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Subject: ibis-users V1 #211
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ibis-users           Tuesday, March 26 2013           Volume 01 : Number 211




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:24:17 +0000
From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <Arpad_Muranyi@mentor.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: C_comp subparameters extraction

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One more thing I forgot to mention:

How many power and ground terminals does your buffer have?
If there is more than just one Vcc and one GND terminal,
are you sure you are measuring all the possible paths the
current might take (including the input terminal)?

This might be an "obvious" point, but are you sure that
there are no internal sources in your buffer model
providing power to any part of the buffer?

I hope this helps too...

Thanks,

Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Muranyi, =
Arpad
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 3:18 PM
To: ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS] RE: C_comp subparameters extraction

Rinsha,

Are you making sure that the conditions between your
measurements are the same?

C_comp is a tricky thing.  It can vary with lots of
things.  For example, the C_comp you measure could
be different when the buffer is 3-stated, diving high
or driving low.  It also varies with bias voltage, i.e.
with the voltage at the pad of the buffer.  In order
for the numbers to "add up" you have to make sure that
you add them up when they are under the same conditions.

I hope this helps,

Arpad

From: owner-ibis@eda.org<mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org> [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.=
org] On Behalf Of Rinsha Reghunath
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 5:41 AM
To: ibis@eda.org<mailto:ibis@eda.org>; ibis-users@eda.org<mailto:ibis-users=
@eda.org>
Subject: [IBIS] C_comp subparameters extraction

Hello,

I was trying out the extraction of C-comp subparameters, namely, C_comp_pul=
lup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power_clamp, and C_comp_gnd_clamp according to=
 the methodology specified in IBIS cookbook version 4.0, section 3.3.1. But=
 the extracted C_comp subparameter values doesnot sum up to the actual C_co=
mp value extracted. How is the Miller cap being taken care of in this case?=
 Is there any documentation on the same?

Thanks & Regards,
Rinsha

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">One more thing I forgot to mention:<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">How many power and ground terminals does your =
buffer have?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">If there is more than just one Vcc and one GND=
 terminal,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">are you sure you are measuring all the possibl=
e paths the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">current might take (including the input termin=
al)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">This might be an &#8220;obvious&#8221; point, =
but are you sure that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">there are no internal sources in your buffer m=
odel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">providing power to any part of the buffer?<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">I hope this helps too...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Arpad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> owner-ib=
is@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Muranyi, Arpad<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 3:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [IBIS] RE: C_comp subparameters extraction<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Rinsha,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Are you making sure that the conditions betwee=
n your<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">measurements are the same?<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">C_comp is a tricky thing.&nbsp; It can vary wi=
th lots of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">things.&nbsp; For example, the C_comp you meas=
ure could<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">be different when the buffer is 3-stated, divi=
ng high<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">or driving low.&nbsp; It also varies with bias=
 voltage, i.e.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">with the voltage at the pad of the buffer.&nbs=
p; In order<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">for the numbers to &#8220;add up&#8221; you ha=
ve to make sure that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">you add them up when they are under the same c=
onditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">I hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Arpad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org">owner-ibis@eda.org</a> [<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:owner-ibis@eda.org">mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rinsha Reghunath<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 5:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ibis@eda.org">ibis@eda.org</a>; <a href=3D"mai=
lto:ibis-users@eda.org">
ibis-users@eda.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [IBIS] C_comp subparameters extraction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">I was trying out the e=
xtraction of C-comp subparameters, namely, C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, =
C_comp_power_clamp, and C_comp_gnd_clamp according to the methodology speci=
fied in IBIS cookbook version 4.0, section
 3.3.1. But the extracted C_comp subparameter values doesnot sum up to the =
actual C_comp value extracted. How is the Miller cap being taken care of in=
 this case? Is there any documentation on the same?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">Thanks &amp; Regards,<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">Rinsha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:54:53 +0000
From: Rinsha Reghunath <Rinsha.Raghunath@synopsys.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: C_comp subparameters extraction

- --_004_6CF2432F84DCD244B763C5F4FD9D86F709B01Bin01wembx1interna_
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="_000_6CF2432F84DCD244B763C5F4FD9D86F709B01Bin01wembx1interna_"


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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Arpad,

I have used the same setup for measuring both C_comp and its subparameters =
as per the following method specified in the cookbook, where it is mentione=
d that "The circuit for measuring split C_comp values is very similar to th=
at used for the basic C_comp simulation, except the current will be measure=
d at the supply connections, instead of the I/O pad." In the buffer which I=
 am modeling, there is only one Vcc and one GND terminal, and the currents =
are measured through these. But the resulting C_comp subparameter values ca=
lculated based on these measured currents doesnot add up to the original C_=
comp.

