From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #220 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Precedence: bulk ibis-users Wednesday, September 4 2013 Volume 01 : Number 220 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 03:48:24 +0000 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: Role of C_comp - --_000_EB55FD6CF8C21444BE032D68DDA5FB998BA79A87NAMBX02mgcmento_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ling Li, Regarding: "it has no difference between the simulation on C_comp 0.1pF and= 50pF". That's correct (for the case when the buffer model is driving), and that's the way HyperLynx 9.0 should also behave. Thanks, Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: Ling Li Ong [mailto:llong@altera.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 2:19 AM To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org Cc: Siong Hee Lim Subject: RE: Role of C_comp Hi Arpad, Thanks for your fast response. I was referring to the mentor's website whi= ch commented with using the version 8.2.1, it has no difference between the= simulation on C_comp 0.1pF and 50pF. This version may be outdated compare to latest as I noticed the posting dat= e was on last year. However, I assume it should perform the same simulatio= n result after this version. http://communities.mentor.com/mgcx/thread/6935 May I know is this comment align to your understanding? Thanks. Regards, Ling Li From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:Arpad_Muranyi@mentor.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 2:46 PM To: Ling Li Ong; ibis-users@eda.org Cc: Siong Hee Lim Subject: RE: Role of C_comp Ling Li, It seems that your conclusion from reading Todd Westerhoff's email in the link you provided is not quite correct. Todd seems to say (correctly) that the output waveform of a driver will not change when C_comp is changed in the IBIS [Model]. You should only see differences in the waveforms when a reflection hits the driver and that reflection bounces back off of the driver. This secondary reflection from the driver should depend on the C_comp value. Similarly, if an I/O buffer model is in the receive mode (i.e. input state), you should see different waveforms when you change the C_comp value. As far as I can tell from my days when I worked at Intel and used HSPICE in my work, HSPICE does what I described above correctly. Now that I work for Mentor, I can also tell you that the results of HyperLynx are correct the same way. I am actually surprised to hear that you see different results. Are you sure your test case is designed well to show and observe these effects correctly? By the way, the latest HyperLynx version is now 9.0 (not 8.2.1). I hope this helps answering your question. Thanks, Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:own= er-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Ling Li Ong Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:47 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Cc: Siong Hee Lim Subject: [IBIS-Users] Role of C_comp Hi, I saw some discussions on c_comp issue at user archive at link: http://www.eda.org/ibis/users_archive/0487.html I am confused by the c_comp whether it is double-counted and the different = result obtained when using different tools. According to the comment in the link above, varying the c_comp may see the = changes in rise/fall curve. This is definitely true when using the HSPICE = simulator. But, if you using the latest Hyperlynx version 8.2.1, changing= the c_comp will not reflect the changes in rise/fall curve. Can you please advise which tools are showing the correct response on c_com= p when sweeping at different value? Thanks. Regards, Ling Li ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice. This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have = received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, a= nd delete the message and any attachments. Thank you. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice. This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have = received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, a= nd delete the message and any attachments. Thank you. - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_EB55FD6CF8C21444BE032D68DDA5FB998BA79A87NAMBX02mgcmento_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ling Li,

 

Regarding: “it has no difference between the simulation on C_comp 0.1pF and 50= pF”.

That’s correct (for the case when the bu= ffer model is driving), and

that’s the way HyperLynx 9.0 should also= behave.

 

Thanks,

 

Arpad

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

From: Ling Li = Ong [mailto:llong@altera.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 2:19 AM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org
Cc: Siong Hee Lim
Subject: RE: Role of C_comp

 

Hi Arpad,

 

Thanks for your fast r= esponse.  I was referring to the mentor’s website which commente= d with using the version 8.2.1, it has no difference between the simulation= on C_comp 0.1pF and 50pF.

This version may be ou= tdated compare to latest as I noticed the posting date was on last year.&nb= sp; However, I assume it should perform the same simulation result after th= is version.

http://communities.mentor.com/mgcx/thr= ead/6935

 

May I know is this com= ment align to your understanding?  

