi Arpad, Thank you very much for your reply. Is the sweep voltage ranges for differential buffer same as normal 3-state buffer?(i.e., -VDD to 2*VDD or 0 to VDD). If my suplly voltage is 1.8V, then sweep range is -1.8 to 3.6 or its different. (sweep voltage range is voltage range of the positive and negative terminals of the fully differential buffer) Thanks & Regards Raghavendra M Muranyi, Arpad wrote: > Raghavendra, > > The common mode current goes into the normal [Model]'s > I-V tables, and the differential current goes into the > series model that is placed between the two [Model]-s. > You can further separate the clamp currents from the > PU and PD I-V curves in the [Model] by redoing the > same measurements in a 3-stated mode. (But don't > forget to put the difference of the clamp and driven > I-V curves into the PU and PD tables, instead of the > total current to avoid double counting). > > I am not aware of a tool that can do all this in > an automated way. > > Arpad > ======================================================= > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org > [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Raghavendra M > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 12:17 AM > To: ibis-users@server.eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] differential receiver ibis model > > Hi, > > I have a fully differential receiver in a chip, am trying to make an > ibis model for this receiver > Can you describe the method how to generate an ibis v3 model for the > differential receiver > I read the ibis cookbook and it says that for a differential buffer with > > positive and negative inputs, > one input should be swept keeping the other input constant(negative) and > > record the currents into both inputs. > Now change the constant input to new value and sweep the positive input > and record the currents. > This process should be continued as the negative input is swept in steps > > through the same range as positive input. > From the current recorded we have to separate common mode and > differential mode currents. > But my question is where should we keep this common mode and > differential mode currents in the ibis file? > Actually for receiver, only clamp data should be kept in ibis file, so > in [Power clamp] data where should we keep > common mode current and differential mode current > > Should i use series model for my differential receiver? > Should we place these characteristics in the model series? > Is there any tool to generate an ibis model for differential receiver > directly? > > Thanks & Regards > Raghavendra M > > > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:44:35 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] differential receiver ibis model I would suggest to do the same sweep range in order to be able to do the subtraction correctly (-Vcc to 2*Vcc). However, you may have difficulty to get the simulation to converge at the ends of the range, especially if you want to start there. In order to help that, I usually start at 0 volt or at Vcc (depending on whether I do my sweep GND or Vcc relative), then go to the end of the sweep range, and then do the sweep. The first portion of the data that contains the results of going from 0 or Vcc to the end of the sweep range can be discarded. Arpad ========================================================= - -----Original Message----- From: Raghavendra M [mailto:mraghav@pulsecoresemi.com] Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:00 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad Cc: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] differential receiver ibis model Hi Muranyi Arpad, Thank you very much for your reply. Is the sweep voltage ranges for differential buffer same as normal 3-state buffer?(i.e., -VDD to 2*VDD or 0 to VDD). If my suplly voltage is 1.8V, then sweep range is -1.8 to 3.6 or its different. (sweep voltage range is voltage range of the positive and negative terminals of the fully differential buffer) Thanks & Regards Raghavendra M Muranyi, Arpad wrote: > Raghavendra, > > The common mode current goes into the normal [Model]'s > I-V tables, and the differential current goes into the > series model that is placed between the two [Model]-s. > You can further separate the clamp currents from the > PU and PD I-V curves in the [Model] by redoing the > same measurements in a 3-stated mode. (But don't > forget to put the difference of the clamp and driven > I-V curves into the PU and PD tables, instead of the > total current to avoid double counting). > > I am not aware of a tool that can do all this in > an automated way. > > Arpad > ======================================================= > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org > [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Raghavendra M > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 12:17 AM > To: ibis-users@server.eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] differential receiver ibis model > > Hi, > > I have a fully differential receiver in a chip, am trying to make an > ibis model for this receiver > Can you describe the method how to generate an ibis v3 model for the > differential receiver > I read the ibis cookbook and it says that for a differential buffer with > > positive and negative inputs, > one input should be swept keeping the other input constant(negative) and > > record the currents into both inputs. > Now change the constant input to new value and sweep the positive input > and record the currents. > This process should be continued as the negative input is swept in steps > > through the same range as positive input. > From the current recorded we have to separate common mode and > differential mode currents. > But my question is where should we keep this common mode and > differential mode currents in the ibis file? > Actually for receiver, only clamp data should be kept in ibis file, so > in [Power clamp] data where should we keep > common mode current and differential mode current > > Should i use series model for my differential receiver? > Should we place these characteristics in the model series? > Is there any tool to generate an ibis model for differential receiver > directly? > > Thanks & Regards > Raghavendra M > > > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:53:21 -0400 From: "Lance Wang" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] differential receiver ibis model Hi, Raghavendra, FYI. You can use another method for fully differential pair driver/receiver IBIS modeling. The idea is to focus on the pin pair of the differential model and embedded the current between the pins into native IBIS I-V curves. This method brings easy to model, accurate and almost no limits for the all the types of differential pair buffers (true, half and pseudo, symmetrical or not, etc.). And it is fully compatible with all IBIS simulators. (it only uses native IBIS curves - pullup, pulldown, power clamp and ground clamps) It has been implemented into our modeling tool and it is used by the industry professionals now. The feedback is very positive so far. I have a paper accepted by EMC Compo 2009 in Nov, 2009. (you will need to wait for few more months) and planned to give a presentation in DesignCon 2010 about it. You can send me private emails about this method and tools for more details. Hope this helps, Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. www.iometh.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Raghavendra M Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:17 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] differential receiver ibis model Hi, I have a fully differential receiver in a chip, am trying to make an ibis model for this receiver Can you describe the method how to generate an ibis v3 model for the differential receiver I read the ibis cookbook and it says that for a differential buffer with positive and negative inputs, one input should be swept keeping the other input constant(negative) and record the currents into both inputs. Now change the constant input to new value and sweep the positive input and record the currents. This process should be continued as the negative input is swept in steps through the same range as positive input. From the current recorded we have to separate common mode and differential mode currents. But my question is where should we keep this common mode and differential mode currents in the ibis file? Actually for receiver, only clamp data should be kept in ibis file, so in [Power clamp] data where should we keep common mode current and differential mode current Should i use series model for my differential receiver? Should we place these characteristics in the model series? Is there any tool to generate an ibis model for differential receiver directly? Thanks & Regards Raghavendra M - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:56:44 +0530 From: Edward Rose Subject: [IBIS-Users] Usage of [Series Current] - --00504502b4683c2ba00473871af9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello Experts, I am trying to use [Series Current] keyword instead of [R series] in a Series model as given below. |********************************************************************** [Model] SER_RES Model_type Series Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-High C_comp 0pF 0pF 0pF | | typ min max [Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V | | variable R(typ) R(min) R(max) | |[R Series] 100ohm NA NA | [End] |********************************************************************** | [Model] SER_CURR Model_type Series Polarity Non-Inverting |Enable Active-High C_comp 0pF 0pF 0pF | | typ min max [Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V | [Series Current] | Voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) 0.00V 0.0A NA NA 0.10V -1.0mA NA NA 0.20V -2.0mA NA NA 0.30V -3.0mA NA NA 0.40V -4.0mA NA NA 0.50V -5.0mA NA NA 0.60V -6.0mA NA NA 0.70V -7.0mA NA NA 0.80V -8.0mA NA NA 0.90V -9.0mA NA NA 1.00V -10.0mA NA NA 1.10V -11.0mA NA NA 1.20V -12.0mA NA NA | [End] |***************************************************** According to understanding from IBIS specification document, both above given models should be identical. But, during simulation I am getting different results. Series model with only [R series] is giving desirable result while model with only [Series current] giving totally different results Am I doing something wrong or there is some problem with my simulator??? Thanks in advance Edward - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --00504502b4683c2ba00473871af9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Experts,
=A0
I am trying to use [Series Current] keyword instead of [R series] in a= Series model as given below.
=A0
=A0
|*********************************************************************= *
[Model]=A0 SER_RES
Model_type=A0 Series
Polarity=A0 Non-Invertin= g
Enable=A0 Active-High
C_comp=A0 0pF=A0 0pF=A0 0pF
|
|=A0 typ= =A0 min=A0 max
[Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V
|
| variable R(typ= ) R(min) R(max)
|
|[R Series] 100ohm=A0 NA=A0 NA
|
[End]
|*********************************************************************= *
|
[Model]=A0 SER_CURR
Model_type=A0 Series
Polarity=A0 Non-Inverting
|Enable=A0 Active= - -High
C_comp=A0 0pF=A0 0pF=A0 0pF
|
|=A0 typ=A0 min=A0 max
[Vol= tage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V
|
[Series Current]
| Voltage I(typ)= =A0=A0=A0 I(min)=A0=A0=A0 I(max)
=A0=A0 0.00V=A0=A0 0.0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 NA=A0 NA
=A0=A0 0.10V=A0 -1.0mA= =A0=A0 NA=A0 NA
=A0=A0 0.20V=A0 -2.0mA=A0=A0 NA=A0 NA
=A0=A0 0.30V=A0= -3.0mA=A0=A0 NA=A0 NA
=A0=A0 0.40V=A0 -4.0mA=A0=A0 NA=A0 NA
=A0=A0 0= .50V=A0 -5.0mA=A0=A0 NA=A0 NA
=A0=A0 0.60V=A0 -6.0mA=A0=A0 NA=A0 NA
= =A0=A0 0.70V=A0 -7.0mA=A0=A0 NA=A0 NA
=A0=A0 0.80V=A0 -8.0mA=A0=A0 NA=A0 NA
=A0=A0 0.90V=A0 -9.0mA=A0=A0 NA=A0= NA
=A0=A0 1.00V=A0 -10.0mA=A0 NA=A0 NA
=A0=A0 1.10V=A0 -11.0mA=A0 NA= =A0 NA
=A0=A0 1.20V=A0 -12.0mA=A0 NA=A0 NA
|
[End]
|***********= ******************************************
=A0
According to=A0understanding from IBIS specification document, =A0both= above given models should be identical.
But, during simulation I am getting different results.
Series model with only [R series] is giving desirable result while mod= el with only [Series current] giving totally different results
=A0
Am I doing something wrong=A0or there is some problem with my simulato= r???