[cid:image002.jpg@01CE2A36.108D4F60]

Thanks,
Rinsha

From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Muranyi, =
Arpad
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:54 AM
To: ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS] RE: C_comp subparameters extraction

One more thing I forgot to mention:

How many power and ground terminals does your buffer have?
If there is more than just one Vcc and one GND terminal,
are you sure you are measuring all the possible paths the
current might take (including the input terminal)?

This might be an "obvious" point, but are you sure that
there are no internal sources in your buffer model
providing power to any part of the buffer?

I hope this helps too...

Thanks,

Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: owner-ibis@eda.org<mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org> [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.=
org] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 3:18 PM
To: ibis@eda.org<mailto:ibis@eda.org>; ibis-users@eda.org<mailto:ibis-users=
@eda.org>
Subject: [IBIS] RE: C_comp subparameters extraction

Rinsha,

Are you making sure that the conditions between your
measurements are the same?

C_comp is a tricky thing.  It can vary with lots of
things.  For example, the C_comp you measure could
be different when the buffer is 3-stated, diving high
or driving low.  It also varies with bias voltage, i.e.
with the voltage at the pad of the buffer.  In order
for the numbers to "add up" you have to make sure that
you add them up when they are under the same conditions.

I hope this helps,

Arpad

From: owner-ibis@eda.org<mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org> [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.=
org] On Behalf Of Rinsha Reghunath
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 5:41 AM
To: ibis@eda.org<mailto:ibis@eda.org>; ibis-users@eda.org<mailto:ibis-users=
@eda.org>
Subject: [IBIS] C_comp subparameters extraction

Hello,

I was trying out the extraction of C-comp subparameters, namely, C_comp_pul=
lup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power_clamp, and C_comp_gnd_clamp according to=
 the methodology specified in IBIS cookbook version 4.0, section 3.3.1. But=
 the extracted C_comp subparameter values doesnot sum up to the actual C_co=
mp value extracted. How is the Miller cap being taken care of in this case?=
 Is there any documentation on the same?

Thanks & Regards,
Rinsha

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Arpad,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"color:#=
17375E;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#17375E;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:=
100.0%">I have used the same setup for measuring both C_comp and its subpar=
ameters as per the following method specified
 in the cookbook, where it is mentioned that &#8220;</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:#17375E;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#17375E;mso-style-textfill-fill-=
alpha:100.0%">The circuit for measuring split C_comp values is very similar=
 to that used for the basic C_comp simulation,
 except the current will be measured at the supply connections, instead of =
the I/O pad.&#8221; In the buffer which I am modeling, there is only one Vc=
c and one GND terminal, and the currents are measured through these. But th=
e resulting C_comp subparameter values
 calculated based on these measured currents doesnot add up to the original=
 C_comp.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><img width=3D"658" hei=
ght=3D"361" id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image002.jpg@01CE2A36.108D4F6=
0"></span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Rinsha<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> owner-ib=
is@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Muranyi, Arpad<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [IBIS] RE: C_comp subparameters extraction<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">One more thing I forgot to mention:<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">How many power and ground terminals does your =
buffer have?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">If there is more than just one Vcc and one GND=
 terminal,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">are you sure you are measuring all the possibl=
e paths the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">current might take (including the input termin=
al)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">This might be an &#8220;obvious&#8221; point, =
but are you sure that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">there are no internal sources in your buffer m=
odel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">providing power to any part of the buffer?<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">I hope this helps too...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Arpad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org">owner-ibis@eda.org</a> [<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:owner-ibis@eda.org">mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Muranyi, Arpad<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 3:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ibis@eda.org">ibis@eda.org</a>; <a href=3D"mai=
lto:ibis-users@eda.org">
ibis-users@eda.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [IBIS] RE: C_comp subparameters extraction<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Rinsha,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Are you making sure that the conditions betwee=
n your<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">measurements are the same?<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">C_comp is a tricky thing.&nbsp; It can vary wi=
th lots of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">things.&nbsp; For example, the C_comp you meas=
ure could<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">be different when the buffer is 3-stated, divi=
ng high<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">or driving low.&nbsp; It also varies with bias=
 voltage, i.e.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">with the voltage at the pad of the buffer.&nbs=
p; In order<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">for the numbers to &#8220;add up&#8221; you ha=
ve to make sure that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">you add them up when they are under the same c=
onditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">I hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Arpad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org">owner-ibis@eda.org</a> [<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:owner-ibis@eda.org">mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rinsha Reghunath<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 5:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ibis@eda.org">ibis@eda.org</a>; <a href=3D"mai=
lto:ibis-users@eda.org">
ibis-users@eda.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [IBIS] C_comp subparameters extraction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">I was trying out the e=
xtraction of C-comp subparameters, namely, C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, =
C_comp_power_clamp, and C_comp_gnd_clamp according to the methodology speci=
fied in IBIS cookbook version 4.0, section
 3.3.1. But the extracted C_comp subparameter values doesnot sum up to the =
actual C_comp value extracted. How is the Miller cap being taken care of in=
 this case? Is there any documentation on the same?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">Thanks &amp; Regards,<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">Rinsha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:17:56 +0000
From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <Arpad_Muranyi@mentor.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: C_comp subparameters extraction