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Ling Li

 

From: Muranyi,= Arpad [mailto:Arpad_Muranyi@me= ntor.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 2:46 PM
To: Ling Li Ong; ibis-users@ed= a.org
Cc: Siong Hee Lim
Subject: RE: Role of C_comp

 

Ling Li,

 

It seems that your conclusion from reading Tod= d Westerhoff’s email

in the link you provided is not quite correct.=   Todd seems to say

(correctly) that the output waveform of a driv= er will not change

when C_comp is changed in the IBIS [Model].&nb= sp; You should only see

differences in the waveforms when a reflection= hits the driver

and that reflection bounces back off of the dr= iver.  This secondary

reflection from the driver should depend on th= e C_comp value.

 

Similarly, if an I/O buffer model is in the re= ceive mode (i.e. input

state), you should see different waveforms whe= n you change the C_comp

value.

 

As far as I can tell from my days when I worke= d at Intel and used

HSPICE in my work, HSPICE does what I describe= d above correctly.

 

Now that I work for Mentor, I can also tell yo= u that the results

of HyperLynx are correct the same way.  I= am actually surprised to

hear that you see different results.  Are= you sure your test case

is designed well to show and observe these eff= ects correctly?

 

By the way, the latest HyperLynx version is no= w 9.0 (not 8.2.1).

 

I hope this helps answering your question.

 

Thanks,

 

Arpad

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [<= a href=3D"mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org">mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org<= /a>] On Behalf Of Ling Li Ong
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:47 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Cc: Siong Hee Lim
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Role of C_comp

 

Hi,

 

I saw some discussions on c_comp issue at user archi= ve at link:

http://www.eda.org/ibis/users_archive/0487.html

 

I am confused by the c_comp whether it is double-cou= nted and the different result obtained when using different tools.

According to the comment in the link above, varying = the c_comp may see the changes in rise/fall curve.  This is definitely= true when using the HSPICE simulator.  But, if you using the latest H= yperlynx  version 8.2.1, changing the c_comp will not reflect the changes in rise/fall curve. 

 

Can you please advise which tools are showing the co= rrect response on c_comp when sweeping at different value?

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Ling Li

 

 

 

 

 

 

Confidentiality Notice.
This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please= advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message and any attachme= nts. Thank you.

- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanne= r, and is
believed to be clean.

 

Confidentiality Notice.
This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please= advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message and any attachme= nts. Thank you.


