From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #144 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Precedence: bulk ibis-users Thursday, July 29 2010 Volume 01 : Number 144 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 14:01:16 -0400 From: "Timothy Coyle" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS DIFF input buffers Hi Tom, I agree the ODT implementation in IBIS curves depends on the differential buffer design (i.e. LVDS vs CML vs other) so users have to be careful how they generate the data and where they put it. Best, Tim - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Dagostino [mailto:tom@teraspeed.com] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:16 PM To: 'Timothy Coyle'; 'Eric Monteiro'; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS DIFF input buffers Tim There problem with including the ODT in a power or ground clamp if that differential termination is meant to float. Once you put that resistive characteristic in one or both of the clamp table the resistor is now tied to a voltage - it won't float anymore. Many if not all LVDS IBIS drivers behave totally different when driving a floating differential termination vs. a termination to a fixed voltage. A clamp based termination works well for CML receivers that typically have the 50 Ohm termination tied to Vdd but many technologies such as LVDS use floating terminations. Regards, Tom Dagostino Teraspeed(R) Labs 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 503-430-1065 503-430-1285 FAX tom@teraspeed.com www.teraspeed.com Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 121 North River Drive Narragansett, RI 02882 401-284-1827 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Timothy Coyle Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 9:45 AM To: 'Eric Monteiro'; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS DIFF input buffers Hi Eric, If I understand you correctly you are using single-ended buffers to model the inverting and non-inverting pins of a differential input buffer and you are using the Series R keyword in IBIS to represent the on-die termination. If so, then in general, your approach will be valid. Basically you will want to generate the ground and power clamp IV curve on one differential input pin. Depending on the differential buffer design and technology (LVDS,CML,etc) you can leave the other differential input pin floating or you may have to put some type of load on it as a feedback loop. Other assumptions are that there is not differential current flowing as in a true differential buffer and that you can essentially treat your differential design as pseudo differential. If your differential design is unbalanced then you should create separate buffer models for each differential input pin. Unfortunately there are still a lot of EDA tool issues with using Series pin mapping and keywords so be aware of your end customers target environment. You could also always try and include the on-die termination current in the clamp IV curves to avoid using the Series keywords. Hope this helps. Best, Tim - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Eric Monteiro Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:45 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS DIFF input buffers Hello Everyone I need a little validation/clarification. I have a differential input IBIS model, however my IBIS simulator is so out of date that it does not recognize the Series Keywords. So instead what I did was remove the series maping, and placed 2 single ended buffers with a resitor whos value equalled that in the Series R definition: i.e. - ------------|BUFFER| | Z Z | - ------------|BUFFER| My understanding is that the Diff buffer in IBIS DC tables should be the COMMON mode current into ONE of the diffential pins (i.e. I assume its not the sum of the current into the 2 pins, or 2 times the current I think it is). Based on that, the above should be valid. Can anyone confirm? Cheers, Eric This communication contains confidential information intended only for the addressee(s). If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete this communication from your mail box. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 10:31:29 -0600 From: Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: [ibis-macro] Use of IBIS-AMI models for standard interfaces by standards groups? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAE494.C33B6D85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Michael, =20 On behalf of Agilent EEsof I am volunteering to create and provide non proprietary version of IBIS AMI models for these standards.=20 =20 Best regards, Sanjeev =20 From: ibis-macro-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Mirmak, Michael Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:45 PM To: IBIS-ATM; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [ibis-macro] Use of IBIS-AMI models for standard interfaces by standards groups? =20 I have been studying several industry interface specifications in detail lately; specifically, SAS2 (available through www.t10.org) and PCI Express Gen. 3 (consult www.pci-sig.com; membership may be required for document access). Because of the high speeds of both, equalization is required and schemes such as DFE and CTLE are described in considerable detail. Some of these kinds of specifications include equations for how a "spec reference" receiver is supposed to operate for simulation purposes. =20 None of the industry interface documents I have read so far mentions IBIS-AMI however, though some explicitly mention StatEye or even refer to the standard group's own software or code for performing some simulation tasks. SAS2 even provides MATLAB code for one analysis procedure as part of the specification document. =20 Is this not an opportunity? Could one of our more enterprising readers use the industry specification equations to create a "spec reference" IBIS-AMI model for simulation purposes? This would certainly be a benefit both to the standard involved as well as to IBIS-AMI adoption, not to mention the individual or organization that actually releases the model. While I'm certain that private versions may exist, I would like to suggest a public release of one or more of these specification models. =20 Any volunteers? =20 * MM =20 =20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAE494.C33B6D85 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Michael,

 

On behalf of Agilent EEsof I am volunteering to create and provide non proprie= tary version of  IBIS AMI models for these standards.

 

Best regards,
Sanjeev

 

From:= ibis-macro-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Mirmak, Michael
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 20= 10 12:45 PM
To: IBIS-ATM; ibis-users@eda= .org
Subject: [ibis-macro] Use of IBIS-AMI models for standard interfaces by standards groups?

 

I have been studying several industry interface specifications in detail lately; specifically, SAS2 (available through www.t10.org) and PCI Express Gen= . 3 (consult www.pci-sig.com; membership= may be required for document access).  Because of the high speeds of both, equalization is required and schemes such as DFE and CTLE are described in considerable detail.  Some of these kinds of specifications include equations for how a “spec reference” receiver is supposed to operate for simulation purposes.

 

None of the industry interface document= s I have read so far mentions IBIS-AMI however, though some explicitly mention StatEye or even refer to the standard group’s own software or code for performing some simulation tasks. SAS2 even provides MATLAB code for one analysis procedure as part of the specification document.=

 

Is this not an opportunity?  Could= one of our more enterprising readers use the industry specification equations to create a “spec reference” IBIS-AMI model for simulation purposes?  This would certainly be a benefit both to the standard invo= lved as well as to IBIS-AMI adoption, not to mention the individual or organizat= ion that actually releases the model.  While I’m certain that private versions may exist, I would like to suggest a public release of one or more= of these specification models.

 

Any volunteers?

 

  • MM=

 

 


