From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org (ibis-users) To: ibis-users-digest@eda.org Subject: ibis-users V1 #221 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Errors-To: owner-ibis-users@eda.org Precedence: bulk ibis-users Wednesday, September 4 2013 Volume 01 : Number 221 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 16:12:54 +0000 From: "Muranyi, Arpad" Subject: {Spam?} [IBIS-Users] RE: Simulator interpretation of ibis data - --_004_EB55FD6CF8C21444BE032D68DDA5FB998BA77767NAMBX02mgcmento_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EB55FD6CF8C21444BE032D68DDA5FB998BA77767NAMBX02mgcmento_" - --_000_EB55FD6CF8C21444BE032D68DDA5FB998BA77767NAMBX02mgcmento_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shravanthi, I am not sure how to answer your question because I don't understand what you mean by "unequal data". Please explain what you mean by that. Regarding what you call "overshoot", first you have to understand what that is caused by in the real device. Consider a pulldown transistor as the output driver, connected to GND. In this configuration it works as an inverter, meaning that its controlling gate voltage has to go up when the output voltage goes down. But the channel of the transistor will only turn on after the gate voltage goes past the Vth (threshold voltage). Before that the channel is pretty much turned off, or it is in a high impedance state. During this time, the upwards moving gate voltage is coupled to the output through the parasitic capacitances inside the transistor. So before the output voltage starts coming down, it goes up a little bit due to the waveform on its gate coupling to the output. This is a real effect and you should not eliminate it from the IBIS model's waveforms. To answer your question on how these waveforms are used in the tools, you might want to look at pg. 4-9 in this presentation: http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jun03b/muranyi1.pdf This explains how the V-t tables (waveforms) are converted to a scaling coefficient to scale the I-V curves with respect to time as the buffer is switching high to low or low to high. I hope this answers most of your questions... Thanks, Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users@eda.org] On Behalf = Of Shravanthi Ippagunta Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 7:59 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [IBIS-Users] Simulator interpretation of ibis data Hi, I would like to understand how the two tables for Rising/Falling waveforms(= RW/FW) (Terminated to GND and Terminated to VCCO/VTT) in an ibis file are = interpreted by a simulator while plotting the output of an IO buffer (if th= e input is a pulse). I am doing the ibis modeling here at Xilinx and there was a request to remo= ve redundant data from the RW/FW to get a better "EYE". In the edit process= , unequal data was removed from the two tables - FW to GND and FW to VTT - = due to which, in my simulation, there was an overshoot/undershoot in the wa= veform (below is a snapshot). I would like to know how the unequal data edi= ts translate into the bump seen. [cid:image012.jpg@01CE9FEC.AD704F40] Thanks, Shravanthi This email and any attachments are intended for the sole use of the named r= ecipient(s) and contain(s) confidential information that may be proprietary= , privileged or copyrighted under applicable law. If you are not the intend= ed recipient, do not read, copy, or forward this email message or any attac= hments. Delete this email message and any attachments immediately. - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_EB55FD6CF8C21444BE032D68DDA5FB998BA77767NAMBX02mgcmento_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Shravanthi,

 

I am not sure how to answer your question beca= use I don’t

understand what you mean by “uneq= ual data”.  Please explain

what you mean by that.

 

Regarding what you call “overshoot”= ;, first you have to

understand what that is caused by in the real = device.

 

Consider a pulldown transistor as the output d= river, connected

to GND.  In this configuration it works a= s an inverter, meaning

that its controlling gate voltage has to go up= when the output

voltage goes down.  But the channel of th= e transistor will only

turn on after the gate voltage goes past the V= th (threshold

voltage).  Before that the channel is pre= tty much turned off,

or it is in a high impedance state.  Duri= ng this time, the

upwards moving gate voltage is coupled to the = output through

the parasitic capacitances inside the transist= or.  So before

the output voltage starts coming down, it goes= up a little bit

due to the waveform on its gate coupling to th= e output.  This

is a real effect and you should not eliminate = it from the IBIS

model’s waveforms.

 

To answer your question on how these waveforms= are used in the

tools, you might want to look at pg. 4-9 in th= is presentation:

 

http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jun03b/muranyi1.pdf

 

This explains how the V-t tables (waveforms) a= re converted to

a scaling coefficient to scale the I-V curves = with respect to

time as the buffer is switching high to low or= low to high.