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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - --_000_EB55FD6CF8C21444BE032D68DDA5FB998BA79A87NAMBX02mgcmento_-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail mikelabonte@eda-stds.org |or ibis-request@eda-stds.org | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 13:09:02 +0800 From: Ling Li Ong Subject: [IBIS-Users] RE: Role of C_comp - --_004_37BAE8793D8170468245974FF0CB2E0C70961F9EABPGITMSG03alte_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_37BAE8793D8170468245974FF0CB2E0C70961F9EABPGITMSG03alte_" - --_000_37BAE8793D8170468245974FF0CB2E0C70961F9EABPGITMSG03alte_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Muranyi, Do you mean for an output buffer, if purely changing the c_comp value betwe= en 0.1pF and 50pF and maintain other parameters as identical, it should not= generate any different waveforms? I tried out the a simple output buffer simulation ran on HSPICE 2011.09-SP1= . No transmission line or termination impedance but mainly the ibis model.= C_comp swept at 3.5pF (purple) and 5pf (green). I observed the waveforms are not overlapped. Is this the correct result fr= om HSPICE? If it is not, what will be the expected result? [cid:image002.jpg@01CEAA39.171B3580] Regards, Ling Li From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:Arpad_Muranyi@mentor.com] Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 11:48 AM To: Ling Li Ong; ibis-users@eda.org Cc: Siong Hee Lim Subject: RE: Role of C_comp Ling Li, Regarding: "it has no difference between the simulation on C_comp 0.1pF and= 50pF". That's correct (for the case when the buffer model is driving), and that's the way HyperLynx 9.0 should also behave. Thanks, Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: Ling Li Ong [mailto:llong@altera.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 2:19 AM To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users@eda.org Cc: Siong Hee Lim Subject: RE: Role of C_comp Hi Arpad, Thanks for your fast response. I was referring to the mentor's website whi= ch commented with using the version 8.2.1, it has no difference between the= simulation on C_comp 0.1pF and 50pF. This version may be outdated compare to latest as I noticed the posting dat= e was on last year. However, I assume it should perform the same simulatio= n result after this version. http://communities.mentor.com/mgcx/thread/6935 May I know is this comment align to your understanding? Thanks. Regards, Ling Li From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:Arpad_Muranyi@mentor.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 2:46 PM To: Ling Li Ong; ibis-users@eda.org Cc: Siong Hee Lim Subject: RE: Role of C_comp Ling Li, It seems that your conclusion from reading Todd Westerhoff's email in the link you provided is not quite correct. Todd seems to say (correctly) that the output waveform of a driver will not change when C_comp is changed in the IBIS [Model]. You should only see differences in the waveforms when a reflection hits the driver and that reflection bounces back off of the driver. This secondary reflection from the driver should depend on the C_comp value. Similarly, if an I/O buffer model is in the receive mode (i.e. input state), you should see different waveforms when you change the C_comp value. As far as I can tell from my days when I worked at Intel and used HSPICE in my work, HSPICE does what I described above correctly. Now that I work for Mentor, I can also tell you that the results of HyperLynx are correct the same way. I am actually surprised to hear that you see different results. Are you sure your test case is designed well to show and observe these effects correctly? By the way, the latest HyperLynx version is now 9.0 (not 8.2.1). I hope this helps answering your question. Thanks, Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:own= er-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Ling Li Ong Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:47 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Cc: Siong Hee Lim Subject: [IBIS-Users] Role of C_comp Hi, I saw some discussions on c_comp issue at user archive at link: http://www.eda.org/ibis/users_archive/0487.html I am confused by the c_comp whether it is double-counted and the different = result obtained when using different tools. According to the comment in the link above, varying the c_comp may see the = changes in rise/fall curve. This is definitely true when using the HSPICE = simulator. But, if you using the latest Hyperlynx version 8.2.1, changing= the c_comp will not reflect the changes in rise/fall curve. Can you please advise which tools are showing the correct response on c_com= p when sweeping at different value? Thanks. Regards, Ling Li ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice. This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have = received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, a= nd delete the message and any attachments. Thank you. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice. This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have = received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, a= nd delete the message and any attachments. Thank you. ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice. This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have = received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, a= nd delete the message and any attachments. Thank you. - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_37BAE8793D8170468245974FF0CB2E0C70961F9EABPGITMSG03alte_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Muranyi,=

 

Do you mean for an out= put buffer, if purely changing the c_comp value between 0.1pF and 50pF and = maintain other parameters as identical, it should not generate any differen= t waveforms?

 

I tried out the a simp= le output buffer simulation ran on HSPICE 2011.09-SP1.  No transmissio= n line or termination impedance but mainly the ibis model.   C_co= mp swept at 3.5pF (purple) and 5pf (green).

I observed the wavefor= ms are not overlapped.  Is this the correct result from HSPICE?  = If it is not, what will be the expected result?

 

 

 

Regards,

Ling Li

 

 

From: Muranyi,= Arpad [mailto:Arpad_Muranyi@mentor.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 11:48 AM
To: Ling Li Ong; ibis-users@eda.org
Cc: Siong Hee Lim
Subject: RE: Role of C_comp

 

Ling Li,

 

Regarding: “it has no difference between the simulation on C_comp 0.1pF and 50= pF”.

That’s correct (for the case when the bu= ffer model is driving), and

that’s the way HyperLynx 9.0 should also= behave.

 

Thanks,

 

Arpad

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

From: Ling Li = Ong [mailto:llong@altera.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 2:19 AM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis-users= @eda.org
Cc: Siong Hee Lim
Subject: RE: Role of C_comp

 

Hi Arpad,

 

Thanks for your fast r= esponse.  I was referring to the mentor’s website which commente= d with using the version 8.2.1, it has no difference between the simulation= on C_comp 0.1pF and 50pF.

This version may be ou= tdated compare to latest as I noticed the posting date was on last year.&nb= sp; However, I assume it should perform the same simulation result after th= is version.

http://communities.mentor.com/mgcx/thr= ead/6935

 

May I know is this com= ment align to your understanding?  