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAE494.C33B6D85-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 21:57:55 -0700 From: "Syed Huq (huqs)" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue The data format issue is a known problem but usually after the IBIS file is complied, you can edit out repeat data. I would not recommend doing this manually. The tool should simulate all the Typ, Min and Max conditions and then produce a .ibs file. Do you get to that point ? If yes, then you can edit the final .ibs file and get rid of garbage data usually at the end of each V/I tables. Your other choice is to try the s2ibis3 also available from the IBIS site under: http://www.eda.org/ibis/home/tools/tools.htm There are also commercial tools available to do this job. Don't ask me since I won't recommend any. - -syed - -----Original Message----- From: Jason Ma [mailto:Jason.Ma@analog.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:34 PM To: Syed Huq (huqs) Cc: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue Hi Syed, Thanks. I think you have noticed that there are some abnormal data in the put.out file. I also listed below: 20 -0.999999999999998 4.98199344324096 21 -0.799999999999998 4.12877792596131 22 -0.599999999999998 4.01970481456261 23 -0.399999999999998 4.01940828279669 24 -0.199999999999998 4.02194525365832 So I am mentioning that there may something wrong. Actually I can correct these data manually. Do you know any tool to read these output file and gather the data in to a ibis file? Best regards, Jason Syed Huq (huqs) wrote: > Hi Jason, > Your attached put6.out file is a function of how you setup the .s2i file > as well as your spice input files. > The s2ibis2 tool is simply running a spice simulation of your input file > and producing the output as you see. > So the problem needs to be debugged. > > For example, > Look at your put6.spi file and check if that is correct. > For a sanity check, run HSPICE on this file and compare the output to > your put6.out > > If you are not familiar with the translation method, look under the > /example folder of the installation of s2ibis2 and run those first. > > -Syed > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On > Behalf Of Jason Ma > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:57 PM > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue > > Dear Sir/Madam, > > I am a design engineer working for ADI. I am having a problem when I am > trying to generate an IBIS model with s2ibis2. > After run s2ibis2, I read the *.out data and found some abnormal data > included, please refer to the attachment. So using the ibischk3 for the > generated ibis model, it showed a lot of error messages. Could you help > to look at this problem? It will be good if we can generate the output > file without abnormal data. In another way, I can correct the abnormal > data manually, and could we use something to put the output file > together for the ibis model file (*.ibs)? Thanks a million. > > Best regards, > Jason > > ************************************************************************ > ****** > > > S2IBIS2 VERSION NUMBER: s2ibis2.linux v1.1 > > PLATFORM (SPARC, HP700, PC, etc.): A Sun Fire X4100 Server, x86_64 > > OS AND VERSION: Linux 2.6.9-89.0.9.ELsmp #1 SMP > > REPORTED BY: Jason > > DATE: May 26, 2010 > > DESCRIPTION OF BUG: > > the output file (*.out) contained some abnormal data, and the generated > ibis file (*.ibs) showed some error messages. > > INSERT FILE DEMONSTRATING THE BUG: > > put.out > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:50:11 -0400 From: "Lance Wang" Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Summit Third Call of Papers and Participations - DAC June15th, 2010, Anaheim CA All: This is the third announcement for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled along with the Design Automation Conference in Anaheim, California on June 15, 2010. Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. www.iometh.com - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT THIRD CALL FOR PARTICIPATION & PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: Tuesday June 15, 2010, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM Location: Anaheim Marriott 777 Convention Way, Anaheim, California 92802 Tel: 1-714-750-4321 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: IBIS Open Forum If your company would be interested in sponsoring this event, please contact Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) Sponsorship is available for the room, lunch, and coffee breaks. DAC: June 13 - 18, 2010 Anaheim Convention Center Anaheim, California FREE Exhibit Pass on Monday, June 14, 2010 See for more information. BACKGROUND The Design Automation Conference (DAC) is the premier Electronic Design Automation (EDA) and silicon solution event. Several vendors active in the IBIS Open Forum attend DAC. This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations are expected to be available and archived in an electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the meeting. The annual election of officers will be held. Nominations can be sent to Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) or made at the meeting. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Deadline, June 10, 2010. Send to: Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Format of Presentation: LCD Projection with Windows laptop. Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. Electronic presentations should be made available by June 7, 2010 for uploading and copying to the presentation laptop. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, breaks, and a luncheon (which will be provided). This will be developed as presentation proposals are received. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS See (http://www.dac.com/) for travel directions, hotels and other information or use other search engines. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:23:52 -0400 From: "Walter Katz" Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: [ibis-macro] Use of IBIS-AMI models for standard interfaces by standards groups? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01CAE3CA.87255470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, You can be assured that private (proprietary) versions of these models do exist, and in fact are part of the library that SiSoft delivers with its QCD product. Walter Walter Katz 303.449-2308 Mobile 720.333-1107 wkatz@sisoft.com www.sisoft.com - -----Original Message----- From: ibis-macro-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@freelists.org]On Behalf Of Mirmak, Michael Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:45 PM To: IBIS-ATM; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [ibis-macro] Use of IBIS-AMI models for standard interfaces by standards groups? I have been studying several industry interface specifications in detail lately; specifically, SAS2 (available through www.t10.org ) and PCI Express Gen. 3 (consult www.pci-sig.com ; membership may be required for document access). Because of the high speeds of both, equalization is required and schemes such as DFE and CTLE are described in considerable detail. Some of these kinds of specifications include equations for how a "spec reference" receiver is supposed to operate for simulation purposes. None of the industry interface documents I have read so far mentions IBIS-AMI however, though some explicitly mention StatEye or even refer to the standard group's own software or code for performing some simulation tasks. SAS2 even provides MATLAB code for one analysis procedure as part of the specification document. Is this not an opportunity? Could one of our more enterprising readers use the industry specification equations to create a "spec reference" IBIS-AMI model for simulation purposes? This would certainly be a benefit both to the standard involved as well as to IBIS-AMI adoption, not to mention the individual or organization that actually releases the model. While I'm certain that private versions may exist, I would like to suggest a public release of one or more of these specification models. Any volunteers? * MM - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01CAE3CA.87255470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mike= ,

 

You = can be assured that private (proprietary) versions of these models do exist, and in fact are part of the library that SiSoft delivers with its QCD product.

 

Walt= er

 

Walter Katz

= 303.449-230= 8

= Mobile 720.333-1107<= /span>

= wkatz@sisof= t.com

= www.sisoft.= com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ibis-macro-bounce@free= lists.org [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@freelists.org]On Behalf Of Mirmak, Michael
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 20= 10 3:45 PM
To: IBIS-ATM; ibis-users@eda= .org
Subject: [ibis-macro] Use of IBIS-AMI models for standard interfaces by standards groups?<= /p>

 <= /o:p>

I have been studying several industry interface specifications in detail late= ly; specifically, SAS2 (available through www.t1= 0.org) and PCI Express Gen. 3 (consult www.pci-= sig.com; membership may be required for document access).  Because of the high speeds of both, equalization is required and schemes such as DFE and CTLE a= re described in considerable detail.  Some of these kinds of specificatio= ns include equations for how a “spec reference” receiver is suppos= ed to operate for simulation purposes.

 = ;

None of the industry interface documents I have read so far mentions IBIS-AMI however, though some explicitly mention StatEye or even refer to the standa= rd group’s own software or code for performing some simulation tasks. SA= S2 even provides MATLAB code for one analysis procedure as part of the specification document.

 

Is this not an opportunity?  Could one of our more enterprising readers u= se the industry specification equations to create a “spec reference̶= 1; IBIS-AMI model for simulation purposes?  This would certainly be a benefit both= to the standard involved as well as to IBIS-AMI adoption, not to mention the individual or organization that actually releases the model.  While I&= #8217;m certain that private versions may exist, I would like to suggest a public release of one or more of these specification models.

 = ;

Any volunteers?

