From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #145 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Precedence: bulk ibis-users Thursday, August 26 2010 Volume 01 : Number 145 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:45:49 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves Scott, Actually IBIS v5.0 does have a few new features which attempt to give ways to modeling those effects. They may not be perfect, but do allow some amount of modeling them. Also, if the "built-in" keywords are not sufficient, one can always make use of the *-AMS languages... (I know this is a red herring to some, but it is there, and I see more and more simulators come out with at least Verilog-A capabilities, which is one of those languages in IBIS). But the problem is that the behavioral modeling of the intricate details of edge rate degradation and gate modulation effects due to power noise is very difficult. There are lots of interrelated interactions between the various stages of the buffer through the parasitic capacitances (including Mr. Miller) which makes it very difficult to write a behavioral model that includes all these effects especially during transitions. Arpad ==================================================================== - -----Original Message----- From: Scott McMorrow [mailto:scott@teraspeed.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:33 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad Cc: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves Arpad I agree with you on input edge rate to a buffer. Most devices have extremely fast input rise/fall time into the predriver, since loading is so low at this point in the circuit. What is more important for IBIS buffer modeling is the predriver voltage rail. Unfortunately, in IBIS there is no way to correctly model predriver power supply voltage modulation effects, which are very real under SSO conditions. regards, Scott Scott McMorrow Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 121 North River Drive Narragansett, RI 02882 (401) 284-1827 Business (401) 284-1840 Fax http://www.teraspeed.com Teraspeed(r) is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC On 8/25/2010 1:26 PM, Muranyi, Arpad wrote: > Andy, > > Regarding your comments on the transistor models, while it is > a reasonable concept, it usually doesn't matter. I verified > this by sweeping the stimulus edge rate from very fast to very > slow, and overlaid the output waveforms, and didn't see any > difference, other than a time shift due to the input stimulus > reaching the threshold levels increasingly later with the slower > slopes. This can be explained by the fact that most transistor > buffer models have multiple stages in them, and the final stage > is so far removed from the first stage that its waveform is > only determined by the transistor sizing relationships between > the stages, but not by the stimulus waveform. > > Your reasoning would only be true when the transistor model > doesn't have any pre-driver stage(s), or very few of them. But > I would strongly advise against using such transistor models > for IBIS data extractions, because if the output waveform is > a factor of the stimulus, then the model maker can end up making > all kinds of incorrect IBIS models if they don't know what the > waveform looks like on the core side of this model. > > Regarding the stimulus to the B-element (or the like), it is true > that in terms of its operation it doesn't matter what the edge > rate is, the output waveform will still be the same. But you > need to consider that due to the slow stimulus waveforms you will > get a certain delay in the transition. This can cause complications > if the user forgets that the stimulus supposed to be a 0-1 volt > waveform, and the thresholds are set to 0.2 and 0.8 if I remember > correctly. I have seen many times people applying a source to the > input of the B-element with a voltage swing that used the supply > voltage value of the buffer, for example 0 to 3.3 volts. With a > slow stimulus edge rate, the rising edge will trigger sooner than > the falling edge very noticeably. (In other words you get duty > cycle distortions from the IBIS model while the transistor model > didn't do that). > > Even if this was handled properly by the user, similar shifting > could occur due to the different stimulus edge rates between the > transistor and IBIS buffer stimuli. I had people often show me > "discrepancies" between the transistor waveforms and the IBIS > waveforms which were due to that, and they had no clue why the > IBIS and transistor waveforms were shifted apart in time. > > These are the reasons I am suggesting the use of fast edge rates... > > Arpad > =================================================================== > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On > Behalf Of Andrew Ingraham > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:14 AM > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves > > I disagree that the edge should be "as fast as possible". > > For the IBIS models used in HSPICE, my recollection is that HSPICE > treats it as a switch, waiting until the (digital) input waveform > crosses a threshold, then switching the IBIS model. The edge rate of > that digital stimulus waveform therefore shouldn't matter ... except > that very slow edge rate causes a known time delay before the IBIS > modeled device switches, and extremely fast edge rates might make the > simulation run slow or lead to convergence problems. Theoretically > it's good to make it fast so that it works like an instantaneous > binary switch, but there could be practical problems if you try to do > that. > > For the transistor (SPICE) models, ideally you should attempt to match > the actual waveform (edge rate and amplitude) that is at that point > inside the IC, NOT the "fastest possible edge rate". Hopefully that > is what the IBIS modeler did too. Using a faster edge rate than what > those transistors normally see, makes it unrealistic. > > Andy > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:41:39 +0800 From: Amit KUMAR Subject: [IBIS-Users] Parser for verifying syntax of .EBD file - --_000_D5ECB3C7A6F99444980976A8C6D89638163F08C31EEAPEX1MAIL1st_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, Do we have any parser which can check the syntax of .ebd file? Regards Amit - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_D5ECB3C7A6F99444980976A8C6D89638163F08C31EEAPEX1MAIL1st_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Hello All,

 =

Do we have any parser wh= ich can check the syntax of .ebd file?

 =

Regards

Amit

 =


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --_000_D5ECB3C7A6F99444980976A8C6D89638163F08C31EEAPEX1MAIL1st_-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:13:42 -0400 From: Andrew Ingraham Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves I disagree that the edge should be "as fast as possible". For the IBIS models used in HSPICE, my recollection is that HSPICE treats it as a switch, waiting until the (digital) input waveform crosses a threshold, then switching the IBIS model. The edge rate of that digital stimulus waveform therefore shouldn't matter ... except that very slow edge rate causes a known time delay before the IBIS modeled device switches, and extremely fast edge rates might make the simulation run slow or lead to convergence problems. Theoretically it's good to make it fast so that it works like an instantaneous binary switch, but there could be practical problems if you try to do that. For the transistor (SPICE) models, ideally you should attempt to match the actual waveform (edge rate and amplitude) that is at that point inside the IC, NOT the "fastest possible edge rate". Hopefully that is what the IBIS modeler did too. Using a faster edge rate than what those transistors normally see, makes it unrealistic. Andy - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 18:54:20 +0530 From: Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ramp calculation in O/P, Tri-state, I/O, buffer ibis model This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3246.05C58C27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, I had a query regarding the ramp calculation done in ibis file. Why is it that we consider the falling waveform w.r.t Vfix=3Dvdd and rising waveform w.r.t Vfix=3D0 tables instead of the other two tables while calculating Ramp? Regards Suraj Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary.=20 The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to= this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and ma= y contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are n= ot the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy t= his e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of = this message and any attachments.=20 WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient shoul= d check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The com= pany accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by= this email.=20 www.wipro.com - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3246.05C58C27 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,

 

 I had a query regarding the ramp calculation done = in ibis file. Why is it that we consider the falling waveform w.r.t Vfix=3Dvdd and = rising waveform w.r.t Vfix=3D0 tables instead of the other two tables while calcul= ating Ramp?

 

Regards

Suraj

Please do not print this email un= less it is absolutely necessary.

The information contained in this electronic message and any attachment= s to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) an= d may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you a= re not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or co= py this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies= of this message and any attachments.

WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient sh= ould check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The = company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted= by this email.

www.wipro.com


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3246.05C58C27-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:26:47 +0200 From: "Lenski, Eckhard (NSN - DE/Munich)" Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: [IBIS] Mismatch between ibischk and load lines This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB2FB8.925A9CE1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Peggy, =20 as Arpad pointed out, there might be many reason that causes the ibischeck = message. =20 but please be aware, that the checker is using the sum of the static curves= . =20 so for High : [pullup] + [gnd clamp] + [power clamp] and for Low : [pulldown] + [gnd clamp] + [power clamp] =20 =20 regards Eckhard Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen / Best regards / Cordiali saluti / yst=E4v=E4ll= isin terveisin=20 Eckhard Lenski=20 Nokia Siemens Networks GmbH & Co. KG=20 NWS EP CP HW RD CAD libraries=20 Balanstr. 59=20 80240 M=FCnchen=20 Germany=20 phone : +49 89 5159 17080=20 email: eckhard.lenski@nsn.com=20 http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com/ibis=20 Nokia Siemens Networks GmbH & Co. KG=20 Sitz der Gesellschaft: M=FCnchen / Registered office: Munich=20 Registergericht: M=FCnchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRA 88537=20 WEEE-Reg.-Nr.: DE 52984304=20 Pers=F6nlich haftende Gesellschafterin / General Partner: Nokia Siemens Net= works Management GmbH=20 Gesch=E4ftsleitung / Board of Directors: Lydia Sommer, Olaf Horsthemke=20 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats / Chairman of supervisory board: Herbert Mer= z=20 Sitz der Gesellschaft: M=FCnchen / Registered office: Munich=20 Registergericht: M=FCnchen / Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 163416=20 =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of ext Alavi= , Peggy Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:52 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda-stds.org Subject: [IBIS] Mismatch between ibischk and load lines Hello, =20 I am working on an IBIS Model and the golden parser (I have used 4.1, 4.2, = and 5.0 and my model is IBIS 4.2) gives me errors (on the high side - pull = up curve) on one of my outputs. I have independently verified the load line= and where it crosses the PD and PU curves, and the crossing exactly matche= s my transient end values, and does not match what the parser is claiming t= he crossings are. What could I be doing wrong? =20 Best, =20 - -Peggy =20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is=20 believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB2FB8.925A9CE1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello=20 Peggy,
 
as=20 Arpad pointed out, there might be many reason that causes the ibischeck=20 message.
 
but=20 please be aware, that the checker is using the sum of the static curves=20 .
 
so for=20 High  :  [pullup] + [gnd clamp] + [power clamp]
and=20 for Low :  [pulldown] + [gnd clamp] + [power clamp]
 
 
regards
Eckhard

Mit freundlichen Gr= =FC=DFen / Best=20 regards / Cordiali saluti / yst=E4v=E4llisin terveisin

Eckhard Lenski=20

Nokia Siemens Networ= ks GmbH=20 & Co. KG


NWS EP CP HW RD C= AD=20 libraries

Balanstr. 59<= /SPAN>

80240 M=FCnchen=20
Germany=20
phone= : +49 89=20 5159 17080
email: eckhard.lenski@nsn.com

http://www.nokiasiemensne= tworks.com/ibis=20


Nokia Siemens Networ= ks GmbH=20 & Co. KG

Sitz der Gesellschaf= t: M=FCnchen=20 / Registered office: Munich

Registergericht: M= =FCnchen /=20 Commercial registry: Munich, HRA 88537

WEEE-Reg.-Nr.: DE=20 52984304

Pers=F6nlich haftend= e=20 Gesellschafterin / General Partner: Nokia Siemens Networks Management=20 GmbH

Gesch=E4ftsleitung /= Board of=20 Directors: Lydia Sommer, Olaf Horsthemke

Vorsitzender des Auf= sichtsrats=20 / Chairman of supervisory board: Herbert Merz

Sitz der Gesellschaf= t: M=FCnchen=20 / Registered office: Munich

Registergericht: M= =FCnchen /=20 Commercial registry: Munich, HRB 163416

 

From: owner-ibis@eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of ext Alavi, Peggy
Sent= :=20 Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:52 PM
To: ibis-users@eda.org;=20 ibis@eda-stds.org
Subject: [IBIS] Mismatch between ibischk and lo= ad=20 lines

H= ello,

<= o:p> 

I= am=20 working on an IBIS Model and the golden parser (I have used 4.1, 4.2, and 5= .0=20 and my model is IBIS 4.2) gives me errors (on the high side =96 pull up cur= ve) on=20 one of my outputs. I have independently verified the load line and where it= =20 crosses the PD and PU curves, and the crossing exactly matches my transient= end=20 values, and does not match what the parser is claiming the crossings are. W= hat=20 could I be doing wrong?