=A0
Thanks in advance
Edward
=A0
=A0
=A0

--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --00504502b4683c2ba00473871af9-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:01:54 -0400 From: "Mike LaBonte (milabont)" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Usage of [Series Current] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA353B.8936AB1E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The series models below do appear to be equivalent. Voltage on series models is measured from pin 1 to pin 2 of the [Series Pin Mapping] entry, and currents into pin 2 would be negative. It should not be necessary, but it may help to extend the table voltage range all the way from -1.2V to +2.4V. =20 In my opinion it is quite likely that there could be issues with some [Series Current] implementations, and the various tools may behave differently. If you are an IC vendor you could submit your IBIS file to the free model review service, where it will be examined and tested by EDA tool vendors and other experts. =20 http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/support.htm =20 Or you could report the problem to the vendor you are using. =20 Mike ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Edward Rose Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:27 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Usage of [Series Current] Hello Experts, =20 I am trying to use [Series Current] keyword instead of [R series] in a Series model as given below. =20 =20 |********************************************************************** [Model] SER_RES Model_type Series Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-High C_comp 0pF 0pF 0pF | | typ min max [Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V | | variable R(typ) R(min) R(max) | |[R Series] 100ohm NA NA | [End] |********************************************************************** | [Model] SER_CURR Model_type Series Polarity Non-Inverting |Enable Active-High C_comp 0pF 0pF 0pF | | typ min max [Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V | [Series Current] | Voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) 0.00V 0.0A NA NA 0.10V -1.0mA NA NA 0.20V -2.0mA NA NA 0.30V -3.0mA NA NA 0.40V -4.0mA NA NA 0.50V -5.0mA NA NA 0.60V -6.0mA NA NA 0.70V -7.0mA NA NA 0.80V -8.0mA NA NA 0.90V -9.0mA NA NA 1.00V -10.0mA NA NA 1.10V -11.0mA NA NA 1.20V -12.0mA NA NA | [End] |***************************************************** =20 According to understanding from IBIS specification document, both above given models should be identical. But, during simulation I am getting different results.=20 Series model with only [R series] is giving desirable result while model with only [Series current] giving totally different results =20 Am I doing something wrong or there is some problem with my simulator??? =20 Thanks in advance Edward =20 =20 =20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA353B.8936AB1E Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The series models below do appear to be equivale= nt.=20 Voltage on series models is measured from pin 1 to pin 2 of the [Series Pin= =20 Mapping] entry, and currents into pin 2 would be negative. It should not be= =20 necessary, but it may help to extend the table voltage range all the way fr= om=20 - -1.2V to +2.4V.
 
In my opinion it is quite likely that there coul= d be=20 issues with some [Series Current] implementations, and the various tools ma= y=20 behave differently. If you are an IC vendor you could submit your IBIS file= to=20 the free model review service, where it will be examined and tested by EDA = tool=20 vendors and other experts.
 
http://www.eigroup.org/ibi= s/support.htm
 
Or you could report the problem to the vendor yo= u are=20 using.
 
Mike

From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org= =20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Edward=20 Rose
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:27 AM
To:=20 ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Use= rs]=20 Usage of [Series Current]

Hello Experts,
 
I am trying to use [Series Current] keyword instead of [R series] in a= =20 Series model as given below.
 
 
|*********************************************************************= *
[Model]  SER_RES
Model_type  Series
Polarity =20 Non-Inverting
Enable  Active-High
C_comp  0pF  0pF&nbs= p;=20 0pF
|
|  typ  min  max
[Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V= =20 1.32V
|
| variable R(typ) R(min) R(max)
|
|[R Series] 100ohm  NA  NA
|
[End]
|*********************************************************************= *
|
[Model]  SER_CURR
Model_type  Series
Polarity  Non-Inverting
|Enable&nbs= p;=20 Active-High
C_comp  0pF  0pF  0pF
|
|  typ&nbs= p;=20 min  max
[Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V
|
[Series Current]<= BR>|=20 Voltage I(typ)    I(min)    I(max)
 &= nbsp;=20 0.00V   0.0A      NA  NA
 &= nbsp;=20 0.10V  -1.0mA   NA  NA
   0.20V =20 - -2.0mA   NA  NA
   0.30V  -3.0mA &nbs= p;=20 NA  NA
   0.40V  -4.0mA   NA =20 NA
   0.50V  -5.0mA   NA  NA
 &nbs= p;=20 0.60V  -6.0mA   NA  NA
   0.70V =20 - -7.0mA   NA  NA
   0.80V  -8.0mA &nbs= p;=20 NA  NA
   0.90V  -9.0mA   NA =20 NA
   1.00V  -10.0mA  NA  NA
  =20 1.10V  -11.0mA  NA  NA
   1.20V  -12.0mA&n= bsp;=20 NA =20 NA
|
[End]
|*****************************************************<= /DIV>
 
According to understanding from IBIS specification document,=20  both above given models should be identical.
But, during simulation I am getting different results.
Series model with only [R series] is giving desirable result while mod= el=20 with only [Series current] giving totally different results
 
Am I doing something wrong or there is some problem with my=20 simulator???