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Ling Li

 

From: Muranyi,= Arpad [mailto:Arpad_Muranyi@me= ntor.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 2:46 PM
To: Ling Li Ong; ibis-users@ed= a.org
Cc: Siong Hee Lim
Subject: RE: Role of C_comp

 

Ling Li,

 

It seems that your conclusion from reading Tod= d Westerhoff’s email

in the link you provided is not quite correct.=   Todd seems to say

(correctly) that the output waveform of a driv= er will not change

when C_comp is changed in the IBIS [Model].&nb= sp; You should only see

differences in the waveforms when a reflection= hits the driver

and that reflection bounces back off of the dr= iver.  This secondary

reflection from the driver should depend on th= e C_comp value.

 

Similarly, if an I/O buffer model is in the re= ceive mode (i.e. input

state), you should see different waveforms whe= n you change the C_comp

value.

 

As far as I can tell from my days when I worke= d at Intel and used

HSPICE in my work, HSPICE does what I describe= d above correctly.

 

Now that I work for Mentor, I can also tell yo= u that the results

of HyperLynx are correct the same way.  I= am actually surprised to

hear that you see different results.  Are= you sure your test case

is designed well to show and observe these eff= ects correctly?

 

By the way, the latest HyperLynx version is no= w 9.0 (not 8.2.1).

 

I hope this helps answering your question.

 

Thanks,

 

Arpad

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [<= a href=3D"mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org">mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org<= /a>] On Behalf Of Ling Li Ong
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:47 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Cc: Siong Hee Lim
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Role of C_comp

 

Hi,

 

I saw some discussions on c_comp issue at user archi= ve at link:

http://www.eda.org/ibis/users_archive/0487.html

 

I am confused by the c_comp whether it is double-cou= nted and the different result obtained when using different tools.

According to the comment in the link above, varying = the c_comp may see the changes in rise/fall curve.  This is definitely= true when using the HSPICE simulator.  But, if you using the latest H= yperlynx  version 8.2.1, changing the c_comp will not reflect the changes in rise/fall curve. 

 

Can you please advise which tools are showing the co= rrect response on c_comp when sweeping at different value?

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Ling Li

 

 

 

 

 

 

Confidentiality Notice.
This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please= advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message and any attachme= nts. Thank you.

- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanne= r, and is
believed to be clean.

 

Confidentiality Notice.
This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please= advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message and any attachme= nts. Thank you.


Confidentiality Notice.
This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please= advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message and any attachme= nts. Thank you.
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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I was referring to the mentor's website whi= ch commented with using the version 8.2.1, it has no difference between the= simulation on C_comp 0.1pF and 50pF. This version may be outdated compare to latest as I noticed the posting dat= e was on last year. However, I assume it should perform the same simulatio= n result after this version. http://communities.mentor.com/mgcx/thread/6935 May I know is this comment align to your understanding? Thanks. Regards, Ling Li From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:Arpad_Muranyi@mentor.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 2:46 PM To: Ling Li Ong; ibis-users@eda.org Cc: Siong Hee Lim Subject: RE: Role of C_comp Ling Li, It seems that your conclusion from reading Todd Westerhoff's email in the link you provided is not quite correct. Todd seems to say (correctly) that the output waveform of a driver will not change when C_comp is changed in the IBIS [Model]. You should only see differences in the waveforms when a reflection hits the driver and that reflection bounces back off of the driver. This secondary reflection from the driver should depend on the C_comp value. Similarly, if an I/O buffer model is in the receive mode (i.e. input state), you should see different waveforms when you change the C_comp value. As far as I can tell from my days when I worked at Intel and used HSPICE in my work, HSPICE does what I described above correctly. Now that I work for Mentor, I can also tell you that the results of HyperLynx are correct the same way. I am actually surprised to hear that you see different results. Are you sure your test case is designed well to show and observe these effects correctly? By the way, the latest HyperLynx version is now 9.0 (not 8.2.1). I hope this helps answering your question. Thanks, Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:own= er-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf Of Ling Li Ong Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:47 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Cc: Siong Hee Lim Subject: [IBIS-Users] Role of C_comp Hi, I saw some discussions on c_comp issue at user archive at link: http://www.eda.org/ibis/users_archive/0487.html I am confused by the c_comp whether it is double-counted and the different = result obtained when using different tools. According to the comment in the link above, varying the c_comp may see the = changes in rise/fall curve. This is definitely true when using the HSPICE = simulator. But, if you using the latest Hyperlynx version 8.2.1, changing= the c_comp will not reflect the changes in rise/fall curve. Can you please advise which tools are showing the correct response on c_com= p when sweeping at different value? Thanks. Regards, Ling Li ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice. This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have = received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, a= nd delete the message and any attachments. Thank you. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice. This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have = received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, a= nd delete the message and any attachments. Thank you. - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_37BAE8793D8170468245974FF0CB2E0C70961F9CA0PGITMSG03alte_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Arpad,