<= o:p> 

B= est,

<= o:p> 

-= Peggy

<= o:p> 


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by = MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB2FB8.925A9CE1-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:38:54 -0400 From: Andrew Ingraham Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Simulation algorithm > I also observe that, even if I remove the V-T table and supply only the > [Ramp] information, HSPICE is able to simulate the buffer model with almost > the same accuracy. [I have 4 VT (2 Rise and 2 Fall) tables originally] Originally, IBIS had no V-T tables, and it worked OK. They were added in a later revision to improve the transient accuracy. Even after they were added to the IBIS spec, many simulators did not use them. (Hspice took a while to catch up.) How or why does it work without V-T tables? For most buffers, waveforms are largely determined by the interaction between the transistors (by way of their drive strengths in their On state), and the load. How a driver gets from Off to On, is far less important than how it interacts with the load, as described by its I-V curves. For many buffers, their transistors are switched between Off and On states faster than their outputs slew from L to H or H to L, because of that interaction with the load. That means they spend most of the time either Off (I=0), or fully On (I described by I-V table). Without V-T tables, the simulator transitions between one transistor fully On, to the other transistor fully On, over some short period of time. The Ramp data helps the simulator control how quickly it should go from one state to the other. Andy - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:48:56 -0700 From: Bob Ross Subject: [IBIS-Users] [IBIS] Asian IBIS Summit (China) Second Announcement To All: The IBIS Open Forum is holding an Asian IBIS Summit Meeting in Shenzhen, China, a major technology center on Tuesday, November 9, 2010 This is the second announcement for longer term travel planning. Several companies listed below are co-sponsoring this large event to be held at the Four Points by Sheraton, Shenzhen. Like in previous years, we are planning for a large number of attendees including several IBIS experts from the USA. We encourage technical contributions from Asia. We expect a full agenda of relevant material. For travel consideration, two other Asian IBIS Summits follow this event: Taipei, Taiwan, Friday, November 12, Sherwood Hotel Tokyo, Japan, Monday, November 15, JEITA headquarters Announcements for these will be issued later. Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (CHINA) SECOND CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AND PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/nov10a/announcement_chinese.pdf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( C H I N A ) Time/Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 8:00 AM to 5:30 PM Meeting starts at 9:00 AM Location: Four Points by Sheraton 5 Guihua Road Futian Free Trade Zone Shenzhen, Guangdong 518038 P. R. China http://www.starwoodhotels.com/fourpoints/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1489& EM=VTY_FP_1489_shenzhen_overview or http://tinyurl.com/2s6esb Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and exchange IBIS and interconnect model related information and ideas. Primary Sponsor: Huawei Technologies Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): Agilent Technologies, Ansoft Corporation, Cadence Design Systems, Cybernet, Intel Corporation, IO Methodology, Mentor Graphics Corporation, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft), Sigrity, Synopsys, and ZTE Corporation. Cost: FREE, including refreshments and buffet lunch Vendors: Some vendors will have information tables outside the meeting room Contact us for details regarding sponsorship. BACKGROUND We have held five successful meetings in Shenzhen, Shanghai and Beijing. This year we are meeting again in Shenzhen where many Chinese and foreign high technology companies operate. These events are archived along with all our other Summits: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/ Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and Chinese. So presenters can optionally deliver in Chinese as long as an English version of the material is available. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summits site, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. However, no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS and interconnect model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register using the information below (in English): Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Telephone: Comments: (Such as assistance for the travel requirements at the end) Send to BOTH: Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Lance Wang, IO Methology Inc. lwang@iometh.com SIGNUP DEADLINE: November 4, 2010 CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS and interconnect modeling experiences or issues. If we have to select presentations for the number of time slots available, we will give preferential consideration to presentations from Asia. Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Power Point or Acrobat Presentation Booklet: Available at the meeting for all attendees Presentation Deadline: October 12, 2010 to produce the presentation booklet for the meeting If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. Submitted presentations must be in English, although the delivery can be in Mandarin. Submissions from Asia are encouraged along with other submissions world-wide. Topics may include behavioral modeling of buffers, interconnects or other system components. AGENDA 8:15 - 9:00 Vendor table setup and tables 8:30 - 9:00 Sign in 9:00 - 12:00 Presentations 12:00 - 13:30 Free buffet lunch, vendor tables 13:30 - 17:00 Presentations The specific agenda is being developed. We expect nine or ten presentations covering a range of issues from existing customer experiences, existing clarifications and some future technical directions in IBIS. Several major IBIS Committee presentations from IBIS officers or active members are planned. Several presentations on IBIS applications and behavioral modeling issues, including interconnects and system components, are expected from co-sponsor companies and/or their customers. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels in all price ranges can be found through internet searches. Comply with your travel rules, such as indicated in the link below to China and Shenzhen. Work with your travel agent. Notify us as a sign-up comment if you need assistance. Visas, if needed, should fall in the visit/business category: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:45:44 -0700 From: Bob Ross Subject: [IBIS-Users] Asian IBIS Summit (China) First Announcement To All: The IBIS Open Forum is holding an Asian IBIS Summit Meeting in Shenzhen, China, a major technology center on Tuesday, November 9, 2010 This is an early initial announcement for longer term travel planning. Several companies listed below are co-sponsoring this large event to be held at the Four Points by Sheraton, Shenzhen. Like in previous years, we are planning for a large number of attendees including several IBIS experts from the USA. We encourage technical contributions from Asia. We expect a full agenda of relevant material. For travel consideration, two other Asian IBIS Summits follow this event: Taipei, Taiwan, Friday, November 12, Sherwood Hotel Tokyo, Japan, Monday, November 15, JEITA headquarters Announcements for these will be issued later. Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (CHINA) FIRST CALL FOR PARTICIPATION AND PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/nov10a/announcement_chinese.pdf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( C H I N A ) Time/Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 8:00 AM to 5:30 PM Meeting starts at 9:00 AM Location: Four Points by Sheraton 5 Guihua Road Futian Free Trade Zone Shenzhen, Guangdong 518038 P. R. China http://www.starwoodhotels.com/fourpoints/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1489&EM=VTY_FP_1489_shenzhen_overview or http://tinyurl.com/2s6esb Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and exchange IBIS and interconnect model related information and ideas. Primary Sponsor: Huawei Technologies Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): Agilent Technologies, Ansoft Corporation, Cadence Design Systems, Cybernet, Intel Corporation, IO Methodology, Mentor Graphics Corporation, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft), Sigrity, Synopsys, and ZTE Corporation. Cost: FREE, including refreshments and buffet lunch Vendors: Some vendors will have information tables outside the meeting room Contact us for details regarding sponsorship. BACKGROUND We have held five successful meetings in Shenzhen, Shanghai and Beijing. This year we are meeting again in Shenzhen where many Chinese and foreign high technology companies operate. These events are archived along with all our other Summits: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/ Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and Chinese. So presenters can optionally deliver in Chinese as long as an English version of the material is available. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summits site, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. However, no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS and interconnect model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register using the information below (in English): Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Telephone: Comments: (Such as assistance for the travel requirements at the end) Send to BOTH: Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Lance Wang, IO Methology Inc. lwang@iometh.com SIGNUP DEADLINE: November 4, 2010 CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS and interconnect modeling experiences or issues. If we have to select presentations for the number of time slots available, we will give preferential consideration to presentations from Asia. Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Power Point or Acrobat Presentation Booklet: Available at the meeting for all attendees Presentation Deadline: October 12, 2010 to produce the presentation booklet for the meeting If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. Submitted presentations must be in English, although the delivery can be in Mandarin. Submissions from Asia are encouraged along with other submissions world-wide. Topics may include behavioral modeling of buffers, interconnects or other system components. AGENDA 8:15 - 9:00 Vendor table setup and tables 8:30 - 9:00 Sign in 9:00 - 12:00 Presentations 12:00 - 13:30 Free buffet lunch, vendor tables 13:30 - 17:00 Presentations The specific agenda is being developed. We expect nine or ten presentations covering a range of issues from existing customer experiences, existing clarifications and some future technical directions in IBIS. Several major IBIS Committee presentations from IBIS officers or active members are planned. Several presentations on IBIS applications and behavioral modeling issues, including interconnects and system components, are expected from co-sponsor companies and/or their customers. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels in all price ranges can be found through internet searches. Comply with your travel rules, such as indicated in the link below to China and Shenzhen. Work with your travel agent. Notify us as a sign-up comment if you need assistance. Visas, if needed, should fall in the visit/business category: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC Teraspeed Labs 121 North River Drive 13610 SW Harness Lane Narragansett, RI 02882 Beaverton, OR 97008 401-284-1827 503-430-1065 http://www.teraspeed.com 503-246-8048 Direct bob@teraspeed.com Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 10:26:12 -0400 From: "Lance Wang" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] error msg in s2ibis3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CB3551.CB92CDD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the runlvl setting in HSpice. S2ibis3 expecting to control the time steps. You can set runlvl=0 to make it happens. Lance Wang 978-764-2298 IO Methodology Inc. www.iometh.com _____ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Ramesh Raghavan Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 4:11 AM To: 'ji xiao' Cc: 'ibis-users' Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] error msg in s2ibis3 Hi Yauncheng, If the issue is that you have more than 100 points in .out files. Then,there is a way to do this but I do not know if this is the really the best/efficient way. 1. You can use the iterate command option in .s2i. Edit the .spi files and reduce the step/range in .spi file and do a hspice simulation of all .spi files (which have more than 100 points) and generate the .out files and rerun the s2ibis3 tool for the IBIS model Does this help you? Thanks, Ramesh From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of ji xiao Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:59 PM To: ibis-users Subject: [IBIS-Users] error msg in s2ibis3 Dear all, when I use s2ibis3 to convert an HSPICE file to IBIS file, I got the error msg shown as below: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1 at sortVIData.sortVIData(ibisModel, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable) (Unknown Source) at analyzePin.analyzePin(ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, int, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, int, int) (Unknown Source) at analyzeComponent.analyzeComponent(int, int, int, java.lang.String) (Unknown Source) at s2ibis3.main(java.lang.String[]) (Unknown Source) It seems that the data points number of IV curves out of the range--100. Is there any way to solve the problem? Thanks and regards, Yuancheng - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------- This message and any attachments may contain Cypress (or its subsidiaries) confidential information. If it has been received in error, please advise the sender and immediately delete this message. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------- - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CB3551.CB92CDD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ch= eck out the runlvl setting in HSpice. S2ibis3 expecting to control the time ste= ps. You can set runlvl=3D0 to make it happens.

 

 

Lance Wang

978-764-2298

IO Methodology Inc.

ww= w.iometh.com

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'> 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'> 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'> 

 

From:= owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Ramesh Raghavan
Sent: Friday, August 06, 201= 0 4:11 AM
To: 'ji xiao'
Cc: 'ibis-users'
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] er= ror msg in s2ibis3

 

Hi   Yauncheng,

           &n= bsp;              If the issue is that you ha= ve more than 100 points in .out files. Then,there is  a way to do this bu= t I do not know if this is the really the best/efficient way.

1.      = You can use the iterate command option in .s2i.  Edit the .spi files and reduce the step/range in .spi file   and do a hspice simulation of all .spi files (which have more t= han 100 points)   and generate the .out files and rerun the s2ibis3 t= ool for the IBIS model

 

 Does this help you?