 
Thanks in advance
Edward
 
 
 

--
This message has been scanned for viruses and= =20
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA353B.8936AB1E-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:49:08 -0700 From: Bob Ross Subject: [IBIS-Users] Asian IBIS Summit (China) Fourth Announcement To All: The IBIS Open Forum is holding an Asian IBIS Summit Meeting in Shanghai, China, a major technology center on Wednesday, November 4, 2009. Several companies listed below are co-sponsoring this large event to be held at the Four Points by Sheraton, Shanghai in the Pudong District. Like in previous years, We are planning for about 150 attendees including several IBIS experts from the USA. We encourage technical contributions from Asia. We expect a full agenda of relevant material. We are also planning a Summit in Tokyo, Japan on November 6 to be announced later. You may want to consider this in you travel plans. Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (CHINA) FOURTH CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AND PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/nov09a/announcement_chinese.pdf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( C H I N A ) Time/Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 8:00 AM to 5:30 PM Meeting starts at 9:00 AM Location: Four Points by Sheraton, Shanghai, Pudong 2111 Pudong Nan Road Shanghai 200127 P. R. China http://www.starwoodhotels.com/fourpoints/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1716 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and exchange IBIS and interconnect model related information and ideas. Primary Sponsor: Huawei Technologies Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): Agilent Technologies, Ansoft Corporation, Cadence Design Systems, Cybernet Systems Intel Corporation, Mentor Graphics Corporation, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft), Sigrity, Synopsys, and ZTE Corporation. Cost: FREE, including refreshments and buffet lunch Vendors: Some vendors will have information tables outside the meeting room Contact us for details regarding sponsorship. BACKGROUND We have held four successful meetings in Shenzhen, Shanghai and Beijing. This year we are meeting again in Shanghai where many Chinese and foreign high technology companies have operations. These events are archived along with all our other Summits: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/ Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and Chinese. So presenters can optionally deliver in Chinese as long as an English version of the material is available. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summits site, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. However, no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS and interconnect model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register using the information below (in English): Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Telephone: Comments: (Such as assistance for the travel requirements at the end) Send to BOTH: Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Lance Wang, IO Methology Inc. lwang@iometh.com SIGNUP DEADLINE: October 28, 2009 CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS and interconnect modeling experiences or issues. If we have to select presentations for the number of time slots available, we will give preferential consideration to presentations from Asia. Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Power Point or Acrobat Presentation Booklet: Available at the meeting for all attendees Presentation Deadline: October 7, 2009 to produce the presentation booklet for the meeting If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. Submitted presentations must be in English, although the delivery can be in Mandarin. Submissions from Asia are encouraged along with other submissions world-wide. Topics may include behavioral modeling of buffers, interconnects or other system components. AGENDA 8:15 - 9:00 Vendor table setup and tables 8:30 - 9:00 Sign in 9:00 - 12:00 Presentations 12:00 - 13:30 Free buffet lunch, vendor tables 13:30 - 17:30 Presentations 17:30 - 18:30 Casual conversations, vendor tables The specific agenda is being developed. We expect nine or ten presentations covering a range of issues from existing customer experiences, existing clarifications and some of the future directions in IBIS to deal with technical advances. Several major IBIS Committee presentations from IBIS officers or active members are planned. Several presentations on IBIS applications and behavioral modeling issues, including interconnects and system components, are expected from co-sponsor companies and/or their customers. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels in all price ranges can be found through internet searches. Comply with your travel rules, such as indicated in the link below to China and Shanghai. Work with your travel agent. Notify us as a sign-up comment if you need assistance. Visas, if needed, should fall in the visit/business category: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:45:03 +0530 From: Vipul Pursottam PATEL Subject: [IBIS-Users] Regarding data extraction method for [ISSO_PU], ibis spec ver.5.0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CA3876.FD970630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Experts, While going through IBIS specs 5.0, I found some discrepancy in the description of [ISSO_PU] keyword on page no. 59 (PDF version). Here in the Last says "The output is connected to the Vcc (typical) value as shown below." , but in the figure the output is shown connected to GND (PullDown reference). I think the output should be connected to GND for extraction of data for [ISSO_PU] keyword which is shown in the fig on page 60. Regards, Vipul Patel - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CA3876.FD970630 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regarding data extraction method for [ISSO_PU], ibis spec ver.5.0</T= ITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <!-- Converted from text/rtf format --> <P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN = LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Hello Experts,</FONT></S= PAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"e= n-us"></SPAN></P> <P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN = LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P> <P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN = LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">While going through</FON= T></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG= =3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">IBIS specs 5.0,</FONT></SPA= N><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-= us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">I</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us= "></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FA= CE=3D"Courier New"> found some</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SP= AN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Couri= er New">discrepancy</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"= en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> in = the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><S= PAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">description</FONT><= /SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D= "en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> of [ISSO_PU</FONT></SPAN><SPAN= LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FO= NT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN= ><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Co= urier New"> keyword on page no. 59</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN= ><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"C= ourier New">(</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"= ></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">PDF versio= n</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPA= N LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN L= ANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT= SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><= SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Cour= ier New"> Here in the </FONT></SPAN></P> <P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN = LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Last</FONT></SPAN><SPAN = LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FO= NT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">says</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></S= PAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D= "Courier New"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><B></B></SPAN><SPAN LANG= =3D"en-us"><B></B></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Co= urier New">“</FONT></B></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><B></B></SPAN><SPA= N LANG=3D"en-us"><B></B></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE= =3D"Courier New">The output is connected to the Vcc (typical) value as show= n below.”