 

·      =       MM=

 = ;

 = ;


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01CAE3CA.87255470-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:35:58 +0100 From: "Nikonchuk Sergey-R6294C" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Composite Current and ISOO - Is it really enable accurate SSN ? Hi All, A time ago was several presentations, IEEE articles related to improvement of IBIS models to enable Accurate Power Integrity modeling. As a results, two new kewords were introduced in IBIS 5.0 standard - Composite Current and ISSO_PU/PD. Since that - I didn't find any presentation and/or article that proove new approach And confirm accuracy level of simulation with new data. As well, I don't know any IBIS simulator that really support these keyword. Does it mean that new keyword does not provide real advantage as was expected? Can anybody share some simulation results with new keywords? -- Or Point me on IBIS simulator that support it? -- Or Simulation Models Implementation that support new data? Feel free to e-mail me directly if there is some concerns with information distribution in this mail list. Any information, comments would be highly appreciated. Thanks, Sergey. Sergey.Nikonchuk@freescale.com - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 19:26:18 -0700 From: "Lynne D. Green" Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue The latest version is s2ibis3. A number of bugs in s2ibis2 were fixed in the latest release. Also, ibischk5 can check all versions of IBIS. Bugs are not fixed in older versions of ibischk. Regards, Lynne "IBIS training when you need it, where you need it." Dr. Lynne Green Green Streak Programs http://www.greenstreakprograms.com 425-788-0412 lgreen22@mindspring.com Jason Ma wrote: > Dear Sir/Madam, > > I am a design engineer working for ADI. I am having a problem when I > am trying to generate an IBIS model with s2ibis2. > After run s2ibis2, I read the *.out data and found some abnormal data > included, please refer to the attachment. So using the ibischk3 for > the generated ibis model, it showed a lot of error messages. Could you > help to look at this problem? It will be good if we can generate the > output file without abnormal data. In another way, I can correct the > abnormal data manually, and could we use something to put the output > file together for the ibis model file (*.ibs)? Thanks a million. > > Best regards, > Jason > > ****************************************************************************** > > > S2IBIS2 VERSION NUMBER: s2ibis2.linux v1.1 > > PLATFORM (SPARC, HP700, PC, etc.): A Sun Fire X4100 Server, x86_64 > > OS AND VERSION: Linux 2.6.9-89.0.9.ELsmp #1 SMP > > REPORTED BY: Jason > > DATE: May 26, 2010 > > DESCRIPTION OF BUG: > > the output file (*.out) contained some abnormal data, and the > generated ibis file (*.ibs) showed some error messages. > > INSERT FILE DEMONSTRATING THE BUG: > > put.out > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:56:50 +0800 From: Jason Ma Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue - --------------000008020007030100070602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sir/Madam, I am a design engineer working for ADI. I am having a problem when I am trying to generate an IBIS model with s2ibis2. After run s2ibis2, I read the *.out data and found some abnormal data included, please refer to the attachment. So using the ibischk3 for the generated ibis model, it showed a lot of error messages. Could you help to look at this problem? It will be good if we can generate the output file without abnormal data. In another way, I can correct the abnormal data manually, and could we use something to put the output file together for the ibis model file (*.ibs)? Thanks a million. Best regards, Jason ****************************************************************************** S2IBIS2 VERSION NUMBER: s2ibis2.linux v1.1 PLATFORM (SPARC, HP700, PC, etc.): A Sun Fire X4100 Server, x86_64 OS AND VERSION: Linux 2.6.9-89.0.9.ELsmp #1 SMP REPORTED BY: Jason DATE: May 26, 2010 DESCRIPTION OF BUG: the output file (*.out) contained some abnormal data, and the generated ibis file (*.ibs) showed some error messages. INSERT FILE DEMONSTRATING THE BUG: put.out - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --------------000008020007030100070602 Content-Type: text/plain; name="put6.out" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="put6.out" Title: * Typ pullup curve for model driver Date: 8:30:05 AM, Thur May 20, 2010 Plotname: DC Analysis `DCsweep': VOUTS2I:dc = (-5 V -> 15 V) Flags: real No. Variables: 2 No. Points: 101 Variables: 0 dc V 1 VOUTS2I:p A plot=0 grid=0 Values: 0 -5 75.4793324107639 1 -4.8 71.7270133165384 2 -4.6 67.9812158769187 3 -4.4 64.2402555355011 4 -4.2 60.5045344925023 5 -4 56.7747281056147 6 -3.8 53.0516702081208 7 -3.6 49.3363847179497 8 -3.4 45.63014547582 9 -3.2 41.9345632800395 10 -3 38.2517140982065 11 -2.8 34.5860614983488 12 -2.6 30.9379934938946 13 -2.4 27.3141891904266 14 -2.2 23.7222536845534 15 -2 20.1736941635296 16 -1.8 16.6872677757607 17 -1.6 13.2963104895643 18 -1.4 10.0674780544202 19 -1.2 7.15686978555597 20 -0.999999999999998 4.98199344324096 21 -0.799999999999998 4.12877792596131 22 -0.599999999999998 4.01970481456261 23 -0.399999999999998 4.01940828279669 24 -0.199999999999998 4.02194525365832 25 0 4.02552735657653 26 0.2 4.02730489961447 27 0.4 4.0284903801105 28 0.6 4.02909295014666 29 0.8 4.0290675309425 30 1 4.0283630681824 31 1.2 4.02692429899487 32 1.4 4.02469147894714 33 1.6 4.02159998265509 34 1.8 4.01757985793581 35 2 4.01255533203147 36 2.2 4.00644426404079 37 2.4 4.00035276843853 38 2.6 3.9918660559826 39 2.8 3.98196504342195 40 3 3.97057006824091 41 3.2 3.95755733671272 42 3.4 3.94279063799367 43 3.6 3.92612119392227 44 3.8 3.90738626792237 45 4 3.88640736146759 46 4.2 3.86298719440537 47 4.4 3.83689702411076 48 4.6 3.80506292698288 49 4.8 3.75626360237259 50 5 3.70289408055803 51 5.2 3.64568722638908 52 5.4 3.58440662831795 53 5.6 3.51876287956956 54 5.8 3.44843511455644 55 6 3.37306957966626 56 6.2 3.29227718684396 57 6.4 3.20563096455202 58 6.6 3.11266365175409 59 6.8 3.01228945878399 60 7 2.90517941296858 61 7.2 2.79010119078054 62 7.4 2.66640175267191 63 7.6 2.53339862152167 64 7.8 2.38998689732698 65 8 2.23632485246654 66 8.2 2.07115149793541 67 8.4 1.89346426816154 68 8.6 1.7032501021655 69 8.8 1.49949045999419 70 9 1.28165954852192 71 9.2 1.04981540801592 72 9.4 0.803860516048533 73 9.6 0.544593390643244 74 9.8 0.273842117638476 75 10 -1.3948225994348e-10 76 10.2 -0.256889488846381 77 10.4 -0.519500510135093 78 10.6 -0.781062369107818 79 10.8 -1.28740600450058 80 11 -3.17343169745618 81 11.2 -6.34955920206768 82 11.4 -10.1048576476161 83 11.6 -14.1130296095453 84 11.8 -18.2528803456765 85 12 -22.4725638288377 86 12.2 -26.7461612356634 87 12.4 -31.0589583011589 88 12.6 -35.4017384184354 89 12.8 -39.768289260058 90 13 -44.1541907749008 91 13.2 -48.5561687307614 92 13.4 -52.9712480816967 93 13.6 -57.3984004917268 94 13.8 -61.8356173730732 95 14 -66.2816237943636 96 14.2 -70.7353767462783 97 14.4 -75.1960080714721 98 14.6 -79.6627874487073 99 14.8 -84.1350947631917 100 15 -88.6123990708704 - --------------000008020007030100070602-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 18:20:48 -0500 From: "Mike LaBonte (milabont)" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] V-t graphs look for IBIS models This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAFD2A.144D5362 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The IBIS Quality Specification has rules related to this: =20 5.4.2. {LEVEL 2} V-T tables have reasonable point distribution V-T tables should be well behaved, with continuous second derivative. V-T point density should be sufficient in areas with non-zero second derivative. For example, a low to high state transition should have at least 10 points. This check is easily accomplished by viewing the curves and checking visually. =20 5.4.3. {LEVEL 3} V-T table duration is not excessive To avoid the "over clocking" issue, excess V-T points may be removed to match the V-T duration corresponding to the maximum data rate or frequency at which the device is expected to operate. When removing trailing V-T points the final DC value must be achieved, i.e., the ending slope should be very small. Since the two sets of V-T tables describe the relative on and off switching delay between the pullup and pulldown transistors, relative time position between all tables with the same edge direction and corner must be maintained when removing the leading excess V-T points. The number of excess V-T points removed can be different between corners (i.e., Typical, Minimum and Maximum) but it is recommended to explain the difference as comments of the IBIS file. =20 5.4.4. {LEVEL 2} V-T table endpoints match fixture voltages If the V_fixture values equal the supply reference voltages for the [Pullup] or [Pulldown] tables, then either the starting or ending points of the V-T tables are expected to equal these V_fixture values. This applies to full swing technologies such as CMOS, and not to technologies such as TTL, PECL, LVDS, or SERDES driver, which do not necessarily swing rail to rail. This check does not apply in cases where internal pullups/pulldowns or bias conditions exist such that the combined I-V tables have current flows at the V_fixture voltages. For example for a 3.3 V device with the [Voltage Range] set to 3.3 V, V_fixture =3D 3.3 V, and R_fixture =3D 50 ohms, the [Rising Waveform] table should end at 3.3 V, and the [Falling Waveform] table should begin at 3.3 V. =20 However, numeric limits are not given. I have been using 50% as the minimum portion of a V-T curve that the edge transition should fill, where the beginning and end of a transition is based on a 20mV/s dV/dt threshold. I use an overall Ttransition/Ttotal metric instead of limiting leading and trailing times separately. Now and then I get curves slightly under 50% on perfectly reasonable models, so 1/3 may be a good rule too. =20 The 10 points minimum in the transition rule is slightly more troublesome, as many models fall short or barely have that many. I'm using the same 20mV/s threshold to define the beginning and end of the transition, and I generously count one point before and one after the transition. Quite a few models still don't have 10. I think edge times are getting smaller faster than we are reducing our IBIS waveform generation parameters. =20 If the formatting of the IQ rules above is a problem see http://www.eda.org/ibis/quality_ver2.0/quality_ver2_0.pdf =20 Mike LaBonte =20 From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Baker, Bonnie Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:40 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] V-t graphs look for IBIS models =20 During the QC review of our IBIS models, we had a short discussion about the basic format of the V-t graphics. There are a few things that we know=20 1. The curves should not end too soon, meaning that they have not finished settling to their final DC value.=20 2. The end points should be consistent with the IV curves. 3. There are more points where the slope in changing (at least 10 points during the transitions) 4. The lead time into the V-t Table is minimized =20 What we don't know is if there is recommended ratio between the time that the curve is transitioning from high to low (or low to high) versus the time that the curve is at its final DC value? For instance, I am recommending the approximate relationship of 1/3 to the time in transition and 2/3 of the time at a final stabilized DC value for the worst case curve (between the rising and falling curves).=20 =20 Any thoughts?=20 =20 =20 Best Regards, =20 Bonnie Baker Sr. Applications Engineer Texas Instruments, Tucson =20 5411 E. Williams Tucson, Arizona 85711 =20 (520) 750-2116 (work) (520) 548-3111 (cell) =20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAFD2A.144D5362 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The IBIS Quality Specification has rules related to this:

 

5.4.2. {LEVEL 2} V-T tables have reasonable point distribution

V-T tables should be well behaved, with continuous second derivative. V-T point density should be

sufficient in areas with non-zero second derivative. For example, a low to high state transition

should have at least 10 points.

This check is easily accomplished by viewing the curves and checking visually.

 

5.4.3. {LEVEL 3} V-T table duration is not excessive

To avoid the "over clocking" issue, excess V-T points may be removed= to match the V-T duration

corresponding to the maximum data rate or frequency at which the device is expected to operate.

When removing trailing V-T points the final DC value must be achieved, i.e., the ending slope

should be very small. Since the two sets of V-T tables describe the relative on and off switching

delay between the pullup and pulldown transistors, relative time position between= all tables with

the same edge direction and corner must be maintained when removing the leading excess V-T

points. The number of excess V-T points removed can be different between corners (i= .e., Typical,

Minimum and Maximum) but it is recommended to explain the difference as comments of= the IBIS

file.=

 

5.4.4. {LEVEL 2} V-T table endpoints match fixture voltages

If the V_fixture values equal the supply reference voltages for the [Pullup] or [Pulldown] tables,

then either the starting or ending points of the V-T tables are expected to equal these V_fixture

values. This applies to full swing technologies such as CMOS, and not to technologi= es such as

TTL, PECL, LVDS, or SERDES driver, which do not necessarily swing rail to rail. = This check

does not apply in cases where internal pullups/pulldowns or bias conditions exist such that the

combined I-V tables have current flows at the V_fixture voltages.<= /p>

For example for a 3.3 V device with the [Voltage Range] set to 3.3 V, V_fixture= =3D 3.3 V, and

R_fixture =3D 50 ohms, the [Rising Waveform] table should end at 3.3 V, and the [Fall= ing

Waveform] table = should begin at 3.3 V.

 

However, numeric limits are not given.  I have been usi= ng 50% as the minimum portion of a V-T curve that the edge transition should f= ill, where the beginning and end of a transition is based on a 20mV/s dV/dt threshold. I use an overall Ttransition/Ttotal metric instead of limiting leading and trailing times separately. Now and then I get curves slightly u= nder 50% on perfectly reasonable models, so 1/3 may be a good rule too.

 

The 10 points minimum in the transition rule is slightly more troublesome, as many models fall short or barely have that many. I’m using the same 20mV/s threshold to define the beginning and end of the transition, and I generously count one point before and one after the transition. Quite a few models still don’t have 10.  I think edge times are getting smaller faster than we are reducing our IBIS waveform generation parameters.

 

If the formatting of the IQ rules above is a problem see http://w= ww.eda.org/ibis/quality_ver2.0/quality_ver2_0.pdf

 

Mike LaBonte

 

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of = Baker, Bonnie
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:40 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] V-t graphs look for IBIS models

 

Durin= g the QC review of our IBIS models, we had a short discussion about the basic format= of the V-t graphics. There are a few things that we know

  1. The curves should not end too soon, meaning that they have not finished settling to their final DC value.
  2. The end points should be consistent with the IV curves.
  3. There are more points where the slope in changing (at least 10 points during the transitions)
  4. The lead time into the V-t Table is minimized

=  

What = we don’t know is if there is recommended ratio between the time that the curve is transitioning from high to low (or low to high) versus the time th= at the curve is at its final DC value? For instance, I am recommending the approximate relationship of 1/3 to the time in transition and 2/3 of the ti= me at a final stabilized DC value for the worst case curve (between the rising= and falling curves).