 

Thanks,

Ramesh

 

From:= owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of ji xiao
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:59 PM
To: ibis-users
Subject: [IBIS-Users] error = msg in s2ibis3

 

Dear all,
when I use s2ibis3 to convert an HSPICE file to IBIS file, I got the error = msg shown as below:
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsExcepti= on: - -1
   at sortVIData.sortVIData(ibisModel, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable) (Unknown Source)
   at analyzePin.analyzePin(ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, int, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, int, int) (Unknown Source)
   at analyzeComponent.analyzeComponent(int, int, int, java.lang.String) (Unknown Source)
   at s2ibis3.main(java.lang.String[]) (Unknown Source)

It seems that the data points number of IV curves out of the range--100. Is= there any way to solve the problem?

Thanks and regards,
Yuancheng

- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
---------------------------------------------------------------------= - ------------------------
This message and any attachments may contain Cypress (or its
subsidiaries) confidential information. If it has been received
in error, please advise the sender and immediately delete this
message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------= - ------------------------ - ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CB3551.CB92CDD0-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 06:07:05 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB4456.6B0239A7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yuangcheng, =20 When you put a load on the IBIS model which was used to extract the V-t curves from the transistor model (i.e. the same V_fixture and R_fixture combination), you should get the same waveforms at the output of the IBIS buffer as the V-t curve inside the IBIS model. =20 The stimulus to the IBIS model is usually not accessible in most tools. However, in some tools, like the HSPICE B-element case you can still define your own stimulus. This should be as fast as possible, since in theory this should be a perfect digital transition. =20 When you extract the V-t curves from the transistor models it is important to set the fastest possible edge rate for the stimulus, because a relatively slow edge can have an effect on the apparent delay since the stimulus will take a certain time to reach the threshold levels of the input causing some unwanted delays. =20 If you set fast stimulus edge rates, you will usually not have to massage anything in the waveforms you get from the transistor model when you make your IBIS model. =20 I hope this helps. =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of ji xiao Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 4:53 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves Dear all, I am trying to validate the IBIS VT data from SPICE simulation. Many technical papers described the setup as 'apply an appropriate input stimulus', can anyone tell me in detail how to set the 'appropriate' one, such as any standards for setting the delay, rise and falling time? As the original IBIS file does not describe the input stimulus condition, how can I set it to make me get a totally same rising and falling waveform? Thanks and regards, =20 Yuancheng - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB4456.6B0239A7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yuangcheng,
 
When you put a load on the IBIS model which was used= =20 to
extract the V-t curves from the transistor model=20 (i.e.
the same V_fixture and R_fixture combination), you=20 should
get the same waveforms at the output of the IBIS=20 buffer
as the V-t curve inside the IBIS model.<= /DIV>
 
The stimulus to the IBIS model is usually not=20 accessible
in most tools.  However, in some tools, like the= =20 HSPICE
B-element case you can still define your own=20 stimulus.
This should be as fast as possible, since in theory=20 this
should be a perfect digital transition.<= /DIV>
 
When you extract the V-t curves from the transistor=20 models
it is important to set the fastest possible edge rate= =20 for
the stimulus, because a relatively slow edge can have= =20 an
effect on the apparent delay since the stimulus will= =20 take
a certain time to reach the threshold levels of the=20 input
causing some unwanted delays.
 
If you set fast stimulus edge rates, you will=20 usually not
have to massage anything in the waveforms you get from= =20 the
transistor model when you make your IBIS=20 model.
 
I hope this helps.
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of ji xiao
Sent:=20 Wednesday, August 25, 2010 4:53 AM
To:=20 ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extra= cting=20 IBIS VT curves

Dear all,
I am trying to validate the IBIS VT data from SPICE simulati= on.=20 Many technical papers described the setup as 'apply an appropriate input=20 stimulus', can anyone tell me in detail how to set the 'appropriate' one, s= uch=20 as any standards for setting the delay, rise and falling time?
As the original IBIS file does not describe the input stimulus conditi= on,=20 how can I set it to make me get a totally same rising and falling=20 waveform?
Thanks and regards,
 
Yuancheng

--
This message has been scanned for viruses an= d=20
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB4456.6B0239A7-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 07:48:03 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Ramp calculation in O/P, Tri-state, I/O, buffer ibis model This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3251.B6278F30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Suraj, =20 In simple complementary CMOS buffers they usually turn off one side of the buffer quickly before they turn on the other side. When you do a falling edge, the pullup turns off quickly and then the pulldown starts turning on (usually slower). If you connect a resistor to the supply rail for the falling edge, then the output is not going to do anything while the pullup is being turned off. The resistor just keeps it at the supply rail when it was to begin with. When the pulldown starts turning on, the pulldown will pull the voltage down while fighting the resistor, forming a voltage divider. This way you get the turn on characteristics of the pulldown. =20 If the resistor was connected to GND, the pullup would be holding the voltage high fighting that resistor. As soon as the falling edge's transition begins, the pullup will let go and the waveform will go to GND. This way you get the characteristics of the pullup turning off. =20 The [Ramp] contains how the devices turn on. The [Ramp] doesn't tell you how the devices turn off. This was a major deficiency in IBIS 1.1 and this is why we added the waveform tables in IBIS 2.1 rapidly after IBIS 1.1 was released, and this is why we recommend very strongly to use a minimum of four waveform tables for each buffer model. =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of suraj.sukumarannair@wipro.com Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:24 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda-stds.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ramp calculation in O/P, Tri-state, I/O, buffer ibis model Hi All, =20 I had a query regarding the ramp calculation done in ibis file. Why is it that we consider the falling waveform w.r.t Vfix=3Dvdd and rising waveform w.r.t Vfix=3D0 tables instead of the other two tables while calculating Ramp? =20 Regards Suraj Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary.=20 The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.=20 WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.=20 www.wipro.com=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3251.B6278F30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Suraj,
 
In simple complementary CMOS buffers they usually turn= =20 off
one side of the buffer quickly before they turn on the= =20 other
side.  When you do a falling edge, the pullup tur= ns off=20 quickly
and then the pulldown starts turning on (usually=20 slower).  If
you connect a resistor to the supply rail for the=20 falling
edge, then the output is not going to do anything whil= e=20 the
pullup is being turned off.  The resistor just ke= eps it=20 at
the supply rail when it was to begin with.  When = the=20 pulldown
starts turning on, the pulldown will pull the voltage= =20 down
while fighting the resistor, forming a voltage divider= . =20 This
way you get the turn on characteristics of the=20 pulldown.
 
If the resistor was connected to GND, the pullup would= be=20 holding
the voltage high fighting that resistor.  As soon= as the=20 falling
edge's transition begins, the = pullup will=20 let go and the waveform
will go to GND.  This way you get the characteris= tics of=20 the pullup
turning off.
 
The [Ramp] contains how the devices turn on.  The= [Ramp]=20 doesn't
tell you how the devices turn off.  This was a ma= jor=20 deficiency
in IBIS 1.1 and this is why we added the waveform tabl= es in=20 IBIS
2.1 rapidly after IBIS 1.1 was released, and this is w= hy=20 we
recommend very strongly to use a minimum of four wavef= orm=20 tables
for each buffer model.
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of=20 suraj.sukumarannair@wipro.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8= :24=20 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda-stds.org
Subject:= =20 [IBIS-Users] Ramp calculation in O/P, Tri-state, I/O, buffer ibis=20 model

Hi All,

 

 I had a query regarding= the=20 ramp calculation done in ibis file. Why is it that we consider the falling= =20 waveform w.r.t Vfix=3Dvdd and rising waveform w.r.t Vfix=3D0 tables instead= of the=20 other two tables while calculating Ramp?

 

Regards

Suraj

Please=20 do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary. =

The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments= to=20 this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may= =20 contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not= the=20 intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-m= ail.=20 Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message= and=20 any attachments.

WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient sh= ould=20 check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The compa= ny=20 accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this= =20 email.

www.wipro.com


--
This message has been scanned for viruses a= nd=20
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB3251.B6278F30-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:53:57 -0400 From: "Timothy Coyle" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Parser for verifying syntax of .EBD file This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01CB2FCD.21E1ABF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Amit, I believe the standard IBIS Parser will check the syntax of an .ebd file with the -ebd flag. Take a look at the readme/help for the parser on the instructions. Best, Tim From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Amit KUMAR Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:42 AM To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda-stds.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Parser for verifying syntax of .EBD file Hello All, Do we have any parser which can check the syntax of .ebd file? Regards Amit - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01CB2FCD.21E1ABF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Amit,

I believe the standard I= BIS Parser will check the syntax of an .ebd file with the -ebd flag. Take a loo= k at the readme/help for the parser on the instructions.

 =

Best,<= /p>

 =

Tim

 =

 =

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of = Amit KUMAR
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:42 AM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org; ibis@eda-stds.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Parser for verifying syntax of .EBD file<= /o:p>

 

 Hello All,

 =

Do we have any parser wh= ich can check the syntax of .ebd file?

 =

Regards

Amit

 =


- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanne= r, and is
believed to be clean.


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01CB2FCD.21E1ABF0-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:49:51 +0530 From: Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Simulation algorithm This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB44DE.5063FD36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Can any one explain me, how an IBIS Simulator (say, HSPICE) is interpreting an IBIS file given to it? Suppose that I am simulating an IBIS file of a 2-state output buffer, using HSPICE by giving a square wave [swing is from 0 to 5V and period is 33ns] as input. Let's assume that it's a non-inverting buffer, and I observe that am getting the same square wave at the output. Can you tell me how exactly HSPICE finds the voltage values for each time, t? Which table(s) is used by HSPICE for this? I also observe that, even if I remove the V-T table and supply only the [Ramp] information, HSPICE is able to simulate the buffer model with almost the same accuracy. [I have 4 VT (2 Rise and 2 Fall) tables originally] Can you please clarify my doubts? Thanks, Shiju Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary.=20 The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to= this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and ma= y contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are n= ot the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy t= his e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of = this message and any attachments.=20 WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient shoul= d check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The com= pany accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by= this email.=20 www.wipro.com - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB44DE.5063FD36 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, <= o:p>

=  

Can a= ny one explain me, how an IBIS Simulator (say, HSPICE) is interpreting an IBIS file given to it?

=  

Suppo= se that I am simulating an IBIS file of a 2-state output buffer, using HSPICE = by giving a square wave [swing is from 0 to 5V and period is 33ns] as input. &= nbsp;Let’s assume that it’s a non-inverting buffer, and I observe that am getting the same square wave at the output.

Can you tell me how exactly HSPICE finds the voltage values for each time, = t? Which table(s) is used by HSPICE for this?

I also observe that, even if I remove the V-T table and supply only the [Ramp] information, HSPICE is able to simulate the buffer model with almost the same accuracy. [I = have 4 VT (2 Rise and 2 Fall) tables originally]

Can you please clarify my doubts?

=  

Thank= s,

Shiju=

Please do not print this email un= less it is absolutely necessary.

The information contained in this electronic message and any attachment= s to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) an= d may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you a= re not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or co= py this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies= of this message and any attachments.

WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient sh= ould check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The = company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted= by this email.

www.wipro.com


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB44DE.5063FD36-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:29:04 +0800 From: ji xiao Subject: [IBIS-Users] error msg in s2ibis3 - --0016364ed3461d42bd048d229fed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear all, when I use s2ibis3 to convert an HSPICE file to IBIS file, I got the error msg shown as below: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1 at sortVIData.sortVIData(ibisModel, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable) (Unknown Source) at analyzePin.analyzePin(ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, int, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, int, int) (Unknown Source) at analyzeComponent.analyzeComponent(int, int, int, java.lang.String) (Unknown Source) at s2ibis3.main(java.lang.String[]) (Unknown Source) It seems that the data points number of IV curves out of the range--100. Is there any way to solve the problem? Thanks and regards, Yuancheng - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --0016364ed3461d42bd048d229fed Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all,
when I use s2ibis3 to convert an HSPICE file to IBIS file, I g= ot the error msg shown as below:
Exception in thread "main" ja= va.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1
=A0=A0 at sortVIData.sortVIDa= ta(ibisModel, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable) (Unknown = Source)
=A0=A0 at analyzePin.analyzePin(ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin= , ibisPin, int, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, int, = int) (Unknown Source)
=A0=A0 at analyzeComponent.analyzeComponent(int, i= nt, int, java.lang.String) (Unknown Source)
=A0=A0 at s2ibis3.main(java.lang.String[]) (Unknown Source)

It seems= that the data points number of IV curves out of the range--100. Is there a= ny way to solve the problem?

Thanks and regards,
Yuancheng

--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --0016364ed3461d42bd048d229fed-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:34:52 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Simulation algorithm Andy, You are making some really good points, but some of the detail in your writing may be misleading or incorrect. First, in modeling the transitions, we need to describe two things. One is how the transistor of the buffer is turning on, and the other is how it turns off. In plain vanilla CMOS buffers we have a pullup and a pulldown transistor in the output. When the buffer goes High to Low, the pullup transistor gets turned off, and the pulldown gets turned on. For Low to High transitions the pulldown turns off and the pullup turns on. Since designers try to avoid crow bar currents, they usually turn the transistors off much faster then they turn the other transistor on, so that they wouldn't be on together. You can observe this very easily with a few simple simulations. Take a buffer and put a resistor between its output and ground. Take a second copy of the same buffer and put a resistor of the same value between its output and the power supply. Simulate a H to L and a L to H transition with both and compare the four waveforms. 1) With the L to H transition with R to GND, rising edge you see how the PU turns on. Initially the PD was on, which is a low impedance path to GND, but the resistor was also connected to GND, so the resistor and the transistor are in parallel between the output and GND. No matter whether this transistor is on or off, the resistor will keep the output at 0 V. The only time the output voltage will become different is when the pullup starts turning on. When this happens, the output voltage will have a value which is determined by the voltage division between the pullup transistor connected to the supply rail and the resistor connected to GND. This is why this waveform tells us how the PU turns on. 2) With a H to L transition and the R still connected to GND, we start with the pullup being on. As described above, this creates a voltage divider between the power and GND. As soon as the pullup transistor begins to turn off, the resistor will start lowering the voltage towards GND. The voltage will reach 0 V before the pulldown transistor even begins to turn on. So this falling waveform will show us how the pullup turned off. The same thinking can also be applied to the situation when the resistor is connected to the power rail. In that case the rising edge will tell us how the pulldown turned off and the falling edge will tell us how the pulldown turned on. If you looked at the loading conditions of [Ramp], you will see that it gives you only the information about how the transistors turn on, but it doesn't tell us how they turn off (unless the buffer is an open_*** type). You will have a hard time to implement a behavioral buffer algorithm without knowing how to turn off the transistors. You will have to guess, or assume something. (By the way, this is what the "tune" parameters are for in the HSPICE B-element, if I remember correctly). Since guessing leaves a lot of room for inaccuracies, this is why we added the waveform tables so quickly in IBIS v2.1 and stated that it was highly recommended to have at least four waveform tables in each [Model]. The added benefit of the waveform tables is that the data contained in them can describe the shape of the transition also, instead of just a straight line (trapezoidal) edge. Since I don't like to leave things to be guessed in my simulations, I tend to stay away from using the [Ramp] and tend to highly recommend the usage of the waveform tables, and recommend four tables per CMOS buffer. I hope my reasons are clear... Arpad ============================================================ - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Ingraham Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:39 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Simulation algorithm > I also observe that, even if I remove the V-T table and supply only the > [Ramp] information, HSPICE is able to simulate the buffer model with almost > the same accuracy. [I have 4 VT (2 Rise and 2 Fall) tables originally] Originally, IBIS had no V-T tables, and it worked OK. They were added in a later revision to improve the transient accuracy. Even after they were added to the IBIS spec, many simulators did not use them. (Hspice took a while to catch up.) How or why does it work without V-T tables? For most buffers, waveforms are largely determined by the interaction between the transistors (by way of their drive strengths in their On state), and the load. How a driver gets from Off to On, is far less important than how it interacts with the load, as described by its I-V curves. For many buffers, their transistors are switched between Off and On states faster than their outputs slew from L to H or H to L, because of that interaction with the load. That means they spend most of the time either Off (I=0), or fully On (I described by I-V table). Without V-T tables, the simulator transitions between one transistor fully On, to the other transistor fully On, over some short period of time. The Ramp data helps the simulator control how quickly it should go from one state to the other. Andy - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:52:39 +0800 From: ji xiao Subject: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves - --0015175cb0589425ee048ea2d7f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear all, I am trying to validate the IBIS VT data from SPICE simulation. Many technical papers described the setup as 'apply an appropriate input stimulus', can anyone tell me in detail how to set the 'appropriate' one, such as any standards for setting the delay, rise and falling time? As the original IBIS file does not describe the input stimulus condition, how can I set it to make me get a totally same rising and falling waveform? Thanks and regards, Yuancheng - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --0015175cb0589425ee048ea2d7f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,
I am=A0trying to=A0validate the IBIS VT data from SPICE simulation. Ma= ny technical papers described the setup as 'apply an appropriate input = stimulus', can anyone tell me in detail how to set the 'appropriate= ' one, such as any standards for setting the delay, rise and falling ti= me?
As the original IBIS file does not describe the input stimulus conditi= on, how can I set it to make me get a totally same rising and falling wavef= orm?
Thanks and regards,
=A0
Yuancheng