</FONT></B></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"= en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> , b= ut in the figure</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-= us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">the ou= tput is shown</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"= ></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> connected= to GND (</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></S= PAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">PullDown</FONT= ></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG= =3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> reference).</FONT></SPAN><S= PAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us">= <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> </FONT></SPAN></P> <P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN = LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">I think the output shoul= d be connected to GND for extraction of data for</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D= "en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE= =3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN = LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier N= ew">ISSO_PU]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us">= </SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> keyword</F= ONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LA= NG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> which is shown in the fig= on page 60</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><= /SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">.</FONT></SP= AN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en= - -us"></SPAN></P> <P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN = LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P> <P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN = LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier N= ew">Regards,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us">= </SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P> <P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN = LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier N= ew">Vipul Patel</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-u= s"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P> <P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P> </BODY> <br />--=20 <br />This message has been scanned for viruses and <br />dangerous content by <a href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br />believed to be clean. </HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CA3876.FD970630-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:25:12 -0700 From: Bob Ross <bob@teraspeed.com> Subject: [IBIS-Users] Re: [IBIS] Regarding data extraction method for [ISSO_PU], ibis spec ver.5.0 Hi Vipul: I think you are correct, but I have to look at this closely. We may need to generate a BIRD to correct the Specification. Bob Vipul Pursottam PATEL wrote: > Hello Experts, > > While going through IBIS specs 5.0, I found some discrepancy in the > description of [ISSO_PU] keyword on page no. 59 (PDF version). Here in the > > Last says ?The output is connected to the Vcc (typical) value as shown > below.? , but in the figure the output is shown connected to GND > (PullDown reference). > > I think the output should be connected to GND for extraction of data for > [ISSO_PU] keyword which is shown in the fig on page 60. > > Regards, > > Vipul Patel > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is > believed to be clean. - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:25:57 -0700 From: Bob Ross <bob@teraspeed.com> Subject: [IBIS-Users] Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) Second Announcement To All: The IBIS Open Forum will hold its fourth Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) Meeting on November 6 in Tokyo, Japan. This year we are starting Friday afternoon, but still expect a full program. We have moved the check in time to 13:30. JEITA (Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association) is the primary event sponsor with several companies, to be listed below, acting as co-sponsors. The event will held at JEITA headquarters in Tokyo. Several experts from outside of Japan are expected to participate. We encourage technical contributions from Asia. Note that we are also holding a Summit in Shanghai, People's Republic of China on November 4. You may want to consider this in your travel plans. Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group Takeshi Watanabe NEC Electronics Corporation - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (JAPAN) SECOND CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AND PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( J A P A N ) Time/Date: Friday November 6, 2009, 13:30 to 18:00 Meeting starts at 14:00 Location: JEITA Headquarters (new location since 2008) Chiyoda First Bldg. South Wing, 3-2-1 Nishi-Kanda, Chiyoda-ku Tokyo, 101-0065 JAPAN http://www.jeita.or.jp/english/about/location/index.htm Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Organizational Sponsors: Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) IBIS Open Forum Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): ATE (Sigrity), Cadence Design Systems, Zuken Others to be listed after confirmation Cost: FREE, including refreshments Contact us for details regarding sponsorship BACKGROUND This year we holding the fourth open Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) meeting. Major Japanese companies operate in Tokyo and are affiliated with JEITA and IBIS. Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts, foster information exchange and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and Japanese. Presenters are welcome to deliver the presentation in Japanese for the convenience of attendees so long as an English printed version of the material is available. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summit site and minutes of the meeting will be issued. However, no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS model development, EDA tool development, signal integrity simulation, platform and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Telephone: Send to BOTH: Bob ROSS, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Kazuyoshi SHOJI, Hitachi ULSI Systems kazuyoshi.shohji.aj@hitachi.com SIGNUP DEADLINE: October 30, 2009 Because of limited space, advance registration is required. CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. If we have to select presentations for the number of time slots available, we will give preferential consideration to presentations from Asia. Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Microsoft PowerPoint or Adobe PDF Presentation Copies: Available at the meeting for all attendees Presentation Deadline: October 30, 2009 to produce the presentation copies for the meeting If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. Submissions from Asia-based presenters are encouraged. AGENDA (Tentative) 13:30 Sign in Asian IBIS Summit (Japan) 14:00 Presentations 15:30 Refreshments and Vendor Tables 16:00 Presentations 18:00 End of Meeting The specific agenda is being developed. We expect seven or eight presentations covering a range of issues from existing customer experiences, existing clarifications and some of the future directions in IBIS to deal with technical advances. Several major IBIS Committee presentations from IBIS officers or active members are planned. Several presentations on IBIS applications or modeling issues are expected from co-sponsor companies or their customers. Also, we will have sponsor booths this year. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels in all price ranges can be found through internet searches. JEITA suggests the Tokyo Dome Hotel as convenient accommodation. JEITA headquarters is located near several train stations (click image): http://www.jeita.or.jp/english/about/location/index.htm - ---------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:56:28 +0530 From: Prabhat RANJAN <prabhat.ranjan@st.com> Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Usage of [Series Current] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01CA3B94.DDB314A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Mike n Experts, Regarding the direction of current, you have mentioned that " currents into pin 2 would be negative. It should not be necessary.". For which condition, above convention would not be valid?? Also, For any positive voltage in V-I table of [Series Current] ( i.e., voltage of pin 1 is greater than pin2 ) , current will come out from pin 1 and will go into pin 2 and from Defined convention of [Series keyword], sign of current will be negative. Similarly, for negative voltage, current will be positive. But, example given under keyword [Series Current] in IBIS ver5.0 specification document shows negative current for negative voltage. Am I interpreting the "current direction convention" wrongly or there is some discrepancy in SPECIFICATION document?? Regards PRABHAT From: owner-ibis@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Mike LaBonte (milabont) Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:32 PM To: Edward Rose; ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS] RE: [IBIS-Users] Usage of [Series Current] The series models below do appear to be equivalent. Voltage on series models is measured from pin 1 to pin 2 of the [Series Pin Mapping] entry, and currents into pin 2 would be negative. It should not be necessary, but it may help to extend the table voltage range all the way from -1.2V to +2.4V. In my opinion it is quite likely that there could be issues with some [Series Current] implementations, and the various tools may behave differently. If you are an IC vendor you could submit your IBIS file to the free model review service, where it will be examined and tested by EDA tool vendors and other experts. http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/support.htm Or you could report the problem to the vendor you are using. Mike _____ From: owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Edward Rose Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:27 AM To: ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Usage of [Series Current] Hello Experts, I am trying to use [Series Current] keyword instead of [R series] in a Series model as given below. |********************************************************************** [Model] SER_RES Model_type Series Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-High C_comp 0pF 0pF 0pF | | typ min max [Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V | | variable R(typ) R(min) R(max) | |[R Series] 100ohm NA NA | [End] |********************************************************************** | [Model] SER_CURR Model_type Series Polarity Non-Inverting |Enable Active-High C_comp 0pF 0pF 0pF | | typ min max [Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V | [Series Current] | Voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) 0.00V 0.0A NA NA 0.10V -1.0mA NA NA 0.20V -2.0mA NA NA 0.30V -3.0mA NA NA 0.40V -4.0mA NA NA 0.50V -5.0mA NA NA 0.60V -6.0mA NA NA 0.70V -7.0mA NA NA 0.80V -8.0mA NA NA 0.90V -9.0mA NA NA 1.00V -10.0mA NA NA 1.10V -11.0mA NA NA 1.20V -12.0mA NA NA | [End] |***************************************************** According to understanding from IBIS specification document, both above given models should be identical. But, during simulation I am getting different results. Series model with only [R series] is giving desirable result while model with only [Series current] giving totally different results Am I doing something wrong or there is some problem with my simulator??? Thanks in advance Edward - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <http://www.mailscanner.info/> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <http://www.mailscanner.info/> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01CA3B94.DDB314A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} - --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Hello Mike n Experts, <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Regarding the direction of current, you have mentioned that “ </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-se= rif"; color:blue'>currents into pin 2 would be negative. It should not be necessary…”.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>For which condition, above convention would not be valid??<o= :p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Also, For any positive voltage in V-I table of [Series Curre= nt] ( i.e., voltage of pin 1 is greater than pin2 ) , current will come out from pin 1 and will go into pin 2 and from Defined convention of [Series keyword= ], sign of current will be negative. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Similarly, for negative voltage, current will be positive. <= o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>But, example given under keyword [Series Current] in IBIS ve= r5.0 specification document shows negative current for negative voltage.<o:p></o= :p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Am I interpreting the “current direction convention= 221; wrongly or there is some discrepancy in SPECIFICATION document??<o:p></o:p>= </span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>PRABHAT<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in'> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma= ","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> owner-ibis@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@server.eda.org] <b>On Behalf O= f </b>Mike LaBonte (milabont)<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 14, 2009 6:32 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Edward Rose; ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> [IBIS] RE: [IBIS-Users] Usage of [Series Current]<o:p></o:p= ></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s= ans-serif"; color:blue'>The series models below do appear to be equivalent. Voltage on series models is measured from pin 1 to pin 2 of the [Series Pin Mapping] entry, and currents into pin 2 would be negative. It should not be necessar= y, but it may help to extend the table voltage range all the way from -1.2V to +2.4V.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s= ans-serif"; color:blue'>In my opinion it is quite likely that there could be issues with some [Series Current] implementations, and the various tools may behave differently. If you are an IC vendor you could submit your IBIS file to the free model review service, where it will be examined and tested by EDA tool vendors and other experts.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s= ans-serif"; color:blue'><a href=3D"http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/support.htm">http://www.= eigroup.org/ibis/support.htm</a></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s= ans-serif"; color:blue'>Or you could report the problem to the vendor you are using.</s= pan><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s= ans-serif"; color:blue'>Mike</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style=3D'font-= size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size= :10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@server.eda.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Edward Rose<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 14, 2009 6:27 AM<br> <b>To:</b> ibis-users@server.eda.org; ibis@server.eda.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> [IBIS-Users] Usage of [Series Current]</span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Hello Experts,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I am trying to use [Series Current] keyword instead of= [R series] in a Series model as given below.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>|*****************************************************= *****************<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>[Model]  SER_RES<br> Model_type  Series<br> Polarity  Non-Inverting<br> Enable  Active-High<br> C_comp  0pF  0pF  0pF<br> |<br> |  typ  min  max<br> [Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V<br> |<br> | variable R(typ) R(min) R(max)<br> |<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>|[R Series] 100ohm  NA  NA<br> |<br> [End]<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>|*****************************************************= *****************<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>|<br> [Model]  SER_CURR<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Model_type  Series<br> Polarity  Non-Inverting<br> |Enable  Active-High<br> C_comp  0pF  0pF  0pF<br> |<br> |  typ  min  max<br> [Voltage Range] 1.2V 1.08V 1.32V<br> |<br> [Series Current]<br> | Voltage I(typ)    I(min)    I(max)<br>    0.00V   0.0A      NA  = NA<br>    0.10V  -1.0mA   NA  NA<br>    0.20V  -2.0mA   NA  NA<br>    0.30V  -3.0mA   NA  NA<br>    0.40V  -4.0mA   NA  NA<br>    0.50V  -5.0mA   NA  NA<br>    0.60V  -6.0mA   NA  NA<br>    0.70V  -7.0mA   NA  NA<br>    0.80V  -8.0mA   NA  NA<br>    0.90V  -9.0mA   NA  NA<br>    1.00V  -10.0mA  NA  NA<br>    1.10V  -11.0mA  NA  NA<br>    1.20V  -12.0mA  NA  NA<br> |<br> [End]<br> |*****************************************************<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>According to understanding from IBIS specification document,  both above given models should be identical.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>But, during simulation I am getting different results.= <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Series model with only [R series] is giving desirable = result while model with only [Series current] giving totally different results<o:p= ></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Am I doing something wrong or there is some probl= em with my simulator???