=  

Any t= houghts?

=  

=  

Best = Regards,

 

Bonni= e Baker

Sr. Applications Engineer

Texas Instruments, Tucson

 

5411 = E. Williams

Tucso= n, Arizona   85711

 

(520) 750-2116 (work)

(520) 548-3111 (cell)

 


- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanne= r, and is
believed to be clean.


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAFD2A.144D5362-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:33:32 +0800 From: Jason Ma Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue Hi Syed, Thanks. I think you have noticed that there are some abnormal data in the put.out file. I also listed below: 20 -0.999999999999998 4.98199344324096 21 -0.799999999999998 4.12877792596131 22 -0.599999999999998 4.01970481456261 23 -0.399999999999998 4.01940828279669 24 -0.199999999999998 4.02194525365832 So I am mentioning that there may something wrong. Actually I can correct these data manually. Do you know any tool to read these output file and gather the data in to a ibis file? Best regards, Jason Syed Huq (huqs) wrote: > Hi Jason, > Your attached put6.out file is a function of how you setup the .s2i file > as well as your spice input files. > The s2ibis2 tool is simply running a spice simulation of your input file > and producing the output as you see. > So the problem needs to be debugged. > > For example, > Look at your put6.spi file and check if that is correct. > For a sanity check, run HSPICE on this file and compare the output to > your put6.out > > If you are not familiar with the translation method, look under the > /example folder of the installation of s2ibis2 and run those first. > > -Syed > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On > Behalf Of Jason Ma > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:57 PM > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue > > Dear Sir/Madam, > > I am a design engineer working for ADI. I am having a problem when I am > trying to generate an IBIS model with s2ibis2. > After run s2ibis2, I read the *.out data and found some abnormal data > included, please refer to the attachment. So using the ibischk3 for the > generated ibis model, it showed a lot of error messages. Could you help > to look at this problem? It will be good if we can generate the output > file without abnormal data. In another way, I can correct the abnormal > data manually, and could we use something to put the output file > together for the ibis model file (*.ibs)? Thanks a million. > > Best regards, > Jason > > ************************************************************************ > ****** > > > S2IBIS2 VERSION NUMBER: s2ibis2.linux v1.1 > > PLATFORM (SPARC, HP700, PC, etc.): A Sun Fire X4100 Server, x86_64 > > OS AND VERSION: Linux 2.6.9-89.0.9.ELsmp #1 SMP > > REPORTED BY: Jason > > DATE: May 26, 2010 > > DESCRIPTION OF BUG: > > the output file (*.out) contained some abnormal data, and the generated > ibis file (*.ibs) showed some error messages. > > INSERT FILE DEMONSTRATING THE BUG: > > put.out > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 13:23:04 -0500 From: "Mike LaBonte (milabont)" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] problems about extracting IV curves from SPICE model This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAF780.53C9C84C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yuancheng, =20 In general it sounds like you are using the right method. I would recommend performing a simple waveform test into an R load to make sure that all inputs to your SPICE buffer model are set correctly. Compare that with the same fixture in IBIS. =20 A less likely problem is that your SPICE buffer model does not work well when it's output node is forced to some voltage. If that is the case, sometimes adding a small value series resistor between the pad and the forcing voltage supply will help. It is then necessary to use the actual voltage at the pad instead of the forcing voltage for calculations. =20 Mike =20 From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of ji xiao Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:18 AM To: ibis-users Subject: [IBIS-Users] problems about extracting IV curves from SPICE model =20 Hi, everyone. For my research purpose, I want to extract IV data (pullup, pulldown, etc.) from the SPICE model of inverter 74lvc04a, and the result is supposed to be similar to the IBIS IV table. However, for my case, there is a large difference (around 10 times smaller than the IV table in IBIS file) although the whole curve trend looks similar. And it exists for all IV curves. For my circuit connection, let's take pulldown curve as an example, I give corresponding Vdd voltage source to power suply, ground input and connect the output to a variable voltage source (V1) and use a current probe to measure the output current(I1) at the output port. I plot the IV curve I1 vs. V1 and treat it as the pulldown curve. No floating voltage source in the circuit. Can anyone tell me what's wrong with my connection? =20 Thanks and regards, Yuancheng =20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAF780.53C9C84C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yuancheng,

 

In general it sounds like you are using the right method. I would recommend performing a simple waveform test into an R load to make su= re that all inputs to your SPICE buffer model are set correctly. Compare that = with the same fixture in IBIS.

 

A less likely problem is that your SPICE buffer model does n= ot work well when it’s output node is forced to some voltage. If that is= the case, sometimes adding a small value series resistor between the pad and the forcing voltage supply will help. It is then necessary to use the actual voltage at the pad instead of the forcing voltage for calculations.

 

Mike

 

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of = ji xiao
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:18 AM
To: ibis-users
Subject: [IBIS-Users] problems about extracting IV curves from SPICE model

 

Hi, everyone.

For my research purpose, I want to extract IV data (pullup, pulldown, etc.) from the SPICE model of inverter 74lvc04a, and the result is supposed to be similar to the IBIS IV table. However, for my case, there is a large difference (around 10 times smaller than the IV table in I= BIS file) although the whole curve trend looks similar. And it exists for all IV curves.

For my circuit connection, let's take pulldown curve a= s an example, I give corresponding Vdd voltage source to power suply, ground input and connect the output to a variable voltage source (V1) and use a current probe to measure the output current(I1) at the output port. I plot = the IV curve I1 vs. V1 and treat it as the pulldown curve. No floating voltage source in the circuit.

Can anyone tell me what's wrong with my connectio= n?

 

Thanks and regards,

Yuancheng

 


- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean.