--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --0015175cb0589425ee048ea2d7f6-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 13:41:09 +0530 From: "Ramesh Raghavan" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] error msg in s2ibis3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CB356D.0BBACCD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Yauncheng, If the issue is that you have more than 100 points in .out files. Then,there is a way to do this but I do not know if this is the really the best/efficient way. 1. You can use the iterate command option in .s2i. Edit the .spi files and reduce the step/range in .spi file and do a hspice simulation of all .spi files (which have more than 100 points) and generate the .out files and rerun the s2ibis3 tool for the IBIS model Does this help you? Thanks, Ramesh From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of ji xiao Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:59 PM To: ibis-users Subject: [IBIS-Users] error msg in s2ibis3 Dear all, when I use s2ibis3 to convert an HSPICE file to IBIS file, I got the error msg shown as below: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1 at sortVIData.sortVIData(ibisModel, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable) (Unknown Source) at analyzePin.analyzePin(ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, int, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, int, int) (Unknown Source) at analyzeComponent.analyzeComponent(int, int, int, java.lang.String) (Unknown Source) at s2ibis3.main(java.lang.String[]) (Unknown Source) It seems that the data points number of IV curves out of the range--100. Is there any way to solve the problem? Thanks and regards, Yuancheng - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --------------------------------------------------------------- This message and any attachments may contain Cypress (or its subsidiaries) confidential information. If it has been received in error, please advise the sender and immediately delete this message. - --------------------------------------------------------------- - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CB356D.0BBACCD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi   Yauncheng,

          =              &n= bsp;  If the issue is that you have more than 100 points in .out files. Then,there is  a way to do this but I d= o not know if this is the really the best/efficient way.

1.&n= bsp;      You can use the iterate command option in .s2i.  Edit t= he .spi files and reduce the step/range in .spi file   and do a hspice si= mulation of all .spi files (which have more than 100 points)   and generate t= he .out files and rerun the s2ibis3 tool for the IBIS model

 <= /p>

 Does this help you?=

 <= /p>

Thanks,=

Ramesh<= /p>

 

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of = ji xiao
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:59 PM
To: ibis-users
Subject: [IBIS-Users] error msg in s2ibis3

 

Dear all,
when I use s2ibis3 to convert an HSPICE file to IBIS file, I got the error = msg shown as below:
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsExcepti= on: - -1
   at sortVIData.sortVIData(ibisModel, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable, ibisVItable) (Unknown Source)
   at analyzePin.analyzePin(ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, ibisPin, int, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, java.lang.String, int, int) (Unknown Source)
   at analyzeComponent.analyzeComponent(int, int, int, java.lang.String) (Unknown Source)
   at s2ibis3.main(java.lang.String[]) (Unknown Source)

It seems that the data points number of IV curves out of the range--100. Is there any way to solve the problem?

Thanks and regards,
Yuancheng

- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanne= r, and is
believed to be clean.