<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks in advance<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Edward<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><br> - -- <br> This message has been scanned for viruses and <br> dangerous content by <a href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanne= r</b></a>, and is <br> believed to be clean. <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><br> - -- <br> This message has been scanned for viruses and <br> dangerous content by <a href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanne= r</b></a>, and is <br> believed to be clean. <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </body> <br />--=20 <br />This message has been scanned for viruses and <br />dangerous content by <a href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br />believed to be clean. </html> - ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01CA3B94.DDB314A0-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:53:53 -0400 From: Eric Monteiro <Eric.Monteiro@gennum.com> Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS AMI analog channel - --_000_B66E0103B6CB5145AD5408F15549A1E8211ACBB425EXCHANGEadgen_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Upon reviewing the following presentation: http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jul09/katz1.pdf pages 3 through 6 Where the impulse respone is measured remains unlear. 1) I assume the ideal pulse is forced at the input of the Tx and the output= is measured after the analog front end of the Rx (i.e. the input to the CD= R). So my question is, where have other model developers forced the impulse (in= put or output of Tx), and measured the impulse reponse (input or output of = Rx) that is then passed to AMI_Init? 2) If the pulse is indeed forced at the input of the Tx, and meausred at th= e output of the Rx (right before the CDR) does that not mean that AMI is NO= T compatible with current IBIS models since you can't measure an output fro= m an Rx input buffer? In which case, AMI should just be its own standalone= standard not imbeded within an IBIS model (like ICM), shouldn't it? Regards, Eric ________________________________ This communication contains confidential information intended only for the = addressee(s). If you have received this communication in error, please noti= fy us immediately and delete this communication from your mail box. - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_B66E0103B6CB5145AD5408F15549A1E8211ACBB425EXCHANGEadgen_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16890" name=3D"GENERATOR"> </head> <body> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009">Hel= lo</span></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"></s= pan></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009">Upo= n reviewing the following presentation:</span></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><a = href=3D"http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jul09/katz1.pdf"><u><font color=3D"= #0000ff" size=3D"2"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN">ht= tp://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jul09/katz1.pdf</u></font></font></span></a><= font size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN"> pages 3 through 6</span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN"></span></font></span></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN">Where the impulse respone is measured remai= ns unlear. </span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN"></span></font></span></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN">1) I assume the ideal pulse is forced = at the input of the Tx and the output is measured after the analog front en= d of the Rx (i.e. the input to the CDR).</span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN"></span></font></span></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN">So my question is, where have other model d= evelopers forced the impulse (input or output of Tx), and measured the impu= lse reponse (input or output of Rx) that is then passed to AMI_Init?</span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN"></span></font></span></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN">2) If the pulse is indeed forced at the inp= ut of the Tx, and meausred at the output of the Rx (right before the CDR) d= oes that not mean that AMI is NOT compatible with current IBIS models since you can't measure an output from an Rx inpu= t buffer?  In which case, AMI should just be its own standalone standa= rd not imbeded within an IBIS model (like ICM), shouldn't it?</span></font>= </span></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN"></span></font></span></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN">Regards,</span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"225083501-23092009"><fo= nt size=3D"2"><span lang=3D"EN">Eric</div> </span></font></span></font><br> <hr> <font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"Gray" size=3D"2">This communication contains = confidential information intended only for the addressee(s). If you have re= ceived this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete= this communication from your mail box.<br> </font> </body> <br />--=20 <br />This message has been scanned for viruses and <br />dangerous content by <a href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br />believed to be clean. </html> - --_000_B66E0103B6CB5145AD5408F15549A1E8211ACBB425EXCHANGEadgen_-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:26:33 -0400 From: "Ambrish Varma" <ambrishv@cadence.com> Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS AMI analog channel This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA3C06.092D4624 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Eric, The analog channel is considered to be the Tx back end, the serial channel and the Rx front end. Not all of these can be defined by the IBIS model, but certainly a part of it can be. The other parts can be defined by S parameters, transistor level models or macro-models.=20 About the question as to why the AMI model is embedded inside the IBIS model - the idea was to extend the capacity of the IBIS model to include SERDES devices that are a part of the Tx and Rx. =20 Hope that answers your questions, Regards, Ambrish. =20 Cadence Design Systems, Inc. =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Eric Monteiro Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:54 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS AMI analog channel =20 Hello =20 Upon reviewing the following presentation: http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jul09/katz1.pdf <http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jul09/katz1.pdf> pages 3 through 6 =20 Where the impulse respone is measured remains unlear.=20 =20 1) I assume the ideal pulse is forced at the input of the Tx and the output is measured after the analog front end of the Rx (i.e. the input to the CDR). =20 So my question is, where have other model developers forced the impulse (input or output of Tx), and measured the impulse reponse (input or output of Rx) that is then passed to AMI_Init? =20 2) If the pulse is indeed forced at the input of the Tx, and meausred at the output of the Rx (right before the CDR) does that not mean that AMI is NOT compatible with current IBIS models since you can't measure an output from an Rx input buffer? In which case, AMI should just be its own standalone standard not imbeded within an IBIS model (like ICM), shouldn't it? =20 Regards, Eric =20 ________________________________ This communication contains confidential information intended only for the addressee(s). If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete this communication from your mail box. - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner <http://www.mailscanner.info/> , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA3C06.092D4624 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} - --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style= =3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Eric,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style= =3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The analog channel is considered to be= the Tx back end, the serial channel and the Rx front end. Not all of these can = be defined by the IBIS model, but certainly a part of it can be.  The oth= er parts can be defined by S parameters, transistor level models or macro-mode= ls. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style= =3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>About the question as to why the AMI m= odel is embedded inside the IBIS model – the idea was to extend the capaci= ty of the IBIS model to include SERDES devices that are a part of the Tx and R= x.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style= =3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style= =3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hope that answers your questions,<o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style= =3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style= =3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ambrish.