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAF780.53C9C84C-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 10:32:20 -0400 From: "Lance Wang" Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Summit Second Call of Papers - DAC June15th, 2010, Anaheim CA All: This is the second announcement for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled along with the Design Automation Conference in Anaheim, California on June 15, 2010. Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. www.iometh.com - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT SECOND CALL FOR PARTICIPATION & PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: Tuesday June 15, 2010, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM Location: Anaheim Marriott (Hotel Correction) 777 Convention Way, Anaheim, California 92802 Tel: 1-714-750-4321 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: IBIS Open Forum If your company would be interested in sponsoring this event, please contact Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) Sponsorship is available for the room, lunch, and coffee breaks. DAC: June 13 - 18, 2010 Anaheim Convention Center Anaheim, California FREE Exhibit Pass on Monday, June 14, 2010 See for more information. BACKGROUND The Design Automation Conference (DAC) is the premier Electronic Design Automation (EDA) and silicon solution event. Several vendors active in the IBIS Open Forum attend DAC. This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations are expected to be available and archived in an electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the meeting. The annual election of officers will be held. Nominations can be sent to Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) or made at the meeting. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Deadline, June 10, 2010. Send to: Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Format of Presentation: LCD Projection with Windows laptop. Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. Electronic presentations should be made available by June 7, 2010 for uploading and copying to the presentation laptop. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, breaks, and a luncheon (which will be provided). This will be developed as presentation proposals are received. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS See (http://www.dac.com/) for travel directions, hotels and other information or use other search engines. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:43:25 -0700 From: Bob Ross Subject: [IBIS-Users] DAC IBIS Summit - Revised Agenda - June 15, 2010 All: For IBIS Summit Participants, below is a revised Agenda with a new presentation and some adjusted time slots. See you at the meeting. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------ AGENDA, IBIS SUMMIT MEETING June 15, 2010 Hilton Anaheim Hotel Anaheim, CA 92802 Room San Simeon A (check signs at site) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ 8:00 AM Refreshments & Sign In 8:30 AM Introductions - Welcome to Summit - Introductions - Opens for Issues, Discussion Topics 8:45 AM IBIS Open Forum Review Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group 9:05 AM Correlation Update Anders Ekholm* and Mike LaBonte**, *Ericsson and **Cisco Systems 9:30 AM Simple ODT Extraction Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group 10:00 AM BREAK 10:15 AM IBIS-AMI Update Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corporation 10:30 AM Model Versus Measurement Correlation Report Jose Luis Pino*, Amolak Badesha*, Manuel Luschas**, and Antonis Orphanou**, **Agilent Technologies and **NetLogic Microelectronics 11:00 AM Conditional Expressions in IBIS-AMI Adge Hawes, IBM 11:30 AM Election of Officers 12:00 PM LUNCH - Pre-registration required 1:00 PM Statistical Coverage in SI System Simulations and Implications for Models Michael Mirmak, Intel Corporation 2:00 PM Predicting Low BER Probabilities Arpad Muranyi and Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov, Mentor Graphics Corporation (Presented by Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corporation) 2:30 PM BREAK 2:45 PM Best Practices for Developing IBIS-AMI Models Walter Katz, Michael Steinberger, and Todd Westerhoff, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft) 3:15 PM Opens/Discussion and Ad Hoc Presentations 4:55 PM Concluding Items - Next Meeting - July 9, 2010 - Next Summits in Asia 5:00 PM End of IBIS Summit Meeting - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ REGISTRATION People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Please send registrations to lwang@iometh.com. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 17:40:06 -0500 From: "Baker, Bonnie" Subject: [IBIS-Users] V-t graphs look for IBIS models - --_000_9863FC115479184193CC60C8C2F26B10132103611Edlee04enttico_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable During the QC review of our IBIS models, we had a short discussion about th= e basic format of the V-t graphics. There are a few things that we know 1. The curves should not end too soon, meaning that they have not finishe= d settling to their final DC value. 2. The end points should be consistent with the IV curves. 3. There are more points where the slope in changing (at least 10 points = during the transitions) 4. The lead time into the V-t Table is minimized What we don't know is if there is recommended ratio between the time that t= he curve is transitioning from high to low (or low to high) versus the time= that the curve is at its final DC value? For instance, I am recommending t= he approximate relationship of 1/3 to the time in transition and 2/3 of the= time at a final stabilized DC value for the worst case curve (between the = rising and falling curves). Any thoughts? Best Regards, Bonnie Baker Sr. Applications Engineer Texas Instruments, Tucson 5411 E. Williams Tucson, Arizona 85711 (520) 750-2116 (work) (520) 548-3111 (cell) - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_9863FC115479184193CC60C8C2F26B10132103611Edlee04enttico_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

During the QC review of our IBIS models, we had a short discussion about the basic format of the V-t graphics. There are a few thin= gs that we know

  1. The curves should not end= too soon, meaning that they have not finished settling to their final DC v= alue.
  2. The end points should be consistent with the IV curves.
  3. There are more points whe= re the slope in changing (at least 10 points during the transitions)
  4. The lead time into the V-t Table is minimized

 

What we don’t know is if there is recommended ratio between the time that the curve is transitioning from high to low (or low to high) versus the time that the curve is at its final DC value? For instance= , I am recommending the approximate relationship of 1/3 to the time in transiti= on and 2/3 of the time at a final stabilized DC value for the worst case curve (between the rising and falling curves).

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Bonnie Baker

Sr. Applications Engineer

Texas Instruments, Tucson

 

5411 E. Williams

Tucson, Ar= izona   85711

 

(520) 750-2116 (work)

(520) 548-3111 (cell)

 


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --_000_9863FC115479184193CC60C8C2F26B10132103611Edlee04enttico_-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:01:10 -0700 From: "Syed Huq (huqs)" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Composite Current and ISOO - Is it really enable accurate SSN ? Hi Sergey, I am not aware of any EDA tools that have implemented these new features of 5.0. As an end user of IBIS, the expectation would be that tools that support these keywords could be used to test out models generated by the model developers. If any EDA tools does support these, pls speak up. Tks Syed - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Nikonchuk Sergey-R6294C Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 7:36 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Composite Current and ISOO - Is it really enable accurate SSN ? Hi All, A time ago was several presentations, IEEE articles related to improvement of IBIS models to enable Accurate Power Integrity modeling. As a results, two new kewords were introduced in IBIS 5.0 standard - Composite Current and ISSO_PU/PD. Since that - I didn't find any presentation and/or article that proove new approach And confirm accuracy level of simulation with new data. As well, I don't know any IBIS simulator that really support these keyword. Does it mean that new keyword does not provide real advantage as was expected? Can anybody share some simulation results with new keywords? -- Or Point me on IBIS simulator that support it? -- Or Simulation Models Implementation that support new data? Feel free to e-mail me directly if there is some concerns with information distribution in this mail list. Any information, comments would be highly appreciated. Thanks, Sergey. Sergey.Nikonchuk@freescale.com - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 21:25:27 -0700 From: "Syed Huq (huqs)" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue Hi Jason, Your attached put6.out file is a function of how you setup the .s2i file as well as your spice input files. The s2ibis2 tool is simply running a spice simulation of your input file and producing the output as you see. So the problem needs to be debugged. For example, Look at your put6.spi file and check if that is correct. For a sanity check, run HSPICE on this file and compare the output to your put6.out If you are not familiar with the translation method, look under the /example folder of the installation of s2ibis2 and run those first. - -Syed - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Jason Ma Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:57 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue Dear Sir/Madam, I am a design engineer working for ADI. I am having a problem when I am trying to generate an IBIS model with s2ibis2. After run s2ibis2, I read the *.out data and found some abnormal data included, please refer to the attachment. So using the ibischk3 for the generated ibis model, it showed a lot of error messages. Could you help to look at this problem? It will be good if we can generate the output file without abnormal data. In another way, I can correct the abnormal data manually, and could we use something to put the output file together for the ibis model file (*.ibs)? Thanks a million. Best regards, Jason ************************************************************************ ****** S2IBIS2 VERSION NUMBER: s2ibis2.linux v1.1 PLATFORM (SPARC, HP700, PC, etc.): A Sun Fire X4100 Server, x86_64 OS AND VERSION: Linux 2.6.9-89.0.9.ELsmp #1 SMP REPORTED BY: Jason DATE: May 26, 2010 DESCRIPTION OF BUG: the output file (*.out) contained some abnormal data, and the generated ibis file (*.ibs) showed some error messages. INSERT FILE DEMONSTRATING THE BUG: put.out - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 15:45:40 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] V-t graphs look for IBIS models This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAFD25.2C008FC3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bonnie, =20 You do not need such a recommendation. The transitioning portion of a V-t curve can take over 90% of the total length of the V-t curve. The only thing that is a good thing to have is that the last two points on either end of the curve should be horizontal. I.e. the waveforms should start and finish settled... =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Baker, Bonnie Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:40 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] V-t graphs look for IBIS models During the QC review of our IBIS models, we had a short discussion about the basic format of the V-t graphics. There are a few things that we know=20 1. The curves should not end too soon, meaning that they have not finished settling to their final DC value.=20 2. The end points should be consistent with the IV curves.=20 3. There are more points where the slope in changing (at least 10 points during the transitions)=20 4. The lead time into the V-t Table is minimized=20 =20 What we don't know is if there is recommended ratio between the time that the curve is transitioning from high to low (or low to high) versus the time that the curve is at its final DC value? For instance, I am recommending the approximate relationship of 1/3 to the time in transition and 2/3 of the time at a final stabilized DC value for the worst case curve (between the rising and falling curves).=20 =20 Any thoughts?=20 =20 =20 Best Regards, =20 Bonnie Baker Sr. Applications Engineer Texas Instruments, Tucson =20 5411 E. Williams Tucson, Arizona 85711 =20 (520) 750-2116 (work) (520) 548-3111 (cell) =20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAFD25.2C008FC3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bonnie,
 