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
---------------------------------------------------------------------= - ------------------------
This message and any attachments may contain Cypress (or its
subsidiaries) confidential information. If it has been received
in error, please advise the sender and immediately delete this
message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------= - ------------------------ - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CB356D.0BBACCD0-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:26:41 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves Andy, Regarding your comments on the transistor models, while it is a reasonable concept, it usually doesn't matter. I verified this by sweeping the stimulus edge rate from very fast to very slow, and overlaid the output waveforms, and didn't see any difference, other than a time shift due to the input stimulus reaching the threshold levels increasingly later with the slower slopes. This can be explained by the fact that most transistor buffer models have multiple stages in them, and the final stage is so far removed from the first stage that its waveform is only determined by the transistor sizing relationships between the stages, but not by the stimulus waveform. Your reasoning would only be true when the transistor model doesn't have any pre-driver stage(s), or very few of them. But I would strongly advise against using such transistor models for IBIS data extractions, because if the output waveform is a factor of the stimulus, then the model maker can end up making all kinds of incorrect IBIS models if they don't know what the waveform looks like on the core side of this model. Regarding the stimulus to the B-element (or the like), it is true that in terms of its operation it doesn't matter what the edge rate is, the output waveform will still be the same. But you need to consider that due to the slow stimulus waveforms you will get a certain delay in the transition. This can cause complications if the user forgets that the stimulus supposed to be a 0-1 volt waveform, and the thresholds are set to 0.2 and 0.8 if I remember correctly. I have seen many times people applying a source to the input of the B-element with a voltage swing that used the supply voltage value of the buffer, for example 0 to 3.3 volts. With a slow stimulus edge rate, the rising edge will trigger sooner than the falling edge very noticeably. (In other words you get duty cycle distortions from the IBIS model while the transistor model didn't do that). Even if this was handled properly by the user, similar shifting could occur due to the different stimulus edge rates between the transistor and IBIS buffer stimuli. I had people often show me "discrepancies" between the transistor waveforms and the IBIS waveforms which were due to that, and they had no clue why the IBIS and transistor waveforms were shifted apart in time. These are the reasons I am suggesting the use of fast edge rates... Arpad =================================================================== - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Ingraham Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:14 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves I disagree that the edge should be "as fast as possible". For the IBIS models used in HSPICE, my recollection is that HSPICE treats it as a switch, waiting until the (digital) input waveform crosses a threshold, then switching the IBIS model. The edge rate of that digital stimulus waveform therefore shouldn't matter ... except that very slow edge rate causes a known time delay before the IBIS modeled device switches, and extremely fast edge rates might make the simulation run slow or lead to convergence problems. Theoretically it's good to make it fast so that it works like an instantaneous binary switch, but there could be practical problems if you try to do that. For the transistor (SPICE) models, ideally you should attempt to match the actual waveform (edge rate and amplitude) that is at that point inside the IC, NOT the "fastest possible edge rate". Hopefully that is what the IBIS modeler did too. Using a faster edge rate than what those transistors normally see, makes it unrealistic. Andy - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:32:55 -0400 From: Scott McMorrow Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves Arpad I agree with you on input edge rate to a buffer. Most devices have extremely fast input rise/fall time into the predriver, since loading is so low at this point in the circuit. What is more important for IBIS buffer modeling is the predriver voltage rail. Unfortunately, in IBIS there is no way to correctly model predriver power supply voltage modulation effects, which are very real under SSO conditions. regards, Scott Scott McMorrow Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 121 North River Drive Narragansett, RI 02882 (401) 284-1827 Business (401) 284-1840 Fax http://www.teraspeed.com Teraspeed® is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC On 8/25/2010 1:26 PM, Muranyi, Arpad wrote: > Andy, > > Regarding your comments on the transistor models, while it is > a reasonable concept, it usually doesn't matter. I verified > this by sweeping the stimulus edge rate from very fast to very > slow, and overlaid the output waveforms, and didn't see any > difference, other than a time shift due to the input stimulus > reaching the threshold levels increasingly later with the slower > slopes. This can be explained by the fact that most transistor > buffer models have multiple stages in them, and the final stage > is so far removed from the first stage that its waveform is > only determined by the transistor sizing relationships between > the stages, but not by the stimulus waveform. > > Your reasoning would only be true when the transistor model > doesn't have any pre-driver stage(s), or very few of them. But > I would strongly advise against using such transistor models > for IBIS data extractions, because if the output waveform is > a factor of the stimulus, then the model maker can end up making > all kinds of incorrect IBIS models if they don't know what the > waveform looks like on the core side of this model. > > Regarding the stimulus to the B-element (or the like), it is true > that in terms of its operation it doesn't matter what the edge > rate is, the output waveform will still be the same. But you > need to consider that due to the slow stimulus waveforms you will > get a certain delay in the transition. This can cause complications > if the user forgets that the stimulus supposed to be a 0-1 volt > waveform, and the thresholds are set to 0.2 and 0.8 if I remember > correctly. I have seen many times people applying a source to the > input of the B-element with a voltage swing that used the supply > voltage value of the buffer, for example 0 to 3.3 volts. With a > slow stimulus edge rate, the rising edge will trigger sooner than > the falling edge very noticeably. (In other words you get duty > cycle distortions from the IBIS model while the transistor model > didn't do that). > > Even if this was handled properly by the user, similar shifting > could occur due to the different stimulus edge rates between the > transistor and IBIS buffer stimuli. I had people often show me > "discrepancies" between the transistor waveforms and the IBIS > waveforms which were due to that, and they had no clue why the > IBIS and transistor waveforms were shifted apart in time. > > These are the reasons I am suggesting the use of fast edge rates... > > Arpad > =================================================================== > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On > Behalf Of Andrew Ingraham > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:14 AM > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] input stimulus for extracting IBIS VT curves > > I disagree that the edge should be "as fast as possible". > > For the IBIS models used in HSPICE, my recollection is that HSPICE > treats it as a switch, waiting until the (digital) input waveform > crosses a threshold, then switching the IBIS model. The edge rate of > that digital stimulus waveform therefore shouldn't matter ... except > that very slow edge rate causes a known time delay before the IBIS > modeled device switches, and extremely fast edge rates might make the > simulation run slow or lead to convergence problems. Theoretically > it's good to make it fast so that it works like an instantaneous > binary switch, but there could be practical problems if you try to do > that. > > For the transistor (SPICE) models, ideally you should attempt to match > the actual waveform (edge rate and amplitude) that is at that point > inside the IC, NOT the "fastest possible edge rate". Hopefully that > is what the IBIS modeler did too. Using a faster edge rate than what > those transistors normally see, makes it unrealistic. > > Andy > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:31:24 -0700 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Simulation algorithm This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB4533.BDBBA836 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shiju, =20 Look at this presentation: =20 http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jun03b/muranyi1.pdf =20 Hopefully the first eight or so pages will=20 answer your questions. =20 Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of shiju.abraham@wipro.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:20 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Simulation algorithm Hi,=20 =20 Can any one explain me, how an IBIS Simulator (say, HSPICE) is interpreting an IBIS file given to it?=20 =20 Suppose that I am simulating an IBIS file of a 2-state output buffer, using HSPICE by giving a square wave [swing is from 0 to 5V and period is 33ns] as input. Let's assume that it's a non-inverting buffer, and I observe that am getting the same square wave at the output. Can you tell me how exactly HSPICE finds the voltage values for each time, t? Which table(s) is used by HSPICE for this? I also observe that, even if I remove the V-T table and supply only the [Ramp] information, HSPICE is able to simulate the buffer model with almost the same accuracy. [I have 4 VT (2 Rise and 2 Fall) tables originally] Can you please clarify my doubts? =20 Thanks, Shiju Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary.=20 The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.=20 WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.=20 www.wipro.com=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner , and is believed to be clean.=20 - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB4533.BDBBA836 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Shiju,
 
Look at this presentation:
 
http://www.eda= .org/ibis/summits/jun03b/muranyi1.pdf
 
Hopefully the first eight or so pages will=20
answer your questions.
 
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org=20 [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of=20 shiju.abraham@wipro.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:20= =20 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS=20 Simulation algorithm

Hi= ,=20

 

Ca= n any=20 one explain me, how an IBIS Simulator (say, HSPICE) is interpreting an IBIS= file=20 given to it?

 

Su= ppose=20 that I am simulating an IBIS file of a 2-state output buffer, using HSPICE = by=20 giving a square wave [swing is from 0 to 5V and period is 33ns] as input.= =20  Let’s assume that it’s a non-inverting buffer, and I obse= rve that am=20 getting the same square wave at the output.

Can you tell me how exac= tly=20 HSPICE finds the voltage values for each time, t? Which table(s) is used by= =20 HSPICE for this?

I = also=20 observe that, even if I remove the V-T table and supply only the [Ramp]=20 information, HSPICE is able to simulate the buffer model with almost = the same=20 accuracy. [I have 4 VT (2 Rise and 2 Fall) tables originally]

Can yo= u=20 please clarify my doubts?

 

Th= anks,

Sh= iju=

Please=20 do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary. =

The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments= to=20 this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may= =20 contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not= the=20 intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-m= ail.=20 Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message= and=20 any attachments.

WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient sh= ould=20 check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The compa= ny=20 accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this= =20 email.

www.wipro.com


--
This message has been scanned for viruses a= nd=20
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
be= lieved=20 to be clean.
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB4533.BDBBA836-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:44:43 -0600 From: "Mirmak, Michael" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Use of IBIS-AMI models for standard interfaces by standards groups? - --_000_F12A5FAAC7FFD14384BFFEFA94744FBEA70263CErrsmsx502amrcor_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been studying several industry interface specifications in detail la= tely; specifically, SAS2 (available through www.t10.org= ) and PCI Express Gen. 3 (consult www.pci-sig.com; = membership may be required for document access). Because of the high speed= s of both, equalization is required and schemes such as DFE and CTLE are de= scribed in considerable detail. Some of these kinds of specifications incl= ude equations for how a "spec reference" receiver is supposed to operate fo= r simulation purposes. None of the industry interface documents I have read so far mentions IBIS-A= MI however, though some explicitly mention StatEye or even refer to the sta= ndard group's own software or code for performing some simulation tasks. S= AS2 even provides MATLAB code for one analysis procedure as part of the spe= cification document. Is this not an opportunity? Could one of our more enterprising readers use= the industry specification equations to create a "spec reference" IBIS-AMI= model for simulation purposes? This would certainly be a benefit both to = the standard involved as well as to IBIS-AMI adoption, not to mention the i= ndividual or organization that actually releases the model. While I'm cert= ain that private versions may exist, I would like to suggest a public relea= se of one or more of these specification models. Any volunteers? - - MM - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_F12A5FAAC7FFD14384BFFEFA94744FBEA70263CErrsmsx502amrcor_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have been studying several industry interface specifications in deta= il lately; specifically, SAS2 (available through www.t10.org) and PCI Express Gen. 3 (consult = www.pci-sig.com; membership may be required for document = access).  Because of the high speeds of both, equalization is required= and schemes such as DFE and CTLE are described in considerable detail.  Some of these kinds of specifications include= equations for how a “spec reference” receiver is supposed to o= perate for simulation purposes.
 