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style= =3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style= =3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Cadence Design Systems, Inc.<o:p></o:p= ></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style= =3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:= center'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTa= homa><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span>= </font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Eric Monteiro<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, September 22,= 2009 9:54 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ibis-users@eda.org<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [IBIS-Users] IBIS A= MI analog channel</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Time= s New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial= ><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hello</span></font><o:p></o:p>= </p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Time= s New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial= ><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Upon reviewing the following presentation:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial= ><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><a href=3D"http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jul09/katz1.pdf"><span lang=3DEN>ht= tp://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jul09/katz1.pdf</span></a></span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family= :Arial'> pages 3 through 6</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Time= s New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial= ><span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Where the impulse re= spone is measured remains unlear. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Time= s New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial= ><span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>1) I assume the= ideal pulse is forced at the input of the Tx and the output is measured after the analog front end of the Rx (i.e. the input to the CDR).</span></font><o:p><= /o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Time= s New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial= ><span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>So my question is, w= here have other model developers forced the impulse (input or output of Tx), and= measured the impulse reponse (input or output of Rx) that is then passed to AMI_Init?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Time= s New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial= ><span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>2) If the pulse is i= ndeed forced at the input of the Tx, and meausred at the output of the Rx (right before the CDR) does that not mean that AMI is NOT compatible with current = IBIS models since you can't measure an output from an Rx input buffer?  In which case, AMI should just be its own standalone standard not imbeded with= in an IBIS model (like ICM), shouldn't it?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Time= s New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial= ><span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Regards,</span></fon= t><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DArial= ><span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Eric<o:p></o:p></spa= n></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Time= s New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:= center'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dgray= face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:gray'>This communication contains confidential information intended only for the addressee(s). If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete this communication from your mail box.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </body> <br />--=20 <br />This message has been scanned for viruses and <br />dangerous content by <a href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br />believed to be clean. <br />--=20 <br />This message has been scanned for viruses and <br />dangerous content by <a href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br />believed to be clean. </html> - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA3C06.092D4624-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:31:04 -0400 From: Todd Westerhoff <twesterh@sisoft.com> Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS AMI analog channel <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Eric,<br> <br> The way I usually describe this is to say the impulse response "contains the effects of the transmitter's analog back end, channel and the receiver's input termination network".  There are a number of ways to derive this, but one way is to take the network consisting of the transmitter analog output, channel model and the receiver input and simulate the step response.  The waveform at the receiver pad is then differentiated to obtain the impulse response for the analog network.<br> <br> The "high impedance" points on slide 3 are shown to illustrate why the link can be broken into analog and algorithmic sections in the first place; i.e. why the two step process of network characterization and channel simulation is valid.<br> <br> Does that help?<br> <br> Todd.<br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Todd Westerhoff VP, Software Products SiSoft 6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250 Maynard, MA 01754 (978) 461-0449 x24 <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:twesterh@sisoft.com">twesterh@sisoft.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.sisoft.com">www.sisoft.com</a> </pre> <br> <br> Eric Monteiro wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:B66E0103B6CB5145AD5408F15549A1E8211ACBB425@EXCHANGE.ad.gennum.com" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16890" name="GENERATOR"> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009">Hello</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009">Upon reviewing the following presentation:</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jul09/katz1.pdf"><u><font color="#0000ff" size="2"><font color="#0000ff" size="2"><span lang="EN">http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jul09/katz1.pdf</span></font></font></u></a></span><font size="2"><span lang="EN"> pages 3 through 6</span></font></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN"></span></font></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN">Where the impulse respone is measured remains unlear. </span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN"></span></font></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN">1) I assume the ideal pulse is forced at the input of the Tx and the output is measured after the analog front end of the Rx (i.e. the input to the CDR).</span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN"></span></font></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN">So my question is, where have other model developers forced the impulse (input or output of Tx), and measured the impulse reponse (input or output of Rx) that is then passed to AMI_Init?</span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN"></span></font></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN">2) If the pulse is indeed forced at the input of the Tx, and meausred at the output of the Rx (right before the CDR) does that not mean that AMI is NOT compatible with current IBIS models since you can't measure an output from an Rx input buffer?  In which case, AMI should just be its own standalone standard not imbeded within an IBIS model (like ICM), shouldn't it?</span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN"></span></font></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN">Regards,</span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="225083501-23092009"><font size="2"><span lang="EN">Eric</span></font></span></font></div> <br> <hr> <font color="Gray" face="Arial" size="2">This communication contains confidential information intended only for the addressee(s). If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete this communication from your mail box.<br> </font> <br> - -- <br> This message has been scanned for viruses and <br> dangerous content by <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br> believed to be clean. </blockquote> </body> <br />-- <br />This message has been scanned for viruses and <br />dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br />believed to be clean. </html> - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | subscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis <optional e-mail address, if different> | unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different> | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ End of ibis-users V1 #131 *************************