You do not need such a recommendation.  The=20 transitioning
portion of a V-t curve can take over 90% of the=20 total
length of the V-t curve.  The only thing that is = a=20 good
thing to have is that the last two points on either=20 end
of the curve should be horizontal. I.e. the=20 waveforms
should start and finish settled...
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Baker,=20 Bonnie
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:40 PM
To:=20 ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] V-t graphs look for IBIS= =20 models

During the QC review of our I= BIS=20 models, we had a short discussion about the basic format of the V-t graphic= s.=20 There are a few things that we know

  1. The curv= es should=20 not end too soon, meaning that they have not finished settling to their f= inal=20 DC value.
  2. The end = points=20 should be consistent with the IV curves.=20
  3. There ar= e more=20 points where the slope in changing (at least 10 points during the=20 transitions)=20
  4. The lead= time=20 into the V-t Table is minimized

 

What we don’t know is i= f there is=20 recommended ratio between the time that the curve is transitioning from hig= h to=20 low (or low to high) versus the time that the curve is at its final DC valu= e?=20 For instance, I am recommending the approximate relationship of 1/3 to the = time=20 in transition and 2/3 of the time at a final stabilized DC value for the wo= rst=20 case curve (between the rising and falling curves).=20

 

Any thoughts?=20

 

 

Best=20 Regards,

 

Bonnie=20 Baker

Sr. Applications=20 Engineer

Texas Instruments, Tucson

 

5411 E.=20 Williams

Tucson, Arizona   85711

 

(520) 750-2116=20 (work)

(520) 548-3111=20 (cell)

 


-- <= BR>This=20 message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAFD25.2C008FC3-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:08:51 +0800 From: Jason Ma Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue - --------------020105080009060407000709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes that I get all the files needed to produce a .ibs file. It seemed at the point when gathering the data into the final .ibs file, something got wrong. So I am asking for if any standalone tool to put all output file into the standard ibs file. Thanks. Best regards, Jason Syed Huq (huqs) wrote: > The data format issue is a known problem but usually after the IBIS file > is complied, you can edit out repeat data. I would not recommend doing > this manually. > > The tool should simulate all the Typ, Min and Max conditions and then > produce a .ibs file. Do you get to that point ? If yes, then you can > edit the final .ibs file and get rid of garbage data usually at the end > of each V/I tables. > > Your other choice is to try the s2ibis3 also available from the IBIS > site under: > http://www.eda.org/ibis/home/tools/tools.htm > > There are also commercial tools available to do this job. Don't ask me > since I won't recommend any. > > -syed > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Ma [mailto:Jason.Ma@analog.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:34 PM > To: Syed Huq (huqs) > Cc: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue > > Hi Syed, > > Thanks. I think you have noticed that there are some abnormal data in > the put.out > file. I also listed below: > > 20 -0.999999999999998 4.98199344324096 > 21 -0.799999999999998 4.12877792596131 > 22 -0.599999999999998 4.01970481456261 > 23 -0.399999999999998 4.01940828279669 > 24 -0.199999999999998 4.02194525365832 > > So I am mentioning that there may something wrong. Actually I can > correct these data > manually. Do you know any tool to read these output file and gather the > data in to a ibis > file? > > Best regards, > Jason > > Syed Huq (huqs) wrote: > >> Hi Jason, >> Your attached put6.out file is a function of how you setup the .s2i >> > file > >> as well as your spice input files. >> The s2ibis2 tool is simply running a spice simulation of your input >> > file > >> and producing the output as you see. >> So the problem needs to be debugged. >> >> For example, >> Look at your put6.spi file and check if that is correct. >> For a sanity check, run HSPICE on this file and compare the output to >> your put6.out >> >> If you are not familiar with the translation method, look under the >> /example folder of the installation of s2ibis2 and run those first. >> >> -Syed >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On >> Behalf Of Jason Ma >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:57 PM >> To: ibis-users@eda.org >> Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue >> >> Dear Sir/Madam, >> >> I am a design engineer working for ADI. I am having a problem when I >> > am > >> trying to generate an IBIS model with s2ibis2. >> After run s2ibis2, I read the *.out data and found some abnormal data >> included, please refer to the attachment. So using the ibischk3 for >> > the > >> generated ibis model, it showed a lot of error messages. Could you >> > help > >> to look at this problem? It will be good if we can generate the output >> file without abnormal data. In another way, I can correct the abnormal >> data manually, and could we use something to put the output file >> together for the ibis model file (*.ibs)? Thanks a million. >> >> Best regards, >> Jason >> >> >> > ************************************************************************ > >> ****** >> >> >> S2IBIS2 VERSION NUMBER: s2ibis2.linux v1.1 >> >> PLATFORM (SPARC, HP700, PC, etc.): A Sun Fire X4100 Server, x86_64 >> >> OS AND VERSION: Linux 2.6.9-89.0.9.ELsmp #1 SMP >> >> REPORTED BY: Jason >> >> DATE: May 26, 2010 >> >> DESCRIPTION OF BUG: >> >> the output file (*.out) contained some abnormal data, and the >> > generated > >> ibis file (*.ibs) showed some error messages. >> >> INSERT FILE DEMONSTRATING THE BUG: >> >> put.out >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by >> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. >> >> >> >> > > > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --------------020105080009060407000709 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes that I get all the files needed to produce a .ibs file. It seemed at the point when gathering
the data into the final .ibs file, something got wrong. So I am asking for if any standalone tool
to put all output file into the standard ibs file. Thanks.