- --_000_EB55FD6CF8C21444BE032D68DDA5FB998BA03032NAMBX02mgcmento_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Rinsha,

Are you making sure that the conditions between your
measurements are the same?

C_comp is a tricky thing.  It can vary with lots of
things.  For example, the C_comp you measure could
be different when the buffer is 3-stated, diving high
or driving low.  It also varies with bias voltage, i.e.
with the voltage at the pad of the buffer.  In order
for the numbers to "add up" you have to make sure that
you add them up when they are under the same conditions.

I hope this helps,

Arpad

From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Rinsha Re=
ghunath
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 5:41 AM
To: ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS] C_comp subparameters extraction

Hello,

I was trying out the extraction of C-comp subparameters, namely, C_comp_pul=
lup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power_clamp, and C_comp_gnd_clamp according to=
 the methodology specified in IBIS cookbook version 4.0, section 3.3.1. But=
 the extracted C_comp subparameter values doesnot sum up to the actual C_co=
mp value extracted. How is the Miller cap being taken care of in this case?=
 Is there any documentation on the same?

Thanks & Regards,
Rinsha

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Rinsha,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Are you making sure that the conditions betwee=
n your<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">measurements are the same?<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">C_comp is a tricky thing.&nbsp; It can vary wi=
th lots of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">things.&nbsp; For example, the C_comp you meas=
ure could<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">be different when the buffer is 3-stated, divi=
ng high<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">or driving low.&nbsp; It also varies with bias=
 voltage, i.e.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">with the voltage at the pad of the buffer.&nbs=
p; In order<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">for the numbers to &#8220;add up&#8221; you ha=
ve to make sure that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">you add them up when they are under the same c=
onditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">I hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"border:none;padding:0in"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Arpad<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
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0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> owner-ib=
is@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rinsha Reghunath<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 5:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [IBIS] C_comp subparameters extraction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">I was trying out the e=
xtraction of C-comp subparameters, namely, C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, =
C_comp_power_clamp, and C_comp_gnd_clamp according to the methodology speci=
fied in IBIS cookbook version 4.0, section
 3.3.1. But the extracted C_comp subparameter values doesnot sum up to the =
actual C_comp value extracted. How is the Miller cap being taken care of in=
 this case? Is there any documentation on the same?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">Thanks &amp; Regards,<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">Rinsha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:09:21 -0400
From: Mike LaBonte <mike@labonte.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Re: [IBIS] Validation of composite current

- --e89a8f643372d76e5104d797a12b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
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When you write "IBIS I-T curves are getting truncated at the rise and fall
transitions" do you mean EDA tools are doing the truncating? There are
several behaviors among the tools, and the tendency is to reduce the length
of the V-T curves to the minimum needed to represent an edge, to avoid
overclocking issues. But the fact that current changes often appear before
the voltage changes at the output does raise does raise some questions:

1) Is it necessary to capture pre-driver current? The intention of
[Composite Current] was to improve k-factor determination for
Pullup/Pulldown turnon/turnoff. Currents before the start of the output
transition should be irrelevant.

2) Should IBIS add features to model transition intervals that are shorter
than the waveforms needed to fully characterize each transition, without
discarding data? This was discussed recently, and I believe it was seen as
a significant challenge.