None of the industry interface documents I have read so far mentions I= BIS-AMI however, though some explicitly mention StatEye or even refer to th= e standard group’s own software or code for performing some simulatio= n tasks. SAS2 even provides MATLAB code for one analysis procedure as part of the specification document.
 
Is this not an opportunity?  Could one of our more enterprising r= eaders use the industry specification equations to create a “spec ref= erence” IBIS-AMI model for simulation purposes?  This would cert= ainly be a benefit both to the standard involved as well as to IBIS-AMI adoption, not to mention the individual or organization that= actually releases the model.  While I’m certain that private ve= rsions may exist, I would like to suggest a public release of one or more o= f these specification models.
 
Any volunteers?
 
  • MM
 
 
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --_000_F12A5FAAC7FFD14384BFFEFA94744FBEA70263CErrsmsx502amrcor_-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 11:13:55 -0400 From: Eric Monteiro Subject: [IBIS-Users] AMI Cable EQ using QFB/AGC Hello Everyone I was wondering if anyone out there has implemented (or tied to) an IBIS AMI model of an AGC feedback loop. If so (and you are willing to share), I am having some speed issues that I could use help solving. In short, does anyone have experience using fft sample by sample using internal states(e.g. choosing how many samples to track)? I.e. similar to how veriloga does it. Note: I am doing this in C, not Matlab. Details: Right now my loop updates the AGC coeffients ( 3 to be exact, for 3 EQ stages ) 1 per sample (maybe I should do once per bit?). This means that the 2nd and 3rd stage inputs change if the 1st AGC coeff changes, meaning I have to revaluate the outputs of the 2nd and 3rd linear stages using fft in AMI GetWave instead of AMI init. To help speed this up, I am opting for convolution for simple low pass filters, however I still need the fft for the linear EQ. Source for any fucntion is avaible at any time for review or re-use (though I wouldn't ever consider myself a software engineer). Best Regards, Eric This communication contains confidential information intended only for the addressee(s). If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete this communication from your mail box. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 10:03:57 -0400 From: "Lance Wang" Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Summit Fourth Call of Papers and Participations - DAC June15th, 2010, Anaheim CA All: This is the fourth announcement for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled along with the Design Automation Conference in Anaheim, California on June 15, 2010. We have several presentations lined up, but have room for more. Please sign up if you are coming. Also, you can sign up for the free pass at DAC exhibition on Monday if you are on site. Lance Wang IO Methodology Inc. www.iometh.com - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT FOURTH CALL FOR PARTICIPATION & PRESENTATIONS - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: Tuesday June 15, 2010, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM Location: Anaheim Marriott 777 Convention Way, Anaheim, California 92802 Tel: 1-714-750-4321 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: IBIS Open Forum If your company would be interested in sponsoring this event, please contact Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) Sponsorship is available for the room, lunch, and coffee breaks. DAC: June 13 - 18, 2010 Anaheim Convention Center Anaheim, California FREE Exhibit Pass on Monday, June 14, 2010 See for more information. BACKGROUND The Design Automation Conference (DAC) is the premier Electronic Design Automation (EDA) and silicon solution event. Several vendors active in the IBIS Open Forum attend DAC. This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations are expected to be available and archived in an electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the meeting. The annual election of officers will be held. Nominations can be sent to Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) or made at the meeting. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Deadline, June 10, 2010. Send to: Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Format of Presentation: LCD Projection with Windows laptop. Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. Electronic presentations should be made available by June 7, 2010 for uploading and copying to the presentation laptop. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Lance Wang (lwang@iometh.com) AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, breaks, and a luncheon (which will be provided). This will be developed as presentation proposals are received. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS See (http://www.dac.com/) for travel directions, hotels and other information or use other search engines. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 18:17:58 +0800 From: ji xiao Subject: [IBIS-Users] problems about extracting IV curves from SPICE model - --0016e64b009ab160ee0486efc539 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, everyone. For my research purpose, I want to extract IV data (pullup, pulldown, etc.) from the SPICE model of inverter 74lvc04a, and the result is supposed to be similar to the IBIS IV table. However, for my case, there is a large difference (around 10 times smaller than the IV table in IBIS file) although the whole curve trend looks similar. And it exists for all IV curves. For my circuit connection, let's take pulldown curve as an example, I give corresponding Vdd voltage source to power suply, ground input and connect the output to a variable voltage source (V1) and use a current probe to measure the output current(I1) at the output port. I plot the IV curve I1 vs. V1 and treat it as the pulldown curve. No floating voltage source in the circuit. Can anyone tell me what's wrong with my connection? Thanks and regards, Yuancheng - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --0016e64b009ab160ee0486efc539 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, everyone.
For my research purpose, I want to extract IV=A0data (pullup, pulldown= , etc.) from the SPICE model of inverter 74lvc04a, and the result is suppos= ed to be similar to the IBIS IV table. However, for my case, there is a lar= ge difference (around 10 times smaller than the IV table in IBIS file) alth= ough the whole curve trend looks similar. And it exists for all IV curves.<= /div>
For my circuit connection, let's take pulldown curve as an example= , I give corresponding Vdd voltage source=A0to power suply, ground input an= d connect the output to a variable voltage source (V1) and use a current pr= obe to measure the output current(I1) at the output port. I plot the IV cur= ve I1 vs. V1 and treat it as the pulldown curve. No floating voltage source= in the circuit.
Can anyone tell me=A0what's wrong with my connection?
=A0
Thanks and regards,
Yuancheng
=A0

--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --0016e64b009ab160ee0486efc539-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:51:50 -0700 From: "Alavi, Peggy" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Mismatch between ibischk and load lines - --_000_CB2B044BB730A04391E9C27D23E3A82935AA9395BFEXMAIL02scwfn_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I am working on an IBIS Model and the golden parser (I have used 4.1, 4.2, = and 5.0 and my model is IBIS 4.2) gives me errors (on the high side - pull = up curve) on one of my outputs. I have independently verified the load line= and where it crosses the PD and PU curves, and the crossing exactly matche= s my transient end values, and does not match what the parser is claiming t= he crossings are. What could I be doing wrong? Best, - -Peggy - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_CB2B044BB730A04391E9C27D23E3A82935AA9395BFEXMAIL02scwfn_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

 

I am working on an IBIS Model and the golden parser (I have used 4.1, 4.2, and 5.0 and my model is IBIS 4.2) gives me errors (on the high si= de – pull up curve) on one of my outputs. I have independently verified the load line and where it crosses the PD and PU curves, and the crossing exactly matches my transient end values, and does not match what the parser is clai= ming the crossings are. What could I be doing wrong?

 

Best,

 

-Peggy

 


--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --_000_CB2B044BB730A04391E9C27D23E3A82935AA9395BFEXMAIL02scwfn_-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail majordomo@eda-stds.org |with the appropriate command message(s) in the body: | | help | subscribe ibis | subscribe ibis-users | unsubscribe ibis | unsubscribe ibis-users | |or e-mail a request to ibis-request@eda-stds.org. | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/pub/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ End of ibis-users V1 #145 *************************