 

Thanks for your fast r= esponse.  I was referring to the mentor’s website which commente= d with using the version 8.2.1, it has no difference between the simulation= on C_comp 0.1pF and 50pF.

This version may be ou= tdated compare to latest as I noticed the posting date was on last year.&nb= sp; However, I assume it should perform the same simulation result after th= is version.

http://communities.mentor.com/mgcx/thr= ead/6935

 

May I know is this com= ment align to your understanding?  

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Ling Li

 

From: Muranyi,= Arpad [mailto:Arpad_Muranyi@mentor.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 2:46 PM
To: Ling Li Ong; ibis-users@eda.org
Cc: Siong Hee Lim
Subject: RE: Role of C_comp

 

Ling Li,

 

It seems that your conclusion from reading Tod= d Westerhoff’s email

in the link you provided is not quite correct.=   Todd seems to say

(correctly) that the output waveform of a driv= er will not change

when C_comp is changed in the IBIS [Model].&nb= sp; You should only see

differences in the waveforms when a reflection= hits the driver

and that reflection bounces back off of the dr= iver.  This secondary

reflection from the driver should depend on th= e C_comp value.

 

Similarly, if an I/O buffer model is in the re= ceive mode (i.e. input

state), you should see different waveforms whe= n you change the C_comp

value.

 

As far as I can tell from my days when I worke= d at Intel and used

HSPICE in my work, HSPICE does what I describe= d above correctly.

 

Now that I work for Mentor, I can also tell yo= u that the results

of HyperLynx are correct the same way.  I= am actually surprised to

hear that you see different results.  Are= you sure your test case

is designed well to show and observe these eff= ects correctly?

 

By the way, the latest HyperLynx version is no= w 9.0 (not 8.2.1).

 

I hope this helps answering your question.

 

Thanks,

 

Arpad

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [<= a href=3D"mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org">mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org<= /a>] On Behalf Of Ling Li Ong
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:47 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Cc: Siong Hee Lim
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Role of C_comp

 

Hi,

 

I saw some discussions on c_comp issue at user archi= ve at link:

http://www.eda.org/ibis/users_archive/0487.html

 

I am confused by the c_comp whether it is double-cou= nted and the different result obtained when using different tools.

According to the comment in the link above, varying = the c_comp may see the changes in rise/fall curve.  This is definitely= true when using the HSPICE simulator.  But, if you using the latest H= yperlynx  version 8.2.1, changing the c_comp will not reflect the changes in rise/fall curve. 

 

Can you please advise which tools are showing the co= rrect response on c_comp when sweeping at different value?

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Ling Li

 

 

 

 

 

 