Best regards,
Jason

Syed Huq (huqs) wrote: 
The data format issue is a known problem but usually after the IBIS file
is complied, you can edit out repeat data. I would not recommend doing
this manually.

The tool should simulate all the Typ, Min and Max conditions and then
produce a .ibs file. Do you get to that point ? If yes, then you can
edit the final .ibs file and get rid of garbage data usually at the end
of each V/I tables.

Your other choice is to try the s2ibis3 also available from the IBIS
site under:
http://www.eda.org/ibis/home/tools/tools.htm	

There are also commercial tools available to do this job. Don't ask me
since I won't recommend any.

- -syed

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jason Ma [mailto:Jason.Ma@analog.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:34 PM
To: Syed Huq (huqs)
Cc: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue

Hi Syed,

Thanks. I think you have noticed that there are some abnormal data in 
the put.out
file.  I also listed below:

 20    -0.999999999999998    4.98199344324096
 21    -0.799999999999998    4.12877792596131
 22    -0.599999999999998    4.01970481456261
 23    -0.399999999999998    4.01940828279669
 24    -0.199999999999998    4.02194525365832

So I am mentioning that there may something wrong. Actually I can 
correct these data
manually. Do you know any tool to read these output file and gather the 
data in to a ibis
file?

Best regards,
Jason

Syed Huq (huqs) wrote:
  
Hi Jason,
Your attached put6.out file is a function of how you setup the .s2i
    
file
  
as well as your spice input files.
The s2ibis2 tool is simply running a spice simulation of your input
    
file
  
and producing the output as you see.
So the problem needs to be debugged.

For example,
Look at your put6.spi file and check if that is correct.
For a sanity check, run HSPICE on this file and compare the output to
your put6.out

If you are not familiar with the translation method, look under the
/example folder of the installation of s2ibis2 and run those first.

- -Syed

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Ma
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:57 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] s2ibis2 issue

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am a design engineer working for ADI. I am having a problem when I
    
am
  
trying to generate an IBIS model with s2ibis2.
After run s2ibis2, I read the *.out data and found some abnormal data
included, please refer to the attachment. So using the ibischk3 for
    
the
  
generated ibis model, it showed a lot of error messages. Could you
    
help
  
to look at this problem? It will be good if we can generate the output
file without abnormal data. In another way, I can correct the abnormal
data manually, and could we use something to put the output file
together for the ibis model file (*.ibs)? Thanks a million.

Best regards,
Jason


    
************************************************************************
  
****** 


S2IBIS2 VERSION NUMBER: s2ibis2.linux v1.1

PLATFORM (SPARC, HP700, PC, etc.): A Sun Fire X4100 Server, x86_64

OS AND VERSION: Linux 2.6.9-89.0.9.ELsmp #1 SMP

REPORTED BY: Jason

DATE: May 26, 2010

DESCRIPTION OF BUG:

the output file (*.out) contained some abnormal data, and the
    
generated
  
ibis file (*.ibs) showed some error messages.

INSERT FILE DEMONSTRATING THE BUG:

put.out

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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - --------------020105080009060407000709-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:44:57 -0400 From: Eric Monteiro Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS DIFF input buffers Hello Everyone I need a little validation/clarification. I have a differential input IBIS model, however my IBIS simulator is so out of date that it does not recognize the Series Keywords. So instead what I did was remove the series maping, and placed 2 single ended buffers with a resitor whos value equalled that in the Series R definition: i.e. - ------------|BUFFER| | Z Z | - ------------|BUFFER| My understanding is that the Diff buffer in IBIS DC tables should be the COMMON mode current into ONE of the diffential pins (i.e. I assume its not the sum of the current into the 2 pins, or 2 times the current I think it is). Based on that, the above should be valid. Can anyone confirm? Cheers, Eric This communication contains confidential information intended only for the addressee(s). If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete this communication from your mail box. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 07:03:28 -0600 From: Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: AMI Cable EQ using QFB/AGC Hi Eric, I'm wondering if you'd consider an alternate to hand coding in C? Specifically, our ESL tool (SystemVue) can automatically generate such blocks of C code and an AMI wrapper for you. If this approach might be of interest, here is a point of contact for further info/discussion: http://www.agilent.com/find/eesof-ami-model-gen Best regards, - -- Colin Warwick High Speed Digital Design Flow Manager, Agilent EEsof EDA Blog http://signal-integrity.tm.agilent.com Information Exchange for IBIS Model Users http://www.ibis-user.org - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Eric Monteiro Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 11:14 AM To: si-list@freelists.org; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] AMI Cable EQ using QFB/AGC Hello Everyone I was wondering if anyone out there has implemented (or tied to) an IBIS AMI model of an AGC feedback loop. If so (and you are willing to share), I am having some speed issues that I could use help solving. In short, does anyone have experience using fft sample by sample using internal states(e.g. choosing how many samples to track)? I.e. similar to how veriloga does it. Note: I am doing this in C, not Matlab. Details: Right now my loop updates the AGC coeffients ( 3 to be exact, for 3 EQ stages ) 1 per sample (maybe I should do once per bit?). This means that the 2nd and 3rd stage inputs change if the 1st AGC coeff changes, meaning I have to revaluate the outputs of the 2nd and 3rd linear stages using fft in AMI GetWave instead of AMI init. To help speed this up, I am opting for convolution for simple low pass filters, however I still need the fft for the linear EQ. Source for any fucntion is avaible at any time for review or re-use (though I wouldn't ever consider myself a software engineer). Best Regards, Eric - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:22:42 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Mismatch between ibischk and load lines This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB2F6C.900CE59B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peggy, =20 It is difficult to guess what you may be doing wrong without more detail about your buffer. For example, does it have on die termination, how did you generate the clamp curves (is there any double counting in them), etc... =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Alavi, Peggy Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:52 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda-stds.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Mismatch between ibischk and load lines Hello, =20 I am working on an IBIS Model and the golden parser (I have used 4.1, 4.2, and 5.0 and my model is IBIS 4.2) gives me errors (on the high side - - pull up curve) on one of my outputs. I have independently verified the load line and where it crosses the PD and PU curves, and the crossing exactly matches my transient end values, and does not match what the parser is claiming the crossings are. What could I be doing wrong? =20 Best, =20 - -Peggy =20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB2F6C.900CE59B Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Peggy,
 
It is difficult to guess what you may be doing= =20 wrong
without more detail about your buffer.  For= =20 example,
does it have on die termination, how did you=20 generate
the clamp curves (is there any double counting i= n=20 them),
etc...
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Alavi,=20 Peggy
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:52 PM
To:=20 ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda-stds.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Misma= tch=20 between ibischk and load lines

H= ello,

<= o:p> 

I= am=20 working on an IBIS Model and the golden parser (I have used 4.1, 4.2, and 5= .0=20 and my model is IBIS 4.2) gives me errors (on the high side – pull up= curve) on=20 one of my outputs. I have independently verified the load line and where it= =20 crosses the PD and PU curves, and the crossing exactly matches my transient= end=20 values, and does not match what the parser is claiming the crossings are. W= hat=20 could I be doing wrong?

<= o:p> 

B= est,

<= o:p> 

-= Peggy

<= o:p> 


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by = MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB2F6C.900CE59B-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ End of ibis-users V1 #144 *************************