Mike


On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Rinsha Reghunath <
Rinsha.Raghunath@synopsys.com> wrote:

>  Hi,****
>
> ** **
>
> I am trying to validate an IBIS 5.1 model generated for DDR3 with
> ISSO_PU/PD and Composite Current data. The V-T and I-T data is not clipped
> in order to capture pre-driver current better and the I-T table has 1000
> points. When I tried to do a transient analysis for validation, SPICE and
> IBIS V-T waveforms are matching at the DDR3 frequency, but IBIS I-T curves
> are getting truncated at the rise and fall transitions and doesnot
> correlate well with SPICE. The pre-driver current is being lost. When the
> frequency is reduced, there is good SPICE =96 IBIS matching for I-T. ** **
>
>
> ****
>
> Is this issue known or is it an issue in the IBIS model?****
>
> ** **
>
> I have read in http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/may11/m051111.pdf that
> =93adding [Composite Current] data to the model reduced the valid switchi=
ng
> rate of the model.=94 Is the above issue related to this?****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,****
>
> Rinsha****
>
> ** **
>
> --
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<div dir=3D"ltr">When you write &quot;<span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans=
- -serif;font-size:13px">IBIS I-T curves are getting truncated at the rise an=
d fall transitions&quot; do you mean EDA tools are doing the truncating? Th=
ere are several behaviors among the tools, and the tendency is to reduce th=
e length of the V-T curves to the minimum needed to represent an edge, to a=
void overclocking issues. But the fact that current changes often appear be=
fore the voltage changes at the output does raise does raise some questions=
:</span><div>
<span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></di=
v><div style><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">1)=
 Is it necessary to capture pre-driver current? The intention of [Composite=
 Current] was to improve k-factor determination for Pullup/Pulldown turnon/=
turnoff. Currents before the start of the output transition should be irrel=
evant.</span></div>
<div style><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>=
</span></div><div style><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:13px">2) Should IBIS add features to model transition intervals that are=
 shorter than the waveforms needed to fully characterize each transition, w=
ithout discarding data? This was discussed recently, and I believe it was s=
een as a significant challenge.</span></div>
<div style><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>=
</span></div><div style><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:13px">Mike</span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote">
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Rinsha Reghunath <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Rinsha.Raghunath@synopsys.com" target=3D"_blank">Rinsha.Ragh=
unath@synopsys.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">






<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am trying to validate an IBIS 5.1 model generated =
for DDR3 with ISSO_PU/PD and Composite Current data. The V-T and I-T data i=
s not clipped in order to capture pre-driver current better and the I-T tab=
le has 1000 points. When I tried to
 do a transient analysis for validation, SPICE and IBIS V-T waveforms are m=
atching at the DDR3 frequency, but IBIS I-T curves are getting truncated at=
 the rise and fall transitions and doesnot correlate well with SPICE. The p=
re-driver current is being lost.
 When the frequency is reduced, there is good SPICE =96 IBIS matching for I=
- -T. <u></u>
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is this issue known or is it an issue in the IBIS mo=
del?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have read in <a href=3D"http://www.eda.org/ibis/su=
mmits/may11/m051111.pdf" target=3D"_blank">
http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/may11/m051111.pdf</a> that =93adding [Compo=
site Current] data to the model reduced the valid switching rate of the mod=
el.=94 Is the above issue related to this?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rinsha<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"=
><u></u><u></u></font></span></p><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888=
888">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<br>--=20
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</blockquote></div><br></div>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:48:36 +0000
From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <Arpad_Muranyi@mentor.com>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: [IBIS] Valid Matrices

- --_000_EB55FD6CF8C21444BE032D68DDA5FB9981C75C99NAMBX04mgcmento_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Fabio,

That is currently correct for the IBIS package and EBD models.
For the IBIS-ISS specification you can have everything that
is supported by the W-element or S-parameter models.  We are
now working very hard to make IBIS-ISS available for IBIS
package and on-die interconnect modeling.

I hope this helps,

Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: owner-ibis@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org] On Behalf Of Fabio BRI=
NA
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 3:20 AM
To: ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS] Valid Matrices

Hello Experts,

   In the IBIS Manual I read only about [Resistance Matrix], [Inductance Ma=
trix]
     and [Capacitance Matrix]. Are only these valid Matrices?
     Is  [Conductance Matrix]  an invalid Matrix for the IBIS standard?

   Thank you in advance,

Regards,
Fabio



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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Fabio,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">That is currently correct for the IBIS package=
 and EBD models.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">For the IBIS-ISS specification you can have ev=
erything that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">is supported by the W-element or S-parameter m=
odels.&nbsp; We are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">now working very hard to make IBIS-ISS availab=
le for IBIS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">package and on-die interconnect modeling.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">I hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Arpad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> owner-ib=
is@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis@eda.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fabio BRINA<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 22, 2012 3:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ibis@eda.org; ibis-users@eda.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [IBIS] Valid Matrices<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Experts,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;In the IBIS Manual I read only about [R=
esistance Matrix], [Inductance Matrix]
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and [Capacitance Matri=
x]. Are only these valid Matrices?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Is &nbsp;[Conductance =
Matrix] &nbsp;an invalid Matrix for the IBIS standard?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thank you in advance,<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Fabio<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
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