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believed to be clean. - --_000_37BAE8793D8170468245974FF0CB2E0C70961F9CA0PGITMSG03alte_-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail mikelabonte@eda-stds.org |or ibis-request@eda-stds.org | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 16:16:48 -0700 From: "Bob Ross" Subject: [IBIS-Users] Asian IBIS Summit (Yokohama) - First Announcement This is a multipart message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CEA7F7.D3F0FDF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To All: The IBIS Open Forum will hold its eighth Asian IBIS Summit Meeting on November 22 in Yokohama, Japan. We are starting Friday afternoon. JEITA (Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association) is the primary event sponsor. An EDS Fair exhibition, November 20-22, is organized by JEITA and co-located with the IBIS Summit. Note that we are also holding two other Asian IBIS Summits: Shanghai, China Friday, November 15, 2013 Taipei, Taiwan Tuesday, November 19, 2013 Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group Atsushi Ishikawa JEITA EC Center - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (YOKOHAMA) FIRST CALL FOR PARTICIPATION - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A S I A N I B I S S U M M I T ( Y O K O H A M A ) Time/Date: Friday, November 22, 2013, 13:00 to 18:00 Meeting starts at 13:30 Location: Pacifico Yokohama Annex Hall 1-1-1, Minato Mirai, Nishi-ku Yokohama, JAPAN URL: http://www.pacifico.co.jp/english/index.html ROOM F201 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Organizational Sponsors: Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) IBIS Open Forum Co-sponsors (in alphabetical order): To Be Determined Cost: FREE, including refreshments Exhibition: ELECTRONIC DESIGN SOLUTIONS FAIR (EDSFAIR) Date: November 20-22, 2013 Organizer: JEITA URL: http://www.edsfair.com/e/ BACKGROUND This year we holding the eighth Asian IBIS Summit meeting in Japan. Several high-technology Japanese companies operate in the Tokyo and Yokohama area and are affiliated with JEITA and IBIS. Our objective is to reach out internationally to communicate with the local experts and to learn of regional concerns. CONFERENCE LANGUAGE The conference language is English, but we will plan for technical translations in English and in Japanese. Presenters may deliver in Japanese, but the presentation slides should be in English. IBIS SUMMIT This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentations will be archived in an electronic format on our Summit site, and meeting minutes will be issued. However no formal decisions requiring votes will be planned. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS model development, EDA tool development and digital circuit design are invited to participate in the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Top-level Web Link: Country: Send to BOTH: Bob ROSS, Teraspeed Consulting Group bob@teraspeed.com Atsushi ISHIKAWA, JEITA EC Center a-ishikawa@jeita.or.jp SIGNUP DEADLINE: Novembe 15, 2013 Advance registration is requested for refreshments planning. CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Presentations from Asia are encouraged/ Presentation Format: LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer Time: 15-30 Minutes including questions Electronic Archival: All presentations will uploaded to our public IBIS Summit archives Electronic Format: Microsoft PowerPoint or Adobe PDF Presentation Copies: Available at the meeting for all attendees PRESENTATION DEADLINE: November 4, 2013 to produce meeting copies If you plan a presentation, please ADD to the above registration information: Title of Presentation: Estimated Time: (30 minutes or less) We will notify you of acceptance and may follow up with questions when we form the program agenda. Note: Vendor promotional or business information is prohibited. We review all submitted presentations and may request modifications. Submissions from Asia are encouraged. AGENDA (Tentative) 13:00 Sign in Asian IBIS Summit (Yokohama) 13:30 Presentations 15:30 Refreshments 15:45 Presentations 18:00 End of Meeting The specific agenda is being developed. LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES Hotels at and near the Pacifico Yokohama can be found through internet searches. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Bob Ross Teraspeed Consulting Group, LCC http://www.teraspeed.com bob@teraspeeed.com Direct : 503-246-8048 Teraspeed Labs: 971-279-5325 Headquarters: 401-284-1827 Teraspeed is a registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CEA7F7.D3F0FDF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

To All:

 =

The I= BIS Open Forum will hold its eighth Asian IBIS Summit Meeting

o= n November 22 in Yokohama, Japan.  We are starting Friday afternoon.

 

JEITA (Japan Electronics and Information Tec= hnology Industries

Association) is the primary event sponsor.&n= bsp; An EDS Fair exhibition,

<= span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>November 20-22, is organized by JE= ITA and co-located with the IBIS

Summit.

<= p class=3DMsoPlainText> = ;

Note that we are also holding two other Asian IBIS Summits:

 

  Shanghai, China   Friday, Novembe= r 15, 2013

  Taipei, Taiwan   Tuesday, November = 19, 2013

 

Bob Ross

Teraspeed Cons= ulting Group

 

Atsushi Ishikawa

JE= ITA EC Center

 

------------------------------= - -----------------------------------------

   &nb= sp;            =          ASIAN IBIS SUMMIT (YOKOHAM= A)

          =             &nb= sp;  FIRST CALL FOR PARTICIPATION

------------------------= - -----------------------------------------------

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<= /p>

&= nbsp;

          A S I A= N   I B I S   S U M M I T   ( Y O K O H A M = A )

 

Time/Date:  Friday, November 22, 20= 13, 13:00 to 18:00

       &n= bsp;    Meeting starts at 13:30

 

 &nb= sp;          1-1-1, Minato Mir= ai, Nishi-ku

        &n= bsp;   Yokohama, JAPAN

 

URL: &= nbsp;      http://www.pacifico.co.jp/english/index= .html

 

ROOM     &nbs= p;  F201

 

Content:    Pre= sentations and Discussions

 

Purpose: &nb= sp;  Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information

&= nbsp;           and Ideas= .