 

I hope this answers most of your questionsR= 30;

 

Thanks,

 

Arpad

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

 

From: owner-ibis-users@eda.org [mailto:owner-ibis-users= @eda.org] On Behalf Of Shravanthi Ippagunta
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 7:59 AM
To: ibis-users@eda.org
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Simulator interpretation of ibis data

 

Hi,

 

I would like to understand how the two tables for Ri= sing/Falling waveforms(RW/FW)  (Terminated to GND and Terminated to VC= CO/VTT) in an ibis file are interpreted by a simulator while plotting the o= utput of an IO buffer (if the input is a pulse).

 

I am doing the ibis modeling here at Xilinx and ther= e was a request to remove redundant data from the RW/FW to get a better = 220;EYE”. In the edit process, unequal data was removed from the two = tables – FW to GND and FW to VTT – due to which, in my simulation, there was an overshoot/undershoot in the waveform (below= is a snapshot). I would like to know how the unequal data edits translate = into the bump seen.

3D"cid:ima=

 

 

Thanks,

Shravanthi

 <= /o:p>



This email and any attachments are intended for the sole use of the named r= ecipient(s) and contain(s) confidential information that may be proprietary= , privileged or copyrighted under applicable law. If you are not the intend= ed recipient, do not read, copy, or forward this email message or any attachments. Delete this email messag= e and any attachments immediately.



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2013 13:46:31 +0800 From: Ling Li Ong Subject: [IBIS-Users] Role of C_comp - --_000_37BAE8793D8170468245974FF0CB2E0C70961F9C68PGITMSG03alte_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I saw some discussions on c_comp issue at user archive at link: http://www.eda.org/ibis/users_archive/0487.html I am confused by the c_comp whether it is double-counted and the different = result obtained when using different tools. According to the comment in the link above, varying the c_comp may see the = changes in rise/fall curve. This is definitely true when using the HSPICE = simulator. But, if you using the latest Hyperlynx version 8.2.1, changing= the c_comp will not reflect the changes in rise/fall curve. Can you please advise which tools are showing the correct response on c_com= p when sweeping at different value? Thanks. Regards, Ling Li ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice. This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have = received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, a= nd delete the message and any attachments. Thank you. - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_37BAE8793D8170468245974FF0CB2E0C70961F9C68PGITMSG03alte_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I saw some discussions on c_comp issue at user archi= ve at link:

http://www.eda.org/ibis/users_archive/0487.html

 

I am confused by the c_comp whether it is double-cou= nted and the different result obtained when using different tools.

According to the comment in the link above, varying = the c_comp may see the changes in rise/fall curve.  This is definitely= true when using the HSPICE simulator.  But, if you using the latest H= yperlynx  version 8.2.1, changing the c_comp will not reflect the changes in rise/fall curve. 

 

Can you please advise which tools are showing the co= rrect response on c_comp when sweeping at different value?

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Ling Li

 

 

 

 

 


Confidentiality Notice.
This message may contain information that is confidential or otherwise prot= ected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereb= y notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copyin= g of this message, or any attachments, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please= advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message and any attachme= nts. Thank you.
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. - --_000_37BAE8793D8170468245974FF0CB2E0C70961F9C68PGITMSG03alte_-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail mikelabonte@eda-stds.org |or ibis-request@eda-stds.org | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 07:09:19 +0000 From: Girija V Chougala Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS query - --_000_ADEE03EA54ABAB499228A275B08F9A991818EB38S04MBX0103s04lo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Please guide me in the following query which I got from one of my customer, Question: How i can assign a tri state model? I need to simulate a local bu= s data line in which ibis model is a member which need to be tri stated. Please let me know what need to be done and what is he asking. I appreciate quick response. Regards, Girija This message and any attachments may contain Cypress (or its subsidiaries) = confidential information. If it has been received in error, please advise t= he sender and immediately delete this message. - --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - --_000_ADEE03EA54ABAB499228A275B08F9A991818EB38S04MBX0103s04lo_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Please guide me in the following query which I got f= rom one of my customer,

Question: How i can assign a tri state model? I n= eed to simulate a local bus data line in which ibis model is a member which= need to be tri stated.

 

Please let me know what need to be done and what is = he asking.

I appreciate quick response.

 

Regards,

Girija

This message and any attachments may contain Cypress (or its subsidiaries) = confidential information. If it has been received in error, please advise t= he sender and immediately delete this message.
--=20
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean. - --_000_ADEE03EA54ABAB499228A275B08F9A991818EB38S04MBX0103s04lo_-- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- |For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, e-mail mikelabonte@eda-stds.org |or ibis-request@eda-stds.org | |IBIS reflector archives exist under: | | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/users_archive/ Recent | http://www.eda-stds.org/ibis/email/ E-mail since 1993 ------------------------------ End of ibis-users V1 #221 *************************