 

Organizational Sponsors:=

 = ;           Japan Electro= nics and Information Technology Industries

   &n= bsp;           Associatio= n (JEITA)

         = ;   IBIS Open Forum

=  

Co-sponsors (i= n alphabetical order):

      &nbs= p;     To Be Determined

 =

 

Exhibition: ELECTRONIC DESIGN SOLUTIONS FAIR= (EDSFAIR)

Date:       November 2= 0-22, 2013

Organizer:  JEITA

URL:  &= nbsp;     http://www.edsfair.com/e/

&n= bsp;

 

BACKGROUND

   This yea= r we holding the eighth Asian IBIS Summit meeting in Japan.

&nb= sp;  Several high-technology Japanese companies operate in the Tokyo

   and Yokohama area and are affiliated with JEITA and= IBIS.

 

   Our objective is to reac= h out internationally to communicate with

   the loca= l experts and to learn of regional concerns.

 =

 

   The confe= rence language is English, but we will plan for technical=

 = ;  translations in English and in Japanese. Presenters may deliver in<= o:p>

   Japanese, but the presentation slides should be in= English.

 

<= span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>IBIS SUMMIT

<= p class=3DMsoPlainText> = ;

   This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summi= t Meeting.

   Presentations will be archived in an el= ectronic format on our Summit

=    site, and meeting mi= nutes will be issued. However no formal decisions

   = requiring votes will be planned.

 

CALL FOR PA= RTICIPANTS

 

=    People involved in I= BIS model development, EDA tool development and

   di= gital circuit design are invited to participate in the Summit

&= nbsp;  meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the

   information below:

 

&= nbsp;    Name:

=      E-mail a= ddress:

 

     Company:

     Top-level Web Link:

&nb= sp;

     Country:

 =

 

  &nb= sp;  Bob ROSS, Teraspeed Consulting Group    bob@terasp= eed.com

     Atsushi ISHIKAWA, JEITA EC Cen= ter       a-ishikawa@jeita.or.jp

=  

   SIGNUP DEADLINE: Novembe 15, 2013

     Advance registration is requ= ested for refreshments planning.

 

 =

CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS

 

   = We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS

&nb= sp;  experiences or issues.  Presentations from Asia are encourag= ed/

 

   Presentation Format: &= nbsp; LCD Projection from meeting laptop computer

   = Time:           &nbs= p;      15-30 Minutes including questions

   Electronic Archival:   All presentations will up= loaded to our public

       =             &nb= sp;      IBIS Summit archives

 &n= bsp; Electronic Format:     Microsoft PowerPoint or Ado= be PDF

   Presentation Copies:   Available = at the meeting for all attendees

 

  &nbs= p;PRESENTATION DEADLINE: November 4, 2013 to produce meeting copies

 

   If you plan a presentation, please ADD= to the above registration

   information:=

     Title of Presentation:

 

     Estimated Time:

 

   We will notify you of acceptance and may foll= ow up with questions

   when we form the program agen= da.

 

   Note: Vendor promotional or= business information is prohibited.

   We review all= submitted presentations and may request modifications.

&n= bsp;

   Submissions from Asia are encouraged.

=  

AGENDA (Tentative)

 <= /p>

 =   13:00    Sign in Asian IBIS Summit (Yokohama)

   13:30    Presentations

 &= nbsp; 15:30    Refreshments

   15:45&n= bsp;   Presentations

   18:00  &n= bsp; End of Meeting

 

   The specifi= c agenda is being developed.

<= span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'> 

 

LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS AND TRAVEL RULES

 

&= nbsp;  Hotels at and near the Pacifico Yokohama can be found through

   internet searches.

 

-= - ----------------------------------------------------------------=